i've been thinking about how martial arts have been losing their essence (mainly self-defense) due to monetization and shitty federations. i mean what the fuck is up with charging money for exams and belts?? i mean of course they are gonna give you the fucking belt if you pay for it, so what's the point of the system? back then, there were just black and white belts, nothing else and no charging for becoming a black belt, just raw technique and knowledge, and actual use of the art (self-defense as well).i say this as an actual practicioner of taekwondo itf and i admit it has the stupidiest ferderation system ever (there are like 8 different branches, each claiming that they teach the "original taekwondo" while not teaching throws, takedowns or submissions) as well as the dumb fucking pay-for-your-exam-and-belt shit, as if the monthly fee didn't exist. it's ridiculous and sad, and i realized this now since i've been doing boxing and judo and holy shit it's a whole different world; boxing is awesome and has no charges besides the suscription and equipment, the rest is just training and sparring; same with judo except there are exams but they are like once a year for every student, unlike other arts where there is an exam every three months for everyone.so i wanted to ask, what do you think? are martial arts getting worse due to greed? are there any exceptions (like boxing or judo in my experience)? personally, i'll keep doing taekwondo 'till the red belt, because i like it a lot and it was my first martial art, but i'm not gonna pay like 200 dollars for a black piece of cloth on ny waist.
If you go further back you start to run into masters asking for arguably even larger sums of money. Ip man's teacher supposedly required 20 taels of silver(3k~15k$) just to get your foot through the door and earn the priveledge to pay monthly fees.
>>264577that sucks, specially knowing that many kung-fu masters teached to the peasants for free due to their beliefs. wish kung-fu still had that noble spirit, now it's just a scam synonym
>>264579That's like a wuxia novel narrative that was used to scam those peasants into charging to their deaths for various cults/warlords/organized crime
>>264585oh
>>264576Boxing is a martial art too. Martial arts have always been this way, everyone has always claimed that their style was the best and tried to profit off of it. This has caused splintering throughout history. Look at how many different styles of kung fu have branched out of the Shaolin Temple alone or how many Koryu Kenjutsu schools are the result of schisms if you want historical examples. I believe boxing and judo are more of the exception than the standard, even historically. If you look around you can probably find some style that will fit your expectations, even if it isn’t initially what you were looking out for. I accepted that I wasn’t going to get what I wanted out of the local karate schools so I found an MMA gym where a couple of the striking couches had professional kickboxing records.
>>264576McDojos and money making schemes has always been a problem even during the "golden era" of martial arts in the 70s and 80s. My teacher's been training since the 70s and he remembers Taekwondo schools that rebranded to Karate schools because of the hype. Unfortunately for eastern martial arts you have to get pretty lucky to find a good teacher let alone a good school and I don't think that will change anytime soon. That being said good schools and teachers exist out there and will teach without big commercial spaces or huge classes. My school isn't perfect, but its damn well better than what other people are doing around here.
>>264593>Boxing is a martial art toosure it is, never denied it. also one of the best out there>If you look around you can probably find some style that will fit your expectationsi hope so, so far both boxing and judo have been doing it for me, but i could look around for kickboxing or something like that>I accepted that I wasn’t going to get what I wanted out of the local karate schoolshow did you do that? i mean, what was it that you didn't find in karate schools that you did find in you mma gym>>264648>don't think that will change anytime soonsadly i agree, too many greed and jerks "teaching" bullshit for money>My school isn't perfect, but its damn well better than what other people are doing around herewhat made you stay? what makes it different? i'm really curious on how a good quality dojo, dojang or gym whatever is like in other people's experiences. for me it was the lack of dumb paid exams every three months, good sparring sessions and care for each other's wellbeing (you know, not going full force on your partner and viceversa).
>>264662I tried a couple of karate schools, I tried a World Oyama place that I really like but I wasn’t going to pay $120 a month to drive an hour and a half into Atlanta to go twice a week. I liked that they had a strong emphasis on sparring and competition in full contact tournaments. I also tried a very traditional Goju Ryu place locally, I’d actually highly recommend that place to anyone who asked for advice on schools locally. They kept close ties with the organization in Okinawa and would host seminars with Okinawans a couple of times a year. The reason it wasn’t a good fit for me was the aversion to competition and the lack of pad work and bag work. When we would do sparring I never felt like I got the full experience because the closest person to me size wise was several inches shorter and 50 lbs lighter. I also learned that I don’t like doing katas at all. The only other karate place near me is a Shito Ryu place. Knowing what I do about that styles relationship with performing kata I didn’t even bother. I wanted a place that I could attend almost every day that would actually teach me to win a fight, that left boxing and MMA gyms. I’ve always been a fan of different styles of kickboxing (that’s why I tried karate) so I started researching which MMA schools had the best kickboxing programs and went to a trial class with a school whose striking coach fought in K1 and smaller Japanese promotions. I liked the way the instructor focused on the boxing combinations, the Dutch guard, and keeping forward pressure. I also like that sparring in pads is regularly scheduled and that every non sparring class is almost exclusively shadow boxing, pad work, and bag work. I still have a high level of respect for many karate styles and a few king fu styles but I feel like the classes at the MMA gym are the best thing for me to actually learn to fight.
