>People complain about boring, one-note, unexpressive, overpowered, mary sue women >For some reason end up loving this characterWhat gives?
>>290315063Are these people in the room with us right now?
>>290315240More like the entire internet for the past decade, but yet for some reason, when it's Japanese media doing it, it's okay.
>>290315240The entire show feels so artificially constructed to suck her off at every opportunity.>Woahhh these demon monsters mimic people, but they're also super emotionless and have horns so you can tell it's them from a mile away!>Ignore the fact that humans had an entire war with them which nearly made humanity go extinct, they'll just let them in their towns with zero hesitation!>Frieren is the heckin badass chuuni that sees through all the bullshit and can heckin tell the demons are lying!This is so fucking forced and stupid.
Bump
>>290315063hags are an exception
>>290315063she's cute, 3dpd are not.
>>290315063Just my opinion. I think it is because she is intentionally and blatantly written that way. Specifically, how she interacts with her two squads and how that boring one-note unexpressive personality aspect actually harms her as an individual when she looks back on it. It is literally the plot. The purpose of the show is not so much "look at my overpowered OC", rather it is more about her growing in her personal life, learning to enjoy the present, and valuing the people around her. I think it works in this one particular case ONLY because she is clearly written with that in mind.Freiren is shown to need months to learn, whereas Mary Sue characters just *are* good at everything (See Rey being a force and lightsaber master over a short period). Her one note (almost autistic in nature) obsession with magic over literally hundreds of years explains her power level, but also her detatchment from the mortals around her (spending years studying one spell or writing a book). She is not immediately liked, because of her weird personality. She is desired for her power (Fern for example), not because she is a radiant perfect kind person. Does Freiren have ASPECTS of a Mary Sue? Absolutely. She does not tick all the boxes though.
>>290315063Agreed, Frieren is overrated trash.But, unlike you, I forgot about it after watching the first season and moved on.
>>290315063the funny sleepy elf granny tells you to kill yourself for making this thread again, QED
Elves are like the original overpowered Mary Sue fantasy race. It was like this in Tolkien. Blame him. Frieren being an autistic idiot when Elves are supposed to be a race of wise and powerful immortals is the joke.
>>290316404One more thing. "Beyond Journey's End". The title. If you took a fully max level, kitted out, endgame save file after the main quest and all side quests are done from (game of your choosing) and dropped them into a fresh praythrough where everything is level 1 and your character is still maxed, wouldnt they be a Mary Sue? Isnt that kinda the idea?
>>290316634Humans would be like this too if they had thousands of years to learn and grow. See Aragorn and the Dunedain.
>>290315063She ruthlessly kills the monsters that I see as a stand-in for people I don't like so her being a Mary Sue is actually based
>>290315063>What gives?She's an elf!
>>290316677Yeah but the problem is that it doesn't really feel like it's beyond a journeys end, it's just another journey.
>>290315063Elf sex
>>290315063People think with their dicks.
>>290316404The problem is that she's never really proven wrong or loses in almost any substantial way. One way that this could have been fixed would be Frieren only having knowledge on old spells and as such gets caught off guard by new ones, showing how the world has been changing without her adapting to it.
>>290318457The world changed without her adapting to it because the one man who loved her died without her knowing how much she was loved.
>>290315063because strong woman Western media :(Strong woman Japan :)
>>290315448Just like in real life with immigration
>>290317971All the flashbacks and constant talk about the old heros and the statues of them and such doesnt make it feel like the end of a journey and the beginning of a new one? Two things CAN coexist at the same time. It is the end of Frieren's biggest journey, and the start of a smaller one. >>290318457That is what happens with the Demon Qual with Zoltraak. They call out this trope specifically with an entire battle. She did prepare, and he did not. Mary Sue moment? Maybe. Magical autist racism obsession moment? Definitely.
>>290315448When you get past how chaotic evil races pwn the libs, the demons are just boring by design, and so are their fights since Fern is gimped with only using laser spam for no reason
>>290318738>You must have le epic big energy balls or it's boring or something
>>290315063>Frieren>boring, one-note, unexpressive, overpowered, mary sue womanPick one
>>290319102She literally is lmao.
