>character says ENGLISH word>the ENGLISH subtitles use a different word
Fucking wasei-eigo lol
It's weird when it's not wasei eigo but they still do it
>>288884104I don't speak JAP, but at the end of this clip Kazuma clearly says NPC twice. He is either calling aqua an NPC, or saying she is worth less than an NPC, or similar. The clip does not translate this at all.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J9xMoz-FIZw
-tension takai-HE IS REALLY ON EDGE GUYS
>Dialogue: "ching chong bing bong... [cut to dramatic reveal/entrance] NAME-KUN!" >Subs: "NAME-KUN, IT WAS YOU ALL ALONG" [cut to dramatic reveal/entrance]Why is changing the sentence structure in a way that ruins the timing of character reveals so common in subs, they couldn't find any other way to structure the sentence?
>>288884561You can solve this problem by listening to the audio
>>288884561Because translators, and AI, are given lines on a sheet of paper to work with. They don't know what's happening on screen and the missing context is sometimes very noticable.
>>288884561Because Japanese sentence structure is almost exactly backwards compared to English. It's where the whole ending sentences with "not!" in old dubs derives from. But as for actually why official subs don't try to wriggle around it when it's important to the timing, the answer is that they can't because they have no idea what's actually on screen.Official subs need to be ready the moment an episode airs so in order to minimise the risk of leaks most companies will send over only the script and give the translator no idea of what's actually on screen. Surprisingly common issue across different media too. Back in the day video game localisation teams (especially in Europe) were sometimes given only a list of terms with no context and would end up with mistakes like assuming the wrong meaning of "counter" and VAs dubbing games would at most be shown the waveform of the original line but nothing about the scene itself.
>>288884305that's funny. he's saying 返品して (return to store)
>>28888518>return is a forklift and 3 boxes Silly language
>>288885070apparently one of the reasons why the FFX dub was so goofy at times was because they could not exceed the length of the original voice line, so if it was a mouthful of a line they had to say it quickly or get literally sped-up in post
>>288885253That's the reasoning behind some localization choices in Ace Attorney too, in addition to some names some lines and jokes were changed to make sure it fit in the text box and had the same duration as the original jap text.
>>288884104Haruhi looks like the 67 loli here
>>288885251>>288885178But it does sound kinda like NPC if you're a baka gaijin
>>288884170lmao
>>288884561>ching chong bing bong.you know very well that's not how japanese sounds like to one who doesn't understand it
>>288884104either actually learn japanese and turn off the subtitles or fuck off already you whiny bitch>>288884271it not being an actual wasei-eigo word doesn't guarantee that the usage of the cool foreign word the character uses has any relation to the native usage of the word in any way
>>288884104>watching gun gale online> first episode>M says rappelling>subs say abseilingIt's probably that the people subbing don't recognize the word so they look it up on google and use the first synonym that pops up
>English dub doesn’t have subtitles when Japanese text is on a blackboard or sign>English dub has engrish but doesn’t differentiate when theyre speaking as a foreigner or talking normally
>>288884104>Character says Ohio>Subtitles say helloGets me every time. Do they not realize how great the state is?
>>288884170kek
>>288885070Happens with Japanese translations too. Characters will constantly switch speech style (and often use extremely unfitting ones, like little girls saying ore and buff dudes saying desu wa) throughout the game because the translator was just given a bunch of dialogue without being told who the speaker was.
>>288884561
>>288888123
>>288886473Teki teki teki desu ka
>>288884170unfunny and forced
>>288884170funny and effortless
>>288884104Japanese will say sexy but mean cool.It's necessary to change their misusages.
>>288885070Yes, most of us on /a/ know this, now why isn't japanese sentence structure maintained?No one wants rubba dub dub thanks for the grub.A localizers only job is to rape the source material as hard as possible so that it doesn't feel like a foreign media.Most people want their media to reflect the creators intentions.
>>288888381No it isn't, shit like that helps you understand japanese culture and how the author views these concepts.If a mangaka uses sexy to mean cool, it should be maintained.
>>288888381
Question: Why don't dubbers save the dialogues they use to dub the anime? Wouldn't that be useful and appropriate?One day, I tried to contact a voice actor about this kind of request, but they just ignored me.
Anya and "I'm in a pinch/this looks like a pinch".I don't get why they take it out.
>>288888525Save it in what sense? It's contract work so legally it belongs to the studio. You want something to practice with?
