Im working on developing some games in my spare time and I’d really like to target the fidelity of ps2-ps3 style games, mostly for stylistic purposes (but also because I’m solo and don’t have the time and resources to make too many high poly things)Specifically, I’m really interested in how characters like pic related were modeled and textured to look semi-realistic and expressive (especially textures because I’m still terrible with them)Feel free to post low-poly or just your favorite models/textures from the games of the good old era of games
>>995160Dual UV sets in conjunction with camera mapping. Model your character, rig and unwrap your UV to a UV set 'UV1'. Now pose your character infront of a camera to an angle you wanna texture from.Render out your character model with a camera mapped projection UV set UV2' and use as a template to paint ontop of in your paint editor of choice.Assign the result as a texture for UV2 and bake the result down to UV1.Now change the view to cover dead angles that are still untextured or areas that has too much stretch due to the projectionand keep render new templates and repeat. Bake and combine down to your UV1 texture til you've covered your entire model.Advantage of texturing like this is that you get pixel perfect placement of all your details and the end result will look exactly as you painted it.
>not good at texturingoh no
>>995238MagicWizard shit
>>995238I'm a work in progress lol. I'm getting better at texturing but I'm pretty slow at it and it never comes out exactly as I'd likeAlso that's a sick model
>>995160Japanese fighting games from the PS2 era have beautiful character models. That is all.
>>995160So I was able to find the actual in-game model for this character. The model is pretty low poly but I'm having alittle trouble understanding it.For example, how would they get the split that happens on the front of the shirt, about where the nipples should be? Everything else around it seems to be a loop cut, which makes sense but I dont understand how they would have done that without using like the knife tool. Is this all from edge modeling or am I just an idiot?
>>995345they didnt make it split. they combined a row of edges between nipples. it gives that part a slightly crisper crease and importsntly its also a clever way to lower your poly count.
>>995345>Is this all from edge modeling or am I just an idiot?Geometry is just geometry, who knows how the modeller that built that one preferred to work but any and all methods that you can use to generate useful geometry is valid, you have a knife tool and it makes sense to use it; use it.
>>995350>>995352Thank you! I appreciate the help. I'm trying to take modeling seriously so I probably get too into the weeds and worry about random stuff I shouldn'tAgain, thanks! And sorry for the probably simple questions
>>995354>apologizing to chuds on 4chan instead of leaving the thread foreverYou are too white for this board
>>996274Change towards increased compassion gotta start somewhere, and those posts weren't delivered in any chuddy tone, they where helpful.Why is it that being anon should require one to be a dick all the time? Even if no one else know who the asshole behind some unnecessary angry post is the author know.Embrace voluntary politeness and discover the inner love for your fellow tr/3/pot beings.We can still grow the love within ourselves as tho selecting the scale-tool in our software of choicepress ctrl-i to invert select all our love instead of hatred and just crank that motherfucker skyhigh.
I wanted to ask about something a bit more complex in regards to this. I've wanted to know how to do water/river/beachfront texture work using mainly diffuse and maybe some gloss? There are plenty of examples in the PS2 library, but it seems like every dev had a slightly different way of handling it. does anyone have a general workflow for this?screenshot from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhlmYuOJa_0
>>995160>developing some games in my spare time>(but also because I’m solo and don’t have the time and resources to make too many high poly things)How feasible is this? make a 3d game with ps2 style graphics seems like a task too big for one guy.
>>995160I'm thinking sofimage xsi or the autodesk implementation of it have what you are looking for. Renders come out on the gray side, desaturated colors and such. Maybe use VMware to install W7 and either version of the program, when the trial ends you can alwaysnuke the vm and reinstall it or just clone a base vm with windows only before installingany trials.
>>998055It is *feasible*.Although if you want it to not be half-assed nor released after the Heat Death of the universe, it would probably be better to find a code monkey while you focus on modelling.PS2-style graphics are in high demand among amateurs, shouldn't be too hard to find one.
>>998073I actually recently started looking into that. I think I could do everything in modern software but I found out sofimage is how this exact model was made in the first place. Either way, it'll be interesting to see
>>998055OP here. I'm sure its highly improbable but not impossible. I'm not so delusional to think I can do everything in a reasonable time period. I'm also not looking this to be a career. Its more of a experiment for myself at the end of the day>>998080This is sort of what I was thinking as well. I can code but at this point the modeling (and drawing) is more fun for me so a code monkey is probably in the future if I really get serious about this stuff. We'll see
>>998073>>998093Why use old software? It can't make that big of a difference, does it?
