I don’t get it. If he is so strong, why does he lose so often ?
>>288872962He was too strong to win
>>288872962Zero INT for a buff he never needed.
>>288872962>I don’t get it. If he is so strong, why does he lose so often ?He was actually too strong to be truly manifest fully as a Servant. Each version of him is only one aspect of his nature. The irony is that the living Hercules was much stronger than his Servant copies. This is an inversion of the modern society servants like Jack the Ripper who's myth was much more powerful than the original killer. Thus the Jack as a Servant had superpowers that the original killer never had.So basically all you get is an imitation of the legendary Hercules.
>>288872962Why do powerscalers struggle with understanding how stories work?
>>288873853DBZ brainrot.
>>288872995Fuck off, Sandro
>>288872995Well said,me.
>>288872962The plot requires it otherwise he'd be curbstomping everyone
>>288872962In fate only your luck stat matters
>>288873853>how stories work>writer just makes shit up
>>288872962The series repeats over and over again that the Einzbern are a bunch of fucking retards. Heracles by himself is absurdly powerful, probably the most powerful servant that can be summoned, but these imbeciles summoned him as a Berserker to make him more powerful.The thing is that as a Berserker Heracles got nerfed really hard. First it lost his mind, so he was just a brute that rushed towards his enemies and second it put an absurd amount of strain on Illya who should've been using magic and strategy against their enemies but instead was stuck babysitting a giant retard.They got lucky that Heracles was so noble and had such a great willpower that even in his crazy state he wanted to protect Illya, otherwise she would've died long before the War even started.
>>288872962dex builds are better
But he wins plenty of times.
>>288873853if scissors beats paper and paper beats rock, by transitive property scissors must beat rock
>>288872995>>288874029Nasu is essentially a novelist Sandro.Dumb mushroom kept subverting for the sake of subversion.
>>288875081Mankind's oldest jobber...
>>288872995I hate how this is the actual answer.
>>288872962Berserker is the designated jobber class.He's just there to act as a foil for other servants.
>>288872995
>>288872995>>288875654>>288877217It’s crazy how Kengan and Fate have so many things in common.
>>288876419Zero Berserker did pretty well, all things considered
>>288872962orewa supavegetada
>>288872962HACKsu with "the strongest is actually the weakest" and "the weakest is actually the strongest"
>>288872962mindless berserker
>>288877648>underdogs are a big deal in the one series centered around underdogs
power is neither a linear scale nor consistent
>>288872962Because he's designed to lose. His ability is literally 12 additional lives, meaning that story-wise he'll be killed several times.
>>288875020>Heracles by himself is absurdly powerful, probably the most powerful servant that can be summoned, but these imbeciles summoned him as a Berserker to make him more powerful.This excuse doesn't fly so good after Strange Fake. Heracles was summoned as an Archer there, his so-called ideal class. First thing to happen? He jobbed to his own MASTER! Pathetic!
>>288872962Einzbern family are retards.In the VN it is explained that Berserker is literally the worst version of Heracles and he would have run rough shot of liver the grail war but the Einzbern were afraid of being betrayed again.
>>288877279kengan used so many tropes it became the trope and it parodied the trope the trope trope
>>288878078Everything after FSN is an uninspired cashgrab.
>>288878078To be fair to Herc, you had a combination of psychological bombardment via the three CS and lol mud lmao shenanigans with a good touch of autism on top.It's more or less the same reasoning he was summoned as berserker in FSN, the guys that keep summoning him turn out to be total jerks and don't want to be turned into minced meat by their servant
>>288878233Even without corruption Gil would obliterate him on spot. His God Hand is retarded and never should be there to begin with.
>>288878233But then he kept jobbing after that to all kinds of servants and even humans. I guess you could argue that he turned into a different servant but still.
>>288878190except for hollow ataraxiahttps://youtu.be/eLOQp9IWgk4&t=5163>In the end, that pain was the joy of living. I know you don't want to return to that void. This place isn't my wish at all. Angra Mainyu. This world was your dream. If continuing the Holy Grail War was my wish, then these peaceful days were..."
Name ONE berserker that could win a classic fuyuki grail war. No gods or grand servants fuckery either.
