Not really. I'm still firmly on Marley's side. Yeah they're cartoonishly evil fascists, but at least they were upfront about it and had a reason. The Yaegerists just wanted to kill everyone on Earth, even allies for survival which would inevitably lead to civil war once they were all that's left.

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>>292165613
I only recently watched AoT for the first time without knowing anything about it. I had a less of a problem with the finale than with season 4 as a whole.

It had brilliant moments mixed in with some of the weirdest ass pulls I've seen in a story. Time travel should be banned as a plot device. Eren's motivations and circumstances in the end is a case of throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. People can make the case for anything, so long as they block out other inconvenient stuff he said.

Since I didn't follow any of this as it was debuting, I have no idea why Historia was obsessed with by the community. May she live happily ever after with Farmer Joe. Sasha was best girl. Annie could have been handled better but her 'redemption' was fine. Mikasa should have married Jean and forgot about Eren immediately after his death, as he deserved.

>>292165613
No.
I can't fucking move on.
Mostly because I have a rather unique take in that I don't consider anything past 105 to be canon. Liberio was the last actual arc.
But niggers, even those who noticed the downgrade in the story, only seem to realize it after the rumbling starts.

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>>292165613
never

>>292166228
Doesn't look authentic without the sloshed head

>>292166141
>I only recently watched AoT for the first time without knowing anything about it
That's pretty cool. It's interesting to note that you had issues with Season 4 as a whole, which makes sense to me as I'm this fag >>292166191
But I don't have a single complaint about Liberio. Up to Sasha's death it was great, and everything bad about S1~Liberio is mostly due to retcons or the story getting fucked up so bad that it retroactively fucks up things that came before too.
I'm of the mind Isayama wanted to write a huge saga, delving and exploring every crevice of the plot with the same care he put in the first three seasons, but something forced his hand or he got fed up with it and the manga got effectively axed. The ending we got was like those rushed endings axed manga get but it still convinced loads of people it was good because it road the coattails of what came before.

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>>292166291
Yeah, I mostly agree. My best guess is that the author wanted the story to go full dark/miserable for the entirety of the final season and hammer home the 'human nature is tribal to a never ending fault' theme.

But he turned back on it midway and decided to try to lighten things up considerably by the end. But then the story has to take some bizarre and unsatisfying turns to get there.

Basically, he knew where he wanted to go, wrote half the story, and then wanted to u-turn but squaring the story away meant pulling a rabbit out of a hat and some of the audience can sense the shift.

So I guess I could take it two ways. Either the finale was the problem because it clashed with the rest of the season or the whole season was the issue and the finale is just a byproduct of the lack of cohesion.

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>>292166141
>>292166291
Do you think Eren's characterization as someone with an inned desire to do harm landed well now that everything is over? I kinda think that by the beggining of Return to Shiganshinna arc Eren evolved as a character that is above that kind of things, but the plot needs his persona to stay in that mindset for the rumbling to happen.

Historia getting a boyfriend, getting pregnant by him, and then having a kid should've never been a background event

>>292165613
I'm not a fucking delusional, mentally retarded piece of shit redditor so I didn't get mad when your baseless head canon never happened

Eren was a shit character from the very beginning, an obnoxiously loud, incomprehensibly stupid incompetent moron, he looked and acted like a special needs child, did people serious self insert as him?

>>292166527
I wouldn't exactly call those retards people

>>292166444
No. Eren's character felt unsatisfying to me no matter how I try to look at it because there were too many reasons and factors given for his actions.
>he did it because he was born to fight
>he was being messed with mentally by prior titans
>he's just an idiot, according to himself
>he just wanted to protect his friends even though many of them are dead, like Sasha and Hange and the rest of the scouts
>he couldn't change his fate no matter what he tried
>he wanted everyone else to be heroes but didn't stop Ymir from trying to kill them
>if it was all predestined then he did nothing anyway so why offer explanations?
>only Ymir knows

I also thought that Eren, Arman, and Mikasa were the return to optimism that prior seasons had. So Season 4 felt like a total tonal shift until the end when it couldn't recapture the prior seasons' tone due to what was written already, but tried anyway.

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>>292166515
Did you like it? What do you think isn't bad about it? Asking earnestly, I don't want to fight but have some discussiom since the usual comments are from people that didn't like the ending.

