Volume 68PathChapter 655: Pathhttps://desuarchive.org/a/thread/274143504Previous thread:>>291509110
>>291528584GO SASUKE! KILL SHITBITO!
>>291528592KILL HIIIIIIMMMM!!!!>>291528606>>291528613NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
>>291528606>>291528613>>291528624KEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKyou LITERALLY can't defend this writing
>>291528639>Naruto was so indulged in redeeming Obito that he forgot about MadaraThis fucking retard man.
>>291528665Obito, you aren't even TRYING to make it seem like you didn't do it for Rin at this point.
They literally gain nothing by letting Obito live btw.
>>291528737>iTARDchi along with people that actually helped Naruto
>>291528747Naruto? At least Madara hasn't forgotten the Rinnegan can absorb chakra.
B6W
>>291528737Why does the series ever pretend that Itachi ever helped or assisted Naruto, aside from the absorbing Edo Nagato in his sword?
>Kishimoto made a chapter even worse than the last oneBRAVO
Comfnny thread
>>291528833He sat right on Obito's penis.
This very chapter should example of Kishi's favoritism towards the uchiha than anything Sasuke and Madara did, holy fucking shit.I've never seen an author so insistent on keeping a mass murderer alive for the sake of redemption.
what retcon is worse, Kurama being a friendly pet or Naruto being a special chosen one God reincarnation or the Tailed Beasts existing as 9 entities because Kurama has 9 tails?
Did Naruto said the coolest guy yet?
>>291528934He only says that after Kaguya shows up.
Hinatatroon
Done!
>>291528584BASEDBASEDBASED
>>291528758>>291528765>>291528952>>291528964Arigatou, OP!This chapter SUCKED!
>>291528964Thanks, canon OP!
Everyone in the crowd not running at Obito to lynch him is genuinely unrealistic.
>>291528613I hate that everyone blames Sakura for not destroying the Rinnegan, when the big mistake was committed here
>>291528665What the actual flying fuck is Minato talking about?
A few chapters left for Madara's biggest bullshit feat in the series.
>>291528592
>Everyone please stop this war! I have to find my friend, who declared war on the five nations and achieved Ten Tails Jinchuriki powers, all by myself. Please, let me end this fight, like brothersKISHIMOTTTTTTTTTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY SIDES ARE IN ORBIT NEAR ASHURA
Oh no, Hinata "died" and Naruto went feral. But we already saw Naruto going in tha form against orochimaru. Not impressed
Yeah, this aint as bad as I remember. Rereading it now it doesn't bother me near as much as when it was originally coming out. When I was part of the One Piece dailies I felt the same way about Oden actually too, he was still a shitty character, but he wasn't the absolute worst thing that I thought he was when I was reading Wano as it released. All this Obito stuff is the same, it's not as bad as I remembered or as these threads have been saying.
>>291529111>That formSpeedreader....
What's the name of that thing? I forgor
>>291528573I like Sanbi just being like "Yay! :)"
Curious if he's gonna waste his Saturday too
>>291528606>>291528613>>291528624>Kakashi: Now die, Obito.>Minato: Bad Kakashi! Bad, bad Kakashi! Go to your room and think and what you've done!>Kakashi: ...Can Kakashi please grow up a spine and TALK BACK instead of immediately obeying like the lapdog he is?I seriously for the life of me can't understand why this Kakashi character remained popular even after scenes like this.
>>291528624>you are his friend aaaaa ano hi no yume
>>291529121I didn't mind it that much when I first watched the anime. Obito has deep issues and inconsistencies as a character but this part felt in line withe the story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2B8oLsZNeUposting for watch with /nart/bros
>>291529121The opposite actually, because of hindsight we fucking KNOW that letting Obito live is a bad idea, without Obito there's no one to revive Madara or Black Zetsu would've to sacrifice himself which would prevent Kaguya from being revived.Obito surviving is the worst thing to happen to this arc.
F-fuck... Sakura..!! You're so tight...
>>291528624>I believe that the one who truly understand Obito is you, Kakashi, you were his friendThey were friends for ten minutes at best, Minato.
>>291528584>>291528592Nooo why does everyone want to hurt Obito? He didn't do anything wrong, he was just following his dream.. What a bunch of bullies.
EVERYONE we have to STOP the cycle of hatred PLEASE stop it
The problem is not that they didn't kill Obito. It's a manga after all. The problem is that Minato is spewing straight up bullshit. He has no right to place the burden for Obito on Kakashi or chastise him for trying to kill Obito. Also wtf is he on about with the Rin getting them all together stuff.
>>291528613I want to HOLD Tsunade's massive milkers.
Why didn't Naruto went 6 tails when frogs got killed?
>>291528639I like to think that Sasuke was singing Mah Na Mah Na in his head for the last five chapters in order to ignore all this preachings around him
War saga hate is overblown sure its flawed however there are some good like many characters has roles in the war compared to previous arcs in part 2
>>291528624>Yeah sorry sensei you're right. I promise not to STAB, MAIM, and MURDER Obito the second you release my hand so please let go already, okay?
