>>33751010
>Isn’t accepting Jesus as your savior enough because he forgave ALL sins?
All of your sins are forgiven up to the point where you accept Jesus as your saviour. From that point on, you are responsible for everything you do. Of course, no one is perfect, and everyone screws up sometimes: so long as you are genuinely sorry and *genuinely* make an effort to do better in future, that's usually okay. But there are some sins so bad that if you commit them in the full knowledge of what you are doing and how bad it is, they can't be forgiven. Cold-blooded murder for selfish reasons is certainly one of them.

There is no point in complaining about this, because it's not a human decision. *God* has decided that some things are so bad, they can't be forgiven. The only choice humans have is whether they tell you about this or keep it a secret, and they've chosen to keep you informed. Complain to God that you think His policy is wrong if you want to, but you won't get very far with that.

Of course, you *could* decide that none of this makes any sense and that your entire religion is bullshit from beginning to end; that's also an option. But if you believe that God makes the rules then you have to accept that you can't challenge God's decisions.

>>33751010
You're brainwashed if you believe these fairy tales. I don't get how people still fall for that crap.

>>33751086
>All of your sins are forgiven up to the point where you accept Jesus as your saviour. From that point on, you are responsible for everything you do.
He died for past, present and FUTURE sins too. How is it not sufficient enough to say “I’m human, I’ll sin, but I believe wholeheartedly in Jesus as my savior” and then live a good, normal life?

>>33751010
think you may want to talk to a priest because ideally you should understand the basis of our faith, but I'll try to address these as a fellow Catholic

>So having premarital sex is equal to killing someone because both are mortal sins, and we’re supposed to just accept that?
Killing someone is much much worse. The classification of sins into venal versus mortal is about whether you were fully aware of your sin, did you actively choose to defy God's will and substitute it with your own. Among the mortal sins, some are much worse than others.
You are suppose to accept that both are sins in which you consciously and actively choose rebellion against God

>Or like not going to Church or confession is enough to send you directly to hell
Not really true, since you can be absolved of all your sins by deathbed confession and Last Rights or just by dying truly repenting your sins.
But, if you love God and repent of your sins, you should be going to mass and to confession and, yes, failing to go is a sin because it is something God wants you to do

>Isn’t accepting Jesus as your savior enough because he forgave ALL sins?
We are only saved and forgiven because of Jesus, none of the forgiving would be possible without him. But that doesn't give us license to sin. We still have free will to discard the gift of God's grace, choose sin, and damn ourselves to hell. Accepting Jesus means choosing to follow His will and to reject sin

>Meaning he wouldn’t send you to hell anyway?
No one is "sent to hell", you choose hell by rejecting God and choosing to live without him in hell

>Why the fuck is it so confusing when I just want to live a normal life?
As a Catholic, you are not called to live a normal life. You are called to live a life of radical love, mercy, charity, and obedience. You are called to live an extraordinary life, using Mary abd the saints as our role models

>>33751102
Jesus has given you the power, through the Holy Spirit to not sin. Yes, realistically, you are going to sin and Jesus will forgive you if you ask him, but you need to be truly sorry. I'm getting the feeling that you do not understand the gravity of sin and how much it hurts your relationship with God

>>33751010
Ill answer you with the 5 monkeys experiment (not a real experiment that was actually done. Its a thought experiment.)..

There are 5 monkeys in an enclosure and There is a bunch of bananas hanging from the ceiling at the top of an easily climbable ladder.

The first monkey goes for it. The zookeeper turns on a high-pressure cold water hose and sprays the monkey and all the other monkeys. Another one tries, and again, the zookeeper hoses them all down.

The monkeys stop trying. One is removed, and a new monkey is introduced. The new monkey goes for the bananas, but this time, the other 4 grab him, pull him down and beat the shit out of him.

They continue to remove and replace monkeys until no monkey in the enclosure has gotten the hose. Yet still they all know: do not go for the bananas, of you get beat tf up. They don't know why, they dont know about the hose. Its just how things are done..


Rules from religion are basically this experiment. It isnt so much as "you'll die in eternal hellfire" as much as "over 12,000 years of human civilization weve figured out a few things that consistently seem to make life better or worse, and some of these things have dire health consequences."

Also remember things like, 100 years ago if you got syphilis youd die. So ignore the fact with religion they promise wrath of God if you commit sins, and think more "why was this so important to people?" And I guarantee you for many rules, theres some element of "this can or used to cause injury or death, or life is just better if you did it this way." But especially because pre marital sex isnt the death sentence it used to be, we're the monkeys who dont know the real consequences.