>>998098OP here. For me, mostly to just look into it. I figured, at least from an educational perspective, it would help see the limitations of the era first hand, as opposed to just hearing about it. And then in doing so, it'll help me to maybe find ways to optimize my own work in the more modern software.Ultimately, I will just use blender/maya/zbrush anyway but I dont think it could hurt to spend alittle time in it.So no, ultimately it wont make a big difference, but I just think it would be interesting.
>>995238What's the secret to actually learning shit like this? There's not that many resources on Youtube compared to pretty much everything else about 3D
>>998206Well first you draw how the character looks, shocking yes for many 3D artists but it’s easier to follow your character style than remembering.Slowly build the character in the worst way possible because why not, the world isn’t going to peek. Fix the problems and you’ll be ready for rigging or material.The material needs advanced design skills, this is unavoidable. Many would give up and stay a modeling career and help the technical team. Corporate will always judge your talent on how you drew your character UV so at least know a little.Rigging is another place people would give up because of rules. It matters not what program or software you use, rigging a character takes skill to help the animation team. You kinda expected to learn python. When your done with rigging, animation should start.Animation, production, promotion, etc. that’s outside of your question so I’ll leave it as that. The only thing you can do is learn at this point.
>>998206>>998207Yeah anon likely meant how to texture it, not about the rigging and other technical stuff. I'm trying to texture low poly characters in substance painter aswell and they look like shit because I can't fucking get how they painted such realistic looks by hand onto a low poly mesh. All tutorials are for high poly, AAA PBR stuff which honestly looks easier to do than low poly. The first has higher poly characters and more details for support.
>>998263Substance won’t help, it’s not a design program, no matter what Adobe keeps saying about it. You really do need to learn how to draw, UV professionally and learn lighting.
>>996779I made this a long time ago in Unity. Animated waves. The sand is a tillable texture.There's a darker sand layer meant to represent sand underwater tooThe sea layer is an animated tillable texture and has an opacity texture near the shore so it's see through.The waves are 2 planes that scale back and forth
>>996779
>>996779Here's a video but 3dsmax fucks the transparency
>>996779That ocean effect seemed kinda mind boggling to me at first but I think it is just a pre-rendered animation. Then they used vertex colors to make it shift colors and go transparent at the beach. Then the beach foam is done like that anon said.But anyways, I think this animated ocean texture is quite effective because it omits highlights and specular lighting.
>>998143But wasn't the look of the era a product of the limitations of the consoles and not the limitations of the tools the devs used?
>>998280>>998281>>998282Hey, Thanks for these! it helps to understand things a bit better. Though, I do feel it would be better to use a texture scroll effect with a sine or something instead of bones? that's the old-head in me talking though.
Sounds like a cool project!
How would I go about texturing this in that old school PS2 style?
>>998263>>998851There’s no secret sauce to it. You just gotta unwrap your UVs, paint them in photoshop, and use your editing skills to add dirt, grime, and other details from photo sources. The only people who still use this workflow are the mega autists who manually create HD texture mods for RE4 or a Zelda game by hand.
>>998971Well that’s too god dang bad because Blender and Maya both lack the necessary tools for painting, no such plugin exists to directly paint it.
>>998994Substance cost $5000 a year and buying the Steam version is outdated with no other features. Only a matter of time until it’s useless to both Blender and Maya.
>>995160>(especially textures because I’m still terrible with them)Unfortunately for you, this style is literally all about texture artistry. So you've either got to learn to paint, learn to photobash, or both.>>999011>buying Rofl nobody pays for Substance.
>>999069Yeah I know. It forces me to get good at texturing or fail trying
>>995160I'm in the process of creating a PS2-esk looking game myself. Picrel isn't finished yet but I've got the base details down. So yeah I know he has no nipples lol. Anyway, I say -esk because the painting workflow is the same I'm just using higher res textures (512 instead of 256) but with a generally lower poly count (my faces are static for instance since). I've studied a ton of PS2 models over the years, specifically from Rockstar Games and from games like Def Jam: Fight For New York which has AMAZING looking characters.Anyway, I'm not that great at painting yet but the advice I can give is definitely use something like 3Dcoat for texturing. I've tried painting in blender with many different add-ons over the years and its never as good. You can also bake your AO really quickly in 3dcoat to use as a lighting guide before turning it off. For realistic looking clothing like the pants I've done here, you want to find a base texture for the material it's made of from an image and create a seamless texture from it to fill the clothing with. Once you've done this you create 2 layers above it. A shade layer set to Multiply and a highlight layer set to Screen. Use a base color that matches your material when painting in both, shades being more saturated and hue shifted toward blue and highlights being desaturated and shifted toward yellow/orange generally.It really fucking sucks theres pretty much zero tutorials online for painting REALISTIC textures by hand into a single texture. Almost ALL hand painting tutorials are for the World of Warcraft stylized look.
