Today volume 28Previously:>>290368197
It is him again!
It's always that fuck.
>>290403637>I 'll leave it open to interpretation
>>290403374>Burn itThe beginning of a legend.
>>290403785>I WAS ALWAYS THERE>as a cathatonic corpse moved like a puppetwell that loses some impact
>>290403588You could have rescued them, you know.
>>290404027>the fuzzLiterally the first time they are relevant
>>290404070fucking posers
>>290404043>blavat mentionedThat guy ended up so unimportant it's hilarious
DUNDUNDUN
I don’t care about Undertaker’s homolust for Phantomhive dad
>>290404099Bitch, you know the real one is a walking corpse.
>>290404099Top 10 anime betrayals
>>290404099what a dumb bitch
>>290404111Is more over the principle thing
>>290404111He might be a corpse but you know what he isn't? A LIAR
>>290404099Stupid slut
>tfw this charade is still NOT done by the latest chapter
>>290404141>>290404149Yana makes her now much more mature looking
>>290404109I think he's actually lusting for his mother.
>>290404109*lust for Phantomhive granny
>>290404093Such a waste of space, I hope we won't have to see his annoying smug ass again.
>>290404195Ciel is going downtown
>>290404170The Midfords have fought zombies. Edward even knows about ones with higher functioning. So they should be fairly receptive to the idea that Ciel was indeed dead. Which then makes his brother's lies not that big a deal. He was the legitimate surviving heir.
>>290404212>>290404210Kek
>>290404233I mean after this arc (I'm up to date with the manga)
I can’t take Undertaker seriouslyHe was better when he was just this neutral guy instead of an antagonist
>>290404276i think the main problem is how overused the >it was the undertaker all alonggets used
>>290404302I thinks it's really just the school one. If it was just the boat and here it wouldn't feel as silly. Could have just had the headmaster be someone that made a deal with the undertaker. Or really just make Agares the headmaster. It wouldn't change much.
>>290404329Should've just burned down the music hall. It works every time.
>>290404340Honestly that one is on you, you little murder gremlin
>>290404229>all this foreshadowingBravo Yana
>>290404358Really what Ciel should do is burn the manor down (with everyone in it), then skip town, and take a boat to the West Indies or Guam and become a mango farmer with Sebastian.
>>290404396Imagine Elizabeth staying together with Zombiel When she is in her 20s he would still be a shota
>>290403842hot
>>290404436Based Ameritard
>>290404371Nah, his own music hall is the hardest thing to spin against him. If the sphere music hall was drawing blood from its patrons without regard for their safety, which the police now know to be true, then logically there would be more deaths if their patrons started going elsewhere. In fact, the increase in deaths from sphere is pretty strong evidence that the two music halls were not being run by the cult, or else they could have just gotten blood from Funtom's patrons. But Funtom's weren't being taken into private rooms and knocked out.This all hinges on Blavat's testimony. Without it, Ciel's scheme with the music hall would actually exonerate him.
>>290404600>I could have married my dead 9 year old fiance's twin>after being betrothed to him longer than my fiance was even alive>the twin that I would have likely ended up engaged to even if he had told the truth>the horror
>See that people hate Lizzie>"Damn she must have done something really bad">She just had a very normal reaction to a crazy situationOther than siding with the blood thieves i can completely see her side
>>290404671If she realizes this, then she also knows why notCiel lied; no one wanted him back. So why the fuck is she helping to railroad him? Hell, even if she didn't understand why he lied, framing him for murders she knows he didn't commit after he has repeatedly put himself in danger to try and protect is totally fucked. Her understanding why he lied just makes it worse since it can't even be passed off as a grudge.
>>290403533i love undertaker but i'm not sure about his implementation as a villain. it kinda gets too repetitive for me.i knew he would be important, of course the only character who never shows his eyes in a series where eyes are important is hiding something, but still...i would have preferred if he was just neutral/good like in s1, even with all the s1 hate and everything. maybe it's because of the breadcrumbs we're getting about his backstory, maybe it's because i know this mf will die tragically, either redeeming himself at the end or just watching his dreams shatter
>>290403553UT has good taste in plot arcs
>>290403679>The Undertaker, pulling strings
>>290404761i forgive her
>>290403718I WAS WITH YOU THE W H O L ET I M Ei never liked this
>>290403943but he's a mortician, anon. he only knows what to do when people are already dead
>>290404897Yeah, this adds virtually nothing to the story
>>290404897yeah it makes it seens like he was a mastermind behind everything when in reality he was just a puppet
>>290404761 (You)Also, he was fucking 10 when he assumed his brother's identity. After his entire family was murdered. Trying to hold that against him isn't just a knock against Lizzie. It also reflects poorly on the rest of her family and the cops seeing that as somehow proving his guilt instead of as a maladaptive coping mechanism for trauma.
>>290404027Imagine if this was the end of the series like the end of Monty Python and the Holy Grail where everybody just gets arrested
>>290404962>Also, he was fucking 10 when he assumed his brother's identity.He also willingly and calculatingly made a deal with a demon.
>>290404962well in her defence she is 12 or something
>>290404962It's a bad look for Elizabeth since she was indeed lashing out here. Not so for the family, since they just want an explanation, or the cops since Abberline does seem to understand him at least, and for other policemen our protagonist isn't just a kid, but a (former) head of a prestigious family. With the "evidence" found and the fact that they're not supposed to know about the title of "the Queen's watchdog", it's reasonable enough for them to take him in.
>>290404985>even the evil zombie brocon thinks Tanaka should have stayed loyalNot beating the allegations
>>290405167i dont trust Tanaka, he is 100% into the murders
If spare had been straight with Elizabeth from the start I wonder if it would have been better. "My brother and your beloved was sacrificed in a cult summoning. I have gained power and with it I will take revenge on the ones who have stolen from me and you"
>>290403430>>290403637>>290403649GET OUT OF MY HEADI wish "that man" had even 1% the writing/foreshadowing chops as Yana.
>>290404600I like how granny Elizabeth ends up having the same hairstyle as Frances
>>290405270Just punch him unconscious You still are a demon
So, why did Deadciel shoot Agni and tried to murder Soma?