>>264667cool! would you say that your time on those karate dojos was worth it?, i've been thinking about checking a local kyokushin dojo but i don't really like the rule about not being able to punch the head, 'cause it leads to doing very unrealistic moves imo, like rolling thunder, which would make you end up in a hospital with a broken neck if you did it out on hard floor i think>the aversion to competition and the lack of pad work and bag workdo you think those aspects are crucial for a gym's quality? i never really thought about iti feel like there's a very thin line when it comes to competition focus; on one side, there's schools fully focused on competition and toss every move that won't work in it, even if it's part of the art, and then there are schools that don't ever do even sparring and just do choreographies, though they do teach some of the traditional moves. i've tried both and they both suckkkkkkkk>I also like that sparring in pads is regularly scheduled and that every non sparring class is almost exclusively shadow boxing, pad work, and bag work.seems like a great place, i gotta ask though, why didn't you go to a kickboxing gym?>I feel like the classes at the MMA gym are the best thing for me to actually learn to fight.i'm glad you found your place, i'd like to ask as well, how has been your experience with mma? personally, i had a very shitty experience with it since most of the dudes that trained were khabib-wannabes-assholes, but maybe it was just bad luck, been looking into kudo as well, but i dunno much about it
>>264671I think the little time I had in the karate dojos was worth it. I wouldn’t mind doing Goju Ryu or Kyokushin in addition to kickboxing but I don’t have enough time or money for that.>do you think those aspects are crucial for a gym's quality? I think that if you’re taking any kind of striking class to actually learn how to win a fight then you have to have bag work, pad work, and at least sparring if not competition. >why didn't you go to a kickboxing gym?Kickboxing culture doesn’t exist in the US the same way it does in some other parts of the world, to make matters worse I’m in the southeast away from any major cities. To go to a pure kickboxing gym that taught anything close to K1 rules kickboxing I’d have to drive hours. > how has been your experience with mma?I haven’t done any of the MMA or grappling classes, just boxing and kickboxing. Everyone seems nice and welcoming. It has way more students than some of the other places I’ve tried, I don’t think any of the coaches will know my name for months. I may also start going to a local Jiu Jitsu place once a week since they have a weekly free class for cops. I’m probably going to wait until I get in better shape kickboxing before I try to learn two styles at once though. Kudo is cool, I’d try it if I had it near me.
>>264676>but I don’t have enough time or money for thati feel you, i'd be doing lots of stuff if it wasn't for that>you have to have bag work, pad work, and at least sparring if not competitionmakes sense, i'll keep those in mind when i look for another striking martial art, thanks!>Kickboxing culture doesn’t exist in the US the same way it does in some other parts of the worldwow that sucks, i thought the US would have a lot of kickboxing gyms around, considering they had the whole full contact era and all that>just boxing and kickboxingooooh i thought you were doing mma, well i'm glad you found a place to do kickboxing ^_________^>Everyone seems nice and welcominglucky you, hope it stays that way>I may also start going to a local Jiu Jitsu place once a weeki also did bjj for like a year or so, hope you like it, it also has a tendency to feature idiots but it's pretty fun otherwise, just tap early and take care of each other (something bjjtards can't do for some reason)>Kudo is cool, I’d try it if I had it near meyup, same. the only odd thing about it for me is the helmer, but i guess it's necessary if you allow headbutts
>>264662When I met my current teacher in person the first time for a tour he was teaching at this dinky little place in a plaza. Everything he was telling me was legit and wasn't anything fantastical. He does charge a down payment which can be considered a red flag but he does it to make sure that you are committed to training with him. For the two years Ive been with him Ive learned more actual fighting and karate than I have in other places in the 5 years prior. I think a good checklist to finding a good school is consistent, realistic sparring and drilling as well as the general culture and language. He's ex-military so he won't mince words about bullshit kata application and fighting techniques. It also helps that he isn't braggy about his military past but don't get him started on how they trained "back in his day".There are still slight issues I have with the school. We've had to change locations twice in the past year due to external factors which halted the flow of training. Sometimes he'll show us a drill or technique once and expect us to remember it 6 months later. That being said I'm more than satisfied with my experience there and am grateful I didn't sign up for another lackluster karate school
>>264913>He does charge a down paymentwell i gotta say i wouldn't have paid (i'm broke asf), but how much was it? and how did you know he wasn't trying to simply get money out of you?>Ive learned more actual fighting and karate than I have in other placesi'm glad you found such a great instructor, what style do you practice?>realistic sparring and drillingi'm sorry if i'm dense but what would you call "realistic sparring and drilling", do you use protections? is it full contact? do you do those self-defense drills like hapkidoins?>general culture and languagedo you mean you all use the correct japanese terms and all that? or something else?>am grateful I didn't sign up for another lackluster karate schoolhow was it like to train at those other karate schools and how did you realize they were "lackluster"?sorry if i ask a lot it's just that i'm very curious
>>264960I do Goju Ryu after trying Shorin Ryu and Kyoskushin and it feels the best for me. Originally I wanted to do Uechi Ryu but no schools near me. Good dojo culture is just making sure the school isn't drinking the kool aid and getting too into the tradition, as well as hazing and other bullshit. I've done a 180 on my thoughts about Kata and I think its important, so slow controlled drills and sparing implementing kata techniques. Then of course hard knockdown sparring to remember what its like to get hit.
