If there is anything that unites the "Four Fathers of Anime" it is that they are all Romantics who each has their own particular pathos and brand of Romance. They also vary in degree with Dezaki being perhaps the most Romantic. However, their romance cannot be denied. Osamu Dezaki, Ryosuke Takahashi, Yoshiyuki Tomino, and Leiji Matsumoto all have their own particularly strong romantic streaks in their works. Tomino's is the driest and most grounded of the four. Matsumoto has the most broody and melancholic. Takashi's is full of vigor and is hard boiled. Dezaki's romance is the most complete, the most passionate, the most rounded. It's why his works are beloved classics across the most diverse subjects.Tomino's Romance is for the dry and gritty reality of the life of fighting men. The expression of Tomino's Romance is "War is a place where the most Beautiful amongst us go to die. But without were we would never know that they are Beautiful." That is his influence on Kojima. Kojima expresses the exact same romance through out the Metal Gear series, especially though in MGS3, 4, and V. It's also expressed a lot more in MGS1 vs MGS2 which is more detached and philosophical of a game.
tldr?
>>290332423the only good pieces of war media are a select few made by those who were there and able to do & see it. everybody else is just blindly regurgitating or blindly subverting the same old stories
Anno started his directorial career with Gunbuster which was a tribute to the four fathers of anime, especially Dezaki, it was part of his disagreement with Miyazaki. When Miyazaki said "anime was a mistake" he was probably referring to Anno.Anno and Kijima are a lot alike, they liked all the same shit, especially Tomino's work, except Kojima got it and Anno didn't. Which is why he made NGE, and that's why Tomino bullied him for years about not getting it. Essentially it's Gundam for people who don't get Gundam. Tomino would give him advice on how to put himself into his artwork in a better way after NGE and for years Anno never listened. Since Anno worships the ground to me to walks on, he never minded getting bullied or made fun of by him since he learned everything from him.Then when Anno got a girlfriend you started taking Tomino's advice and finally "got" Gundam and that's why he made the rebuilds.But ultimately all goes down to Tomino was always right.
>>290332423>Ryosuke Takahashi
>>290332515This sounds true because it's written confidently, but I wonder about the accuracy even though it's internally consistent.
>>290332504Actually it all goes back to Tezuka whose experiences during the war in the military shaped basically his anti-war attitude
>>290332504The writer of the Illiad did not see war
>>290332576Votoms almost as influential as Gundam on the next generation, especially on Kojima, especially Mellowlink.Takahashi was one of Tezuka's disciples
>>290332577He's just making a load of unverifiable claims, all horseshit except for the part about Tomino hazing Anno
Kojima took it up the ass from Hunter Schafer
>>290332674we have all fantasize bout it
>>290332667No this is all verified, read any reviews from the four fathers of anime. Takahashi was basically running the Sunrise style for a few years in the '80s, it's important to understand how influential directors are
What a weird coincidence that all these people who went to war came back and wrote anti-war stories.
>>290332713It's not particularly anti-war. It's much more romantic than that. More Junger than Ernest Hemingway
The Fundamental Difference between Miyazaki Haiyo and Tomino Yoshiyuki is that Tomino has a profound respect for Television as a medium and for the Television Audience. They both came up in the same era under Tezuka but came away with opposite opinions.Regarding the TV Audience Miyazaki says, "They deserve Nothing." Regarding the same Tomino says, "They deserve so much more." Tomino has a profound respect for the intellect of Children and desired to give them something More and something Challenging in his Anime. One of his philosophies he puts forth in his works is a concept of "Growing Up without Growing Old" and a fundamental mistrust of "Adults" who have grown hardened hearts and resent younger generations through a lack of even memory of their own self as a child.The hardest thing for many adults is having a Theory of Mind for themselves as a child, for forgiving children for the faults they themselves were forgiven for as a child, for being understanding of a child's limits and not demanding they think exactly the same as they do.
>>290332844This is an attitude you do see portrayed in a lot of anime after Tomino. It's not merely some "pro-youth" thing but more often the experiences of the author with their interactions with adults informing their minor characters and villains. There seems to have been a persistent attitude among many Adults in Japan in the 60s-80s, especially teachers, that children are merely part of the scenery and an annoyance at best. There is a certain attitude that "only Adults have value" and that children are "interchangeable and disposable" that is an attitude seeking both stability and stagnancy and an end to progress. Or even Worse: they view Children as a Threat. "This kid could grow up to take my Job! Horrible thought go away!" Some of you are lucky enough to not often encounter the Boomers and early GenXers who are very proud they've held the same job for 20+ years. The military basically had it right, the Navy had it right: 3 years. 3 years experience, move duty station and increase responsibilities, 6 years go for promotion, change duty station, increase pay and responsibilities. If you can't move up anymore, get out.
Stuff like this is Tomino is always mocking Miyazaki.
Thanks ChatGPT
>>290332943None of this was written by ChatGPT. You don't seem to have a very good eye for it.
>>290332713People born in the 40s didn't fight in any war.
>>290332515I thought the Miyazaki quote was an edit
>>290332895>Miyazaki hated TezukaAs if I needed another reason to believe Tezuka is infinitely fucking based.
>>290332712Is there a Mount Rushmore of anime where I can see the four fathers of anime
>>290332515Ain't no way a man who "got" Gundam would allow GQuuuuuuX to exist.
>>290333067I mean there's no anime and manga industry without Tezuka, obviously he is based. Miyazaki is a histrionic little autist who hated Tezuka cause he became too dark and cynical later on and Miyazaki has a hyperfixation on innocence, which he frankly himself constantly breaks. Probably realizes that you can't just make ten thousand Ponyo's even though he wishes he could. Also it's hypocritical considering he was best friends with Takahata who made fucking Grave of the Fireflies.
>>290332713holy reddit midwit take
>>290333112What exactly is so hypocritical about being friends with a man who writes stories that you don't
>>290333123It's hypocritical because Miyazaki went on to say how he was "disgusted" with Tezuka because of the dark shit he did later on. Realistically he should have been disgusted by Grave of the Fireflies tenfold and not like Takahata enough to be friends with him.