>>292166527
>asking for a decent ending that doesn't shit on the MC
>you must be le self insert
You are just as reactionary retard

>>292165613
I didn't watch the finale, just saw the shitstorm reaction and memes, so i didn't miss much, another Game of Thrones S8. the story ended at the ocean for me

>>292166610
No I didn't like it, I thought it was pathetically rushed. I thought the whole cringevenger shit was embarrassing

I just wasn't upset that it wasn't a good ending even though I poured years being a fan of the series

>>292166601
Yeah, to add to this the return of Linked Horizon to make the final opening of the anime felt kinda out of place after everything.
Like, the song is fine and their other songs about SnK are great, but the mood in the final season was different as the ones from pre-timeskip

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>>292166671
Well, we can't really argue that the ending wasn't directing to what we ended up getting, wince if Eren was serious about rumbling 100% of the world beyond Paradis he would have used the founding titan powers to restrain his friends in the island and the author would hvaae ended the manga in like 3 or 4 chapters after the rumbling begins.

>>292165613
No

Isayama had many paths and options but choose the worst ones imaginable

>>292166443
>wanted the story to go full dark/miserable for the entirety of the final season and hammer home the 'human nature is tribal to a never ending fault' theme
More or less. I think he wanted to tell a story about humanity's eternal struggle with itself, yes, but that was secondary to humanity's eternal struggle with meaning. Kenny's arc in the manga (go read it, the anime skips like a full season from the manga between S2 and 3) explains this very well.
>he knew where he wanted to go, wrote half the story, and then wanted to u-turn but squaring the story away meant pulling a rabbit out of a hat
This, paired with his utterly demoralized state when the ending first came out assure me that I'm right. The manga got effectively axed.
It makes no sense that he devoted 80+ chapters of setup only for the final arc, filled to the brim with storylines that got shafted (remember the Tyburs? lmao) and badly explained things (why doesn't the partial rumbling solve everything?), to finish the story in essentially 30 chapters.

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>>292166444
>Eren's characterization as someone with an inned desire to do harm landed well now that everything is over?
He was never about that at all.
>I kinda think that by the beggining of Return to Shiganshinna arc Eren evolved as a character that is above that kind of things
Yes, you're correct. If you read it disregarding what cames later, you will see a very strong, continuous line of character development between S1 Eren, all the way to Liberio. Eren started out as a hero already, someone with a strong sense of justice and a strong desire to enforce his will on the world. He then underwent a number of tragic character arcs that effectively torn down the traits he possessed before (for instance, trusting his friends in the forest; he already possessed within him the desire to trust others and be reasonable, but this got them all killed instead). His character was inevitably walking towards a state of cold, genocidal apathy. You can see a clear parallel between Bertholdt in Return to Shiganshina and hobo Eren, down to people commenting he didn't feel like the same person. Just like how Bert was being genuine about being friends with them, but had passively accepted the cruelty of the world and then became fully intent in fighting to the bitter end for his side, Eren does the same in Liberio. He genuinely understands and likes Reiner, but pushes himself forward to the bitter end.
All this is subverted, or rather, directly thrown into the trash as soon as Liberio ends and he shaves the beard lol

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I will always love SnK

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>>292166444
>Eren's characterization as someone with an inned desire to do harm
picrel has been effectively retconned from a great moment of emotional maturity into eren just being a liar now kek

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>>292166908
Also I find it such a shame this VERY important scene got distorted in the anime. The anime makes it seem like Eren had a one-sided crush on Annie that made him hesitate when he realized she was the female titan, but in the manga it's just him clearly facing the shock of betrayal for the first time in his life
He then quickly goes through every stage of grief and mans up, transforming into the attack titan after acknowledging that the world is a cruel place, full of cruel people like Annie. This is traded for a screaming scene where he has to be pierced by a log of wood before he decides to transform in the anime lol
The parallel I made between him and Bert becomes very clear in this sequence

>>292165613
i moved on long before the finale so it was pure entertainment. comedy that can never be recreated watching it unfold each month

still gave me a love of big nosed bitches tho

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>>292167111
What bothers me about this, on top of what you said, is that they went on to have Eren yell YOU TRAITORS at Reiner during S2. It would have had more impact had they kept this original moment of betrayal in.
Annie did nothing wrong.