>>33751116
>>33751128
I’m merely confused on the idea that one could live a good life, be wary that they’re imperfect, be baptised, have Jesus saving them with his death for all sins, and then be discarded to hell anyway because they want to act on something human like sex. If my future sins are forgiven definitively and I was granted grace, then it’s known I will sin and it was forgiven before I was born. Belief in Jesus should be enough, with the obvious remorsefulness of sin. I don’t understand having to be like super strict about even your thoughts because you’re going to hell anyway for like 90% of stuff you do daily.

>>33751137
It makes sense sure, but I’m not talking about like fucking prostitutes and shooting up heroin. The church would assume hell even for something like masturbation, which literally everyone does mainly safely and with no harm to anyone. I don’t see how grace can be universal but so flimsy.

>>33751102
>How is it not sufficient enough to say “I’m human, I’ll sin, but I believe wholeheartedly in Jesus as my savior” and then live a good, normal life?
Because God has decided that it is not sufficient, and you don't have the authority to challenge God's decision.

>>33751159
Jesus outright says belief in him is salvation. Dismas didn’t go to confession or get baptised and only believed in Christ and was raised to heaven.

>>33751102
Becuase accepting God's grace means following God, the definition of the ultimate good. Nobody is perfect Romans 3:10-12 so accepting this and trying to reform for the better in the example of Christ is what we're called to do. The Catholic Church makes a difference between venial and mortal sin, mortal sins are commited with full knowledge, so by reverting back to sin with full conscience you break this.
>>33751010
The rules aren't arbitrary, there is a theological explanation for each and every one of them, but they are strick, and your reward is that everyone will hate you and you'll suffer for what you believe in, like Christ did.
>Isn’t accepting Jesus as your savior enough because he forgave ALL sins? Meaning he wouldn’t send you to hell anyway?
1. Ask yourself what it means to accept Jesus, if it means just nominally, you are lukewarm, (Matthew 7:21), it means fully embracig the grace of God and living like Christ did.
2. God can forgive sins, it's your job to repent, it's not up to you to decide, so you cannot be certain that you'll recieve salvation, even in repentance, so live your life through the example of Christ.
>So having premarital sex is equal to killing someone because both are mortal sins, and we’re supposed to just accept that?
There is no sin which isn't unforgiveable but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, no matter how much of a sinner you are, you CAN be forgiven if you ask for forgiveness. In the Gospels, Jesus specifically calls out pharisees becuase they know the law and they still sin, so a thief or a murderer is better than a religious hypocrite in that way.
>Or like not going to Church or confession is enough to send you directly to hell.
Like i said, the status of each Soul is known only to God, this is a more complicated to answer since there are special situations, but in essence, taking part in the Eucharist and confession shows that you are ready to repent and follow Christ, so it's neccessary. (John 6:53)

>>33751151
I said "most" for a reason.
Youre also supposed to burn bulls because god likes the smell. Not all of it has good reason. Some of it is likely the guy in charge saying "gross i dont like that". Many hands with many motives wrote that.

Or they figured out 12k years ago what we know now, chronic masturbation causes mental health issues. So they just say "don't do that cause God says". Its difficult to pin down exactly why anything says anything.

>>33751165
I understand you point but to me, if Grace was granted, and he died for our sins , even future ones, I should not be worried about burning in eternity for having a one night stand or something. Or worse, not even realizing I’m sinning. Even Jesus flipped the tables in anger.

>>33751151
>The church would assume hell even for something like masturbation, which literally everyone does mainly safely and with no harm to anyone.
91% of men in the west consume pornography on the daily basis, but nobody realises that this is self destructive and promotes horrible things like the pornographic industry and destroys potential for human life and may have psychological and physical deterement like unrealistic sexual expectation, addiction and erectile dysfunction...
>Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Also isn’t admitting my humanity and still believing in Christ better than pretending I can even hope to live up to perfection? I want to enjoy this life and not be tormented with the idea that there even is a hell

>>33751196
So what’s the alternative? To never masturbate again and bury your human urges until you snap? Why isn’t admitting your humanity as feeble and sinful and feeling sorry for it enough?

>>33751196
>Masturbating with your imagination doesn’t exist

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>>33751185
>I should not be worried about burning in eternity for having a one night stand or something.
But becuase you know that this is morally wrong, you should repent for it. i mention again the difference between mortal and venial sins. If you do accept God, you also accept objective good, and no one except a hypocrite would try to live an upright life while doing this what you mentioned on the side, since they'd, you know, intuitively know that it's wrong.

