Microeconomics or macroeconomics?
>>288661846>getting lectured by two tanakas about economics while the country has been trying to swim away from a deflationary spiral whirlpool for their entire livesnein, fuck right off. these guys are allergic to interest rates, can we talk about this for a second.
>>288661895Blame the amerimutts
>>288661846I watched the Maou one and it felt like basics for macroeconomics. Like one of those kids cartoons telling you how red blood cells work>If we give the poor countries this thing called "potatoes" they stop being hungry and poor and can buy things from our kingdom insteadWow, thats crazy
>>288661895>interest ratesWe call that usury and put those who do that into ovens.
>>288661970
>>288661970>>288662013>>288662040Come on, let's not do this. This is a nice thread about economics.
>>288661846Grain economics
>>288661846Macroeconomics are obviously more efficient and important. But I wasn't a big fan of Maoyuu Maou Yuusha >>288662040>burgerland ruins something>people talk about it>R-R-RENTFREEEBehold, the intellect of the mutts.
>>288662103>Someone mentions anything at all >REEEEEEEEEE BURGERS! REEEEEEEEEE! >NO YOU'RE MAD!
>>288662011What did you expect
>>288661846Is there a middle ground between the two?
>>288662233Mesoeconomics
>>288662136Not sure kekBut it felt like its aimed at actual children. Like something my teacher would show me in school hoping we're finally paying attention to it
>>288662040It do be like that.
>>288662011I think I just get annoyed by how dumb they think their peasants and audience are. I did a quick google search and potatoes were domesticated before a lot of our languages were even invented. I just resent the notion that middle ages must automatically mean stupid.
>>288662508Kill yourself, isekaijin peasant.Your era sucked, and no, you did not have better work conditions.
>>288661846Boobs on the right hates being flabby-armed but is proud of her chastity
>>288662269More-so-economics?
>>288662056The economics in question:
>>288661846>Dude Dragon QuestFuck off
>>288662670My stocks are certainly rising rapidly
>>288662233[MEZZOFLATION]
>>288661846I don't care for made up shit like that.
>>288661846Micro.
>>288662963I need to watch this again.
>>288662996It's true, economics is all fake
>>288662508what are you talking about? potatoes were brought from the new world to the old world when europeans rediscovered americas. the spanish brought it to europe only in mid 16th century. they were domesticated by the tribes and civilizations in americas 10,000 years ago, but they may as well have been magic food when they first were brought to europe right before the renaissance.
>>288661846it's just fascinating how big maoyuu actually was in Japan and later among western fans but the anime never adapted the whole thing, the light novels never received licensed translations, and none of the FOUR or FIVE manga adaptations received a full licensed translation either. One of them did, but they abandoned it before the last two volumes.
>>288662011>>288663611
>>288663611the same goes for any nightshades (tomatoes, peppers, eggplants and distant cousins of nightshades (sweet potatoes) too. many legumes like beans as well.
>>288662963A-A-A-A-A-ANGEL
>>288662508before *writing was inventedlanguage has existed for hundreds of thousands of years, but writing only came into existence about 8000 years ago
>>288663611Potatoes are the best thing America has ever done for Europe, together with tomatoes.Why is American nightshade so much better than European nightshade?
>>288663635Maoyuu was never popular in the west
>>288663007Macro.
>>288664404it's one of the handful of revolutionary releases that made web novels to light novels transition ultra popular and brought the adaptations to the forefront of the weeb economics. it was never popular in the west, but it was recognized enough that it's surprising it never had proper releases.
>>288664291the answer is actually because americas had such an abundance of resources that they never really needed to invest in the kind of agriculture that europe and old world in general did, and as a result they simply worked to domesticate already abundant plants that grew very easily.
>>288664166there's symbolic evidence going back 40,000 years, but the earliest evidence of coherent texts are only 5000 years old, and earliest forms cuniforms and hieroglyphs are only 6000 years old at best.
>>288661846whoever decided to bring the cast from one to the other was a genius, even if they both were left unadapted in their entirety.
>>288664416Crazy how even forgettable anime like this used to have such quality animation.Nowadays it feels like only a major studio putting tons of effort into something they expected to be a hit would look so smooth.
