The reason I do not like ainz as a character (aside from being a boring power fantasy) is that he's not evil enough for that sort of villainy to be amusing and yet he is also too evil to be relatable, he just sort of occupies a shitty middle ground, too evil to be likeable, not evil enough to be likeable.
>>291233074Ainz is simply basedhe's not trying to be evil
He's extremely bland, basically an NPC. Overlord is carried by the guardians
>>291233074>i hate him because be isn't cartoonishly evil or a self insert characterThanks for the glowing review, homo faggot
>>291233074He's likable in the chibi shorts.
It gets really bad in the later novels, where he does comically evil shit out of obligation. Like, he doesn't even want to, he does it because the plot said so.
>>291233074I'm guessing your only exposure to him is the dogshit anime?
>>291233323NTA but I do agree that his internal monologue gags got old really fast, and his transition into the character is never particularly interesting. Like the "farm" running joke, yeah it's funny at first but there's no real point to it.
>>291233490Probably. If he read the novels he'd know Overlord's main flaw is a lack of conflict, not Ainz's character.
>>291233582I'd argue they're connected. I think his character was meant to provide the conflict at first, with him trying to find pragmatic solutions to problems that kept collateral damage to a minimum while still being appropriately evil. It's just that after a certain point the author stopped trying and we just get 100 variations of him going through the motions of "hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby" played up for shock value.
>>291233323but he is a self insert character tho
>>291233582>>291233490i did attempt to read the novels, if i were to praise it on anything i would say i actually do like how the author is able to describe the analytic nature satoru approaches conflicts and situations, and it would be entertaining, if there was actually a reason to be be invested in said conflicts and situations.
>>291233074None of the cast are evil enough to be likable. They are evil enough to be unlikable (the point where they obviously have enough internal capacity to not be as bad as they are) but they are not evil enough to be fun to watch be evil.Worst of both worlds.
>>291233074Yeah, the series tries to be this weird middleground, where we're supposed to relate to him, yet be OK with his army farming, mutilating, and slaughtering innocent people.
>>291233074He's just a salaryman trying to larp as an evil king, so you get the humorous moments of him not knowing what the fuck he's doing and just acting like how he thinks you are supposed to as a king. It's funnier when you hear his inner monologues, of which many get cut from the anime
>>291235846>how he thinks you are supposed to as a kingI guess he never consumed too much media outside videogames in the 22nd century
so what evil character do you find enjoyable then?
>>291233074Overlord would be a timeless classic if halway through the series the NPCs figure out he's a pussy, get mad about it, and trap and gank the fucker.Whereupon Demiurge becomes the MC. The author is nor intelligent enough to do this nor write it well even if he did, which is why he didn't/
>>291236283>The author is nor intelligent enough to do this nor write it well even if he did,I would have to disagree there, reading the novels it does look like he could make a story with actual stakes and conflict and write it well, i just think he is very much aware of who his audience is and what they want and writes accordingly.
>>291235743Shalltear is likeable.
>>291236328The author avoids writing from Demiurge's perspective because to him intelligent people are wizards.
>>291236376you only like her cause she's a vampire lolibaba
I like Ainz a lot and he has a lot of layers to his character. His abandonment issues, his fixation on the past, his paranoia, his desire to care for the legacy of his friends, him coming from a dystopia where humanity was already pretty callous and evil, etc.I liked him for the same reason I used to like Rudy in MT, but in MT the MC doesn't ever actually grow or start behaving differently, he ends up just side stepping all of his problems and worst tendencies so that he never really has to deal with them when he learns what he would actually do even after all his life lessons. So that mental growth never really happens, all he manages is to, at some points, go from a worse position to the position he was already in before mentally. Ainz meanwhile starts to actually grow into his role a bit and is slowly starting to get over his baggage.It remains to be seen on where the character development for Ainz will go. Overlord still could have a good ending with how the pieces on the board are out and the things that the author could focus on, but it's hard to say given the author's attitude if he is capable of harnessing the potential, but even if the ending sucks in my opinion Ainz goes through more maturity and development than most other Isekai protags do. I think there are only a couple that I know of who have more, and that is also with the benefit of their series being finished. The best isekai protagonist is Saito from ZnT in my view because him not really giving a fuck about nobility/magic and his love for Louise end up culminating in some serious development and decisions on his part. Second favorite is Ainz or Tanya, Ainz because of his character and Tanya because the stubbornness of the character definitely keeps landing them into shit that they cannot escape so easily.>>291236328It's hard to say how much is the writer and how much is the editor. Maruyama seems good at writing intrigue but bad at conclusions. Not much hope for 17-18 but could be wrong.
Well at least Overlord brought us the bar-none greatest doujin of all time.Me and Aura: https://files.catbox.moe/2jzhxv.mp4
>>291236477>editorhe has an editor?I mean i don't know too much about web novels, but i always assumed it was like an indie kind of thing?
>>291236380He does write from his and Albedo's perspective on occasion, and he was constantly writing the perspective of other intelligent characters like Jircniv, Renner, etc). He juggles a lot of character perspectives.
>>291236522Web Novel didn't have one, LN did. The LN editor was the one who came up with the idea of Albedo, I think. So that Ainz could leave Nazarick more often. Not sure what else he did or if the same guy is even on the job now because of how the last two volumes were
>>291236430Even if you count the years she was a literal NPC she is only like 17-18 max.Were are you getting the baba from?YGGDRASL was online for about 15 years IIRC, for a lot of those years Ainz Ooal Gown didn't have a base or NPCs, and the transfer to the new world was I think 3-5 years ago according to the LN.
>>291236611Apparently it was only 12 years, so even younger than that
Probably one of the worst shows I have watched in my life. What a complete waste of time.
>>291236502>No scene where narberal goes doppel faceso close to perfection...
>>291235743The worst part is that most of the antagonists for Ainz and his crew are also cartoonishly evil and yet because we know they're also utterly inferior to our "heroes" they're seen by the audience as being retarded. The show is almost a very lengthy "hold my beer" joke. But you still can't root for any of them. The only truly good alignment characters you might be able to are also retarded.
>>291235917The dude had an elementary school education and all he did was work and play vidya. Compared to his other guildmates he was a complete autist. There is a reason that everyone else in his group dropped the game except for him
>>291233074IDK man he's pretty evil. I dont think making him more evil would make me like him. He's committing all sorts of war crimes, the only way I could think of making him more evil is if he started mistreating his subordinates, and that would not make me like him more.
>>291236654>no scene where Yuri's fucking head falls offso close to perfection...
>>291233074Ainz is not (willfully) evil, he's cripplingly depressed and just going through the motions.
>>291236238Honestly? I know this is outside of anime/manga, but fuck it, its fantasy , its adjacent enough to overlord , for me, it would be Grey Seer Thanquol from Warhammer Fantasy.As an evil character, he’s truly irredeemable. There’s no hidden good side, nor are there really any positive traits to him... like, at all. He doesn’t even have the sort of villainous pride a villain might cling to when losing, Thanquol without hesitation will (and has) grovel if it means saving his own skin. without an ounce of shame he will beg, lie, blame everyone around him and throw literally anyone under the bus if it gives him another five minutes of life. He’s arrogant, cowardly, paranoid, hypocritical, duplicitous, treacherous, spiteful, vindictive, egotistical, megalomaniacal, self-serving, deceitful, cruel, delusional, envious, petty, and utterly incapable of accepting responsibility for his own failures, all the while being completely convinced of his own genius, And god damn, do I love that rat bastard for it.The funny thing is that Ainz and Thanquol as villainous characters are almost complete opposites while also having something in common, neither really gets by because of resourcefulness, personal virtue, or some admirable skill Ainz succeeds largely because he was an MMO whale whose pay-to-win bullshit manifested in a fantasy world. Thanquol, meanwhile, wins whenever he does manage to scrape together a victory, or simply survives, mostly through dumb luck, absurd circumstances, and repeatedly failing upwards in the chaotic world he inhabits.I find the latter much more entertaining.Ainz is impostor syndrome in a situation where no one can actually oppose him.Thanquol is the Dunning-Kruger effect in a universe that keeps rewarding him for it.
>>291237379yeah and its boring, ainz is basically adolf eichmann
>>291237379I like Ainz because he has a bizarre code that he follows where he tries to treat people with the honesty in which they treat him.Even though he enables evil from his subordinates, he tries to give even the people he kills some dignity if he is in the position to do it, and he at least does have a goal and does improve the lives of people under his rule.It's hard to argue that someone like Jircniv wouldn't commit similar atrocities with his power if he had all the resources Ainz did, just for his own nation instead of for Nazarick. We already know that people like the elf king exist and are way worse than Ainz is
He really sucks huh
test
>>291236640I would say to read the LN but at this point it's not worth it until we know how the ending turns out.
>>291237498>Ainz is impostor syndrome in a situation where no one can actually oppose him.It hasn't ended yet but there have been hints that there might be some big fuckery with Albedo behind the scenes that might bite him in the ass
He's just like me. I love this show.
/a/ is a foie gras board
>>291242113that it aint happening,
>>291242887It's hard to say if the final 2 volumes will be released at all, much less that they will be good. The potential is there, but people have serious doubt on if it will happen and if the execution will be good
>>291233490I've read the novels, and they are straight up dogshit.>>291236529He sucks at writing all of them too.
>>291233074I don’t like him because he’s evil and I know I’m supposed to like him for that.
>>291242974>He sucks at writing all of them too.I disagree. The thing he sucks the most at is pacing and going on tangents too much, especially in the newer stuff.1-11 were kino, 12-13 were good but flawed, 14-16 were somehow both rushed and glacial, with 15 and 16 especially being filled with scenes of people sitting around doing literally nothing.
When did /a/ became a bunch of moralfags?
>>291235781Yeah, I'm really starting to notice this as I'm watching for a second time. It's getting annoying.When the series starts, he's written as a human out of his depth, who attempts to tone down the brutality of his minions. He only behaves brutally against those who treat others with brutality - i.e. Clementine. But this transitions into frequent acts of harsh punishment - like killing the Foresight members to the subjugation of E-Rantel. Like, what's the point?Is it a show about a normal guy descending into evil? Then why so frequently reward him when he behaves honorably and justly?An outsider in a cruel world who fights for change? Then why reward him when he so often commits and permits incredible evil?The amorality of life? Fine, but then it becomes necessary to depict the perspective of those who are affected by his actions. But instead we are told to self-insert as Ainz.If anything the show needs an actual threat to Nazarick. An antagonist.
>>291243028I stopped reading this shit back when it only had 10 volumes. That was like 9 years ago, i don't even know. You are right about the tangents. It was the definitely one of the most infuriating things in the story which made me not want to continue. He still sucks at writing villains DOE. The guy who said in this thread about the author treating them like wizards is very right. I'm glad I didn't continue, because everytime I hear about what I missed from dropping this, it just sounds like it's gotten even shittier.
The main character in Livid Lady is legitimately more genuinely evil than any male MC I've ever read in narou.
>>291243220>If anything the show needs an actual threat to Nazarick. An antagonist.Sorry, that violates the author's self-imposed secret rules (Ainz can never face serious threats), so it cannot happen. The one time he faced serious danger (the Shalltear fight) was an editor suggestion.
>>291243275>VillainsFuck I meant intelligent characters. I read another post and got mixed up while writing this.
>>291243220>like killing the Foresight members to the subjugation of E-Rantel. Like, what's the point?He gave Foresight multiple chances to not only save themselves, but to explain themselves too. He was harsh but ultimately their deaths were on themselves, with or without Ainz they would have died there, Ainz just just their lifeline that they threw away.Taking over E-Rantel was essentially just picking the Empire over the Kingdom and letting the world know that he has powerful magic and is not to be fucked with. If the same amount of people died, but it was a "honorable" battle instead of a massacre and Ainz just observed the empire and Kingdom fight, it would have been worse because the Kingdom and other foreign powers would have tried to fuck with Ainz even more, leading to even more death.>Is it a show about a normal guy descending into evil?No.>An outsider in a cruel world who fights for change?Partially, but it isn't the main focus.>The amorality of life?No.For me the appeal of Overlord is watching the different Nazarick NPCs interact, watching Ainz grow as a character (and looking at his character in general), laughing at the black comedy, and looking at the world building/politics. If none of those appeal to you then you will not like Overlord.Also the anime is a trash adaption in general. Overlord doesn't need some shounen fight scenes and an antagonist and if you think that you are missing the appeal of the series, which is the above points.>>291243275It definitely isn't for everyone. The most recent 2 volumes especially are snorefests and you could literally read the first chapter, intermission, last chapter, epilogue, and maybe one actual relevant line buried in a random chapter and can skip the rest and get the same out of it as someone who read the whole thing.>>291243334I feel like he can write intelligent characters well enough. Who exactly comes off as unintelligent or asspully?
It's ironic how Maruyama started the trend of unreliable narrator schizo MCs with Overlord, but later he probably abandoned that many other of his plotlines, because of... oh no... one of those select "chosen" 1000 who had the exclusive privilege of reading the Evil Eye story dared to leak it and made it accessible to the whole world, so now he doesn't want to write Overlord anymore. Because Maruyama is such a weak fucking sister.
>>291243579Did he really? Overlord bounces around multiple perspectives and doesn't just stick with Ainz. I haven't seen or read any of the ones you posted so I'm not sure about them
>>291243412>I feel like he can write intelligent characters well enough. Who exactly comes off as unintelligent or asspully?Straight up all of them that I can think of. Leaving aside the emperor fag, because he's clearly not as smart as the ones I'm talking about. Not that he's a particularly good character. Renner would make a good example even though she's pretty much the only character I'm describing that had a rare moment of actually being the opposite of what we're talking about. I liked her policy that helped enriched the adventurers which actually partly made what the marquis guy saying she was deceptively smart justified. Majority of the time though, it not like that. It just comes off as forced because the story wants to hammer you into her godlike intellect even though it feels unearned.
>>291243817>It just comes off as forced because the story wants to hammer you into her godlike intellect even though it feels unearned.I don't think it is unearned. She purposefully pursues policies that she knows will fail and that Climb will like both to appear harmless and politically inept to any who might see her as a threat, and to secure to the affection of Climb. The policies that she does end up truly putting her weight behind are all good policies for management and she even made friends with some of the strongest adventurers around (before Ainz showed up, which isn't something she could have predicted) as an escape button or for use as leverage if shit really hit the fan. I remember she was even suggesting policies that fulfilled the all three conditions but didn't put her weight behind it specifically so that the empire would pick it up and Jircniv would end up having second thoughts about her intellect, which he suspected was very high.I think she knew that the Kingdom was on borrowed time and was essentially making herself very valuable and too dangerous to kill for the next power that would swoop in, probably the empire, where she would hand over some of her leverage for their use as long as they let her fuck Climb. Ainz completely changed that plan though to the point that there was no more use in doing anything but being servile to them.I don't see how the other characters are any different. Ainz is stupid because he is supposed to be, the King is meant to be a mediocre politician who can't get a handle on the country and not smart, etc.Demiurge, Albedo, Pandora's Actor, and Renner are all portrayed as smart. Jircniv is as well, but not on the same level, and Calca is as well but Demiurge took her out of play early on because presumably he saw her morality as a threat when he was a pure legalist
>>291243956Can't really say much for Calca, I literally dropped this getting to her. Which volume does she appear in again? Now that's out of the way, I feel like we're not talking about the same things here, but what you typed out isn't necessarily unrelated either. Btw, the policy I was talking about was the reward system which I can't for the love remember how it worked exactly, it's been way too long since I read this crap. While cozying up with Lakyus is definitely fairly smart, I can't see this as anything special since every other motherfucker wants to get close to adamantites. The same shit happens with Ainz and many different nobles IIRC( i however, don't recall if it was only 1 scene with him. Not that it matters if it happened once or multiple times) She also has the resources to actually make her relationship worthwhile for the roses that other nobles don't have. I also can't get over the fact that she understands the entire political landscape through a bunch of maids. That shit was retarded. And my favorite example, in any isekai, was her trying to convince other about CROP ROTATION. You can't have a cultivation aspect in your isekai without introducing this. Why yes, of course even Overlord had this.
>>291243786There needs to be an explanation for why Ainz "stumbles" into success so much, don't you think? If it's not just something like an innate hidden luck buff from his racial levels or class levels, that wasn't apparent in the game or such (which would be a kinda boring and the most obvious explanation), then the next-most plausible reason is that other than "Satori Suzuki" there's an actual "Momonga" inside him based on the avatar's logged ingame actions, as an alternative personality who TRULY is like Demiurge claims Ainz to be and orchestrated the events to happen as they did while "Satoru" just rationalized it away with the things he mentions in the story. It's kind of supported by the fact that Ainz uses very strange and dumb reasons for his actions sometimes, which he handwaves as preferences and habits from his time as a player and as a salaryman, but I have strong doubts about those explanations, he might just be hallucinating having those "hobbies" and such. If the real reason turned out to just be mundane shit like MUH "all just played for laughs" or something stupid like that in the end, then I'd have preferred that it just went the "dumb luck" route to begin with instead.
>>291244166>Can't really say much for Calca, I literally dropped this getting to her. Which volume does she appear in again?12. She is Jircniv but a moralfag and doesn't want to cross the line, basically. This limits her political actions severely and she would be better off bending her code a bit. She was smart enough to want to try to negotiate with Ainz before Demiurge killed her.>reward systemIt's been a while so I don't remember either, and you might be confusing it with something else>I can't see this as anything special since every other motherfucker wants to get close to adamantitesThe policies that she uses to secure Climb's affection also helps with Blue Rose because their leader is a massive moralfag. She still pays too, so she is both a reliable client, someone connected to royalty and could even have the ear of the kind, and someone who has the same broads interests (seemingly) as Lakyus. She leverages all of this to get Blue Rose close to her.>I also can't get over the fact that she understands the entire political landscape through a bunch of maidsMaids were just one of the ways she was able to do this. Remember, she had Nazarick feeding her stuff too.The crop rotation thing was pretty dumb though, I admit. A kingdom would have discovered that by then.
>>291244373>There needs to be an explanation for why Ainz "stumbles" into success so much, don't you think?No because he fucks up just as much, he just has the power to cover up his fuck ups really well when it happens and the intimidation to play it off. Also explaining it at all would ruin the joke in my opinion. It's funny to seem him yoyo between awful luck/stupid decisions that somehow spin into success, contrasted with him not even being able to get anything in his personal life sorted how he wants
>>291244388I'm gonna try to remember what I can about the rewards system. I think i remember her implementing some type of policy that stopped the guilds from taking most of the loot and rewards from adventurers. Still can't remember the specifics.The thing about Lakyus was that anyone could have done that in her position. Her authority, despite what little political influence she was given, basically allows her to let Lakyus run wild on the people who pollute the kingdom. Not her own abilities and her position. Feeding Lakyus pretty words isn't too surprising either considering her apparent justicefaggotry, anybody could have done that, like the nobles with Momon. Also she figured out what the entire political landscape was like before Nazarick's descent into the world.Also I think I remember reading about Calca. The author loves to give these alt his type content through twitter and interviews which just comes off as retarded. A shame a lot of the characterization doesn't actually come from the story. It's like that retarded shit that one piece author does with one piece.