>>33751142
>Belief in Jesus should be enough, with the obvious remorsefulness of sin

Yes, this is enough. But the remorsefulness of sin means trying not to sin and being truly sorry when you have sinned and seeking God's forgiveness.

Jesus's sacrifice is to forgive all your sins, but you still need to choose to ask for forgiveness. If you do not ask for forgiveness, you will not be forgiven.

Also, I recommend reading the Church's position on sex to understand the role of sex in God's creation and why He has limited it to within the sacrament of marriage

>>33751142
>Belief in Jesus should be enough, with the obvious remorsefulness of sin

Yes, this is enough. But the remorsefulness of sin means trying not to sin and being truly sorry when you have sinned and seeking God's forgiveness.

Jesus's sacrifice is to forgive all your sins, but you still need to choose to ask for forgiveness. If you do not ask for forgiveness, you will not be forgiven.

Also, I recommend reading the Church's position on sex to understand the role of sex in God's creation and why He has limited it to within the sacrament of marriage

>>33751213
I don’t believe it’s wrong though, we’re just told it is. This is the point of the thread. I don’t see how anyone on Earth gets into heaven with the insane legalistic bullshit of the church for stuff like sex, let alone the other stuff

>>33751202
I haven't masturbated in more than a year pretty much, and haven't looked up pornography since january (unless you count idiots spamming this board with porn every few days)... It's not that hard once you realise what you strive for, for me it was just looking at Mother Mary and what i was looking at back then. It's a night and day contrast, these whores will die miserable, degraded and bitter, while Our Lady was venerated by billions through her humility...

>>33751218
I believe in God, I believe Jesus rose and died for our sins, I know I’m human and can’t give up the human urge for sex no matter how wrong it’s considered. I get angry and have human emotion. I know some things I do are wrong, but I’m not remorseful over making love to a beautiful woman. I am righteous in other ways, I pray for strength and guidance and to forgive people who wrong me and give them good lives despite my anger.

But I’m going to hell?

>>33751231
>these whores will die miserable, degraded and bitter
How is this Christ like and who are you to preach to me?

>>33751151
Because mortality rates were higher back then and despite people having 10+ children only like 2 survived. So of course you want people to procreate to increase the number of peasants and your power over the kingdom. Imagine you send explorers to populate the moon and you let them masturbate instead of procreating to create a population. It would end up too well. Also, people didn't have mandatory school back then and were dumb, so you had to make laws simple and frightening like "you'll go to hell and suffer for this or that action".

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>>33751224
>In the context of Revelation, we know that the “heaven” or “happiness” in which we will find ourselves is neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds but a living, personal relationship with the Holy Trinity. It is our meeting with the Father that takes place in the risen Christ through the communion of the Holy Spirit.
We turn the Earth into heaven, we make the New Jerusalem ourselves. The Churches and cathedrals with all their beuaties can be seen as colonies of heaven here on earth, but when you look at it closely, it's hardly any perfection, but still objective beauty built by following the Lord.
Hope this heaven analogy helped.

>>33751164
>Jesus outright says belief in him is salvation.
No. He says that no one can be saved *unless* they believe in him. Believing in him is necessary, but it is not sufficient.

>>33751164
>Dismas didn’t go to confession or get baptised and only believed in Christ and was raised to heaven.
He was also a good person. Someone who embraces Jesus as his saviour and then commits mass murder is not going to heaven.

>>33751245
When did i judge you? It's only up to god to judge... And while i did overstep myself with harsh language i never denied that they may repent or be saved, it's just that this lifestyle leads to destruction, and Jesus himself harshly warns about incentivising others to sin.
>But whoso shall cause one of these little ones who believe in Me to fall, it were better for him that a millstone were hung about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

>>33751198
>Also isn’t admitting my humanity and still believing in Christ better than pretending I can even hope to live up to perfection?
No one is perfect. But you have an absolute duty to keep striving to get as close to perfection as you can. If you don't do that, simple belief won't save you.

>>33751245
>And who are you to preach to me?
Well, i'm obliged to defend my faith at all costs, and Christ calls upon his followers to be the fishers of Men.
If i am being a hypocrite, i also expect someone to point it out, but this does not mean that i should stop.