>>288664532
>>288664532Arms always put in 200% effort, which is why they went bankrupt and defunct. Same as Xebec, same fate.
>>288664512oh right, 6k years agoI for some reason remember it as starting in 6000BC
>>288661895economics is a purely descriptive field, it is useless when making predictions on real systems. It's a social """science""", after all.Also, fundamental economic theory hasn't changed for like a hundred years.
>>288664565it's crazy to think that we more or less have the same brain hardware as humans going back 300,000 years but writing as we know it is only that old.
>>288664587the agricultural revolution and its consequences etc. etc.
>>288663611>before the renaissanceAnon, the beginning of the Rennaissance precedes the discovery of the new world by like half a century.
>>288662013So, why should anyone lend out money, if they cannot collect interest?
>>288664624my mistake I got a few things mixed up in my head.
>>288661846Isekainomics
>>288664643the idea of lending money purely to profit from it is evil fundamentally, more often than not in societies that did not collect interest, the money lent out was treated like an investment, and the return on investment depended on the venture that the money being lent was being used towards.
>>288664667>the idea of lending money purely to profit from it is evil fundamentallyBut the point of lending money is sound, no? People generally don't have the liquidity to do things, so they use their illiquid assets to back an injection of cash, which they can spend on means to take more money. Of course, the lender takes on a risk here, because the lender is not interested in obtaining and liquidating the illiquid assets if the repayment fails, as this would incur additional costs. This is why interest exists, it's a fee that hedges the risk of loan failure across all debtors.>the money lent out was treated like an investment, and the return on investment depended on the venture that the money being lent was being used towards.But people don't want to take on the risk of the venture itself. Interest is how you pay for the risk. The is the entiere of loaning out money, rather than investing.By lending money out instead of investing, you can also take on higher risks, because the interest is your risk fee.Most things in the debt economy are about how risk is distributed and who gets fucked if things don't work out.Remember the old maxim: If you owe the bank ten million dollars, that's your problem, if you owe the bank ten billion dollars, that's the bank's problem.And that's exactly the difference between lending and investing I outlined above.
>>288664898the ideas you list are all very new ideas, post industrial age. prior to that, it was limited to one ethnoreligious group throughout europe and the middle east, while pre-christian pagan nations simply did not have this, nor did christian or islamic societies.
Random comment, but is the difference between macro, and micro economics simply how money, or the idea of value is exchanged?I'm talking like micro in the context of Spice and Wolf is more themed around actually moving goods such as the wagon the protagonist uses.Then you have Maou Yuusha, where the things are produced.No bully.
>>288661846I completely forgot about Mahoyuu. Which is weird, because I liked it, at least as fat as I read. Went too long I guess?>>288663635>FOUR or FIVE manga adaptationsFucking what?
>>288664558Xebec got Fafner over the finish line, and for that, I'll always love them.
>>288664989yeah there were at least two main series focused manga, two side stories manga/spinoffs, and one 4-koma. only one out of the five actually completed the LN adaptation.
>>288664935>while pre-christian pagan nations simply did not have this, nor did christian or islamic societies.That's a lie. The ancient Sumerians had interest and that's as old as it gets.>prior to that, it was limited to one ethnoreligious group throughout europe and the middle eastThis is also incorrect, collecting interest above 1% per month was only banned among christians in the 8th century>post industrial ageThis is also incorrect, interest became more widespread and accepted during the Renaissance, for the reasons I outlined in the previous post. Ventures are generally expensive and risky, so to hedge against that instead of being invested in the venture, you charge a fee to take on the risk.You are clueless and probably get your economic lesson off Stormfront or something.
>>288664949>is the difference between macro, and micro economics simply how money, or the idea of value is exchanged? Macroeconomics is a higher level of abstraction and it generally concerns itself with fewer and more powerful participants, so traditional market logic tends to break down.
>>288661970Genuinely, why don't you faggots go to your own websites to be among your own people instead of coming to American made sites primarily used by Americans?
>>288661895Anon, I'll take "what is the carry trade for 200".