>>290405152Yes so for all of them. The other Midfords should have immediately smelled bullshit. They are intimately familiar with the family. They know very well the age he was when it happened and the state he returned in. They should know beyond any shadow of a doubt that there was nothing nefarious in him assuming Ciel's identity, just as Lizzie openly admits. Which then calls into question everything else. And Edward has seen the undertaker and knows he's behind the zombies.As for the regular cops, they wouldn't know the details. But they can see that he's a kid and can glean from context that he has been living this lie for years, so since he was an even younger kid. Too young for him to have been the mastermind of some elaborate plot. And the real one just so happens to return amidst all this blood cult business? That's more than fishy enough to earn some skepticism even if the ultimate solution is still arresting and questioning him.Abberline knows it's bullshit just like Lizzie. So, like her, his problem is not speaking up. Which we can credit to him not being articulate enough to explain notCiel's deal with the music hall without the aristocrat of evil theatrics. I think he comes out looking the least bad.
>>290405508maybe because they were the only connection that wasn't inherited from the phantomhives. soma is a prince, he could hide/protect them
>>290405270Oi! You got a loiterin' loicense?!
>>290405585>he could hide/protect themHow? THEY are HIS guests and even the off chance, he takes them to India, he doesn't seem to care what happens beyond Ciels arrest.
>>290405508wasnt because RCiel was planting evidence on OCiel and Agni was in the wrong place
>>290403240His smile and optimism:G O N E
>>290405710>our Ciel>optimism
>>290405508Can't let his brother has a true, genuine friend.
>>290403931>>290403945>>290403959Good gag.
Brb
>>290405634he's got a shit ton of money/influence>he doesn't seem to care what happens beyond Ciels arrest.he still considered him a friend, and if ciel had told him he needed help soma would have done anything
>>290405637SEX
>>290405903Ran Mao or Lau?
>dumper is one of "me"Total board saturation.
>>290404897>>290404911He's just doing his creepy yandere act.UT carried his semi-alive everywhere so he could add more memories to his new cinematic record and become a more complex and refined doll.
>>290405957Ran-Mao, obviously or not?
>>290405783Lucky bastard
>>290405988I think it ties in with the comment she made about Sebastian's influence that someone posted. Sebastian drew out "Ciel's" dormant cold hearted brutality. And the undertaker helped stoke Ciel's existing obsessiveness. Each pair was made for one another.
>>290404671>Other than siding with the blood thievesBut that's exactly the issue.
>>290406365Mey-Rin is so sexy
>>290406406>she wrote this after going to England
>>290406411i forgive her
>>290404671>siding with the blood thievesThat's a really big fucking deal to be fair. And a sign that she quite likely wouldn't have been happy if only the "spare" returned.
>>290406449kek
>>290406411Ciel2 stole Ciel1s identity first
>>290406449I mean, it’s not wrong. English food is fucking nasty
>>290406406Another victory for the 4000 years.
>>290406555He sure is angry
>>290406528>I'll TAKE THE TURKEY>>290406555>AND EAT IT
>>290406555hangry
>>290406511But she knows why he did that. She actually seems to be pretty understanding about that part. And yet she still sides with the blood thieves. If she wanted nothing to do with the Phantomhives anymore, that would be more than justified. But helping to kill people for your zombie fiance because you feel bad that you mixed him up with his twin is very much a bad move.
>>290406637Well consider that Ociel is not a nice guy
>>290406555RULES OF NATURE
>>290404276>>290404302I am an UTfag but I agree. I know he's being overused because he's a very popular character but since he's also supposed to be this major player on a grand scale, constantly throwing him out there just cheapens his impact and makes him feel like a saturday morning cartoon villain instead.>>290404337You're 100% correct, UT being there in person was just blatant fanservice.>>290404763>maybe it's because of the breadcrumbs we're getting about his backstory, maybe it's because i know this mf will die tragically, either redeeming himself at the end or just watching his dreams shatterGood, I want this motherfucker to have a tragic backstory, to suffer and to die tragically, we've seen enough of his fake goofy and smug side.
>>290406637>But she knows why he did thatShe knows from Ciel1 who could have spin it the way he wants. Even if the information was the same.
Lizzie did nothing wrong
>>290406555He'll end up like Dietrich if there's no one to rein him in, it would seem. We have Sebastian's strict education to thank for keeping him a beautiful shota.
>>290406662Valid crashout desu.
>>290406796trvth nuke
>>290406662>how dare he coming back after I sacrificed him for myselfKek
>>290406796Thank you OP. But I disagree.
>>290406862>Mey-Rin arcI am ready
>>290406733It doesn't sound like it came from Ciel. She deduced it herself. Half the reason she's so upset is because she realized that, had "Ciel" told the truth, she would have been disappointed that he was the one that came back. So she understands why he felt like he should lie. Probably better than anyone other than "Ciel" and Sebastian.
Why is he so obsessed with the Phantomhives? Did he bone Claudia?
>>290406773>Sebastian is showing his fangsOh shit. He's going to spank Ciel.
>>290406981>other reapers pondering if he noticed them because of something to do with his bloodlineProbably.
This is it for the day until tomorow bros
>>290406836Sebastian can say what he wants. The cultists sacrificed him. "Ciel" was just trying to make the most out of a bad situation. He didn't even realize he was offering up his own soul until after it was already too late. As far as he knew it was "dismiss the demon and get raped to death by the cultists" or "live and get revenge".
>>290407022If Ciel did, I mean.
>>290403533You thought it was Dio, BUT IT WAS I. UNDERTAKER!
>>290407022>Claudia's husband's birth and death dates were also conveniently hiddenHmm
>>290406728The reason UT feels overused is because there aren't any genuine filler arcs in the manga. Some of the arcs could've been pared down but every arc connects directly to the main plot in the end. Since the first half of the story is about him resurrecting Ciel, he is almost always involved in the happenings. The trip to Germany was the only major exception.
What is wrong with the anime?
>>290407168An easier question would have been what is NOT wrong with anime, assuming we are talking about the first two seasons of course.
>>290407063He still reaped the benefits of his death and now that his own brother came back he is pissed about it.
>>290407205Alois. He was perfect, perfect I tell you!
>>290404985>>290406747>Ziel stays in England while Ciel moves to Germany and they continue fighting through proxies for years>mfw WWI was caused by two brats obsessed with each other and their creepy immortal tardwrangles
>>290407105Yeah, grandpa Undertaker is almost too obvious at this point. There was also that moment in the popularity poll chapter with Vincent where he seemed especially sad. Obviously it's not "canon", but I basically take it as everyone being as IC as possible under the circumstances.
