Unless they’re almost certain that God doesn’t existSuppose that you think there is a 5% chance that you have a powerful benefactor who can move heaven and Earth on your behalf. You can send out letters which he will read if he exists. It seems worth doing this sometimes. Sure, probably nobody is listening, but if someone is, the action has very great value.Likewise, suppose you are an atheist. You think God probably doesn’t exist. Nonetheless, being open-minded, you think there’s some chance God exists, maybe 5%, maybe 1%. On similar grounds, it seems to make sense to pray. If there is a God, this action could have very great value. If there isn’t a God, then the action is at worst a waste of a minute every day, with the upside of various psychological benefits. Each day, before going to sleep, I say a prayer in my head along the lines of “God, guide me towards doing what’s good and, insofar as it is conducive to pursuing the good, knowing what’s true.” I also sometimes pray for the welfare of specific people, as well as for various things to be made better in the world, e.g. I sometimes pray for the shrimp, conditional on them being moral patients. My sense is that the psychological literature is pretty clear that wishing people well improves your welfare and makes you more empathetic. Thinking hard about the importance of another person’s welfare is a good idea, even if there is no God.
>>43013246And if there is a God, your actions might have various desirable effects. God, on standard views, hears our prayers, and sometimes his plans are different because of our prayers than they would have otherwise been. Even short of a direct miracle, God might, in his providence, order things towards bringing about the results of our prayers. At the very least, I don’t think this kind of thing is extremely unlikely if God exists, so it’s still a pretty good bet.If God exists, prayer also has various other psychological benefits, other than simply increasing the probability of good things happening in the world. It helps bring you closer to God by communicating with him directly. While you shouldn’t expect to hear back, my guess is that attempting to communicate with God improves the quality of your relationship with God.Here’s another intuition pump for praying: lots of atheists pray when they’re in life-threatening situations that they can do nothing about. For example, as a plane is going down, you might pray that the passengers don’t all die. This seems rational. But there’s a lot of stuff happening in the world that is of very great significance yet that relatively few people are praying about. So it seems like if it’s rational to pray when a plane is going down, it’s rational to pray that AI doesn’t cause human extinction, that we keep making progress against malaria and tuberculosis, and for the shrimp.One objection to the efficacy of prayer: God already has a perfect plan for the world. Either what you’re praying for is consistent with it, in which case prayer is useless, or it’s inconsistent, in which case it’s also useless—God’s not going to change his perfect plan for you. But this is a general objection to doing anything. One could similarly argue that doctors shouldn’t try to cure people of cancer either them having treatment is part of God’s ideal plan or it’s not. In either case, treating them is useless
>>43013251The error, as C.S. Lewis noted, is in the assumption that God’s plan can’t be sensitive to what we do. It may be that God wants us to make a difference to one another’s lives, so the world is set up to be such that what happens in the world depends on what we do. Prayer may then make a difference.And, as described before, even if prayer doesn’t make a difference to what happens in the world, it might be valuable nonetheless. It might make us closer to God and to one another. Prayer shouldn’t be thought of as only about asking God for stuff.This case gets weaker if you are extremely confident that there’s no God. But probably you shouldn’t be that confident. A lot of smart people disagree with you. In general, when smart people have thought hard about a question and disagree with you in droves, you shouldn’t be ridiculously confident that you’re right and they’re wrong. If we all followed this advice, on average, we’d have much more accurate beliefs.I don’t think it makes sense for this to be a lengthy and protracted ordeal if you’re an atheist. But it seems like every day for maybe a minute, you should pray to God so that you can know, love, and serve him, if he really exists.
>>43013246But he also disgusted by you and allows devil to rule this world when he could not to
>>43013259not all theists are Christians
I don't believe anything lasts forever. Hell doesn't make any sense. A quick blip of a life and you're punished eternally? Though, just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it couldn't be so. If you're capable of enforcing such punishment then I guess there's no stopping you. The mindlessness of such malevolence is somehow funny. Imagine you enter a waiting room after you die and you get tossed in hell to be BBQ'd because you have faggy knees.