If Frieren is a mary sue why is Himeel the Hero and not her?
>>290318783That's literally every fight in Frieren.
>>290319168Kill yourself
>>290319284>Complains about laser spam>Actually every fight are big ball
Is there another fantasy anime with elves and stuff I should be watching instead?
>>290315063>unexpressiveNah, you just made this up. People dislike women who act like men and are also mary sues. I'm sorry you're still mad about nobody liking the nu wars movies.
>>290316404>Just my opinion. I think it is because she is intentionally and blatantly written that wayTHEY'RE ALL WRITTEN THAT WAY! It would be one thing if it was JUST her but every one, every single fucking character has the same cadence. Everyone just constantly exists in pure silence till something catches their eye and they respond with "ehhhhh"
>>290315269You're clearly here because you're mad that people you dislike like anime and frieren specifically lol, fuck off back to bluesky faggot.
>>290318710No because it actually has to feel like the ending of a journey and the beginning of a new one in practice and it doesn't.
>>290315063Degenerates indulging in their corrupt elven fantasies. Such thoughts are impure and detrimental to societal progress.
>>290315063Frieren has a proper objective and motivation and she is not really a Mary Sue. Himmel may have been a Gary Stu though and Frieren is just trying to understand him better because she failed to do so and regrets it. Her motivations are not truly altruistic and more than once she´s tried to avoid helping. Fern usually has to push her to "do the right thing". If anything Fern is the more vague character. She doesn´t particularly care for magic and accompanies Frieren mostly because Heiter instructed her to do so. Both are entirely justified on their hate for demons having lost their homes and loved ones to them and the point of the journey is the development of the relationships in an on itself. As for the over powered thing, it is permissible for Frieren because that´s not what the story is about, her struggles are more related to her elven autism, an area on which being the strongest mage, does her little good. In fact, it often makes trouble for her. It´s not particularly deep but it works.
>>290315063her body structure makes it seem I could rape her regardless, unlike mary sues
This is hands down my favorite anime to come out in the past decade. Is there something else I should be watching instead?
>>290319482> Frieren because that´s not what the story is about, her struggles are more related to her elven autism, an area on which being the strongest mage, does her little good. In fact, it often makes trouble for her.Frieren’s flaws really don’t get her into any real trouble that she needs to urgently pull out of. It’s often played for laughs over anything serious. The same goes for Stark’s cowardice which he gets over pretty quick to become the series punching bag and Fern isn’t really called out for being bitchy all that often.
>>290319324>>290319557Dungeon Meshi and Edomae Elf are far better.
>>290317427Truth
>>290319809No no, her being over powered constantly makes trouble for her. It gets her jailed, forced to work for free, made her face a doopleganger which strategy meeting resulted on her revealing a weakness, pisses of Serie, put her on an assassination target list, dragged her into Serie´s affairs even though she is not interested at all. Frieren is socially awkward so being dragged into stuff like that just because she is overpowered is such a drag.
>>290319347Yeah you're right. It's the entire cast that's unexpressive.
>>290320308I dropped Dungeon Meshi. I don't think the food thing is fun or quirky, I just think it is a really unpleasant and dumb hook for a mid fantasy setting. Maybe I will try giving it another chance and I can make it to the fourth episode.
>>290321174Better than the most generic fantasy setting known to mankind that constantly contradicts itself with modern food.
Honestly elves ain't even that badDwarves are the worst race overall, witch elves there's still some variety but dwarves? They are literally copy pasted.
>>290320536But yet she's always proven right about everything.
>>290323113>I want my MC to be retarded
>>290323193>I have zero concept of nuanced character writing.
>>290319306Every character is not expressive. It's just the style.
>>290319482> Himmel may have been a Gary Stu thoughHimmel is definitely more like a plot device to define what heroism is make characters do things over an actual character. We never really see any negative sides to him since it’s all from Frieren or other people’s rose tinted glassed flashbacks. Even his narcissism doesn’t hold him back since it circles around to him being a good person and wanting Frieren to remember him.And no, him not fucking Frieren doesn’t count as a flaw.
