Unironically what the fuck is wrong with elevens and endings? This shit was way worse than I remembered it being
name one (1) good western ending
>>290319764I don't know. But for some reason my intuition always suspects foul play when a pattern is established. Maybe something behind the scenes, like some directive to disappoint, has been put in place, and writers are only made aware of it towards the end of their series. That's my best guess.
>>290319949cars 1
>>290319764stick to westoid media, your brain is incapable of understanding asian thoughtnot trying to be rude or anything, just stating facts
>>290319764Compared to some other endings Gurenn Lagann's ending was fantastic.
>>290319764I'm sorry it made you uncomfortable sweetie, next time they should add a trigger warning
>>290320199No, it was complete dogshit and the antithesis of the message of the show. Yoko never marries, Viral never fixes his impotence.
>>290319949once upon a time in the west
>>290319949Good, bad and the uglyCowboy Bebop Closed GAME
>>290320411>Movie older than most anons parentsClose enough to a concession
>>290320272do you think the thesis of gurren lagan was "get married and make babies"?
>>290319949Django Unchained.
>>290320766Right? The gay one didn't do that
>>29031994912 Angry Men
>>290320500they stopped making new westerns so it can't be helped
>elevensCode Gayass was over twenty years ago, Gramps, you can call them the Japanese.
>>290320766The mold growing from your used tissues can be hardly considered as the future generations
>>290320411You mean the one that was written by a self-proclaimed communist and visualizes the passing of the white man into the dominance of the brown masses?
>>290319949Return of the King
>>290319949The One
>>290320978it's cool because you finally find out what the deal with the harmonica was
>>290320766>You will never reach the surface>ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH!>You will never beat the Spiral King>ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH!>You will never go to space>ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH!>You will never be able to use this power responsibly and you should just let your wife die so your quest and all your friends sacrifice will be in vain.>Eh, he's got a point.
> Simon, Kamina and other lead humanity to surface & overcome space tyrant. > All the actual competent people dies , Simon loses his love & give up his position to be a hobo cause he is too old for new generation. > While that incompetent Rossiu who doomed all the characters to play politics get the happy ending with a family and even take over Simon position despite being even older than Simon. It was a garbage ending where the absolute worst characters gets away with everything by playing victim and gets the happy ending that Simon deserved.
>>290319764This is purely a shounen story problem.
>>290319995Some of you fuckers need to learn about Hanlon's Razor, the actual reality is far more sad and depressing
>>290319949Return of the Jedi>>290319764TTGL had a great ending and you are a faggot.
>>290321272>to be a hoboHe is making Nina's dream a reality. Do you not remember her dream?
>>290321519Agreed, I bet purityfags had something to do with it.
>>290321600Movie retcon lmao
I am still so fucking mad they make Yoko into a old and busted spinster holy fucking shit. Not even shipping her and Simon but anything would've been better than this
>>290321702Yoko became pointless once they got on the surface. She never contributed anything to the plot.
>>290321762>women are support characters as they are in real lifeShocking
>>290321077At that point Simon IS the power. He is ironically fighting the power by not using/abusing it
>>290319764If you want the real reasons it's a combination of things:1) Culturally they are neither practised nor experienced in endings. Manga, novels, and TV are incentivized to be serialised and to continue and get stretched out for as long as possible. The ends are often sudden or adrupt because of cancellation or a need to wrap up; this leads to an ill-considered ending. Because most things end this way, the readers interpret this as "normal", and when they enter the field they do they same too, even intentionally because they think bad is acually good.2) In this hobby you've probably heard of kishotenketsu and johakyu. If you haven't, they're japanese story structure where:Ki (Introduction): Introduces the characters, the setting, and the normal state of the world.Sho (Development): Expands on the initial situation and builds details without adding major conflicts.Ten (Twist): Introduces a sudden, surprising shift, complication, or new element that seems unrelated to the first parts.Ketsu (Conclusion): Reconciles and connects the twist with the first two sections to wrap up the story....and conversely:Jo (Beginning): Things start slowly and calmly, building a solid foundation and setting the stage.Ha (Break): Momentum picks up, changes occur, and tension starts to grow rapidly.Kyu (Rapid): Everything rushes together into a fast, intense, and decisive conclusion.Both of these, whether 3 act or 4, are perfect for serialised works and they dwell on making bloated middles, and then the "ending" is explicitly designed to be this post-twist rushed affair. This is historical and cultural, and you see it in their TV and movies and old plays and everything else.tldr They either don't think or plan for endings at all, or the natively produced trash they're exposed to every day is normal and even aspirational to them.