Minato is strangely calm trying to defend his wife's murderer
>>291529288Ok but first let me wage war on this one village that has wronged mine in the past, THEN we can have peace and stop the cycle of hatred (before the other village can retaliate against mine)
>>291529317Ah yes, the K jobbers using their moves against the mini juubis surely make up for everything else in the war.
>>291528665>Obito: Rin was my sole light and hope>Minato and Kakashi: *genuinely shocked*Why are these men so clueless
>>291529314>...He's gazing lovingly at me again, isn't he?
>>291528613I HATE DAN SO FUCKING MUCH
>>291528592Why did his hair stay white?
>>291529450Jiraiya....
>>291529429They thought it was a simple crush, not his entire obsession.
>>291529068The fact that he easily could have stopped all of this.
fuark that lightbulb minato makes me raugh
>>291528747Did he forgot Madara can absorb chakra?
>>291529238I'm not talking about letting him live right here specifically but the whole turn and conversation with Naruto and everything else up to this point.
That conversation between Kakashi and Obito in the last few pages was pretty ass. It just really lacked substance.>why narutobecause he no fail>why no failbecause I help>why you helpbecause hope or something idk
>>291529317I'd say tenchi bridge and 5k summit are worse because war arc at least has mindless endgame content. It took all my strenght to not drop the anime at tenchi bridge and watching Naruto grovel to A plus those useless samurai and even more useless cloud ninja made me want to vomit
>>291528573>For real>You're right!>Yay!Filler page...
>>291528592>Ugh... Naruto is being too cool again... Alright, time to be the SHONEN ANTIHERO who saves the day by killing the VILLAIN
>>291529623you're clearly an NPC with low media literacy. thanks for lowering the level of discourse on our board.
>>291528606Kakashi killed Rin and he was going to kill Obito as well?? Real role model this guy is...
>>291529607Redeeming Obito is only important because of the problems caused by keeping Obito alive.
>>291529723>Kakashi killer of psychosMy hero...
>>291528665Why is Kakashi straddling him like this... kinda gay
>>291529723That's one thing though I actually liked about him. He is the only one here who still thinks this is a manga about ninjas. Always on the job no emotional bullshit.
>>291529450She was speaking to her top about holding her massive breasts. Not the army.
>>291528592>>291528613Holy fuck this is so stupid.
>>291529168Bee said it's Version 2.
>>291528592You'd think that being the 10 tails jinchuriki would at least heal his face scars or something
>>291528639>>291529314There are so many moments in this arc where I'm left wondering just wtf is Sasuke thanking through all this gay shit. Especially since most of the time he doesn't even get to have any input in regards to what's happening.
>>291528883>>291528896I actually really like this moment. It's rare to see one of the "good guys" say to the villain that they don't know for sure if the villain was wrong.
>>291528665>It's no coincidence that I, who has died, am standing before you two like this. What the fuck are you on about?
>>291528758Are these the footsteps from Sasuke from a while ago? who gives a shit?
>>291530027NIGGA WHO CARES HE DECLARED WAR ON EVERYONE... YOU THINK ABOUT GOOD AND BAD LATER AFTER YOU KILL THE GUY WHO WANTS TO NUKE EARTH
>>291528728Kakashi... You tried to help Obito back when he went to save Rin, too, you fucking retard.
>>291530056FATE preordained this, you illiterate idiot.
>>291529317>like many characters has roles in the warLolLmao
>>291528763He gave Naruto that crow intended to brainwash Sasuke. Naruto somehow didn't find anything wrong with that.I hate Itachi wank holy shit.
>>291528624>we played chakra tug-of-war just noweverybody was just being a little silly
Did everyone just forgot about Neji
>>291530170only Hinata
>>291530015There is little going on behind those black eyes
>>291530066No those are from the scenes where the alliance was running towards Naruto and Tobi.
>>291530015these are RPG character, they take turnsplease understand
I NEED to pamper Tsunade...
>>291529121>>291529607Idk what to tell you, I think you have massive shit taste for tolerating this garbage writing.Obito has been objectively an evil character throughout the whole manga who is impossible to redeem at this point, and no matter how tragic his backstory is and how much Minato blames himself for what happened, him stopping Kakashi from killing him is nothing short of retarded, melodramatic slop. Same with Naruto wanting to forgive and redeem him even after he's already been defeated.Seriously, are you just blinded by nostalgia or something? That's the only explanation I can find for people being stupid enough to defend this trash.
>>291529662Then enlight us on what the dialogue is really covering?
I'm starting to believe all boruto fans are one piece fans larping as boruto fans to keep naruto down
>>291530244I'm a speedreader and also blind it seems, didn't even notice the multiple tracks lol
>>291530427I don't think it's that deep desu
>>291529225Why do people act like the issue with the Obito tnj is that it's ooc for him to become a good guy, and not the fact it's stupid for a villain that has done all the shit he did to change sides in the middle of the arc? You're so disingenuous.
>>291529662Oh yeah, because these shitty daily threads are the pinnacle of discussion on this board...
>>291530238Hinata is the only still carrying about Neji lmao.
>>291529288Ok but let me get my revenge real quick first.