>>290407112He still could have skipped the school. I think I get why she used him there (beyond fanservice and her personally liking him). The main goal there, and the justification for Ciel spending any time there, was reaching the headmaster to force him to give answers about the missing students. So that confrontation with the headmaster needs some kind of reveal to give it impact. If it's just some random guy then who cares? But revealing that he's actually a zombie would work fine for that. It would change things a little by making the P4's deflection to the headmaster fully just a ploy to stifle investigation rather than them genuinely thinking there was a headmaster running things. But they were running the school in practice anyway and also consciously interfering with the investigation. So it wouldn't be a big difference.
>>290404170The fuck is his real name?
>>290407296So, would WWII be round 2 then? An immortal shota vs a seething old man resulting in over 60 million dead? That sounds pretty fucking funny all things considered.
>>290403256Eight chapters! A new record!
>>290407168Nothing, it's great. It hits most of the major plot beats, reveals, backstories, and does it in a reasonable runtime. They poured a ton of effort into the animation and London setting which most people completely ignore too.Season 2 is frankly dogshit but it's worth watching for Alois.
While the twist is great and all i find kinda weird that no one even mentions the twin, yes i know the point is that no one cares about the spare and all, but they talk multiple times about how bad it is for losing his parents but never about the brotherSame thing with the name like why OCiel, Lizzie or anyone else just say his name
>>290407452Spar E. Phantomhive.
>>290404423I guess in London it doesn't hurt to always have child sized handcuffs on hand for the street urchins.
>>290407242>now that his own brother came backHe hasn't. He absolutely did not want his brother to die. If he could have chosen instead for them to both live without any of the Phantomhive privileges, he would have. If he could have offered up his own life and soul to truly bring his brother back, he would have. But he couldn't so he did what he thought was the next best thing and tried to become him.Then the puppeteered corpse of his brother comes back and cocks it all up.
>>290407168Did the very common thing of adapting a series not even remotely close to being near done and having to make up a questionably fitting story itself after quickly catching up with the material to adapt. FMA? Hellsing? If you know those and their anime situations, it's similar.
>>290407112This is all still sorta the B Plot since UT and Ciel aren't the masterminds behind the Phantomhive massacre and as far as we know, UT doesn't know who did them in either.>>290404985>three generationsClaudiaVincentCielWould it make sense if Vincent had his own butler who wasn't Tanaka?
>>290407697>UT and Ciel aren't the masterminds behind the Phantomhive massacre>and CielMaybe not mastermind. But that little shit was definitely up to something.
>>290403842After you're done with Undertaker, can I be next? Please.
>>290403959I'm with Undertaker, this is hilarious.
>>290407662>He hasn't. He absolutely did not want his brother to dieI did not say this but he still benefited from his death and now that his brother came back he turned into a annoyance.Not even a "I release him from his undead form." Just any annoyance.
Why are they fighting each other? Shouldnt they be friends?
>>290408728Undertaker can insert any memory into Ciel1 he wants, so of course he will make Ciel hate the spare one
>>290407559>they talk multiple times about how bad it is for losing his parentsA lot of the references to the massacre are pretty vague. It feels like half the time people just say "that day". Dietrich is the most cavalier about bringing up Vincent, but it's mostly to talk about how similar they are rather than the tragedy. It is obviously unrealistic that no one ever mentions his twin once. But a general reluctance to talk about it is understandable. Especially with Ciel himself never bringing it up. Over time people would figure that he doesn't want to talk about him.
>>290408917>Sebastian(dog) is more mourned than the spare
>>290404484You know, everyone, including the servants, saw the reapers come and have a short scuffle, using weird scythes.Anything to say on that? Not really?
>>290409013To be fair, he was a good boy
>>290409050Also weird how no one brings up that the dog and the butler have the same name, It could work for some jokes
>>290403943Seriously.
>>290404905Sorta makes sense as a Grim Reaper, he might still have access to the book so he knows when and where they would die.
>>290408576>his brother came backAgain, he hasn't. That's not his brother. He has it straight from the demon who ate Ciel's soul that such a thing is impossible. And he already explicitly rejected the exact sort of false resurrection that the undertaker has done. It's not "just an annoyance". Everything he's spent almost four years working towards is being ruined in the name of a brother who is never coming back.
>>290409287He outright stated in the boat arc that he does not have his book anymore
>>290404931It also makes the UT look like a mastermind behind it all, but he... kind of isn't?Not until the zombie stuff started anyways, but that's kind of incidental.It's the Queen that keeps sending his watchdog to places where he was doing his zombie testing.This is also why the ending of the school arc sucks. It presents him as a mastermind, and kind of adds nothing by doing so.It's fine that it ended up being tied to him, you can even keep the backstory of the Prefects as is, but he doesn't need to appear directly. You can figure out the rest yourself.UT also feels somewhat undercooked in a series that's so good with building the mystery over time. It doesn't feel there's much to grab to, and his presence in arcs he was not involved in was handwaved with OGiel needing to "be there" which isn't very interesting or really implied.
>>290406796>Lizzie did everything wrongFix'd
Ziel is just another subject to test the long term effects of the reanimation technique before it's used on Albert.
>>290409353I don't think the undertaker comes across as the mastermind behind any of the non-zombie things. More like a stalker. And that's mostly for showing up to Kelvin's place. Having Ciel in one of his coffins in his morgue is among the least strange things he's done.
>>290406365Mey-Rin a cute.
>>290404099O!Ciel was right to never love her
>>290407452Sirius seems the current favorite theory name.
Tanaka is the killer right?
>>290404444Checked-death!
>>290404099>I saw him venting
>>290406365Thank your local chinese for the invention of the cheongsam today
>>290405957Why not both?
>>290409029reapers should only be visible to people with one foot in the grave.everyone present is going to die in their sleep tonight
>>290406365Aw, man, Ciel got the worst one.
>>290409813As much of an honorfag as Edward is, I could see this destroying her relationship with him too once everything becomes clear. He wasn't OK with the P4 killing scumbags who were beating the shit out of his classmates. I doubt he's going to be OK with his sister helping to kill random innocent people to feed a zombie and then framing someone else for it. Some of those victims were really young too.
>>290407452Hiroyuki
>>290407031I don't know why but I thought that was bullfighting. That would make for a good one of these, though. Or something.
