>>43157822
>I can't refute their points
>...
>THEY must be the problem

>>43157822
domain / frame hygiene usually

>>43157829
classic "fallacy fallacy"

>>43157829
I cant refute them because most of the time theyre too retarded to contemplate the idea of a civilization that exists to make people's lives comfortable lol

>>43157822
even infinity has no eminent domain

another way of saying this is "use your adult words" or "slow down buckaroo"

>>43157839
>toilets exists
>therefore human beings colluding together to acquire wealth via nefarious means is impossible
Motherfuckers out there will kill you for your wallet but nah, billionaires? Nah man.
Just give up and go live in a retirement home and watch fox news all day, spiritual boomer.

>>43157860
>impossible
OK so let us rephrase OP's question

is colluding together to acquire wealth via nefarious means proven?

>>43157860
evil people exist no doubt, corruption is one thing, but then there are the people who are like
>theyre hiding the flat earth from you because the powers that be are just so unbelievably evil that they lie just to demoralize you

>>43157867
>I need the accused criminals to personally admit to their own crimes and write a Wikipedia article about it before I believe it

>>43157881
>I need to follow Jesus' words about slander and derision and speaking what is true

and let me stop you before you say I'm defending anyone

OP is basically saying that fringe conspiracies impose a visceral tax on everyone around them because what is relatively close to home to them requires a decent, well-traveled person to feel like they completely dissociate
that is cromulent and it is better to label the signal and manage it than assign identities

>>43157867
Im not talking about that kinda conspiracy I mean the grand ones like flat earth, or vaccines cause autism

>>43157894
exactly I was just waiting for them to jump out of their chair and reference the proof, to which I would ask
>what about flat earth, or vaccines cause autism, etc?

>>43157898
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEDMYdAwJtY
You've got eyes of your own, don't you? Why are sitting around sucking your thumb waiting for big daddy government to prove things for you? Put on your big boy pants and go prove it yourself. If flat earth is so obviously wrong then it should be trivially easy to debunk it. Go ahead and challenge any one of the prominent flat earthers to a video debate. They will accept anyone.

>>43157912
why would they lie about it
you literally post this from, presumably a pc, with rare earth materials from all over the globe, technology that didnt exist 100 years ago
>they want to demorlize you
If I were evil emperor of Earth, I wouldnt lie about the shape of the Earth, Id take away your internet and computers, force you to live in a collectivist farm and stuff

>>43157822
some options:
- call them controlled opposition conspiretards
- point and laugh
- natural selection. let them die. they'll never amount to anything.
- herd them like the cattle they are. aura farm. become the evil dark wizard they think you are.
there's more but you get the point. no point engaging with them except for extracting loosh. they're free dispensers.

>>43157912
OK fine
the actual fastest way to debunk them is to build up your negotiation literacy and hygiene until you can detect moving the goalposts, hijacking the frame, smuggling standing, and disrespecting rhetorical jurisidiction

let's start here
first of all, the conversation and challenge is asymmetrical
I'm not allowed to ask for proof established logistical receipts are wrong on my side but I have to provide evidence a theory is untrue rhetorically rather than being able to attack its empirical proof

so let's just stop there, and I'll wait until you put on your big boy pants or some shit

>>43157822
>the powers that be are all evil
is that wrong?

>>43157912
>If flat earth is so obviously wrong then it should be trivially easy to debunk it.
But it is trivially easy to debunk, even with basic observations, which has been done multiple times. It's just that flattards are intellectually dishonest and shift goalposts each time. The final line of defense being:
>you don understan, there is le non-equilidian quantum entanglement happening, what you see is an illusion to make you believe that the earh isn't flat, because... muh jesus or muh antijesus or sumthn
Which is ironic coming from people, whose entire premise initially is:
>gravity and space are too complicated, which means they're lies, cos true and real things should be easy

>>43157937
>glowies hiring jeets using ai
Ugh.