>>290332617Proofs?
based tomino
>>290333104I dunno newtypes have a bunch of misunderstandings based on feelings they don't understand is very gundam.
>>290333209Post his thoughts on video games
>>290332423A mans romance and most stories historically use to be about doing things for women
>>290333295I think you misunderstood, I'm not talking about romance between men and women I'm talking about literary romanticism.
>>290333209>It was a work that told people that it's okay to be depressedWhat's wrong with that ?>If you don't like the way the world works, then it's okay to pick up a gun and attack someoneAt no point Eva says something like this. If anything Shinji is similar to Amuro where he gradually becomes dejected and more of a nervous wreck in the later parts of the story.
>>290332423>Gundam isn't just about robots, it's actually about the people piloting them!Wow, such deep insight from Kojimbo.
>>290332844>>290332854This isn't twitter you nigger you can put it all in 1 post
>>290333400No he couldn't, tourist. 4ch has a character limit on posts
>>290332515But Miyazaki loves Anno like the son he never had
>>290332423How would you define the "eras" of directors? Seems like most of them these days are beholden to the whims of production committees outside of a select few, which makes it look like a dying career.>70'sDezakiTakahataMatsumoto>80sTominoMiyazakiTakahashi>90sAnnoOshiiKon>00s and 10sShinkaiHosoda???I got nothing else left for the modern famous ones, maybe Imagawa and Imaishi?
>>290333727not imagawa fuck I meant ikuhara
>>290333209I love Tomino because his works have given me the insight to call him based when I agree with him and say "whatever old man" when I disagree with him.
>>290332423>the four fathers of anime>the big three of anime>the double whopper of anime>the bucket of anime>the ipod of animeYou just know there's some obese mentally ill taint writing all these associations that only exist in the corporate hellscape of muttistan
>Japs invent the 'big four of anime'>Schizo turd worlder starts yelling about 'mutts'Why are they like this
>>290333775posting my favorite>(When I see Hayao Miyazaki's panty shots,) it makes me wonder if he actually wants to rip it off or not. If he doesn't want to but still shows such pretentious lolicon manga stuff, I want him to stop. It's bad for child education. Anime isn't necessary for kids anyway.
>>290333727The four fathers started under Tezuka, the grandfather of Manga and then anime, in the 60s, and learned from him and became directors in the seventies and eighties and in turn trained the Next Generation like Anno.Look at something like Ideon, that's the last and final refinement of the Old Sunrise style under Tomino. VOTOMs also represents the peak of Old Sunrise form under Takahashi while Tomino and the Gang were working on their revolution
>>290333828So what's that got to do with Romanticism?
>>290332617>Iliad>writerYou utter fucking retard.
>>290332617and he could be described as pro war. most people who go to war and see atrocities are not.>"War is sweet to those who have no experience of it.” -Euripedes
>>290334111No idea, i don't know any of these. Just scanned the first sentence of that rabid muttoid and felt the need to clarify for the larger audience that muttoids are mentally ill freaks conditioned to speak in a manner that defies reason, common courtesy and respectful conduct.
>>290334162Nice 'argument' lil bro
>>290332423you have brain damage if you think tomino has a romantic view of war
>>290334410The consensus view on /m/ is that Gundam is neither anti-war nor pro-war apparently
>>290334417/m/ has been retarded for a very long time now.
>>290333727>00s and 10sMasaaki Yuasa
>>290332578Not Mizuki?
>>290333485If you can't edit your blog posts down to 2000 characters this isn't the forum for you
>>290332423Metal Gear Solid is based on Rambo and Escape from New York.It has nothing to do with Gundam.
>>290333112How would you describe miyazaki's character? Never looked into him but from all the posts ive seen he comes off as a contradictory and miserable guy
You guys are having a really nice conversation, and that's great I am going to let you finish, but heads up, I am going to fuck the shit out of this retard, and he is going to hate it because I am a legal of age adult.
>>290332515>When Miyazaki said "anime was a mistake"He didn't.
>>290332515This is true btw, Rebuilds follow up on what Tomino criticised Evangelion for.
>>290332576>>290332643I thought it was Rumiko.
>>290332895>>290333067Miyazaki hated Dezaki too.
>>290333727>Miya in 80s instead of 70s>Oshii in 90s instead of 80sretard.
>>290333828wait till you hear about the 4 heavenly kings of Tatsunoko.
>>290332423>Tomino>one of the “Four Fathers of Anime”>When his works are all antithetical to the mainstream depiction of anime and are closer to Hollywood globohomo wokeslopReal regular anime doesn’t look like a DEI virtue-signaling parade and a day at the United Nations. One of the ways in which anime is unique and Westerners are increasingly flocking to it and ignoring Western media is because anime never has and never will be concerned with the issue of “representation” and inserting every marginalized minority under the sun just because. Anime is overwhelmingly full of White and/or Japanese or Asian characters only yet Tomino bucks that trend by continuously inserting Blacks, Browns, and encouraging racemixing. One of his most famous characters Guin from Turn A is an outright strawman of your typical Hollywood or Marvelslop character that exists only to fill out as many DEI checklists they can add on to him. He’s gay AND black why exactly? This would never be done in any normal anime, even the entire UC Gundam series itself he admitted was always meant to be a Pro-Palestine allegory, why tf is he inserting racial politics and third-worldism in a medium where it typically doesn’t even exist? His rival Miyazaki is way more deserving of being one of the Four Fathers of Anime than Tomino will ever be, at least Miyazaki’s preaching only goes as far as environmentalism and being anti-war and he’s not obsessed with identity politics or inserting as many gays, troons, or racial mystery meats as he can into his works. When you watch a Miyazaki production you’re still watching a relatively normal anime that only features either an all-white or all-Japanese cast, and cis straight characters that get into wholesome heteronormative relationships that are also never interracial. Tomino needs to fuck off to some western Jewwood studio where he really belongs, and he should take along his fellow wokeslop brother Watanabe for good measure too!
