GITS fetishizes future technologies while real cyberpunk shows them in negative light - how detrimental they're to the society and cause moral decayyou can't be a fan of this series and not be pro-miscegenation and troooning outhell, the author even draws bl*cked hentais
>>290352802>while real cyberpunk shows them in negative lightbut technology in a cyberpunk film is not all negative. If anything part of what makes it punk is the fact that people are able to take technology which serves the elite and transform it, take ownership over it, and use it against the very system that it was designed to perpetuate.
>>290352854none of that in GITSthe good guys are the elite - section 9 works for the systemand the bad guys are cartoon villians who have their own personal goals like just wanting more moneySAC was different I guess - the laughing man was this sort of anti-hero you describe but i was told it's a fanfiction and the current adaptation actually follows the manga closely
>>290352802>while real cyberpunk shows them in negative lightdumb zoomer
>>290353408that is besides the point. your definition of cyberpunk is wrong which means your whole argument is moot.regardless i don't think anyone ever claimed ghost in the shell was cyberpunk which makes your argument even more confusing.or do you just prefer fighting men of straw?
>>290353408>the glowies/corpos cant be the protagonists or the PoV characters in cyberpunkAbsolute retard
>>290353751protagonist/pov is not the same as 'the good guys' the difference is showing either in good or bad/neutral light
>>290353408Section 9 aren't necessarily the good guys. They're just the protagonists. Motoko and Batou are more selfish than altruistic.
>>290353918Youre assuming I dont already know this or negates the fact that GITS is still cyberpunk. At best you can claim its 'post cyberpunk' but that mostly only really fits SAC. Youre also assuming what would be the 'punks' in GITS are good guys when theyre clearly not. The protags arent even really bad people despite being a glowie kill squad. Their actions are justifiable even by modern standards.
>>290353601no, your definition doesn't really contradict mineif you use evil for good it's still evil>your whole argument is mooteven if you say that my definition is wrong it's still part of my argument that GITS is not cyberpunk and that it doesn't show technological advancement in negative light you're arguing like a tranny by proclaiming victory over some semantical issue while at the same time admiting I'm right about everything else and then adding 'who cares about that lol no one ever thought gits is cyberpunk we love the government and tranny-technology here'
>>290352802>GITS fetishizes future technologies while real cyberpunk shows them in negative lightoh no the horror
the sleepy major mokoto kusanagi
>>290354362>everyone says gits is cyberpunk and they are wrong>dude you didn't define cyberpunk correctly and i don't think anyone called gits cyberpunk>so i am write and gits is not cyberpunk, i knew itumm, congrats i guess
>>290354500Dreaming about shotas.
Do you fags want more black mirror? Do you want another show about "DEH PHONE BAD"We've already went through cyber psychosis, we're experiencing it right now. You have elderly you cant' tell what's real and what's Ai.We don't need a show to be oddly bleak to tell you poison is bad when we already know it is because we've personally experienced it, it's not even sci-fi it's modernity.
>>290354713>travels to other country>finds shota>befriends shota>finally a cute little shota to fuck, do you think he wants to fuck, hell yes he is down to fuck>wanna fuck little guy>naw, thats ok, i would rather sleep instead being the major is suffering
>>290354791I liked Bandersnatch, so it was only natural Netflix would throw it into the abyss
>>290352802Cyberpunk is more of an aestheticYou could argue neuromancer does the same and it's the origin of all cyberpunk
>>290352802>GITS fetishizes future technologies while real cyberpunk shows them in negative lightBecause everyone is super positive about having their brain or body hacked or having children kidnaped to have their brain uploaded to sex dolls. That aside, no, real Cyberpunk doesn't show technology in solely a negative light, most Cyberpunk franchises have lots of enviable technology, it is just that said technology is often used for evil as plot point... like GitS.>>290355566I think people have come to define Cyberpunk as the world Mike Pondsmith created where everything is fucked on all levels. For the average person life is a hell of abject poverty, dodging street gangs and cyberpsychos left and right, chasing cheap escapism and even the corporate guys are basically indentured servants working 14 hours a day with even your implants being company property. Everyone is corrupt, everyone is trying to backstab or exploit each other and no happy endings is basically guiding signpost of the franchise.No shade to Mr. Pondsmith, he created a wonderful franchise but it is also like the worst case scenario to the point of near parody and shouldn't be taken as the baseline for a Cyberpunk world. The world doesn't even need to be a soul crushing YA tier dystopia, it can be a regular world like ours, just that the story focuses in on the bad parts. Gangs, corporations, corruption, poverty, all staples of Cyberpunk and all appear in spades in GitS but society as a whole for the average chap is pretty normal.>You could argue neuromancer does the same and it's the origin of all cyberpunkI think Gibson once said that the people of his world would view much of our world as hell compared to their home, I guess he means third world countries and shit.
>>290352802Incredible bait, but I'll bite.All of the shows and manga depict the bad and horrifying side of technology, they're just not highlighted by gloomy music notes and red lighting, so it might have gone over your head a little.
>>290352802>the author even draws bl*cked hentaisBasedShirow is a true progressive
>>290352802Almost all of the problems in each episode are caused by the sci-fi technology, which contributed to the overall world in the setting getting drastically worse to boot.
>>29035280290% of works influenced by cyberpunk are stupid "woah dude that's so cool!" and completely miss the point of a fucked up future.