>>43157822
We can tell you how to argue against them if you dont present what their argument is

If they have no argument then simply dismiss them

You give me tranny vibes btw, hopefully I'm wrong

>>43157958
Can't* tell you

I hate when a typo changes the whole meaning of a post

>>43157954
>But it is trivially easy to debunk, even with basic observations, which has been done multiple times.
Impressive! Care to repeat the feat? Go ahead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEDMYdAwJtY

>>43157953
The Spanish used to import thousands of Africans to the Caribbean and work them to death, what for?
For their sugar plantations they sacrificed so many lives just so some Spanish peasant to have cheap sugar
Today america destroys culture in the middle east and rapes women, and what for? for cheap gas
Like yes the powers that be are evil, but not 1984 evil, they are Babylonian evil, they rape and pillage foreign lands just so that you can play roblox on your ipad and eat hot pockets

>>43157956
let's back up
this thread is a classic example of why OP is having a problem itself
>asks how to defeat fringe conspiracies
>swarmed by flat earth shills
>dissect the shills for what they're really saying
>get attacked for being a glowie

is not this the exact problem OP was having that /x/ has been bitching about for years? Thanks for the self-aware glowie meme though, I guess

I can't wait for them to invent a new capstone buzzword for what happens when the glowie card doesn't work to defend flat earthers

>>43158011
He asked how to defeated conspiracy theorists and he got the exactly correct answer. Debunk them with proof. If he is unable to do that, that's his problem, not the conspiracy theorists.

>>43157964
Why hasn't a single flattard observed the French coast from the shores of New York with a simple telescope yet? If the Earth is flat, it should be perfectly doable and easy enough - without resorting to lasers and other such shit. Yet somehow no one ever did.
Nor is there a single working model of the way sunrise and sunset is supposed to work in a flat earth scenario, that doesn't break our actual real-life observations (as in: we clearly observe the sun disk going below or above the horizon, and no it wouldn't happen if it was just "getting farther" as some flattards claim).
>Care to repeat the feat?
Btw I remember a similar experiment was done over one of the Great Lakes and there was in fact elevation recorded. To which the flattards conducting the experiment said "they must've tampered with out equipment".
It's like arguing with religious fanatics, really. Intellectually insulting, and that's why most ppl avoid it.
Imagine a guy knocks on your door and says: >hey, you see this lawn of yours? well let me tell you it's not green, it's actually red. you were just psyopped into believing it's green. if you look at it through these red glasses, you'll see that it's actually red!
Most people would just shut the door.

>>43158021
conspiracy theories are not correct until proven otherwise
let's unpack that first
so you want
>prove the earth isn't flat
like you said?

>>43158027
>Btw I remember a similar experiment was done over one of the Great Lakes
I'm not talking about some vague "similar experiment". I'm talking about the one in this video. The recorded elevation is 5 feet. That leaves over 200 feet of horizon curvature dropoff to explain. Why can I see something that should be hidden behind 200 feet of curve?
>French coast to New York
The atmosphere is made up of water droplets and other microscopic particles. At great distances they block vision.
https://rumble.com/v6ssx7l-jun-22-2017-how-far-could-we-see-if-there-was-no-air-flat-earth-updated.html
Here's a recorded distance of 700 miles. Is that good enough?
https://rumble.com/v2syjhe-flat-earth-700-miles-long-distance-photography.html

guys this is great but I'm pretty sure OP just wanted something that works against anti-vaxxers that people usually don't try instantly that works

>>43158145
Democide was the leading cause of unnatural death in the 20th century. That fact alone should make you at least raise an eyebrow whenever you hear the words 'government' and 'needle'.

>>43158203
right but do you see where this fails? Raising an eyebrow doesn't mean I'm going to become an antivaxxer

secondly, OP is already 100% past the resulting conversation and didn't ask for your opinion on the relationship between democide and needles

you're saying focusing on the "how" just means using "actual facts" but that's wildly disingenuous to a setting that has as good conspiracy literacy as /x/

>>43158118
Neither of the two videos load for me.
Why no comment about the sunset and the working model questions btw?

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>>43158378
forgot pic related

>>43157822
>Online interaction feeds internal simulation
>Internal simulation shapes emotional state
>Emotional state shapes perception
>Perception filters future input
>Loop
First understand the mechanics by which it happens. The longer one consumes content without the ability or the nature to challenge themselves or contemplate deeply and sit with their own contradictions and dishonesty the more obvious their claimed truth becomes. This informs the ego and makes them think they have special knowledge and can separate themselves from the herd. It's just another angle of the same loop. Once you see their loops then you can see how much they mirror the things they oppose in opposition. They effectively become controlled by the things they oppose in their minds and behavior. You can embark on dismantling their reality which they'll not even acknowledge or just ignore them. They can only break free if and when they choose.