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>>292167209
Yeah, but they wanted a big shounen finale for S1.
It's worth noting, but before yams nuked his character, Eren was becoming a composite of the trio that invaded Paradis. He has many parallels with each of them. Like Annie, he becomes egoistic, hypocritical and cruel. Like Bertholdt, he becomes sociopathic and detached, cleanly separating between his personal feelings and the mission he's in (a trait of Bert which is very deliberately contrasted with Reiner). Like Reiner, he sees something above the hell and keeps pushing forward in an ever-escalating manner.
Considering that we got to see his perspective for most of the story, the way Isayama alienates the viewer from Eren when he kisses Historia's hand, and then immediately switches the story to have a different viewpoint was brilliant. It allows you to get a first look on who he was becoming as a person in a more objective manner. If you watch people reacting to Shingeki, you'll notice Liberio is when they start to get these weird conflicted feelings about the story that only get solved once Isayama derails the character into a cheap edgy manchild. He was going to deliver the strongest villain protagonist in manga history if it kept the quality imo

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>>292166908
Fair points, but what do you mean on all that being thrown to the trash after Liberio? What comes after chapter 105 sort of makes sense internally for the story, or am i missing something?
pic unrelated, I only wanted to post some SnK related image with the post, kek

>>292167338
>If you watch people reacting to Shingeki,
No, thank you. That's the purest unfiltered slop someone could possibly consume.

>>292166753
>badly explained things (why doesn't the partial rumbling solve everything?)
One thing that bothered me at the end was the parallels to WW2 and european history being overt but a historical constant of war between nations is defeating the other's military and then forcing a treaty to end the aggression, at least for a while.

So the choice between Eren (genocide) and Zeke (suicide) felt odd with the total lack of a middle ground. Just rumble their bases, force a treaty, and keep your wall titans on the shores like Easter Island statues as a threat.

Not saying the story sucks because it didn't give this position a strong advocacy but it did feel like the drama had an easier way out and so it just couldn't be allowed.

>>292166141
>Mikasa should have married Jean and forgot about Eren immediately after his death, as he deserved
that's exactly what happened. Horsey boy even brought the kids to his grave

>>292167421
She kept going back to the grave til she died. It's like she was cucking two guys at the same time. She should have chosen one. Live out her final years with unrequited love or move on and be with Jean (who is a decent guy).

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>>292167421
this

>Isayama didn't have the balls to confirm JM
Poor shippers and their cope

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>>292167354
Loads of things, way before the Rumbling. I wrote some of it in these two >>292167111 >>292167338, but there's a lot more.
I think the character design speaks a lot and serves as a microcosm. The point of a character design is that it sells who the character is before you get to know him. Isayama knows this, his character designs are great despite his mediocre art skills. Now, hobo Eren may look a lot older, but his design, his facial expressions and all are very much in line with who he was at the end of S3. He pretty much just grew his hair and a goatee. Contrast this with his design and attitude from 106 onwards. Can you imagine hobo Eren screaming as he grabs Hange by the collar like a petulant child? lmao. Isayama deliberately shaves his face and makes him tie his hair short, and draws his face younger like S1~S2 Eren, which is what he becomes as a character. Picrel attests to what I've said.
This is also where we first get an insight into what happened in the timeskip, and it starts to crumble the writing for several other characters too.

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>>292167512
Have you seen this post? Link has the full version. Do you agree with it?
https://web.archive.org/web/20211024180225/https://survey-corps-potato.tumblr.com/post/647987861034008576/armin

>>292167368
It's fun sometimes, particularly to understand the effect that story has on people but I won't deny that it's slop lol
>>292167401
>the choice between Eren (genocide) and Zeke (suicide) felt odd with the total lack of a middle ground
Yes, you're absolutely right. Like I said, I believe the story got (effectively) axed. I believe he wanted to make it so genocide and suicide were the only effective choices, at least within Eren's time, but for that to work he would have to exhaust every other possibility, which he didn't do. If you tie in a bunch of irrelevant plotlines that went nowhere, this becomes even more evident. For instance, the massive resources, particularly the crystals that they use in the 3DM gear, lying beneath Paradis which were hinted to be fundamental for the next technological revolution. This is canned and goes nowhere, it just serves to paint the in-world nips in a bad light.
>>292167598
Nope, I'll read it
But just by the first two paragraphs I can tell that whoever wrote this just gets it. People talk a lot about Eren, but I think Armin was raped way more ruthlessly by the final stretch of the story than anyone else. Yet another point for Liberio being the last real arc, as it's the last time we see Armin using his brain rather than being a reactive cookie cutter hero

>>292167598
NTA but I love that post. I hate Armin, but this post dunks on him in ways that only an Arminfag could muster.

>>292167481
>She should have chosen one
that's the whole ending, isayama hesitated and tried to sort of have it both ways until it was too late instead of committing early. understandable but fatal mistake

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>>292167618
Just my opinion, but it seemed like they should have gone with Zeke wanting the rumbling of the rest of the world and Eren/Armin/Mikasa coming up with the middle ground of rumbling just the bases and then trading with foreign nations via the special resources the island has.