>>288879797Mama Raikou
>>288879797None. Berserker was supposed to be a meme jobber class. Mad enhancement as it is supposed to be is never worthwhile, losing all strategy and several NPs just for bigger bonk is retarded. The increased mana requirements of the class also cancel out any appeal it might have for a shitty master.The class was specifically written as a plot device non-character since the original VN's cast was already too large. In later spinoffs like apoc and fgo this concept was discarded. Mad enhancement was totally thrown out to let gacha writers do whatever the fuck they wanted.
>>288879849>The class was specifically written as a plot device non-character since the original VN's cast was already too large. In later spinoffs like apoc and fgo this concept was discarded. Mad enhancement was totally thrown out to let gacha writers do whatever the fuck they wanted.it's funny because the joke of a talking berserker in that one gag manga just became the fucking norm
>>288879849It worked for Lancelot, kind of
>>288878582If only we had a situation in which he was played straight as Archer or Saber to actually see how far those baseline capabilities take him. The punchline is that he's never portrayed like that ever.
>>288872962Because the plot demands thatthe big strong obstacle is defeatedDo not try to find logic in nasushit
>>288879996author fiat courtesy of urotbutcher
Why didn't illya just march up to ryuudou temple and shinjis house and REKT half the cast with him?
>>288872962Because he's not a twink Japanese people can jerk off to.
>>288879996>>288877349Lancelot is also way shittier as BerserkerBerserker is supposed to be used if you drew a shitty Servant, that you can pump them up and minmax them into something usable you might stand a chance with. Applying it to someone powerful is just hobbling yourself.>>288879797Tons of GO ones that don't actually suffer from Mad Enhancement. Raikou being the one that immediately comes to mind from basic prominence
>>288879797Beowulf maybe.
>>288873165Jack defeats hercules in record of ragnarok. What a coincidence
>>288879996It worked in spite of everything, not due to any. And even then the length to which it "worked" is limited in scope.
The Worf Effect
>>288880042Again, he was played straight as Archer in Strange Fake and was arguably even more pathetic than his Berserker form. Meanwhile Cu showed up as a Caster in FGO and mogged everyone without having his signature weapon. Shit's weird.
>>288880531Something something limitations breed creativity and innovation something something gimped by kirei
>>288880531>>288880722also, cu is irish hercules, so it's par for the course
>>288879996Did it though?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGTXTzAvthM
>>288879797Morgan
>>288880773Is Caster Herc the last cope? Trust the plan!
>>288880789This is like the third time in recent history that a fate thread has turned into a pseudo kengan thread
>>288880531That because Caster Cu is Odin
>>288875729The first jobber
>>288880984>just another saberface
>>288881319that's retarded
>>288881671This is the same franchise that has a female King Arthur who falls in love with a Japanese high schooler who defeats Gilgamesh
>>288881319Cu just has an aspect of Odin that let's Odin relay messages through him.
>>288881806still more retarded
>>288873853This is true. In stories, being stronger makes you weaker because it's more narratively compelling to lose.
>>288882914Being stronger creates tribulations for the weaker one, and overcoming said tribulations and growing as a character is one of a compelling writing point.
>>288879797Beowulf because he is sane.
>>288872962Not really used tactically and painted a huge target on himself. Plus he ran into some bad matches.
Assassin herc will be the TECHNIQUE kengan servant everyone's been waiting for
>>288878233>>288880531It actually annoys me that after summoning what is a top tier servant that is Archer Herc in Strange Fake, his master immediately wastes all three of his command spells and pulls out fuyuki grail mud out of his ass on top of that just to make his own servant weaker.Like, what the fuck, if you're investing all that, at least get a powerup out of it.And of course, it conveniently hides what a 'proper' hercules servant would look like by having him get fucked over into an avenger.
>>288883072Would he even qualify for the assassin class?
>>288883150nta but I remember way way back in the era of fsn there was some extra material stating that hercules basically qualified for every class other than caster.On the other hand, at the same time, I'm pretty sure it stated that only the Hassans were qualified for the Assassin class so I always suspected that it was simply a case of Assassin slipping Nasu's mind when he made that statement, or a case of 'nobody would seriously consider Assassin Herc'.But well, if we go by the exact wording of the statement, since Assassin is not Caster, than Hercules can qualify for it.(For the record I don't know shit about extra classes or whatever fgo has introduced since so maybe there's newer information about Hercules potential classes, you'll have to ask someone else on that matter)
>>288879996Lancelot killed his master due to mana drain.