>>290407060Thank you, OP!
>>290406981Yes. Not sure if that counts as spoiler since this is about Yana Toboso's old tweets but she once posted something around the idol arc like>daughters usually look like their fathers and sons look like their mothers>btw Edward is supposed to have a very similar face to Undertaker'sThen you notice that Elizabeth and Edward's mother kinda have similarities with Undertaker too.
>>290410460Isn't Edward's mom, Vincent's sister? Making Ciel and Edward/Elizabeth cousins?
>>290410533Yes that's exactly it. Frances is Vincent's little sister. She's a cool and crazy strong woman with long silver hair, she must have gotten her freak strength and hair color from Undertaker. Which means Elizabeth was able to see Grell and have insane strength because she's Undertaker's granddaughter, the same way Ciel was able to spot these two shinigami in Germany and they were surprised.
>>290410533Yes. It is a first cousin marriage.
>>290404248So that's the fake lads real name then? Both of them are just as bad as each other What a perfect fake our Ciel ended up being...>>290404600>>290404615And yet not understanding that perhaps his imposter status meant more than she realised? That even her fake marriage proposal had become more real than she expected. Always bet on the fake that has to strive, girl.
>>290410627>the only reason the Ciels are mostly normal is because Vincent married a sick girl
>>290410650We don't know his real name yet. Based on an old guidebook, the star theme and Ciel meaning sky in English, our!Ciel's real name must still be related to stars, planets, or the sky in general as well. The old guidebook was released way before that arc started, and Yana gave a list of names she considered for the MC before the manga started, the only example I remember is Astre, which is a word that means star or planet in French depending on which celestial body we're talking about. Ciel sounds a lot more natural despite not being a real name but that's still a hint.
>>290403667>>290403679>What does it matter if he's alive or dead>How is he different from a living human like you?Ehrm, Undertaker... you already told him how you make living dolls. He may look the part and act the part, but "Ciel" knows fully well his brother currently isn'tt that different from pic related. Just, in human skin.
>>290410800Fuck, those things were insufferable. I had totally forgotten about their existence before you brought this up.
>>290410650I don't think Sirius is his name. He doesn't seem to react to it at all. He's even surprised when Blavat does the fakeout and calls him that. If it was his actual name he would have realized what was about to happen as soon as Blavat started talking about "Lord Sirius".>>290410749Soleil would be cute. And have a kind of sing song sound to it when spoken with his brother's name.
>>290410852They were fucking creepy.
>>290406365Why is it always fujos who draw the best girls?
>>290409861>cute little brother>black evil energy>called SiriusIt's not much to go on but Welcome Back Ghost Game!
>>290410749>AstreI can see it being Aster. Though knowing his real name will be weird anyway, we've known him as Ciel for long.
>>290403613same pose same voice
>>290403754someone mentioned the sext bondage corset coffin
>>290403959>othello invented the home gym
>>290407254This.
Qrd on Alois
>>290404600Lizzie deserves happy ending where she gets impregnated repeatedly by not!Ciel
>>290410982>"Ciel" when he tries to tell you his real name
>>290411138He's basically Ciel if Kelvin had gotten his hands on him.
>>290404099did they fuck
>>290411143After Sebastian removes her limbs.
>>290403829Why are we suddenly ok with grim reapers being out in public like this and exposing themselves? Tanaka and the other servants aren't supposed to be part of the occult stuff, just the criminal underworld. This is quite the breach of the masquerade, no?
>>290406596Feed the shota>>290406662Love this tantrum
>>290404671LIzzie is 100% right, plus she's stuck between a rock and a hard place.>>290404761The point is not Ciel's reasons. Valid or not valid, it's all about something else. Half the point is that he was willing to maintain them for all his life. Their marriage would never, ever be a honest one. Maybe you could respect MC more, given his sacrifice, but the chances for love are gone. He's a lie built on a hill of lies.Btw if you reread the previous volumes you'll notice it's Sebastian's fault, LOL It's Sebastian who prevented an interaction between the two before she disappeared.The other half of Lizzie's point is that this shattered her self confidence for many valid reasons. She's clinging to what she knows. And in her state, manipulating her is piss easy.
>>290410141Did you want to see him in a cheongsam or something?
>>290409029>>290410119I feel like they have some passive camouflage mechanic where they blend into the background, but once you notice them they are visible. So their stealth doesn't do anything if they stand in the middle of the room. Once everyone got distracted by Blavat and gang their stealth kicked in again and they slipped away.
>>290404792One day this dude is going to meet a horrible end, you can just tell.>>290404806 CIel isn't even speaking to him.>>290404841Now I wonder, beside the four stars and maybe UT, who did Blavat see.
>>290411138He's a cautionary tale for what would have happened to MC if he was foolish enough to start developing feelings for the demon he signed a contracted with. People can shit on Season 2 all they want but I really love his character study.
>>290411309It was fine until Othello started talking about reapers. Will showed off his death scythe in front of the circus, so Grelle showing his chainsaw is apparently OK.Can't trust pencil pushers to do things right.
>>290411409Since you mention it, yes.
>>290404985I bet he's staying because he wants to check how this Ciel works.
Can old readers tell me about other fan theories that were popular before the "there are two Ciels" theory was proven correct?
>>290405217Thing is, Ciel can't be honest with Lizzie. No matter what. He didn't choose to become Ciel Phantomhive out of personal gain. Once he made his choice, he had to live his life as Ciel, no exceptions whatsoever.
>>290411608>Ciel Phantomhive out of personal gainYes he did
>>290405137BASED
>>290403446>>290403461The progression from >Tanaka explaining what happened that night>Ciel's memories of that month in hell, and the contract making with Sebastian>Back to present dayis a bit awkward. It's safe to assume that basically the only information that was actually revealed to the people present were Tanaka's memories of the night, since they're no reaction to the reveal that Sebastian is a demon. I feel like this leaves the servants very little information to understand the full picture. I guess they don't need to, they'll still be loyal to the person who actually saved / gave them a new life, but still, from their POV, their savior must come across as a huge conman.
>>290405637SEX HAS ARRIVED
>>290406747I love that he calls it "the ghost of my brother". He ain't buying that UT bullshit.