Zeke, in particular, feels like a totally different character in season 4 than he did prior. Also, I could have sworn he was going to be Erwin's dad from the flashbacks he had.

Also, my memory may be fuzzy, but what was up with that flower they called attention to when Eren turned into a titan to protect Mikasa and Armin from cannon fire so early in the anime? Felt like that was supposed to be a clue that the titans were going to be an environmentalism type allegory.

>>292167598
Goddamn this is on the money. What a great character breakdown, I should write one of these for Eren.
Something worth noting is that Liberio works particularly well because we *don't know* what went in the background. We don't know what happened in the four years the story skipped. All we know is that Eren effectively managed to run away from Paradis, infiltrate the Marleyan army, and ultimately outsmarted his friends by abusing a cruel loophole in their relationship. Several arcs are centered around Eren being a huge enough resource for Paradis that they threw countless lives away to save him, so Eren knew they would come if he turned himself into a hostage. This does not make any other character look stupider, it just makes Eren look vile and heartless. This contradicts the whole gay "muh frends" thing that Isayama tries to make up later btw. He effectively sacrificed the lives of the survey corps, including his closest friends (like Sasha, but could have been anyone else) just for his plan to work. But as the story unfolds, and you get more insight into what happened in the timeskip, what happened in Liberio retroactively makes everyone else look stupider and stupider, particularly Armin lol
>>292167627
The opposite of love is apathy, hatred is complementary after all

Remember when eren did the rumbling to defend his unborn child by historia?

Yeah me neither

>>292165613
isayama succeeded in making his ending so trash that we never forget it in a way, wonder if it would still be talked about if he never did that cuck ending

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>>292167754
>Zeke wanting the rumbling
Sorry g, but that was never going to happen. Zeke is a complete psycho, an utter lunatic. There's traces that Isayama retconned his character too (see him breaking the boulder on his hand as he's killing the survey corps), but that's a bit too conspiratorial so I won't get into it. He embodies a particular strand of misanthropy and white guilt that is perfectly contrasted with Eren's character and his will to live. This is doubly so because he has always had the blood of the king (this is hardly a rewrite of the character, since the reveal makes loads of things make sense). The story goes out of it's way to name the traitor king of the Great Titan War "Fritz" again to make a point. The original King Fritz enslaves Ymir through her daughters, just as the traitor enslaves his people (Ymir's descendants) through the walls, both named Maria, Rose and Sina
>Zeke, in particular, feels like a totally different character in season 4 than he did prior
That's because he's cast in a retarded positive light that clashes really hard with his portrayal in the earlier seasons. This ties into what I've said about him being retconned. I don't think Isayama wanted to make him reduced to a poor quirk chungus little queer with a sob story about 'muh parents being strict' at all. I'll write about it later
>Also, my memory may be fuzzy, but what was up with that flower they called attention to when Eren turned into a titan to protect Mikasa and Armin from cannon fire so early in the anime? Felt like that was supposed to be a clue that the titans were going to be an environmentalism type allegory
I have a few theories on that but it won't fit in this comment

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>>292166987
I will always love /snk/

>>292167997
yeah I could never get how isayama tried to have him turn into a guy that didn't like killing and wants a peaceful end to eldians when he enjoys killing so much with how he did his yahoo strike cuck moment when he threw the boulders and killed the squad, fucking doesn't make sense

>>292167997
Continuation because why not
>There's traces that Isayama retconned his character too
He has a particularly interesting reaction when he sees the Eldians doing a suicidal charge, which was part of Erwin's plans. He berates them for "not learning from the mistakes of their past", and "making the same mistakes over and over again". The dialogue implies that throughout Eldia's history, they did things like suicidal charges and fought for honor/pride, in particular.
What strikes me from this is that we never get a hint that this happened at all. All we know of Eldia's history comes from the lessons Grisha's father taught him, and then a few comments here and there later on. Furthermore, this is incompatible with how he is portrayed later. Zeke, in his sob story, is portrayed as being above both the "pro-Eldia" propaganda and the "anti-Eldia" propaganda, only wanting to be accepted for who he is. This is incompatible with him seeing a (supposedly) repeated behavior on Eldians and becoming so irrationally angry he compares himself with the father he hates. It strikes me more like he was propagandized against Eldia.
>>292168173
Just read how fucking deadly and cruel he is when he kills Miche and his squad. Miche was humanity's second soldier, and he wasn't all that behind Levi. Effectively humanity's first if we consider the Ackermann have tampered genes. He had NO REASONS to kill Miche at that point. But he left him to be devoured alive by multiple small titans, most of which consisted of the children of Connie's village. The ugly nose titan is a literal baby btw, implied to be Connie's brother, as Connie's mother was pregnant and her titan had her guts open. Furthermore, he doesn't understand Zeke's orders, which tracks to him being a baby.
Fucking horrifying, you don't write a character like this to be sympathized ever. He was supposed to be a worse, more radical example of Gabi.