>>33751274
I’m talking about premarital sex, I think it’s ridiculous it’s on the same level as murder, I never said a mass murderer should be in heaven
>>33751279
Yes, and my “close to perfection” doesn’t involve me giving up sex, so I’m at a loss here. I will still pray, I will still hold Jesus as my savior, but I cannot give up sex before marriage and willfully will partake in it
>>33751287
Hoping people suffer for being human and having sex isn’t defending your faith, people like you push people like me away from tbe church

>>33751238
>But I’m going to hell?
Probably, yes. You regularly sin. You *know* that what you do is sinful. You aren't sorry that you do it. And you intend to continue sinning and not being sorry about it. That means, on the level that really matters, you are *rejecting* Jesus and God's teachings, because you think you know better than God, and that what God wants from you doesn't matter.

Hell is a place where people go who have abandoned God. Right now, you *claim* to believe, but your actions make it clear that, on a more fundamental level, you don't. You're exactly what Jesus meant in Matthew 23:27-28: "You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."

>>33751238
If you are not remorseful for "making love to a beautiful woman" outside of sacramental marriage, then yes, you are choosing damnation

However, it seems like you just don't understand why premarital sex is wrong and that's the issue. Just go talk to your priest and ask him to explain Church doctrine on premarital sex and then hopefully you'll see why it is wrong, be remorseful, go to confession, and have your sins forgiven

>>33751320
I will still believe with all my heart regardless, my children will be baptized, they will be catholic, and I will still live a moral life.

If hell awaits me, then everyone I’ve ever known is probably in hell too, and God is not truly all loving and forgiving

>>33751302
Unfortunately, you don't make the rules, here. God makes the rules. If God says something is wrong, it's wrong. Whether it makes sense to you or not is irrelevant. It's not your call.

>>33751323
I do understand “why” it’s wrong in the church view, I just don’t agree with it I guess. I would just continue to do it anyway

>>33751331
God also gave his son to die and forgive everyone even in the future. I can only either be forgiven or not forgiven, it makes no sense

>>33751326
>I will still believe with all my heart regardless
No, you don't. That's my point: you don't.

If you really believed WITH ALL YOUR HEART, you would be doing absolutely everything in your power to live the way you know God wants you to live. But you aren't. Instead you are merely doing the things that are convenient to you and ignoring the parts you don't like. Your sexual desires are more important to you than God is. If you truly believed with all your heart, NOTHING would be more important to you than doing what God wants.

So, no, you don't believe with all your heart. And you are a hypocrite.

>>33751326
>If hell awaits me, then everyone I’ve ever known is probably in hell too, and God is not truly all loving and forgiving
God is all loving and forgiving; but if you choose to reject God in your heart, it makes no difference whether He loves you or not; you will end up in a place without God, because you have *chosen* to send yourself there.

>>33751347
I meant I believe with all my heart that Jesus is the son of God who died for our sins.

Most legalistic stuff in the Bible was man made, meant as a form of social control 2000 years ago. Much of it is incompatible with life today.

I don’t rape, I don’t murder, I pray for myself to find strength and to guide others, and I’m openly admitting I’m imperfect. Again, everyone we know is probably in hell if the standards are so high.

>>33751342
It doesn't matter whether it makes sense to you or not. God makes the rules; you don't.

>>33751333
You should definitely bring this up with your priest. I hope you can be convinced because the Bible is very clear that what you are discussing is a sin

>>33751355
Right; which is a completely counter productive point to being told all your sins were washed away and you were justified in your baptism.

It’s a paradox that makes no sense.

>>33751357
>I meant I believe with all my heart that Jesus is the son of God who died for our sins.
Yes. You state that you believe this, but you don't. If you actually believed this, you would behave differently.

>>33751362
By your logic no one on earth believes it because we aren’t quakers and luddites flaggelating ourselves because we thought about sex. Jesus died so we wouldnt feel the need to feel this way

>>33751360
I haven’t been to Church since I learned the Pope shifted pedophile priests around to hide their crimes. Lost almost all interest in going and speaking to presumably someone who is a gay guy or a pedophile.

Jesus also hated dogs btw. In the older books there’s retarded stuff like mixing fabrics together being a sin. Just live a good life and treat people nicely.

>>33751365
>By your logic no one on earth believes it because we aren’t quakers and luddites flaggelating ourselves because we thought about sex.
Christianity makes it very clear that no one is perfect. 1 John 1: "If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

However, that is not remotely the same thing as saying that committing sins doesn't matter. The duty of each and Christian is to *try* not to sin. It is a given that sometimes we will fail; and when that happens, if we genuinely regret what we did and genuinely try not to do it again, we will be forgiven. And constantly wallowing in guilt isn't desirable either: you need to move on and actively start doing good things.