>>290332423 (OP) >Tomino>one of the “Four Fathers of Anime”>When his works are all antithetical to the mainstream depiction of anime and are closer to Hollywood globohomo wokeslopReal regular anime doesn’t look like a DEI virtue-signaling parade and a day at the United Nations. One of the ways in which anime is unique and Westerners are increasingly flocking to it and ignoring Western media is because anime never has and never will be concerned with the issue of “representation” and inserting every marginalized minority under the sun just because. Anime is overwhelmingly full of White and/or Japanese or Asian characters only yet Tomino bucks that trend by continuously inserting Blacks, Browns, and encouraging racemixing. One of his most famous characters Guin from Turn A is an outright strawman of your typical Hollywood or Marvelslop character that exists only to fill out as many DEI checklists they can add on to him. He’s gay AND black why exactly? This would never be done in any normal anime, even the entire UC Gundam series itself he admitted was always meant to be a Pro-Palestine allegory, why tf is he inserting racial politics and third-worldism in a medium where it typically doesn’t even exist? His rival Miyazaki is way more deserving of being one of the Four Fathers of Anime than Tomino will ever be, at least Miyazaki’s preaching only goes as far as environmentalism and being anti-war and he’s not obsessed with identity politics or inserting as many gays, troons, or racial mystery meats as he can into his works. When you watch a Miyazaki production you’re still watching a relatively normal anime that only features either an all-white or all-Japanese cast, and cis straight characters that get into wholesome heteronormative relationships that are also never interracial. Tomino needs to fuck off to some western Jewwood studio where he really belongs, and he should take along his fellow wokeslop brother Watanabe for good measure too!
>>290332423Kojima is so washed. Makes you wonder why he hasn't made a movie yet all this time despite constantly trying advertise himself as a cinephile who lives and breathes movies. I'm sure he's privvy to all these young startups making it into the movie-making scene as of late, so it makes you wonder why Kojima's never tried his hand at it despite constantly hanging out alongside actual filmmakers.
>>290337485pure projection
>>290337299I'm sad to say I recognize this autist from previous Gundam threads and am deeply pained to see he hasn't succumbed to a self-inflicted gunshot wound
>>290337548Cope Tominocuck, Gundam has always been better without him. Wing and Seed looked actual regular anime for once with no DEIslop added.
>>290334341>i don't know any of theseyou don't like anime
>>290334539Why is it so hard to become a prominent director these days? too much adaptations?
>>290337701I've seen Zeta Gundam three times, ate at the Akiba cafe twice before it closed, and I've never seen SEED because I chose to watch Aura Battler Dunbine instead. Am I going to hell? If I am I don't mind, some of my favorite people are there. I hope to meet Tomino there one day.
>>290338113SEED isn't that good and that anon is a retard.
>>290338161>SEED isn't that goodBetter than Tominoslop since at least it doesn’t have any Black or Brown characters or LGBT shit, that automatically makes it 100x better than whatever Tomino has ever put out.If you want to be bombarded with minorities constantly what are you even doing watching anime in the first place? Hollywood and Disney are right there for you.
>complaining about diversity in an anime made by a total pervert in 1978A-a-are you okay?
>>290335904all of Tomino's work, not just Gundam, are important to understanding Kojima's thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZtxukMPs7U >>290334410Sounds like you don't really understand romanticism.
Either Tomino is woke and loves DEI, or he is an insane pervert who writes whole paragraphs about how his characters love cunnilingus. Which one is it?
>>290338224You would die watching Star Trek like this show would kill you.
>>290334417>>290334430No real political ideologies are really espoused or promoted by any party in the story of Gundam. "Independence for Spacenoids" is a cover for a grab for power by a particular family that loosely represents organized crime. It is a series about people at war and decisions made in wartime. The ending of the main series of Gundam is about one man going insane and pursuing his vision for the future through ecological terrorism and one man resisting him for the sake of the innocent to be harmed. It is a battle between different schools of thought in utilitarianism. The closest Gundam gets to "political" is merely in the idea of the corruption of power, a very ancient moral idea with millennia of history and examples to draw from. And this is all written and animated during the very hot political climate of the Cold War and during the many different political struggles of Post-War Japan. It would have been very easy to include contemporary politics in Gundam and politicize the show by making stand-ins.
>>290338224>humans get shipped into space colonies>excess humans, the ones the government doesn't care about, oligarchs get to stay on Earth>you're expecting none of them to be black or brownwhy?>LGBTuntil Turn A I think it was just fujobaitand this industry runs on fujobait, don't kid yourself
>>290338428ignore the schizo.
>>290338427However, Gundam, of course, is not made in some vacuum ignoring mankind's history. There is a clearly WWII/Post-War derived political landscape in Mobile Suit Gundam. The Earth Federation is dominated by an American-British-French/West Euro centric axis of power. While Zeon is clearly German-Italian and maybe Russian/East European warsaw-pact oriented in its population. The essential political struggle is between the industrial labor and resource exploiting people in space who are supporting life for the ruling elite on Earth. Historically it draws on the American Revolution and the classical grievances of colonists who feel like they have or are being treated like second class citizens while their resource extraction enriches the "home country".So then what is politics, specifically modern politics? It is really a matter of competing ideologies in a struggle for power. Classical Politics is not a matter of ideologies but a matter of tangible issues between different populations and their struggle to achieve goals.Classical Politics is the process of working out a balance between the competing interests of two cities or two states which results often in War when no diplomatic agreements can be reached.
>>290338428
>>290337009he's an old fool.
>>290338427I think you might actually have a chunk of your brain missing.
I can't believe it is the year 2026 and the level of media discourse we are having amounts to "ugh show bad me no like brown people".
>>290338467a true master of how to do a proper fujobait
>>290338541>Most of humanity has been forcefully moved into cylinders>wtf why is race mixing happening?Some people just don't think.
>>290337250Miyazaki is not one of the 4 fathers for two reasons: 1. he abandoned television directing and therefore had little influence on the television directors and industry that came afterwards. Tomino's innovations changed Sunrise's whole house style and he had many disciples who each then became popular television directors.Second, Miyazaki explicitly disavowed anime, he is more interested in competing with Walt Disney and other theatrical animation guys.