>>292167997
Zeke is an ethnic minority so he's not white

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>>292168224
>forgot image

>>292168234
Whites are a global ethnic minority. The Eldians are white.
I'm not white btw, so this is as unbiased as it can be. I'm just analyzing the story on it's own terms.

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>>292167997
>>292168224
How do you feel about Grisha as a character? In timeskip a lot of the characters just react as to what Eren does, but in Grisha's case all his reasons to fight are shown to be Eren manipulations through the power of the founding and attack titan. Eren robes Grisha's decisions from him. Do you think this was good?

>>292166753
>This, paired with his utterly demoralized state when the ending first came out assure me that I'm right.
I wasn't aware of this or really anything regarding the author. Was he just burnt out?

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>>292168371
Grisha is one of the few characters that remain very well written. You're mistaken if you think he ever had any agency to begin with. His entire character is regretting that he once wished to be free; this is why he turns into a titan by violently trusting his hand, the same hand he used to grab his sister's hand that day. He's a slave of circumstance, and of his own making, and he was shown to be like this long before the section on paths. Remember, for instance, picrel. His vision of Ymir and the Eldian Empire was entirely manufactured. This ties into the overall theme of the story which is centered around meaning, or rather, around how man is enslaved by meaning.
Now, I don't really believe the "Eren was manipulating everything" bullshit was going to be part of the metaphysics of the series as Isayama enviosioned it, I think he used it as a cop-out because he effectively wrote himself into a corner with the rushed, axed ending. But of course, there were always time manipulation components to the story. For one, Kruger regurgitates the words Grisha says to Eren later on, as if reading from his memories, even before the timeskip.
So in brief, I think Grisha wasn't badly treated by the final stretch. Certainly not by comparison with other characters, who got so thoroughly raped and assassinated it makes Faye's death look merciful.

>>292168460
He made a ton of apologetic comments at the time. From directly apologizing for the ending and recognizing it's dogshit and asking for forgiveness, to saying he felt like he had his hands tied much like Eren. His editors also often cracked jokes at the expense of the ending, including humiliating Eren.
It's all very vague but anyone around at the time remembers just how defeated he felt like in each interview

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>I'll do anything for my girl and I'm free to be me
>but I guess I'll go back to Marley and die over trying to see her
>author's note: I've got too many characters to juggle and so this one is exiting stage left

>>292168460
>Was he just burnt out?
definitely, but in general people really underestimate just how hard writing a serialized story is. revisions are so key to every other creative form.

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>>292168463
Good point anon.
Something to say about OG Ymir and Historia? Their final fate in the story was kind of a letdown.

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>>292168463
Further proof on Grisha's character
>>292168539
Lmao, to be fair it was always within her nature. Ymir is actually one of the nicest people in this show, she naturally desires to please, help and love other people. This is effectively how she dies too, being the ONLY person ever to actually understand the invading trio.
>>292168547
It has some queer undertones to it which are juxtaposed with the racial element of the story ("I was persecuted for who I was" etc), but it was an interesting play on Isayama's part that eventually got shafted like everything else.
Ymir in here is very much a stand-in for actual Ymir, and her character actions parallel actual Ymir's story (before the retarded retcons, just what happens in the paths). This, then, explains why she's a lesbo with Krista, whose real name is "Historia" (i.e. a stand-in for human history). Historia's character is one of the more nuanced and interesting ones, and her role is very much deeply foreshadowed as soon as Isayama decides to make her go from a random extra he didn't plan to an actual character in the end of S1.

>>292165613
I moved on BEFORE the finale, so the final chapter was comedy to me

AoT stopped being good a long time before, people just sunk cost and gaslit themselves or projected onto it.

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I know people quibble with the plot points that go nowhere or are handed poorly but I think there is just something to be said for the tonal change in season 4 by itself.