>>291233074>he is also too evil to be relatable,hes not, think of any videogame where by the time youve beat it youve killed hundreds or thousands of npcs while stealing everything. youve commited so many crimes but its fine its just a game. ainz still has that mindset. hes accepted that the nazarik npcs are real people. however everyone else is still an npc except for a few named characters he sorta remembers.he doesnt care that he killed 10000 people with 1 spell just like you dont care about whatever random npcs you killed trying out the new gun you just looted. it was just cool to see what the spell did.
>>291244769>Not her own abilities and her position.But her position*Bunch of mistakes made today
>>291244769>I think i remember her implementing some type of policy that stopped the guildsI definitely don't either. It must have been in the six hands arc or near it but I'm too lazy to read through it at the moment.>Feeding Lakyus pretty words isn't too surprising either considering her apparent justicefaggotry, anybody could have done thatNot many put their money where there mouth is and raised some kid off the streets like with Climb, nor used a big chunk of their personal funds for things like orphanages, all for no discernable political goal.Lakyus is a moral fag and doesn't like to be too forceful and wants to do everything legally, which is her biggest issue and why she almost gets herself killed trying to stay in the Kingdom as a patriot and friend to Renner. She only lives because her teammates forcibly knock her out and take her with them. Renner was even about to let her hang herself out to dry if the rest of her team didn't save her.>Also I think I remember reading about CalcaEven from what we read about her in the story, which is all I go off of, she is stated to be this way. Jircniv doesn't like her because he thinks she restrains her potential, and she literally says she would be down to ally with Ainz only a couple minutes before she goes out to be killed, because she didn't want to judge on appearances. This was before he leveled the Kingdom and he was only known for killing people (on the battlefield) and being undead. She was considering pivoting towards him rather than the theocracy because of a lot of reasons, but Ainz hadn't killed anyone in peacetime so she wasn't above talking to him which was smart.>A shame a lot of the characterization doesn't actually come from the storyI felt like it did, but whatever. I can't comment on the interviews and twitter because I don't watch them or use twitter, the only thing I know is that there was a ruler ranking somewhere that used to get posted sometimes.
>>291244777So cool bro
>>291245059I think you're remembering Lakyus properly. Her introduction literally had the Roses destroy the illegal drug trades and dens. I don't think it was about the legality of her attacks, because obviously she just can't go haywire with destroying single corrupt noble and their crime syndicates. >Not many put their money where there mouthThey're also not royals. I don't see what's so particularly special about her alliance with blue roses either. Not really enough to convince me why she's a God tier napoleon intellect like the story claims she isThe author is just so out of his element when writing characters like Renner or Demiurge. Even Jircniv is above him. He only really shines when he writes Ainz doing something intellegent, and it's pretty clear why.
>>291245295>you're remembering lakyus properlyNot remembering* What's up with me today. 3 times in a row?
so did anyhing relevant happened to at least hint of a end of the show or is still ainzs npc pub stump everyone with no real tension
>>291245295>I think you're remembering Lakyus properly. Her introduction literally had the Roses destroy the illegal drug trades and dens.She has the backing of the princess for this and their operations are, as you say, illegal.>They're also not royals.There's that.>I don't see what's so particularly special about her alliance with blue roses eitherShe is able to keep their loyalty through friendship, social engineering, and acting. No other party can be compared to her charity, so by doing her charity she is buttering up both Climb and Blue Rose. Other nobles are content to just spend large sums to hire them while she has real loyalty, even if she still pays. She has intellect but her only ambition is Climb, she doesn't really care about actually doing anything with her intellect because she doesn't actually enjoy anything besides him. Without Climb she would basically just be like Oberstein from Legend of the Galactic Heroes or any other number of efficient but ruthless dispassionate bureaucrats.>The author is just so out of his element when writing characters like Renner or Demiurge. Even Jircniv is above him. He only really shines when he writes Ainz doing something intellegent, and it's pretty clear why.I don't see how. Some writing things he does are a bit dumb like the crop rotation thing as well as Demiurge buying into the Ainz hype a bit too hard, but everything else makes sense and the Empire bleeding the Kingdom of harvesting potential every year is a legitimate strategy and proof he knows what he is doing on some level regarding politics, even if he does do the low hanging crop rotation meme for renner
>>291245353>so did anyhing relevant happened to at least hint of a end of the show or is still ainzs npc pub stump everyone with no real tensionAinz takes a vacation in elf landia and an enemy just happened to be there and he curbstomps them. Basically pic related>>291244373Classic Overbored
>>291245353No, there is no big fight, you can go.
>>291245353In the New World? Re-Estize got nuked and Ainz is about to nuke the Slane Theocracy, but who the fuck cares about these shitters? The New World is too insignificant compared to whatever shit is happening inside Nazarick.In Nazarick? Nothing of significance has happened inside Nazarick ever since Shalltear got brainwashed. The plot here has literally stood still for 13 books.So the overall answer is yes. Overlord has completely devolved, as one Japanese reader put it best, into a story about a dumb middle-aged man who tortures ants while his servants say shit like “Sasuga, Ainz-sama! You have completely outsmarted those ants - they never saw the water hose coming!”
my hero will defeat the overlord and save the world.
>>291233074Sounds like he's the perfect amount of evil; evil creatures should not be likable.
>>291245467Lots of people pretend to be good. While smart, i don't think it's necessarily exceptional. I'd like to say I'd like to move past this argument since I don't really want to discuss anymore. I've been losing steam. I'm sure you noticed my lack of energy when responding. Also I don't think she'd be a dispassionate bureaucrat. It comes more like she wouldn't be interested in participating in politics at all and just be content doing nothing. She doesn't seem to have any interest other than Climb.>but everything else makes sense and the Empire bleeding the Kingdom of harvesting potential every year is a legitimate strategy and proof he knows what he is doing on some level regarding politicsThis is a whole different discussion, but my brief thoughts on it is basically. While this is above the likes of anything in One piece, it's not really all that different from something like Naruto either. So meh
>>291245734>While smart, i don't think it's necessarily exceptional.Fair enough. Her biggest feat was somehow being able to get in contact with Nazarick, but it isn't elaborated on how she even did that.>Also I don't think she'd be a dispassionate bureaucratI think she would be. It was described that she still had drive to do stuff, just that with no real motivation and general disgust at normals, it would probably be directed back at the Kingdom as a whole, both pragmatically for her own benefit and because it is what someone in her position is just expected to do.>While this is above the likes of anything in One piece, it's not really all that different from something like Naruto either. So mehI'm not really sure what you mean by this since I've never read or seen One Piece and Naruto has like zero world building to the point where I'm not sure what life is even like outside of the ninja villages, though my memory on that is fuzzy. Overlord goes to great lengths to flesh out the ground level like with the lizards and Climb
>>291245524Kek that image is genius
>>291233074thank you for tell us you just watched some shitty curated trailers from crunchyroll
>>291245816>NarutoA lot of Naruto's worldbuilding and political intrigue is surprisingly sound. Still there are some pretty lulzy shit like the Uchiha clan genocide. Doesn't really redeem it from the myriad of flaws it has. Sort of like overlord. Naruto is worse, but it overlord is not far behind for me.
>>291233074The story would be better if Ainz was a regular dude, who is pressured to conquer the world by his subordinates and he has to convince them to not commit atrocities.
>>291245935In Naruto I'm not even sure what the different nations are or who hires ninjas if they seem to have their own governments and wars.Also yeah, I barely remember the plot for Naruto beyond the the end and one or two small spots, my eyes were glazed over the entire battle with Madara onwardsFor Overlord it's pretty clear what the state of the world is, who the players are, and what people want to get. A lot of Isekai don't even manage that
>>291233074Personally, I both really enjoyed and really hated Overlord, but I couldn't put into words exactly how until I watched Tensura, and realized that it was pretty much a fixed version of Overlord. Fuse, the creator of Tensura, was never shy about being inspired directly by Overlord, Tensura came to be when he read Overlord and went, "Yeah, but what if..." And the result is actually great. Here are some examples.>Overlord's problem: Ainz comes into the new world, and the stakes of the first arc are established as such - there are people capable of mind-raping Shalltear, his strongest guardian, and he couldn't do anything about it. This means there are powers in this world as strong as he is, and he needs to be prepared. Problem: this entire plotline is discarded and never brought up again.Tensura addresses this by making Rimuru incredibly powerful, adding forces that can counter him, and making sure they're always there. Rimuru never feels truly untouchable, nor does he see himself as such. But more importantly, he values his comrades as much as Ainz, and they are very mortal. Every dark moment in Tensura boils down to Rimuru being unable to protect those he loves, because, no matter how strong he is, he's neither omniscient nor omnipresent. That's conflict.>Overlord's problem: Ainz's morality is incredibly fickle and vague, he can be both human and monstrous depending on the plotline. The premise of a villain protagonist is not used beyond making him kill a few likeable characters.Tensura addresses this by giving Rimuru full humanity, but then putting it to the test. Humans in this new world see him and his friends as monsters, and even the religion says that he doesn't deserve to exist. No matter how peaceful he tries to be, they still find reasons to attack him. He needs to learn that he's not human anymore, and protecting those he cares about means becoming somewhat monstrous without indulging in it. He doesn't like it, but that's how it is.
>>291246137>Overlord's problem: Ainz's nation-building plotline is frankly dogshit. Ainz never actually does anything to build his nation, relegating all planning and paperwork to Albedo while he mostly aurafarms and picks fights with other nations.>Additional problem: the loyalty of Ainz's guardians is never explained or elaborated upon. They simply love him endlessly as a gag, this love comes out of nowhere and doesn't go anywhere. He's the only one who questions their loyalty, which is the premise of him acting like he does, but he's never given any reason to do so, so it comes off mostly as silly standup routine between him and Demiurge.This is where Tensura truly shines. Rimuru starts off with only his cheats, and everything else is done through the power of his personality, moral compass, and knowledge as a general contractor in his previous life. He actively helps his future comrades and builds relationships with them, while building his nation up from goblin mudhuts to a thriving modern metropolis by relying on his own modern knowledge and the skills of his comrades. He finds all kinds of tricks for stuff like modern infrastructure, food, fashion, entertainment, etc., doing everything to make his nation as safe and happy as it can be. And the respect of his comrades comes naturally with this process - it's clear as day why they adore him so much.And this is just the general list. We can also discuss the details, like how different Ainz's and Rimuru's approaches to combat are (both commit mass genocide of their enemies, but in very different ways), how they treat strong opponents, etc. But the key takeaway here is that Tensura did what Overlord couldn't, because Fuse is simply a better author. And Maruyama really should now take some ideas from Tensura, especially since Fuse actually managed to finish his novel.
>>291246137>Problem: this entire plotline is discarded and never brought up againNot a problem. I didn't get into Overlord for shounen fights
>>291245961I remember I saw some post somewhere that gave an outline from all the events of the previous wars and how all of it laid the groundwork for the political relations in the present world. The outline was surprisingly took from lines of dialogue from other characters that normally wouldn't raise an eyebrow on the first read which impressed me since it's easy to miss. Nothing too special though. If anything standard and below average 1/4 of the time>A lot of Isekai don't even manage thatWhile an expansive world isn't necessary for a good story, Overlord despite my hate for it, definitely has a leg up when it comes to that, which even I think has flaws when it comes to it's worldbuilding. Also it just comes with isekai being a lazy genre despite its potential to be good. I got dragged in again. Peace.
I only watched the anime, but does he ever finally encounter an actual threat to him? Or does he steamroll everything forever? They kept hinting at other possible players being in the world or something similar, but nothing ever came of it in the anime.
>>291246196It's not about shonen fights, it's about stakes. The story starts with Ainz feeling vulnerable; he goes off to gather information to make sure what happened to Shalltear never happens again. He later gives Albedo a mind-control protection wand when she has to leave Nazarick because his failure with Shalltear still haunts him. But it only ever happens once, in the very beginning. In the rest of the story, both he and his guardians remain entirely untouchable. It's impossible to imagine one of Nazarick's guardians being defeated; meanwhile, in Tensura, one of the earlier arcs actually deals with Rimuru's Albedo getting killed in a human raid on his nation while he was distracted by a different threat elsewhere. This is the event that changes Rimuru's entire worldview, and it's exactly what Overlord desperately needs at this point.>>291246243No. At this point, the anime actually adapted most of the story, because Maruyama went GRR Martin and stopped writing Overlord years ago, promising that the next book will totally come out soon while crashing out on Twitter about wanting to become a salaryman again.
>>291246243TL;DR is no and the biggest threat to Nazarick is Albedo right now, not outside threats. One of the few important momments in the new volumes was Ainz accidentally making Aura and Mare suspect Albedo (even if he didn't mean to) and Albedo is actually up to shady shit.In the LNs they are about to invade the Slane Theocracy (the guys who brainwashed Shalltear) because Ainz just figured out it was them who did it.>>291246311>The story starts with Ainz feeling vulnerable; he goes off to gather information to make sure what happened to Shalltear never happens againThat part wasn't interesting to me at all personally. My favorite parts of the LN are looking at Ainz's musings on stuff because it sheds a lot of light on how fucked up he is mentally, even before he got put into his current position, as well as the NPCs slowly becoming more distinct outside of their initial programming, and of course the black comedy and world building and politics in general. I think you and I liked entirely separate things. If you like something better than good for you, but that seems so dull.
>>291233074>The reason I do not like ainz as a character...I don't remember asking you anything in the slightest.
>>291246530
>>291246374>My favorite parts of the LN are looking at Ainz's musings on stuff because it sheds a lot of light on how fucked up he is mentally, even before he got put into his current positionThat's understandable, but that's also the most undercooked part of the story, which is why it was omitted entirely from the anime. If Ainz is legitimately mentally damaged, let him have actual mental breakdowns. Go full young Rudeus: make him force himself on Albedo, realize that he can't feel anything, and crash out. And most importantly, give him a normal person to bounce off of. It's impossible to judge how "broken" he is when we don't see what "whole" looks like. NPCs is the new world are just that - NPCs; they're not relatable to him. His guardians can't critique him either. What would've actually helped is introducing another player, a foil to Ainz, something this story foreshadows throughout the entire thing but never actually does.
>>291246544
>>291233074That's fair. I kind like that he is more a manager at the slaughterhouse than a jack the ripper, but he has become a pretty passive protagonist over all. His companions running everything and him being too scared to speak up is maybe getting a bit stale now too. I appreciate the cast as a whole more than ainz specifically. I like the gamer caricature shtick and he is cool in his own way, but I don't think he carries the show by himself. There are probably better isekai, but I just really like the creativity behind the NPCs and the specific flavor of "video game become real" thing the show has cultivated
>>291233074Agreed, mediocre milquetoast villainy is lame. That Lord of Wrath from the movie was a more compelling evil.
>>291246958Actually, speaking of Mushoku Tensei, Rifujin did this exact thing, and he portrayed it perfectly. Nanahoshi is exactly what Ainz should've been like if Maruyama were serious about portraying his mental state. Someone in his situation shouldn't be mentally stable in the first place, even ignoring his dystopian background. Unfortunately, Maruyama instead introduced the stupid mechanic where Ainz just gets his emotions purged when he starts losing his mind, thus stripping us of all the amazing inner conflict that could've taken place.
>>291246958>That's understandable, but that's also the most undercooked part of the story, which is why it was omitted entirely from the animeNo it isn't? His biggest issues are his abandonment issues and his desire to live up to expectations, which constantly shows up as a theme and why he doesn't just run away from his problems or come clean as much as he can.>Go full young Rudeus: make him force himself on Albedo, realize that he can't feel anything, and crash outI'm literally about to drop Mushoku Tensei because I've been hating the recent season so much. I would very much dislike this. Just because you feel like shit doesn't give you the excuse to lash out, nor is that the only way to deal with grief. You and I want two completely different things out of Overlord and Ainz's character.
>>291247073>No it isn't? His biggest issues are his abandonment issues and his desire to live up to expectations, which constantly shows up as a theme and why he doesn't just run away from his problems or come clean as much as he can.Are those really issues if they never come up? If he has abandonment issues, then show it. Make him absurdly overprotective, to the point where the guardians start wondering if he doesn't trust them. And then test it - concoct a situation where he's forced to be alone for a while, and show how it starts fucking with him. Nothing like this ever happens, though. Sure, he is protective of Nazarick, but not even excessively so, given the situation.>I'm literally about to drop Mushoku Tensei because I've been hating the recent season so much.Not sure which season you're talking about, because Rudeus' ED was in season 2.>Just because you feel like shit doesn't give you the excuse to lash out, nor is that the only way to deal with grief. That's the thing about being mentally unwell - there are no excuses. You lash out because humans are not machines, and we have our breaking points, and once we reach them, we can do and say dumb things. Rudeus reaches his breaking point multiple times, as do Subaru, Rimuru, and hell, even Kazuma. Subaru is the absolute king of crashouts, seeing how his life is just perpetual torture, but that makes moments of his triumph all the more potent. But Ainz doesn't get these moments of weakness, and that's how he stops being interesting to the audience.
>>291246374>Ainz’s musings on stuffThis shit and the repeated joke about “I don’t understand anything, I’m just a salaryman” got really grating.>NPCs slowly becoming more distinct outside of their initial programmingThis only amounted to the joke about how Cocytus wants to be chair too, and endless teasing of “there is totally a drama brewing with Albedo trying to kill Ainz’s friends who are not in the New World, trust me!” You know, just like how he teased that Zesshi is an “Overlord of the New World,” only to turn her into another jobber.>And of course the black comedy, world-building, and politics in general.This would have been the case if the New World was in any way significant or relevant, but Maruyama went out of his way to show that Ainz ultimately doesn’t give a shit about New Worlders.All this world-building exists only in service of jerking off Nazarick.
Overlord haters are so deranged. If you don't like it then whatever. You don't have to try to make it something it isn't just to fit your weird media requirements. The fixation with how the story has to be certain ways is unlike anything I've ever seen.
>>291247070I'm anime only so I don't know the full story, but the emotion purge could have been a good setup into becoming full evil and just discarding his humanity.
>>291247547But I don't hate Overlord. I really enjoyed parts of it, and I own my share of Albedo merch. I'm just lamenting the more blatant issues with it, as someone who has consumed enough Narou to know what's what.
>>291247587You're genuinely just obsessive and can't have clear judgement. I wouldn't call anything I have so many issues with on a fundamental level something I enjoy.
>>291247547If I truly hated Overlord I wouldn't be here arguing about how much Maruyama fucked up the plot.