>>290411385>the chances for love are goneNo one is saying she has to love him. Being upset about being lied to is one thing. But it's not a reason to frame him for murder. Or help commit those murders.And that makes his reasons and her knowing them relevant. She knows he wasn't lying out of malice. So framing him isn't her taking revenge. She doesn't really have a justification, a reason for her to believe that doing this is the right thing. All she's got is her guilt about feeling that her love towards the real Ciel was fake/inadequate and I guess trying to atone for that by assisting his corpse no matter what. Which is not a terribly sympathetic motivation.
Yeah Elizabeth siding with the blood thief and the undertaker who was behind a bunch of mysterious deaths is not a good luck. I hope she dies.
>>290411064That was me. If I remember correctly, there were other coffins with corsets on them, but those only had one each.
What an anon said a bit back about feeling like Homer at the lesbian bar in these threads as someone unironically reading just for the plot is true(and funny), but I don't really mind it.It reminds me of hanging out at the anime club with weird fujos like 15 years ago except I'm not planning on fucking any of you.
>>290411409I was thinking more of what the other guys were wearing, but I do have to agree with >>290411523.
>>290411795And quite rightly too.It's just another zombie, a massively more advanced one, but a zombie none the less. There is no soul(well, not belonging to the young Phantomhive at any rate) there driving that meat golem.
>>290411795He's a realist after all. No matter how much he looked up to his brother, it is a fact that he died back then, and he's not going to believe that he could just come back when not even a demon's magical powers could do it.>>290411955You and me both.
>>290411678Everything he did was out of personal gain except for one thing only: pretending to be his brother. He picked revenge because he assumed that was what his brother would have wanted.
>>290412129No he picked because was the only to justify his existance without facing all his traumas, to be the Earl of the family chasing an useless revenge that fulfills nothing
>>290410627>>290410460>>290407365>>290407022>>290406981Hmmm
>>290411749The undertaker comes out after and confirms that the real Ciel was, in fact, dead. So the version they heard was whatever Tanaka actually said about the attack, the real Ciel dying while they were both captive, and then their master assuming Ciel's identity after escaping. That doesn't look that bad. Especially to that lot, a story like that would be relatable.
>>290412273His revenge is no more useless than any other. Certainly some claim that all revenge is pointless (not sure I agree), but it's a natural desire. Especially for a crime that great, it would be odd for him not to want revenge.
>>290411608>He didn't choose to become Ciel Phantomhive out of personal gain.I am pretty sure he did. He stated he did this form himself
>>290403985>AIEEEEEE TASUKETE GURERU-SAMAAAAAA
>>290403727>You were sitting on ME this whole time!
>>290412648Revenge=\justiveIf your revenge involves lying to everyone, making a deal with the Devil, have only bureacraut relationships and so much worse things than It is not something noble
>>290404099fujos justified
>>290413092Revenge is the primeval form of justice. Before laws and governments, vengeance was the threat discouraging misdeeds when altruism alone was insufficient. And one of the main purposes of law is to grant the state the authority to codify and administer vengeance to minimize vendettas. While the merits of any individual quest for revenge can be debated, the instinct itself is pro-social and necessary for human organization to be possible.As for this specific quest for revenge, it is against someone with the power and willingness to slaughter a well defended defended family and all of their servants and subject their young children to prolonged torture and rape. It should go without saying that removing someone like that from the world would be a good thing. The biggest problem here is that responsibility for administering this justice has fallen to a child unable to do it without sacrificing his soul, in more ways than one.
>>290405167I don't think Tanaka is on either side at this point desu. Not that I trust him either.
>>290406406>a tradition 4000 years in the making
>>290406596I'm pretty sure that's duck
>>290406506If Ciel gives up, then Sebastian is free to take his soul, right? He doesn't have much of a choice in the long run.
>>290413447This is really primitive you shouldnt try to get back at robber for yourself there is a police for thatAnd what does this achieve? Ciel could've just tell the truth build a new life with friends, go to university, have a fiancee and so much more instead he just keeps ruining his life even more when he have all the chances for a new beggining, i remember one anon that said that Yana doesnt develop the story more in later chapters because it would only be tragedies for the OCiel entourage and i agree everything points to tragedy and all on Ociel to blame
>>290406747its not like sebastian would let him run away anyway right? doing so would mean giving up on revenge and void the contract.
I hope you guys are ready for 80 chapters of irrelevant nonsense starting from tomorrow
>>290413943>If Ciel gives up, then Sebastian is free to take his soul, right?Yes, as was (nearly) the case in the Emerald Witch arc.
>>290412129>He picked revenge because he assumed that was what his brother would have wanted.No he didn't. He wanted revenge purely for himself
>>290409353>It's the Queen that keeps sending his watchdog to places where he was doing his zombie testingIf the Queen is using this as an opportunity to see if she can switch one (less loyal) dog for another using the corpse of the dead twin, and everybody else immediately goes along with it and arrest our Ciel on the spot, it makes sense that Ciel would be nothing but pissed.
>>290414068>characters' backstories>irrelevant*sigh*
>>290410141I think the prince outfit is very cute, leaning in more on the shota aspect though.
>>290414244We already know Finnian's entire backstory
>>290414244didnt the original anime already show all their backstories?
>>290410627>>290407365>>290407022If anyone is interested, I can put together a compilation of all the hints (and there's plenty, not as many or/and obvious as the ones for 2CT though) supporting the UT being Claudia's lover theory in tomorrow's thread.
>>290413026That's how he recovered his consciousness.
>>290414490Indeed. They're the exact same backstories but the manga fleshes them out a bit more.
>>290414545do it
>>290414244Well yes the servants are fun but they don't matter enough to receive 10+ chapters of their backstories, the only one who should get this kind of focus is Tanaka as he's been around since Claudia's time and because of the mystery behind his survival during the attack.
Who did It better?
>>290404099>All these anons mad at Lizzie when O!Ciel lied to her for years about her love being alive, pretending to be him, and would continue to lie for her entire lifeThis is entirely O!Ciel's fuckup. There were a select few people he should have told the truth to, Lizzie being one of them. If you were in a situation like R!Ciel then you would want your waifu/husbando siding with you here and not a pretender.>>290410176She wasn't directly helping to kill, only keeping silent. And it's not like O!Ciel doesn't have a lot of innocent blood on his hands as well.
>>290414549What a brocon. A whiff of that ass brought him back to life.