>>288884104Are you a dumb monolingual burger? This isn't a concept that's exclusive to Japanese, you know.
>>288884104Character says "mai bruzza"Subtitles say "waga no otouto"
"Bitch" being the equivalent to "whore" surprised me when I first saw it used in anime. How did that even happen? Is "bitch" just easier to pronounce?
>>288889291Isn't it kinda used in the whorish way in porn titles and such? I can see it spreading through that
>>288889291because the need to differentiate between 'whore (derogatory)' and 'whore (honorable noble geisha, beacon of nihingo culture)'
>>288884170this shit does annoy me. I understand they think english is cool or whatever and that's great but you'd think a people as particular as the japanese would make sure they were using english words CORRECTLY when they add them to their lexicon. it's like they have their own version of english that's distinct from actual english that only japanese speakers can understand.
>>288889354Just American problemsIt's not enough that your language is being loaned all over the world, you want to forbid them from making ANY changes?That's rich coming from the people who butchered the British language.
>>288889354Did you know that every single language in the world does this?
>>288889377they don't get to make changes because it's not their fucking language
>>288889354>>288889387they raped hanzi causing japanese to be non-phonetic and you think they have any respect for western languages?
>>288888299pera pera pera pera pera
>>288889377>That's rich coming from the people who butchered the British language.How?
>>288888444>Most people want their media to reflect the creators intentions.You'd be surprised to learn that most normalfags don't actually give a shit about the creator's intent, and just want to have a fun vidya to play or an exciting anime to watch
>>288885251木 means tree森 means forest女 means woman姦 means noisy
>>288889291It comes from "bitch in heat."
>>288889387I agree, we should go back to only using German Vocabulary instead of raping Latin, French, Greek, and Scandinavian.
>>288889377*fixedGo shove your beans and toast up your assthat's right, I said it, up your ASS
>>288889498fr*nch is just Latin anyways. We should speak that.
>>288885070i heard yoda uses japanese grammar structure
>>288889632Yoda's grammar resembles german more than japanese, especially when there are multiple verbs in a sentence. If it's japanese then Yoda will be unintelligible to english speakers.
>>288889632Yoda and Japanese both put verbs at the end of each sentence but it doesn't go further than that. I wonder what japanese yoda sounded like.
>>288889438>mfw Americans call “rooty-tooty point-and-shooties” “guns”
>>288888171funnily enough that's also how I talk sometimesClosest things in english to comapare it to is maybe Yoda, but imagine it said casually
>>288889599We used to all speak Latin, and then we started to all speak English
>>288889471kek
>>288889632Yoda either uses English Word order (SVO) with fucked up syntax, or he uses OSV word order because OSV word order happens to be the rarest word order across all of the world's languages making him sound totally weird to just about everyone listening to him regardless of native language. Japanese word order is SOV by the way, but I'm pretty sure Yoda doesn't use SOV>Wars not make one greatSVO (Wars do not -> Wars not)>Away put your weaponVO (subject implied, and verb swapped with positional)>Truly wonderful the mind of a child isOSV>Afraid you will beOSV>The greatest teacher failure isOSVI haven't written any of the normal English sentence examples, but half the time he'll just speak in normal english sentences, then sometimes he'll use an English sentence with weird grammar, and the rest of the time he'll use OSV
>>288884104Wait... is she doing the 67 thing?
>>288889755
>>288889856I hate children so goddamn much
>>288885070>Send over storyboards/animatics>Problem solvedZERO fucking excuse.
>>288889989The Japanese are intentionally making English dubs worse out of spitepretty based if you ask me
>>288888472I'm not gonna defend retarded localizers who invent fanfiction in their translations but if you are just transcribing the Japanese directly to English you will end up with complete nonsense, especially with wasei-eigo.Wasei-eigo words mostly mean stuff that is broadly similar to the English term but different enough that it doesn't make sense if you were just to take it as such. "Apaato" is an apartment (building) simple enough, so you'd be correct to assume that "mansion" マンション is also a type of housing, however it is also an apartment building. The difference between the 2? In an apaato you pay rent while mansions are bought."Arubaito" mostly shortened to "baito" comes from the German "Arbeit" (work) but specifically only means part-time or irregular work, never full time job because that's "shigoto".In a lot of these cases taking the Japanese words as is would get the meaning across but it would also be subtly wrong as in the examples above or could straight up mean something entirely different. Viking "baikingu" is an AYCE buffet and consent コンセント is an electrical socket.You've also got stuff that kind of makes sense in English but is also just a clunky or weird expression that nobody uses. The fact that "cunning" カンニング means cheating makes sense to an English speaker but it also isn't something anyone would ever say. Same with stuff like "fight", "don't mind" (donmai), "guts" or as this anon >>288888628 said "pinch". These kind of make sense but also aren't really natural expressions. Telling someone "fight" before a math exam feels silly and most people would probably just wish you good luck. "Pinch" is the only one that's actually a proper English phrase and not some stilted nonsense, but I think that one just has fallen out of use with time. Someone running late for their bus would probably just say "oh shit" rather than "I'm in a pinch", and even then I think "in a pickle" is more popular nowadays as Google search shows.