But saying "fuck it, I don't care what God wants" is NEVER okay.

>>33751361
>It’s a paradox that makes no sense.
Not at all. When you are baptised, all of the sins you have committed UP TO THAT POINT are washed away. You don't get a free pass to commit more sins in the future with complete impunity.

>>33751406
I never said to sin with impunity, only Jesus died so every single sin ever committed is washed away and those that follow him are justified.
>>33751400
I simply know trying is futile, I’m a human with needs and wants and finite time in my youth to do things. The church has bigger problems than my normal adult sex life when they have a systemic pedophilic abuse problem that’s causing mass faith loss across the world.

>>33751414
Trying is NOT futile. Just don't have premarital sex. It's really easy to just not have sex.
But look the bottom line is the Bible is clear that premarital sex is a sin. If you do not repent for this sin and ask for forgiveness, you will go to hell. Jesus's sacrifice will not prevent you from choosing hell by deciding you are going to ignore his teachings and not ask for forgiveness

>>33751429
>Just don’t have sex
I’m afraid I can’t do that and will jist have to resign to whatever fate is decided for me. I’m sure when I’m married I’ll change my mind to it.

>>33751436
I will pray for you. I hope that your sin does not too deeply scar your soul

>>33751414
>only Jesus died so every single sin ever committed is washed away
No, that is flat-out wrong.

Every sin ever committed *can* be forgiven, but may not be; there are additional conditions.

>>33751414
>I simply know trying is futile
You're saying you are physically unable to stop yourself having sex? Bullshit. You are simply rejecting God because getting your dick wet is more important to you than God is. Stop trying to pretend this isn't true.

>>33751436
If it is actually true that you cannot stop yourself from having sex, you need to be put into a secure mental institution before you rape someone.

>>33751302
> it's just that this lifestyle leads to destruction, and Jesus himself harshly warns about incentivising others to sin.
I don't hope for anyone to suffer, i pray for my enemies and those who do me wrong.

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>>33751472
>Hoping people suffer for being human and having sex isn’t defending your faith, people like you push people like me away from tbe church
Also, people who claim to believe can be hypocrites, and but again...
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
I have met people in the church praising fascists, being openly racist, or generally being degenerates but that does not mean that the fath or even the church is wrong. It's not about people, it's about beliefs, so even if i am being an idiot, it should have nothing to do with your faith and your conviction.

>>33751010
There's no reason to accept ANY of this shit as true. Once you start questioning church doctrine there's literally no reason to stop there. There's no consistency to the biblical text and Jesus was probably just a rabbi who kicked off a cult after he died. Paul and all the early christians clearly believed he was coming back next week or next month. But that never happenned. It's embarassing really if you read it with that in mind.
SO you either accept all of this nonsense, or none of it. And I'm not talking about the existence of God, I don't know whether God exists. I'm talking about Christianity and its dogmas.

>>33751639
Perhaps not, that is why we rely on faith, as objectively believing in this would be unreasonable... So each to his own.
The Catholic Church has had the tendency to implement really abstract concepts such as transubstantiation or the immaculate conception in its dogmas, it is not that they don't have biblical consistency, it's just that there beliefs were deductive and philosophical in nature - that is why many catholics adore people like Aristotle for having a similar way of thinking.
What i can say is that the early church and the Church Fathers thought the exact same way, even the Nicene Creed is seen as too abstract for some people since it's theologically and philosophically heavy.
Take transubstantiation for example, over 2000 years of doctrine and you have a perfect explanation for it in every corner, you just have to look for it, it's the same with other doctrinal concepts, it may be deductive in nature but it is biblical, for every dogma, doctrine and practice as opposed to leaving it to mystery or having no explanation...
These need to exist becuase if you have 2 people with 2 interpritations, you have to appeal to people who've lived through these events, the followers of Christ, the Apostles and their descendents - hence you get the early church so full with metaphysics and doctrines.
>Paul and all the early christians clearly believed he was coming back next week or next month.
Not true, in the sense how you see it. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 allude to this but there's multiple things you must take into consideration.
1. Christ is eternal, including His presence
2. The passages describe the return of Christ on judgement day, to those who are still alive
3. Early Christian martyrs like St. Steven would've seen no point in dying for what they believed in if this was so close, yet all of the Apostles (but one) experienced grusome deaths on account of this. Meaning that the passage about Christ's return is more abstract.

>>33751456
I’m not the incredible hulk retard, I don’t WANT to stop. Safe, consensual sex in 2025 harms no one. What a stupid fucking thing to say that RAPE is the next conclusion.

