>the world is full of suffering that I created, therefore everyone has to sleeplmao Naruto writing is so bad
I have troubles sleeping...sometimes I can't sleep for many days in a row. Madara was finally going to fix this for me but NinjaJesus just had to stop him. I HATE NinjaJesus.
It's bad. I hate how over the last 5 years, retards and zoomers have tried to revision Naruto as being good. Anyone with an IQ above temp level said it sucked back then, and the ending was bad in 2015.
Why do blacks and browns love this IP?
>>289347114Like everything was sunshine and rainbows back when he was growing up. >>289347195Like what we got afterwards was any better.
>>289347114When Pain said his Pain was greater than my Pain, I literally cried
>>289347403>the sequel to this solid shit is liquid diarrhea, therefore the original solid shit was good
Madara being a warlord and battle autist who decided to be responsible and find a way to end conflict forever is pretty based.
As a One Piece Chad I'm sick of Narucucks bringing up their slop when something in One Place happens and they try to relate it to Naruto. "Like this character from Naruto" "So and so did this in One Piece like in Naruto". Fuck off faggots.
>>289347228It's slop for retards
>>289347494>I'm going to make up for all these people that I've ruthlessly killed just to flex by forcing literally everyone else into a tree for all eternity against their willSo responsible.
>>289347521One piece sucks after marineford, naruto sucks after the pain assault arch.
>>289347624Every post time-skip arc is better than any arc in Naruto. Every island and thing they've done plays into the story. Naruto has not direction and garbage world building.
>>289347624>One piece sucks after marinefordTRVKE
Orochimaru already did Madara's plan to the point the plot stops once he's out of the picture.
>>289347114his plan was such a good deal they had to retcon it into being bad
>>289347228It's mostly blacks. Browns have better taste and they like DBZ more.
>>289347521Narutards were exiled to gaia for a reason.
dogshit for tourists
>>289347114>my brother died, my friend betrayed me, I failed to create peace. I knew something had to be done with this cruel world. That's why Infinite Tsukuyomi is salvation.>anyway TENGAI SHINSEI TWO FUCKING METEORS>Let me test my abilities on these poor rando shinobi
>>289347451Me on the other hand laughed because of the animation in that scene. But I also cried because I couldn't stop laughing.
>>289347114It's a chud thing. You wouldn't get it
>>289347885Hes also a battle autist
>>289348132He's just a battle outist.
>>289347885Gaara attacked him first, it was self defense
Naruto Part 1>>>>>>>>>Anything One Piece
>>289348132More like just an autist.
>>289348317He's another enemy edo summon they've been fighting for the last 12 hours. If he wasn't going to fight them then he didn't make his intentions clear enough.
I was watching Naruto videos back in 2015-2016 on youtube. I remember thinking that all those youtubers worshipping Madara was the cringiest shit imaginable
>>289348132A weasley little hypocrite. He loves battle, blood and war, but got his feelings hurt when someone close to him died. Then he just continues handing out pain and suffering to thers, unchanged by the pain he has suffered. Zero introspection. He doesn't give a fuck about others. >>289348386 might be true
>>289348486Expecting far too much clarity and sanity from a child soldier of the warring times that had to bury all his family, who's also from a clan known as emotional schizos
>>289347114>that I created Retard.
>>289348604Hashirama and Tobirama weren't as autistic and emotionally unaware as he was when they went through the same thing he did.
>>289348486Orochimaru had the same motivation. His Japanese was more about the fragility of life and wanting to live long. Madara's Japanese is very controlled
>>289349031>Orochimaru's japanese>Madara's JapaneseWat
>>289347114Would he still be going through if he woke up in an era of peace?
>>289347521hackda literally introduced one of the naruto aliens you dunce
>>289349083>something something humans will start warring again in the future Probably, yeah.
>>289349031>His Japanese was more about the fragility of life and wanting to live long. Madara's Japanese is very controlledAh, that explains why characters keep eating riceballs. To be more Japanese.Naruto, even as a blonde haired, blue eyed yankee, was able to be even more Japanese through his love of ramen.