>>1000762Oh I forgot to say, use the same highlight/shade layer setup for the skin too. But then on top of it add about a 2% white/black noise layer Multiplied on top of it at about 20% opacity or so. Then over that apply a Red/Yellow/Blue "Render Clouds" texture over that set to Overlay blend mode to add randomness to the skin color. I normally flatten the shade/highlight layers down into the base color at some point then start color picking from that to add more colorful flesh tones to it. Its far from perfect but I'm still experimenting with it. I'm still hunting more tricks and ideas on making the skin look more realistic, other than just getting better at painting in general.
>>1000767Quite interesting, thank you for mentioning the "Render Clouds" texture, I was bothered by how overly basic my skin textures looked so this'll fix that a bit
>>1000797Speaking of, here's a tut video I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9g47eGdURUc
>>1000797Yeah it's pretty good trick I seen on http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutorials/character-tutorial.htmltheres a few other tricks he talks about at the bottom that I haven't used. Like a desaturation layer and such.I just ran into this book today that goes through skin painting and seems to use the same layer system I was talking about but his painting ability is way better.https://issuu.com/kukkii/docs/3dtotal.com_ltd._-_swordmaster_-_lo_5d93f13ed71d5eOn page 79+
Anyone has any examples of sixth gen era characters with long hair or long beard?I can't think of any right now and I really want to study how the hair was done
God I love 6th and 7th gen Japanese vidya models
>>995160Ps2 or heavily stylised, less realistic graphics with more modern physics/animation/movement is the best way to go
>>1001461Kimahri from FF10 is an example I can think of off the top of my head that would be the most readilyt available.I'd also suggest looking at models that have alpha fur, like monsters and such, as it's going to be the same general workflow as a thick beard or long hair. Some hair models from PSO2 also still use these methods (but don't bother with New Genesis, just the original release.)
>>995345 #Where'd you get it, could you post the link? I've been looking for it for a while now but I couldn't find it.
>>1001944This is where I got it from. The guy I think is a modder for the game. He also has other characters from the game as well:https://www.deviantart.com/xmastergeorgechiefx/art/Fiona-Belli-All-Her-Costumes-515792394
>>995161 Won't some parts of the model be hidden away from the camera pov
>>995161Sorry for double replying can somebody pls make a video for this.
>>1002045Never mind I'm a retard the last part went over my head.
I'm a beginner and absolute shit so don't listen to me, but I followed guides to making PS1 looking shit and just didn't make it crunchy. I obviously have a long way to go in all respects but in principle I feel like this looks pretty PS2. Keeping the textures low res, turning off shadows and using only a diffuse area light seems to do a lot.>>1000762>>1000767Godly. Thanks.
>>1002053got any recommended guides?
If your bad at texturing a really effective technique is to photobash then touch up the texture with added shadows and highlights. The pic rel is a 512x512 texture done by using Blenders stencil feature and was edited with Clip Studio Paint. Since your a solo dev this technique would probably be the best as it's quite quick while still being able to produce that early to mid 2000s style. I go for a more 2000-2005 style but you could definitely make some stuff more akin to model posted in the OP with some trial and error, although you would definitely need some more texture painting. As you said its really difficult to find resources on this era of graphics but I've done some digging and here is some stuff I've found. This channel is from a guy who is versed in the style and has a lot of good resources on his website too. Specifically has a really good character tutorial that's even using the software that was used during the era, 3D Studio Max and Bodypainthttps://www.youtube.com/@videogamemaker I've also found some books on the subject, particularly one from 2006 called "3D Game Textures: Create Professional Game Art Using Photoshop". It might be hard to find torrents of books like these due to the age and lack of interest but they're a resource straight from that era. I haven't started reading them yet because I'm working on a project atm so I can't say how effective they are but there is certainly some techniques to be gleaned. Also study the models and environments from games of that time, I take a ton of screenshots from games like Oblivion, Postal, RTCW, and the like. I'm glad that other people are passionate about this style, so many games are based off of PS1 but this "mid poly" era gets skipped over entirely it seems.