>>288889438Dearest creature in creationStudy English pronunciation
>>288889881i hope one day you remember your own childhood
>>288890104I was talking to a Japanese person the other day and he started talking about "pierrot" and I had no idea what he was talking about until I suddenly realized that the Japanese word for "clown" is the french word "pierrot." I also had a brief argument with him as to how "allergy" is pronounced アレルギー or アラジー, and he got really confused as to why the Japanese say ゼリー when the English say "jelly"
>>288889291I can confirm it's 100% slut or whore and not bitch as we typically use it for someone who is stuck-up, unpleasant or unlikable.The waters do get a bit muddied because especially in porn they will also use terms like mesubuta (female pig) or mesuinu (female dog, literally the original meaning of bitch) for a slutty, sexually submissive or receptive girl which we also would call a slut. In my opinion "bitch in heat" works for some expressions, but a standalone "bitch" ビッチ should never really be translated as bitch but rather slut.>>288889347There are also terms for whores that are less flattering but in my experience the term really just refers to people taking money for sex and not how we think of it as someone being slutty or an easy lay rather than a professional whore.On the topic of porn and such I hate that "letting it out (inside)" has become an acceptable translation in hentai when that is an expression no English speaker would ever use for cumming, ejaculating, etc. I get that it's the literal meaning of the words in Japanese but it makes 0 sense in English. It's just the kind of amateurish translation you see where people translate the individual words rather than the phrase or meaning. Seen people translate "nodo ga kawaita" (I'm thirsty) as "My throat is parched/dry" and that shit pisses me off immensely.
>>288890199I do think it's kinda weird how Japanese doesn't have a single word for "hungry" or "thirsty" and that you have to use a phrase in order to say that you are in fact hungry or thirsty腹減った and 喉乾いた
>>288884170And this shit is the reason why AI translation can never work
>>288890242AI will eventually get there but I don't know if LLMs will.
>>288890242You can teach a robot the correct translations, it's really not that hard. DeepL has a dictionary feature that lets you do specifically this, and virtually all CAT tools have allowed you to do it for close to 30 years at this point. Consumer grade LLMs are seriously behind the times.
>>288889354>yes, english would never do tha->*looks at name of board*
>>288884104Depends on the word because the Japs have what's known as wasei-eigo which are loanwords that might not share the meaning of the original. Like "mansion" does not mean mansion to them, it means apartment/condo. Or "Arbeit"(work in German) means part-time work specifically when a nipponjin says it.
>>288890366The broader linguistic term is "Pseudo-loanword" which are just loanwords that don't have the same meaning as in the original language
>>288890377The concept in general is called False friend
>>288889291It refers to how female dogs are slutty, so the woman is a slut.
>>288890391The proper categorization is "word"
>>288890391isn't False Friend when two words from different languages sound similar but are actually just total coincidences?
>>288890418 (me)sorry, I'm wrong, I'm thinking of False Cognates
>>288889291We use it in a similar way, as in son of a bitch is accusing ur mum of sleeping around.
>>288890366You also get Japanese words like yakimochi which can be the snack, or refer to being jealous. Context matters.
>>288890197アレルギー is how you proncounce the word in German which is most likely how it entered the Japanese language, as with a lot of medical terms in Japan
>>288890439That's just plain old idiomatic expressions>we're two peas in a pod
>>288888628>>288890104Pinch used to be used in that way in English too, it's just not as commonplace nowadays.
>>288890418>False friend words are words in two or more languages that look similar (homographs) or sound similar (homophones), but differ significantly in meaning.>English and Japanese also have diverse false friends, many of them being wasei-eigo and gairaigo words.I thought you were right so I looked it up. I'm more confused than when I started, but I still think you got it right.