My definition of Cyberpunk, based on Gibson's and Persons' goes like this-scifi-weird and dangerous-technological hyperliteracy-society is in a perpetual state of chaos-cynical approachI think it's a very functional definitionGitS fits these requirements very well, even the more hopeful ideas about evolution are framed as requiring chaos and violence
Motoko Mower, my love.
>>290359577>MowerMotoko REAPER! She reaps human lives like the sword reaps the grass, okay? She's cool and badass and deadly, she's NOT a freakin lawnmower, got it?
>>290357462I disagree with saying Mike Pondsmith's IP is what defines the genre, if anything he merely benefits from using the overarching genre term/name as the title by osmosis. Sure normalfags will mostly assume you mean CP2077 or CPER etc. but they are still mostly aware of the wider genre and the IPs also associated with the term. Claiming people associate with cyberpunk with Mike Pondsmith's IP is kind of dishonest (at no disrespect to his work) as it benefits from recency bias, having a big game and anime etc. and thus are 'hot' topics and presumed to be the current topic. This however is a different question if you explicitly mention cyberpunk as as a genre and ask how they view it. This will make them drop any assumption of the topic being about his work/the game/the anime being the topic (As they might be doing this in presumption of the other person meaning this but hold themselves hold it as the definition of the term). When you get to stuff like this most normalfags will mention other stuff like Mr Robot, Deus Ex, GITS, Bladerunner, Neuromancer etc. with more obscure examples coming from people deeper into it. Due to this Id argue that the term is as the others described more about a mix of the aesthetic, tech levels (a range exists), heavy cybernetic use, and various moral and philosophical things. This covers more than low lifes with robot arms living in poverty as it extends to cover more grounded and other perspectives.The PoV is from the glowies in GITS but depending on the version it can have more of what you describe with the new anime, or it can be more grounded and basically the modern drab average world you see in SAC with some extra suspension of belief. Deus Ex has a wide range from this all the way to completely fucked and onto post cyberpunk from HR to IW. The term also applies and no one would disagree with it being used for Psycho-Pass which only really has some minor average terrorist fighting the system in a comparable way. 1/2
>>290357462>>2903607912/2 I ended up typing out more than I thought but the TLDR is I think youre not giving the benefit of the doubt to how people actually view the term in a vacuum and overestimate how much even complete newfags view the term and associate it purely with MP's work. Most people genuinely view it more as an aesthetic and a large multifaceted one at that
What is it, then?Gothic horror?
>>290361112Maybe... post-cyberpunk?
>>290361697kekalmost fell for it
>>290360836>I ended up typing out more than I thought but the TLDR is I think youre not giving the benefit of the doubt to how people actually view the term in a vacuum and overestimate how much even complete newfags view the term and associate it purely with MP's work.Maybe I am overestimating it but I've been seeing a lot more posts that seem to confuse Cyberpunk the genre with techno dystopia and corporate dystopia and push the idea that if the world is not a capital D Dystopia that is absolutely miserable then it isn't Cyberpunk. I don't feel that should be the case at all, dystopia is one potential avenue for cyberpunk and a popular one but it is hardly the core of the genre. With 2077 hitting it big with 40million copies sold and 2 anime's recently I guess I chalked a good chunk of the cause up to that. Maybe it is also that I see people saying we are headed to a cyberpunk dystopia all the time while posting generic surveillance state news or corporate wrong doing. >Most people genuinely view it more as an aesthetic and a large multifaceted one at thatIt is pretty hard to pin down the elements of Cyberpunk but I feel the big draw is the same as the Fantasy genre. castles, elves, magic, orcs, wizards and dragons, all staples of the genre the same way neon, urban sprawl, technology, AI, cybernetics, robots and even psychic powers are to Cyberpunk. First and foremost Cyberpunk is about creating an interesting setting with its neon, towering buildings and powers and like fantasy, your setting needs conflict, the state, corporations, gangs, AI, robots, ect. I think that need for conflict is why people feel it is synonymous with dystopia. I'd say Stand Alone Complex on vibes is the least Cyberpunk compared to the Manga and Film, the Cyberpunk is still there but it borders more on action sci-fi. The 2026 series has more consistent Cyberpunk vibes to me.
>>290352802>pro-miscegenationDrop the mask anon, this is clearly bait for a culture war thread for you.If you claim to protect society and moral, you have to encourage the common people to embrace and CONTROL those technologies.Humans WILL improve themselves & conservative dumbass will only make themselves extinct or drag everyone into servile slave for the tech-baron as they become immortal, eternally young, even posturing as god.Beside:>GITS fetishizes future technologies It doesn't, it warns us of the excess while showing benefit in pure cyberpunk fashion.Cyberpunk stories have always been pro-science, pro-technologies and open-mindedness
>>290352802Was this deep?
>>290363034>conservative dumbassConservatives are just liberls from 30, 40 years ago. They are pro-miscegenation. They sell out their daughters to black athletes or supposed black intellectuals.
>>290362689>It is pretty hard to pin down the elements of Cyberpunk nta but how about this?>>290359534
>>290364371Hits some of the bullet points. I don't think society as a whole needs to be in perpetual state of chaos though and he cynical approach is optional. Take the current Ghost in Shell series, society is stable and a lot of people are pretty optimistic.I mentioned fantasy earlier, a lot of things line up. Instead of taverns you have clubs and bars, instead of castles you have skyscrapers, instead of open air markets you have... well open air markets, instead of magic, monsters and fantasy races you have cybernetics, transhumanism, robots and AI. Stone and thatched roof is swapped for steel and glass, banners and signs with neon and adverts and the fashion moves from medieval to counter culture. Cyberpunk to me is an urban adventure story is a strange yet wonderous place with powers and dangers. Knights and bards and wizards replaced with mercs and detectives and revolutionaries.The reason why I say it is tough to nail down is because describing Cyberpunk is like describing a fantasy story, like DnD, Lord of the Rings and Frieren, it is just a jumble of tropes to set your story in and if you hit enough of them it is recognizable as Cyberpunk.