>>290338113Dunbine is brilliant and influenced isekai anime for many, many years to come, you can even see echoes of it in Digimon Adventure (which made me go 'wow' as a fan of the latter, something really neat about seeing what inspired your faves).Too bad the 'go back home to conquer Earth' trope didn't really make it into the narou-kei era, you see it here and there but not nearly enough and it really raises the stakes
so what about the economics? anime as we know it today only became an an industry began being made because it was sponsored by snacks and candies. See Astro Boy.It was never respected as something cultural. It's purely commercial, with very low margins at that, alot more than any other medium.
>>290338527Not an argument.
>>290338620Yeah, it isn't. I don't intend to make one, I intend to insult you for being a moron.
>>290338615Who cares? What matters is the Romanticism they put into their work. It's there if you watch it whether or not the culture appreciates it. All you can do is just tell people about it, explain to them try to teach them. you can lead a horse to water etc etc>>290338467Extremely romantic, in both senses of the term.
>>290338527Trust your instincts more often anon, they won't lie to you
>>290338570 correct. the old Toei animated films are the forefathers of ghibli
>>290338615What about the economics? Gundam is a franchise surviving on supplying a billion dollars worth of plastic crack.
>>290338639That's as may be, but it has nothing to do with Tomino's style and his influence.
>>290338427Where do people like this even blow in from? No seriously."No real political ideologies are really espoused or promoted by any party in the story of Gundam."Do you write this shit with a straight face? How old are you?
>>290338664wtf I'm sad now.
Is Char Tomino's self insert and is that why Char is balding through the series?
>>290338615Every respected cultural medium either began as something commercial or from the patronage of kings and oligarchs, things have to be funded somehow anon. Artists gotta eat.I'm a modern person with a broadly egalitarian worldview, so I think 'advertising to the masses' is a better funding mechanism. Especially when you're advertising things like toys and figures that no one will buy unless they love the story itself, that's just incentivizing quality work that connects with the audience.>with very low margins at thatthat's a good thing unless you own stock in a studio.
>>290338673 it's funny if it makes too much money it's too commercialif it loses money and doesn't survive, it"s too irrelevantcultural critics are hacks
>>290338406>Star TrekThat’s Western globohomo slop so it’s to be expected, Gundam is anime though.>>290338395>Either Tomino is woke and loves DEI, or he is an insane pervert who writes whole paragraphs about how his characters love cunnilingus.>implying these are contradictory The biggest perverts are the libcucks, that’s why they all go to furry conventions, want kink at “Pride,” and groom our kids using Drag Queen Storytime.
>>290338752God you're an idiot.
>>290338752Japan is the one of the most westernized nations in Asia, with only worst Korea as a close second. Now fuck off >>>/pol/
>>290338570>Miyazaki explicitly disavowed anime, he is more interested in competing with Walt Disney and other theatrical animation guys.But Miyazaki’s works are closer to regular anime than Tomino’s Gundam which is infested with Hollywood levels of DEI “representation.”
>>290338782>Japan is the one of the most westernized nations in AsiaAnd yet still most anime doesn’t have a full on parade of the racial minorities under the rainbow, when I watch anime I expect to see a homogenous White or Asian cast, which is what I usually get unless it’s Tomino or Watanabe slop. They are the clear outliers here.
The more this guy talks about DEI and shit the more tempted I am to dump my Gundam folder until image limit so the thread dies.
>>290338715no, his self inserts were ZZ Gundam as Bright Noa (depressed after murdering his entire beloved cast in Zeta Gundam so he made up a new best friend for himself called Judau Ashta), Uso in Victory Gundam (wanted to be a little boy again harassed by older women)And then he literally put in a cameo of himself in G no Reconguista like he was Stan Lee.I think the main lesson that Tomino was already trying to get across to Anno for all those years was on how to distance the concept of "himself" from his work and learn to "let his work tell people about himself" as opposed to "telling people about himself in his work". Anno never listened until the rebuilds.
>>290336846No way the nigga who ended Zeta the way it did said this shit.
>>290338694Go ahead which part is wrong? Which political ideologies are expressed?
>>290338428>humans get shipped into space colonies>excess humans, the ones the government doesn't care about, oligarchs get to stay on Earth>you're expecting none of them to be black or brown>why?Because that’s how anime usually is and if you don’t even know that you’re clearly a tourist.
>>290338813No they're not, Tomino was working in the standards Sunrise style which was influenced, and then revolutionized in the latter part of the 80s.That's why he's up there with Dezaki.It's funny you think I made this because I wanted to talk about gundam, when I actually wanted to talk about Dezaki which is why I wrote that in the OP
>>290338940Yeah, I'm a tourist. You caught me. I don't know what I was doing waiting in that panel line at Otakon with Bailey Jay almost 20 years ago. I didn't know the pool was closed.
>>290338909picrel>>290338977Also really the whole point of my thread is to show the through lline between boxing in Ashita no Joe and tennis in Aim for the Ace, which then becomes sword fighting.
>>290338940it's not at all rare to see diverse casts in SF anime, though the MC is almost always at least half-Japanese.
>>290338977>No they're not, Tomino was working in the standards Sunrise style which was influenced, and then revolutionized in the latter part of the 80s. That's why he's up there with Dezaki.So why are Tomino’s works full of racial minorities and DEI representation when no other anime is like that? (Except Watanabe slop, which is equally westernized garbage.)
>>290339067irrelevant
>>290339051I want this dude to watch Star Trek so I can see him die of an aneurysm.
>>290339067Why does that matter
>>290338922One impression I have of my fellow directors that I’ve developed over the years is that they don’t copy what they should. They don’t copy the good stuff. In terms of my own work, I don’t think they often see through to what I was really trying to accomplish.I don’t think that most scenario writers and directors in Japan consider what it is that regular people would like to see, what most people consider “entertainment.” I wish that more people involved with anime would start seeing themselves primarily as entertainers....ANIMERICA: Is that different from your downbeat endings?Tomino: I make sure my audience knows that it’s fiction and that what happens to my characters doesn’t necessarily say anything about their own lives.
>>290339067That has nothing to do with Romanticism, craftsmanship, or production technique.