You should talk about how priests rape kids, which is reality.

>>33751743
Ok but then you have stuff like Revelations, which is nonsense. And people believing the Earth is 3000 years old. And there’s plenty of really stupid rules in the old testament like mixing fabrics together being a sin. A lot of it simply isn’t compatible with todays world

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>>33753381
>Safe, consensual sex in 2025 harms no one.
Not immediately, but long-term psychological consequences are more prone to happen.
The unhappiest demographic in america
>Ok but then you have stuff like Revelations, which is nonsense.
1. Revelations is extremely abstract, so much so that theologists like Calvin refused to write commentaries on it becuase they considered it holy grouund, even so, objective truth can be pulled from it, leading to beliefs such as amillenialism (hence why we create heaven on earth through faith) or reinforcing the belief that Christ (The Lamb) is our ultimate saviour who conquers death...

>And people believing the Earth is 3000 years old.
6000* And this stams from fideism, which the catholic church doesn't promote.
> And there’s plenty of really stupid rules in the old testament like mixing fabrics together being a sin.
Levitic/Mosaic laws were partially paedagogical rather than absolute, with Christ, these were fulfiled in the New Covenant, so we are no longer subject to these, so we can eat pork, shave with razors or sow different fabrics together (Christians are the New Israel)
>A lot of it simply isn’t compatible with todays world
That's the point.
>If you belonged to the world, the world would love you as its own. Because you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world—therefore the world hates you.
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father[a] is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.
being a Christian (or Catholic) is not arbitrary, we can't say that being gay is wrong but then fornicate, it's a stand against the whole world, and your reward is suffering.
You either accept it or don't. It's not about comfort.

>>33751010
Look into the teachings of the early church (circa 300 AD). They are radically different from what the church teaches today.

Tldr: you don't have to live your life in fear

>>33753725
If that’s the case I don’t accept then. No God should want his people to suffer arbitrarily.

>>33753381
Then trying not to have sex isn't futile, is it? And you were lying when you said it was. You simply choose not to try, because you think that sex is more important than God. So yeah: you are rejecting God, and you will go to Hell for it.

>>33751010
>Isn’t accepting Jesus as your savior enough because he forgave ALL sins?
>antinomianism, again
This is exactly why they didn't let the Bible be translated from Latin in the past, because this is the kind of shit the hedonistic, shortsighted masses cook up within seconds of that kind of spiritual responsibility.

>>33753725
>Levitic/Mosaic laws were partially paedagogical rather than absolute, with Christ, these were fulfiled in the New Covenant
There's also the difference between moral and ceremonial law.

>>33751010
>Isn’t accepting Jesus as your saviour enough because he forgave ALL sins
Belief isn't enough, you need to prove you deserve it, ex. fasting, going to church, following the rules, praying, etc. It's like saying your mother will love you no matter what, but she will love you even more if you actually became a productive member of society instead of a neet. She may still love you, but when she passes you'll be shit out of luck. I personally try to follow the rules because my ancestors were super Christians, and I'll get in their good books if I follow their dumb rules even though the world changed so much that lots of consequences can be mitigated with medicine and knowledge.

>>33751255
Hey, I promise you, masturbation doesnt stop you from having 10 kids.. like you gotta show up once a year for that assuming you have one wife as God intended.. this was a huge reach..

>>33754326
>If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Grace is given, not earned. We were given grace when he died on the cross, no? So that all past, present, and future sins are forgiven. No one on Earth today is worthy of heaven based solely on their works, even the Pope.

>>33754336
It's much easier to get grace if you follow the rules. Enough with baptist bull.

>>33754366
I’m Catholic

>>33754336
No one is saved from works, but works are the natural outgrowth of faith. It is the parable of the trees: good trees bear good fruit and you shall know the nature of a tree by its fruit.

>>33754371
Then read the Catechism of the Church., because you'vd been bringing up stuff like Young Earth Creationism and Mosaic Law that isn't part of Catholic teaching. You should make an effort to understand your own faith

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>>33751010
>So having premarital sex is equal to killing someone because both are mortal sins, and we’re supposed to just accept that?

> Isn’t accepting Jesus as your savior enough because he forgave ALL sins? Meaning he wouldn’t send you to hell anyway? Why the fuck is it so confusing when I just want to live a normal life?

What you call a normal life in 2025 would border on hedonism in the past. We have an excess of pleasure really and we don't really recognize how hard people had it back then and even further back in antiquity.