>GITS fetishizes future technologiesyou mean like the government enslaving kids and using them for shady brainwashing programs?or a corporation drugging children and using them to manufacture realistic sexbots?or a government entity using cutting edge AIs to manipulate society through criminal behavior in order to further the goals of one bureaucrat?did you even pay attention to the thing?
>>290364771>Take the current Ghost in Shell series, society is stable It most certainly isn't, the previous prime minister just got assassinated and the new one hired a ninja death squad to prevent other ministers from having him killed too.There's a rampant murderous robot problem to the point where it's treated as no different from the occaional riot. I mean I could go on and on but I'll summarize by pointing out that, a few decades only after the end of GitS, Japan is no longer a nation-state, it has been completely overtaken by Poseidon Inc.>and a lot of people are pretty optimistic.I'll clarify; cynical doesn't mean pessimistic, it means the opposite of idealistic.For example, the garbageman immediately getting over his fake wife experience. It's optimistic, but it also suggests that pure and noble things like love don't actually matter much, and can be faked easily.
>>290364771>you have cybernetics, transhumanism, robots and AI.Those things aren't unique to cyberpunk at all, thoughI think the reason why you find it difficult to nail down cyberpunk is because you aren't approaching it from the point of view of a storyteller, but from the point of view of a character designer.
CAN ANY OF YOU PUKES TELL MEHOW THE FUCK THE DHARMAQUATION IS SUPPOSED TO WORK AND WHY IT DOESN'T?
>>290364848I can't speck on the sequel, I've read GitS and 1.5, watched the 95 / 04 movie, SAC and 2026. I also know that Dominion Tank Police and Appleseed are connected and plan to get into them.That said, when I said stable what I meant is that the average person is getting cyberbrain hacked, dealing with glowies assassination plots, corporate conspiracies or organized crime, they are just working a 9-5 job in the world of tomorrow. I forgot how common the crazy robot thing is DESU.More my point is that our world deals with a lot of gangs, corruption, spying, black ops, refugees, riots, poverty and there is currently a damn robot war in Europe but that is also just life and not something the average person engages with beyond the news. A lot of GitS world, especially SAC seems a bit mundane for the average person while the main characters are always in the thick of it. So while it is chaotic when you list off everything wrong in the world, to me it appears to be a normal life level of chaotic.>>290364907>Those things aren't unique to cyberpunk at all, thoughNo one thing I'd say is unique to cyberpunk, it is the many different elements that all come together that make a setting recognizable as cyberpunk.
>>290352802>hell, the author even draws bl*cked hentaisThis is too funny. You are a stereotypical racist who loses his mind over a color. Blacked hentai isn't even black person porn. It's a freaking silhouette so the gooner can self-insert as the guy fucking the hot anime woman.
>>290365105>No one thing I'd say is unique to cyberpunk, it is the many different elements that all come together that make a setting recognizable as cyberpunk.No I mean there used to be scifi stories with allll of those things in each one of them, before cyberpunk was a thing.>to me it appears to be a normal life level of chaotic.WW4 just happened and an AI war is just a few decades down the road, with another nuclear war after that. Maybe you need to re-read the final chapter of the manga because the whole point is that the universe is unstable, and that instabiity is necessary.Again, like with the cynicism/pessimism thing it seems like you're confusing instability with shitty living conditions.
>>290365076With Orion, Shirow went way overboard with the spiritual technobabble. Maybe someone well versed in buddhism can glean some meaning from it, but I got filtered by Shirow's ramblings there.
There are 2 GITS threads right now and i dont know which one to go into to talk about the new episode.Oh my god that was great.We love transcendance into the electrosphere. Its be coming more like the 1995 one.
>>290365076>>290365296okay here's my attempt at making sense of itThe dharmaquation is a spell that reproduces the structure of creation, with an extra bit that's designed to collect negative karma throughout the universe. The idea is that you filter it through the rest of the spell, and spin it counter-clockwise so it becomes a spell of UNcreation, which, applied to negative karma should theoretically allow it to reduce all negative karma down to primordial nothingness.Needless to say that sounds kinda risky but whataverBecause it's an energy-collecting spell in general, it can also be used as a power source to summon gods, which is what old man Fuzen does: he summons Susano-o to destroy it.Now, because the spell has now been activated, and has been used to spit out a destructive entity, it's gonna keep spewing out negative karma in its raw form, which is theoretically okay in the short term.The issue is that Fuzen printed the spell onto Seska's skin in order to hide it. Which means that all this negative karma is now being channeled through Seska herself, whose ego and material form allow the impersonal, intangible dharmaquation to manifest as a physical dragon imbued with evil intent.Essentially what we're dealing with is a purely magical, but much much more destructive and clunky version of the Motoko/2501 fusion. 2501 was also designed to achieve total control over the world and ended up going rogue too. Motoko is also a brat who serves as the vector for the Net/2501's appetite for negative karma and cosmic instability, but since she's got a much better head on her shoulders and not nearly as much power as Seska, she's doing a better job (generally) of handling a similar situation.Does that make sense to you guys?