>>291246243>They kept hinting at other possible players being in the world Not really it's always made clear that they arrived hundreds of years earlier and non of them are active.>or something similar, but nothing ever came of it in the anime.The Dragon Lords are the only thing that can actually fight a high level player. Ainz does fight one in the Keno what if sidestory and it's the closest thing to an actual fight he had apart from Shaltear.>>291245959Ainz is from a horrible dystopian world and he mentions that he got so used to dead orphans just lying in the streets that it stopped bothering him. He wouldn't be a nice guy even as a human.
>>291247446>Are those really issues if they never come up?They do.>If he has abandonment issues, then show it.It does show. It's the whole reason he is in the role he is in. He's convinced that if he doesn't play up to their expectations, the NPCs will abandon him. That's why he can't push too hard for things he actually wants.>Make him absurdly overprotectiveHe is. He has a long list of requirements that must be met for a Guardian to leave Nazarick and go out into the world. It's just not to the point of parody where people think he's mental. Though Albedo and his daily maid thought it was cute when he was fussing over Albedo about to go out on diplomacy.>Not sure which season you're talking about, because Rudeus' ED was in season 2.S3. I liked S2 until the desert.>But Ainz doesn't get these moments of weaknessYeah he does, he just doesn't self destruct his life over it or wallow in it forever. He does it when Shalltear is possessed and he learns what it is, he does it in pic related, and he does it when Foresight invades his tomb. I don't like torture porn and characters sabotaging everything in fits of rage unless they truly are fucked without any chance of recovery. Subaru chimps out in S1 (the only one I saw, I didn't like it) a lot and I hated it because he has infinite fucking retries and he is just dumb. Rudy just blows up his whole life when things don't go how he wants, to the point that it becomes parody and he is his own enemy more than anyone he blames, and to the point I felt it was out of character compared to what he learned in S2. Ainz is careful to not throw away the things he actually cherishes which is in character for someone so obsessed with the past and autistic as he is, even when he gets mad. When he does lash out he tends to redirect it into the environment (or his enemies) and it is more justified. Not to mention he has the emotional limiter from being undead
My problem with Ainz really is how he's become a really boring MC.To be honest, I'm only watching because of Albedo.
>>291247684The plot has been the same from the beginning and only got fast tracked and off in execution in the last 2-3 books.All I see is narou obsession invading someone's mind to "like" Overlord by extension, if only it could be like the other narou, a cognitive dissonance. For someone like me who only reads Overlord as an exception of the category I find enjoyment in, this behavior simply does not track. You just want to change it at its core to be what you personally believe it to be.Maybe this is why this is such a widespread issue with this series, that it has it roots in the narou sphere and this is the consequences it has to be subjected to.
its weird that people are now saying the things i was saying eleven years ago about overlord, i should feel vindicated, but i don't
>>291247491>This shit and the repeated joke about “I don’t understand anything, I’m just a salaryman” got really grating.I like it when mixed with Ainz actually doing stuff. I will concede that the last two volumes did suck except for one or two moments though.>This only amounted to the joke about how Cocytus wants to be chair tooSebas has started dating someone from the outside world, Albedo found a kindred spirit in Renner and is getting so proactive it might fuck Ainz over, etc.>You know, just like how he teased that Zesshi is an “Overlord of the New World,” only to turn her into another jobber.If you believed this you are kind of dumb. She has an unoptimized shit build. Anyone with a brain knows that the only real threats are the Dragon Lords and MAYBE the elf king before he got outed as an overconfident retard.>Ainz ultimately doesn’t give a shit about New WorldersWrong. He actually liked Gazef, he likes Nfirea (he would have let him join the guild if anyone else was there to vote), he likes Gondo, and he likes some of the lizards for having the balls to say "I won't help you if you fuck the people who helped me over".
>>291247587>>291247774What the fuck is narou
>>291247824Short for shousetsu ni narou, the breeding ground of the web novels that would go on to become this new trend of LNs, most prominently the isekai genre
>>291247666I'm talking about the issues because that's the topic of the thread. If I were to praise Overlord, I could mention the characters outside of Ainz (and their designs, especially) being truly amazing, easily superior to Tensura. Or the book's artwork. Or some arcs that really grab you by the balls and never let go - Shalltear's rescue, Sebas's battle with the slavers, the invasion of Nazarick, etc. Sometimes, Ainz also shines as a character - his rage-fueled brutality aimed at Clementine actually shows the flawed humanity of his character brilliantly - he's an all-powerful god who's convinced that he could wish for nothing more, but he meets a band of adventurers who are nice to him and remind him of "the good old times", and once they're killed in a freak accident, he makes it his life's mission to track Clementine down and truly force her to die the most excruciating death he could deliver. This shows how Ainz, while all-powerful, is still vulnerable in ways he doesn't even realize. We can also talk about how Maruyama is truly a great D&D dungeon master - he's amazing at writing short, self-contained adventures for a unique cast of characters, and seeing how these characters can be challenged in ways unique to them. That's essentially what he does in every arc of Overlord - he always sets it up as a D&D campaign. The invasion of Nazarick is particularly unique, because in that case, the party is doomed to fail.The problem is that all the highlights of Overlord mostly take place in the first half of the story, before it becomes obvious that Maruyama has a hard time following up on his own ideas.>>291247728But again, that's not how mental issues work. If you could consciously reason your way out of having a mental breakdown, no one would ever have mental breakdowns. That's why it's important to show the low points in between the high points. It's not just torture porn, as long as the protagonist finds his way out of it.
>>291247864Shousetsuka* ni narou
>>291247864why did isekai become this formula that just keeps persisting?
>>291247885I dunno, I largely don't have an interest in it and actively avoids it until convinced otherwise by individual instances
>>291247885it's like the cockroach of genres
>>291247924avoid*
>>291247885its not really a new thing if you really dig into it, like if you look into what pulp fiction was like in the 1920s you find weirdly similar stories
>>291247873>If you could consciously reason your way out of having a mental breakdown, no one would ever have mental breakdownsDo you seriously not understand that some people don't need to ruin their own lives or act like an entitled clown to deal with trauma, disappointment, or set backs?Unironically I'd rather have a retards like Ainz as a boss over most other isekai MCs because unless the rest of the characters you listed, he won't randomly kill me in a chimpout when he gets rejected or gets a spell of bad luck.I think what you want is melodrama and characters way overreating out of proportion of what is happening. If you want that then Overlord isn't going to be for you except for the black comedy moments like when Shalltear and Aura massacre almost an entire race of mole people because they are both too dumb to understand what Ainz said vs what Ainz meant about surrendering
>>291247885Because that's the only way you could put a modern person into a foreign setting nowadays, when our world has been so thoroughly explored.
>>291247987Even back when things like Narnia and Lord of the Rings were being written this was the case.The only choice is to go to completely other worlds or so far back into the past or future that everything is completely different.
>>291233074I don't like they wasted such a great skeleton design on a pathetic salaryman larping as an evil overlord.
>>291247987>>291248007it's just lazy writing though, like instead of going into the effort of writing a native character designed in such a way to be relatable to the reader, creating a backstory and coming up with an internally consistent and believable reason why a character that is relatable to the reader would find themselves in the situations in the story and then writing a show don't tell overview of the world , isekai authors most of the time just default to plopping some hikki neet whatever into our world to theirs . Like in all these stories them being from another world rarely has any plot relevance.
>>291247774You accuse everyone of not understanding Overlord and of trying to “change the core,” but I think it’s you who’s overthinking Maruyama’s writing.You’re kinda like Demiurge, who sees huge depth when in reality it’s not that deep. Sasuga, anon!
>>291247966>Do you seriously not understand that some people don't need to ruin their own lives or act like an entitled clown to deal with trauma, disappointment, or set backs?That depends on the scale of the problem. Sure, in daily life, we can deal with daily problems normally. But these characters go through extraordinary circumstances, often compounded by mental issues from their previous lives. Subaru is not some drama queen; he goes through more suffering than any human could possibly take without going insane, to the point where I'd consider his current mental state a bit of a sleight of hand on Tappei's part. He really should've just died mentally a long time ago. Rudeus is the same - he has massive mental issues that he actively works through as he gets older. MT is probably the greatest example of character development in all of isekai, because it's both comprehensive and believable.>>291248007Exactly. If you want to write fantasy these days, you only have two options. One - write an original world with the protagonist being a native, in which case you need to concoct his own backstory, family, network, etc., and run the risk of it all being somewhat unrelatable. Two - shove the person from our world into the proverbial wardrobe that sends him to the proverbial Narnia, and go from there. Way easier to write and not fuck up. In the old days, this problem didn't exist because your character could just sail to another continent, or discover an uncharted island, but that doesn't work anymore.
>>291233074Its because author can't actually write interesting characters. Nothing about Ainz, his personality or character is explored at depth, he and the entire story is instead dictated by his NPC minions (much easier to write purely one-dimensional characters). One of the worst and least deserved series to receive anime adaptation.
>>291247580I have one thing to say:>You hate a thingOkay.
>>291248107>You’re kinda like Demiurge, who sees huge depth when in reality it’s not that deep. Sasuga, anon!This is indeed pretty much every vocal fan of this series, its pretty fucking funny. Worse even than the faggots obsessing over Frieren or JJK (also series with non-existent depth).
>>291248107I was never implying depth or anything. I just like it the way it is. The other guy wants it to be something else to be deep or something.So basically, you're retarded.
>>291248108>That depends on the scale of the problemIt does. But consider that most of Subaru's problems (in S1 never saw or intend to see more and I'm amazing I even got through that years ago) are from his own obsession and simping over some mid elf girl. Then he has the entitlement to blame her as if she forced him to do shit on her behalf.As for Rudy, ONE of his many family members (and only one of his multiple wives) died due to essentially an accidental infection (he didn't know it was a conspiracy at the time) and he completely destroyed his own life and the rest of his family's life over it with selfish actions and hedonism.\There is a difference between being in a corner and having no way out, and so you vent about it vs making your own misery and escalating a minor tragedy into a full blown tantrum/binge of awful decisions that fucks things up immensely for almost everyone. Neither in my book have any excuse because Subaru has infinite tries and he puts himself through all the bullshit he does basically completely willingly, and in MT Rudy had a whole season to learn to not do this and even learned from his dad who went from similar circumstances how to get your shit back together and look at what you still have rather than what you lost (and even did this himself to get over Eris too), then they immediately walk it back to have some faggy aura moments with a cheat journal and time travel.I feel no real sympathy for any of them because when the chips are down they show they have zero principles, and I wouldn't show sympathy to some druggie or drama queen in real life who pulled that shit on me too.
>>291243220I share the same criticism, I think, but maybe I just didn't get it on first watch.The viewer seems to be set up with seeing a man descend into madness, you're intended have hope he's still there by the end of Season 1 and will reform things, then revel in the brutality once the litch ultimately takes over and he's wiping out entire villages mindlessly by 2 or 3, women and children crushed, people burning to death. Yabee, fucking crazy.At the start of the next season, he's oddly fully human, cracking silly jokes and delegating tasks to the NPCs, not really caring about crushing the world, still the same goofball. What a tone shift. I clearly read it all wrong, or the adaptation presented it poorly.As a military series where he fills a role closer to Zettour in Youjo Senki, he is a much better set piece not being a doomed super genocide man. His purpose seems to be that he is the ruler of a specific country, will fight mercilessly and brutally if in his interest, but still reasonable. The descent into madness angle was surely a misreading. Just being one of the many emperors, who happened to do some crazy shit a few times no big deal, works better for the long run.
>>291248227You really have issues with empathy, I feel. Learn to put yourself in other people's shoes, and you'll enjoy these stories way more.
>>291248261I don't have issues with empathy, I just agree with Ainz in that not all lives are equal. I will have empathy for someone who really tried even in the worst of times and yet life kicks them down.I'm not going to have sympathy for someone who makes shit worse for everyone and would just be better off dead instead of dragging others down.Big difference between the two and if you don't understand then you are overly empathetic in my own view
>>291247798>Sebas has started dating someone from the outside worldWhen was the last we saw Tsuare again?>Albedo found a kindred spirit in Renner and is getting so proactive it might fuck Ainz over, etc.Always might but never is or will.>Anyone with a brain knows that the only real threats are the Dragon Lords Anon, Platinum got completely played by Pandora's Actor. DLs are being setup as the ultimate jobbers.>Wrong. He actually liked Gazef, he likes Nfirea (he would have let him join the guild if anyone else was there to vote), he likes Gondo, and he likes some of the lizards for having the balls to say "I won't help you if you fuck the people who helped me over".He likes them in same way one would like pet cat or something. If everyone in the New World suddenly died his reaction would be "Umu. What a shame." and absolutely nothing of significance would chane inside the Nazarick.
>>291248281>When was the last we saw Tsuare again?Counting or not counting spin offs and side stories? She shows up in the Undead King Oh!, which talks to Maruyama about stuff. She hasn't shown up in the main story much afterwards because it is pressed for time, but she is mentioned and does show up in the occasional side story and spin off.>Always might but never is or will.Until it is concluded or too much time passes to seriously the books coming out, you cannot make a definitive judgement.>Anon, Platinum got completely played by Pandora's Actor. DLs are being setup as the ultimate jobbers.I am aware that they are not all powerful, my point is that they are the only creatures who are threats in combat without massive asterisks.>He likes them in same way one would like pet cat or something. If everyone in the New World suddenly died his reaction would be "Umu. What a shame." and absolutely nothing of significance would chane inside the Nazarick.Nope. Also I forgot Neia, who he not only brought back from the dead but also offered to bring her parents back because he was happy that her and Shizu became friends and was plenty happy to spoil her
>>291248227I never watched Re:Zero, but you are right about Rudy here. We owe it to ourselves not to follow in the footsteps of drunken fathers pissing it all away wallowing in pity, destroying their relationships and family.It's a conscious decision and something that requires effort, a natural obligation.Rudy failed to do this after his wife's death. His own weak will and selfishness caused the destruction of the lives of everyone he loved.A more chadly time travel plot, if relying on that, would be being directly confronted with that his wife would die, or has died, of illness, and demand he carries out his obligation to keep his family strong. It doesn't even have to be time travel. Zatoba could fill this role.
>>291248326>Nope. Also I forgot Neia, who he not only brought back from the dead but also offered to bring her parents back because he was happy that her and Shizu became friends and was plenty happy to spoil herHe sure didn’t like Tuare’s sister enough to bother resurrecting her. In the dwarven volume, Ainz literally goes on an incel rant about how everyone outside of Nazarick isn’t even of tertiary concern to him. In the volume where he nuked Re-Estize, he pretty much directly admitted that he’s 100% fine with his children being a bunch of monsters as long as they’re happy.If the protagonist thinks of New Worlders as ants, why should we readers give a fuck about whether they die fighting Nazarick or survive as his new servants?
>>291248482Part of the reason I've been hating S3 so much is that it just pretends Rudy didn't go through this same shit in S2 (more than fucking once, I might add). It's getting old and the time loop angle just makes it worse because it proves Rudy didn't learn a damn thing from all his prior experience. He didn't grow as a character. I'm guessing the rest of the show is just about him sidestepping grief or using it to excuse other fuck ups just like every other time it happened.First time in his old life? Fair enough, modern society sucks and there is only so much you can really do alone and with modern expectations, bureaucracy, and technologySecond time when Eris left him? Fair enough shit sucks and it came at a time when he realized he lost a lot of other stuff and had no other real goals (though him not even bothering to look for Sylphie was fucking odd in the years he was wandering)Third time when Paul died? Starting to get a bit old and he ultimately uses it as an excuse to get a 2nd wife anyway. This after he finally gets over Eris and he knows his wife, child, and sisters are waiting for him.Forth time with Roxy? No excuse. Also time travel basically proves that Paul died for literally nothing and Rudy learned nothing from his father, AND that him cheating on his wife was just an excuse to get some puss, AND that his second and first experiences also taught him nothing.
Ainz is a bizarre character not worth opining on.He doesn't lose his emotions and sanity, but falls into accepting the a role of a vicious unpleasant ruler, which he's broadly okay with by the latest season. It's almost as though he doubles back on the world not being real, doesn't particularly care if millions are tortured to death or not, and is only really switched on when it comes to clues on other players like runic swords. Any emotional arcs he seemed to have almost a red herring.
It's just a boring show. Wasted skeletor design.
>>291248555>He sure didn’t like Tuare’s sister enough to bother resurrecting her.Two different scenarios and anyone being alive to know about Clem and what really went down was dangerous. Tsuare also basically wanted a clean break from her old life as much as she loved her sister. Also he did at the very least avenge her and the rest of her group and him not just killing Tsuare was out of gratitude for her, not just because Ainz felt nice and wanted Sebas to crush some puss - he wanted to repay what he saw as a debt.>everyone outside of Nazarick isn’t even of tertiary concern to himYeah I don't deny this, but it says a lot when he wanted Gazef on his side and Nfirea to join the guild if the others were there.>In the volume where he nuked Re-Estize, he pretty much directly admitted that he’s 100% fine with his children being a bunch of monsters as long as they’re happy.Yes, this doesn't contradict his character in his old world either. He was always this way and prioritizes people he knows over people he doesn't. It's not like he enjoys being cruel for no reason, but he is a vicious fuck if you piss him off and kind of an enabler because of how weak handed he is when he deals with friends/family.>If the protagonist thinks of New Worlders as ants, why should we readers give a fuck about whether they die fighting Nazarick or survive as his new servants?Most are ants until he meets with them and until you as the reader understand them. You mistake him not giving a fuck at first impression as him never giving a fuck ever. He goes from thinking Gondo is a retarded emotional faggot to relating to him in like one conversation. Ainz is pretty easy to convince if you use the right language. Honestly Foresight could have lived if they told him they wanted to get to the bottom for the sheer adventure of it since Ainz can respect that. If you pour your heart out to Ainz he is more likely to listen to you if you bullshit him and tell him lies. Most people bullshit him.
>>291248281>absolutely nothing of significance would chane inside the Nazarick.That's a good point. That's the issue with Nazarick - it's a very insulated space that doesn't seem to require anything to sustain itself, which makes Ainz passive.For example, let's think about food. Albedo is a virgin succubus, but how does that work? Where does she get the life force? In any given D&D setting, succubi require frequent feeding, or they lose their powers entirely (sometimes along with their beauty) and wither away. Essentially, Albedo is cursed in the same way as Elinalise from Mushoku Tensei. She's not like Shalltear or Solution, who can just "eat bad people". So make Albedo's virginity catch up to her - she gets seriously sick, on the verge of death. Shalltear, a human-eating monster herself, figures out why and tells Ainz. This creates a conflict that forces Ainz out of Nazarick naturally - if he doesn't want Albedo to die, and he also doesn't want to whore her out to street rabble, how does he solve this? Well, perhaps there's a magical artifact that could help her? Elinalise's chastity belt was a bit on the nose, though. I'd go for something more elegant. Maybe some vessel that morphs ambient emotional energy into the kind of energy Albedo can consume. Make it an amulet, and since she's already the representative of Nazarick, make her an idol-esque public figure so she can feed on pure admiration. She seduces everyone and is seen as a benevolent goddess of beauty. Maybe an entire cult forms around her. Albedo doesn't really care; of course, she just enjoys the attention and being useful to Ainz, and Ainz is happy that she's healthy again. Demiurge, of course, muses that it was all part of Ainz's grand plan to make Nazarick even more powerful, now that Albedo has an army of simps who wouldn't say a word against her or Ainz. And how would Albedo juggle her chaste harem cult? Who knows!That's the kind of stuff Overlord needs more of. Nazarick is just too inert.