>>290339067>implying
>>290338715>baldingit's called a maturing hairline
>>290339102It is in fact very relevant when one of the pillars that most defines anime is that it’s one of the few mediums of entertainment left that doesn’t bend the knee to DEI or globohomo, in fact harmonious homogenous societies is a core Japanese and Asian cultural value in general and they despise Blacks & Browns. Having that in your anime shows clear Western influence and that your anime is closer to the West and Western values than it is to traditional Japanese ones.
Aaaaaaahhh why isn't it only white people in space I'm going insane help-
>>290339199>when one of the pillars that most defines anime is that it’s one of the few mediums of entertainment left that doesn’t bend the knee to DEI or globohomoYour schizobabble isn't reality
>>290339278t. only watched Yamato
>>290338541 #Really the point of the thread is to have a more literary analysis of the 4 fathers of anime, and how their Romanticisms differ. Let's talk about Matsumoto.Leji Matsumoto is by far the most right wing of all mangaka on his aesthetics alone as he depicts characters with noble lineage or diluted noble lineage as tall and graceful anime characters while he depicts common peasant stock people as little gremlin cartoon characters.
>>290338872>And yet still most anime doesn’t have a full on parade of the racial minorities under the rainbow, when I watch anime I expect to see a homogenous White or Asian cast, which is what I usually get unless it’s Tomino or Watanabe slop. They are the clear outliers here.because Japan is stuck onto an old school version of the West
>>290338541Pattern recognition has never been more efficient and nuance has never been more optional in human history.
>>290339182>Attempting to use Utena as some kind of “gotcha”That was only two characters and only one (1) of Ikuhara’s works compared to Tomino littering the majority of his casts with brownoids.>>290339216>Aaaaaaahhh why isn't it only white people in space I'm going insane help-Turn A doesn’t take place in space and still most of it’s cast looks like pic related. (Fran is a white woman by the way).
I can't hear you guys over the sound of me blaming minorities for my life going to shit instead of working on myself or doing any real self improvement.
>>290339394>Tominocuck is a third world loverWhy am I not surprised?
>>290339321Matsumoto's Romance also goes into the post-Normant conquest of England variant of Romance being a journey or adventure, thats part of what makes them melancholic. Pre-Tudor Middle English romance. It's why his works are so popular with the French. They feel "French". Slender characters with those wildly expressive melancholic faces, insane fashion, absolutely distinct visual style for character design that speaks to the French soul of "The French Copy No One and No One Copies the French."That melancholy and stirring of the soul is also why his works were so big to many older musicians. Some like Glenn Danizg/Misfits wore merch of the character to concerts and Daft Punk were directly inspired by it. I love how Matsumoto drew the builds of his characters. Matsumoto did the entire Interstella 555 collaboration with them, Leiji loves the French and the French love Leiji. It's just the way it is. All anime that traces the thread from Matsumoto becomes popular in france.
>>290338896Just fucking dump it man, I hate everyone in this thread so much nah unless you got a pass it's not worth wasting your saturday, go watch underaged girls at the park and get some fresh air or something
>>290339439I'm not a third world lover. I mostly just hate your sorry ass.
>>290339321but his heroes are all poorfags and rebels (with MC often one of those gremlins), while his villains are often aristocrats or "imperial Japan but aliens".it's an interesting mix that probably gives his stories a lot of their power, easy to read in multiple ways.
>>290332423Gundam is great but Kojima is a fucking idiot who enjoys slop like kpop demon hunters, you should have chosen an endorsement that actually means something.
>>290339456>Trying to have a serious and in-depth discussion on /a/ of all placesThis place has been taken over by the election tourists, as demonstrated by this very thread.
>>290339517Yeah the 2020 election tourists. You were not here before 2016 lol
>>290339391>>290339182Ikuhara's lineage is not from Tomina, it's from Dezaki.
>>290339535There are people posting here right now who don't know what Habbo Hotel is.
>>290339623Probably including that guy
>>290339600and Go Nagai, even though he's not one of the fathers of anime he's one of the fathers of Manga.
>>290338715Every artist puts some of themselves in their works.
>>290336143>How would you describe miyazaki's character?Well considering all the comments he’s made about little girls and how he either allowed or wrote himself Sanson grooming Marie in Nadia, probably an unironic lolicon.
>>290339321People like to meme about Tomino but I think 0083 is the only like actual considerably right-wing one of it's line. Gato is never presented as being in the wrong for the things he does, just a sad tragedy. While Cima on the other hand is almost a caricature of a materialistic woman, unaware and ignorant of any lofty goals or ideals
>>290339795>Gato is never presented as being in the wrong for the thingstime to post the evergreen image.
>>290338896just ignore the bad faith posters.
My favorite part of 0083 was the Haman cameo.I'll fuck off.
>>290339877Based and honorable, he did the right thing to the end uncaring for his own well being and profit.
>>290339877While true kek, his last stand in the OVA was presented as pretty heroic all things considered. Just mad suicide mission with the emotional soundtrack
>>290339795I agree but I don't think Tomino had much to do with that one, he didn't direct it or write it.0083 is so good just because the MC is a self-insert-deconstruction for every slightly autistic military Otaku or the average (at the time) gundam fan (Japanese student either applying for a mechanical engineering program or already in one, builds model kits, has no social life due to studying too much. In the 1980s these guys thought "I would be a better gundam pilot than Amuro/Kamile because they were just a kid".It's a very realistic look at exactly how it would go down.
>>290339923Why did Char obsess over indian pussy when he had all the newtype white underage girls he wanted?
>>290338372>Sounds like you don't really understand romanticismsounds like you're retarded
>>290340032>Why did Char obsess over indian pussy when he had all the newtype white underage girls he wanted?Anon, she was only like a mother to him.
>Sounds like you don't really understand romanticismWuthering Heights sucked ass. You guys want to complain about absolute shit that involves race mixing complain about that garbage book instead.
>>290340032>Why did Char obsess over indian pussy when he had all the newtype white underage girls he wanted?Because Tomino is a woketard and it’s part of his libcuck agenda to shill for race mixing and browns.>>290340115>Western novel promotes race mixingI expect nothing less, I DO expect better out of an anime though.