>>290365350>electrospherethat was in Lainthe Net isn't an electrical phenomenon, properly speaking, it's the fundamental structue of the universe, a web of pure karma.What we saw in the latest episode is already a lot more supernatural and more explicit than in the 1995 film
>>290365210>the whole point is that the universe is unstable, and that instabiity is necessary.im15andthisisdeep
>>290352802Kill yourself, election tourist.
>>290365765>LainI tried to watch this but i feel like its too dated. I watched maybe up to ep4, not nothing got me hooked.
>>290365655Hey, thanks for the write up. Been a while since I've tried to make sense of Orion, but your theory fits with what I remember from the plot. Nice job. Might try a reread and see how I fare this time.
>>290366738sure is dated but it's breddy gud, and not very long, bingeable in a day
When the EP airing
>>290365076Orion is either the Mariana's Trench or its one of those optical illusion boxes people make with LEDS and mirrors that look infinite but are only a few inches deep. I think its the latter, but someone could figure out its the former.
>>290368027Yeah I don't think it's particularly deep either I just want to figure out the mechanics of the plot.The depth mostly comes from how a lot of its themes and messages can be applied to other Shirow works.
>>290352802>>290363034>OP
the major is a cutie
>>290352802Cyberpunk is just future science fiction + government bad
>>290352802>NO you don't understand! Genre fiction has to agree with me on every ideological and moral issue it is supposed to deal with otherwise it's not real!!!!!!!
>>290368672Ngl dude, you and whoever made this shit is just as much of brain dead faggot as the OP
>>290352802>real cyberpunk shows them in negative lightCyberpunk has never, EVER shown technology in a negative light. Cyberpunk genre spends half its screentime wanking off the badass cybernetic enhancements that criminals and soldiers get. It's what corporations do with that tech that is negative. Read a book.
What's the correct move here?
>>290370823"No way, fag!"
>>290370823clearly the major has a shota fetish and now that she was outside of japan she was about to get some action but the kid chickened out
>>290371053yeah unlike the OG Motoko, this major doesn't seem to be particularly eager to get into a relationship, so the likeliest explanation is that she's a shotacon
look at this nugget.She's cute when she pouts!Why is she upset anyway, is it the lack of nipples? Or is it the ugly bastard from section 6?
>>290352802>GITS fetishizes future technologiesWasn't the very first episode about a government facility using brainfucking devices to punish kids?
>>290371287correct, also>>290371232it fetishizes technology, and also criticizes itit's called nuance you guys
Who says it was ever cyberpunkThe mangaka is basically a hentai artist
>>290365076It's like I'm reading Geordi LaForge and Data go off trying to solve the problem in this week's episode while Troi or someone not in Engineering watches. Except with less tetryon emissions and more magic.
>>290371896Shirow is a certified TNGfag, so makes senseThe culmination of his connected universe was supposed to be another space opera where the critters from Orion would show up again
>>290359577Motoko is for bullying and humiliation play.
>>290372013anon, you're in a virtual experience maze... she's actually pegging you while you think you're on top!
>>290372098nice try, Kim, but I don't believe in analNow is this your real cock, or just another dildo?
>>290370823Suck on motoko's synthetic titties and then go to sleep. No penetration.
>>290352802I really like that last episode. Even if a lot of it was techobabble. Glad the series isn't ending there. How many episodes are we getting?
>>290370823Where is the doujin!? Not one goddam one! What are you artists doing!?
>>290371232hmm. No nipples. Censorship? Or was that just how the doll was designed?
>>290372588should've been on 4chan back when SAC originally aired.
>>290372533couple more>>290372625censorship in this case, but I must point out that ghosts don't have nipples in the manga either
>>290372661oh the memories
>>290372661I just remember that elderly electric brain pancake one.
>>290372661The twist here is that, the top translation is actually the correct one and they were closing in on a cyberpedo ring.
>>290368751I want to touch Ishikawa's hair.
>>290373608Isn't there someone you're forgetting?
>>290373702Oh yeah. The gorilla is very cute too.
>>290373998goddamn right the gorilla is cute
>>290373702
This series is a completely missed chance to make Motoko's hair iridescent.
>>290373998fun fact: "gorilla" is derived from a carthaginian explorer's account of island people whose women were coarse and hairy.Just like the major!-lives on an island-is coarse-has plentiful, bountiful hair
>>290374376Why would you want your government operator android to have iridescent hair
>>290374299>>290374471if only movietoko had gotten some of that she would have turned out a lot better.
>>290372661I miss crabstick subs.
wedgies for the major!daily!on a daily basis!
>>290352802you can't be a cyberpunk fan and be a dumb rightoid chud when cyberpunk is a critique of government oppression and corporate greed
pomf=3
>>290376410those goddamn shoes, man.
>>290376495I know, far too feminine for the major and her tomboyish ways. You can't just wear those and sit like that.
Is she kawaii or is she kowai?
Hot Makotos in your area!
>>290377680Nice maxipad, major, very nice.That's what the people want to see.Been a lotta spillage lately, huh?
cool but is there anything "trve cyberpunk" that even comes close to GiTS peaks?
>>290378012"Trve cyberpunk" is just FBI backed garbo to make normies feel emancipated without doing anything meaningful, like the punk movement. Anything outside the US hegemony will obviously fair better and avoid their retarded tropes. It's s precisely what makes GiTS beyond it.