>>291248715>Albedo is a virgin succubus, but how does that work?It is stated that 99% of heteromorph races don't age and most don't even need to eat, and that Ainz also has rings of sustenance he gives out to those who do need it like Aura and Mare. Albedo is never mentioned needing one.Also she is more races than just that and it is heavily implied that she is this in her true form.All of this shit is just fanfiction and why you want forced drama that has nothing to do with anything. MT having a plot about why a character NEEDS to be a whore is retarded and the character that is effected by it is a useless bitch and the time travel plot made it even worse
>>291248771Yes, indeed. As I said, Nazarick is inert. That's the problem everyone here has with Overlord.
>>291248790I don't have a problem with it, my problem is that the author goes on really long tangents about shit that doesn't matter and struggles to end certain plot lines.He doesn't have any trouble opening them like your shit plot
>>291248555>If the protagonist thinks of New Worlders as ants, why should we readers give a fuckThe protagonist is mentally ill, paranoid and terminally unhappy so you're not supposed to defer to what he regards as valuable
>>291248715To add to this, it also gives Albedo a weakness - if she loses admiration, she would start to deteriorate again. This would give the story some stakes that are nonexistent otherwise. Albedo can now be defeated if, for example, some slimy noble besmirches her and ruins her standing. And wonderfully enough, that's not a problem that could be solved through violence, so Ainz's brute strength becomes useless. He now has to do some actual politics.>>291248800You don't seem to have a problem with anything in general, which is fair enough; that's your opinion. But your opinion, in this case, is not shared by the majority, including even the author, I'd wager, seeing how he's struggling to continue writing what was supposed to be a really long narrative (he wanted 40 volumes, but now says he wants to end at 18 and struggles with 17).
>>291248561I don't view is quite as strongly.S1 is the great journey, S2 meanders with school, reconnecting with Sylphie, his father, Roxy, awkward hydra boss fight. S3 Establishes what he has to lose, and creates the villain. I believe the remainder is 100% self improvement, training to beat Hitogami's remaining apostles and secure the good future.The handling of S2 was pretty wonky. A reconnect ion with his father to pursue Nanhoshi's plans results in an apparently avoidable death, the ED plotline. I feel like the author didn't know where he was going either. You make a reasonable point that lessons could or should have been learned already, which I suppose was unintended.Second wife was just hot and a bit of hornyposting. I can't fault it. I think the series is salvageable and on the right path, but I'll see how it goes. If you can't stand the characters, just drop it. A single bad episode revealing something unpleasant in a character can be all it takes.
>>291248715Because the guy who designed her liked gap moe.
>>291248917The guy who designed her actually got it right, because he wrote her as a slut, and Ainz rewrote that part at the last second before he got isekai'd. That's the reason why she can't mount her bicorn (it cannot be mounted by virgins), which puzzles both her and Shalltear, since they don't realize how her background was rewritten.
>>291248845>You don't seem to have a problem with anything in generalI have problems, they are just actual problems with the pacing and what the author is trying to do rather than forcing in random drama that doesn't fit anywhere or accomplish anything from a writing perspective. Albedo would sooner fucking die of starvation than partake in the shit you said. She wanted to skin some faggot alive for even touching her and she personally went Vlad the Impaler on an entire estate as a warm up to torture one specific person who lusted for her to death. You seem to show a staggering lack of understanding of what or what would not be in character based on what we know.The issue isn't that we don't have forced drama, it is that the drama we do have is disjointed and sluggish at the moment, instead of previous volumes where there was a clear progression towards a lot of things at once. We have fucking plenty of wacky hijinks in Nazarick in the spin offs. And those are good, but we don't need more of it in the main story when there are only two volumes left.Right now the author needs to resolve the Slane Theocracy, Albedo political shitshow/civil war, Ainz still struggling to try to get the NPCs to be equals, Ainz still being unable to most past his old glories
>>291248674Remember that gag about how Ainz ignored Neia being dogpiled by demi-humans in order to try to build a rapport with Remedios, and only decided to save Neia because Remedios was a bitch? That was amusing.Or remember how he straight-up lied to Gondo’s face about how his country sold the runesmiths without a second thought? Something tells me that you don’t.Once again, you're overthinking things and seeing things that don't actually exists (Ainz genuinely caring about New Worlders), sasuga anon!Also, Foresight did nothing wrong. Ainz has no moral high ground over them and was acting like a pissy little bitch the entire time.
>>291248905I'm going to drop it when the cours ends probably. I've hated most of this season (only the first two episodes were any good of S3) and I only really liked S1 before the teleport aside from like 1 or 2 moments post teleport, which otherwise was kind of a blur to me that I don't have an impression of besides being mostly boring. S2 had the most character building and payoffs so I liked it the most, but it blew all of it's load on emotional payoffs way too early for how much more the series has left to go and fucked up a lot of stuff with the desert and getting back from it. S3 has just been either repeats of lessons or vague posting. I don't know why people seemed to hate S2, it had Rudy "grow" (I put it in quotes because S3 and the desert literally just undoes it all) the most. It told us that he was starting to get independent (first couple episodes), that he was becoming more of a family man/responsible (committing to Sylphie and helping Norn), and that despite setbacks, he can enjoy life again.I don't see how it can be salvageable when the time travel thing basically said "none of the prior character development for the main character mattered at all and you wasted your time until now, he learns nothing until he got the diary". That was one of the biggest fuck you moments I have ever seen in an anime. I wouldn't have even started watching it without someone sort of making me, so I can blame it solely on him.
>>291248967>I have problems, they are just actual problems with the pacing and what the author is trying to do rather than forcing in random drama that doesn't fit anywhere or accomplish anything from a writing perspective.Even what I wrote accomplishes more than whatever happens in the actual story, because it gives Albedo a strong impetus to put herself out there (as she does in the story, but for no reason other than "Ainz says so"), and also gives her an actual weakness that could be exploited by the NPCs in the new world.>Albedo would sooner fucking die of starvation than partake in the shit you said. She wanted to skin some faggot alive for even touching her and she personally went Vlad the Impaler on an entire estate as a warm up to torture one specific person who lusted for her to death. Exactly. That's the conflict right there. Albedo would never want to act like a real succubus, and Ainz would never allow her to die. That would force him to look for the third option that would actually move the story forward more organically than creating yet another Demiurge moment.>the drama we do have is disjointed and sluggish at the momentYes, it is. I mentioned before that Maruyama is a great D&D writer who makes great campaign-style stories. And this is the opposite side of that coin - he sucks at actually stringing these campaigns into a single coherent narrative.
There's no NPCs in the New World ffs
>>291249002Ainz gave Neia the chance to live by reccomending she go to a certain spot and she didn't take it. He went back to revive her because she was the one person who wasn't some standoffish asshole to him the whole time, and he didn't even have to do it. He did it because he liked her.>Or remember how he straight-up lied to Gondo’s face about how his country sold the runesmiths without a second thought? Something tells me that you don’t.They basically did. Sure it was a high price, but they sold. They definitely could have fought him a bit more on it but were too intimidated by it.>Once again, you're overthinking things and seeing things that don't actually exists (Ainz genuinely caring about New Worlders), sasuga anon!Nope.>Also, Foresight did nothing wrong. Ainz has no moral high ground over them and was acting like a pissy little bitch the entire time.Foresight fucked up multiple times. Ainz had no moral high ground, you are right, but the moment they lied to him about friends completely sealed their fate. A common theme in Overlord is that someone in honest and honorable with Ainz he usually reciprocates, and when someone lies or treats him with bad faith he also fucks them over. He's like a fucked up mirror. The only time he doesn't allow someone to walk away despite wanting to is with Zanack, and even then he does level with him and try to somewhat comfort him in death. Also by that point the Kingdom had completely fucked itself up politically and there was essentially no saving it with the current king in charge. Zanack dying was the fault of Ranpossa who assumed Phillip was innocent when he was absolutely guilty, then tried to offer his own head when, pretense or not, the Sorcerous Kingdom was not interested in innocent blood.
>>291233074>What if Skeletor was evil not for the love of the game but clocked into it like a Mcdonald's job.
>>291248654It's funny that Aqua, of all the isekai characters, is the one who can reliably beat Ainz.
>>291249042>even what I wrote accomplishes more than whatever happens in the actual story,lolNo. It just wastes time with melodrama and doesn't show things about characters we don't already know, nor does it progress towards an actual plot. Also Albedo was literally added to the LN so Ainz could leave Nazarick and she could stay there. And her being cooped up in Nazarick is the thing that is increasingly giving her strange ideas and the ability to work her tendrils into other people that are loyal to Ainz first then the guild.>That's the conflict right thereIt doesn't do anything new or fresh and is just melodrama. We already have moments of Albedo leaving Nazarick here and there even when she really isn't supposed to be and wasn't written in so she could. Narratively she didn't even have her own room until Ainz gave her one of the spares, which kind of tells you everything you need to know about how the Guild and story writers intended to use her. Also like I said it doesn't fucking do anything for the story. We already know that Albedo will say "I'd rather die" and Ainz will say "but I order you" and that's that. It's boring and has been done 1000 times. It doesn't challenge the characters in ways that we have never seen them act before and it doesn't advance the plot. Now if you had said that Albedo got mind controlled and was begging Ainz to kill her so she doesn't have to fight him, and if he did kill her it would be permanent, that would be some shit that is way better. Can Ainz do it, will he find some other way, will the outcome change Ainz? But that is better saved for a climax or something, and there are other finales that I can think of too. Your ideas are way too derivative and repetitive.>he sucks at actually stringing these campaigns into a single coherent narrative.Not really, the issue is coming up with conclusions and with burn out. He hasn't started struggling until vol 14.
>>291248654>>291249249Aquafag is still around huh?
>>291249249>Same plot as Overlord, but every time Ainz tries to be edgy or is about to commit some atrocity for a stupid reason, Aqua shows up out of nowhere and repeatedly kicks him in the balls until he stops acting like a cunt.Would unironically be a better show than whatever we have now.
>>291248654I enjoy eins quite a bit. Aqua is fun and likeable at times but sucks as a personality trait which I respect but she still sucks regardless. No clue why the lot of you fags are so obsessed with her. She cast heal on a skeleton in a comedy spin off series and you all think she's fucking jesus fucking christ for some reason. She is not.
>>291249258>melodramaNot all strong drama is melodrama. Melodrama is a word applied to fake drama - characters fall apart and get put together with nothing changing about them. Exaggerated, sensationalized drama. But if your drama, no matter how dramatic it is, actually reaches a conclusion that gets you somewhere (and it doesn't take up a hundred episodes) - that's not melodrama, that's just writing.I feel like your problem is similar to that of Maruyama - you're afraid of drama. You don't like seeing the characters legitimately suffer, and when they do, you say that they're stupid for doing so. But that's not how you approach fiction. Human life consists of pain and suffering, as much as we hate it. Stripping it away cheapens the story. This is a problem that both Overlord and The Eminence in Shadow share. The protagonists do not suffer in any significant way. The majority of complaints in this thread mention how Ainz is a static, boring protagonist. This is why.>Also Albedo was literally added to the LN so Ainz could leave Nazarick and she could stay there.Well, actually, her role was filled by Demiurge, with no major issues. She was added because Ainz needed a female secretary; having him go through Demiurge about pretty much everything felt kinda gay. Nazarick in the WN was very undercooked in general.
>>291249547>Not all strong drama is melodrama. Melodrama is a word applied to fake dramaI am aware of the difference, I used the world on purpose. Melodrama isn't even necessarily bad, exaggerated drama can sometimes be good.But it doesn't fit here. The drama you want is basic shit that doesn't go anywhere. The thing I proposed had the characters suffer more and adds more, you just want what is essentially filler that leads nowhere.Overlord already has a bit too much of that in the recent volumes.Eminence in Shadow is awful though, you are right about that. Ainz does suffer though, just because he doesn't cry and throw a shitfit when things don't go his way doesn't mean he isn't.>Well, actually, her role was filled by DemiurgeOther way around. Demiurge was in the WN and was stuck at home IIRC, they added Albedo so that Ainz and Demiruge could get out and about and so there would be a small rivalry between Demiurge and Albedo.>Nazarick in the WN was very undercooked in general.So I hear and why I don't ever plan to read it.
>>291233164fpbp
>>291248156Mostly just the awful CGI. The story hasn't progressed far enough for me to actively hate it.
>>291236376The funniest part of the scene of Shalltear getting drunk in the LN is basically absent in the anime. In the LN the scene is told from the seething bartender's perspective, and he notes that Shalltear cannot get drunk and is merely LARPing as a drunk pain in the ass and invading what he sees as a men's space (though he did invite her himself, which he very much regrets). He's trying to get her to leave by serving her random made up drinks but she just won't fuck off. And we never see Shalltear's POV so it's left ambiguous how much of this is on purpose from her side (she COULD, the bartender notes, disable her poison resistance and actually get drunk, but she doesn't).This is the type of awkward humor I read Overlord for.
I am still angry that Maruyama won't do anything more with Neia after the holy kingdomYes she had a whole book for herself, yes her arc is essentially completed with her becoming an unwanted cult leader of ainz-sama (who was indirectly responsible for the death of her parents in the first place kek) and being happier for it.But fuck me, Maruyama has a terrible habit of not using FUN characters, albedo suffers the same thing, she is fun, but because ainz gives a very vague answer to see to her feelings and gives a kiss to her cheek her arc might as well be essentially done too, we will be lucky if the next volume has any albedo at allI fucking hate Maruyama so much, fanfiction doesn't come close to scratch that itch either.
>>291246137>No matter how peaceful he tries to be, they still find reasons to attack him.That is not quite true. He tries to portray himself as a "harmless Slime" to the extent of even lying to himself (or the audience) in his monologues. But then he gets quite a shock when his strangely childish facade easily gets exposed having no choice but to admit the facts while simultaneously trying to deny it as this issue might ruin the image he tries to create for himself, but when the facts just leave zero room for rebuttal chooses to just handwave away this very striking abnormal behavior of his, while acting that he just "got it" and moves on. Basically almost every time he says "but I am just a harmless slime!" he is trying to gaslight people. It's to the extent that at a later point Guy even thinks that if he tried asking Rimuru about any of his grave suspicions regarding Rimuru, that Rimuru would just give that same "I am just a harmless slime!" non-answer again. Perhaps the only time Rimuru used the phrase genuinely was way back when he first met the ogres and they confused him for the clowns due to the mask, although even then he tries to threaten the ogres with his superior power via ominous demonic-looking dark flames and dark lightning just a few minutes after calling himself a harmless slime.
>>291249124>He did it because he liked her.it's been years since I read the light novels and as much as I love Neia I think that was more on luck that Neia says something that is nearly word to word to something touch me would say which reminds him of touch me's sense of justice, that's what convinces him to throw her a couple of items he looted, and later ressurect her.Before that moment, all those weeks she spent with him might as well have gone to waste
>>291250817I feel like he also uses that phrase as a joke, since it's a Dragon Quest reference.The issue Rimuru struggled with (at least early on) is that he legitimately did not perceive himself as a "monster". He was thinking of himself as a cute, lovable mascot character, and who would hate a mascot character? Basically imposing his modern sensibilities on the isekai world. So when filthy ningens still attacked him, he was caught off-guard and ended up learning a lesson or two.
>>291250817>>291246137I really should pick up slime again and I'll probably do so today, I dropped it around when season 2 was done and I was personally done with all the table meetings but I need something that is close enough to overlord to scratch that itch so slime will have to do.
>>291251086Just a forewarning, but season 3 is the season with the most meetings.
>>291233074>he's not evil enough for that sort of villainy to be amusing and yet he is also too evil to be relatableFunnily enough I feel the exact opposite.It is because he is not particularly malicious that his acts of evil stand out and his obiviousness to the harm he does to others makes him feel relatable.Anyway, Shalltear best girl and that's what really matters.
>>291236238DIO.Death game villains.Demon lords in general.
>>291250429>Remedios gets offscreen'edI'm still angry
>>291247885>why did isekai become this formula that just keeps persisting?Modern isekai stories are just a spin off of a genre thats been around for likely millenia. A person who is carried off to a far away land or other world and has to figure out how to survive.You can look back to things like the John Carter books that started in 1917 where a man is transported to mars and must fight aliens and save a kingdom.Or go further back and even in things like greek stories, people get transported to strange lands and have adventures.
>>291245524>Nothing of significance has happened inside Nazarick ever since Shalltear got brainwashed.who the fuck keeps reading/buying then no way it still sells if nothing ever happens
>WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH MY STAKES>WHY IS THIS NOT SHOUNEN SHIT btw nothing happens in those except like 2 deaths>WAAAAAAAAH I WANT STRONG MC BUT NOT AINZ
>>291233074I believe he actually gets more and more evil later on.In the beginning he literally goes and saves people, later on he straight up genocides a city with no issues whatsoever.
>>291247885What "formula" are you talking about? It's at most a "starter pack" kind of deal. It's one-off things that you usually run out of for the most part within the first volume. Isekai usually lacks in terms of variety in aesthetics, but it is unironically better than most other anime/manga/LNs at variety of actual substantial content. The other anime/manga/LN have a strong variety in aesthetics in relative comparison but they often cover the same substantial content, just packaged slightly differently.
>>291253164The anime worked well + it's hard carried by so-bin godtier art and design so that alone helps with merch + it came early enough that it managed to settle itself into a nice spot + isekai quartet helped keeping it relevant no matter whatAlso the movie came out with the last arc where things were fun and the japanese in general enjoyed it.However there is nothing more for them to fall on besides the very mid to bad elf volume that even the nips shitted on and the evil eye what if side story which was decent, so it's basically dead on the water unless maru shits out another volume and gives SOMETHING for a studio to work with already.>>291253454Eh early on he saved people because Ainz had no idea about the geography and political situation, once he is better situated he can be more open with the slaughter (while still keeping his guard up at all times)I would say it's less he became more evil and more that he is more aware there won't be strong enough retaliation that he can't prepare himself for it
>>291243579I tried watching top left and it sucked ass, like we have overlord at home but the MC is like an actual cardboard of a character that does not even have a cool skin like Ainz. Top right has some personality but it tries too hard to be fun which kinda backfires.Bottom left is actually pretty interesting at times due to all the building and stuff tho it's very slowburn and most of villains are absolutely devoid of any personality whatsoever.Haven't watched bottom right but the MC design is quite faggy.