>>995160what do you call this look when the characters are white but very clearly made by an oriental game studio?
>>1003136just to clarify, the OP image is also an example of what I'm talking about. the game, haunting ground, is made by the japanese Capcom
>>1003136I doubt there's a specific term for it. I guess the best way to describe it would be an asian/anime style face shape with white complexion?
>>998851
The PS2 polycount is probably a touch higher, and the texture size a tad lower, but the following might helphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6AIWMWhXLA
>>995160i thought this video was interesting although it doesn't really answer your question.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_-K56PVeh4
>>998207Do I really need to know python to make rigs?
Are there any good books focused on model topology for this kind of thing?
>>998263For fine details you could model a high poly version and bake it to your uv texture to put on the low poly version.That would save you a bit of texture painting.
>>995160https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW_MyOrgNpY
Just came from another thread, I finished the CG cookie Blender beginner Course and my endgame goal is ps2/psp era graphics.Do you guys have any recommendations of videos, courses, or anything to help me get to that?
>>1002334I can also recommend that book. I didn't read it entirely (some parts of it explain pretty basic stuff) but there were some really helpful things in there! I'm pretty sure you can find it on sci-hub.Also, using an emulator and RenderDoc can be helpful for looking at textures and models to study, especially if you can't find any ripped models online.
>>995160What do you do with materials in Unreal or Unity for these graphics? Unreal seems like PBR would mess with these graphics and you would have to customize the materials heavily. At least Unity has legacy shaders I guess. Or am I just a pleb and am overthinking the material settings?
>>1008090>material settingsIt's not even just a matter of settings, you might need to write an entirely custom shaders just to pick what effect you want or not depending on the exact artstyle you are trying to emulate.
>>9982633DCoat seems to be a solution that some hand paint style artists use.I find the internal brush engine a little janky but being able to send projections to Photoshop and back to paint on is nice.Of course the final product will need a little cleanup but it's not terrible.
>>1010308Are you using 3DCoat for everything or just for texturing?
>>1010308>>1010454Just remember to never make anything that makes you or anyone else wanna touch themselves when you're operating the tool of our Lord that is 3Dcoat.
A generation of retards whose entire comprehension of 3D visualization boils down to a single platform's hardware optimization. No words like specular, microtextures, 3 point lighting, crushed dynamic range, subsurface scattering are necessary because you, anon, you LIVED playing video games for years and it's granted you the only vocabulary you need, pee ess plus digitGod the wonders you'll bring us with your BASED nostalgia aesthetic, I'm erect just thinking about it
>>1010481>the tool of our Lord that is 3DcoatIt took work to surpass DAZ3D being an entirely Mormon-run company where Michael 5's penis was a separate figure as the gold standard for Christardation in a medium invented to produce degrading porn, but 3Dcoat pulled it off somehow
>>1010539I'll do a lowpoly game with dithered subsurface scattering just to make you mad.
>>1010539I'll do a high poly game with none of those things to make you mad
>>995160So if my understanding is correct:Older games mostly used Spec-Diffuse maps, so just specular and diffuse/transparency maps.Occlusion maps existed, but were instead baked onto the diffuse mapModern workflows require roughness, diffuse, Normal, and occlusion maps, the normals being baked from a high-poly model/sculpt.Specifically for the PS2, it seems it couldn't handle Normal maps at all (and some places tell me Bump maps only showed up at the tail end, idk)Does all of this sound right?Honestly I don't know how much it matters if all you want to achieve is a "look". Like, it wouldn't make sense for me to merge my diffuse and occlusion if I have the option to layer them separately on modern systems...
how long before people is nostalgic for x360/ps3 era graphics? Somebody should be making a guide for that style already.
>>1010722Do you have a nice screenshot of that?
>>1010722PS3/360 feels too high fid for indie creators/studios desu
>>1010750how so? what would the issue with that be?
>>1010785extra detail means more time is needed to make anything, stupid fucking brainless retard
>>1010785Other guy is mad but he isn't wrongEven PS2 aesthetics is a stretch for a lot of solo creators, you're not just talking about players models but everything all together including environments, NPCs, enemies, menus, FX... It all adds up and 360/PS3 is leaps and bounds ahead of the PS2-style visuals.
you offset the workload with bought and free assets for things that dont matter, and focus you effort on the things that do.