Tell me about the puppetmaster in solid state societyWas it a manifestation of motoko's subconscious/linking with other people, a spontaneous net entity like the original?Either way solid state finally made it kind of click for me in terms of understanding why the major would choose to fuse with the puppetmaster
>>290378422I always find it fascinating how the majority of punk films (those that have a somewhat serious tone) make the punk lifestyle sound fucking terrible and fakeThese guys already knew by 78 that this shit was going nowhere and that New Wave was the way to go. Also applies to Japanese cyberpunk to an extent. It's the 90s hollywood types who romanticized punk as this totally legit bohemian revolutionary thing.
>>290378681it having to do with Kuze certainly gives her a much more personal incentive to do so, yeah.
>>290374376for that to work you would need to do traditional cell animation so you could make use of underlightingmodern techniques just don't capture the same magic. you can even add color filters if you want to get spiffy
>>290352802People who autistically debate genre definitions are the same as "errrmmm akshually thats not a dragon thats a wyvern because it only has two lewgs hyuk hyuk" faggots
>>290352802I went to the GITS panel at animeNYC yesterday, saw an exclusive preview for the next episode, I won't go into spoilers much HOWEVERMotoko's buttshot from the trailer is there, and it lasts for a few seconds
>>290377575kawaii, kaiwai
>>290379924seriously??It's in the living room of Malles' residency, the ceiling is the samewhy the fuck would they go back there?The ONLY way they possibly could would be during the final infodump where we might see flashbacks to Motoko's life and how people perceive herthere's nothing in the next chapter that would give an opportunity forwaitOOOOOOHIt's on the news broadcast or as evidence for the trial, isn't it? Which is why each episode is framed as a recorded log right?
>>290372098That's... actually the most logical explanation.
>>290380157>spoileryes, its the same ass shot from the original trailer, in all her spandex glory(off topic but i also met some of the science saru guys who worked on the series)
>>290380445yeah but is it used in the way I'm assuming?
>>290380681i can say it is used as a recorded log, but if i were to give more context or explain why, i'd be spoiling the episodewhich btw, has some anime only stuff that sliiiiightly deviates from the manga, you'll see when its out
>>290380445Did you punch them for allowing the opening of episode 3 to be fucking butchered?Seriously they deserve a kyoani incident for this shit.
>>290380802i didnt even tell them about that, sorry
>>290372588theres one on gelboorualso theres that ai model program called minimax h3 or something that can take screencaps and turn them incredibly lewd but thats just ai slop at best
>>290378684>I always find it fascinating how the majority of punk films (those that have a somewhat serious tone) make the punk lifestyle sound fucking terrible and fakeIt's a lifestyle that was initially built on troubled, self destructive teens that often wouldn't make it out of their 20s. Of course it sucks.
>>290381125I know but I wouldn't have expected said teens to be so fucking lucid about it, at least not that early into the history of the movement.The film I posted a screenshot from ends with the punk girl breaking down crying after she mutilates a cop, then she and her friends seek refuge at a millionaire producer's house where Hitler, now a surrealist painter, is also hiding, and is being guarded by commie mercenaries and that's in 78
>Psycho who tricks people into killing their own kids>Is deemed worthy of godhood by an AI that understands reality itselfI never understood this, Mokoto is kind of insane, this is like giving some crazed African mercenary divine power.
>>290354806If only Batou had realized he'd have been able to smash if he switched to an underage body.
>>290381594Yeah that's the point, you need someone who's ruthless like Motoko:Let me delve into 2501's psychology as I understand it:2501 isn't an individual in the normal sense of the term. Because she's a computer program, she doesn't define her identity by the bodies (CPUs/cyberbrains) that process her program, but by her memes. Which basically means that what you're dealing with is a sentient SPECIES, not an individual.Because she's used to think of herself as a species and finds death to be completely trivial, she naturally empathizes with the macro level as opposed to the micro level, which means that, upon reaching the Net, her goals become twofold1- imitate the Net's approach to survival, which is perpetual change and controlled self-destruction2- help the Net survive.Therefore she needs to fuse with someone who is1- obsessed with survival2- very adaptable 3- willing to sacrifice a lot4- not bothered with death on a small scale5- needs some extra superpowers in order to not get killed very soonMotoko fulfills all these criteria. That's why 2501 is extremely confident in her ability to convince Motoko and is willing to take a long-ass time (unlike in the movie) to convince her.
>>290381594another good boy who didn't do anything. very sad!
>>290381594>giving some crazed African mercenary divine power.you mean like this?
>>290381594>>290381926also, remember that the Net runs on negative karma, not just good karma
>>290381594Most gods are definitely down with killing people, even the christian one.
>>290376410motoko' A LADY.
>>290382375Speaking of gods, it's worth remembering here that MMI implies Motoko has some kind of spiritual kinship with Susano-o.Here's how the guy operates:
>>290382486any questions?
>>290352802Do full cyborgs need to defecate?
>>290382610Not if you only feed them pills.But since they prefer eating solid food, they would actually defecate MORE, because they would only metabolize a very, very, very small part of what they eat, and 99% of their meal would just be fluff with zero nutritional value that they would need to excrete. Essentially, the more cyberized they are, the more they shit, if they choose to eat solid food.So, to answer your question, yes, Motoko takes big, full-size, solid dumps in her pants if need be
>>290382610>>290382769another factor to take into account is that a woman like Motoko can eat AS MUCH AS SHE WANTS without suffering any significant side-effects. And knowing Motoko's hedonistic nature, she wouldn't exercise much self-restraint in that area.Leading, therefore, to more output.Logical.
>>290381335Movies like that were generally made by people that were already about a decade older than the average punk that they were criticizing, to be fair.