>>291253695>Haven't watched bottom right but the MC design is quite faggy.That one doesn't have an anime yet.
>>291253643I believe at the beginning he actually had some empathy for humans, but that's just my thoughts.
Overlord has the best supporting cast of all similar shows and it's not even close.
>>291247885Like the anon above said Isekai is a "starter pack" that any writer can just pick up knowing the japanese readers already know the setting and the tropes associated with it, if you can nail the design and characters and get lucky enough with a engaging hook then half of your job is already done for you
>>291247885Sword Art Online and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
Overlord imo has more red herrings than a jumbo bag of swedish fish (muh food analogy for the burgers). If you're still expecting actual conflict after 16 LN's worth of "Ainz bumbles his way to victory by a series of accidents and the tireless work of his subordinates", I don't know what to tell you other than "this series isn't worth your time to continue". Overlord feels like a half personnel management anime and a half "wouldn't it be nice if you the time you spent with your friends playing mmo's lasted forever" anime. His "friends" in this case being the Nazarick npc's, just enough to provoke his fond memories of them but not really actual characters who might solidly object to his way of handling things, save for Nigredo & Pestonia, occasionally Cocytus. If Maruyama ever decides to actually finish the series in just 2 more volumes, it'll probably go either:>Ainz gets btfo by an as of yet unnamed world item, hardcut to ending or setup some sequelbait>Ainz wins and forcibly subjugates the entire world into peace enforced by fearThe "Nazarick Civil War" idea that keeps propping up in threads will (probably) never happen. All of the buildup is more likely to end in "Actually we just wanted to call you Momonga again, especially Albedo, since you rewrote her settings to: Deeply in love with Momonga."All that said I actually enjoy the series and want to at least see the LN's finished in my lifetime. Despite this post I'm leaving some room for the possibility of a surprising & satisfying ending.
>>291253774It's complicated, the village ainz saved for example took sebas mentioning something that reminded him of an old guildmate and that pushed him to intervene, much of ainz's empathy is directly related to the memories he built with his guildmates because he is desperate to keep this connection, he won't be evil for the sake of it but he is dangerously callous to anything unrelated to it.
>>291254031>The "Nazarick Civil War" idea that keeps propping up in threads will (probably) never happen. All of the buildup is more likely to end in "Actually we just wanted to call you Momonga again, especially Albedo, since you rewrote her settings to: Deeply in love with Momonga."Isn't the whole civil war thing a moot point because without the supreme beings every coming back there is no reason for the npcs to have conflicting loyalties? Ergo the death squad albedo was making was for nothing and it will be brushed away as a gag or a throwaway line most likelyAt least that's what I assume the whole "nazarick civil war" was about, albedo talking measures to make sure that if a supreme being comes over she can get rid of him before they disrupt ainz's power
>>291253733I really wish it had. Death Mage has some top tier girls.>>291254031>"Ainz bumbles his way to victory by a series of accidents and the tireless work of his subordinates"More like "Ainz keeps torturing insects who can’t do shit against him while his subordinates cheer him on and shout “Sasuga!”"
>>291254275The Supreme beings shouldn't really be able to come back at all. Ainz was logged in right before the shutdown and was looking at the guild list/friend lists. For any of his guild mates to come back, they'd presumably have to have left the guild and removed Ainz from their friend list or something before the night of the server shutdown. I guess they could have an "invisible" mode for logging in, but it's hard to believe the guild leader wouldn't have been able to see that on some activity log, which he would have been searching since he was so damned lonely. The one other guy who does show up switched to offline status and leaves Momonga completely alone, prompting him to wander around Nazarick. Albedo's activities are just contingency plans on top of contingency plans to keep her busy since she's run out of clothing to knit for her fantasy child. > it will be brushed away as a gag or a throwaway line most likelyYes, that's Overlord in a nutshell. You love it or you hate it
>>291254275>>291254875Most of the "Supreme Beings" are probably already dead, killed by Touch Me on orders of the dystopian government "just in case" there are more rebels among the guild. Maybe Ainz himself also almost got killed before being isekai'd because there was that one AOG-member cards that made it sound like right before Satoru got isekai'd Touch Me (government dog) and Ulbert (Rebellion higher-up) were fighting each other to the death. But that's probably another loose thread that will never get any resolution unless the final volume is about Ainz opening a portal to Earth or something.
so i don't really know what the current state of the Scooby-Doo franchise is, but i remember watching it as a kid and getting annoyed because the plot was basically the same every episode. there's some monster or ghost scaring people, the gang investigates, and in the end it's just some guy in a costume. then Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island came out and the twist was that the zombies were actually undead. the supernatural stuff was real for once. Scooby-Doo always got on my nerves as a kid because of how repetitive it was, but that twist actually made kid me interested enough to watch the movie when it was airing on tv .so it got me wondering: would something like that work with Overlord? say a new character gets introduced and hyped up in the usual way. everyone expects Ainz or one of the guardians to crush him like every other threat.except this time they don't.the guy is actually strong. not just "strong by New World standards" either. he manages to kill a high-level Nazarick NPC in a way that Ainz can't just revive them afterward. maybe he has some kind of ability that doesn't follow YGGDRASIL's rules at all, like some strange form of Wild Magic nobody understands.would a twist like that actually get people more interested in Overlord again because there's finally some real danger and uncertainty?or would it just piss off the part of the fanbase that's mainly reading it for the salaryman power fantasy and wants to watch Nazarick steamroll everyone?
>>291248561After S3 Rudy never suffers another defeat. The only time he suffers a character conflict is in a spinoff novel where his sister become a pedophile.
>so it got me wondering: would something like that work with Overlord? say a new character gets introduced and hyped up in the usual way. everyone expects Ainz or one of the guardians to crush him like every other threat.except this time they don't.the guy is actually strong. not just "strong by New World standards" either. he manages to kill a high-level Nazarick NPC in a way that Ainz can't just revive them afterward. maybe he has some kind of ability that doesn't follow YGGDRASIL's rules at all, like some strange form of Wild Magic nobody understands.Normally I would have answered with something like “Maruyama would never have the balls…,” but then I remembered that Gacha actually introduced a character like this.When Nazarick first tries to attack pic related, he one-shotted Sebas. Later he manages to take over Nazarick, forcing Ainz and the guardians to reconquer it.
>>291255636>>291256148Forgot to give (you)
>>291255636Maruyama won't kill a Nazarick guardian, ever.
>>291255525Is there any other kind?
>>291255636>or would it just piss off the part of the fanbase that's mainly reading it for the salaryman power fantasy and wants to watch Nazarick steamroll everyone?The bizarre thing is that Ainz's power fantasy is very shitty. He can't even bang Albedo because he's a skeleton with no cock or sexual drive. Everything else is mostly just problems finding him and him solving those problems with zero satisfaction. He never has any desires he fulfills, or anything like that. Rimuru is the salaryman power fantasy, because he gets to do shit like pic related. But who the fuck would wish to be Ainz?
need an anime with a genuine evil main character that genocides other racesand it's a good anime
>>291252378sorry reader-kun maruyama just really had to focus on elf kingdom>write 1.5 volume of garbage and sells it as 2 volumes to pad out numbers
>overlord is pretty much dead, conversation mostly stopped, years since last volume, all real discussion dried up>>stakestards will still not shut the fuck up about how they want this dead corpse of a series to have been like their other isekais
Overlord just works 10 times better in light novel format, there's multiple interesting inner monologues from Ainz that the anime skipped
Overlord would work if eventually the resources wear thin, sure he one shots and conquer shit, but everything is a limited mana/item pool to the point he has to manage to keep expanding or reinforcing, but slowing down the conquer would show sign of weakness so other realms would start meddling itdunno im just trying to think on how to make shit interesting
>>291259883>there's multiple interesting inner monologues from Ainz that the anime skippedMeanwhile Ainz's monologues>I'm going to whine about how I don't understand anything and repeat the joke about me being a silly salarymen for the 99999th time!
>>291259996Just having a single other guild member being transported (one with human morals) would make a massive difference since it means the NPCs will have conflicts regarding which of the two to serve. Nazarick is by concept too overpowered for even an army of players to beat, so the only way for the story to have stakes (without changing anything about the setting) is to lean into infighting.
>>291260157other would be since the domain keeps getting larger Ainz gives his NPC diferent areas, but since they have diferent views of how to manage the borders/jelousy/just dont like each other, they try to assasinate eachother to show ainzs who is the best lap dogbut yeah the way to go is start some sort Nazarick civil war
>>291259774Maybe if it were more like other isekais, it wouldn't have died.When you look at Maruyama's body of work, it becomes obvious that he's a very shitty planner. The first sign of this was the Overlord WN - it was a completely different story from the LN (which was the reason why he dropped it), meaning that Maruyama never had a solid throughline in his mind. He just made shit up from some vague concepts that he had. Not having stakes is the primary symptom of that - Ainz is a professional anhill torturer because introducing weaknesses is like hanging Chekhov's guns on the walls - each will have to fire at some point, and that requires solid planning. So why bother? Just make him all-powerful and all-seeing, and whatever he doesn't see, his own luck will figure out for him. But oops, now you can't end your series in a satisfying way. And that's how Maruyama played himself.
none of it matters because we'll all be 90 by the time the next volume comes out
>>291260224>According to a tweet from the author, as of December 31, 2025, the volume has an estimated 240,000 characters written, with plans for an additional 30,000 or so more before he will revise everything from the beginning, flesh out the characters, and tweak the dialogue.In other words, he hasn't even finished the first draft in three years. We're not seeing this shit ever.
>>291233074I like how retarded he is that part is relatable to me
>>291260283For comparison, on average, it takes a writer like Maruyama three to four months to write a light novel volume. People like Fuse, Tappei, and Rifujin manage 3-4 books per year.
>>291253695>most of villains are absolutely devoid of any personality whatsoeverReally? Like, I get maybe Gelmud, and perhaps the psychotic otherworlder trio, along with Gaiye and Rainer, but those usually weren't the main antagonists. But saying that the likes of Orc Disaster Geld, Mariabell, Yuuki and Granbell are "devoid of any personality whatsoever" reeks of terminal speedwatching. Then there's Clayman who seems like a shallow antagonist at first glance, but there are some hints scattered throughout his scenes that indicate that there's more to his situation than is outwardly let on. Though I admit that the anime fucked up in the sense that it completely left out a very important lore-cue from the LN/manga that would make it much easier to understand what is going on with Clayman, but now that we are getting Clayman REVENGE next Spring, perhaps people will reevaluate Clayman again before, during and/or after that spin-off airs.
I only care about Albedo. Zero fucks given about the rest of this series.
>>291260213>it wouldn't have died. It's dead because maruyama lost motivation, not because it failed to follow the great literary advances of mt or slime or whatever resulting in everyone dropping it>where muh stakes, bad planning!!!!No one cares about your opinion of what should have happened, you don't understand this series, just go and watch the lowest common denominator shit you actually like rather than clinging to threads on this series you fundamentally dislike but imagine could be something elseThat it's something you can't like is what makes it distinct
>>291259575>Rimuru has loyal frens and equals that he doesn't need to pretend to be something he isn't nor larp as le EVIL overlord when among them>all his subordinates will call him out on his bullshit if they deem necessary, they will freely banter with him too>is a literal slime so he can have any body he wants, the sex possibilities is limtless and bitches are fighting to be his first wifeCharacters like Cid and Rimuru are living the life and having absolutely fun while at it, hell even subaru and tanya are better off compared to Ainz, it's like Maruyama realized that's Ainz's life is too miserable and near impossible for a satisfying ending that isn't the evil eye side story where he actually moves on from his guild and has new frens where he can do what he wants
>>291260224Maruyama can't afford to do like GRRM and just live on the royalties, he will finish overlord if only to squeeze some extra money out of the nips before dropping off from the face of the earth
>>291260714Maruyama lost his motivation precisely because Fuse completely fucking styled on him. The student surpassed the teacher so hard, he finished his series with double the book count at half the time, and now rakes in mad cash as his anime adaptation absolutely dominates the ratings in Japan and Tensura literally became the best-selling LN in history.If I were Maruyama, I would be one bad day away from sudoku.
>>291260619Granbell and Mariabell are like a personality void, they are so fucking blank and boring it's unreal. >Orc Disaster GeldIs like a big ass mob you hae to kill.>Yuuki He's the only villain worth a damn yea. >ClaymanCould be interesting but he barely got any spotlight and just died like a bitch.
>>291250893Perhaps, but Ainz is given to be convinced by moments where someone puts their money where their mouth is in general
>>291261341The funny thing is that Overlord at its peak (around the time Overlord S2 and S3 aired) had higher LN sales per LN volume than Tensura ever reached to this day. Even the Overlord manga, albeit not as much as the Tensura manga, was selling quite a large amount of volumes, reaching 6-digit sales and had it kept this up, it might rival or even surpass Tensura's LN+manga combined sales, but that didn't happen because first off, the manga was left far behind the LN and anime, so its relevance and sales drastically declined. Even here I would have expected people to pay attention to the Overlord manga reaching the Shub Niggurath goats scenes that the anime ruined, but seemingly no one even gave a shit to check how good it was because they just didn't care about the manga anymore. And because of those long breaks between volumes, the LN sales also declined to the point the most recent Overlord LN sales were actually far below Tensura's LN volume sales average. Meanwhile Tensura ""invented"" the idea of leaving the manga enough breathing room to remain relevant to the audience by having each anime arc only ever catch up or at most only slightly go beyond the manga at the end of each block of seasons/cours (which several other WN/LN-based adaptations imitated) while the LN's main story is already finished and the LN is now moving onto afterstories and sidestory-extras. Fuse also had slumps because he isn't really built for writing climatic consecutive war/battle volumes, but although the releases took more time due to the battle-heavy final arc, it never went beyond two years max between volumes. Maruyama on the other hand is such a weak little sister that he wrote nothing for several years now and no new release announcement in sight.
>>291254275>Isn't the whole civil war thing a moot point because without the supreme beings every coming back there is no reason for the npcs to have conflicting loyalties?Maybe, but Ainz accidentally made Aura and Mare suspicious of Albedo in the 2 recent volumes which was one of the few important plot points. It might be a resolution where Ainz narrowly avoids it or has to mend relations between both parties
>>291261601As expected, it's terminal speedwatching-syndrome.
>>291256039It's less the fact he doesn't suffer a defeat and more that it feels like he didn't grow before S3 and I get the feeling he won't grow after. He's static and boring imo and it's frustrating to watch the show admit that yeah, he never learns
>>291261909Do you know what charisma is?
>>291259575>But who the fuck would wish to be Ainz?Midwits. Overlord isn't pure wish fulfillment. There is some elements of it, but ultimately Ainz is in a shit position with no real friends and doing shit just so he can cling on to the couple of things he hasn't lost yet
>>291248956No Ainz only added a single line. Her being a virgin was part of her original backstory.
>>291259996H did plan for that by trying to create magical items by using runes and Demiurge created a way to mass produce low tier scrolls.
>>291262190Ainz replaced the "also she is a total slut" line with "also she loves Momonga"
>>291248956>>291262190NTA, but it's like this: Originally Albedo was supposed to be acting like a slut despite still being a virgin. Momonga/Ainz left the virgin part intact but removed the slut part and replaced that with "being deeply in love with Momonga".
>>291262344>Originally Albedo was supposed to be acting like a slut despite still being a virgin.Wrong. He replaced only one line at the end, nothing else wan mentioned about virginity
>>291261341>Maruyama lost his motivation precisely because Fuse completely fucking styled on himIt seemed to coincide with the side story shit where he got ultra ass mad from people sharing a side story, and westerners translating it too. Until you entered the threads I never even gave a thought about slime nor saw it mentioned
>>291259883It's unadaptable.
>>291262413I didn't remember that the LN specified her entire setting (IS it the entire setting or just an excerpt though?)... so then her being a virgin was really just an "implicit" inference by whatever higher power that turned her into a living being, that she would keep herself a virgin for Momonga and also didn't fuck anyone before falling in love with Momonga "historically" speaking? I guess that works.
>>291262926>I didn't remember that the LN specified her entire settingThere is a side document detailing it.>so then her being a virgin was really just an "implicit" inference by whatever higher power that turned her into a living being, that she would keep herself a virgin for Momonga and also didn't fuck anyone before falling in love with Momonga "historically" speaking? I guess that works.Basically.
>>291233074This is why I dropped this series years and years ago in the middle of S2
>>291260157>>291260197If the infighting resulted in halving Ainz's NPCs permanently, I'd be fine with it. But just like when he bitched out of destroying Shalltear, Ainz would just rez the fallen and lose nothing. Named characters desperately need trimming, but magic prevents that.
I like power fantasy but the actual power fantasy in this is so fucking boring.>look at me go I'm stacking buffs
>>291263151There are story elements they could use to make it work, but it's hard to say until and if it actually happens. Once Overlord finishes we will have the benefit of hindsight to see where all the plot threads were leading, but for now it's pretty premature to say nothing matters when we have no idea what direction the story will go with any of it
>>291263158You are indeed stacking buffs, anon. Why did you greentext that as if you weren't actually referring to yourself?
>>291263214>Once Overlord finishesLMAO. Just like the Game of Thrones novels, right?
>>291263299Once a decade passes with no new releases besides faggy gacha and other side shit then you can talk you want about it not finishing.Though I hope we still have a translator by the time it does happen, he could have died and we just don't know
>>291263299nta but GoT is a different story altogether, not only the tv show is done martin is>way too old already>rich as fuck>will keep having tv series done about his books even after he dies thanks to all the side material he already wrote about>is a celebrity and can make money just from guest appearances aloneMaruyama already bitched on how he didn't make as much money as he hoped for otherwise he wouldn't talk about how much he misses being a salaryman, no matter how unmotivated he feels finishing the books guarantees some extra money for himself and at least one last season
>>291260283>We're not seeing this shit ever.is ainz destroying the slane theocracy with no opposition really compelling enough of a concept tho?
>>291263158>I like power fantasylike?
>>291263520The interesting things are seeing if the other plot threads bear fruit in some way, the Slane Theocracy lost all relevance the moment Ainz finally figured out it was them. Honestly I kind of hope that either the volumes are huge or if there isn't enough space that they get mostly off screened because there is way more important shit to wrap up
>>291263620>plot threadswhat plot threads
>>291263845>Ainz struggling to get his NPCs to treat him as equal instead of an all knowing entity and resolving whether or not he successfully is able to get this to happen or if it ends in disaster>Albedo doing shit that the other guardians would not like and the consequences of that, probably a catalyst for the above point>elaborating on the Dragon Lords and discussing how the New World, YGGDRASIL, and the real world are interlinked>Ainz spilling the beans on his real origin to the guardians and everyone else, he hasn't revealed this to anyone because of how paranoid he is, might also lead to point 1A lot of stuff
>>291248281>Platinum got completely played by Pandora's Actor. DLs are being setup as the ultimate jobbers.Wasn't that just an empty armor set? I thought the real would be more powerful and can actually be a threat.Though I'm not holding my breath after 16 shit books...