>>290315063she's cute
>>290315063Frieren isn't actually "overpowered" in the classically bad way if you follow the story. She's got several centuries of experience under her belt and abuses her knowledge gap over everyone else more than any raw power difference. She's also not the one starting fights, she's just finishing them in between her hunts for novelty grimoires and magic.More commonplace hate of OP characters comes from them gleefully stomping out opponents like edgelords, often without narrative justification or if done as the author's political mouthpiece.
>>290323920
>>290324291lmao at responding seriously to the troll thread
>>290324291The problem is that we never really see her train and her power feels really unjustified.
>>290324291>More commonplace hate of OP characters comes from them gleefully stomping out opponents like edgelords, often without narrative justification or if done as the author's political mouthpiece.You're acting as though there isn't an entire subset of right wing fans who use Frierwn do exactly this with their political beliefs lol
>>290323873himmel being dead isn’t even a real plot point since the series flashbacks to him constantly.
>>290324816Himmel being dead is the entire point of the show.
>>290325442Sure it's the entire point, but it's also done badly.
>>290325664I like the flashbacks?
>>290318710>She did prepare, and he did not.Even with prep she couldn't have beaten him alone, he'd probably have beaten her solo. Not to mention he went from no idea about defensive magic to instantly understanding it, figuring out the weakness, and capitalising on it.People sleep on Qual, but he was legitimately a genius savant and ridiculously OP. That fight was the equivalent of jumping a defenseless man right as he woke up, with a gang of people wielding submachine guns, and he STILL put up a fight.
>>290324637>The problem is that we never really see her train and her power feels really unjustified.her training was covered in flashbacks and she did it for a thousand years. it's talked about constantly and then she goes and trains ferns in the exact same way. it's beyond journey's end anon, she's already had her main journey. this is what happens afterwards. see how that works now? the whole training a new generation, era of humans, history repeating itself with new heros, who will be remembered thing that's constantly in the narrative? did you miss all of that or something? maybe try watching for something other than panty shots or maybe just stick to sailor moon. might be more your style.
>>290325664You're right, they should talk about a character that you never see and have no idea about why they are relevant. Best way to have nostalgia is not to remember anything at all.
>>290326086Anon, you do realize that there's better ways of doing this than the way that Frieren does it, right? Is Frieren the only show you've ever watched?
>>290325998qual was one of the demon mages that beat her, as per her own recollection. she only managed to confine him the first time around and that was with the help of the party. the narrative leading up to the second battle was how everything is changing and advancing, including magic.
>>290326125anon you do realize that 'better' is a subjective opinion and that you're not a great scholar or a gentleman? is boku no pico the only show you've watched?if you don't like the show, why do you watch it? and partake in threads about things you don't like and get upset about? have you ever asked yourself, 'why do these things keep happening to me'?
>>290326060The problem isn't that her training is shown, the problem is that the story doesn't put her in any situations that meaningfully challenge her competency.>>290326181>Everything is subjectiveIs this the cope that we're going with now?
I love Frieren and I am surprised a show this popular doesn't have more threads. What gives?
>>290326207Because the show is boring as fuck and there's really nothing to talk about. It's as deep as a puddle.
>>290325998Thats a pretty good point, anon.
>>290326199Her competency was meaningfully challenged when she let the love of her life slip through her fingers right under her nose. A competent person doesn't let that happen.
>>290326223Oh. Are there any deep shows I should be watching instead?
>>290326243Okay so nothing. Thank you for proving my point. >>290326267Dungeon Meshi and Edomae Elf are far better.
>>290326323I dropped Dungeon Meshi. I apologize. Maybe I should try and pick it up again.
>>290319102aura is the most expressive character and she diedshe was too expressive to be allowed to liveyou can tell she wanted to cry here because she knew she was deadmeat and wanted to desperately deny it
>>290326389>Demons only show emotions to deceive their preyThat really doesn't work here.