>>288665140>Macroeconomics is a higher level of abstraction and it generally concerns itself with fewer and more powerful participantsOkay, but like in the context of like minted currencies, are we talking the value of metals?I probably should have emphasized that I'm still trying to understand the agricultural, or agrarian economies in the context of either the middle ages, or even Sengoku era. Since correct me if I'm wrong, but looking at the lens through a modern context I simply don't understand it that well.>so traditional market logic tends to break down.Random comment, but that feel when no Agricultural history eccentric enthusiast grill friend.
>>288664935>it was limited to one ethnoreligious group throughout europe and the middle east, while pre-christian pagan nations simply did not have thisthe romans???
>>288662670More like WHORO amirite
>>288665750very early on when the anime first came out and the novels were getting fan translated, it was often written as horo in fansubs lol
>>288661846Modern Financial Macroeconomics.Funnily enough you actually have to be pretty autistic even for normies to like it, but it's an incredibly fascinating topic, especially once you start looking at international trade.P.S - The whole tariff debacle is actually alot more contested than what the MSM would say, it's more about global imbalances and distortions in the global economy that have massive ramifications in the job market and the just the general kind of economy you will live in. It's nice of grand debate that would fit well into a anime about competing ideologies.
>>288666809I need to reread it sometime.I remember almost getting filtered by Episode 3 with all the economic jargon. I just wanted Hagana back.
speaking of money, I've had this shit on my backlog for years now, any good?
>>288662011Their world straight up did not have potatoes, they got it from multiverse stuff.
>>288662040based ameriking
Spice and Wolf is the far more economically-literate show. The division of economics into "micro-" and "macro-" is already a political corruption of the subject to pretend that governments are somehow magically immune to the common-sense principles and consequences of "microeconomics."
>>288661846>and then he bought on margin and almost became a slave, funniest thing I've ever seen
>>288668598>dude governments are le bad i've got it all figured out!!
>>288667683Consider killing yourself for not having already watched it.
>>288661970If an American hands you a gun and tells you to shoot yourself, and you go ahead and blow your own foot clean off, is it really the Yanks fault?
>>288669042yes, because in that scenario the yanks would shoot you if you did not shoot yourself
>>288668598>governments are somehow magically immune to the common-sense principles and consequences of "microeconomics."they quite literally are, similar to how monopolies are.
>>288661846Maouyuu is technically the true cause of the isekai-/narou-boom. Unlike the other ones falsely credited with that where the only supporting evidence is "it was MUH popular around that time" and "it's the real cause because of... just trust me, bro!" you actually can verify Maouyuu written by Mamare and published by Enterbrain as a prototype of the grassroots narou-pipeline with Log Horizon (also written by Mamare) being the first actual narou-isekai. Most importantly it's reproducible. WN authors actually thought that they could imitate Mamare and publishers thought they could imitate Enterbrain's publishing model, so they did. In contrast, no one thought that they could possible replicate SAO's rise because that would be >JUST go the most orthodox way of becoming an LN author by taking part in official writing contests, bro >JUST build a relationship with the #1 LN-industry editor at the time (Miki), bro >JUST get published in the #1 LN-industry label at the time (Dengeki Bunko), bro >JUST get a 2-cour anime by A-1 Pictures, bro >JUST get shilled by the full power of Aniplex's late 2000s/early 2010s reach, bro SAO was just a Top-down engineered project that caused a bandwagon reaction by industry insiders. That happened a few times but it also tends to have a limited lifespan usually. One Punch Man was like that, too, but it had even shorter lasting power than SAO. And just like how SAO did not create a wave of self-published and/or VRMMO novels, One Punch Man did not create a wave of webcomic adaptations.
>>288663611Notably, potatoes presented a problem because the leaves are toxic, which is not true of most common old world tubers. So people ate the leaves and the potato together, got sick or died, and concluded "this plant is dangerous". It took a while for the correct version of this story to spread.