>>290414862>This is entirely O!Ciel's fuckup.You know how when you literally see someone get fucking disembowelled infront of you, a demon outright says he ate his soul, and you end up digging through hits guts for a ring, and then burn the building down, you kind of assume someone will stay dead. His whole status and his revenge plot depends on essentially having assumed his older brother's name, so, no shit he'd want to keep mum.
>>290404671>Other than siding with the blood thievesShe's marrying to the Phantomhive family so it's not like her hands would forever be clean. Also framing him for a crime he didn't commit is something O!Ciel did to that guy in the murder mystery arc (which also caused innocents to die). He didn't make people die from blood loss but he did burn a bunch of kids alive so it's not like a murder charge isn't owed.You can't sensibly hate on Lizzie without hating on O!Ciel as well.
>>290415119Yes there's good reason to keep it a secret completely but that does run some risks and is unfair to some people. He was viewed as a spare anyways so the Midfords would be fine with him being the new "Ciel."
>>290403971>yetSo UT's main goal is just getting the brothers back together maybe also killing the queen to avenge Claudia/Vincent and once that's done, he couldn't care less if he survives?
>>290414862>There were a select few people he should have told the truth toThat would have been a totally unnecessary risk. A single slip could jeopardize his whole revenge plan. Putting all your faith in a 13 yo girl's ability to act the part every day of her life would have been way too risky. >you would want your waifu/husbando siding with youShe's not, he doesn't love her romantically. And even if he did, it's not like they have a future together. As far as he concerned, he's got a couple of years left before his contract is fulfilled and Sebstian claims his soul. They won't even be together long enough to a actually get married.
>>290404897New reader but i feel its more ut being a little shit and having a laugh so i like it
>>290414862>he should have entrusted his most important secret to a 10 year old girlAnd no one is mad at Lizzie for being upset about the lie. If her reaction was "Sorry, kid whose name I forgot, we can't be together." that would be entirely understandable. Not joining a murder cult.>She wasn't directly helping to kill, only keeping silentFirst of all, keeping silent is directly helping. But do you think Blavat was keeping her around just to look pretty? She may not have been drawing blood, but she was definitely helping the cult in other ways. Like being a guard dog against anyone snooping. She is an accomplice in those deaths, both morally and legally.>it's not like O!Ciel doesn't have a lot of innocent blood on his handsHe's an asshole. Everyone knows that. Edward has never liked him. He warmed up to him a bit after the boat incident but he still reacted to seeing him at Weston with irritated questioning of why he was there. And he only stood up for "Ciel" when he had definitively proven Maurice was lying.Compare this to how much Edward loves and trusts Lizzie. When he finds out the extent of what she's done, I would expect him to be heartbroken.
>>290415268Just because Ciel can keep it a secret doesn't mean Lizzy or the rest of her family could. The more people who know a secret, the harder it is to keep, and only O!Ciel knowing would make it much easier. Plus, Lizzie could potentially be tortured for information, or even just thoughtlessly letting it slip. Or, if he was around long enough for them to be adults, just getting too drunk and letting it out. As the other anon said, she's a 13-year old girl. They are not natural conspirators. It would also probably make things a bit awkward between them to begin with. Finally, she just plain and simply doesn't need to know.
>>290414793Flirting vs harassment.
>>290414000>there is a police for thatTo threaten a form of deterrent vengeance via imprisonment. Which is fine and good. But if that system breaks down then primitive is what you have.>Ciel could've just tell the truth build a new life with friends, go to university, have a fiancee and so much more insteadNo he couldn't. Sebastian is ready to eat his soul the instant he wavers in his resolve for vengeance. Even while catatonic and hallucinating, him merely considering giving up was taken by Sebastian as an invitation to chow down.And without this pact, he would be dead anyway. It didn't necessarily have to be for revenge. But the only way he was leaving that ritual alive was by selling his soul to Sebastian. His normal life ended on his tenth birthday without any action or decision on his part and nothing he could do would ever be able to reclaim it.
>>290403971c-cute...
It should be well within the crown's power to just say nuh uh to original Ciel's schemes, right? It would take 2 seconds for them to figure out who is the real watchdog and for the Queen to pardon our Ciel.
>>290403931>>290403945holy shit. that's like a new level of pathetic. lmao
>>290416034So long as the survivor serves her, she has no reason to care who wins. In fact, she'd probably prefer the original. If he can turn his brother into his own soulless puppet, he'd be happy as a clam and never have any reason to betray her.
>>290415766>Sebastian is ready to eat his soul the instant he wavers in his resolve for vengeanceBecause OCiel wished for that had he just said that he wanted to be served until he was 80 it would happen(probably) but nope he choose revenge for selfish reasons
>>290405159This wordplay is so good it makes up for "devil of a butler"
>>290416266I wonder who's more unathletic between him and pic related
>>290416468I doubt that would have worked. When Sebastian first shows up he is specifically shown surveying the cultists, hearing their wishes, and then deciding they're not the one he's after. Without "Ciel's" burning desire for vengeance in his heart, I don't think Sebastian shows up to the ritual at all. I guess you could say he could completely change his outlook and emotional state to make a different wish from the desire that brought Sebastian there. But that's unreasonable.
>>290416634Your Flins looks weird...
>>290415435>>290410176>>290404730>>290404710I have the impression and theory that Edward will help Sebastian and "Ciel," that he will join them, that he might "betray" R Ciel and think that this is best for his sister, and I got the impression that after what happened at school and in the Idols arc, he started to like Ciel much more than "Ciel."
>>290415333>A single slip could jeopardize his whole revenge planHow so? I can't think of a single adult that would care that the spare lived and became the new Ciel instead of Ciel himself living. It's not like O!Ciel's very existence was secret.>She's not, he doesn't love her romantically...You got the Ciels I was talking about flipped around there. O!Ciel is Our Ciel, the MC. R!Ciel is real Ciel.
Is there a reason OCiel's name has been a secret so far? Surely it can't be that important?
>>290417575I think its to drive the point that he was so unimportant that he wasn't even dignified with a name
>>290417575if its not important then why reveal it? i won't be surprised if we don't get the name until the very end
>>290415435>Not joining a murder cult.>Like being a guard dog against anyone snooping.Acts done to protect and help her fiancé which is her duty. She has also protected O!Ciel who is a literal child murderer. Her hands are dirtied no matter which Ciel she chooses to support. Which was always going to happen since the Phantomhive business is a bloody one. There's no way to be in that family and stay clean.