>>289349070>>289349327I mean Orochimaru switches between high functioning autistic to a sperg who has no idea how to speak to other people. The only time he's a normal person is around Jiraya and the Third Hokage. He's very immature in part 2. Madara is excited for battle and in control of the situation despite treating people like a fire emblem game
>>289349131There's no alien's in One Piece and the shit Enel found on the moon predates Narushart ass pull.
>>289347114>>the world is full of suffering that I createdBefore he was born people already were killing each other for centuries
>>289347114Boruto was a 5D chess move to make Naruto look like a masterpiece in retrospect.
>>289347114That's the point. He isn't supposed to make sense. That's why nobody in the verse agrees with him.
>>289347451He never said that
>>289347114>that I createdwhat?
>>289349637>n-no, the point is that he's supposed to be a retardLmao
>>289349637Madara didn't create the world's suffering, his plan makes sense.
Bait thread
>>289349742Naruto has been hated here for 20 years new fag.
He goes to great lengths to spell out that suffering is inevitable due to the nature of, not just the world, but literally reality, "part of causality", "for a victor to exist there also needs to be a loser" etc. (Hardly new ideas in philosophy and the whole "illusion but it's bliss" thing isn't new to fiction either but anyway)There is a moment where Obito asks him what he is to Madara, and Madara says Obito is simply Madara. He explains that "Madara is he who rejects the world", and as a tool for Madara, enacting his plan, he was Madara.Putting aside whether he was right "if Kaguya didn't exist" - He essentially viewed himself as someone acting on pure logic. He did not give a fuck about other people, he was the most Sasuke-Kiritocore detached character in the entire verse and but that's precisely why he could enact the plan purely because "it's right" and not needing emotional copes like Obito. And that's also why he could never be talked out of it which is why he is the only villain to never be talk-no-jutsu'd (technically Oro didn't, but he still became a good boy because of Sasuke). Conversely, it's why it literally took Naruto a mere 5 minutes to talk Nagato and Obito out of their bullshit because they were running on pure emotion, and all he had to do was tug on their heartstrings a bit.However, the twist is that Black Zetsu baited him into it by rewriting the stone tablet, he didn't just lay out the Moon Eye plan there but specifically insinuated that the world would be saved that way, which implanted a messiah complex into Madara which was ultimately the emotional motivation for him. So in truth he wasn't just doing it because he thought he was right after all, but because he wanted to be "the savior". This isn't really spelled out but I think it's obvious nontheless.
>>289349520imu is an alien
>>289350079>He essentially viewed himself as someone acting on pure logic.That's not true. He was openly willing to stroke his own ego by proving to others how much stronger he is than them. >He did not give a fuck about other people, he was the most Sasuke-Kiritocore detached character in the entire verse aOrochimaru fits that description better. Madara still wanted to save the people of the world through his plan, Orochimaru genuinely didn't give a fuck. >And that's also why he could never be talked out of it which is why he is the only villain to never be talk-no-jutsu'dBut he did give up on it and admitted Hashirama was right after the Kaguya fight ended.>Conversely, it's why it literally took Naruto a mere 5 minutes to talk Nagato and Obito out of their bullshit because they were running on pure emotion,No, that's just shit writing.
>>289350124>Imu is headcanon Everything in the void century flashback will actually tie into everything Oda has set up from the pre time-skip. So no.
>>289350079Rare high effort good post.
>>289350915You're a retarded samefag.
>>289350997Why are you so mad?
>>289347114I laughed when this retard was keked by the alien girl, what shit writing>>289347811>Better taste>Unironically says DBZLmfao, you’re the same as them beaner, no one can tell the difference
>>289351041Toriyama is a legend and one of the greatest storyboarders. Kishimoto is a pretty bad mangaka.
Naruto doesn't try to be well-written; Kishimoto can't write, he only knows how to draw. The editors couldn't do much either, and stretching the IP so much caused even more damage to the writing. If you're looking for literary merit in a battle shonen, you're in the wrong place.