I have three seasons of brutality and misery but they were offset with lighthearted jokes and a sense of optimism even in this 'cruel, beautiful world'.

Season 4 was just misery. Taking what I had become attached to and jacking them around. And poorly at that. Even if the plot were more coherent, I'm still not sure I would have liked it just because of the tone. That's just me.

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>>292168611
>before the retarded retcons, just what happens in the paths
What do you mean with this? What could have been retconned?

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Eren 'Yeagerbomb' Yeager should have finished the fight

power of friendship turning him into a simp was a gay cuckout seconded only by chainsaw man

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>>292168632
When do you think it got shit anon?
>>292168641
I agree with you, though it's not without nuance. For instance, the entire dialogue of Eren and Reiner before the declaration of war on Paradis only makes sense when you understand that Isayama is deliberately withholding the sense of optimism from the viewer, and then jiggling it on your face by making it seem like Eren and Reiner are going to join hands.
>>292168663
>What do you mean with this? What could have been retconned?
I mean the entire plot point about Ymir being in love with Fritz and waiting for Mikasa to kill Eren for some retarded symbolic closure or whatever lol
By contrasting the two Ymirs, we can get the sense that the original Ymir was a very lovely, caring person who genuinely wanted to help others. She wanted to love, and be loved, this much is true. This is why she's shown looking at a couple, and this is why she helps the pig. But to a cruel world such as this, her kindness and love are seen as weaknesses to be exploited, and it's what happens. Ymir is enslaved in life and in death, and becomes the cornerstone of a ethnic conflict spanning centuries. Much like dyke Ymir pretends to be the real one for the sake of others, only to be betrayed and sacrificed.

EH is cute and canon

>>292168791
I don't think that is a retcon, but a disagreement as to how the story developed desu.

I am a farmer btw

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I wish this had remained a lower fantasy story about man vs monster. But then I get:
>there is a founder that can wipe out everyone's memories and even change their physiology
>time travel
>multidimensional travel via paths
>some special people are immune to the brainwashing

I think titans and even people turning into titans was okay. Although I don't understand why that old dude pure titan eating Eren didn't result in him becoming the Attack titan.

I also wish there weren't bottles that say 'Armor' on them that just so happen to be there when it's necessary to need it.

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>>292168977
It's not. But, to be fair, it's a bit nebulous because the difference lies in the subtext.
I've said it before that the main theme of the story revolves around humanity's struggle with meaning, and how meaning, regardless of what it is, can enslave us and lead us down perilous paths. Both Ymirs suffered precisely because they were enslaved by their own love/care for others. You can reread the chapters and confirm this (chapter 89 and 122). This is a central aspect of both characters, and a central aspect to the question at hand.
If you payed attention, you'll notice that Eldia didn't fall because it was defeated by some enemy. Even the whole narrative they have about Marley subverting Eldia was a lie. Eldia fell OUT OF IT'S OWN WILL. Eldia got betrayed by it's own leaders, the monarch (King Fritz) and the nobles (Tybur family), and started to tear each other apart in a brother war. And the reasoning behind it? Because King Fritz felt sorry for the other races. King Fritz, simultaneously embodying the callous king that enslaved Ymir, and a descendant of hers, became enslaved by his own love and care for others, and this is how the ENTIRE situation the protagonists are in is birthed.
Consider that Gabi and Zeke are analogous to white guilt, and you have a very comprehensive image being formed. Ymir used her powers to send memories across history so that she could be liberated of her own kindness, which is what made her a slave (since she had physical power enough to destroy Fritz). And it's in THIS moment that the Rumbling starts. The moment the Eldian is no longer bound by his own kindness in a cruel world that doesn't care about him, he can flatten a continent. Ehre the Saxon began to hate and all that.
This all got squabbled away

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>>292169088
THAT'S the meaning behind this face btw.
It's the moment the Eldian began to hate

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>my spinal fluid can make people turn into pure titans
>I've toppled nations this way
>I could appear near Paradis like Grisha did and then integrate in society
>Then become a wine maker and spread my fluid all over the entire island
>And destroy everyone without them even knowing what is happening at any point whatsoever
>but I won't do it that way
>send the kids to knock down the wall
>I'll show up later and play baseball with rocks

>>292165613
The wound gets reopened every thread, and I imagine a better ending every time.