>>288890453IonIdeaVirusWinkers (car turn signals)EnergieZamen (semen)GelGaze (gauze)These (thesis)Thema (theme)TraumaNihilismKarisma (Charisma)HieroglyphePest (black plague)Mazochismus (masochism)Mœbius SchrödingerLeber (liver)Gummi (gummy)Randoseru (randsel (a type of backpack worn by soldiers (apparently)))Walkure (valkyrie)Butan Octan MethanPropanVaelinMorphinKoffein (caffeine)XenonHeliumDuraluminVitaminKolagen (collagen)Genom (genome)Vakzin (Vaccine)All pronounced the German way and not the English way. Very annoying trying to talk to a japanese person and getting the pronunciation wrong because I can't figure out whether they use the English pronunciation or the German pronunciation
>>288890218Yeah, I agree and it's honestly a very interesting linguistic topic how something can be an adjective in one language but a whole phrase in another.I studied translation at university (Japanese-German) and one of the weirdest ones is actually a very basic word 好き. I think the way my professor explain it was that in English or German we actively like something and it's a verb while in Japanese it's an intrinsic quality that something possesses to be liked by us (but not an adjective). Which is why the expression in Japanese is an outlier in 〇〇が好き.None of these are really exclusive to Japanese though but we are normally used to dealing with languages that are much more closely related so it's more notable. On average Japanese is very concise though, and expresses things way shorter than in English or German. My translations would often be double in length in German than the original Japanese if I wanted to be accurate which is also one of many reasons why translating is difficult. You might be limited in text space on something like a YuGiOh card or have limited time when dubbing something and the Japanese is a short sentence while the translation is way longer.At it's core translations will always lead to a loss of information even when done properly because the words or concepts might simply not exist in the target language. This is also true for translating something into Japanese when they simply don't have stuff like plural or future tense.Translations really are a tough balancing act between preserving meaning, readability, and so many other things. God forbid you want to preserve rhymes or melody in something like a song.I'll finish with a fun English loan word in German which is "Handy" (cell phone) where most English speakers would probably raise their eyebrows if you told them you recently got a Handy for 200€.
>>288890509I was just thinking about 好き right before you posted, yeah. I thought that too when I was first learning Japanese.
>>288890497Yeah like I said, that one is one of the few that is a proper English expression, but it simply isn't used much anymore. It wouldn't surprise me to read it in a book but I don't think I've heard anyone use that expression in the last 15 years.Rather than being wrong it would just feel out of place to me, especially if the anime character is a young teenage girl it would be strange for her to use a rather old expression. Also the superlative 大ピンチ "big pinch" doesn't work in English.
>>288890507>VaelinVaselinI'm gay and I suck cocksWhile I'm here I might as well wikidump the Dutch words in Japanese too, because these are the real fucked up onesTyfus チフス typhusExtract エキス extractGlas ガラス glassGom ゴム gum (rubber, like a rubber band)Koffie コーヒー coffeeKok コックcookPomp ポンプ pumpCyan シアンcyanKameleon カメレオン chameleonSchop スコップ shovelTinkuur チンキ tinctureDe デッキ deck of cardsPincet ピンセット tweezersAzie アジア AsiaDollar ドル dollar (currency)Pond ポンド pound (currency and weight)Ons オンス ounce (weight)Marmot モルモット Guinea PigJudea ユダヤ jewsHok フック hookOrgel オルゴール music boxThey even took RivierPaard which means Hippo, but literally translates to "River Horse," which the japanese calqued into 河馬 (カバ) (river horse)
>>288890585you gotta admit, 大ピンチ is very funny
>>288890609The first time I heard and recognized that word I busted out laughing. It's so perfectly japanese.
>>288884104>>the ENGLISH subtitles use a different wordYeah, I can understand that for some words. Like "yankee" becoming "delinquent" or "bitch" becoming "slut". Idk jap, but I seen some words where the "english" word has a different meaning that the english homonym for that word.