>>290322020So this is why noa is having extreme writers block after having 10 years to write an outline for elin
>>290319949The SearchersThe Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
>Bringing back the dead is bad because we need to leave room for future generationsThey say this in the same episode where Lordgenome saves everyone btw
>>290322020Interesting. Still sucks that the need to adhere to formula gets in the way of good story telling.
>>290322132>Both movies were the MC ends up alone.Zoomer and ret/a/rds would despise those...
>>290321668>Movie retcon lmaoIt happens in the original series too
>>290322020You don't like anime and you should leave
>>290319764Simon and Yoko banged off screen and you can't prove me wrong.
>>290322020>They either don't think or plan for endings at allIncorrect, a lot of authors plan for an ending. But those authors get axed
>>290322544Well yeah, the endings are more "rapid" than the "rapid" they had in mind.>>290322539I love it, it's a matter of understanding it warts and all.
>>290319949codename kids next door
>>290322242By sacrificing himself for future generations.>If the life of this temporary body will create a tomorrow for all spiral life I will gladly give it>Yes, I agree with you completely
>>290319949Pantheon
>>290319764I don't get it, TTGL's ending is amazing.
>>290322843But he could only sacrifice himself after they brought him back to life in the first place. So where do we draw the line? It's messy writing that wants to have its cake and eat it too
As someone who really likes cosmism and transhumanism in general, this ending felt like a spit in a face, created by some vapid moralizing dipshit. I sure hope he's not using medical aid of any kind because he needs to remove himself from the gene pool.
>>290322843It's a goddamn head in a jar anon
>>290322867pantheon did NOT have a good ending. That shit was convoluted and its pretty much confirmed that it was a rush job because they didnt get greenlit for a season 3. they turned my sci-fi thriller into a battle shounen. a fucking battle shounen
>>290319949LOTR
>>290321272>Simon loses his love & give up his position to be a hobo cause he is too old for new generation.Meanwhile he's like 22 years oldLol the message is so fucked>Your life is OVER once you're past your teenage years
>>290319949Back to the Future
>>290323435This is literally the truth if you're a zoomer or alpha, once you're an unc (24+) it's over
>>290321022CUT MY LIFE INTO PIECESTHIS IS MY LAST RESORT
>>290323467No... i refuse. I will FIGHT THE POWER
>>290323435Just shave it and start blasting tren
>>290322542You know what, fuck it, this is my new headcanon to cope. Yoko had her own family with Simon and Kamina pulled Nia in Heaven like a pair of swingers
>>290319764Shit, in retrospect Kill La Kill really is the better series huh
>>290322904Simon didn't become a haremancer god so it's shit.
>>290321838She's not even a good support character.
>>290319949Ice Age 1
>>290322020I get really annoyed whenever I see people try to say manga and anime are the superior art forms because they have endings. The successful manga will almost certainly be drawn out longer than it should so any planned ending gets drawn out or watered down and any unsuccessful manga will get shit canned and the creator has to rush it immediately.
>>290323668TTGL is simply too long in the wrong parts. 26 episodes is simply obscene when you realise that Kamina kicks it around ep 7, there are 3-4 episodes dedicated to fighting different generals and rest of the story wraps around after timeskip in less than 10 EPs. Too much filler at the beginning, way too little if not zero towards the mid/end.Yamato 2199 had way better pacing despite possessing similar beats
>>290321077>You will never be able to use this power responsiblyBut he did. By not abusing it to keep Nia alive
>>290324191Curing space cancer can hardly be called abusing your powers faggot.
>>290323435His life is not over, he spends the rest of it going around the world, exploring it and helping people, something his aniki would have been proud of. And mentioning him losing his position as a bad thing is stupid, Simon never liked it to be begin with, it's better for him to not have a boring office job he doesn't like.
