What are the primary differences between Japanese and Okinawan karate?
Basically Japan took karate and removed everything that made it effective and useful, but then it reverse populated back into Okinawa and they started copying all the gay shit the japanese were doing like spinny kicks and punching the airSo at this point no difference really
>>248358Well fuck. There's a Goju Ryu place nearby that's run by some students of Masaji Taira. Seemed like a good place.
>>248360Give it a try, you might like it
>>248361I may. I dunno if it's all stripped down shit.
>>248343Japanese karate got recontextualized to be a long range striking system due to taking competition ruleset from kendo where they obviously stand at very long range with the shinai and overextend as fast as possible to smack the other first, since a strike with even a shinai would be fatal they only need one point ippon, so when karate got to Japan, gichin funakoshi first simplified it to allow a wider group of students to grasp it more easily.Then when karate competitions started, they took inspiration from kendo making karate a long range striking system.Okinawan karate, even shotokan as gichin envisioned it, is a close range style with minimal footwork where the striking is based on timing where you catch the opponent coming in and most moves in kata are stand up grappling techniques.When it become long range in japan, even the kata moves where recontextualized to be defenses for strikes that make absolutely 0 sense because those moves are meant to be close range grappling moves.That said i would still dare to say Japanese karate is still better because they atleast do some sparring and is excellent to get into counter striking.Okinawan karate hardly does sparring but is great to understand the actual purpose of kata which is grappling techniques.
>>248358Yes, among other things they added to karate such an ineffective technique as the roundhouse kick. Without modern kicking techniques, karate would be nothing more than poor bare-knuckle boxing.
>>251595There is no circumstance where you will ever need to kick someone in the head
>>251632You can throw a roundhouse kick at targets other than head level too. The roundhouse kick wasn’t part of traditional Okinawan karate, and it doesn’t show up in any kata.
>>251634The roundhouse is a weird mid range kick you invest in to wear an opponent down over timeThat doesn't align with karate ideals of acting decisively and winning as quickly as possibleYou have to totally change karate to accommodate that one technique which honestly doesn't bring anything to the party
Japanese/point karate is still better than Okinawan karate because while okinawan karate goes in depth into kata and actually teaches what the moves are supposed to be, it almost exclusively trains in kata which is useless for fighting, japanese karate, even if its point karate atleast has sparring to develop the timing and distance management necessary to be able to fight.Modern okinawan karate does sparring sometimes but it looks the same as any other japanese karate style without the secret kata stuff so all the "useful" stuff the japanese removed is still useless because if you don't use it in sparring against someone trying to rearrange your face, you simply can't use it in a fight no matter how useful or effective the technique is supposed to be.Even the most efficient jab in boxing is useless if you only ever do shadowboxing and never spar.So all the gay shit the japanese added is still more useful because its regularly used in sparring.
>>248343Japanese karate has less larping, I mean less bunkai or "practical" application of kata.Japanese - kata is basically formalized as a dance, but they do it anywayOkinawa - they still pretend kata is useful
>>251050also kendo used to have grappling, leg sweeps, take-downs..it was more like HEMA I guess? in pre-WW2 era
what about "pre-karate" Okinawan Te, Kobudo, and other "primitive" forms? are they worth learning, or just historical curiosites?>pic is Siam Island boxing, supposedly direct ancestor of Te
>>254680That just doesn't exist.
>>251696The rhythm element
Saw a bunch if really not helpful answers so ill put my input in as someone who has studied the origins and practices traditional okinawan karate and learned from someone who learned in okinawa. Japanese karate comes from okinawa so its really not much different. The main differences are that Japanese people are like your typical strict military asians but okinawans are like your redneck farmers and are way more relaxed. This reflects in their styles where okinawans understand that one movement in a kata can have many applications so they don't care if people do the kata as differently as long as they are doing it in a way that makes sense in the application. Okinawans train with physical conditioning and sparring without pads. Japanese are more strict in conforming peoples kata and certain things like if you're late to class you have to wait outside. But they also conform karate to military use and standardization. Many aspects are present in both because most of the karate students in okinawa in 1950-1999 were US marines stationed in okinawa so military tradition are baked into modern okinawan style such as lining up in order to rank and such. I dont have that many insights into Japanese karate but if i had to guess i would assume point type fighting would be a japanese invention as i know okinawans have a strong man tournament that is full contact.
Okinawan karate is 9 times out of 10 a marketing gimmick and to appeal to Americans who are still upset about Pearl Harbour.
>>251050Kendo has more in common with Judo. Though you do make some interesting points. Really J-Karate long-range was a result of a J-Karate master being influenced by French military advisors doing Savate, a type of foot-fencing martial art with an emphasis on kicks.O-Karate is mainly a mix of different Chinese Fujian kungfu styles mainly Incense Shop boxing and White Crane style.>>265572J-Karate being adopted as a university club, meant that katas and exercises had to make sense in a large group setting.O-Karate dojos were smaller and had more 1-on-1 training.See: Jesse Enkamp's extensive research and videos on this
>>248343Okinawan karate is a stand up grappling style with strikes at mid and close range.The stances are tall like in muay thai and 90% of the moves in kata are grappling techniques.Japanese karate has become a sport prioritizing long range strikes.Gichin funakoshi brought shotokan to mainland japan and he modified Okinawan karate to be simpler in order to be able to teach it to a large number of people at once.Then his 3rd son studied in tokyo university where he come in contact with kendo, inspired by it he made karate competition and adopted the long range approach of kendo making the stances longer and deeper to be able to strike from long range.On one hand this made karate fighters become amazing at long range, counter punching and become fast as fuck but on the other it recontextualized karate into becoming exclusively long range strikes when it originally was meant to be in your face style and have grappling.This completely ruined kata as no move in kata makes any sense as a long range strike because they were short range grappling techniques.Then there's full contact karate which funny enough did inherit the tall stance of original karate and has the mythical toughness of all karate masters.
>>266089Yeah this is true, okinawan karate originally had no kicks above the belt but the Japanese influenced it and most traditional masters teach high kick techniques even though they aren't technically how you're supposed to do them in katas.If you watch enkamps isshinryu video with uechi. Master uechi is my senseis sensei.>>266223I would say this is mostly true but if you look at original katas it's more like 50% grappling and the rest are close range strikes. Southern king fu comes from denser regions and is where karate cane from hence the close range