On a spiritual level YES ITS A PROBLEM - you are thinking "all these silly rules" from the lens of the material plane , and lowkey bro , they got their claws in you deep. But these rules are playing a BIGGER GAME - forget "oh they did it to control society" , "oh they did it to take the fun away" etc etc , all of that probably is true but it doesn't change the underlying spiritual objective.

Jesus died for your sins so you could have a clean slate and begin again in pursuing divinity , not to give you a full pass to let you off the hook.

When you study monks and mystics of virtually every traditon, they all renounce these "normal things" like women, excess wealth, etc etc. Because the GOAL is to need only GOD - that's how you unlock divinity. Bitches don't even know how much of an agent of satan / the matrix they really are - you think its "just a relationship" but she's lowkey clawing you down to the material realm and keeping you trapped here no matter how much patience it takes.

You want to have your cake and eat it - get into heaven , but I'll let you in on the quiet part , most "normal people" that you think of are NOT getting into ANY heaven. To actually unlock divinity is a serious and disciplined effort - you feel pain in giving these things up.

I'm telling you this because its never going to be written any clearer , especially on /adv/

You have to decide what is important to you!

>>33751010
You’re absolved by confession. That’s the whole point, you’re not catholic of you don’t know the bare minimum

>>33754985
>most "normal people" that you think of are NOT getting into ANY heaven.
And therein lies the problem. I’d rather be with the people I love than alone in heaven.

And according to Catholic teaching when Jesus returns there will be a new Earth, new bodies, and all your time for eternity will be spent praising God. You can’t even sleep with your spouse in heaven…why the fuck would anyone think that’s a good thing? It’s like a weird brainwashing thing.

>>33751010
All that crap is politics. Jesus wants you to know that God is Satan and this world is Hell and that (You) are the highest power.

>>33755070

For the record dude, I totally get it. It's hard. You have to decide what's important to you. But I will say this , this notion of romantic love that you are attached too - is fundamentally a lie. It doesn't truly exist. It's an illusion. A longing for what was never yours. Women do not love how men love a woman. That's their whole game / survival strategy.

The idea is you will love and be loved back by the only thing in the universe that ever truly loved you. God. You haven't felt it so again you're thinking with the material plane logic and not what comes next.

AGAIN, I fully recognize this goes over a lot of people's heads and makes them bow out. I'm not here to sway you to any side - it seems from how you respond that you're pretty set on leaving the divine behind, that's fine bro , go have your fun and god will be waiting (if u have enough time left ofc).

>the idea that hell is used to scare the shit out of you
Caring about the afterlife is a means of numbing yourself to the fact that the current world is transient. You're taking ketamine while being scared of the ketamine?

>So having premarital sex is equal to killing someone because both are mortal sins
Catholic women have a reputation for a reason

>Why the fuck is it so confusing when I just want to live a normal life?
You're a catholic. This is your normalcy

>>33755098
It’s not even about love, apparently from what I’m reading you’ll also forget your loved ones in heaven too who didn’t make it? How eternally selfish is that for God to only want you to love him? So all of life is so we can love God and nothing else? In some new weird lobotomized body no less on some new weird planet? Yeah I’m good I think now that I’m reading this all back…

>>33755143
Heaven sucks and hell sucks. Literally doesn't matter which one. The sense of salvation is meant for you to experience in this world

>>33755153
So why the fuck would I care about any of this?

So to summarize

>Live life on Earth, gain loved ones and suffer all the time
>Some loved ones don’t go to heaven (even your most loved ones)
>You somehow get into heaven, which is basically just a new weird Earth where you have a new weird body and God is there and your wife isn’t your wife anymore and your kids aren’t your kids (everyones brother and sister instead)
>Since sadness doesn’t exist, you’re either memory wiped or brainwashed so you aren’t constantly thinking about your loved ones who didn’t make it burning in hell or are even happy they’re in hell because it’s “just”
>For eternity

This is what I’m supposed to believe as a Catholic and no one thinks this is bizzarre or horrifying?

>>33755120
And what reputation is that?

>>33755856
>This is what I’m supposed to believe as a Catholic
No.

>>33755007
>You’re absolved by confession
Er, no. Confession is merely the first step. You have to genuinely repent, too. For example, if you steal something, it's not enough to confess to the priest that you stole it; you would also need to compensate the person you stole from with something of at least equal value, and take *active* steps to prevent yourself from stealing again. If you're not willing to do those things then you're not genuinely repentant, and you can't obtain absolution until you are.