>>290319949DreddThe 300UpgradeKingsman: The Secret ServiceGrand TorinoThat being said, Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust had one of the best endings of a film i ever saw.
>>290322020How the flying fuck are you educated enough to know about jo ha kyu and kishotenketsu yet still have such a garbage lazy take.>the natively produced trash they're exposed to every day is normal and even aspirational to themThe story structure not following the same principles as western writing doesn't automatically make it bad, what exactly is your argument as to why their stories are "trash"?
>>290321022this but unironically, for a martial arts supremacist wank film, you honestly couldn't get a cooler ending, even if its corny as shit lmao.
>>290324427He asked ChatGPT about it, also pretending that's an educated take is like saying that being able to summarize the 3-part structure or hero's journey is "educated". they teach you this in middle school English class
>>290324590It's fairly rare for people outside Japan to know about those writing structures at all, leading to lots of big misunderstandings when consuming their media.>This is historical and cultural, and you see it in their TV and movies and old plays and everything elseIs a much more informed comment than your average social media user would be able to make or care to include even with AI. You're right that I got baited and neglected to consider it just being a tweaked AI reply though.
>>290324427>The story structure not following the same principles as western writing doesn't automatically make it bad, what exactly is your argument as to why their stories are "trash"?Because the thread thinks they're bad. In reality, as westerners, we're also more used to the western story structure where the twist is precisely halfway instead of later, followed by a defeat and a lowest point before a dedicated rise to action. That's why all those 80s/90s action movies where the credits roll the millisecond the bullet enters the villain: because the twist, fall, rise and catharsis have already occurred, so a rushed ending is fine. Japanese media crams it all into the end, often adding a timeskip and making various things off-screen or implied. That's directly because of the difference in philosophy. It's not a matter of "good" or "bad", they don't exist in this case, it's a matter of cultural tastes and overexposure/desensitization.>>290324824I'll admit I copy pasted google overview's definitions for kishotenkatsu and johakyu because I couldn't be fucked but I reformatted them to be alike and cut the em-dashes. Rest is me because come on look at my fucking typos.
>>290324271That's the thing, people would be more accepting of the ending if Nia actually died for real, the disappearance thing that wasn't foreshadowed until 5 minutes before the ending is too arbitrary and unnatural in itself to just roll with it.
>>290324876Calling it trash, especially in the context of this thread, is pretty directly making it a matter of good or bad, but fair enough I guess you were just being edgy. Was surprised to see the actual reasons brought up on modern 4chan.
>>290320894They're rarer these days but no, there's westerns
>>290319949Return of the Jedi, Lord of the Rings, Inception
>>290320069>>290320199>>290321558>>290322904>main character's love interest fucking dies and then he becomes a wandering hobo>TTGL's ending was good
name a better ending, you can't
>>290325051I'd talk about how Japanese manga, animation, TV, and movies are all the direct descendants of kabuki theatre but it'd be a waste of words for this site and it's not actually relevant.
>>290319949Big Wednesday, that's coincidentally where TTGL took its ending
>>290325280>hurr durr look at me being a reductionist retard hurr durr
>>290325280he's Simon the digger, he digs holes and plants flowers like Nia wanted
>>290325315I'm aware, that's a fun rabbit hole to go down. I'm still curious what you meant when you said>Culturally they are neither practised nor experienced in endingBecause most of what you said next seems to apply equally if not moreso to western media.
>>290322995>As someone who really likes cosmism and transhumanism in general, this ending felt like a spit in a faceGood, you're literally the antispiral
>>290325280Who are you quoting faggot?Don't abuse the quote function, it makes you look like a retard.
It's been 20 years, you need to get over it
>>290319764Implying he didn't get to plap that on a monthly or at least a yearly basis.
Someone fix the transparency if I fuck up
>>290325599Holy kek.This thread needs to read up on TTGL being inspired by Getter Robo, because the sudden "It's bad to take our spiral power too far" angle makes significantly more sense from that angle.