>>288883237he masqueraded as an amazon as the most musclebound faggot in greecesaid leader wasn't a roid monster but a basic bitch saber face
>>288883247All kariyas fault btw
>>288878190Extra works very well and is as straightforward as a Holy Grail War can be. The only criticism I have is that no opponent ever tries to get information on Hakuno's servant to counter it.
>>288883138>wastesIt's not a waste. Doing that and making Herc submissive or at the very least cooperative with him was a precondition. Otherwise Herc would rather kill him or himself than work under mr autist.
>>288883331Well yeah he normally looks like pic related, its his berserker form that roids him out and gives him an Akuma face
>>288883520ah yesyou can totally confuse that for a woman
>>288877349He was gonna get killed by Gil if not for Tokiomi being a retard, that's not doing pretty well
>>288883331>>288883568I think he only wears women's clothes when his second wife buys him as a slave and forces him to swap clothes with her
>>288883395Everyone thought Hakuno was a shitter and Leo had Gawain so he didn’t care
>>288883405I just think that weakening your servant because he's too heroic to be willing to kill women and children to win is a bad move when you can just pursue strategies with your powerful servant that don't involve killing women and children.Or if you're going to gimp your servant because he isn't a ruthless enough psycho that's willing to win at all costs, than at least pursue strategies that take advantage of your Servant have no longer having any morals and not just have him go fight other servants straight up.
>>288872962>Be frontrunner>Everyone has "anti frontrunner" techMany such cases
>>288879797Raikou, not only she is strong but she also gets the fame boost by being in Japan.
>>288883878how
>>288872995Kengan follows me everywhere I go...
>>288883949Her NPs are pretty powerful in Japan.
>>288883809Take a moment to recall where the mana supplying him comes from. What* it come from
>>288881319Why would a Irish hero be the conduit to some Scandinavian god? Shouldn't it have been someone like Dagda, a native god who does have historical ties to Odin?
>>288883976Fame boost is different from the homeland boost
>>288884097He liked the cut of his jib
>>288884097Because Setenta is the son of Lugh and is in some ways him, who has far too similarities to mythological similarities to Odin for it to be a coincidence.
>>288884297>similarities to mythological similarities to Odindamn malfunctioning brain
>>288884097It was probably because he was introduced early on in fgo when they were still stopping themselves from outright summoning gods.
>>288884342jesus fucking christ, why gachafags deserved that godawful ending
>>288872962Gilgamesh + unlimited mana Saber Alter beating him makes sense. Shirou/Rin/Saber fight against him was against all odds but still very cool so who cares. The only asspull is how Archer managed to kill him 6 times.
>>288884650It's kind of funny.But Archer getting those kills really was just Nasu trying to make him look cooler, and that is it. If he really wanted to, he could have just had Shirou/Saber killing all of Berserker's lives Caliburn, since the number was just arbitrary in this case.
>>288883809>I just think that weakening your servant because he's too heroic to be willing to kill women and children to win is a bad moveIf there's one thing I learned from the Nasuverse, it's that most Magus are quite bullheaded. They let their ego shape all of their plans instead of being flexible and will sooner go down with a sinking ship if it means they get to look "good" doing it
If unga bunga was supposed to be the strategy, why was there such a lack of unga bunga? Berserker was kind of kept in the basement in most routes, since Illya hardly took action. Why didn't she unleash the beat stick more if that was the only thing he was good at?
>>288884714Nasu should have at least implied that he used unlimited blade works or something. Have Illya freak out about why an Archer would have a reality marble, as a little teaser too. Archer killing him 6 times in a straight 1v1 is just lol.
Archer can copy the abilities and stats of vastly stronger heroes.He is sandbagging the entire fucking war
>>288884097Dagda would have killed himself
>>288880984Isn't she only crazy strong because of lostbelt shenanigans though?
>>288879797Robo DoomhorseWhenever he's just by himself without his wife he stops jobbing and carriesPickleman is also good
>>288887128She's a skinwalker with the name Morgan, not the actual one.
>>288880789Replace Sandwich with Nasu and green Yan with TakeuchiThis is also exactly what happens with Nasu’s writing
>>288884779Excalibur beam is unga bungaRin's magic kungfu is unga bungaShirou's rushing Gil is unga bungaSaber Alter is unga bunga
>>288872962He takes extra damage from all the other classes
>>288879797Dietrich von Bern
>>288889441Who is that ?
>>288875020>the Einzbern are a bunch of fucking retardsThey tried their best.