Essentially after MSG and Ideon, Tomino had an experimental phase at Sunrise. Without this there's no Escaflowne or any of the 90 Style Sunrise anime.The "Tomino Experimental Phase" at Sunrise consisted of Xabungle, Dunbine, and L-Gaim. All 3 of these anime works were purely experimental in nature with Xabungle experimenting on practical character animation and detail, Dunbine experimenting with Biomechanical Magical Mecha in an "other world" setting of Byston Well with cross over travel. And L-Gaim experimented with a more serialized space adventure format with smaller mechs and with character designs by Nagano. All of this led to a maturation of Sunrise as a studio with an evolved and more modern visual language for the Gundam projects of the late 80s.Escaflowne is the original mecha isekai series created by the staff at Sunrise with both an unpopular shonen manga tie in and a pretty popular shoujo manga tie in. That new Sunrise is the one where the staff that created Escaflowne cut their teeth as a new generation. Only a few people involved in the program were actually there for the "Experimental Trilogy" and Zeta Gundam but they arrived at Sunrise during the start of its golden age. Escaflowne's credits are full of people who started with the later UC Gundam projects: 0080, 0083, Char's Counter Attack and so on. And looking at their credits, they were heavily involved in the peak Sunrise era of the 90s.
Also notice how it’s always the most Aryan-coded characters like Char or Dianna that get infatuated with the Brownest of Browns, Tomino is literally trying to promote White Genocide.
>290340236Nobody respond. Just let it go.
>>290340115Heathcliff is white in Wuthering Heights and I would not not characterize Wuthering Heights as romanticism in the literary sense, it's closer to realism and sensationalism with a dash of Romanticism. I mean Victor Hugo romanticism. Look at Rose Of Versailles
>>290340259I'm willing to bet he samefagged his own posts several times too
>>290340264Heathcliff is half gypsy and it is considered to be Gothic Romanticism.
>>290340312If you read that on Wikipedia or something, you're wrong, and in any case it has nothing to do with Dazaki or Tomini.
>>290338931everything you wrote is wrong like the most dogshit braindead take I've read all week
>>290340312>Heathcliff is half gypsySo a quarter Jeet?
>>290332423Buddy you're not at the level required for grand narratives of anime. All you have right now is a string of cute but vapid tweets you made, that only showcase your own mediocrity and biases as soon as you take them out of your twitter bubble.I suggest you stay happily on twitter or work towards making a blog, and hopefully notice the gaps and jumps in your thinking along the way, by yourself. Because personally at least I'm not looking to act as an editor or debate someone that seems like a fool with poor taste.
>>290340343>>290340355They don't outright state what the fuck he is in the novel, but other characters imply that he is something other than all white. It is to distinguish him from the other white landed gentry in the book.
>>290340032Haman is also like kind of indian in origin, her father's name is Maharaja Karn (which can be read as Khan)
>>290340434uh no Heathcliff is repeatedly characterized as dark, swarthy and brown
>>290340472>her father's name is Maharaja Karn (which can be read as Khan)Tomino just can’t help himself can he?
>>290340384Everything I said is completely airtight and backed up by merely studying what everyone worked on and where they got their start, and what studios did what under what director. You can look it up yourself, it's 100% accurate.I think you probably just haven't seen a lot of anime, you've never heard of the Xabungle or Dunbine. Maybe you've heard of Escaflowne and you think that just came out of nowhere obviously it didn't if you actually watch the shows and look at the names of the credits.
>>290340226That phase is mostly important for Bebow influence. Kogawa and his students like Kitazume and Omori went on to work through the decade for Sunrise.
>>290340348Go ahead which part is wrong?>>290340434back then a Welshman was considered a swarthy nigger, read contemporary writing about "dark" Britons.
>>290340478If he's repeatedly characterized as that why is he never characterized like that once in the novel's text?Again, this is not something you can find out by looking it up on wikipedia, you have to actually read the novel.
>>290340714>>290340714>If he's repeatedly characterized as that why is he never characterized like that once in the novel's text?I dunno maybe it's because subtext is a thing???
>>290340774If that subtext is a thing in the novel how come you can't point out a single instance of that being the case?
Having said that I do think Wuthering Heights would make a bully anime based on the Manga. I've always wanted to see an anime version of Gone with the Wind.
>>290340794Are you on drugs? Can I have some?
>>290340879Leiji Matsumoto style.
>>290340621I've seen a ton of anime and done my own research and thinking on these topics. I hope you know you're looking even dumber now by going for such a weak response. Think about it when you calm down.
>>290340899Like I said in that cultural context Germans and Welshman were considered dark skinned. There was many gypsies in Europe around who had darker complexion than pale blonde Englishman but they're still categorized as white.Jacob Elordi was a pretty good choice in truth even though the movie was terrible. People want him to look like Zorhan Mamdani. In any case let's get back to the 4 fathers of anime
>>290340968Holy shit you ARE on drugs.
>>290340940you're clearly projecting because you can't point out where I said anything factually incorrect, but for some reason merely pointing out, for example, where Escaflowne came from has made you angry. but if you feel dumb it's not my problem. Either point out something I got wrong about Tomino's influence or resign yourself to your ignorance. Everything I said is accurate, read any of their interviews, watch the shows.
>>290341023Nah, I just really love and know a lot about anime and enjoy studying it and discussing it.