But the solace is that it happens maybe once a month instead of once a week

>>292169088
>>292169128
Just to add further, this is also behind Eren's hatred against the idea of sacrificing Historia. Not only she's a stand-in for human history, her being sacrificed would only perpetuate the cycle of hurting yourself (which, if you think about it, is how they even transform in titans to begin with) to protect others.
Such a shame this entire story was thrown in the garbage bin

>>292166141
>Since I didn't follow any of this as it was debuting, I have no idea why Historia was obsessed with by the community
I can explain this one for you. Historia's basically promoted from side character to main cast status by the end of season 3 so everyone expected her to remain in that role. Isayama didn't feed the EM shipping beast at all so the scenes with Eren and Historia flirting led to people thinking this was the new direction of the plot. Oh, and now she's conveniently pregnant and the father of the Queen's child is being extremely vaguely described in a scene where we aren't supposed to trust the people talking about it? It all sets it up for Eren being the father, since Isayama seemingly forgot about EM in its entirety for nearly 4 years of the manga. Or however long it was between the end of Clash of the Titans and the timeskip. Most of the time if a character falls in love and gets pregnant off screen, the story will go out of its way to tell you of its unimportance, but we also had the Chekov's Gun where it was stated that if a Titan Shifter dies without being eaten, a random Eldian will be born with the powers instead, so people were thinking something might happen with that and so making it Eren's kid would also play into the need for everything to be connected and relevant.

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>>292169088
>>292169128
Damn, I do wonder if Isayama was wary of readers like you and decided that crashing his series was the moral way to go, kek.
It's been fun talking with you fren, this thread was worth it, but now I have to sleep, but before parting ways I have one last question if it doesn't bothers you: Do you have any fav ship? Kek
G' night

>>292166443
>Basically, he knew where he wanted to go, wrote half the story, and then wanted to u-turn but squaring the story away meant pulling a rabbit out of a hat and some of the audience can sense the shift.
>So I guess I could take it two ways. Either the finale was the problem because it clashed with the rest of the season or the whole season was the issue and the finale is just a byproduct of the lack of cohesion.

Him saying he was inspired by the ending of The Mist and saying "I want to hurt my readers" makes me think the ending was changed last minute and that's why it has such a huge dissonance.

Personally I find the Paths chapters cool so I'd say everything up to the start of the Rumbling as still good. Though I'd say the best ending point is the ambiguous ending at the beach before Liberio arc starts.

>>292169315
>Damn, I do wonder if Isayama was wary of readers like you and decided that crashing his series was the moral way to go, kek
I think he might have changed his mind, or got pressured into changing, idk. But it could very well be. His story was shaping up to be a complete condemnation of "slave morality" as described by Nietzsche, and it parallels the people most affected by it irl. You can see this in how he uses Christian imagery to represent the Reiss family and their fake religion (worshipping three walls, a clear reference to the trinity). You can see Isayama personally admonishing these ideas when Kenny talks about how Fritz's ideals are bullshit that can only be said by someone in power: https://youtu.be/dL3xXM2anrk?t=116
Also, about the last question, I'm not a ship guy but I'm of the opinion that Eren and Mikasa should have started dating after he confesses to her in the season 2 finale

>>292165613
Well, I'm not a nazi incel, so I has nothing to be mad about lol!

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>>292169400
Couldn't sleep lol, but yeah, SnK could be very redpilling in instances, and I think the author self awareness of his writing capabilities made sure that in case he couldn't properly sent his message, he could activate a failsafe in case of emergency, and I think that is what happened.
> I'm not a ship guy but I'm of the opinion that Eren and Mikasa should have started dating after he confesses to her in the season 2 finale
Yeah, many say this.
Still sad about Historia's role in timeskip, some panels and dialogue outside flashbacks during the current events wouldn't have hurt.

>>292167368
>>292167338
If you want something better than reaction content, around the time the finale came out I made a post pulling up literally every major SnK happening thread on /a/, from one anon making a schizopost during the Female Titan arc where he argued that Reiner and Bertholdt were titans and everyone told him to shut the fuck up. I can pull it up in a bit.

>>292165613
It's been what, six years? Four years left.