>>995160The truth is that if you actually studied and practiced the fundamentals of 3D then you wouldn't have bothered to make this thread. What you are hoping is some anon to give you an easy One Click answer. I recommend you to stop this and just learn how to use AI along with the rest of the larping niggers on this thread who responded before me
>>1010870I appreciate the advice and have actually been doing that. I made this thread when I was going through a really depressive phase.Asking these questions and making threads, while still getting valuable info, was really just a delusional way to make myself feel better for not moving forward on projects and a means of procrastinating. I've since moved on, made actual decisions and have started to work on my projects, which is much more fulfilling, albeit slowly. Still appreciate those who've given actual advice/resources though
>>1010785It's hard to do convincing characters & monsters when not abstracted. Environments are easy. See something like Tormented Souls god awful animation & characters but bordering AA environments.
>>1010790I always assumed this was just a bunch of transparent layers on top of each other for the fur, which is a pretty crazy solution. There must be a trick because that must be like 10 layers
>>1010943It's only 3 layers actuallyYou can see the noise texture in the post above, there's three (dark, mid, light) in 3 layers. The dark adds density and provides "AO" (in a way).This is guessing based on what I'm seeing, but I supposed the UVs are done in a way that the noise texture is stretched giving it the hair-like look
>>1010949It's called shell fur and yes there are dozens of layers there
>>1010953I misremembered, it's 6https://www.froyok.fr/blog/2012-10-breakdown-shadow-of-the-colossus-pal-ps2/
>>1010943>>10109533dsmax has shipped with an example of such a shader since way back, I don't think it even works with max anymore unless you rewrite it a bit to run under dx12. Here's my understanding of the important bits and what they do. In 'Shadow of the Colossus' There must've also been some UV offset to read a different diameter alpha texture on each pass, the max example seem to omit that bit but you prob get the idea if you understand anything about shaders, just offset your UV's each pass to read a different texture space according to how your texture is organized.
>>1010870lol, lmaowhy even post if you're gonna say actually nothing?
Okay I'm a complete retard at this and a beginner but I have a question.Instead of painstakingly painting on the details on lowpoly models why not... sculpt them in zbrush and then bake that onto a lowpoly model?That way it's not only gonna look the same but in different angles it will actually have geometry like bumps and muscles actually protruding and you know be raised and lowered instead of just being painted on and looking flat once you turn it.Am I missing something?
>>1011131> sculpt them in zbrush and then bake that onto a lowpoly model?That's a pretty standard technique actually.
>>995160>>998206ancient posts and thread, but baking from high poly onto low poly seems to work very well. I've struggled for ages when it comes to texture painting since I can't draw, and relying on photos for texturing has limits, plus procedural stuff like PBR can only get you so far this allows me to quickly sculpt out a form, use Quad Remesher to get the low poly, then bake all the detail right on the low poly you could likely get better results by manually box modeling over for the low poly, but I suck at that so I leave it to automation with QRhere's a post I made on the process >>1011119>>1011131I sculpt in blender since you can do the entire baking process in there, and it's free, but yeah this method works. I'm surprised that I've never really seen it discussed when it comes to PS1 low poly stuff. not sure how often the method was used for PS2 era visuals only caveat is that you need to learn anatomy, but that's far easier than actually learning to draw, in my experience
>>1011138messing with it some more. important to bake out not just the diffuse but the AO as well, then combine them into a single texture the Color Management setting doesn't seem to affect the render also upping the amount of renders to about 5k or more makes a noticeable difference, makes it a lot less grainy and it only takes seconds
>>1011149>>1011138This is with or without normal maps?
>>1011149forgot to mention but I vertex painted over the sculpt, stayed in sculpt mode and used the paint tools since they're a lot better than what you get in the dedicated vertex paint mode, mostly just soft brush and hard blending, was using a mouse too but w/e just plug the Color Attribute node into the Principled BSDF and it should be fine >>1011150without, all just a single texture, although it's as easy as setting the bake setting to normal, then it's just a matter of plugging the normal map in alongside the diffuse
>>1011150here it is with a normal map, think this is working right
>>1011152more of this stuff. I'm a normal map faithful now
>>9982061 take note of the chest/pecs. see how they have shadows already baked into the texture there, bake shadows and ao into the model, then, and this is somewhat important, dont put them in lighting situations where it becomes overly obvious that its baked.you can also do bump mapping or normal mapping, this will let you bake in dynamic detail into the texture but requires better 3d sculpting skill, if you want to really go big or go home, parallax occlusion mapping, I think you can apply this to a non static object, and then add a tessellation perimeter that for a 1080p 1440p and 4k pixel count, so you only ramp it up when the detail would be visible. if you want to stick low poly at all times, normal or bump mapping is as far as you can go, if you want to stick with a very specific aesthetic, you have have to be very good at painting a texture. I will make a suggestion, get an airbrush irl and some large pieces of paper, anything works if you are ok with it being tossed after you are done/not keeping it long term, this will teach you about texture painting faster than digital ever will.