>>289351268The whole thing that sets Naruto apart from others is how it's more pretentious and on the surface more thoughtful than other battle shonen like Dragonball or One Piece. That's why it's sad how retarded the writing is when you actually look at it.
>>289348973>>>From a clan known to be emotional schizos
>>289351268I don't know if I'd call it "literary merit" but there's a difference between well written (even excellently written) battle shonen and badly written ones.
>>289349131>>289349520all stolen from Kaguya. Who cares, Naruto and One Piece, both are trash
>>289347114If Infinite Tsukuyomi was Obito's plan and he never had anything to do with MadaraNaruto: W-What?! There are two Madaras?! If you're Madara... then who's the masked guy?>Madara: ...Two Madaras? Explain yourself, Kabuto.Kabuto: The man who declared this war calls himself Madara Uchiha. He hides behind a mask. I saw through his deception.>Madara: Hmph. So someone has been borrowing my name. What game is this impostor playing?Kabuto: He seeks the remaining two tailed beasts. He intends to revive the Ten-Tails and cast the Infinite Tsukuyomi upon the world. He claims it will create everlasting peace, a world where everyone lives within a dream.>Madara: A dream?...Pathetic. So he would rather flee reality than conquer it.>Peace born from illusion is nothing more than surrender. Conflict is the proof of life. Desire, struggle, victory, defeat! Those are what drive mankind forward. Strip humanity of those things, and you are left with livestock, not people. He calls that peace?Kabuto: "...!">Madara: Kabuto... are you aiding this man?Kabuto: Hardly. Our interests merely align for the moment. I'm using him to achieve my own objectives.>Madara: As expected. Then hear me, all shinobi! The man hiding behind that mask is no Madara Uchiha! He is a coward wearing another man's name because his own carries no weight! If he seeks to steal the will of every living soul... then he stands against me as much as he stands against you. I have no interest in preserving your lives. But your will... your ambition... your hatred... those belong to you alone. No impostor has earned the right to take them.>Now, Kabuto...Tell me where this pretender is. I will remind him exactly whose name he has stolen.
This guy was a literal retard.
>>289351268Bullshit. Unlike a lot of other shallow battle shounen series, there are clear themes and topics it tries to seriously tackle, with various characters communicating personal philosophies about human life, society, and the world that they've arrived at through their life experience, then coming into conflict with others who hold to contradictory views, and having that serve as the backdrop of their battles, taking them from mere contests of strength and will into something more. It fails spectacularly at making those philosophies and conflicts coherent. Kishimoto bit off way more than he could chew.
>>289347114He was unironically the good guy trying to end the cycle of samsara. His ways of going on about it were just ultra evil retardation.
>>289347114zzz
>>289352229coherency is a western thing probably the greeks or something that really started doing this. If you understand this the rest of the world suddenly makes a lot more sense. This is why the rest of the world feels less sentient. It's not even strictly wrong anyways, there is too much of this false sense of logic in the west, although it is useful, least of all in art and these subjective things though
>>289351164Toriyama barely remembered what happened in his own manga. If it wasn’t about meatheads hitting the other harder, your attention span wouldn’t last. You’re right about the latter though.
>>289351458Kaguya invented nothing but how to not pull a final villain tier ass pull. Imu's leagues better placed in his story. Cope cuck.
>>289352229Just because it had an interest concept doesn't excuse how utterly dogshit the execution was.
>>289352500i liked the original dragonball and it was a great adventure story easily one of the cornerstones/cannon of the medium and of historical significance. DBZ is pulpy and stupid but at least it was fun entertainment.
>>289352551I said as much. It raises all kinds of high-brow concepts, then fails to make any of them compelling beyond the surface level.