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>>292169490
>in case he couldn't properly sent his message, he could activate a failsafe in case of emergency
That could very well be true. The inner machinations of what happened will forever elude us, but it's not hard to see how controversial the story was shaping up to become.
Consider, for instance, the usage of world war II imagery in the story. The Eldians are on Madagascar, which is a reference to the irl initial draft of the Final Solution to the Jewish Question. They have the Samson Option. They use stars and are confined into ghettoes. BUT their names, their architecture, their appearance and history are germanic. They are portrayed as germanic barbarians in the past. THEY, and not the Marleyans, are the ones that use red armbands. They're said to have been imperialists, colonizers, racists, eugenicists, supremacists, etc. Isayama made a race that is effectively a composite of every historical grievance against Europeans and shoved them into the position we assign Jews in recent history.
Just that would have been, and was controversial enough. Then for him to center the entire story around casting aside the slave morality binding them (which is, btw, where the themes of "freedom" come from; it's not some vague nonsense like people make it seem to be in the internet), and to retake their will to live is insane.
>Still sad about Historia's role in timeskip
Entirely killed her character, she had such a meta position in the story. Like I said here >>292169189
>>292169493
Where, anon? I'd love to read it. I didn't watch the ending as it was being released so I actively lost most of the discussions. You can tell by how much I'm yapping that I really want to discuss the series lol

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>>292169603
If you want to know how things were during rhe release, it was basically EHfags being braggy about Eren being the father of Historia's child and the akatsuki no requiem theory, which you can search if you're interested cause I don't have the energy to explain it.
The HOAD was deserved though.
There were also legitimate complains, but they were sepulted by the rabing of the former.

>>292168791
>When do you think it got shit anon?
Hard to say the exact point, but looking back I definitely started to enjoy it less after the timeskip. I just did not enjoy the Marley cast, which probably affect my enjoyment. But I wouldn't say they were the whole reason it went to shit.

>>292169716
i was never an ehfag but now that i think about it the historia getting a child subplot doesn't make any sense in the storyline where eren literally declares war to the world and rumbles it all just for her to not have to do that

>>292169716
I vaguely remember the requiem thing. Wasn't that the one where they became convinced the ending was essentially leaked in a symbolic manner in one of the endings? Also, what's HOAD?
And damn what a shitshow kek, I don't think EH was ever going to be a romantic pairing (could have been, there were some scenes to it, but it's unlikely) since Historia is a stand-in character more than a real one. She's a stand-in for human history and how it's manipulated (and historical, as well as memory manipulation are constant themes in the story long before the timeskip), which is why the central theme in her character is being manipulated
>There were also legitimate complains, but they were sepulted by the rabing of the former
Many such cases lol
>>292169748
I get it. The Marley cast is a bit phoned in, with the exception of Reiner and Falco I think. Gabi and the other characters just aren't as interesting.
>>292169814
It's retarded
But in this case in particular, what he wanted to prevent was her being eaten alive by her child and the cycle that it would entail as Paradis modernizes itself, not necessarily her having children, although the anime made it ambiguous.

>>292168791
nta but RTS is where the cracks start to really show. not that the story was flawless up to that point by any means, but thats where the sense of his reach exceeding what he could pull off as a storyteller really became apparent.

>>292169833
>not necessarily her having children
well she would have to shit out children every year so essentially he also wanted her to not be forced to have children
dunno why that matters this hard or why historia had a kid anyway if eren did his rumbling this only makes sense if eren and historia are a thing

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>>292169833
A HOAD is for "Hall of Anal Devastation" kek.
I was in the thread of the pic with all the comments laughing at EHfags, it was fun seeing all the replies extend the post of Historia's page with her child and the farmer in the background.
I'm still an EHfag, but by the time I was already prepared for whatever was going to happen, but the final revelation that left no doubts about it still hitted like a truck

>>292169864
As exemplified by?
>>292169881
It makes sense in that Historia becoming a titan would be the key for them to use the powers of the coordinate at their own leisure, instead of depending on Zeke (who was dead set in destroying his own race), but the power comes with a life expectancy of 13 years. This would mean she would have to birth children, then get eaten alive by one of them, and then continue the cycle as the Reiss family had done before. This ties symbolically into Historia being manipulated by others to do things against her will, as well as being enslaved by her kindness to others (that is, the choice of NOT doing the Rumbling and flattening out every enemy of Paradis to begin with). This is what Eren protests against, but it's not very competently shown in the story so it feels like a third-rate romance
>>292169951
Lmfao goddamn
So THAT's where the farmer memes come from

>>292169991
In case what I said sounds alien to you, I explained these themes here >>292168611 >>292168791 >>292169088

>>292169991
general contrivances but mainly serumbowl, and i say that as someone who gave zero shits about either character. its the same structure, a undercooked moral dilemma where you can see the shape of what he wants to convey but the execution is haphazard and the messaging ends up both vague & preachy.

as a past emfag i gotta say eh is way better of a ship and makes more sense in the end

>>292170073
>>292169991
i should say, if that comes off very general its because i haven't gone back and read the series in years, i'm just going off memory.