>>1010939animations are king, good animations are able to elevate bad looks and compliment high fidelity. bad animations at best fit in with the shitty looks, and become eye sores that make high fidelity graphics look like dogshit no matter how good they are.its the single hardest thing to get correct. the next hardest is going to be the models themselves, its hard to know exactly how to cull/where detail is required and where its not needed. I can easily bang out a 100 million poly sculpt that looks great, but tell me to make that sculpt 1000 and brain breaks. I could do it in time sure, but thats FAR harder than just giving 0 fucks about a poly budget.hell, making something ps3/360 level would be easier than a ps1/2 and making that look good, starting with ps2 you are largely following modern design methods
>>1010943holy shit I cant remember what this crap is called but there is a specific technique/shader for it, effectively, its how alot of grass and fur is made, and it works great when you dont push it to far because the meshes will make a great illusion of fur, but when you push it to far/get to close, you see the breaks in the illusion, sif from dark souls is a great example of it being pushed too far, look up viva pinata as the effect is used everywhere for everything in that game. but for the life of me I cant find someone demoing how anything about this, I only see more modern 'model every strand of hair and render it' methods.
>>1011185"Shell Fur" is the key word you want
you should check out acerola, he has a lot of good videos on computer graphicshttps://youtu.be/y84bG19sg6U
>>995160anyone know where i can find the DOA xtreme volleyball (1 or 2) 3d models? the old approach to sexy models is quite unique, and i cant seem to find something similar
>>1010958Unlike your post, you mean?
What's the pipeline to get a good enough looking quake-like model from a concept art?
>>1003934there should be a term for it though. i just wanted to make sure i wasnt the only one who noticed.
>>1011884draw the texture first
>>995160Not OP (I just like haunting ground) but how would one go about making the different costumes for a character? Just remake the model x amount of times with different looks or reuse it and just model around it with interchangeable pieces in the engine?Additionally, how would you guys handle changes to the model such as how they clearly change the position of the breasts between models? Is there an easier way to do that without completely remaking the model each time?
>>1014074>Not OP (I just like haunting ground) but how would one go about making the different costumes for a character?3D character artists create a base mesh (model with no clothing) first then model clothing over it. As long as you have a base mesh, you can make whatever costume you want. See pic related. >>1014074>>Additionally, how would you guys handle changes to the model such as how they clearly change the position of the breasts between models? Is there an easier way to do that without completely remaking the model each time?Blendshapes/shapekeys. Look it up. Lets you deform parts of the character and store it. So say if you wanted a character with small boobs to have big boobs, you can do that and manipulate a slider to control the size.
>>1014074You remodel every part of the model that needs to change to accommodate the new outfit, games with few cosmetic options usually makes a new complete connected hull of everything that goes with the new model, but games that have a gazillion outfits tend to have a system of swappable parts.Like there are several versions of your characters upper and lowerbody, the head is typically a separate model split at the neck.Take GTAO for example; your character wear a T-shirt the engine will render two sepparate skinned models for the upper body.The T-shirt the character is wearing and another model of just the arms and neck sticking out of it and all the other polygons of the naked skin is deleted. Your character wear a V-ringed T-shirt it renders that T-shirt and another version of the naked skin where the exposed are around the neck/chest is included. All in all there are like dozen variants of the upperbody with naked back, waist, forearms etc all kinds of combinations meant to go with different outfits. Then same for lowerbody and long or short sleeved pants/skirts and low/high boots etc.If you bother with breast physics the easiest thing would probably be to have multiple variants of the chest rig like free/holstered and your skeleton has two set of bones in that area to drive the animation. Having the same bones drive both would be very finicky as you wanna rig to bones in a neutral 'frame zero position' and now have to bother moving keyframes around and remember what frame to use for what outfit etc.
>>1014074For the breasts, for that game they just model it a bit differently and keep the same bones and no one really notices
>>1014077>>1014086>>1014102Thank you all for the advice! The Blender shapekeys in particular was really great. I looked into it and they seem exactly what I was looking for.