>>290340714>>290340665truly a fucking retardHeathcliff is first described as a "dark-skinned gipsy" in appearance with "black eyes", as well as later being said to be "as white as the wall behind him"[2]: 21 and "pale...with an expression of mortal hate."[2]: 243 Mr Linton, the Earnshaws' neighbour, suggests that he might be "a little Lascar, or an American or Spanish castaway".[2]: 44 His long dark hair described as "colt's mane over his eyes"[2]: 51 Several characters speculate about his background. When Lockwood first meets him, he describes Heathcliff as "a dark-skinned gipsy in aspect". Mr Linton refers to him as "a strange acquisition [...] a little Lascar, or an American or Spanish castaway".[11] In Chapter VII, the young Heathcliff says he wishes he had "light hair and a fair skin" as well as "Edgar Linton’s great blue eyes and even forehead".[12] Nelly soothes him, saying that a "good heart" would make him look attractive even if he were "a regular black". She calls him "handsome [...] fit for a prince in disguise", and fantasises that his "father was Emperor of China, [...] mother an Indian queen", and that he had been "kidnapped by wicked sailors and brought to England".Heathcliff is frequently referred to as a "gipsy" and is described using the language and imagery associated with Romani people.[13][14] That term is used by a wide range of characters, including Lockwood, Nelly Dean, Hindley Earnshaw, Mrs Linton, Joseph, and Edgar Linton. In Chapter VI, when the young Isabella Linton sees him for the first time, she exclaims: "Frightful thing! Put him in the cellar, papa. He's exactly like the son of the fortune-teller that stole my tame pheasant."References to Heathcliff having "black hair, [...] black, deep-set eyes, thick brows, and dark skin" coupled with Liverpool's involvement in the Atlantic slave trade have led to suggestions that Heathcliff could be of African descent.[15][16][17]
>>290341107no you fucking don't lmao
>>290338467Char and Amuro is legitimately the shittiest pairing/rivalry I've ever seen. I expected better from all the shippers hyping it upChar and Garma is a better pairing and I don't even ship that either. Like just the premise of them going to military academy together is already pretty gay and so it feels inevitable that some gay shit possibly happened between them in the years they knew each other>b-but Char just wanted to kill Garma--Yeah but he had to work with/act friendly to Garma for years (in addition to whatever actual feelings he did have, he did seem to regard him as a friend at least), with Garma not only nobility but a higher rank than him in military, you can easily imagine a scenario where Garma asks Char to suck his dick or whatever and Char is internally seething but has to play along for the sake of the cover
>>290341236You can see that as much as you'd like, you still haven't answered which part I'm wrong about. You haven't even said where you disagree. Literally nothing I said is controversial lol like obviously if Tomina worked on three animes between the first two gundams, his advancements on the three animes would influence the second Gundams.Obviously if tons of people in the industry in the 90s worked or started under him during this experimental period then it would be influential by the work they did when they became directors themselves in the 90s. This is common sense and completely uncontroversial.
>>290341330And this is all a byproduct of the fact that anime, unlike manga, is both an artistic process and a mechanical industrial process. This is why, as I said , Go Nagai is not one of the fathers of anime
>>290340472>Maharaja is a royal title in the Indian subcontinent of Sanskrit origin. In modern India and medieval northern India, the title was equivalent to a princeHigh caste indians are the literal aryans
Kojima scholar here. He never watched any of Tomino's slop except for 0079. By his own admission, he only watched 0079, 0080, 0083 back in the day. He has never seen Zeta (and neither has Oshii).People will post the tweet of him posting the CCA blu-ray and then call him a based CCA fan and about how it must have influenced all his works, but they missed the tweets from a day prior where has says he only watched First Gundam and was asking if he needs to watch CCA first to understand the Hathaway movie. He never watched it before then, and therefore it could not have impacted anything he made.0083 is the Gundam anime that influenced Kojima's games the most. He casted Akio Otsuka as Snake after hearing him as Gato. Yoji Shinkawa had GP01 gunpla on his desk when making MGS1.Anno did influence Kojima undeniably more than Tomino. And not just Eva, but Gunbuster. Kojima has stated that Gunbuster influenced his entire design philosophy going forward since Snatcher, to include many parody and references in his work. He has also included Gunbuster references in multiple games (backed up by Kojima's word, not speculation). The same cannot be said about Tomino.I'm getting really tired of Tominofags revisionism.
>>290338328>Modern sensibilities dictate a normal straight man is a "pervert"Grim.
>>290340032>>290340236Char (and Sayla) is lowkey possibly mixed race but white-passing.>mother depicted as stereotypical light-skinned blonde with blue eyes>father has dark hair and beard, possibly kind of tan skin>Char depicted with noticeably pretty tan skin compared to some other characters, at least when he's drawn on-model (some art gives him light skin and golden hair but it's pretty clear in the actual original shows he's meant to have tannish skin and platinum hair)>"Casval" doesn't sound like a whiteboi name it's possible it was based off the name "Caspar" or something so maybe it wasn't originally intended to sound exotic but just the show staff slightly modifying a European-sounding name, but Caspar's not the name they actually went withI figured he's a mix of white + middle eastern or something from a similar area. As this thread says, it's the distant future so probably no one gives a shit and it's possible by then the world/colonies have more of a monoculture anyway, so even if true this doesn't exactly imply anything about his own cultural background, just ethnic makeup/overly specific shitty theory
>>290341742Gunbuster was heavily influenced not just by Dezaki as also by Tomino, and if you were a real Kojima scholar you would know the most influential thing to his style and visuals and designs was nothing you listed, but was actually Takahashi's Mellowlink.
>>290341891>some completely irrelevant shit he never watched or mentioned, but you saw a youtube comment calling it "MGS boss fights: the anime"cool. do you have any facts to post for once?
>>290342197The entire ending with the Jeep chase and rail shooter segment in is lifted from the first episode of Armor Hunter Mellowlink, a VOTOMs spin off and basically a big portion of the Metal Gear games as a concept is just AH Mellowlink. Chirico Cuvie himself is a mildly autistic genetically engineered super soldier who has no idea that is what he actually is and has to discover it. You could say Kojima split his character in half to make Big Boss and Solid Snake but he gave Solid Snake the 80s hero personality.Also it's not irrelevant because he's literally namechecked Mellowlink as an influence in interviews before
>>290341728I find the concept of eating literal shit just as offensive as these ugly tourist comics.
The only directors I respect are Yoshiyuki Tomino and David Lynch. Kubrick, buddy, you should have kept your mouth shut about the elite upper class masked orgies.
>>290341742>and neither has Oshii).literally wrong.
>>290341827>Tomino is always promoting brown men with white womenLiteral cuckhold agenda.
>>290341314you are a faggot to not see the fujo vision.