>>288890509Yeah suki is just expressing a state of fondness relative to something.みさとが好きだ = Misato is dear (to me)It's funny because they do use the actual verb for stuff like 彼は好かれている and then there is also 好む
>>288889839based and knowing george toyboy lucas has no worldbuilding or linguistics chops-pilled
>>288890673like how スタイル actually means "physique" and not "fashion"
>>288890687they exist, but they're much less commonly used than just 好き, like how in English we don't often say "Misato is dear to me"
>>288890391Loanwords can be false friends but it's not the only reason. Words can sound similar yet have diffferent meanings because of various reasons, the languages might be related but the meanings drifted apart over time or even complete coincidence.>>288890418 >>288890432 described the opposite (false cognates) which are words that look to be related because they share a meaning and sound similar but it's by complete coincidence.>>288890499>I'm more confused than when I started, but I still think you got it right.False friend - looks similar but different meaning for various reasons, including loanwords:English embarassed, Spanish embarazada (pregnant) - coincidenceEnglish bitch, Japanese ビッチ "bicchi" (slut) - loanwordLatin gymnasium "a place for learning" + "a place for exercise" > English gym (sports), German Gymnasium (school) - related (cognates)English name, Japanese 名前 "namae" (name) - pure coincidence, not related (false cognates)
>>288890509Japanese tends to have a higher syllable count but a lower character count, and also a higher spoken syllable count per minute. Technically the "syllables" are actually called "mora" but who's keeping track?
>>288884104They use English words incorrectly sometimes.
>>288890901hey, we use english words incorrectly sometimes too!
>SHINE, BAKA!No way, idiot!
>>288890905>riajuu bakuhatsu shiro
bump
Umamusume always finds a way to rephrase the sentence when someone says umamusume because they don't want to commit one way or the other if the rest of the globe uses the Japanese term or if they're literally just called "horse girls"
>>288889755>mfw an american takes his rooty tooty point and shooty to the teachyhall and lead-boinks all the kiddlydums
>>288889354this isnt unique to japanese, germans call mobile phones "handy" and english weebs call battle manga "shonen"
>>288888171Shouldn't the particles be treated as case endings in inflective languages like say Latin?They mark the grammatical function of a noun, so isn't that line of thinking approximately correct?
>>288890905the classic
>>288889291This is one of the rare cases where Japan is using the word correctly and you are wrong in your usage.A bitch is a female dog.Thus calling a woman a female dog implies that she's a loose woman who sleeps with anyone and anything.
>>288889471>姦 means noisyIt actually means rape and sex.青姦 <- blue + the three woman kanji = sex outdoors
>>288891412sometimes particles act like inflections, sometimes they act like positionals, sometimes they're connectors, sometimes they're conditionalsを and が act like inflectionsは is a copulaと and か are conjunctionsに can be fucking anything it wants to beなどなど
>>288891466it actually means many things all at once
>>288891412that's the neat part. everything is inflectionable in japanese, this is what happens when 90% of the language's vocabulary are noun
>>288891461Bitches whine non-stop when they're in heat. It works in english, too.
>>288891466>[KANJI] only means [ONE THING]lol
>>288891684I, as a connoisseur of Japanese media have only ever encountered the kanji in the context of sex and rape. This is not because my sample size is limited to erotic media, it is because the kanji itself only means that thing, yes.Obviously. How dare you doubt that?
>>288889768I'm pretty sure Yoda was based on how Japanese people actually talk as far as Lucas understood it. He did the same with the Trade Federation aliens later, sounding like Japanese guys. Jedi literally comes from Jidai-Geki.
>>288891474>に can be fucking anything it wants to beFucking truth.
>>288884170if I understand it and somebody else doesn't it means I'm superiorso I say let them keep doing it
>>288889989Some American then posts that on Xitter and it gets a 100k views and then you have to commit seppuku.
>>288889291Probably comes from rap music, where the terms are basically interchangeable.
>>288890360DeepL is the translation Great Satan.
>>288891430
>>288889354English speakers use the term Entrée to describe the main course of a meal.
this is a "hotchikisu"
>>288888444>now why isn't japanese sentence structure maintainedBecause the sentence isn't in japanese anymore?
>>288889377Retard, the British have done far more to butcher the English language than we have, they can't even fucking pronounce R's most of the time.
>>288889498Ðis, but earnest
>>288884104>>character says ENGLISH word>>the ENGLISH subtitles use a different wordIt's not just english words.Sometimes, a character says senpai but the subtitles say their name instead.
>>288889354>he says 5 minutes before reading a "hentai" about a "tycoon" who sells "söy" sauce riding a "rickshaw", on his Mo"zilla" Firefox
>>288890507other elements too like>Natatorium>Karium