>>291529121What parts about Obito makes you think this isn't the worst thing ever?
>>291530583This is why this guy is not hokage material
>>291528665Rin....sole...
>>291529861kek
>>291530501>it's stupid for a villain that has done all the shit he did to change sides in the middle of the arc?There is a clear dissonance between the Obito as a student, his actions as Tobi and Obito in this arc. The only way I can see this make sense, without changing his character or the events of the story, is with the idea that Obito was always mentally unstable. That should explain his chimpout at Rin's death, all the crap he did for 20 years, his insistence on escaping this reality and his conversion after Naruto's TnJ. Some smart evil hardass who is fully convinced on his purpose, the way Tobi originally appeared to us, would never be convinced by TnJ so you are right in that regard. But such a person wouldn't chimpout over Rin's death or try to execute EOTM either.
>>291528606I'll give props to Kakashi for at least trying to finish the job, it's more than I'd expect from one of the heroes in Naruto
>>291530692Easier. Zetsu took over his body and Obito has been in a coma like state for the past 20 years.
>>291530692Tobi was his mask (get it?), there's a psychological term for this that I can't remember, but it's not inconsistent that he would be a different person as Tobi because he no longer wanted to be Obito
>>291528592>Kakashi was sewing up his wound the entire timeYeah, no way Obito was the 10 tails jinchuriki for more than 15 minutes
>>291530725of course. he's not a fem*le who starts crying when he's about to stab someone as a shinobi. and when they spoil the entire movie plots at the barber shop
Back then, how early did readers figure out Tobi = Obito? I would have probably been clueless until the actual reveal lol
>>291530827Immediately.
>>291530740Heh. That would solve everything at the expense of making Obito wholly irrelevant. Since zetsu is an extension of Madara it would make sense that he larps as Madara.
>>291528698THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU RESISTING?
>Hiashi reminds you of that time when your toddler sister broke your fucking jaw
>>291528613WTF IS GOING ON?
Rin could've sealed Madara
>>291528737Finally a Jiraiya mention.>>291528758Actually cool imagery. Kishimoto did try in these moments. Too bad it's a bit too stupid overall to take all that seriously.
Funnycomfy Saturday
>>291531013Edo Minato Kurama Cape Mode (kek) stops Kakashi from killing the guy who wanted to destroy konoha, kill his wife and son, and forced him to put an evil Kurama inside of his son and be tortured for 15+ years.
>>291530027That's how you should write morality generally if you want to avoid getting preachy.
>>291528698Kakashi, you can get off his dick now... literally.
>>291529623You're not wrong. I don't think it's completely empty and I even like it to some extent but overall this entire philosophical dilemma suffers from Kishimoto refusing to discuss specifics. Generally just a bunch of nice sounding words but not many wise insights.
>>291531099Yeah, thank god this manga isn't preachy whatsoever.
>>291528758Amen, my Lord and Savior.
>>291528737>Naruto has many supportersThe same "supporters" who IN THIS VERY CHAPTER wanted to kill Obito and go against Naruto's wishing.
>>291528718And what about the time between Minato's death and the day Kakashi met Naruto?What was that keep Kakashi from going the same path as Obito?
>>291529121I kind of agree it's not as bad as people claim it is. In fact it's one of the few times Kishimoto actually took his time developing a villain's psychological dilemma. Of course there are issues and some that people can't look past, the first being the INSANE death toll and the second being that Tobi himself acted kind of inconsistently with this faltering image of Obito we have now (obviously, since Tobi had to give off this stone cold Madara villain image). There are decent ideas, but it's not framed in the proper way and it's not explored consistently enough to actually create something truly meaningful.Basically, it's a set of nice concepts but not put in the right way. The anime picks up the slack by adding a lot of interesting imagery and symbolism that'd make you believe Obito is a fucking masterpiece of a character, first and foremost being that one Obito ending.Oh, and the "you have shit taste" anon is still as insufferable as always.
>>291531149I don't think Naruto is *that* preachy. It definitely is sometimes but there are worse offenders. For instance when Naruto begged the Raikage to spare Sasuke's life, the Raikage btfo'd him and he wasn't really all that wrong. There's a LITTLE BIT of back and forth, even if the endgame of morality and muh connections is very clearly defined and pushed by Kishimoto.
>>291529837What are you talking about?The very next page he gives up on killing Obito because of Minato's scolding.
>>291531272Jiraiya's fiction
>>291531073Ah. So you will be wasting your entire Saturday here. That's good to know
I hope we get a what-if anime where orochimaru grooms Naruto instead of Sasuke
I'm really glad the 5 kage came back. They really made a huge difference in this battle.
>>291531335Yep we're trapped here with each other, get comfy
Generally speaking, I think a lot of the complaints about Obito and Naruto in general is people wishing the series was more cynical instead of it taking the optimistic turn it did around Nagato. Most of the complaining I see is just people really, really, treating this as if it's supposed to be a seinen or some dark and edgy, more realistic series instead of the hopeful shonen based around emotions and bonds that it actually is.