>>290343877Yeah see this would actually be interesting if their "rivalry" wasn't Amuro constantly beating Char in every possible way in every possible interaction they had prior to this in the previous show. The dynamic just feels too uneven to be interesting to me personally.Also it feels like Zeta does this kind of thing a lot where it acts like these characters have personally interacted way more than we know they really have, like this and also Amuro like "w-well Char's actually a really kind and gentle person" in a different scene, like the show's acting like Char and Amuro had these supposedly deep interactions in 0079 or something when we know they didn't. Even 0079 had a little of this where Amuro's kind of gushing over Char being a great pilot to Sleggar when all their previous interactions were just Amuro beating him anyway. It feels like the show's telling you their relationship is actually super deep really without it really being shown. Even in the Newtype scene in 0079 their "connection" is just saying what they'd already verbally said to each other in the same scene 5 seconds before, so it's not like we're meant to assume they learned everything about each other there.At least I actually get the vision with Charma, like there they both have power over each other in different ways which allows for more varied dynamics. Char maybe being a better soldier compared to Garma as kind of a nepobaby and secretly planning to kill him and his family, Garma being more privileged than Char and with more outward power in their social dynamics. You can at least see how at different times one or the other could be the "top" as it were.That said despite all the above bullshit I'm not really trying to argue or anything; obviously everyone else loves Char and Amuro together or at least thinks their rivalry is interesting and I'm in the extreme minority. I'm mostly just posting this shit because it feels I'm the only one with this opinion.
I ship Char and Haman because I am a 37 year old divorcee who has been diagnosed with BPD.
>twitter screencap threadHOLY FUCKING KINO
>>290339388Nah, the Romans did it better
>>290344252One last thing maybe that I was trying to get at but didn't really address as directly as I could have:I'm just not into Char and Amuro because yeah it's real easy for Amuro to like/have sympathy for Char and so essentially be the bigger man in all their interactions when he's the one who's always won anyway. When I was first watching 0079 and had only seen a few episodes, I was pretty intrigued when Gundam fans hyped up their Zeta dynamic and rivalry in general, and posted things like the Tomino quote about how Amuro is fond of Char etc. Like I wondered how that could be when they're clearly trying to kill the other constantly, how can you even go from that to almost having a friendship for at least some time? I was pretty curious how that would actually work out.Then I realized it only works because Amuro always wins and doesn't see Char as a threat at all by late 0079, and so it's mostly just pity at best. I expected a little more back-and-forth between the two characters over the course of 0079, like maybe sometimes Char forces Amuro to retreat or whatever, but in truth their rivalry ends up peaking by, like, episode 9 out of 43 and then after that doesn't even count as a rivalry at all.
>>290344252>like the show's acting like Char and Amuro had these supposedly deep interactions in 0079 or something when we know they didn'tI guess the implication is that their newtype psychic connection did that.
I don't think I've heard of Ryōsuke Takahashi. I did try to watch VOTOMS once, but I got bored and dropped it after lile 7 episodes.
>>290344252>>290344814not you again... we get it, you didn't find 0079 as good as people claimed it to be, that doesn't mean you have to camp every thread about gundam, just watch some other old show or hell even some Gundam AU.
>>290344909He's a cool dude with a few major works under his name but you should distrust people blinded by mecha-centric agendas. He's not that great a director; he'd often delegate directing tasks actually.
>>290345600They would probably really like G Witch.
>>290345645The list of directors is not particularly mecha centric, for example aim for the ace is about tennis, and ashita no Joe is about boxing.Takahashi's best work is arguably the cockpit, which is not about Mecha or SF at all, it's a war anime.Also there's really no source on him outsourcing directing. He's not listed because he directed mecha, He's listed because he was influential and trained the next generation under his style after he started in the 60s under Tezuka.
>>290332515>finally "got" Gundam and that's why he made the rebuildsWhich were trash and didn't hold a candle to the original series. Guess Tomino wasn't that great after all
>>290345600hi :)I know it might be hard to tell sometimes, like not even being sarcastic here since I get the tone of my posts might be kind of obnoxiously negative, but I wouldn't complain so much about 0079 if I didn't at least have some existing investment in the characters and universe. If I just thought everything about the show was complete shit, at most I'd just say "0079 is shit" and then move on forever. I think just the fact I'm able to type such a wall of text about it and camp out in Gundam-related threads recently (true) kind of shows I've been thinking about it a lot since watching it, like legit I'm interested in learning more about the universe and the show's production history. I have very mixed feelings obviously but I also think I have some unique takes, since for the most part online views on 0079 seem overwhelmingly positive.all that is to say-- I like discussing it.But yeah I guess I can see how those posts read as shitting on 0079 wrt the Char/Amuro "rivalry," but I was moreso just saying I don't like the pairing which is more a fandom thing than anything. If anything I think I was actually praising Charma a lot too, that should count for something.There's more positive or at least neutral stuff that I've posted about Gundam fairly recently too, but I get that doesn't stand out as much as the complaints.
>>290345933>there's really no source on him outsourcing directingYes there is you stupid retard. Please fuck off until you're ready to discuss these topics. Go ask some twitter faggot to translate his interviews and spoonfeed them to you.>trained the next generation after he started in the 60s under TezukaA lot of people did this. And shit like The Cockpit is a minor work and still in broader /m/ territory.
>>290333519Rip Goro
>>290347253No, like 4 people who started in the 60s did this and started a "school", and I named them. Even in the world of American comic strips there's literally only 4 schools from 3 "school artists."Why did you get so angry when you haven't even proven how I was wrong about anything? And why are you so obsessed with twitter? What does that have to do with anime that existed 40 years before Twitter existed?
>>290347253Also I can translate those interviews for you if you actually want to learn since everything I've said here has been from their interviews or credits lol
>>290349455Beyond helping foster talent there's no school in the artistic sense important enough to warrant a place along someone like Dezaki over so many other major people. Takahashi is not that big a figure.
>>290350289There's no other director as influential as Takahashi from his generation, except the other 3. You can't say Rintaro, he was a mangaka who didn't direct until the 90s. Go Nagai also was more of a mangaka not a TV director.You don't know a lot about classic anime.
>>290350542Kek you're a complete idiot.
>>290350738For the tenth time: go ahead, which part is wrong?