>>289347114>UUUH IM BILLIONAIRE AND CAN DO GOOD, BUT INSTEAD ILL SUCK ON SOME CROOKED RUSSIAN AND JEWISH DICK AND MAKE EVERYONE STARVE FOR MORE MONEYlmao, real life writing is so bad
Funnily enough, the one who had the closest thing to a coherent and realistic vision was Pain. It was fucked up and evil (warfare concluding in nuclear genocide every few generations followed by decades of world peace), but he admits to the limitations (it being in human nature to forget and minimize the pain of the past, thus dooming it to repeating that pain to relearn the lesson), and even raises the possibility that he could be wrong by inviting alternative answers. If there was a better way, he was open to it. Madara and Obito are utterly uninterested in alternatives. They just wanna be done with the world and leave it at that. It's boring and uninteresting as fuck, and doesn't challenge anyone or anything. Not saying Nardo's solution is good or anything, though, as again, it's well beyond Kishi's ken to write anything resembling a plausible solution to this problem, and it only works because he makes it so.
>>289347114>The night has fallen>Billions must sleep
>>289347114>this reality is flawed and creates endless suffering>fuck this reality>a beautiful illusion, lie, is better than ruthless reality>so let's replace reality with a lieThis is a universal theme running throughout human history.
>>289352500>Toriyama barely remembered what happened in his own mangaYou're not entirely right: it's definitely true Toriyama cared a LOT more about his car than his manga universe (which arguably helped his artistic skill grow imo but that's another debate), but I think it's wrong to say Toriyama misremembered his manga back then during serialization. If you pay attention to the way the dialogues are written, say, during the Saiyans and Namek arcs, you'll see that Toriyama actually writes dialogues based on the characters limited knowledge and lets them make mistakes according to that, in a way that's quite precise and shows he actually remembers a good amount of details. It shows a surprising level of care even though Toriyama didn't seem that way: was it merely intuition or talent? Who knows, but it's a far cry from Kishimoto's writing where fucking Deidara is going to tell Sai (???) that he's no Sasuke replacement (????) because the readers/Naruto know about that Sasuke replacement concept so Deidara should know too, lmao>>289352594>DBZ is pulpy and stupidNot in the manga. it does have weaker arcs like Cell but overall I'd wager Dragon Ball peaked at Saiyans/Namek in almost every way, writing included.
>>289347114The suffering was not created by Madara, not even the Uchiha, not even Indra or black zetsu. All the problems originate from Hagoromo being a horrible father figure that couldn't raise his two sons for shit. He even fucked up with each of their reincarnations, including Naruto and Sasuke.>hurr durr take these skibidi power ups boys and duke it out. peaceIt was only by some stroke of miracle that Naruto and Sasuke did not kill each other.
>>289353400>All the problems originate from HagoromoNah >>289350079>due to the nature of, not just the world, but literally reality, "part of causality", "for a victor to exist there also needs to be a loser" etc. (Hardly new ideas in philosophy and the whole "illusion but it's bliss" thing isn't new to fiction either but anyway)
>>289353029war in this way is dysgenic asf so he's a retard. If the problem is that we are too peaceful because we are postheroic, we are peaceful because war became involuntary and too destructive. So just destroying too much doesn't have this tonic effect you get from historical wars that were smaller scale and voluntary/built the country back
>>289353370>weaker arcs like Cell
>>289353348It isn't, you retard.
>>289353610He's right, Cell arc is genuinely shit. People who complain about Buu but act like Cell was good are genuine retards.
>>289353610I like some parts of it but it's quite disjointed and not in a great way. Made the cast feel stupid and weak in a way Buu didn't (despite everyone fucking up once or twice in that arc too) because Buu was funny.>>289353624>the same guy calling people retards and samefags OVER AND OVER AND OVER itt while also refusing to say anything of substanceYou're not subtle. I don't understand what's your end goal though.
>>289353666>>the same guy calling people retards and samefagsWhat the fuck are you taking about?
>>289353754You're not subtle.
>>289347114>villain does bad things, news at 11Water is wet
>>289353754It's a seething madarafag who keeps making stupid posts and everyone calls him a retard for it, so he keeps saying everyone who replies to him is a samefag.
>>289347114The war arc killed all my enjoyment of this series
>>289353888I'm glad it did, now you know how I felt when shitpooden started.
>>289353888yep >>289347713
>>289352504I wasn't talking about Naruto, dumb fuck.And One Piece is trash, seethe about your sunk/cost manga
>>289353888this is true for everyone save the very dumbest naruto fans.