>>288878083Herc still could have won the entire war by himself if he wasn't actively nerfed by Ilya, who sealed his Nine Lives so he couldn't use it. He'd only struggle with Gilgamesh, and even then he'd have been able to do much better if he wasn't guarding Ilya in the fight, plus he surpassed his own legend by multiple lives (as in, he was killed an extra 2-3 times if you count) AND broke Enkidu (which should be impossible but he did it anyway) to very nearly rip Gil's head off at the very last moment.And that's his very worst version.>>288878233>>288883138Alcides tells Bazdilot after finding out about the mana-baby batteries that if he hadn't been Avenger'd before finding out, he'd likely have slaughtered Bazdilot on the spot.>>288879797Raikou, Kintoki, Xiang Yu, Morgan, all are possibilities.>RaikouExtremely powerful Berserker, manageable Mad Enhancement (just let her be your mother), Uncrowned Arms Mastery, extreme advantage against Earth/Sky. She'd do great.>KintokiIt's fucking Kintarou, summoned in Japan. He will be off the scale entirely in his heroism and fame boost.>Xiang YuSupercomputer will already know how to win moments from being summoned and will carry out a plan that makes no sense at the time but will succeed.>MorganBullshit-tier magecraft as Queen of Witches, no mana drain because she can get her own, the main problem is handling her personality (she's a bitch).None of them are Grand Servants or gods, all of them could probably clean house in a classic Fuyuki Grail War. There are Summer servant variants who also could but those are probably standout "normal" ones.
>>288889462German King Arthur
>>288889818They tried their best so well they managed to irreversibly and permanently fuck up the holy grail beyond all recognition
>>288889983It will still work to open the door to the Root and restore the Third if they use it. So it works fine.
How did Nasu get away with plagiarizing DMC
>>288890042Arhcer looks more gay than cool and punky here, especially considering how CCC was all about love and hate. Also, Nasu's Dante is Enhance from Tsukihime.
>>288890179>Enhance from Tsukihime.Just strolled in the wiki and wow, he really was DMC1 Dante. Dude had a sword called Avenger (which is a nod to Alastor) and a shotgun.
>>288884367You are larper who don't know shit. The story is still going, retard.
>>288890231>be Nasu>play Bayonetta>create a game full of degenerate sluts almost naked>be Nasu>play WOW without a guild so the entire experience is shitty for you>wants to turn apocrypha into a "solo" mmrpg game>be Nasu>play Dark Souls>change the enterity of your literary universe to fill it with bits of souls lore that you liked>be Nasu>play Blooborne>create the Foreigner class and fill Salem and LB1 with a bunch of bloodborne references>be Nasu>play Danganrompa, Undertale and Final Fantasy iiiii>now you want to end for good your multi billionar world wide known game that feeds your mouth and makes TM relevant because you feel artistic and sadKiritsugu is also just Neo from The Matrix
>>288882967does this guy even get beaten by anyone weaker than him though?
>>288872962BEHOLD, mongrel. The King of Jobbers ! The so called strongest servant who loses to everyone. His potential is unmatched !
>>288873853>>288873885Fate is the epitome is all about power levels and power scaling though. Don't act like you're above shonen just because you have some lackluster sex scenes thrown into the mix.
>>288872962Not the main character, not a waifu. He has no chance.
>>288872962Every adversary with ability where you need to kill them multiple times always ends up being mid boss who jobs to heroes or final boss.
>>288890645>create a game full of degenerate sluts almost nakedWhere?
>>288875943Is there an archive for these edits or I have to subject myself to Kengan threads?
>>288891115The threads for the most part yeah. Although some anons must have their personal collections, it's worth asking see if they got a link to theirs.That aside, picrel is one of my very first keng/a/n edits that I lost a long time ago, only just recently found it, so it would be nice to just have a place that contains all of them.
>>288872995Nasu unironically thinks like this
>>288872995Yes but no. He was super strong, but at the cost of all of his skills + weapons, causing diminishing returns.So essentially, he lost his most powerful tools, he has a mana cost so high Illya couldn't use her better magic and his sanity, all for the a power boost he never needed to begin with.
They should've made Herc a woman too
>>288892506Like this ?
>>288892598Yeah but with an even bigger chest
>>288890249lollmao
>>288892684Based
>>288890249>ESL gachafag
>>288892506They should've made everyone a woman.
>>288872962you never wanna be a strong guy in fiction.
>>288872962He looks like a bootleg kars