>>1000767>>1000762Texturing has always been my one achilles heel when it comes to models, I only ever did so the old fashioned way by photo ripping or editing and then aligning the UVs as best as I can out out of the box but the result never quite popped. Should I get 3DCoat somehow or would I be fine using Substance Painter instead? How do you go about the process of doing UV unwrapping? Only reference has been in Daz Genesis models for how to do that consistently for a base mesh. I just hate the idea of not having a one-size fits all template sometimes.
>>1015860I've never been particularly keen on substance painter's tools if you're intending to do anything hand-painted. 3dcoat is probably a better choice for this if you have it already. If you really want you could even use blender's in-built texture painting, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it.
>>995160>(but also because I’m solo and don’t have the time and resources to make too many high poly things)Keep in mind that many PS2 games (though not all) baked their models from high poly models to begin with, and this is fairly important when it comes to matching the style, this is especially true of mechanical things. Here's an example from Armored Core 2 Age Age. I've pasted the in-game model over the high-poly model the texture was (likely) baked and edited from.Depending on how you want to handle the artstyle, your time savings may not be as great as you think. There's an exponential drop-off between in time savings between PS1 and modern, to PS2 and modern, to PS3 and modern. Every generation demands more detail. Atleast if you stay on the PS2 side of things, you don't need to do normal, roughness, or metalness maps. Most of the time, PS2 models just had the equivalent of colormap with baked lighting.If want something that's looks nicer than PS1 and are solo, I would strongly advise you go for the PS2 look more so than the PS3 look.
>>1015930>Atleast if you stay on the PS2 side of things, you don't need to do normal, roughness, or metalness maps. Most of the time, PS2 models just had the equivalent of colormap with baked lighting.PBR workflow is easier and faster than a good colormap, and it works in different lighting.You can get far with a basic PBR material and basic colormap: paint bucket fill, gradient tool, light airbrushing. Easily hand-paintable with a mouse in a raster program. UVs will be the most time consuming part of either workflow.
>>1015932>You can get far with a basic PBR material and basic colormap: paint bucket fill, gradient tool, light airbrushing. Easily hand-paintable with a mouse in a raster program. UVs will be the most time consuming part of either workflow.That's reasonable. I suppose it depends on how "true" you want to be the PS2 look. I think if you went with baked color maps (or manually making them with photobashing, etc...), you would probably have a product that looks closer to the PS2. If you did PBR materials, you would probably end up with something looking closer to the original Xbox, where plenty of games had normal maps, per-pixel lighting, etc... Halo obviously being a strong show case for it at the time, with Doom 3 making another huge advancement a few years later.
>>1015930If you understand color theory and how to paint you don't even need high poly you just need to be a good artist which most people who attempt to copy this aesthetic are not
>>1015930So you're actually wrong here, that gun was in AC2 first and then later recreated for the Another Age opening. nearly everything in PS2 games was hand textured or used photo-sourcing until very late in it's life-cycle, where there was an overlap with the workflows on the PS3 era.Even then, it's still not a particularly good idea. The PS2 can't even do normalmaps unless it's 1 texture and 1 mesh on screen with nothing else.>>1015932Please don't encourage PBR workflows with something that requires significantly easier methods.Also PBR sucks hard for doing anything lower-end and makes alot of shader work annoying.
I'm currently examining some early PS2 Gundam games and it's kinda cool how SNES/PSX tile based the developers still made their games. Every square has a single texture. This could have been done much more efficiently.Does anyone know how roads are made these days? Like those highly complex models that fuse with the landscape?
>>1016010Spline models using segmented road assets usually.>this could've been done much more efficientlyIt usually is. Using a texture atlas with all the different texture tiles loaded at once and you just choose which goes where on the model.The texture is loaded into memory once and all the models using it only has that one drawcall.
>>1016087they usually did multiple small textures on older hardware because texture memoiry was more like a sippy straw back then, so smaller textures being loaded in was much easier than doing giant atlases.These days, GPUs take giant gulps when doing texture processing, so it's much easier to do atlases comparatively because the bus pass-through no longer matters.
>>1016132Except tile sets for 2d games were literally just atlases. This translated directly into 3d.People have been using them since the beginning for the sake of optimization.
>>1016087Are they just intersecting with the terrain or are they carefully deleting the landscape faces below the road? That's fairly simple with the San Andreas map and a manageable polycount, but I can't imagine those hires megapixel textures react well to manually deleting and welding stuff together.