>>291260815isnt he an office worker?
>>291260815despite how bad overlord is I can't see it being as bad as slime volume 18-23
>>291264697how so? i dont read that
>>291264847the author wrote out the titular character for the 5 of the 6 volumes because power levels reached the point where he trivialised every fight
>>291233074I saw the first arc of the first season and he seemed like he was super fucking pissed his pals got murdered. The impression I got is he says he doesn't care but he actually cares.
>>291264312>I thought the real would be more powerful and can actually be a threat.PDL obviously stronger than the armor but alone he can only do so much against people with world items. His best bet would to make a coalition that is politically not subvariant to Ainz, but still doesn't directly oppose him, then just wait for either a new crop of players or a chance to kick Ainz's ass when he inevitably fumbles something later on down the track. PDL has been really sluggish diplomatically and has basically let Ainz completely seize the initiative.I think in the next volumes he might even be dumb enough to use Ainz invading the Theocracy as an excuse to drag his own nation into the war, but it depends if the author is going to have a conclusive ending or an open one
>>291233074>boring power fantasythat's not boring nor is it a power fantasy, kill yourself retard
It astounds me that people go into threads about Overlord to essentially complain that it isn't a shounen as if that is a bad thing
>>291255489It was never mentioned that there was a rebellion or that most of the guild members were being hunted. The only one that was confirmed to have been killed was pic related, the rest of this is reaching and most of the other guild members lived pretty normal lives (for their dystopia anyway).Touch Me was a police officer sure, but it was never mentioned what Ulbert did
>>291243412>>Is it a show about a normal guy descending into evil?>No.>>An outsider in a cruel world who fights for change?>Partially, but it isn't the main focus.>>The amorality of life?>No.Okay, but this does not address any of my critiques. I'm pointing out issues in the narrative: "Our story values this. Just kidding, not it doesn't". It does that too often. Nothing to invest in as an audience.>He gave Foresight multiple chances to not only save themselves, but to explain themselves too.Yeah that's cruel, and that's my point. If you were hired to explore an abandoned building that turned out not to be abandoned, and you were held hostage by the owner and forced into a fight to the death in a battle you can not win, then you would consider that to be cruel and evil.>but there was a secret combination of words they could have used where maybe he would have let them go!He murdered 5 people for unknowingly trespassing.>Also the anime is a trash adaption in general.I like the show, I just wish it was more consistent. Glad you like the LN, maybe I'll give those a try.
>>291259996>how to make shit interestingSatoru gets double isekai'd and wakes up as a goblin in another setting.
>>291265758>Okay, but this does not address any of my critiques. I'm pointing out issues in the narrativeThose aren't issues and you don't seem to understand what the story is telling you, which is that the story is about Ainz being afraid to disappoint people, too afraid to let go of the past unless he is forced to, and that he constantly puts himself in uncomfortable positions to serve these two things because he has a massive underlying paranoia and a fear of the unknown. The other side of the coin is that he likes exploring the physical unknown of the untamed wilderness. It's a nice little parallel.>Yeah that's cruel, and that's my point. If you were hired to explore an abandoned building that turned out not to be abandoned, and you were held hostage by the owner and forced into a fight to the death in a battle you can not win, then you would consider that to be cruel and evil.Ainz isn't some moral paragon or a clean upright person, he's incredibly biased towards things he likes. Considering his character it was nice of him to even give them a couple chances to save themselves, even if they squandered all of it.>He murdered 5 people for unknowingly trespassing.See above. Ainz was both right and wrong for this. Ultimately the ones to blame are Fluder and Jircniv who sent them essentially knowing they would die, but politically Jircniv wanted to see where Ainz lay and if he could use him or not with Fluder's urging. Ainz didn't mastermind this plot, he just went along with it. Was it out of line for him to kill them? A bit. Did they squander their multiple chances to live? Yes. Also lets be clear that they knew the risks of danger, it's not like he lured a group of children down to die, it was literally their profession and they bit off more than they could chew, then they sealed their fate by not being honest.>Glad you like the LN, maybe I'll give those a try.The show is awful compared to the LN, but the most recent 3 volumes haven't been great.
>>291233074I think the premise of a doomed world is interesting only if hope isn't completely snuffed out. The Guardians are only liked because we want to have sex with them, whereas the human NPCs are very interesting when we're watching them struggle and survive by the skin of their teeth, often leading to deaths.A setting with multiple interesting characters that inspire hope, all of whom could die at any moment, is a good formula. You want them to win, but when they die it's heartbreaking, but there's still hope among the other prospective heroes. It would have to be slowburn in that the goal isn't to destroy Ainz or his faction, but to kill a single Guardian, which would be a massive accomplishment and take several years. A story like that would be fun, leading into future generations to battle the rest of them.
>>291265966>The Guardians are only liked because we want to have sex with themWhat? Cocytus, Demiurge, and Sebas are all cool and I'm not a faggot. I would rail Albedo, Shalltear, Aura, and the meidos (both battle and regular) but I like the nuances in how they show their loyalty based on their different alignments, backstories, and creators for the Nazarick characters
>>291265766how useful would Satoru carefulness and meticulous planning be as a gobbo?
>>291252665I wouldn't go as far as ancient greek stories, but gulliver's travels are isekai, and are exactly a month away from being 300 years old
>>291266245in a way futurama is an isekai
>>291247885Asia is basically a continent of incels, statistically speaking based off their birth rates being the lowest in human history. Thus do their thoughts function as such: "*I* want to live a better life, *I* want to be the hero" as opposed to the Western concept of "as long as there's a fantasy story being told, that's good enough for me. I don't need to self insert as Gandalf, but being a wizard would still be sick"For Asians, they are so miserable that it HAS to be them, and not a fantasy version of them, but LITERALLY them in their plain clothes. It's not just that it would be cool, but it's a desperate desire to simply escape their shitty life.
Mare wins the bone.
>>291266996gay
>>291266996
>>291267064>>291267083Yas very gay indeed.
>>291266996Mare is for getting raped by elven maids.Ainz is for Aura
>>291267519Mare is gay.
>>291267567Mare will have no choice in getting raped by elven maids
>>291263620The only way to actually force serious conflict in Overlord would be to introduce an Yggdrassil player who's not Momonga. Maybe someone not from Nazarick, but who's familiar with it, and knows what it actually was. That someone, for example, could tell Albedo what Momonga did to "rewrite" her psyche, this throwing an actual spanner into Ainz's plans, and sowing doubt among his crew. Overlord needs an antagonist who wouldn't just stand on the same level as Ainz, but who could exploit Ainz's weaknesses.Unless this happens, I just don't see how the story could evolve. The new world by this point is full of jobbers, and it's also impossible for the guardians themselves to devolve into factionalism because Ainz is more powerful than them, he wouldn't let it get bad enough without someone else pushing the issue.
>>291267603>The only way to actually force serious conflict in Overlord would be to introduce an Yggdrassil player who's not MomongaNot really unless you are talking about physical conflict, which isn't the point of the series anyway.>That someone, for example, could tell Albedo what Momonga did to "rewrite" herAinz already told her that he did this and she didn't care.>Overlord needs an antagonist who wouldn't just stand on the same level as Ainz, but who could exploit Ainz's weaknessesNot really.>Unless this happens, I just don't see how the story could evolveHere are multiple things that need to happen by the next two volumes and the series ends >>291263998There is literally not enough time for your fanfic to play out
>>291263214>novels are getting lenghtier than fucking lord of the rings>still no fucking signs of a endgoali like overlord too but men we gotta accept the writing is beyong subpar shit not knowing what to do with the characters
>>291267603>could tell Albedo what Momonga did to "rewrite" her psychei mean isn't it possible for her to know and simply not care?
>>291233074Ainz is unlikable because the faggot anime staff and producers forced the gay diversity line and they cuck him out of doing actual evil deeds which demiurge ends up doing off screen
>>291267959The set up is all there.Whether or not Maruyama can execute is something else entirely. The end goal is Ainz to finally cast off the impossible expectations that the NPCs have for him and to be more equal to them. He wants to treat them like his own children and the children of his friends and not as an absolute master. There are a lot of ways that he could go about writing this in ways that make sense with the current pieces on the board, but volumes 14, 15, and 16 have shaken my faith on if he can deliver for sure. Most of it was nothing and while there was some substance, at least 70% of 15 and 16 especially were completely skippable. 14 was a mixed bag with some good and some bad moments.How people are going to look back at Overlord imo depends on the type of ending he goes for. It might be open with a possibility of continuation later, it might be good (everything works out despite struggles), and it might be bad (depressing, everything is miserable and nothing changes). Whatever ending he does, he is at least going to have to solve 2-3 of these plot threads for people to be somewhat happy >>291263998There are other ones too but those are the most crucial for having an ending that people are at the very least okay with
>rimuru slime glazer enters the overlord thread again to shill his dogshit story The author makes rimuru OP then makes him job and do retarded shit like let villains get away and escape which makes him and ciel look like giant retards And the battles all suck ass and the enemies are boring Imagine writing a story inspired by overlord Tsuikimichi and dbz and having boring designs and boring villains >Hurr I can time travel and my power level is infinity and rimuru has the powers of both the androids cell and majin buu but he still lets villains escape and get away with shit despite being infinitely powerful>Hurrdurr my sword is named HopeSlimefags will defend this Overlord despite all of its flaws still manages to be coolSlime just becomes increasingly embarrassing
>>291233074Remember when he got mad when a fat prince got killed and his head given to him?
>>291267645>Not really unless you are talking about physical conflict, which isn't the point of the series anyway.I'm talking about any kind of serious conflict whatsoever. Like, fucking anything that's bigger than whatever we had before this point. Also, teasing the existence of other players from the beginning and not doing anything with it ever is just amateur hour shit.>Ainz already told her that he did this and she didn't careI don't remember that, but if he did - sasuga Maruyama, wouldn't expect anything less.
>>291247547Are U new here?
>>291233074At least he doesn't roleplay as a toddler and has sex with underages
>>291250429>>291250893I miss her
>>291268852>I'm talking about any kind of serious conflict whatsoever.Again, the set up is already there for conflict and some serious shit going down, whether or not he can deliver is another question entirely.>Also, teasing the existence of other players from the beginning and not doing anything with it ever is just amateur hour shit.It's pretty clear that when players and bases do come they come sporadically, with even hundreds of years separating appearances. Most players pick humanoid races and would have died long ago. In the Isekai Quartet movie this very thing happens>I don't remember that, but if he did - sasuga Maruyama, wouldn't expect anything less.It happens pretty early on I think.
>>291269126I found it. Literally in volume 1
>>291233074>Added in gay isekai element exclusively because the author wasn't confident in writing this exact same story in a sincere mannerDropped right there and then
>>291269126>Again, the set up is already there for conflict and some serious shit going down, whether or not he can deliver is another question entirelyIf it's there, I can't see it. No force in the new world can match Ainz. The Slane Theocracy was initially positioned as somewhat competent, but now it's obvious that they're getting steamrolled just like everyone else. And whatever misunderstanding Albedo has brewing will be resolved because Albedo is the guardian with more plot armor than anyone else, nothing could happen to her.I didn't get into Overlord to watch Ainz go to couples therapy with his underlings while lazily swatting away at various faceless shitters. That's just not fucking fun. But that's what this story seems to be devolving into by the end.
>>291269262Overlord isn't a shounen, anon. The fights were never the focus.
>>291269279What the fuck is Overlord then? It's not shonen, it's not political drama, it's not comedy, it's not nation building, it's not a power fantasy. What the fuck is it?
>>291269306Character study of Ainz (and his NPCs by extension) is the number 1 focus, black comedy, world building, political scheming, and nation building are the other main focuses. The politics are nice but they are fundamentally not the main focus. Notice how physical fights are not even on there. They occur and are necessary to the plot at points, but Ainz never had his main goal simply to be to become the strongest or fight someone. If anything he is specifically constructing his nation to appeal to other players that might show up
>>291269379And from pretty early on it was established that the biggest threats to Nazarick are within it
>>291233323you could say he's the realest in a stupid scenario, but I don't care about a forced-emotionless middle aged wagiehe's just not interesting at all, the whole story goes down the drain because of him
>>291249859I love overlord. I actually really enjoyed the movie. One of the better times I've had with an anime movie over the last 5 years.
>>291263261>Australian PowerStill makes me kek
>>291269379But Ainz doesn't get any interesting character moments whatsoever (beyond his salaryman gags). The comedy hardly works as a pillar of the whole story. There's no political scheming because nothing anyone could do ever impacts Ainz, and the only person who actually tried to do some politicial stuff ended up getting BTFO as described in the picture here >>291244373 . Nation building also happens entirely off-screen.Overlord, to me, always operated on the assumption that something will eventually throw Ainz off his groove and the real conflict will start. He can't be perpetually correct about everything, nor can he be truly omnipotent. But now that we're approaching literal final pages of the story, it becomes apparent that the assumption was wrong.
I just came to say that elf arc is literally unreadable, I will probably force myself to power through it once the final volume is released.
>>291269762it's really not that worth it hell you can skip book 1 of it entirely
>>291269804Meh, I don't like skipping books even if they are unnecessary, I even enjoyed lizards adventure but this elf shit really dragged.
>>291269851Lizards are good and were never bad it was just anime onlys jumping in to the LN after season 1 and getting hit with lizard sex
>>291269742>But Ainz doesn't get any interesting character moments whatsoeverI disagree. Ainz is constantly beating himself up over mistakes, especially early on.>The comedy hardly works as a pillar of the whole storyIt comes and goes, but there is at least some in every volume.>There's no political scheming because nothing anyone could do ever impacts AinzNot the point, and part of the political scheming is that multiple sides end up fucking up at points. The Kingdom especially shows a lot of intrigue that you would expect of a declining nation before vol 14 happens>Nation building also happens entirely off-screen.This is just wrong, we constantly see Ainz going out and making big deals and decisions to expand, integrate, cooperate, and conquer. What happens off screen that makes you complain?>something will eventually throw Ainz off his grooveHe never has moments of comfort. If the current plot threads are executed well then it will force Ainz to make big decisions, but the steady build up to that has been happening all throughout the series. To me it seems like you want an outside power when we literally have seen that the other players that came here basically blew themselves up as well, and Ainz is steadily on track to doing the same thing. The last arc and how it plays out will make or break the narrative and will decide if all the set up makes the pay off worth it>>291269762It's definitely the worst arc so far. 70% of it at minimum is pretty skippable, I don't know how the editors didn't say "what the fuck is this shit" when so much of the books are just characters doing fuck all.>>291269804Book 1 has some important lines and plot points, but yeah between the two it is worse.
>>291269910You definitely like the lizards more if you have read from the beginning instead of starting where S1 left off. A lot of people also skip the side stories when there are a lot of big details there
>>291269424But that doesn't show anything. Yes, Albedo is obsessed with Ainz. But Albedo can't die, and neither would she kill other Guardians, because Ainz wouldn't let her, and she has no power over him. This would only have weight if, for example, Albedo's real creator appeared, and forced her to make a choice. Then the bit you posted would become relevant.
>>291269916You gotta remmeber the elf arc was written during covid so it was basically fucked>>291269948Yeah some of my favorite things from overlord were the side stuff I really liked the Enri Emmot/Carne Village arc a ton so seeing how all that grew and developed was one of the better side things and then really anything with Jircniv I've gone back and re-read volume 10 just for him and also the Ainz and Adventurer Guild scene where he wins them to his side really it's a solid volume but I digress my point is side stuff in overlord can be really strong but holy fuck the elves suck
>>291269953>Albedo's real creator appeared, and forced her to make a choiceAlbedo would pick Ainz every time and hates her own creator and everyone else in the guild. As for the rest of your post it entirely depends how it plays out, I can think of a lot of scenarios where she would do something really fucked and Ainz just gets fucked by guilt from it. Ainz is nothing but driven by guilt and his friends, so he could potentially be pretty torn by Albedo ultimately trying to convince him that he was abandoned and the rest of the NPCs still being loyal. He might even use the opportunity to make a new guild with the NPCs and come clean about everything, or everything could blow up in his face, or who knows what else. There is a lot of stuff that could be done, it just depends on if Maruyama can actually deliver on the set up>>291270006Elves are shit and I have no idea how those books got past the editors as they were. Maybe they just wanted him to release anything at that point. This was after the side story melty too, so he had lost some motivation by then.
>>291269916>I disagree. Ainz is constantly beating himself up over mistakes, especially early on.But he never makes any mistakes. Nazarick never loses anything or anyone, and only gains in territory. He doesn't actually have moments of legitimate weakness because he doesn't have legitimate weaknesses.>Not the point, and part of the political scheming is that multiple sides end up fucking up at points. The Kingdom especially shows a lot of intrigue that you would expect of a declining nation before vol 14 happensYes, but all that intrigue boils down to "the princess is evil, so she sells everyone out to Ainz, the end". Literally nothing else matters, because everyone's dead by the end anyway, and not at their own hands.>This is just wrong, we constantly see Ainz going out and making big deals and decisions to expand, integrate, cooperate, and conquer.He does so almost entirely by accident and with zero forethought. All legitimate planning is done through Demiurge and Albedo pretending to understand what Ainz wants and just making it happen.>He never has moments of comfortI would say the opposite, he never has moments of discomfort. He bums around all day as the world around him crumbles into a shape convenient for him. I fucking wish he had to struggle with any of the decisions he makes, but that never happens.>To me it seems like you want an outside power when we literally have seen that the other players that came here basically blew themselves up as well, and Ainz is steadily on track to doing the same thing.That's a good thing to assume, but as things stand, there's no way for Ainz to blow himself up. It's unfathomable, and whatever Maruyama does would feel like an asspull at this stage, because Ainz is just that powerful. His only real point of weakness are the guardians, but they can only become their own downfall, not his, and he can resurrect them.
>>291270072>Albedo would pick Ainz every time and hates her own creator and everyone else in the guild.Yes, but what if Tabula had some leverage over her? What if he could somehow revert Ainz's edit, the only thing that shaped Albedo into his follower? That would be a fun thing to explore, forcing her to struggle between her programming and whatever life she led in the new world. It would also impact other guardians, because they weren't edited by Ainz, and thus have no such overbearing allegiance to him specifically. And imagine how Ainz would actually struggle if one of his old pals shows up and becomes antagonistic. But it's not gonna happen, because all other members of Ainz's guild are window dressing, their only role is to be his backstory.