>>291528624YOU ARE HIS FRIEND
>>291531276>In fact it's one of the few times Kishimoto actually took his time developing a villain's psychological dilemma.Obito's "dilemma" doesn't go any further than "I'm salty my crush died so I'll force everyone to live in a tree". >Oh, and the "you have shit taste" anon is still as insufferable as always.He's right, though. You're an massive retard for defending anything in regards to Obito's character. Most of your post just says "yea it could've been better if it wasn't handled the way it was".
>>291529935It's not really a scar, it's just how the weird Zetsu shit Madara glued to him looks like
>>291530820>and when they spoil the entire movie plots at the barber shopHeh
>>291531406>You're an massive retardKek. That explains the overreliance on "retard" "moron" "shit taste" and a handful of other words. You were ESL all along. Thank you for signing your posts like that and saving my time.
>>291531386Only (You) and your obsession in the archives are here all day. Sorry no-life faggot.
>>291528737>Why would you help him?>Because he draws others to him. Folks who want to help him. Like Jiraya and Neji>And how are they now?>They're... deadIf you put it that way, maybe Obito's way was not the worse option
>>291531387Not really, I didn't have an issue with Zabuza and Gaara being converted to the good side in part 1. I just think that guys like Nagato and Obito becoming good feels far more forced and contrived. It's like Orochimaru getting tnj'd by Hiruzen in the Chunin Exams or something.
>>291531387I think being hopeful is fine, the issue is that Kishimoto wanted a bloodlusted villain who snapped necks and killed many onscreen (and thousands more offscreen) then had him act differently later.I'll just say it's a lot better than the way Eren was handled. Which is admittedly a very low bar to clear, but Obito does clear it.
>>291531486The hopecore answer would be something like "but the future they helped build is alive" and such. It's... alright. Kakashi's answer is okay-ish, but it's not very insightful either. It lives in an abstract realm where these concepts and notions are discussed rather than the actual events that transpired in (their) reality, which is an insane amount of casualties. Like, 2/3 of your world army being wiped out. Just insane.
>>291528665NOT FOR RIN
https://desuarchive.org/a/thread/282986493/#282986493
>>291530015Sasuke has felt aimless ever since 5KS and even the Danzo fight was meh.
this manga is a fucking joke bro
>>291531462>No argument
>>291531462We don't care about English here
>>291531525>>291531492By the way, a lot of popular movies praised by normalfags handle morality just as bad if not worse. That does not make this good, but it's somehow not bottom of the barrel tier.
>>291531462>saving my time>still bothers to make an entire post seething over one autocorrect error>can't address any of the points I made.Lmao. You're a retard. There, does that make you feel better? You have a low IQ and your opinions are shit. I'm not sure what else you want me (or the other anons making fun of how stupid you are) to call you.
>>291531469You too/
Would be more interesting if Obito kept his insane early shippuden behavior. But that probably felt too One Piece coded.
>so butthurt he brought his phone
>>291531492Well Eren is probably the worst ever, so yeah. What really annoys me though? Normies and shit will eat up Attack on Titan and awful shit like Gear Five Luffy just fine. At least people criticize Naruto and complain about the dumb stuff in it more than people have been for the idiotic final arc of Bleach and how One Piece has been lately.
>>291529121Need I remind you Obito killed millions and helped develop wars all due to his dick not getting wet. To make it even worse it's all getting forgiven
>>291528653>she likely wouldn't have wanted things to end up like this.>likelywhat the fuck. why is psycho rin a canon thing
>>291531585>>291531594>>291531601>all under 1 minuteNow watch him have another mental breakdown and pretend that these posts are all from 1 person, kek.
>>291531677Psycho Rin was always canon.
>>291531671The Uchiha Love is so intense... they can't help it everytime someone has to DIE... they're love goes deep, deeper than any blade, innocent grannies know it best
>>291531575Rin making a cute XD face
>>291531681Called it, lmao: >>291531649
>PLEASE REPLY TO ME AND MY.. FELLOW ANONS
>>291531575>mangastreamI prefer mangapanda
>Called it, lmao
>>291531681We don't care about English grammar. Only our feelings are important.
>>291531777Blessed trips
>The sperg was an ObitofagChecks out
I really should take a powerful nap before our stream. That's going to be exhausting
>>291531831Have a comfy nap
>>291531594>WeIgnoring your other schizophrenic personalities, the few actual remaining posters do value proper English here.
>>291531851We don't care.Cared enough to reply to boost our ego but not caring enough to value your opinion
>>291531875Based
>>291531875Do you even know how to read?
>pathetic>shitty>obssessed>hijack>we
I'm really hoping for a remake to see more of my waifu Tayuya punching shartruto in the face and calling them homos
>Card gameOw ow ow that makes me sleepy owww that's for neckbeards and scalpers yawn... boring... zzzz...
>>291530027>Yes Obito you might've been right about making the nine tails attack Konoha, killing our master and his wife, starting a terrorist organization, hunting down and killing multiple different people from different nations and starting a war that killed thousands of people so you could forcefully enslave everyone in a giant tree and effectively cause the end of the world which would then turn out to be the secret plan of an alien god mommy to tranform everyone into her zombie slavesAre you guys really just that stupid?