>>1016239You generally just leave the landscape faces below. There are other optimization features in place to where texture size and polycount on a landscape would not really see any improvements with deleting obscured faces.The only time you do that is if you want to actually enter into the ground plane/landscape.
>>1016010I find analysing old games to be incredibly helpful to understanding how developers work within a budget. Everything from models to textures have been efficiently created. And to answer your question, Yes, mainly splines. But of course, depends on the game. Depends on the engine, and depends on the budget.
>>1016484>>1016491Thanks anons, gee this board is slow
>>995160How was MGS3 made? I assume PS2 didn't have bump mapping, yet the game looks gorgeous the blades of grass look amazing as you crawl through them, the environment looks amazing. Here's what I know:1. Gouraud shading2. No Bump/Normal mappingWhat am I missing? How is the lighting handled on a PS2 game?
>>1017965Also how was dynamic clothing handled during these days? Dead or Alive since the very beginning had really good cloth + hair simulation.
>>1017965Im assuming it’s using all of the PS2 specs because the boss battle heavy relying on you unable to see her. Maybe you're locked into the stage which means everything else outside it is fake walls with skybox. Not going to play 5 hours of MGS3 to get those answers from emulation or gameplay so that’s what I believe for the stage parts.Flowers could be 2.5 pictures that somewhat routes with camera angles from user perspective. Not something im familiar with i just know its a common practice in CGI. Trees are trees as far as i see. As for the characters, snake is wearing military uniform and that doesn’t cause problems for animation team. Boss she will undergo 2 model changes with picture you post that has the coat. The in-game fight model. The coat as all coats in the game are bones with physics applied, the way boss moves her clothes is only cutscene like the red flowers. So she has technically 3 models but only 2 exist in game.
>>1017976This is essentially correct. MGS3 is room based so effectively it is just a single room you are in for the boss fightThe flowers are definitely just png's with some polys added. You can kind of see it in the front most flowers in the picture you posted.Gouraud shading (though technically you can do this with stylized PBR, though gouraud would be the most direct way). Lighting is mostly static stage lighting with alot of it being handled by drawing it in on the texture of the models. If you go on model resource and download one for example, you can see some of the shading on the nose. Another good one is if you can find some of the textures for something like DMC3 (probably on one of the modding sites) with the texture layed out and you can see the shading done. >>1014074 if you look at the models legs or near the breasts you can see the shadow that is drawn on and then the rest would be handled by the lighting affecting characters in the stageOnly other thing would be I think the game has a screen filter or has a heavy hue correction on its lights to get the green/yellow grain
>>1017965The environment does not look amazing, everything is blurred or bloomed to oblivion, I can't even see the other guy's face That's how they made it look good
>>1017985https://youtu.be/LPaxe1EE2WE?t=4646Looks great to me.
>>995160>havent visited /3/ in a year>come back>same thread on front pageholy hell AI really did a number on you guys. this board is getting deleted 100% sure
>>1017994
>>1017966'Verlet integration' constraints, they are history independent and the physics emerges coherently at any frame-rate just as a result of the delta from the previous state.Implemented it myself in unity using this paper a few years back.https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/academic/class/15462-s13/www/lec_slides/Jakobsen.pdf
>>1018004Chur bro
>>1017965For the grass, I've seen some Unity solutions where they project a map around the player that describes left/right/front/back rotationobjects will rotate about their base based on the map overlapping then, so a blade of grass in the (front/left) region will bend forward and to the left based on the mapidk if that's what they did here for grasses, but it's a pretty clever solution I've seen since you can have the map fluctuate and trail with player movement, giving the grass a more realistic feeling for cheap
>>1017994That's just how /3/ has been forever. It was already the slowest board.
>>1018004>Implemented it myself in unity using this paper a few years back.Could you go into detail about how you would do the implementation for this? I'm new to this kind of thing so I'm assuming you apply the Verlet integration to points on a 3D model? Or is it something else?>>1018308>I've seen some Unity solutions where they project a map around the player that describes left/right/front/back rotationCurious about the performance of this solution. Wouldn't sending information to grass shader every frame be not very performant? That being said, not sure if there's any other way around it?
>>1017994It's always been slow, people tend to lean more towards quality than quantity around here.
>>1011149There's gotta be a way to clean up those shadow transitions, because the low res bake looks ugly as sin.
>>1011152>>1011170Normal maps with models like this don't really make sense. They weren't a thing when textures still had to be this low res.