>>290321272>where the absolute worst character gets away with everything by playing victim and gets the happy endingJust like reality™
>>290319949Unironic answer, Citizen Kane
>>290325573Most of it could or should, and there's plenty of western TV with rough endings for various reasons. The specific Japanese pipeline of manga and anime isn't wholly applicable to the west and as an anime/manga board it's easy to sound broad about it. And certainly western superhero comics are fucking endless. But the Japanese manga industry is huge, varied, old, and very healthy and alive. The failure rate for authors who, despite being published are still somewhat amateur and inexperienced, is expectedly high, espeically when their points of reference are people just like them.This is all probably a bad non-answer. But just think: One Piece is going to have a dogshit ending because Oda has 30 years experience keeping it going. He is literally inexperienced at writing endings. It will be his first this century. Writing endings is a skill and a muscle that has not been used in his case.Araki, despite Jojo hypothetically been going longer, thanks to its Parts structure (and various shrots) means that he has actually written more than 8 endings in 4 decades, so his endings are generally a little less regularly talked about as being "bad".Attack on Titan was Isayama's first serial and 4th published thing ever. Result? Questionable.Kotoyama and Dagashi Kashi and Call of the Night. I enjoy them, but those end weak as hell. Partly because he started very young (inexperience) and they were both 4 year weekly runs.A lot of this might be reading tea leaves, but it's present.
>>290323435This is the part I don't get. I think there's merit to the argument that you shouldn't abuse spiral power, but what do generations have to do with anything? Darry and Gimmy are from the same generation as Simon, Viral is hundreds of years old, and the three of them are still going on space adventures decades later.
>>290325599Simon has literally adopted the philosophy of antispirals, just in a less cucked form. Cosmism is the polar opposite, complete domination of nature and revival of all previous generations.
>>290319764becoming old is worse than death
>>290320221>trigger warning
>>290321077Retarded shounenbabies like you think the entire thing is a power fantasy and then get confused at the ending because it all flew over your head. Dumb fucking retard I honestly hope you die.
>>290326907Show em Inferno Cop.
>>290326966Only the first two episodes of this were funny.
>>290319764I bet she still had a banging body even as a hag
>>290319949Xiaolin Showdown
>>290324191>But he did. By not abusing it to keep Nia aliveThere's a difference between healing the sick and raising the dead. He wasn't a fucking necromancer and Nia's "condition" was a complete ass pull."
>>290326943>Retarded shounenbabiesAnd retards like you think they're watching something brilliant when it's the same crap you want to accuse others of watching.
>>290328135yeah sure whatever go back to the DBZ general and wank over powerlevels or something
>>290319764I hate the fact that endings give the illusion of moving forward without actually moving forward more>Simon grew old into a useless old man never accomplishing anything else ever, never marrying again, alone to the end. "I planted flowers", meanwhile he was never allowed to move on from Nia at all or find love again.>Yoko grew old and alone as well because she wasn't allowed to ever move on>No one was actually allowed to move "forward" beyond how they ended.Sure she became a teacher but that's where she ended.
>>290328538It's the nature of fiction. If they showed you the characters decades later married to random new people then viewers would collectively shit their pants.
>>290328189Yeah because that's what this show isn't all about. Robot outgrows the fucking universe but nope no power level bullshit here.
>>290328564maybe don't show the character decades later than. That's an option.
>>290328588what you see in it is what you get out of it, dumb shonentard
>>290328538Bro I know this is hard to believeBut when people say they "peaked" in life that's what they meanPeople have exciting teenage years, and then it's 70 grueling years of the absolute most mid grind where nothing happens ever again. You're watching what they WOULD have become without getting involved in the spiral shenanigansSimon and Kamina would have died poor idiots regardless of having become big damn heroesYoko would never have settled and would have ended up an old maidIt's a weirdly realistic ending to a series about kids refusing to accept the way things are
>>290325313Metal gear solid 4. >>290319949Avengers Endgame.
>>290328626He said being completely blind to his own irony
>>290328722>Bro I know this is hard to believe>But when people say they "peaked" in life that's what they meanThat's well and true but it also doesn't really make for satisfying fiction. People might accept their heroes never achieving the same heights but they don't like to think that they end up as failures either. That's how you get Jake Skywalker.
>>290328722You can tell this poster is a dumb kid
>>290328820What irony? You're a dumb shonentard who only see what he wants to see, and that's why you get pissed off at an ending that doesn't make any sense to you.
>>290328874just woosh