>>290415465But who would actually care? The adults in high society that knew of the twins viewed O!Ciel as a spare so what's wrong with him fulfilling that role?>Finally, she just plain and simply doesn't need to know.I think a wife deserves to know who the man she is marrying really is.
>>290417088Given that this is a Black Butler thread, I was expecting someone to say Violet instead
>>290417510>How so?For one they mentioned how the inheritance process would have taken a long time if O!Ciel came back as himself (and it could have been very expensive), and that's assuming the Queen would even give him her endorsement. There was probably a sense of urgency too, to get your title and assets as soon as possible in order to maximize the chances of ever finding the culprits. Also, O!Ciel already overheard Francis' abysmal opinion of him, how she thought it would be preferable for the Phantomhives to relinquish their duties than letting him become the Earl. Vincent himself somewhat agreed. He knew he already had a reputation as the unhealthy child unfit for the job, and that could have set him way back when trying to build his network of connections. Again, assuming the Queen would even give him the opportunity to prove his worth. >You got the Ciels I was talking about flipped around thereI assumed you typo'd because otherwise it came across as a non sequitur with the rest of your paragraph
>>290405637ENTER SEX
>>290416034Thats why I'm thinking this >>290414137
>>290407452Sora
>>290405637>>290405675>>290405695>>290405740SEXSEX SEXSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEX
Just realized that the Phantomhives are basically glowniggers
>>290410912High sense of aesthetic
>>290417714This is retarded. She helped fight off zombies one time so that makes it OK and equivalent to murder children to feed a zombie? In the three years she was engaged to the imposter he never once required her to commit a crime for him. She's back with her real fiance for three weeks and she's already helping exsanguinate London street urchins. If the fake had ever asked her to do anything like this, should would have turned on him and actively worked against him along with the rest of her family.
>>290407567underrated
>>290404070>>290404084>I wasn't, I'm the real Cieltry to prove otherwise big bro>lizziesurely a testimony for a child is not that important
>>290418435And Tanaka?
>>290417863>For one they mentioned how the inheritance process would have taken a long time if O!Ciel came back as himselfAbberline doesn't know that Ciel has one hell of a butler. >how she thought it would be preferable for the Phantomhives to relinquish their duties than letting him become the EarlThat one is fair. Though her opinion on him might change after seeing how he changed.>I assumed you typo'd because otherwise it came across as a non sequitur with the rest of your paragraphNo, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy that many anons hating on Lizzie probably have. If you were in a situation similar to real Ciel being gone from society for several years and someone else pretended to be you in the meantime, then you would want your waifu/husbando to take your side instead of the fraud's. If you are mad at Lizzie for "betraying" O!Ciel then you would have to be fine with being NTR'd in the scenario I just mentioned.
>>290406365sasuga Yana
>>290418494not sure even tanaka can, they are twins after all. Unless they have some scar or something like that to difference them
>>290418365She is going to be the wife of Earl Phantomhive. The Earl will kill innocents, let innocents die, and allow some criminals to continue their operations while performing his duty to the Queen. O!Ciel as already done all of these things. And the Earl's wife is expected to stick with him thick and thin despite all this. So Lizzie's actions now aren't that different than what she would have been doing in the future.
>>290410460Lizzie doesn't look like her dad though
>>290411566I don't remember any particular old popular fan theory atm, much less one that got confirmed. Oh, maybe the one about UT being a shinigami? But that was already spoiled by the anime.
>>290418702She has softer features like his younger self while Frances and Edward's are sharper.
>R!Ciel's thoughts while he had old man dick lodged in his ass and his face buried in granny pussy.>heh, keikaku doori
>>290404671Yana keeps toying with my heart to push me into her rapey and very hot gay pairingDAMM YOU!!!!!!!!!!In all seriousness my girl is innocentShe got stuck between two hard choices and most likely manipulated by cielrealCant really blame her
>>290419716Yeah but siding with NuCiel seething is more fun
>>290418499If I had been rape murdered and my twin brother who barely survived the same had assumed my identity to make his return to society easier and then I somehow came back to life, I would not hold it against him or try to fuck things up for him. But then this isn't really Ciel. However insane and evil he might have been in life, this puppet version is certainly worse. So I don't really blame him in the same way you wouldn't blame a rabid dog for attacking you. Lizzie is still a living human, though. She has agency and self control. She knows that helping her zombie fiance feed on the living is an extremely bad idea, but she's doing it anyway.>>290418694They are absolutely different. Being the glownigger in charge of keeping the underworld in check is not remotely the same as feeding on the life force of the innocent. Despite how much of a bastard "Ciel" is, the only actual innocents we've seen him kill were those kids who would have died without his intervention too. And that was him violating his orders as the watchdog. Everyone else he deals with are criminals and hostile foreign governments. And at no point did "Ciel" ever involve Lizzie in any of it. The one time she got involved was on a ship she was on for her own reasons.Lizzie has only been with the real Ciel a few months and already he has her helping to intentionally target and kill innocent civilians just going about their lives, something that not even "Ciel" does himself, let alone would ever order her to do.
>>290418196>Sebastian, I command you! Deal all the crack to the London vagrants!
>>290419716>stuck between two hard choicesThere was an extremely easy third choice of neither helping Ciel nor remaining engaged to his imposter.
>>290410912>fujosIs she really one?When she explained why so many German soldiers in the werewolf arc were women, she said it was fanservice for herself
>>290414549That's looks fucking retarded
>>290421717>getting to roast pretty women alive, or shooting them in the back of the headclassic fujo moment
>>290414549lmao
>>290419934>If I had been...The scenario isn't about blaming the fraud at all, it is about how YOU would want YOUR waifu/husbando to stick with you and not the pretender.Also, as far as we know, Lizzie doesn't know that he is a soulless puppet. She wasn't there when UT explained how the zombies are made. So while he is undead, he is still Ciel.>Despite how much of a bastard "Ciel" is, the only actual innocents we've seen him kill were those kids who would have died without his intervention tooThat was his cope that he didn't murder a bunch of kids.>And at no point did "Ciel" ever involve Lizzie in any of itNote how I said in the future. Do you really think that Earl Phantomhive's wife is left completely in the dark of the glownigger activities?Also, if you want to blame Lizzie guarding R!Ciel as helping kill innocent civilians then you have to blame O!Ciel as well since he purposefully took actions to increase R!Ciel and UT's kill rate.