>patheticCtrl + f: 1 result>shittyCtrl + f: 3 results >obssessedCtrl + f: 1 resultCtrl + f the correct spelling 'obsessed': 0 results >hijackCtrl + f: 1 result>weToo generic of a wordWhat did he mean by all of this?
Words like retard or shitty are just standard 4chan insults. If you get offended by seeing them over and over again then you're a newfag.
>>291532100Kakashi is not really saying he did everything right, only that he can empathize, that it may not have been wrong to feel that way, that he could have been in Obito's place tooSome of you are too autistic for your own good
>>291531943Based. Honestly I wish there were more art of this, it's kinda hot.
>>291528793He praises him once, I think.
>>291531306He was gonna do it otherwise tho
>>291531227And yet they didn't kill Obito.
>>291532272>that it may not have been wrong to feel that wayNo, he literally says that maybe Obito's path wasn't the wrong one to take. He's not talking about the way he was feeling.
>>291531971the thing is there are already so many naruto card games, and now the new one will have the nu-nishio style and you will get Ratruto artwork on the cards
>>291528584>biju saved>sasuke immediately goes for a 1v6
>Words like retard or shitty are just standard 4chan insults. If you get offended by seeing them over and over again then you're a newfag.
>>291531387I do wish the series was more cynical, edgy and realistic with Naruto's optimism acting as a counterfoil. And I do wish this didn't become a series about bonds and emotions.But that's not the complain most people have. It's mostly about bad character writing and awful pacing.
>>291532353Yeah but his path doesn't require him to do all that shitty shit you mentioned, so understanding the path doesn't mean understanding LITERALLY EVERYTHING he did since Madara
>>291531600>a lot of popular movies praised by normalfags handle morality just as bad if not worse.Such as?
>>291532441Just pick the latest capeshit flick.>>291532412>And I do wish this didn't become a series about bondsI'd disagree with that, that's one of the few aspects I think Kishimoto had the right idea about imo. But yes, Naruto's optimism would ring a lot more true if it actually succeeded instead of bending the world around it.
>Still no Naruto KoFFucking hell man
>>291531387I think the problem is writing a shonen feel-good story with genocide and assassinations in it bro
>>291528924bijuu existing as 9 entities isn't necessarily terrible but the execution in naruto sucks.naruto being a reincarnation is pointless and adds nothing. it only confuses the fans.kurama and the bijuu being tamable is stupid and removes the cost of accessing their powers.
>>291529211part 1 was really good.
a problem with part 2 is the characters' actions don't feel natural or like something they would actually do. it feels like they just do what the plot needs them to.
funnycomfy
>>291532612>it only confuses the fansNot really
>>291532709That's a part 1 thing as well if we're being real. Remember Tsunade sending Shikamaru and whichever genin he could find in 30 minutes to go after Orochimaru's elite agents to retrieve Sasuke (their last Sharingan btw) because the plot needed it?
>>291532748there's a reason we generally say Chunin exams was the peak. there was no convoluted bullshit excuse for things to happen, everyone was competing organically in their ninja element and they had their own objectives
>>291532481>capeshitLow hanging fruit. >I'd disagree with that, that's one of the few aspects I think Kishimoto had the right idea about imo.Yeah no, I 100% disagree with that. For a series that is about "bonds", nearly every single bond between 2 characters is handled horrendously. There's the main one between Naruto and Sasuke, which feels more like Naruto suffering from Stockholm Syndrome and being irrationally in love with Sasuke, while Sasuke has zero reasons to ever give a shit about him. And then there's the fact that the romance in this series is either non-existent (Naruto and Hinata) or offensively terrible (Sasuke and Sakura). You can say that this is a shounen and thus romance isn't really an important aspect of the story, but if you're gonna make one of the main themes be bonds, you should at the the very least make the romance feel logical. Instead, there's almost no couple in the story where both characters have genuine reason to love one another. I'd say that brings down the story a lot because it shows how poorly handled one of its main themes is.
>>291532826>wewho's wethe series sales peaked at pain arc
>>291532826>there was no convoluted bullshit excuse for things to happen?????????>dude let's keep the exam going even though we know foreign operatives have snuck in and are preparing to attack us>okay Naruto let's discuss state secrets in front of the entire world and nobody will stop us (we're supposed to be fighting right now btw)>btw Neji I never told you but your dad actually asked me to die for me, please believe me I just waited like 10 years to tell you>don't forget guys, these exams are basically war between our villages, please be as bloodthirsty as you can - Hiruzen the Peaceful
>>291532875>the series was the best written when it made the most moneywhat
>>291532481>one of the few aspects I think Kishimoto had the right idea aboutHe over did it with all the Sasuke crap. The melodrama wasn't this bad in part 1. More importantly the emotional element worked with the actual story elements instead of existing independently of it, like in shippuden.