>>288670769>Log Horizon (also written by Mamare) being the first actual narou-isekai. It's from 2010, anon.Isekaislop webnovels developed alongside the actual LN market in the early 2000s.Haruhi Suzumiya no Yuutsu, ground zero for the LN boom, was in itself first and foremost a genre parody and it's from 2003. Sword Art Online is from 2001, it's older than Haruhi. Also, SAO is much closer to what naroukei would eventually become than Log Horizon.Don't say things if you are clueless.
>>288670769>SAO was just a Top-down engineered project that caused a bandwagon reaction by industry insiders. This is incorrect, the webnovel was already incredibly popular and it was one of the proving grounds for the webnovel to LN pipeline. If the SAO LN hadn't sold insanely well back in 2009, we'd be living in a very different anime landscape. It wasn't really a "top-down engineered project", it was more of a long shot gamble that happened to work out.When Maouyuu and Log Horizon went into mainstream publication, the model was already proven by SAO.
>>288666809The key issue with tarrifs is that it is a severe disruption to a system that is already distored to a ridiclous degree and that inhibiting the movement of goods doesn't address the fundamental unproductivity of the economy today, it exacerbates it. I, and more ans more analysts today, are of the opinion that the "so-called "tech" sector is fundamentally unproductive, the way things like banking can never be.By starting trade disputes and making export more difficult, it further distorts the market towards these unproductive industries, as they can earn moneh without the movement of goods and services.
>>288670981>Also, SAO is much closer to what naroukei would eventually becomeWhy do you lie? Early narou-stuff was being outright hostile to SAO. Log Horizon having Shiroe explicitly be a support who takes the strategic route and dabs on hot-headed frontliners who act before they think. Overlord having put a lot of emphasis on the whole deal of the guild Ainz Ooal Gown "only allowing adult working productive members of society to join the guild". Doesn't it sounds like it's taking a jab at a very particular someone? And then the most obvious one, the Sword Hero in Tate no Yuusha being a reckless retard who lost the ability to differentiate between a virtual world and a real one, just going for the grind, everything else be damned, causing death to thousands he considers as mere "NPCs". SAO is coded like a mix of the typical 2000s battle fake-harem where there are several girls orbiting the MC but there is only one actual serious mono relationship between the MC and a main girl (which to be fair already made it better than much of the other 2000s stuff where it's just endless blue-balling all the way) and the late 2000s trend of "survival" (e.g. BTOOOM!, Future Diary, etc.) In that sense SAO lacks any of the traits that are characterizing the 2010s narou isekai. It always boils down to "it was MUH popular, so it deserves credit, because... it just does!" no reasoning, no explanation. With other cases you can usually make a connection regarding either the content or the meta aspects of later isekai being inspired by isekai from around 2010-2013 and you can even create a causal connection and follow along the evolution of this isekai boom of the 2010s. But I have never seen anyone make that connection for SAO. Instead it's always only an appeal to its age and popularity and at the very most some extremely broad-stroked superficial points that can't even be taken seriously (e.g. MUH black hair protagonist).
>>288671066Where is the webcomic boom after One Punch Man? It was also super popular back then so by your logic it should have proven the webcomic->manga->anime pipeline. Where is it? The only other case like that I can think of is Isekai Tensei Ojisan. But where's the webcomic-aggregator boom in Japan? Where are all the publishers trying to catch the next OPM in the 2010s? Nowhere. Because this situation cannot be reproduced. Same with SAO.
>>288664587>it's crazy to think that we more or less have the same brain hardware as humans going back 300,000 yearsHumans didn't stop evolving 300,000 years ago. Even humans 10,000 years ago are different to humans of today.
>>288664949pretty much, just the difference between individuals/small-businesses, and international-corporations/nations
>>288671360>Where is the webcomic boom after One Punch Man? It was also super popular back If you think One Punch Man was anywhere near as popular as Haruhi, you are utterly delusional.SAO is a separate issue. It's not Webnovel to anime but Webnovel to LN. The reason why webnovel to LN is different to webcomic to manga serialization is that manga is significantly more expensive to both produce and print than paying an editor to fix up a webnovel and printing a book. Manga is also much more competitive in comparison, as shelf-space is cheaper than magazine pages.The LN to anime model was proven three years earlier by Suzumiya Haruhi many times over and the impact of Suzumiya Haruhi is hopefully self-evident.You are simply wrong about this.
>>288669042it's more like>shoot yourself or we'll pull our military out of your defenseless country
Crops rotation.
>>288662011>Wow, thats crazyIt's completely 100% true. The introduction of potatoes: a plant incredibly easy to grow, that can thrive in neglected land, produce ample edible starchy tubers that require minimal processing, and is both nutritious and delicious, was completely life changing for society. It's a miracle vegetable. The potato was so influential it accidentally created the conditions for the first renters economy in Ireland and Russia:In the old days you had to allocate enough land to grow some kind of shit grain to feed your serfs, like oats or millet or buckwheat or something, but with potatoes you could now feed your serfs on practical no land. This created a massive property "crunch" where serfs were progressively assigned smaller and smaller plots and land-owners used more and more land for commodities like flax, wheat for export, and wool. Because more wheat was being exported "off site" than ever before, the amount of food in towns skyrocketed, the price plummeted, and urban communities could actually start feeding tons more unpaid dipshit gig workers (who were being forced off of farms anyway). >>288663611>>288662508It's this one: >>288670979The potato was unlike any plant europeans had experience with. You need to remember that despite all their physical differences: turnips, radishes, cabbages, mustard, canola, are all come from a single plant called the Brassica. Every part of this plant is 100% edible and old world cultures exaggerated every part of it into it's own seperate vegetable over the course of like 30,000 years.
>>288671467Why the fuck do you even keep bringing up Haruhi into this? Like it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. And you mention how Haruhi is the inspiration for going from LN to anime and popularizing that concept, yet it is stuck at 2 cours main story anime, 1 cour spin-off anime and a movie. How is this an inspiration? It's at most a bit over average in that regard.
FX fighter kurumi-chan will save economic anime
>>288662013Do you support periodic debt forgiveness yes or no
>>288661846Micro because macro is mostly manger talk. We must catch the stakeholders by the kimono and syngergize the vertical leverage throughputThat said i have started to really enjoy economics as a 30 year old ojisan. Back in my 20s i only cared about tech but now i love gaining knowledge about economics. It's pretty cool. The investing side, liquidity, and debt based things seem like bullshit though. Maybe because i have never taken a loan in my life, nor do i intend to. Just seems awfully risky
>>288671291>Early narou-stuff was being outright hostile to SAO. Literary reception and impact on market trends are two completely separate problems.Arguably the strong reception of SAO in fiction proves my point that it sold a ton, which led to it being a proven model for webnovel to light novel.>SAO is coded like a mix of the typical 2000s battle fake-harem where there are several girlsWhich is hardly surprising as it was written in the early 2000s.>BTOOOM!, Future DiaryNeither of these are webnovels, they're manga and they are, as you correctly identified late 2000s.
>>288671828>Why the fuck do you even keep bringing up Haruhi into this? Like it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. It has literally everything to do with the topic at hand.Haruhi is why LNs took off to the degree that they did, Haruhi is why LN adaptations took off to the degree that they did. Therefore, there is no way around Haruhi when considering LN publishing and the production of anime adaptations of light novels.You can verify this for yourself quite easily, open any season browser and count the number of LN adaptations before 2006 and after 2006.Which leads to the question: What happened in 2006?Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu.>an inspirationWe are talking about economics, not art. It clearly instilled the confidence that betting on LNs can result in hits. And sure enough in 2009 (and several other times), it did.SAO occupies a similar role, as it was the very first major hit in the webnovel to LN space, leading to publishers gobbling up every webnovel that had a decent shot at selling well.
>>288671910>Just seems awfully riskyit is all about managing risk
>>288672458>Haruhi is why LNs took off to the degree that they didWhat about Shana? What about Zero no Tsukaima (the anime came out in the same year the Haruhi anime came out)?
>>288672540Fair point, there were several LN adaptations that ended up being successful.Of course, neither of these were anywhere near as popular as Haruhi. At Summer Comiket 2007 Haruhi had around as many circles as Shakugan no Shana and Zero no Tsukaima combined.I don't think you get just how big Haruhi's impact wad.