>>290421717She drew bl manga under a different name before Black Butler. Looking it up, she used to be a huge Togainu no Chi and Prince of Tennis fan and wrote bl doujin before going pro.
>>290422422Tbh, looking at pic related maybe some inspo for Black Butker came from it. At least, visually.
>>290422409>it is about how YOU would want YOUR waifu/husbando to stick with youNo, I would not want my 14 year old not even married to me waifu to throw her own life away to stick with my corpse. And Lizzie doesn't have to know how they're made to know messing with zombies is a bad idea. The ones she met before tried to eat her.>his cope that he didn't murder a bunch of kidsHe fully acknowledges that he murdered them. And that wasn't even his justification. His cope was that they were never going to recover anyway so he was mercy killing them. What I'm saying is that his worst crime so far was killing kids that were already about to be killed. This blood cult is killing people who would have otherwise had their whole lives ahead of them. What "Ciel" did was unquestionably bad, but this is even worse.>left completely in the darkNo. Lizzie was already not in the dark. But "Ciel" was going out of his way to not involve her to the greatest extent he could. And, based on Vincent marrying a sick frail girl, I doubt he was much different. I see no reason to believe "Ciel" would have ever willingly involved her to the extent she is with the cult.>then you have to blame O!Ciel as well since he purposefully took actions to increase R!Ciel and UT's kill rate.No I don't. Agni was wrong. The only people responsible for those deaths were the cultists (including Lizzie). They were the ones choosing to steal people's blood and kill them, no one else. If Scotland Yard had shut the music hall down because of the evidence of people going missing from there, it would have had the same effect. Would that mean they were responsible for the deaths?
>>290403374FINALLY
>>290403533Another UT case, yayIt's like the fishing line from conan at this point
>>290403637>>290403649AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
>>290403718That's fucking creepy and I mean it
>>290414862I understand the reason and even sympathy with her but when I thought about how our ciel feel it just hurtsI just prefer our ciel over her, I guess
>>290404351That face of Sebastian spells checkmate to meIt's rare to see him swallow the defeat
>>290412129I believe part of him wanted to be his brother as well, that's why he felt so terrified when his brother asks him "why did you do that"Though the idea is just some flashy thought that nobody will take it seriously even himself, but having it thought once still frightened him as how things ended.At least that's my opinion
It would have been anti-climactic, but Ciel could have totally lawyered his way out of this right then and there. The question of which brother is who, which is supported only by biased and unreliable testimony anyway, is totally irrelevant. The estate and the title of earl never passed from Vincent to R!Ciel. Both sons were missing and presumed dead so the crown repossessed everything. And by the time O!Ciel resurfaced, R!Ciel was dead, as confirmed by public testimony from the undertaker himself. So he would have been ineligible to inherit. O!Ciel was then awarded his title and lands back by the queen. O!Ciel's only legally dubious action would be his taking of a new name without going through whatever process existed for that in 1880s England. Lizzie could use that to nullify their engagement. But it would have no effect on the legitimacy of his title. As for the cult, the only evidence connecting it to O!Ciel is testimony from a serial killer conman and the blood found at the manor. But the other most likely suspect is acknowledged by everyone to have arrived there before O!Ciel and, unlike R!Ciel's unproven accusations of stolen identity, provably impersonated O!Ciel to his servants to gain admittance. Furthermore, there is no logical way to spin the Funtom music hall as furthering the aims of the cult. There isn't even an opportunity for blood to be collected at Funtom. So pulling away Sphere's guests, exposing it, and getting it shut down just shuts off the blood entirely, for which there would be no apparent gain if O!Ciel truly was the cult leader. On the other hand, R!Ciel has been missing for the better part of four years and has only just now resurfaced right as this cult has been exposed. And he is accompanied by a strange man who confesses to reviving the dead through unnatural means, a fact that can be corroborated by Edward.
>>290406365Sex with Mey-Rin
>>290407242I would pissed off too if everything I did after I took his position were robbed by a death puppet
>>290406796Thanks OPYes I almost agree except siding with the blood thief>B-butNO BUT
>>290406662It is pretty fucked that the second his brother showed back up, nothing he ever did mattered to anyone. All of his fears and insecurities instantly validated. Valid crashout indeed.>>290406717Interesting that Sebastian is so shocked. I doubt it's just the table manners. He's seeing a side of Ciel he never knew existed. And it almost seems like it worries him.>>290410141I think it was to give him a bigger, fuller silhouette for his rant. He looks totally different from his usually form fitting clothing. But it works well for him dropping any pretense of self control and fully submitting to his rage.
>>290424539>Interesting that Sebastian is so shocked. I doubt it's just the table manners. He's seeing a side of Ciel he never knew existed. And it almost seems like it worries him.More like he came a little. It's exactly the kind of dark, spiteful, self-centered resolve he wants to nurture. He basically witnessed his future meal getting 10% more delicious instantly.
>>290423492honestly kind of annoying how everyone became retarded and disregarded ciel immediately because his twin showed up. reminds me of how the black knights immediately turned on lelouche in r2 because ougi wanted brown pussy. in this case lizzy wanted zombie cock.
>>290424841>honestly kind of annoying how everyone became retardedTbf it's how Ciel succeeded until now
>>290403943Well, he did try...
>>290424841I don't think anyone became retarded. They just have emotions and personality flaws. Like Lizzie pretty much perfectly understands the situation. She just feels so much guilt that it overrides her reason.
Next>>290428445
>>290424841Also, O!Ciel didn't stick up for himself, which is consistent with his character. There are times when he is confident and charismatic enough to bullshit his way out of things. But it is largely an act. He is actually extremely insecure and emotionally fragile. Having a plan he can rely on puts him at ease and lets him pretend to be cool and collected. Even knowing that his opponents are also scrambling is enough to let him think clearly. But when his plans blow up in his face and everything is against him, he gets paralyzed. In the Maurice time mix up with vastly lower stakes he was just completely stuck with no capacity to smooth talk like he has shown he can do. He just had to retreat and come up with a plan while not on the spot. R!Ciel's reveal is a worse version of that. O!Ciel was aready frazzled from the Soma situation and the schizo carving on the wall. Then he walked into a fully surrounded nightmare interrogation so bad it triggered his rape dungeon PTSD. He couldn't say anything in his defense. And so even the people who knew it was all bullshit didn't feel confident speaking up on his behalf.