>>291532748Hey at least it tried to give a reason for it by saying most jonin are away on other missions due to the state of the village after Orochimaru's attack. I at least appreciate that the Konoha Crush had a significant impact on the story and affected the 2 arcs that came after it. Meanwhile, everyone is alive after the Pain Assault and the village goes back to normal after being turned into a crater after like 1 week. It's really fucking stupid. The only consequence of the Pain Assault was that Danzo went to the summit instead of Tsunade and he ended up getting killed by Sasuke (while barely matters anyway because no one gave a shit about him dying and Root just dissolved by itself).
>>291532875Pain was good and doesn't deserve the amount of "akshually it was bad" it gets nowadays (the Pain fight is still one of the most decent ones in Naruto overall but somehow anons are calling it bad in these threads), but I'd say the chunin exam is still mostly more solid. I like that Naruto had to grieve his master and overcome himself in a lot of ways during the Pain arc, but the chunin exams have the benefit of being early into the story and expanding the world in ways that made young (You) go crazy.
>>291532481>Just pick the latest capeshit flick.You're talking about Spider-man right?Even Jean Gray wasn't as bad as Obito.
I'm a little bit impressed even that Naruto goes from a manga about ninjas doing ninja missions where people actually get maimed and murdered to an emotional story about friendship first and foremost and the cycles of violence or something. It's a bit bizarre how edgy early naruto was in comparison
>>291531943
>>291532894>okay Naruto let's discuss state secrets in front of the entire world and nobody will stop us (we're supposed to be fighting right now btw)>btw Neji I never told you but your dad actually asked me to die for me, please believe me I just waited like 10 years to tell youNTA but this is a story. You are required to have some suspension of disbelief.
I'm thankful to be living on the funnycanon timeline where funnycomfy won
>>291532910best written is subjective. You're literally talking about "we" as if you're the majority
>>291532950It doesn't have to be melodrama. By "connections", I mean this entire thematical/narrative line that ties everything together, where everything is about connections and communication. Even chakra is connection. That's a good concept and sometimes it kinda works (although it often goes haywire).>>291532986Any capeshit. Jean Gray didn't have a kill count on Obito's level but the narrative fellates her 100 times more than Obito.>>291532970>I at least appreciate that the Konoha Crush had a significant impact on the story and affected the 2 arcs that came after itThere's a bit of a connection but it's tenuous and inconsistent. Jiraiya can just fuck off from the village for 1 month while they don't have a leader, just because he went "uurrrm I'm not so good at this, trust me I'm bringing back someone"? Give me a break. Of course I'm not defending post Pain Konoha just resetting after a week.
>>291532990>ninjas doing ninja missions where people actually get maimed and murderedHonestly that was never the case, at least not close to how much people sell it. At best it was slightly close to that during the land of waves arc (the best one arguably) but the moment the chunin exams started it already turned into Harry Potter with a few gorey (yet kids friendly) executions here and there.>>291533003Suspension of disbelief works for other things, not so much for this.
>>291529211>It's ok Inoshikacho I will go with you to fight the S-rank criminals so you can avenge Asuma>It's ok Naruto I'll take you to the Raikage so you can beg him to not kill Sasuke even though I know this will achieve absolutely nothing >It's ok Naruto I won't try to kill Sasuke after he attacked all of the kage and made himself a wanted criminal to all of the 5 great nations, I'll just leave you 2 alone to fight each other>It's ok sensei I won't try to kill Obito anymore just because you scolded mePeople don't talk enough about how hard Shippuden butchered Kakashi's character. Seriously, he has 0 fucking agency.
>>291532894>>dude let's keep the exam going even though we know foreign operatives have snuck in and are preparing to attack usthat was a daily thing in the ninja world. stopping the exams would make them look bad and there's nuance because the Leaf were not "the good guys", they were just following the system and obeying orders. Orochimaru had no connections to Akatsuki at this point>>okay Naruto let's discuss state secrets in front of the entire world and nobody will stop us (we're supposed to be fighting right now btw)this is manga logic that was made to appear longer with flashbacks, the discussion was maybe 20 seconds at best>>btw Neji I never told you but your dad actually asked me to die for me, please believe me I just waited like 10 years to tell youis this really unbelievable? we have real life examples of people taking their lives for honor like Yukio Mishima>>don't forget guys, these exams are basically war between our villages, please be as bloodthirsty as you can - Hiruzen the Peacefulthe Hokage was not seen as a saint at this point in the story. he was literally the strongest guy
>>291530583>no but you see it's ok because he just so conveniently happened to be immortal so I'm not killing anyone haha it's ok now because he's just buried alive forever haha it's cool guys!
>>291532999trips checked
>>291533113>that was a daily thing in the ninja worldNo that wasn't. That was a big unprecedented invasion after a period of relative peace. That was, in fact, a big fucking deal. And they chose not to gear up and keep up the fucking school exams. Because nothing matters more than the fucking school exams when your main character is in school and has to appeal to the kids readership.>this is manga logic that was made to appear longer with flashbacks, the discussion was maybe 20 seconds at best20 seconds or 200 seconds would be the same. If the discussion lasted more than 2 seconds before the referee stabbed Neji in the guts (or at least knocked him out and took him for interrogation and punishment for revealing these things to the world), then your worldbuilding is retarded and makes 0 sense.>is this really unbelievable? we have real life examples of people taking their lives for honor like Yukio MishimaDying for honor is fine. Not telling the kid and letting him hate you for 10 years, then telling him 10 years later and him believing you (despite having no proof whatsoever) is stupid as hell. There's no incentive or reason for any of that. It can be 100% explained by one thing, Kishimoto required drama. So he wrote it. And then he wanted catharsis, so he pulled it out of his ass. There.>the Hokage was not seen as a saint at this point in the storyHe was supposed to be. Hiruzen was never acknowledged for the crazy idiot he was and him inviting more conflict between these bordering villages instead of cooperation and peaceful exams served no purpose whatsoever. It existed for one reason: projecting the idea of worldbuilding. Kishimoto threw concepts around, without thinking about them.