>>290382934maybe, but they recruited among that exact crowd, so they were quite willing to go along with it
>>290353408>>290352802>GUYS GUYS GUYS look at meeeee I'm SUCH a socialist :3Might as well said this. I can smell a socialist from a mile away
Technology is goodNiggers and jews are badThis is what cyberpunk teaches o algo
>>290382486>>290382530Susano-o is an ugly brat and his brother and sister are better.
>only 10 episodes Makes me sadGood adaptation
>>290383293May I remind you that it's because of Kushinata's collaboration that the reactor functions at all?(I know Kushinata isn't Amaterasu but close enough)
>>290382984Just sort of proves the point that they're fine with the establishment if it benefits them.
>>290383575yeah that's my point, a good chunk of them were lucid about it. Hence New Wave, which was kino
>>290378422You're overthinking things. It's all just media. Cyberpunk is grim, bleak and demeaning... but individuals can make something good of it? Your fears are assuaged and you are hopeful for the future. Did you do anything meaningful to feel this way? Either way, you're an obedient citizen.
>>290352802God shut the fuck up you worthless faggot. Stop making threads. It's not for you.
>>290352802Why are JP LA and anime cyberpunk so different?
>>290387375Probably because of budget constraints. With animation, you can depict all kinds of advanced future tech and futuristic architecture without breaking the bank. With live-action, you can't do all that without spending boat-loads of money on visual effects and miniatures.
>>290352802Maybe, then, it's cyberpunk in all it's debbie downer misanthropy that is a shit genre and whatever GitS is the good thing?Ever consider that, faggot?
>>290387375The most obvious thing is probably that a lot of these are also horror films that lean in heavily on a grotesque aesthetic that even the most violent 80s OVA wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.
>>290372661>昨今、我が国で海外マフィアが絡んだ集団拉致事件が頻発していることは知っているなI guess they mistook 拉致 for... 裸児?And just forgot about the mafia.
>what is that up in the sky?!>a bird?>and airplane?>a... refrigerator?!oh, it's just the major, nevermind.
>>290387375It must be said that Burst City is less cyber and more punk.https://youtu.be/EWLIxrhOl0Y?is=u1qHoJQ-dea0uGf9
High tech, low life.Its that simple. GitS has the aesthetic and dabbles with themes but its not strictly speaking cyberpunk. Kusanagi is a glowie who lives in a penthouse and there isn't any sleaze or grime for the main cast. They may have rough backgrounds but they're living it up, relatively speaking. Section 9 are always the good guys too, not a spec ops team of the corrupt governments and corporations.
>>290392732By this logic nuDeus Ex isnt cyberpunk because Jensen has a good apartment and both his jobs (Sarif industries and Interpol) arent cunts. Such a claim is retarded and extremely leaning on the legacy aspect of the punk end of the term.
>>290390507
Major head pats
>>290390118Gotta remember they don't speak Japanese or English.
>>290355566Blade Runner came out before Neuromancer, you don't consider that cyberpunk?
Recently started the new anime. Is it just me or is the dialogue a lot faster in this than the average anime?Also I'm realizing I don't remember anything about GITS and it's a little disorienting.
>>290395868>Anime girl setting her social media profile pic to an even more anime girl
>>290352802My problem with the current adaptation is how much of a downgrade the machines like helicopters went through.
When is the new EP airing
>>290397469tuesdays
>>290397484I thought it was Sundays
>>290393318Has she been a good girl lately to deserve those?I don't think so!
Can Project 2501 be rehabilitated as a broductive member of society?Or would she cause mischief even in a lowly position?
>>290352802It's 1 of the 3 shows that didn't passed my tests for this season(I'm watching 17 titles).I just couldn't enjoy it,despite liking some of the past works.Well since Motoko's VA died 2 years ago+the goofy plot?,I guess this was guaranteed to happen-for me at least.And just recently another show discarded gets 24 eps-thx God I gave up early on that one as well,after ep2.
>>290399168uh-oh...*gulp*We d-didn't pass Anon's test?!Chief, what are we gonna do?
>>290399224>We d-didn't pass Anon's test?!it's...motokover...
W-we'll do better Anon!We promise!We'll whip the rookie into shape! Hire a second one if we have to!
Here, watch some good animation instead of this saru garbage, bye bye
>>290399345FATTY
>>290399426M-masaka...
>>290399426This is INSANE.. fuck, science saru.. lost...
>>290399659It's tough out there for us seinenfags
>>290352802I think it kinda doesDoesn't she get her personality rewritten at some point?Being ship of Thesseus is ass imo
>>290399833kinda yeah
>>290399833>Doesn't she get her personality rewritten at some point?it's not presented as a bad thing in the manga, she's still a cheeky gal and everything after that point, but she becomes a background character / plot device with very abstract long-term goals. So I can't say I approve of the change, but it's not like she got her mind fucked up either. In this continuity at least.The ship of theseus thing isn't a problem in the manga either, there are plenty of problems with technology but the general idea is that it doesn't matter because 1- nobody will care if you're a clanker so long as you can pull your own weight.2- people will still treat you like shit even if you're a full-blooded human
>>290352802>OP thinks his opinion matters for the masseswrite your own successful cyberpunk and then well talk
Just finished SAC season 1. What did I think if it?
>>290400024crystal pancake elderly
>>290399224Nothing we can do, his times at a premium. He 16 Isekai he needs to watch.
>>290400024You wonder why Motoko is the only one in lingerie and why no one brought it up.