>>33754336
>Grace is given, not earned. We were given grace when he died on the cross, no? So that all past, present, and future sins are forgiven.
It doesn't matter how many times you say this, you're still flat-out wrong.

>>33751010
I always thought it was sus that God and Satan are in a contest to see who can gather the most souls, but if you join Satan's side it's nothing but punishment and torture for all eternity.

Or how certainly in the Old Testament at least, God is directly responsible for the deaths of thousands of people, whereas iirc all that Satan ever really did in the human world was like try to offer Jesus a glass of water while he was tripping in the desert.

bit of a bias/unreliable narrator if you ask me

>>33751010
>Do any other Catholics here struggle with the idea that hell is used to scare the shit out of you into following a bunch of extremely abitrary and strict rules?
You absolutely, fundamentally, do not understand what sin is, or what Hell is.

Hell is not a punishment, and sin is not an arbitrary set of rules. God has a nature; and in order to be with God, your own nature must (on an infinitely more minute scale) resemble God's nature.

To become the way you need to be in order to be with God is a choice. God is, of course, all-powerful, so He could just force everyone to be like Him; but He doesn't do that, because He doesn't want to: He wants companions, not mindless automatons. So, to make your own nature compatible with God's must be a choice; and that means you can also choose not to do it. You can choose to reject God; you can choose to delete God from your soul; you can choose to make your nature fundamentally incompatible with that of God.

If you make that choice, God doesn't punish you for it: but YOU are choosing to reject and abandon God (not the other way round). God does not send you to Hell; you send YOURSELF to Hell by rejecting God. And there is nothing that even God can do to stop you (again, not without reducing you to a mindless slave). So, Hell is not a punishment, it is a choice: your choice.

Similarly, Hell is not some kind of supernatural prison camp. Hell is more a state of being: a state of absolute, eternal despair and suffering that comes from cutting yourself off from God forever and abandoning Him; by becoming something that is not compatible with God's nature.

So there are no "rules", and certainly no arbitrary rules: there are certain things it is necessary to do, and certain things it is necessary not to do, in order to make your nature compatible with God's. All God can do is tell you what those things are; it's entirely up to you whether you pay attention or not; but if you don't, you send yourself to Hell.

>>33759126
>God does not send you to Hell; you send YOURSELF to Hell by rejecting God.
sounds like an abusive stepdad
>YOU made me do this, boy!

also

>Hell is not a punishment, it's more of a state of absolute, eternal despair and suffering that comes from cutting yourself off from God

>>33759164
You really are dumb, aren't you? If you are in the most wonderful, happy, loving marriage imaginable, and you choose to walk out, that doesn't mean your spouse is abusing you. YOU are choosing to leave; they can't stop you from walking out, because staying or leaving is your decision. (Chaining you up to stop you from leaving actually would be abuse). And if you choose to leave forever, and you are far more miserable where you end up, it is still not your spouse's fault that you chose to leave them.

Understand now?

I think you're taking the bible out of context ro support a dumb view on how a benevolent being views human nature. Out of all of your points are you aware of people like Peter who was mentioned in the bible? Jesus encountered so many broken people in the bible that he wanted to help repair their lives to make better out of it. It is a book that relies how God wants you to be out of your human condition. Hell you spending everyday snorting laced cocaine to complain about society with your friends I'd say is a sin, but if you are struggling to get off of the addiction making an effort that is different. Now why is premartial sex seen as bad? Because you are essentially telling an Eve as an Adam to go through the pain of birth without a bond spend together. You don't realize this but where you put your skin and bodily fluids can have an effect if it is in the wrong place. I'd rather value my life than hook up with the wrong person, but most of you all who live in first world countries won't listen as you got the idea of being ghetto is cool so far up your ass it fucked up your reasoning ability, which is common of gen z and millenials. I don't know I'd rather trust a book that tells me to love and forgive than an individual who tells me to fuck up my body and myself for his satisfaction so that I can fit in.

>>33758999
That quite literally is what is said is going to happen in the beatific state

>>33759126
The sanctification/beatific vision is literally you going to a new earth and having your will entirely subsumed by Gods own, it’s quite literally him taking your will away so you can never choose anything but what he wants ever again.

“Oh your families in hell burning? Don’t worry I took all your ability to concieve sadness away so you’ll probably think they deserve it”

>>33759317
This is ESL babbling, leave the thread faggot

>>33759250
>”God loves us so much look!!”
>Complete torment on Earth
>”It’s actually your fault!”
I don’t want to be married to a diety who could have just made the workd perfect to start off with