>>291533045>this entire thematical/narrative line that ties everything together, where everything is about connections and communicationYeah no. Even the hardwork bullcrap sounds better imo. And the execution is terrible. I gagged everytime a character tied his pinkie with another character for a promise.
>>291533113bodied that freak
>>291528793Kishi is hoping that we can't remember anything Itachi actually did and just trust that he's the coolest guy.
>>291533242>No that wasn't. That was a big unprecedented invasion after a period of relative peaceat the same time it was the first time since how long from when you had the Jinchuriki of the Nine Tails and the last Uchiha participating? you make it seem like Orochimaru didn't specifically came there to get Sasuke.>If the discussion lasted more than 2 seconds before the referee stabbed Neji in the guts (or at least knocked him out and took him for interrogation and punishment for revealing these things to the world), then your worldbuilding is retarded and makes 0 sense.dude this is like saying why Jackie Chan starts fighting when he could shoot people with a gun. this is the genre. why do we see Goku moving when he's faster than a car? really stupid argument>Not telling the kid and letting him hate you for 10 years, then telling him 10 years later and him believing you (despite having no proof whatsoever) is stupid as hellso you idea is to tell him that actually he wanted to die and maybe the 12 year old understands everything about the situation?>>the Hokage was not seen as a saint at this point in the story>He was supposed to be.nope. he was the wise man putting people in danger to learn from their own mistakes
that's it, im moving to the other thread
>>291533530>it was the first time since how long from when you had the Jinchuriki of the Nine Tails and the last Uchiha participatingActually nobody gave a shit about Naruto. He was the underdog nobody bet on, and people only started caring when he beat Neji against all odds. So no, all your arguments for "we should keep this school exam going despite A FOREIGN NATION TRYING TO INVADE US AND HAVING SNUCK INTO OUR BORDERS INTERFERING WITH SAID SCHOOL EXAM" is "well, they had an Uchiha in the school exam :)" which is so juvenile and stupid I can only laugh at it.>dude this is like saying why Jackie Chan starts fighting when he could shoot people with a gun. this is the genre. why do we see Goku moving when he's faster than a car? really stupid argumentThat has nothing to do with what I said. You haven't addressed ANYTHING. The fact Neji can reveal state secrets in front of everyone and not only he's not stopped but he also never gets punished for it is proof this worldbuilding is pants on heads retarded. You haven't earned any more of my time after such a braindead reply, I'm out.
You two have the dumbest conversations
>>291521030>>29152103058 minutes
>>291533620>all your arguments for "we should keep this school exam going despite A FOREIGN NATION TRYING TO INVADE US AND HAVING SNUCK INTO OUR BORDERS INTERFERING WITH SAID SCHOOL EXAM" is "well, they had an Uchiha in the school exam :)" which is so juvenile and stupid I can only laugh at it.I said that it was expected to be a big fucking deal before starting the exams (because Naruto and Sasuke were participants). so them cancelling the exams because someone infiltrated doesn't make much sense. The exams literally stop when it's revealed that Orochiimaru was controlling two villages and attacked>The fact Neji can reveal state secrets in front of everyone and not only he's not stopped but he also never gets punished for it is proof this worldbuilding is pants on heads retarded. You haven't earned any more of my time after such a braindead reply, I'm out.where do you even get this "state secret" shit from?
>>291528924Yes
>>291531677lmao
>>291532875Pain was shit.
The "psycho rin" nonsense is one of the more forced things in this daily, i must say.
>>291533530>dude this is like saying why Jackie Chan starts fighting when he could shoot people with a gun. this is the genre. why do we see Goku moving when he's faster than a car? really stupid argumentThis is the biggest false equivalence I've seen on this board.There were so many better ways to reveal Neji's story to Naruto than him fucking spelling it out to him infront of an entire stadium (that somehow could hear him).
>>291532748she says all the jonin were already on different missions, doesn't she?
>>291533886>where do you even get this "state secret" shit from?Absolutely everyone in the crowd looked surprised when Neji was spouting that shit.