>>291270281>But he never makes any mistakesHe does though. Multiple times. >Nazarick never loses anything or anyone, and only gains in territory. He doesn't actually have moments of legitimate weakness because he doesn't have legitimate weaknesses.He is mentally pretty weak to the point that with the right wording and presentation, you can convince him to do a lot of different things, and he constantly beats himself up over his inadequacies and missteps.>Yes, but all that intrigue boils down to "the princess is evil, so she sells everyone out to Ainz, the end". Literally nothing else matters, because everyone's dead by the end anyway, and not at their own hands.Not really. Ainz shows Zanack due deference and takes the time to avenge him dying in a shit way instead of honorably. Ranpossa could have investigated Phillip and handed him over instead of assuming his innocence, etc. A lot of people in the Kingdom could have saved themselves and didn't. Contrast that against the Empire which did save itself and ally with him. The politics matters and the people who ignore it are always the ones who end up paying for it in Overlord. Even Ainz is starting to fall prey to this because of Albedo doing stuff behind his back and thinking herself hot shit that can predict him when even he has no idea what the fuck he is doing.>He does so almost entirely by accident and with zero forethought.Sometimes he does, other times he doesn't. He conciously chose to deal with the adventuring problem by giving them new jobs, and he did plenty of other things like his Runecraft shilling and his decision to rent undead to other nations to make them dependent on him, which the Dragonic Kingdom ended up doing.>I would say the opposite, he never has moments of discomfortHe literally has to go through multiple layers of trickery to even read books he wants to. His life sucks and his only joy is the children (NPCs)>whatever Maruyama does would feel like an asspull at this stageDepends.
>>291270413>Yes, but what if Tabula had some leverage over her? What if he could somehow revert Ainz's editCan already be done with memory magic, Ainz edited Shizu's memories so that she didn't have all the access codes and shit anymore in case of capture. It would be an easy fix anyway. imo this is a weak hook for a story, most of the things people have posted are pretty weak and have nothing to do with the narratives pushed by the series and what I like about it>And imagine how Ainz would actually struggle if one of his old pals shows up and becomes antagonistic.He would defer to them most times. Unironically Ainz got picked for the position of guildmaster because everyone liked him and all he did was call votes>their only role is to be his backstoryNot just him, all the NPCs. You see glimpses time and time again of how while Ainz has basically lost hope of finding them, some of the NPCs are hoping that they might still show up. Aura and Mare especially are coping that their creator will return somehow, you see it a lot in the side media too
>Remedios never discovers the thing kicking her ass isn't even the real JaldabaothDumb bitch earned every defeat
>>291233074I think you should give the Death Mage novels a chance. the protagonist can sometimes be very evil but in a really creative way, also can be rational and admit his own mistakes, and since he already told everyone in the world that he is a reincarnated person from another world there is no need to act cringey pretending to be someone else.I started re reading the novels after years and it-s still amazing, i strongly recommend it.
>>291270700>Can already be done with memory magic, Ainz edited Shizu's memories so that she didn't have all the access codes and shit anymore in case of capture. It would be an easy fix anyway. imo this is a weak hook for a story, most of the things people have posted are pretty weak and have nothing to do with the narratives pushed by the series and what I like about itI was thinking something more drastic - actually changing Albedo's core prompt so her entire backstory shifts, like how Ainz changed it in the first place. She would be able to use the bicorn, for example, because her background is back to its "normal" setting. But all her memories from the new world also remain. Maybe it's something only the creator of the NPC would be able to do. A power like that would be somewhat of an asspull, since we don't see Ainz do anything like that to Pandora's Actor, but maybe he just never thought about it, wouldn't be the first time.>Not just him, all the NPCs. You see glimpses time and time again of how while Ainz has basically lost hope of finding them, some of the NPCs are hoping that they might still show up. Aura and Mare especially are coping that their creator will return somehow, you see it a lot in the side media tooSo imagine how great it would be if they do. Except, maybe they wouldn't be happy with what Ainz has been doing. We know that the previous players imploded because of their infighting, so maybe it's time we actually see some here. It even feels like the only natural way for the story to go, since it would force the guardians to pick sides and antagonize each other, which is not something they should be able to do with Ainz in charge (he can subdue all of them once they start fighting).
>>291269762it's so bad, the page count is higher than 1 volume but not high enough for 2 volumeshe wastes so much time blabbering about pointless awkward elf interactions then rushes through the actual important elf king fight thing, and the big important development is literally the last page
>>291271121>actually changing Albedo's core prompt so her entire backstory shifts, like how Ainz changed it in the first placeAgain, I'm saying it can be changed back.>So imagine how great it would be if they doPart of the series is seeing how they grow by themselves and interpret what they want from their fuzzy impressions of what they would have wanted. We already have an example of an NPC interacting with his creator/father with Pandora's actor.>Except, maybe they wouldn't be happy with what Ainz has been doing. We know that the previous players imploded because of their infighting, so maybe it's time we actually see some hereIt's a predictable ass plot and I hope Maruyama is smart enough to not do this, or if he does at least he makes it a huge timeskip and part of an ending where they only go to the new world centuries after Ainz does. Even then it is better off not happening imo since it counter signals the plot of Ainz slowly getting over his friends and replacing them with the NPCs alongside Albedo being more and more suspicious and hostile to the other NPCs
>>291271254>Part of the series is seeing how they grow by themselves and interpret what they want from their fuzzy impressions of what they would have wanted. We already have an example of an NPC interacting with his creator/father with Pandora's actor.That's great, but at some point, they'll need an "exam" where they actually face their creators to see how they changed.>it counter signals the plot of Ainz slowly getting over his friends and replacing them with the NPCsHe won't be able to get over his friends unless he actually faces them. They will always be like ghosts hovering behind the NPCs until something forces Ainz to tell them a definitive goodbye. And the NPCs are also that way - to truly become their own, they need to move past their creators, but nothing yet has given them a reason to do that. With how Ainz's guild was, how he is as a person, how the NPCs are, and how the new world's backstory is, everything points to the idea of Ainz having to face off against his friends.
>>291271595>they'll need an "exam" where they actually face their creators to see how they changedNo they don't. We, the readers, can see it. It will be enough for them that Ainz would tell them they would be proud anyway. If Ainz isn't someone's #1, he is always the #2 favorite for staying until the end.>He won't be able to get over his friends unless he actually faces themI disagree and the volumes have been stating that he is slowly getting over it and truly starting to see the NPCs as individuals instead of extensions of his friends.>And the NPCs are also that way - to truly become their own, they need to move past their creators, but nothing yet has given them a reason to do thatI disagree. Shalltear is an example of someone who acted how her creator designer her to a tee, regretted it, then tried to do better and be more diligent when she got a second chance. All of the Guardians except Demiurge grow in their own ways, Demiurge is the only one that stays mostly the same, with the tragic irony being that his creator would have been disgusted with him and would have wanted him to change the most.>everything points to the idea of Ainz having to face off against his friendsI disagree. To me this story is about getting over the past while still respecting the memory of it, not fighting people
>>291271718In that case, I don't see how this story can end in a satisfying fashion. Maruyama built all that backstory for the guild and for the "real world", he wrote about the previous isekaijins in the new world, he set Ainz up to be cripplingly obsessed with his former comrades, and all of that amounts to just him... moving on? That's it?
>>291271810Well there could be an open ending where he learns to travel back to his own world somehow and wants to save his guildmates and conquer it, but I'm not sure there is enough time to do that and close the other plot threads, assuming that there are only 2 volumes left.>and all of that amounts to just him... moving on? That's it?Perhaps. There could also be a bad ending where he just loses everything. There's a lot of directions the story could go and depending on the author's competence.
>>291271870I would honestly prefer a bad ending. At least then we would enjoy some cruel irony in Ainz winning almost every battle but ultimately losing the war. Would feel a lot like Youjo Senki.But even for his downfall, there's not enough time, I feel. Just pulling an unbeatable opponent out of Maruyama's ass is not the way, the collapse has to come from within, and the only piece set up for that so far is Albedo. There are only two volumes left, and with how much he has to wrap up, it gives me the vibe of Aka Akasaka getting bored with his series and ending it in a sudden hacky way that everyone hates.
>>291272009>But even for his downfall, there's not enough timeI think a bad ending wouldn't be fantastic either. An open ending that leaves room for a potential sequel later on or a good ending where Ainz and the NPCs finally have a relationship they are both happy with are the only two things I think that would satisfy those conditions I listed earlier and not come off as retarded torture porn.
>>291270564Holy shit, every point you point you make can be addressed with "It doesn't matter". Sasuga, anon-sama!>He does though. Multiple times.Ainz is so overpowered and his servants are so loyal not a single one of this mistakes matters. Even the mistake that caused Shalltear to get brainwashed, nothing ultimately changed inside the Nazarick afterwards>He is mentally pretty weak to the point that with the right wording and presentation, you can convince him to do a lot of different things, and he constantly beats himself up over his inadequacies and missteps.See the point above>Ainz shows Zanack due deference... Ranpossa could have...This doesn't matter at all. Re-Estise destruction happened largely because Ainz is too much of bitch to say No to guardians. In fact, all this politicking ended up largely a waste of time, Nazarick could have just nuked the kingdom from the start.>Sometimes he does, other times he doesn't. He conciously chose to deal...Bla bla bla. More shit that doesn't matter.>He literally has to go through multiple layers of trickery to even read books he wants to. His life sucks and his only joy is the children (NPCs)What a poor skeleton boy, suffering from an entirely self-inflicted "torture" in a world where he is not wageslave anymore People who were sent to Neuronist and cockroach are having a nice time in comparison.If his new life is such a misery he should be trying to return to his previous world (Of course he doesn't lol, he new life is not actually miserable and his "suffering" is joke).>>whatever Maruyama does would feel like an asspull at this stage>Depends.Nazarick sudden arrival is in itself an asspull. Ainz don't get a right to complain if someone stronger will arrive out of nowhere to interrupt his anthill torture.
Holy shit, I'm an ESL.Have a cute Shalltear as an apology for raping the English language.
>>291272716>Ainz is so overpowered and his servants are so loyal not a single one of this mistakes matters. Even the mistake that caused Shalltear to get brainwashed, nothing ultimately changed inside the Nazarick afterwardsAinz is to this day tunnel visioned by rage and paranoia at who did it.>See the point aboveSee point above.>This doesn't matter at all. Re-Estise destruction happened largely because Ainz is too much of bitch to say No to guardians. In fact, all this politicking ended up largely a waste of time, Nazarick could have just nuked the kingdom from the start.It does matter. Re-Estise was dealth with so harshly because of how they acted. If they were more reasonable they would have gotten a more reasonable occupation.>Bla bla bla. More shit that doesn't matter.Okay. It seems like you think only fights matter and not things that influence characters to make certain decisions, so all I can say is that no matter what you won't like Overlord because at the end of the day it isn't about fights.>What a poor skeleton boy, suffering from an entirely self-inflicted "torture" in a world where he is not wageslave anymore People who were sent to Neuronist and cockroach are having a nice time in comparison.No one is saying Ainz can't be a drama queen and overly sentimental. If you hate Ainz or don't find him interesting, stop watching/reading.>If his new life is such a misery he should be trying to return to his previous worldHis previous world was even worse and was a horrible fucking dystopia. Part of the reason he is so fucked up is because the world he came from was pretty merciless already.>Nazarick sudden arrival is in itself an asspull. Ainz don't get a right to complain if someone stronger will arrive out of nowhere to interrupt his anthill torture.Not really, it has been explained that players appear sporadically over the centuries. Key word being "centuries". It doesn't happen in 5 years and is enough even time for kingdoms to rise or fall.
>>291269245>Hanging onto your best days playing mmos with your buddies, wasting your life keeping up a virtual guild hall only you now use.>Unable to move on you are put into Limbo where you have to deal with uncanny valley versions of your friends.>At times they act like your friends as you remember them, but mostly they act according to what edgy teens wrote into a description box.>You are in an immortal skeleton body, your humanity ebbing away while you trick yourself into continuing to prioritise the proof of the time spent with your now absent friends for all eternity.What alternative setup should be used? Isekai seems fine for trapping a character with no hope of escape.
>>291273345>your humanity ebbing awayTo be fair this was already happening before he got transferred. People forget that Ainz comes from a dystopia where he basically had to step over dying orphans on the street every day to get to work, the air was so polluted across the globe that he had to wear a gas mask outside at all times, and that literally the only thing he had in life besides his job was the game.The setting for the original world in Overlord is beyond grim and a lot of fags who can't read between the lines seem to not understand that a lot of his morality came from a weird mixture of trying to survive in a place like that mixed with influences from some of his friends
>>291273244Once again, half the time instead of addressing points you just explain the lore details that don't matter in the grand scheme of thing. Confusing lore for a plot, sasuga!>at the end of the day it isn't about fights.Of course it's not. Overlord is about the power fantasy of torturing irrelevant low-level weaklings while being praised as a genius for doing it. It was fun at first but got old quickly and eventually it became really hard to care about any New Worlder due to just how insignificant they are. Pair this with the fact that Maruyama completely murdered all the story momentum on Nazarick side after Shalltear's incident it's no wonder he ended up writing himself into a corner again.And fun thing about you seething that people ask for conflict and stakes. Maruyama is writing the plot for the AU gacha that has everything you dislike, mainly having actual threats to Nazarick. The way he writes gacha almost feels like him trying to correct mistakes he did while writing LN.
>>291263512There is no fucking way he isn’t making 100 times more bucks bare minimum than he would as a salaryman. All while having near total freedom on his work hours.
>>291235743>but they are not evil enough to be fun to watch be evil.They definitely are evil enough, but Maruyama does a good job of making his antagonists human enough that you feel sorry for them when they get (literally) raped by Nazarick. It's not like Raul where the villains are irredeemable shitbags so that whatever is done to them is justifiable. For the most part Ainz and the Guardians (with the exception of Cocytus) are too cruel and evil for most readers to be comfortable in finding what they do cathartic or cool.
>>291273731> Maruyama is writing the plot for the AU gacha that has everything you dislike, mainly having actual threats to Nazarick.Is he? A little curious now. What kinds of threats is that?
>>291273731>Once again, half the time instead of addressing points you just explain the lore details that don't matter in the grand scheme of thing. Confusing lore for a plot, sasuga!You either don't like or understand the plot so I guess providing details is useless.>Overlord is about the power fantasy of torturing irrelevant low-level weaklings while being praised as a genius for doing itNot really. At least that is never what I liked about it. I always liked to see the interactions with Ainz, the NPCs, and the world around them, and how they change.>Maruyama is writing the plot for the AU gacha that has everything you dislikeI am aware and I don't really care about the gacha because I knew I would have zero interest in it.
>>291243579All of these four suck.And their fandoms can't tolerante the idea of seeing them lost against anything.
>>291273897>>291256148
>>291265707Kino design.
>>291273940I would like that, at least for once one pf these get their asses beaten so hard, and for this to have a significant impact on character development and the story.
>>291233074First of all, it’s stupid, he immediately goes on a power trip, which, in the case of Tensura, for example, would have caused the entire neighborhood to panic and the threat to be neutralized. From the very beginning, Rimuru has deliberately concealed his own power level and that of his village, because they’re growing at an alarming rate anyway.
>>291268281kind of retarded, the entire point of his genocide was to convince the world to never oppose him, so ainz had those guys executed for acting exactly the way the entire campaign was meant to make people act.
What was the point of writing that entire cyberpunk dystopia if it never even gets brought up outside of side materials? There isn't even any official artwork of it. Did Maruyama do it out of his worldbuilding autism and nothing else?
>>291252262>Demon lords in general.huh?
>>291233179That is the plot yes. Well done you solved the case.
>>291273004>raping the English languageBased
>>291274320>What was the point of writing that entire cyberpunk dystopiato make satoru relatable
>>291274320>Did Maruyama do it out of his worldbuilding autism and nothing else?Partially but it also explains why Ainz is fucked up without dwelling on individual moments of his life too much, the only real "trauma" he got from his old life was watching his mom die of exhaustion making a meal for him as a kid and just the passive hopelessness and callousness that comes from a society. I think it was mentioned that he either never knew his dad or that he died way before that as well, but I don't remember.It's one of the few shows where the isekai elements is pretty damn important to the thought process of the character and why he had the fixations he did (and still does) on his friends.A lot of other isekai only use the past life stuff sparingly, for comedy, or purely for tongue in cheek meta commentary
>>291274633>It's one of the few shows where the isekai elements is pretty damn important to the thought process of the characterYou say that, but it literally never gets brought up. In the anime, it's omitted entirely even as it relates on Ainz. I would definitely say that Overlord is one of the isekais where the isekai part is one of its least important moments, same as Re:Zero. Reincarnation is actually important in Mushoku and Tanya, where being not of this world is the protagonist's entire personality and drives everything they do very directly.
>>291233074Isn’t that the point? He’s just a normal middle aged guy that is slowly being corrupted by the avatar he created?
>>291274935>You say that, but it literally never gets brought up.Wrong, it's constantly brought up and pushes the story. He's constantly ruminating on what his friends did, comparing other people to them, remembering stuff they told him, etc. Literally the whole reason he even did the most recent arc was because a guild mate who was a teacher told him that a lack of friends can damage children, which snowballs into a lot of other things. It constantly comes up as a motivation for him. In Youjo Senki it's relevant because Tanya makes a lot of military decisions based on historical knowledge, but in Re:Zero and MT it might as well not be a factor. Subaru is basically just an autistic, entitled eccentric in S1 and in MT Rudy does everything he can to distance himself from his old life (even to the point that he repeats similar arcs over and over again and doesn't learn from his mistakes in his old life or even how to deal with ones in his new life.
>>291275002No, he was always fucked up
the only isekai i can think of my the top of my head where the other world aspect was actually plot relevant, like not just a "this is how it explains the protags actions" thing, but actually became plot relevant was zero no tsukaima, and thats like a twenty year old story.
>>291275063That's the first one I always think of for that scenario too. It's still my favorite isekai out of the ones I've seen. I don't want to rate Overlord because it isn't finished and could go in all sorts of directions, and most other isekai I have seen have been decent but not great, though there are a lot of mixed ones I have seen too. I usually drop the generic or shit ones but I have a guilty pleasure here and there
anyone else notice how LLMs are pretty bias'd towards ainz, like i try getting them to write things where for once ainz and nazarick struggle or even lose but it always tries to somehow figure out how to make them win , like even when i push things to ridiculously one sided scenarios like putting nazarick against the culture, the xeelee or the old ones from manifold ,what is up with that?
>>291275054>In Youjo Senki it's relevant because Tanya makes a lot of military decisions based on historical knowledgeNo, it's relevant in Youjo Senki because Tanya being a modern-age libertarian atheist is the entire reason she gets isekai'd in the first place, and her conflict with Being X is driven by this. Military tactics are something she learns after she's isekai'd, the salaryman was simply a history nerd with a taste for Hearts of Iron.>MT it might as well not be a factorVery wrong. MT is THE isekai where the past life defines the new life. Everything Rudeus is, everything he does, and his every flaw is defined by his past completely. It's a do-over story that goes through every aspect of what Rudeus was, how he could fix himself, and how his past can also ruin him. There's no isekai where the past defines the present as much as it does in Mushoku.