>>43013246The problem with simple prayer is that they won't get into heaven or be forgiven but only be pushed to God to which they refuse to accept.Faith and Works are needed which includes actively spreading the religion and working towards a sinless life even though you sin throughout the way.Simply praying for forgiveness on your deathbed when you can't to the works has a low chance of actually getting into heaven
>>43013251so, just more fear-mongering?
>>43013885"fear mongering is when you offer somebody something but they have to do their part in order to get it and others remind you of what you have to do in order to get it"
>pascal wager
no one gives a fuck. mods please create a christcuck containment board for all their jesus shit spam so we can clean this board up and get back to actual paranormal discussion.
>>43013246A god being real does not logically dictate that prayer is important.
>>43014291it does when he says it does
>>43013246What use is there for an atheist to pray if they don't care about truth? First they must seek truth. Truth is something one is prepared to deal with, because it can be against their corrupted worldly views. They are atheist, because they are ignorant. It's ultimately their choice, but jumping head-first into prayer seems to me like handing them a silver platter full of blasphemy. Just imagine a Redditor praying.
>>43015377Accusing atheists of being too prideful is not a good argument. It’s no better than trying to debunk moral anti realism by accusing moral anti realists of being psychopaths or liars.
>>43015390Prideful? I'm calling them lazy.
>>43015390And mentally weak. It's easy to dismiss everything spiritually. Even satanists are more respectable than atheists. Freemasons, for example, think they're the lowest of all. They're like people who can't swim, because they don't step into the water.
>>43013246>If there is a God, this action could have very great value. If there isn’t a God, then the action is at worst a waste of a minute every day, with the upside of various psychological benefits.What if you pray to the wrong person, thinking they are god, and that pisses the real god off?You DO know you should pray...to Allah, right?
>>43013246hey anonwhen atheists don't prayno matter what you shit post on 4chanare you going to be okay with thatI mean it looks like you put at least 5 mins into that pic of yoursand for your generation that's a long time isn't it?
>>43013246If Christians are right, there's Heaven If Christians are wrong, there's nothing If Atheists are right, there's nothing If Atheists are wrong, there's fireWanna gamble?
God clearly exists if you're actually looking for objective truth rather than self delusion. YHWH's name is imprinted on our DNA in the genetic sequence in gematria. The Noah's Ark dig site has once again been confirmed as authentic. Physics proves you cannot get something from nothing.
>>43015700if christians are righttheir so called "god"allows a lot of shit I not okay with myselfif christians are wrongtheir god is fakeand doesn't have my permission to existthe way real god(s) dono matterhow old they arewho never leftdoesn't matterwho no longer believed in themand made upsome fake godthey liked betterthe old oneskind'arude to be honest*shrugs*
>>43015712Yea? You know better than God? It always comes down to a weak moral argument with you goofballs. What's better, a short life with some instructive suffering and hard lessons or an eternity of love and free will? Even if God wasn't Love and Truth, He made us, He makes the rules. I'm showing my appreciation, plus He is infinitely amazing and shown me wonders beyond comprehension. If God respects your free will and leaves you alone you do not want to see a world where you are left to your own devices without love
>>43015738false one'ssurewhy notthey're just figments of the imagintions of folks who made the wrong "damn life choices" when putthing their faith in a "god" of some kindthat's easy enoughreal one'snot so muchI'm powerless agasint themas they don't seemto give a shitwhat I doyet...but if I get rid of all the false godsfor themmaybe they'll pay attenionwhat do you thinkdoesn't matter who is reading thisthere's more then one of you reading it btwI'm awarethat goes for you reading from archivesI'm including you tooinmy wordsthe wayrealitylet's meI just had to figure out howon my ownWithout your helphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfJhMfOPWdE
