How did 100k soldiers disappearing from the battlefield not immediately get noticed.
>>288803301Superior Chinese tactics folded 1000 times during the Spring and Autumn Period
>>288803301they dont have wi-fi
>>288803301Bad writing, as usual.Related question, with the same answer: How did 100k soldiers *appearing* on the battlefield, in between Kyoukai and Shin (panels are one chapter apart), not immediately get noticed?
if Hara wanted to make Reebok the main "antagonist", why not leave Zhao for last?he already made a fuckton of historical inaccuracies, why insist on the "Zhao after Wei"
>>288803935>a fuckton of historical inaccuraciesName three.
>>288803301It's not all that strange for it to happen actually. Armies don't "just fight" constantly, these guys go back to their camps every day and sometimes just kinda state each other down. We have seen battles witch 100k on each side and yet each general throws in like 10k to actually engage. It's not strange then that the backline just fucks off and you might not even notice for a day. Like it would make total sense for Mouten specifically to not to notice this because any lack of enemy action could not only be chalked up to their successful plan and general confusion, but reports of lack luster enemy response would also be delayed as each individual unit is not only happy that they are not being fucked but also literally doing their jobs as in holding the enemy seemingly successfully. I would totally buy if majority of the enemies Mouten and Shin bypassed just disengaged and fucked off without major fuzz.What is bizarre is the total lack of scouts from Mouten because if he is supposed to form a wall between the Zhao and Shin then the one place the enemy can't just "fuck off to" is right trough his own formation. They should have fucked off to the sides and thus been at a major time disadvantage if they actually wanted to go around leaving Mouten to arrive to Shin first. It' also bizarre how Ten had no scouts to get caught literally pants down by this. Even if we give Riboku his secret pathways that lets him bypass Mouten with no time lost Shin should have had enough warning from his own scouts to at least halt the siege and get into formations. They should have been expecting SOME response and thus had scouts out, even if it's literally not Riboku.>>288803935>he already made a fuckton of historical inaccuraciesI don't think there are any major historical inaccuracies, like nothing on the level of actually changing how the story at large plays out which is what skipping Zhao would be.
SOMEBODY TRANSLATE THIS SHIT ITS BEEN OUT FOR 6 YEARS
>>288804603Mother of cope! Yeah, the armies in hot pursuit of you (as you invade their very heartland and march towards their capital) suddenly decreasing by 80% is not noticeable or strange at all. Maybe they just wanted to "go back to their camps" and "just kinda state(sic) [Mouten] down". Perhaps their feet simply hurt from all the running, huh?There is no dimension in which this plot development isn't extra-chromosomes-retarded.
>>288803301>>288804603Compare this scene to when Hara had Kanki surround&trap Kochou. It required the chaos of a one-sided battle, thousands of Qin soldiers dying, tens of thousands of soldiers deserting, the Kanki army being an ex-bandit army, an entire unit being moved to ensure the free access of the surviving Kanki army and most importantly Kanki had planned it from the onset of the war as an all or nothing gambit.
>>288804664
>>288804674
>>288804696
>>288804704
>>288804713
>>288804664There's a different scale there. Riboku isn't breaking trough an advancing army like that. He is simply going around and Mouten isn't giving chase, he believes he is winning by simply holding off the enemy which logically he is. The enemy fucking off and being lost is not strange. It's the part where they just phase trough Mouten who should have been on the lookout specifically for that as he was supposed to form a wall that's bizarre.
>>288804720
>>288804720Final.This is just typical double standards Hara has for Riboku compared to most others in the manga.>>288804722Anon, you can’t slip away a force that’s almost a 100k. Even without Moutens scouts the Hi Shin Unit should have noticed it. Also, does one Zhao soldier equal 10 Qin soldiers? They went from being in a stalemate… to staying in a stalemate with 8 out of every 10 soldiers gone? You need a good reason to explain why Mouten didn’t notice it immediately, for the Kanki arc it was the fog of war from the one sidedness and tens of thsihdands of soldiers deserting for real.
>>288804758>Anon, you can’t slip away a force that’s almost a 100k.Of course you can, if they stopped chasing with majority of their forces and instead diverted those to the sides to attack Yotanwa and Ousen it would have been perfectly consistent with the scenario presented, Mouten would have figured it out at the same time but being unable to help. The problem comes with the fact that they just phased trough Mouten with the Riboku teleporter, not that it wasn't immediately noticed. If they actually went around Mouten in a sneaky fashion, Mouten should have simply gotten to Shin first because going around takes more time.>They went from being in a stalemate… to staying in a stalemate with 8 out of every 10 soldiers gone?Because they switched roles, Mouten struggling when on the offense to Mouten being on the defense and winning because he only has to stand there to win. >You need a good reason to explain why Mouten didn’t notice it immediatelyI already gave 4 specific ones each one is sufficient to explain it in this case.
>>288804800No you can't. Simply moving them would be obvious from far away and there should be scouts as well.
>>288804758I’ve reread the pageDo you do the sameHope we never fadeIf we’re just ships passing the nightI hope we never see the morning lightIt’s crazy how the time just seems to flyBut for a moment you and IWe caught it
>>288804758Riboku presenting himself with half the army is quite an asspull but it's entirely possible. We haven't seen Mouten's perspective yet.
>>288803301How were they planning to siege a city of 50k with 10k? also where is the rest of Shin's army? he only sent help to Kyoukai, and Kyoukai broke through with that army? Were they expecting the rest of the army to show up and make the siege possible, but if that's the case, how come Riboku was able to move his whole army faster than Shin was able to have all his troops arrive?
>>288803301riboku used his special teleporting powers he got from cultivation
>>288804800I think you might be legit mentally impaired. Or trolling, which is even worse (4U). An 80% reduction is not something you miss in this context and your "reasons" are absolutely dogshit (cf. >>288804640, which funnily enough you never addressed). Maybe you suck with numbers or something and if so, let's put this into perspective for you:Imagine you're attacked by ten guys. Suddenly, it's only two. Imagine your side gig normally brings in $2000 a month. But this time it's only $400. Imagine your bait usually gets five (You)s. Then it's only a single one.A fivefold decrease in most cases, but ESPECIALLY in this one, isn't something you miss or take half a fucking day to notice. It is immediately obvious and there is zero, I repeat, zero excuse for anyone not to catch the second it happens. Not only does it not get noticed right away, when it finally does dawn on them they first go through that elaborate "Hmmmmmm, what could it mean?" when it's fucking obvious. Again, the enemy's main priority would be to address the breach in their defenses as getting flanked is like one of *THE* most dangerous situations imaginable in war. Yet the enemy just fucking off with the vast majority of their forces doesn't raise an eyebrow in that situation where you'd expect them to throw everything into stopping you?Absolutely laughable.
>>288805145He can teleport, anon.
>>288803777superior Zhao horses
>>288805375You are failing to account for scale. You can only se the front of the army, the back lines can sneak away without being noticed if there is no good scouting by the enemy. My bet is that Ousen will advance and pincer Riboku which would be an inversion of the Battle of Bayou.This time it will be Ousen having the mighty Zhao horses (>>288805447) surprising Riboku.
>>288805476>You can only se the front of the armyYou don't understand what deployed forces look like. They're not hidden behind the horizon, they're well within view or else they'd be useless as they wouldn't be close enough to react to enemy movements. Furthermore, your assertion that only a minimal number of the forces are engaged in battle at any one time, with the vast majority just "sitting back" out of view (allowing them to slink away unnoticed if they so choose), is absolute hogwash. Why are you just lying at this point?
>>288805512>You don't understand what deployed forces look likewe know fuckall about medieval combat let alone ancient Chinese combat, anon.>They're not hidden behind the horizonthe horizon line is 3 miles, anon.i'm not even that anon but Mouten DID notice. Mouten didn't have reserves. he split his forces into 3 to cover the route of Hishin and Kyoukai and noticed in a single engagement that the enemy is smaller than it was.
>>288805145>How were they planning to siege a city of 50k with 10k?superior Qin soldiers. i don't know how many soldiers are in the city. do you?>how come Riboku was able to move his whole army faster than Shin was able to have all his troops arrive?Riboku sama allowed Shin to break through by splitting and sending the army that was supposed to stop to hold and/or slow down Mouten and Kyoukai.we don't know when the 80/20 split exactly occured.we don't know how many soldiers were in the second line as they're not shown on the map nor are we told their numbers iirc.
>>288805375It wasn't worth addressing because it got blown out by my previous post already and frankly it got addressed in the manga. But since you insist I will post it again. Mouten is not only defending his area but covering for Shin and Kyokai. He is not fighting against 2 but 6 in your example. More over everything is going according to their plan, they are now defending. The fact that they are defending successfully is their plan working. They are unaware that Zhao doesn't actually intend to attack but that isn't their fault. This idea that the enemy is in "hot pursuit" is in your head only as is simply a strawman. The enemies broke off the chase to regroup after the defense got pierced, this is what you would do in that scenario and what basically everyone has always done in the fights thus far, when your formation breaks you lose all fights if you keep fighting so you retreat and regroup and then try again. It makes sense for them to do that and this is what Mouten would expect in that scenario. Any sub unit in Moutens army in that position would expect that when they defeat the small attack that comes that the Zhao must be attacking somewhere else instead and that they did their job well, that their plan is working better than expected, that the enemy is in confusion and thus they are facing just scattered forces or that they got lucky which I already explained to you. The fact that Zhao is not attacking en mass anywhere is not obvious to anyone because no one in the scene has drone footage of the battlefield. It takes time for everyone to send messages to everyone else to figure out that nothing is happening anywhere and that the Zhao just aren't attacking. Even at that point it's not immediately obvious that the enemy army is gone, they could simply have retired for the night or have some other plan for major reorganization such as attacking Ousen or Yotanwa and leaving the units that broke trough to other forces or they may be waiting for orders etc.
>>288805563Anon are you actually retarded?
>>288805426But can he still spawn a Bushin out of his ass?
>>288805771He will an cient chinese alchemy to a Houken Jiangshi.
Don't they have historical records of these battles to draw strategies from? This zhao shit has been so half assed
>>288805810The records don't usually go into great enough detail to really provide that sort of information. They just say stuff like "they attacked from north and captured X" or a "battle happened in Y". At best they usually contain some highlight like "they trapped the X in a ravine" or something of that nature. Hara still has to come up with the details and personal perspectives even when historical source material of who actually did what is available.This was 2200 years ago after all. Besides strategy and tactics is exactly the sort of thing that you can just make the fuck up in story like this. You just know where it starts and where it ends and various mid points, as an author you have the most freedom in between each known point to come up with your interpretation of how it could have that we went from A to B.
RibokuNo further explanation needed
>>288805726i'm not retarded
>>288805914“As for the conclusion of the battle of Sai, there exists a single line recorded in the Shiji, Hereditary House of Zhao section:4th year (241 BC)Zhao general Pangnuan (Houken) leads Zhao, Chu, Wei, and Yan in the siege of Qin city Zui (Sai).They failed.”四年，庞煖将赵、楚、魏、燕之锐师，攻秦蕞，不拔。
>>288805659>Mouten is not only defending his area but covering for Shin and Kyokai. He is not fighting against 2 but 6 in your example.I'm assuming Qin officers can do simple arithmetic, the kind even animals can do, where you compare quantity A with quantity B and notice that B's not even a quarter of the original A. In other words, it is of no consequence that it's a wider area. Each of the three groups should have noticed that the enemies they were expecting were MASSIVELY reduced in numbers. In fact, that he split them up made this MORE obvious. Each of his detachments should've been OUTNUMBERED and yet given this 80% reduction, THEY would've outnumbered THEM. This isn't something you just shrug off as "Wew, guess our job got magically easier, nothing to see here".>More over everything is going according to their plan, they are now defending. The fact that they are defending successfully is their plan working.Utterly irrelevant. You don't go "I'm succeeding at my task so I can switch my brain off and ignore painfully obvious signs that something is off". Or maybe (You) do, your "reasoning" certainly wouldn't make that surprising.>They are unaware that Zhao doesn't actually intend to attack but that isn't their fault.It is their fault for not noticing an 80% decrease in troops.>The enemies broke off the chase to regroup after the defense got pierced [...]If that was what you'd expect then they wouldn't send any troops after him but regroup with everyone, let alone a whole fucking fifth. Also, you can "regroup" on the march, we've seen other armies do so before in Kingdom (e.g. Kanki after the hare whistle or the Hi Shin Unit after that disastrous defeat under Ousen).>retired for the nightAnon, are you dumb? This happened during the day. The sun's out.
>>288805563>we know fuckall about medieval combat let alone ancient Chinese combat, anon.This is just blatantly wrong, you dunce. We have literal entire books written on the details of both ancient warfare (e.g. De re militari for the Romans or Strategikon for the Byzantines) as well as medieval warfare (such as the Livre des faits d’armes et de chevalerie or the Collectanea, French and Italian respectively). There's even an entire category of Wikipedia articles on this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_strategy_books). China had an even broader collection than Europe. And that's not even taking into account the wealth of historical documents from both rulers, officers and even rank-and-file that survived to this day. Just face it, your assertion that individual armies of the past split up their forces beyond the horizon during battle is pants-on-head retarded.
Crazy maneuvers when you leave a weak force to bamboozle your enemy into thinking your army is still in place and maneuver your main stregth to fuck him in the ass thanks to superior knowledge of the terrain happened in real life. Battle of Chancellorville, for example. The problem is, such scenarios heavily rely on indecisiviness and hesitation of the enemy burdened with a history of previous defeats. But in this situation Qin is supposed to be led by competent generals, and their army is on the roll after winning an almost unbroken string of victories despite the odds. All Qin generals should be proactively seeking chances for success and glory, when pressure from Zhaokeks suddenly falters.
>>288806430all speculations and nothing concrete. they don't even know how the Roman triplex acies worked.they don't know if arrows were shot in an arc or in a straight line in the medieval era.all we have are vague descriptions.
>>288806871(me)i'll concede some because my statement turend out to be hyperbolic due to your retardation.we have mostly speculations and little concrete info. i'll also add that we don't know how cavalry charges worked in the medieval era.
>>288805771Bro he already has an elf that can cast teleportation
>>288805771What deck would Riboku sama play?
>>288804640Absolutely. If Rebook only took 20% of every force, but the strongest warriors and generals, I -could- somehow understand it, and that would still be enough to slam Shin against the wall, but 80%, and teleporting without being noticed by Ten, scouts, Mouten, every other Qin general, and appearing between Kyokai and Shin in a milisecond? Fuck off.
>>288807235Maybe its really hard to notice because its peasant vs peasant at this stage of the war
>>288803301They are chinese they all look the same, that or they are blind cuz they don't have glasses
>>288803777>Bad writing, as usual.Blessed digits confirmNo doubt some anon will barf out a half-assed explanation about Riboku being superior so that's why he can hide a cities worth of marching people, when the truth is it was just a badly implemented plot point
>>288806471>The problem is, such scenarios heavily rely on indecisiviness and hesitation of the enemy burdened with a history of previous defeats.It works here because everything is going exactly to plan for Mouten. It's perfectly reasonable that he would be fooled by quite a long time simply because he believes he is winning and so does everyone of his sub commanders. The issue is not that they got fooled but where the troops that leave end up, which is directly behind Mouten which is the one place they couldn't possible go to. Attacking left or right or even doing some weird gambit against Atsuo would all be something that could take a long time for Mouten to realize that it's happening, but not phasing trough his own defensive line no matter how much local knowledge of secret paths Zhao has, not with that kind of numbers.
He read the art of war and sun tsu ghost gave him power of teleport
>>288805771He only had a Kyūshin card this time.
>>288806471>The problem is, such scenarios heavily rely on indecisiviness and hesitation of the enemy burdened with a history of previous defeats. But in this situation Qin is supposed to be led by competent generals, and their army is on the roll after winning an almost unbroken string of victories despite the oddsbwo?Ousen was defeated and Kanki was killed back to back and they were so buckbroken they switched to attack another country.
>>288803301Apart from 80% of the army fighting Mouten disappearing, the speediness of everything is ridiculous. The word teleport gets overused but funnelling likely a hundred plus thousand soldiers through hidden roads (not main roads built to rapidly transfer traffic) fast enough that they don’t get noticed by any of their enemies is beyond believable.
>>288806871>>288806959We know enough to confidently say that a force of ~10k didn't just deploy 2k against their ~10k opponent and parked the other 8k beyond the horizon for ... reasons. Sure, maybe you'd split up to take different towns or something but if you know your opponent is of equal size then (You)'d be legit braindead to march them to their deaths while you're sitting clueless and hour+ away. That you'd even argue this point is beyond belief.
>>288808361>a force of ~10k didn't just deploy 2k against their ~10k opponentwe don't know how many Zhao forces Mouten was facing because we don't have info on how many soldiers were in the second line.we can kind of somewhat guess it was a narrow pass since Hara consistently drew some sort of boundaries between them.
>Shin can't see shit from the back because of his weak eyesight>Riboku sama recieving reports on enemy numbers because he can totally see how many they are
>Kisui can't see 5x4 thousand men coming his way and change his formation in time because he can totally see across the battlefield
>>288803301The chinese are very small, please understand
>>288803301Chapter 880 Spoiler is out>>288803777How did Kyoukai manage to teleport to Karyoten?
>>288809563>Reeboks 20% somehow could hold back Mouten's full army and Mouten had to pull out a meme detachment to try to save ShinThis is just ridiculous.
>>288809563>they must have used my teleporters!
>>288809563Ok Hara is actually a moron.
Ten dreaming of being as great as Riboku sama
>>288803301All of the numbers in ancient Chinese history are massively overinflated. The real battle was probably closer to 20-50k for each side at most. Romans did the same thing when they massively overexaggerated enemy numbers like claiming that iron age Britain was able to muster an army of 230k under Boudica.
>>288812700>iron age Britain was able to muster an army of 230k under Boudica.While that's probably over exageration, do remember that for these kinds of tribal hosts they count women and children too. It's not like 230k armed to the teeth warriors lined up, it's their entire population essentially.
>>288813272What would they lose not killing him here, really?
How do you survive this ?
>>288816095Secret elven healing magic tribe.
>>288816095that's just a lung wound
>>288815878Probably an attack by another Coalition army plus in story, truly unifying the country would be impossible after that.
>>288817305Shin's wife, and Cuck Ryo Ten
>>288816568are you saying you won't die from pierced lung? lol
>>288817406You can survive it, just that I don't know if there was a actual way to treat it in Ancient China.
>>288817496How would they treat her drowning in her own blood and her lung collapsing? That's hard to fix even with modern surgery.
>>288818148Which is why I said that I don't think there is a way in the era the manga takes place on.>How would they treat her drowning in her own blood and her lung collapsing?With a tube in her chest.
>>288818148it's not. minor cases can even be left without any intervention. she's a big girl. she can handle it.
>>288809563Brb I need to issue a fatwa on the retard Hara
>>288818892A tube won't fix the collapsed lung or the infection a dirty arrow could cause. At best she would lose one of her lungs and survive, but she wouldn't be doing any fighting after that.>>288819037An arrow with a broad tip wouldn't be a minor case.
>>288819403she'll tank it. you're being too pessimistic.
>>288817305funny how she acts like she's got anything to show off with that boob window
>>288812680Can she pull a Houken out her ass though? Or does Shin/Kyoukai count? Maybe she is the great strategist after all...
>>288819785Well that, plus there's always Rei. And if that's not enough, maybe our newly appointed ten bow bro can step up. OPTIONS for the great strategist
>>288808035It almost reminds me when Game of Thrones really started going to shit>Season 1: "The journey from the North to King's Landing will be long and arduous. Prepare for a couple weeks of long days on the road before our small band arrive.">Season 8: "Okay, now that the battle of Winterfell is over, time for us to gather our forces and march our entire army south. We should be at King's Landing in a couple days." Feel like it's just a symptom of the creator no longer caring about small details and just rather getting a move on.
>>288820316Which is strange since he added so much filler in the previous Zhao arcs.