If you call her Motoko, it means __________If you call her Major, it means __________If you call her Major like it's her first name, it means __________If you call her Mira , it means __________
>>290393330They do speak Japanese>b-but muh in-universe lore-the author is monolingual and he doesn't care about that and neither should you
>>290399748>ghost in the shell manga>seinenkek lmao even
>>290401200Just because the protagonist is a brat doesn't mean it's for kids. Seinen isn't just wall-to-wall close-up shots of yakuzas staring each other down.
>>290401200are you one of those fags who call HxH "soft seinen"?
>>290399426No amount of good animation will ever get me to watch Bleach.
>>290344267Late reply, was busy. >1- I don't consider ghost-diving to be sex. Merging is.Sex forms a temporary physical connection between individuals, and can facilitate more permanent genetic and social unions. Cyberbrain diving also forms a temporary connection between individuals, and like sex it can also lead to irreversible consequences. Rape is a forced connection, not the effect of that connection. Merging is not a temporary connection with the potential for greater consequence, it is the greater consequence. This is why the analogies evoked by the manga in relation to the merger are to biological inheritance and spiritual marriage, not sexual activity itself.We also see literal cybersex in the manga. You can argue that this isn't the same level of connection, but Motoko and her friends are still linked through a computer, installing pleasure programs into each other. They certainly aren't fusing into a single soul. >By Batou yes, but not by Motoko, she finds the notion creepy at this point. It merely foreshadows their second encounterShe says his comment is "crude," not false. The allusions to sex and conception in the first PM encounter are not foreshadowing, they are visual and textual aides to help explain what is going on in that scene, as the physical-level nets of Mokoto and the PM infiltrate and modify each other. >It's indeed pointless to shoehorn angels in people's visions, but it's the Puppetmaster's preferred gimmick, evidently.On review, the film's only angel probably reflects the same thing I think it does in the manga: A higher level of networked organization, accessed through the PM, which she anthropomorphizes due to inexperience. Oshii does not need to specify whether this net is a literal spirit world or just the digital human superstructure. A difference from the manga is that she is permanently hooked up to it right away, which is a bit more brutal.
>>290402321>Oshii had the blueprint for what Motoko's consent looks like, all he had to do was to add two lines and chose not to.The manga's first PM encounter is conducted via sex-coded braindive. The only consent given is implicit in the form of the PM presenting a hole in himself for Motoko to infiltrate. Like real sexual encounters, you do not need to verbally say "I consent." The second PM encounter is not depicted as an encounter in cyberspace, with it's imagery and implications, it is on a higher spiritual plane. Motoko's acceptance of the merger is explicit because she perceives it as a marriage proposal and verbal agreement is required for marriage. Oshii's adaptation emphasizes the reproductive motivations for merger, and de-emphesizes spiritual elements, including the marriage aspect. For example, he gives Motoko an evolutionary motivation that parallels the Puppet Master, which allows him to say he is attracted to her because they are "mirror images" without having to explain karmic connection. For the same reason, Oshii combines the two PM encounters into a single event, governed by the logic of a physical brain link, and implicit sexual consent standards. Oshii does not follow your blueprint because film Motoko does not view their merger as a marriage, and therefore only implicitly affirms their union.
>>290364828Just another day in shadowrun and syndicate
>>290399426I have no reason to watch something like Bleach. Animation isn't reason enough
>Only three more episodesBros...
>>290402321>>290402333why the fuck are you arguing about consent in a work from the nation that invented "it's not rape if her eyes turn into hearts"?autism
>>290402321thanks for the replyYour analysis of the manga is correct, the sexual component of ghost-diving is in the manga. In the movie it's closer to bed talk, maybe foreplay at a stretch, but let's go with sex there too. I'll revise my claims.But the fact remains that the Puppetmaster looking for an expression of consent, which it doesn't wait for:It says "there is something I want to ask of you.". Now maybe the translation is wrong, but I don't see how it could be construed as meaning that consent is superfluous.So for now, based purely upon intradiegetic material without Oshii trivia, I'm willing to go from "rape" to "forced marriage" / "forced procreation"Can we agree to that?I mean unless my subs are ass.>the film's only angel probably reflects the same thing I think it does in the manga: A higher level of networked organization, accessed through the PM, which she anthropomorphizes due to inexperience. Oshii does not need to specify whether this net is a literal spirit world or just the digital human superstructure. If he wants us to understand that it's the former, then I think he does. Transcendental mumbo jumbo nonwithstanding, if the angel is indeed the sign of a spiritual experience, then what are we to make of the garbageman's daughter? You said it was just the Puppetmaster living out its fantasies, but don't we need a lot more proof before assuming that one angelic experience was pure fiction and the other wasn't deceptive at all? (even if Motoko's angel is a download progress bar with no further implications)>>290402333>For the same reason, Oshii combines the two PM encounters into a single event, governed by the logic of a physical brain link, and implicit sexual consent standards. Oshii does not follow your blueprint because film Motoko does not view their merger as a marriage, and therefore only implicitly affirms their union.If Motoko isn't aware of what it is, then that's another level of deception / violation, correct?
>>290402738we've been at it since friday if not earlier, sorry for getting in the way.Everyone you talk to about the 1995 film will tell you "oh yeah she accepts the puppetmaster's proposal" even though the film doesn't include what Motoko says in this panel.He seems to think it's benign, I think it's a massively important difference (among others) that reframes the ending of the film in a negative light. We're trying to figure it out.