>>288661846Picoeconomics
>>288672727>Haruhi had around as many circles as Shakugan no Shana and Zero no Tsukaima combined. Correction, it was double.Haruhi in general was HALF of the ENTIRE LN section.
>>288668027>>288671709I know that. I was making fun of the fact that this show acts like thats groundbreaking. >Give poor people more food and money and it'll help us in the long run tooIts literally basic knowledge for macroeconomics.
>>288671679
>>288673037Yes, and nobody at the time and place story happens knew that.>In some conditions, giving others means to prosper would benefit you in turnMight be a groundbreaking concept when your basic means of operation is "rob and kill to make double sure nobody can rise to challenge you".
>>288664949Mainstream economics is a pseudo science that only became mainstream because it claims that governments and (((banks))) printing money is good thing. Needing two different explanations for what it clearly the same thing is a massive red flag.
>>288673037>>Give poor people more food and money and it'll help us in the long run tooAfrica blocks your that.
>>288664935>muh heckin Jews money isn't dirty to touch. there is nothing wrong with lending out money and charging the interest whether you call it usury or investment. Yiddish aren't the only one doing it.
>>288672727But it didn't last because it's a shitty model. Those who followed the Haruhi model are still below Haruhi's lifetime circulation figures even now. Only Danmachi managed to break even with it so far. Tensura and Kusuriya departed from this model and instead opted to a more manga-centric model. While Haruhi's model mostly disregarded the manga version, these two did not, as they went with either several spin-offs or even 2 separate main series adaptations and now they are they are the two indisputably most best-selling LN franchises in Japan.
They are fake...
>>288674510Sure thing Ephraim
>>288675048But THESE are real.
>>288673850It makes sense in the story but it doesnt make sense from a storytelling perspective. Thats like creating a whole anime in a world where bread is not a thing. And the whole anime the main character constantly explains things every viewer already knows like >Did you know? You can bake bread and even TOAST it>>288674246Kinda but not quite, its more complicated than that. You need a functioning state for that to work which isn't the case in africa.African people get lots of money but the states aren't allowed to do shit. All of their resources are sold for peanuts to western countries and thus the state can't afford to build any infrastructure or schools/universities.
>>288664558F
>>288674669It's always easy to speak with hindsight.There is a decade between Haruhi and any of those.Of course, as the publishing models gets refined, more value can be extracted.Nonetheless, Haruhi has more cultural impact than any of this nonsense.
>>288676075I love reading these posts since to this day I still refuse to watch Haruhi just because the fans always say shit like "more cultural impact."
>>288676116It's fine, nobody cares if you watch it or not and what the actual LN and anime are like is completely irrelevant. It's up to you, but it has an enduring following for a reason.The question at hand isn't "is Haruhi good?" the question is "did Haruhi sell well?" and the answer is "absolutely".
>>288661846i watched maoyuu and it sucked but the op song is great
>>288675048
>>288670769>the true causeThe true case is that isekai is just a great fucking idea that works.
>>288663635The mangas were competing with each other to be the one
>>288675809>Kinda but not quite, its more complicated than that. You need a functioning state for that to work which isn't the case in africa.Lol no. You need a species of human capable of producing advanced societies. 70 average IQ species won't cut it.
>>288679720Do you know what a state is?
>>288679770Do you know what genetics are? How much aid and education would chimpanzees need to produce a functioning state and advanced societies?
>>288679720>speciesStopped reading there
>>288679818>How much aid and education would chimpanzees need to produce a functioning state and advanced societies?Chimpanzees are fundamentally different from you in the way a nigger is not.
>>288679818>>288679770They were give incredibly functional states like twice in rhodesia and south africa and they turned them into absolute shitholes.
>>288679876Are you the guy from yesterday who thought only Jews had interest?
>>288679876>They were give incredibly functional states like twice in rhodesia and south africaNo, they weren't.Being a colonial underclass generally means you don't have a state.But if you are looking for some successful states using the Western imperial model, try looking into Rwanda.
>>288676643Wow. A post that contradicts what I said, and yet... it sounds so convincing that it might be correct...