>>291275166No, I don't use AI.My only guess is that Overlord gets more discussion so the AI knows more about it and the AI doesn't scrape as much data about the other shit you are talking about
>>291274320Can confirm, it's a gimmick that author only occasionally remembers.Ainz could have been a salarymen from the modern Japan and nothing relevant would actually change.
>>291275184>No, it's relevant in Youjo Senki because Tanya being a modern-age libertarian atheist is the entire reason she gets isekai'd in the first placeThat too.>Military tactics are something she learns after she's isekai'd, the salaryman was simply a history nerd with a taste for Hearts of Iron.A little of column a and column b>>291275184>Very wrong. MT is THE isekai where the past life defines the new lifeSometimes it is relevant and sometimes it isn't. The biggest periods of relevancy from what I've seen is when he saves his dad's marriage, when he helps Sylhpie, and when he helps Norn. I don't feel like it has been very relevant outside of that and he doesn't really learn from his mistakes. I can't really think of a lot of reincarnation isekai where the origin is consistently relevant besides Youjo Senki. There are some where it is a factor, but not a lot where the baggage constantly informs a character and what he does. There are a lot of times in MT where Rudy just gets lost in the moment and is content to enjoy his new stuff without much thought, Tanya is constantly thinking about her old life and hating Being X. For transportation stuff I always think of Saito who is torn between going home and staying with Louise and Overlord where Ainz is constantly thinking about the old times and his friends.Like don't get me wrong, in MT it comes up sometimes, but for a lot of the story it basically doesn't really do anything for the plot because Rudy just kind of goes where the plot wants him or chills out most of the time
>>291275197>Ainz could have been a salarymen from the modern Japan and nothing relevant would actually change.He definitely would have had to have been way lower on the moral spectrum in modern day compared to dystopia for a lot of the plot to play out the same.
>>291275166I've seen people online say that ainz can take on the entire viltrum empire , so im guessing having stuff like that in an llms training data is probably pushing llms towards "make ainz win no matter what"
>>291275258You don't really need cyberpunk world to create something like a "my mother died from overwork" backstory. Just say that she worked for a black company.
How would people respond if Overlord ended with it being revealed that it was all in Satoru's head?Like, when YGGDRASIL shut down, Satoru had a psychotic break from reality and mentally retreated into a delusional fantasy inside his own head, where he had been isekai'd into a fantasy world and all of his MMO knowledge, items, and accomplishments were suddenly relevant and important.But in reality, he was just some crazy guy in the real world running around while holding a broom like a staff and yelling nonsense , sometimes at random passerbys sometimes at imaginary figures that only seem to exists in his head .
>>291275360>You don't really need cyberpunk worldi mean we already kind of live in one, in this respect Maruyama was ahead of the curve
>>291275360It's not like that one moment caused Ainz to be a bit fucked up and apathetic when it came to other people suffering. Also it shows a lot more why he gave a shit about randoms online when it was the only thing he had to look forward to. It's not like he could go for a walk in the park or something. Also shows why he has so much wonder for the natural beauty of the new world as well. There's a lot of layers to it>>291275384People would probably view the series as a 1/10 and people would talk about the massive wasted potential years after or it would be forgotten as a massive fucking blunder. It's hard to say because it is practically a step away forgotten territory right now,. but sometimes a blunder like that can revive interest
>>291233323/thread
>>291233323if you are going to go evil you got to go full hog with it.
>>291275409>It's not like that one moment caused Ainz to be a bit fucked up and apathetic when it came to other people suffering. Also it shows a lot more why he gave a shit about randoms online when it was the only thing he had to look forward to. It's not like he could go for a walk in the park or something. Also shows why he has so much wonder for the natural beauty of the new world as well. There's a lot of layers to itYep, none of this actually requires cyberpunk world. Thanks for confirming it.
>>291273004>a cute ShalltearRedundant.All Shalltear is cute Shalltearr!
>>291275526K
>>291275613Ainz was poor, stuck in a dead end job and couldn't afford to even visit the countryside.Backstory adapted to a modern setting, here you go.
>>291275697Ainz was middle class (for his time's standards anyway) which is how he could even afford to play the game. Literally all he dumped money on was the game and living necessities. Also doesn't really explain why Ainz liked Touch Me so much or his sheer lack of education and lack of empathy
>>291275599Shalltear is such a dogshit character. She's just a caricature of other, better vampire girls.
>>291275773like?
>>291275599Shalltear was especially cute in vol 11. She was trying so hard. Her and Aura are a really underrated duo
>>291275779Dio brando
>>2912757942/10 Please put in more effort next time.
>>291275841Thank you. Good day.
>>291275779NTA, but to me, she seems like a pretty clear reference to Rachel Alucard from BlazBlue, a very similar gothic loli vampire in a poofy dress. Perhaps Maruyama enjoyed ArcSys fighting games, just like Rifujin.
>>291275875>Perhaps Maruyama enjoyed ArcSys fighting games, just like Rifujin.He would lose immense izzat with me if that were true, I hate basically all arc sys fighters.Also a gothic loli vampire isn't exactly an original concept
>>291275917>Also a gothic loli vampire isn't exactly an original conceptTrue, I'm not saying it with 100% certainty. But Rachel was definitely the most popular loli vampire when Maruyama would've started his work on Overlord.In a similar fashion, Albedo is very similar to Morrigan from Darkstalkers. Although that might be less fair, because Morrigan pretty much defined the archetypal succubus design in Japan. The game was not very successful in the arcades, but the Japanese artists absolutely adored everything about it.
>>291266996Based>>291267519Cringe
>>291275973Did Maruyama design the characters? I thought it was so-bin because Ainz was supposed to look more like a generic lich at first and that got changed. Of course he did the descriptions, but it was someone else who actually drew them, no?Albedo doesn't really remind me of Morrigan that much, probably because no horns. I couldn't tell you who she reminds me of since I've never seen a succ in a similar dress with wings and horns and all. so-bin did a really good job with designs in Overlord, even if early Albedo wasn't quite ironed out yet
>>291276027>Did Maruyama design the characters?He outlined what they look like, and then left the rest to so-bin, as far as I know.>Albedo doesn't really remind me of Morrigan that much, probably because no horns. I couldn't tell you who she reminds me of since I've never seen a succ in a similar dress with wings and horns and allMost variations of succubus designs basically involve taking Morrigan, replacing the bat wings on her head with horns, adding an imp tail, and playing with colors. Albedo's unique difference is that the usual bat wings are replaced with feathered wings.
>>291276112Morrigan doesn't really look much different than the classic DnD succubus but with actual clothes and bat wings instead of horns.
>>291276189Wouldn't be surprising to me, like how the slime in Dragon Quest was inspired by slime monsters in the original Wizardry, though obviously redesigned with different artistic sensibilities.
>>291276261Well there are only so many ways you can spin a motif.Point being I'm not really convinced that Shalltear was inspired from Blazblue, but I could be wrong. I just feel like they would have referenced it somewhere. Overlord references a lot of other stuff like Kamen Rider and even shit like Fire Emblem so I think something would have been snuck in if this was true.Then again I don't really know anything about Blazblue other than I hate it and I have 96 hours in it only because someone I knew loved arc sys fighters, so I would have missed any references anyway.
>>291274031A lot of the supreme beings look cool as fuckIt's a shame that games that let you play as cool looking weird races are so rare
>>291276676>personal chaacter>pure autistBut I do agree, I think ultimately it boils down to how much of a pain in the backside it would be to rig up weapon and other gear sets with races with four arms or sentient crystal spiders etc.
>>291276720True. But even in games where there aren't a massive amount of graphics it's rare. You know, games like Dwarf Fortress or Tales of Maj'Eyal (though ToME does have decent selection all things considered, but the class list and unlock requirements are kind of gay if you just want to do a build but can't)I can't play tabletop games regularly enough to make all the character concepts I come up with. Maybe I should write some fantasy myself, but I feel like the western /lit/ scene is dead apart from women reading smut so it's hard to get motivation for something like that
>>291233443cant lose face in front of demiurge frfr
>>291273880>It's not like Raul where the villains are irredeemable shitbags>HE DOESNT KNOW THAT vicky has been redeemedRORMAO!
>>291253695>he doesnt know about the cuck ginecologistrofl
>>291268896I already said years ago that these retards lacked media literacy before that term became a retarded meme
demiurge design reminds me of gojou masaru
I think I got it.An underlying theme of Overlord is about the soul. A man living a husk of a life fell into the complete opposite extreme of circumstances to become an otherwise unfeeling, all powerful god. But his principles, his cherished friendships, his love for his new found family and his virtue in treating others more deserving than he ever was treated is what retains the soul, the man. This is his adventure, his conquest, his struggle, his story of protecting what he holds dear and share the love and justice to all with some laughs here and a genocide there for giggles.The average soulless isekai consumer just cannot fathom such concepts, such a narrative, such ideals so far removed from self satisfaction typical of their favorite genre that has entrapped this pariah of a literary piece by association, even though it's one of the few that can actually justify the story taking place in another world.
>>291246137>Rimuru never feels truly untouchableLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>291276676One of the more unrealistic parts of Overlord is the idea that people playing as these characters would somehow get "persecuted" by other players. That's how you know Maruyama never actually played MMORPGs himself. It should be the opposite - people who play demonic races always do it for shits and giggles and only take PvP seriously, while humans and elves are the most serious RPers, often becoming targets of memelord undead rouges on PvP servers.
>>291278228Nah, it's just not written all that well.When I first started watching Overlord, you know what I expected? Dungeon Keeper. It was a PC strategy game from the late 90s where you played as an evil dungeon keeper, and your job was to recruit various monsters and build up your lair, fighting off heroes and rival keepers. It was a really neat management game, but the coolest thing about it was the humor. It was a very dark satire of the fantasy genre, not the dark fantasy kind we see these days (what Overlord is), but a comedy that pokes fun at the usual themes of good and evil. The places you invade are all comically saccharine; the narrator loves poking fun at both your failures and victories; the heroes are all pompous lawful good idiots, etc. You completely embrace your role of an unabashed asshole and have lots of fun doing so. The game doesn't take itself seriously; it knows why you're here and delivers on the fantasy as much as it can.Funnily enough, Dungeon Keeper would later go on to inspire another game with a similar setup (but gameplay more inspired by Pikmin), called Overlord.That's what I wish this series was about. Japan right now is drowning in high fantasy, but the only series that successfully parodied it was Konosuba. I would love to see a satirical comedy about a demon lord who actually just really enjoys being evil as he dismantles the trite cliché bullshit of typical isekai slop. Exactly like Konosuba, but told from a more sardonic, villainous perspective. And Overlord even delivered on that at first, until it decided to start taking itself super-duper-seriously.
>>291279631>Dungeon Keeper would later go on to inspire another game with a similar setup (but gameplay more inspired by Pikmin), called OverlordI did not care for overlord
>>291279861Eh, it was alright. It felt a lot like Fable, as far as I remember.
The most retarded aspect of this show is that when he was a player he basically had Albedo for eye-candy, but for some reason when getting isekaid he suddenly becomes in an homosexual man that wont allow himself to see Albedo with a lewd eye? He's literally a total different person since episode 1
>>291233074The only thing wrong with that series is the crossdressing faggotry inserted for no reason whatsoever.>draw girl>it's a boy actuallyeven the author admits that nobody wants that shit or else he would have drawn a boy in girl's clothes with a male voice actor
>>291280042Anon he,s a skeleton with no penis
As long as Albedo stays crazy and hot, all is right
>>291259996Having Demiurge discover his bitchass-ness is my choice
>>291268264I enjoyed Slime at first. MOSTLY because I had this preexisting idea of a "slime Dr Manhattan with an AI wife". The early nationbuilding was nice and comfy. But by this latest season I'm just kind of tired of this show. Apparently the Empire Arc to come sucks bad so I'm just inclined to drop it here.Mostly I'm just fucking tired of Raphael and how Rimuru has no interesting conversations with her like I expected would eventually happen. Nope shes just his win button forever.Also I'm tired of hearing THAT one song come on for the billionth time. I don't know what it is about Slime but I consider it's OST really repetitive.Ciel interests me a little though so I'll probably end up watching slime to the end being pic related the whole time.
forgot pic
>>291277910I think he's based on Stirner
>>291233074I like Ainz because he's a gigantic spooky skeleton. And it's not just a cosmetic thing, his entire personality is warped by that fact, that alone makes him more amusing than most Isekai MCs.
>>291278228Close, it's actually about how the modern world sucks your soul and turns you into a husk, desperately grasping onto whatever, trying to cling onto whatever you think as happiness for whatever fleeting moment, not even thinking as other people as alive, just a bunch of nameless NPCs to be used up for own benefit, and even those closest to you are still NPCs just NPCs you're more attached to at the end of the day, and in corpotate culture are all but made to kiss your ass no matter what you do or how do you do it>>291279631This too. Overlord tends to waffle around too much with its own worldbuilding and characters to the point where it barely does anything with them. This is a problem with a lot of isekai, but all the more here when it's all but begging for the author to do something with them
>>291279861I thought it was alright but it just wasn't quite evil enough. Just a bit half-hearted.
>>291243412>>Is it a show about a normal guy descending into evil?>No.>>An outsider in a cruel world who fights for change?>Partially, but it isn't the main focus.>>The amorality of life?>No.The show is definitely about this too. Ainz goes from larping to becoming the evil undead he was portraying in the game. He is also trying to change the world for the better. It's ultimately a power fantasy anime about being evil and that's imo its biggest appeal, besides the large varieties of waifus. Somehow pretty much most of these self insert power fantasies are always some hero saving the day, Overlord stands out as the one the chose the dark path, it's refreshing
>>291279631>Dungeon Keeper would later go on to inspire another game with a similar setup (but gameplay more inspired by Pikmin), called Overlord.There's also Dungeons series and War for the Overworld which I'd say are rather decent spiritual successors.
>>291236565Damn, that was a great idea, Albedo is a great addition
>>291236238
>>291245532this nigga is like level 70 with a shitty build. He's cannon fodder
>>291246137>>Overlord's problem: Ainz comes into the new world, and the stakes of the first arc are established as such - there are people capable of mind-raping Shalltear, his strongest guardian, and he couldn't do anything about it. This means there are powers in this world as strong as he is, and he needs to be prepared. Problem: this entire plotline is discarded and never brought up again.It literally isn't tho. It's exactly why they go about conquering the world little by little, why they plan so much, why Ainz always has back-up plans for his fights etc. If they didn't discover immediately they aren't untouchable, they would have probably just wage war on the whole world>Overlord's problem: Ainz's morality is incredibly fickle and vague, he can be both human and monstrous depending on the plotline.That's intentional. He's a human trapped in an undead body. The story definitely has an element of Ainz devolving into what his avatar represents while he tries to hang on to his humanity. His desire to find his guild friends in this world is exactly that, his desperate attempt to keep his humanity. I think when he discovers he's alone he'll truly embrace what he has become
I am curious, has anyone ever listened to the Overlord audiobooks?And how bad are they?
>>291236238I'd say he counts. He was an absolute menace in the earlier games, and later just became a chill rapeman.
>>291281553>It literally isn't tho. It's exactly why they go about conquering the world little by little, why they plan so much, why Ainz always has back-up plans for his fights etc.Yeah, call me when one of the guardians actually gets poked by any of the new world characters at any point, even once. Any vulnerability they had ended with Act 1.>That's intentional. He's a human trapped in an undead bodyIntentional or not, it's annoying. He doesn't have a consistent moral compass like Rimuru, so his actions come off as questionable at best and random at worst. If Maruyama wanted to make a villain protagonist who actually acts like an evil monster, he should've done that. Or he should've done a human in a monster's body who now needs to readjust. But doing something in between just reeks of indecisiveness and makes Ainz less fun.
>inherit the creation of your bros>everything treats it as if your friends never existed at all>cope with the existential guilt of being given all the creditdam dats deep
>>291281967>Yeah, call me when one of the guardians actually gets poked by any of the new world characters at any point, even once.Ok, that bothers you but I don't understand how that's a valid critique about a power fantasy show. That's the shows whole premise: A normal guy becomes a god, has an army of forever loyal gods and lives in an impenetrable fortress. And then conquers the world. >He doesn't have a consistent moral compass like Rimuru, so his actions come off as questionable at best and random at worst.Again, that is intentional. He's some random dude in an extraordinary circumstance that slowly loses his humanity and turns into his avatar. Normal humans usually have very fickle moral compasses, this "perfect hero with perfectly defined moral compass" is not a real thing, no one is like that. I do agree that Maruyama pussies out of delving into these things because he tries to keep as many people reading. But ultimately a lot of these elements you don't like are the things a lot of people like about Overlord. It's about personal taste.For example, I watched Tensei and for the love of god can't figure out why people like it. It's just you average isekai slop, it's boring and like half the characters are downright annoying, starting with the stupid dragon. The one with the spider was more entertaining than Tensei is
>>291281553>>291281967>He doesn't have a consistent moral compass like Rimuru NTA, but I have to interject here because Rimuru doesn't really have a moral compass himself. He follows some moral principles when it's not too much trouble, but he easily discards them when necessary and sometimes in extreme ways, seeing how his human kill count was at 0 for the most part but then he slaughtered nearly 20k all at once. Also when he threatened Michael/Feldway with slaughtering all their believers (which were in the billions) to disable Castle Guard and although Rimuru later monologued about this being a bluff, you can't trust him on that considering his history of lying even to himself in his own internal monologues before. Still his actions have a clear logic behind it and also scale to whatever threat or offense he deals with since Rimuru normally follows the moral principles he set for himself, and he doesn't simply drop them just for fun. Here he goes to extreme because the threat is world-ending in scale so it makes sense. Ainz on the other hand went and wiped out most of an entire kingdom because a retarded noble did something remarkably retarded on his own. Of course Ainz can't just ignore a slight against the nation he created no matter how careless and dumb it might have been, but jumping to all-out extermination of the whole nation is quite extreme, though I guess Ainz and Nazarick are going for world-conquest in the long-term so might as well make use of that excuse that was delivered on a silver platter right away anyway.
>>291274126But Ainz only really reveals a portion of his power level during the battle between the empire and the kingdom, before that nobody was aware on how powerful he and nazarick really arehaving said that I agree that it snowballed out of control once he made the empire his vassal, the fact PDL barely took action so far doesn't make sense, sure he is aware players are dangerous but the second Ainz declared his own kingdom PDL should have gone full scorched earth and moved heaven and earth to build a coalition of kingdoms to get rid of ainz, I can't see how the next 2 volumes can solve it in a satisfying way
>>291282724PDL is just as much of an autist as Ainz is. He's the only dragon lord larping as the protector of the land(the others pretty much just want ot be left alone) and he's almost as meticulous as Ainz about probing the weaknesses of his enemies. That's why he fought Pandora's Actor with his remote armor rather than himself just like Ainz sent PA instead of he himself fighting.