>>291532894>let's keep the exam going even though we know foreign operatives have snuck in and are preparing to attack usorochimaru threatened the leaf to keep the exams going
I've always quoted the affair with 4th mizukage and Gaara's dad to be examples of ways in which shippuden sanitised the setting by-declawing it. But there's another, albeit smaller one. The leaf attack on Nagato's home. Which lead him to develop resentment towards Konoha, that ultimately culminated into him wiping it out. Another writer who was going for a cynical realism take would've potrayed leaf shinobi as just soldiers doing their jobs or actual bad guys. Which would've made Pain's resentment and his personal philosophy regarding pain feel more legitimate. But no, this is Kishi, so leaf cannot be potrayed in a bad light whatsoever. And so Nagato's parent's death becomes an accidental result of a misunderstanding. Which makes Pain's whole schtick feel less earned since even though he is responding to the horrors of war, his own personal experience of it was actually unintended.
>>291532975tbf the anime brings the pain fight down a lot.and the story does feel weaker overall with the introduction of "the child of prophecy," the copout revival emding, and pain's tnj.
>>291534244What was he going to do differently if they didn't keep the exams going?
>>291534182dude we don't need a convoluted plan for the audience to hear something like a character telling the protagonist his drama during a fight. it's literally like finding a way for Jackie Chan to always explain why he's fighting this fight and not picking up a gun and why the people shooting at him are always missing. What Neji said was not even the real story
>>291534301the leaf didn't know anything about his plans, but at least keeping things going would give them more time to figure things out.
>>291533886>so them cancelling the exams because someone infiltrated doesn't make much sense.Said someone was literally one of the sannin who already marked Sasuke, Konoha's last publicly known sharingan, as his property.
>>291534325it's for drama though. characters have to explain themselves to some extent so they can have thematic fights. naruto's fights tend to be thematic so they have to have characters arguing.but i do agree it's at the expanse of the dialogue feeling natural.and i seriously don't think neji gave a shit he was spilling state secrets. why would he if he hated the main branch?
>>291534370you are going into the Sasuke Rescue Arc which proves me right. what comes after contradicts what we know in chunin exams and how Kakashi/Anko act
>>291534325Jackie Chan not picking a gun is for entertainment, how and where Neji tells his story to Naruto doesn't do anything to how we enjoy the manga.
>>291534265>Another writer who was going for a cynical realism take would've potrayed leaf shinobi as just soldiers doing their jobs or actual bad guys. Which would've made Pain's resentment and his personal philosophy regarding pain feel more legitimate.that's the kind of thing kishi wrote for part 1 though. look at land of waves.
>>291534349Did it really take a whole fucking month for anyone to figure out that leaf hating Orochimaru would want to invade the leaf?
>>291534424you think Naruto hearing his story from someone else doesn't change how you experience the fight?
>>291534415No, i'm using what has already been known in the story so far.Orochimaru has infiltrated the leaf, killed people AND has marked Sasuke who he clearly wants to kidnap and body snatch, cancelling the exams would be the better option.
>>291534468Naruto hearing Neji's story from Hinata would actually have improved the fight.
>>291534461they only knew that he marked and was after sasuke.and again, keeping things going at least gives them time instead of being met with an instant retaliation by orochimaru.
>>291534514why?
>>291534557I'm saying it's stupid of them to think Orochimaru wouldn't clearly escalate things up.
>>291534514this would definitely make Neji insta-kill narutard when he hears about this, before he has the time to summon beast chakra>>291534490Kakashi was actively guarding him and used a seal on his mark, and there's a scene where Oro talks to Kakashi and wants to Chidori his ass. Then he trains him as his student and is always guarding him
>>291534590Because not only do you add more scenes of Naruto and Hinata interacting/caring for one another, but you also remove all the nonsense of everyone in the stadium being able to hear Neji talking.
>>291534629>this would definitely make Neji insta-kill narutard when he hears about thisWhy the fuck would he? He had no issue telling it to Naruto himself.>Kakashi was actively guarding him and used a seal on his markKakashi can't do shit to Orochimaru at this point in the story.
Wishing Tayuya would pee in my mouth.
>>291534628he's going to do something either way.one way makes it instant. the other way gives them time.yes, this is my one retort, but i do think it makes sense.>>291534660>everyone in the stadium being able to hear Neji talking.that is stupid though. everyone has insane hearing capabilities.>>291534703pretty sure they had anko after him too.
>>291534703>Why the fuck would he? He had no issue telling it to Naruto himself.he told Naruto because he chose to, when he was ready. why would Hinata give information about him to a stranger?
>>291534848Idk, the story was about her getting kidnapped, I think she'd have the right to talk about it.
>>291534812>that is stupid though. everyone has insane hearing capabilities.This is only established in this arc.>one way makes it instant. the other way gives them time.Orochimaru wouldn't have everyone ready for an invasion at moment to make it instantly, they'd probably have less casualties by not bending the knee to Orochimaru.>pretty sure they had anko after him too.Someone who can do even less to Orochimaru than Kakashi?
>>291534936>Yeah Naruto let me explain, so Neji's dad>Who the fuck are you?>It's me Hinata, the weirdo >anyway where's Sasuke
>>291533079I agree BUT it only started in the chuunin exams tournament. The forest of death was still pretty edgy and for the most part it wasn't until the middle of the post time-skip saga that Naruto went full friendship is magic with little edge. It was HP with gore, but there was still edge to the story and themes until later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2B8oLsZNeUit's happening btw 4 episodes