>>290326480i didn't say anything about deception herereally the only times she has used any form of deception in the entire story from what we can see are using an envoy to convince the grafers to lower the barrier for opening up conversations and telling a blind boy that she's just an adventurer while she listened to him babble about himself everyday
>>290326199>The problem is that we never really see her train and her power feels really unjustified.>The problem isn't that her training is shownok.>the problem is that the story doesn't put her in any situations that meaningfully challenge her competency.beating the doppleganger challenges her competency and she couldn't do it without fern. the doppelganger was created by a monster. so she couldn't beat the monster without fern. see how that works?she get jumped by lernen in the last episode of the first series, and the narrative leading up to that is whether or not he could beat her. that's a conversation lernen has with serie. but she is also relic anon, like a smaller version of serie and maybe kraft. her time has passed (era of humans etc). what is challenging her competancy now is her relationships with others, especially humans, as she tries to adjust to the consequences of her life decisions. that's the story. the whole story is 'beyond journey's end' ie 'what happens next' to great heroes who are still around afterwards. no one remembers who kraft is and yet he also saved the world. even the hero of the south is being forgotten. >Is this the cope that we're going with now?you're right anon, you're an all-know connosieur with the finest taste in hentai. everyone needs to just get on your level. someone who needs story elements explained to them like you do should probably shut the fuck up.
>>290315063>complains about Frieren being boring and one-note>makes daily topics about it for 3 years straightAnon, you ever considered that you might become what you despise?
>>290326323>Dungeon Meshi and Edomae Elf are far better.you are fucking retarded though aren't you
>>290319347I wish when people said "acts like a man/woman" they actually elaborated on what that means and what they think a properly socially gendered version of that character looks like, because that would be a much more interesting conversation than one note bashing
>>290326323I watched Record of Lodoss War and it's everything Frieren failed to be. Deedlit is peak elf and Parn is much more inspiring than Himmel because we actually see him grow from a flawed boy to be a more genuine hero.
>>290326567I pretty clearly laid out what the problem was and you decided to strawman it.
>>290326060Owned that freak
>>290326567>beating the doppleganger challenges her competency and she couldn't do it without fern.Lmao, so her only obstacle was someone that was literally an exact copy of herself? You're not making a very good argument there.>she get jumped by lernen in the last episode of the first series,And it fundamentally changed nothing about her.
>>290319102she is all of these things but I guess its kind of the pointher being a quasi immortal elf mage whose main relationships are with people that exist only in passing to her and how she has learned to handle it is one of the main themes of the story
>>290315063lving embodiment of SEX
>>290315063What?
>>290328085>Bwuhhh? Huhhh? What is blud babblin about lil bro?
So Frieren is actually a shallow show? I was thinking of watching it but this thread is changing my mind.
>>290328055she's too sleepy for that
I love this but this shit needs to be bi-daily
>>290328416Yeah, it's pretty shallow. It just looks pretty enough to make people think it's introspective and deep.
>>290329546
>>290328055goddamn
>>290315063Because you are talking about two different audiences. You are the one having trouble separating the two audiences. This is a you problem not a industry or fandom problem.
>>290330376Anon, the same right wingers that love Frieren are the exact people that would complain about female mary sue characters.
>>290315063
>>290315063I don't mind a racist Mary sue
>>290315448I would not have a problem if every demon was on the same level of Qual. Instead, every demon after was him was a complete imbecile who could never challenge Frieren in any meaningful way. When Qual learned defensive magic had advanced enough to make his version of zoltraak useless, he quickly adapted and was seconds away from blasting Frieren and Fern to pieces. Meanwhile all other demons 100% rely on their bullshit gimmick magic and will die instantly if their gimmick is nullified. Qual with ten minutes of prep time will kill Frieren and Fern 100 times out of 100. Aura with a prep time of 60 years immediately pissed herself and died. Solitar was such a letdown as well, you think someone who spent 1,000 years earning battle experience would have learned to counter the stealth-mage meme, which is basically 100% of human mages.