>>43158397
>conspiracy theorists are just trying to be special boys with secret knowledge
>that's why they give away their information freely to hundreds of millions of people

>>43158378
If you don't know how the sun works nor what the flat earth model actually is - this is flat earth 101 - you have done absolutely zero research on the subject and you are not a serious person.

>>43158449
Feels good doesn't it? Being against the system and in the know and all. Even if most of the supposed evidence comes from the thing they stare at all day. They're trapped in the cave and can't even conceptualize they're in a cave.

>>43158463
>I know better than the conspiracy theorists AND the mainstream
Special boy!

>>43158449
>>43158481
the point is to fight the breakdown of conversation with "real facts", retard

>>43158458
So, no answer then. Like, again: you people claim that truth has to be simple. Yet when faced with the objective lack of evidence, you start wiggling, gaslighting, vagueposting, throwing ad hominems and asspulling quantum entanglement-like "reasonings". Where is the vaunted simplicity here?
You claim you want to spread your "truth", yet when someone asks for a clear and verifiable explanation you backpedal into "i ain't spoonfeeding you, do your research".
Yes, I've seen the dishonest videos about the supposed illusion of the sun disk appearing to go under the horizon due to it going far away. And no, that's not how basic optics work. If the sun was circling above the flat earth, there would be no night-time anywhere ever, and if it was going under the flat earth, timezones wouldn't exist.
And no, you do not have a working model of the flat earth that doesn't contradict basic observation. If you had, you would be spamming it everywhere. The only "explanation" I've sen, like i said, is the claim that there is some non-euclidean illusion going on in the sky for whatever reason "trust me bro".

>>43158501
Cool story bro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEDMYdAwJtY
Why can I see something that a laser that should be below 200ft of curve? No wiggling. No gaslighting. No vagueposting. No ad homosexuals. No quantum asspulls. Just asking for an answer to a question that was asked 3 hours ago.

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>>43158660
inb4 "demonic satanic AI reeeee"

>>43158798
lol
LMAO
>it does not calculate the bulge blocking
>bulge
>blocking
What bulge? Did you see a bulge? I didn't see any bulge. Nothing is being "blocked". The two observers can see each other. Absolute fail.
>refraction
Ah, coincidence theorists - every time a test is done, refraction magically appears in the exactly necessary amount to bend the light / laser in the exact same rate as earth curve. Not more, not less. Only in this rare Black Swan event assuming k=15 which is extreme already, would move the geometric horizon from 1.22m to 4.88m, which is way short of the observed one at 10-15 miles. Also so close to the ground there are no multiple layers of atmosphere to cross from one to the other to cause refraction like the one claimed for the sun / stars. So no, refraction does not cut it at all.
https://rumble.com/search/all?q=Refraction
Refraction works perfectly on a flat earth.
https://rumble.com/v4d3c3q-light-refraction-validates-the-flat-earth-model..html
Too bad your Indian 90s potato computer can't play rumble, but no matter. None of this is for you, glowie.
Oh, and in case anyone wants to keep whining about models, which would be the very first thing an even slightly curious person would look up; https://adl.place/shanes-fe-model

Alright you silly billies, that's all you're getting. I've got to go to beddy byes now so I can be nice and rested for Monday's workout. Peeeas.

>>43158868
>Did you see a bulge? I didn't see any bulge.
I didn't see anything at all in that 1 minute "trust us, we calculated everything correctly" piece of cultist propaganda. Do and fully record a proper experiment with independent observers and transparent calculations and then there might be some discussion. No one has obligation to trust your honesty.
>https://adl.place/shanes-fe-model
LMAO indeed, as expected
>gravity and space are too complicated and therefore untrue
>btw our vision is ackshually non-euclidean therefore you cannot trust what you see
>muh personal celestial spheres
This is why people avoid engaging with you. Again, refer to the grass allegory from before.

>>43158868
seething and rhetorical attacks aren't the answer, you need vacuum conditions and refraction conditions together, idiot
otherwise you can just say the refraction was already there and they chose the spot because they had them