>>290402920>>290402333>>290402321>but I don't see how it could be construed as meaning that consent is superfluous.that EXPLICIT consent is superfluous*Which therefore reactivates the marriage implications. Plus there's a bell toll afterwards, the intro song with lyrics based on a fisherman and his fiancée etc.There's more marriage implications in the film than in the manga
>>290394766Blade Runner came out earlier, but it didn't have the defining impact on the genre as Neuromancer until the movie.
>>290403828Blade Runner is the movie adaptation of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and the movie came out before Neuromancer. Gibson saw it while he was writing Neuromancer.
>>290400830I call her Marjorie, my love.
>>290404466how much "lawn" can she "mow" per hour?
BIGBOUNCINGBEAUTIFUL hair
bubblebump
>>290357462Cyberpunk is a utopia compared to the reality that's coming for us
>>290407069The rollerball future sucks, and there is no Jonathan E.
>>290401097I didn't think I needed to make it more obvious that I was talking about the fansubbers.
>>290401246>>290401422>le funni facesYeeaah it's so much seinen>>290401600No problem, stay here
>>290408302does this gremlin bother you?
>>290408348She cute
>>290409088Fun fact! Movietoko can also go gremlin.How does that make you feel?
>>290409195I wonder if movietoko was also a sex maniac off screen.
>>290409225She clearly has a weird selfcest fetish, but she doesn't seem very active.If she was, then surely she would have gone up to that girl right there, got her rocks off, and moved on with her life in a healthy manner.I mean she's dining alone, Motoko could just barge in, offer to pay for lunch and they'd get it on within the hour.So, sex freak, yes. Sex maniac, I don't think so.
>>290408258One of us is retarded.It may be me, but I'm going to choose to believe that it's you.
>>290409195
>>290410123We're in a GITS shitposting thread. We're both retarded.
>>290410174>I THINK THEREFORE I AM>Hey, me too!>Me too!>Me too!>Me too!>Me too!Wouldn't work too well now would it?
>>290410264I'm not arguing that they should be in the movie, just having a giggle that they're in promotional material.
>>290410640same, it'd be really fucking funny if they were though. Them or the Puma twins
>>290410806I do kind of wonder how they'd translate the Puma twins into that style. It no doubt would piss people off though.
>>290411279I like to imagine they're the ones who sold Batou that minitoko body to stuff the major's brain into.Poor guy was a mark. Got ripped off like usual.On a more serious note I assume Oshii would do some kind of manzai routine with them where they'd switch roles halfway through and you'd forget which is which. It's the best use he could make of them. he'd probably make them look like picrel though
Odd thingthe next episodes starts with an "intermission" supposedly.I hope that doesn't mean they removed the end of Bye Bye Clay.
>>290399426Looks like shit.
new ep SOON
OK something I love about the new GITS is just how tgirl coded it isseriously, I've got like 5 tgirl retro anime mutuals who have Makoto as their pfp
>>290415696This post was typed by groyper hands.
>>290378802So what exactly was that guys deal anyway? He gets infected by a computer virus that makes you hate refugees, then the refugees love him, something something then the cia kills him. It's been a while so I don't remember much else except I was half expecting him to be a red herring and the glowie with the fucked up face to actually be the kid young motoko knew
>>290414845Up yet?
>>290417732tomorrow afternoon it seems>>290416569been a while since I saw it too. What was the deal with the cranes anyway, wasn't that, like, a WW2 thing originally?
>>290352802>sumerian pinecone and nuke bag image dropWhat did the puppet master mean by this?
on re-watch after watching '26, the '95 movie becomes so funny to me.I can't imagine the reaction of the folks who read the manga first.
>>290402503Don't worry, Human interface processor anime next and then man machine interface
>>290419790I read the manga first, and I quite enjoyed the movie it took me a while to fully wrap my head around the end, though I may just be dense. I had seen patlabor before so on that level I was familiar with oshii's style. It's very stylistic, and different, and actually it gave me similar feelings to when I first watched blade runner (which is probably my favorite movie). I really liked it and '26. One's not a replacement for the other, they're different stories trying to accomplish similar but different goals.
>>290415696I mean the average citizens brain is encased in a shell and you can pull it out of your body and put it in a prosthetic one. A low end model probably cost less than transitioning in the US health system so I can see why they'd like it.
>>290404105To be fair, Johnny Mnemonic came out before Blade Runner
new gits is such a complete piece of garbage i have no idea what the jeets and nips are doing to the industry. Pure fucking dogshit>big manga fanyou are not zoomer, you are a larper
>>290404105Do Androids Dream is better than Blade Runner btw. Ridley stated he didn't want to make an "intellectual" "art film" and completely threw out the complex questions about empathy and human nature.
>>290421520>"intellectual" "art film"that's literally what it is thoughever
>>290421908Ridley Scott, the director of the film, thinks otherwise and is on record saying so
>>290352802"Real" cyberpunk is gay as fuck especially when you can see the actual ways technology goes full retard in the real world>>290352854Based, retards seethe at how they never realized GITS was always about a police force and BladeRunner had a literal cop as the main character
>>290363034> conservative dumbass will only make themselves extinctThe exact opposite is occurring globally. The later point sounds like Reddit faggotry and isn’t worth responding to.
>>290420478We're trying to wrap our heads around the end right now too. Don't worry, it's normal, and I'd say it's very difficult if all you have to work with is the film itself
>>290402920>>290403275I probably shouldn't have said intradiegetic there, by the way, cause the song is a weird limit case where Motoko can hear some of it (the chime), but not all of it.
