>>33861598
I would largely be far better served becoming a serious muslim and all of a sudden im no longer KHV, im celibate for my future spouse. My timidity becomes a virtue in some sense, etc. But I can't deny , repping the wider religion in the west / being outwardly muslim is not fun and I HATE the idea of being a hypocrite, IE half in half out , but I've observed western muslims closely since wanting to explore the options , they are largely ALL hypocrites myself included (they do everything behind closed doors) or they rep typical high T warrior islam tryna be all macho and in control but their own daughters are sneaking out for dates kek, etc etc.

I don't want to live in cognitive dissonance either. "oh im a good boy Allah" while going on dates that are clearly pre-marital sex based.

I was in line at a place to eat , girl behind me , literally a hijabi , straight up orders a cold cut ham sandwich + not halal teriyaki chicken lmfao - I couldn't believe it. What is the point of that scarf if u gonna do stuff like that? Just take it off and live your life.

This is not from a place of judgement , this is from a place of wanting to live in congruence internally. It would be sooo much easier if I just doubled down on islam, but I've taken loans, worked at only haram jobs my entire career (hospitality), everything I do in interest is art/drawing which is haram, or watching movies etc etc. Muslims largely also have a harder finding acceptance here as well and blending in with westerners as I look hella hispanic / fairly white passing (think Hasan Piker facially)

I just want to be at peace internally but I can't reconcile the two sides. This is urgent because I might have to pick a lane soon for an arranged marriage - do I go balls out and just try to become an absolute player in my last year as a free man OR do I double down on piety/religion and basically finish what I started?

>>33861598
>For them it makes sense, they have the natural assets to reap the rewards of sin, I literally don't

But this line scares me, I'm basically admitting "yeah I would sin if I could" - and there's no virtue in a heart that has resentment or longing for what could have been / isn't fully committed to Allah.

Which makes me think , all pious effort is essentially a waste of time as long as I feel this way , ie my prayers are not accepted because my heart isn't really in it....

its tough.

First time I saw muslims asking advice here.

>>33861917

i would hardly call myself muslim - cultural muslim sure , ive seen it before and it happens from time to time

Damn, having an identity must be tough, glad I don't have to.

>>33861598
>islam is a refuge for undesireable men
>i'd leave it but i don't think i can "reap the rewards of sin"

this is bait but it doesn't change the fact that the middle east is a fucking snakepit

>>33861973
not bait sadly

>>33861598
>I'm torn between my muslim identity and my "liberal" identity and which lane to pick given the situation I'm in.
Stuck between 2 awful identities. Awesome. I don’t envy you one bit, anon. Especially if you are in the UK. I would just fully embrace radical anti-colonialism and decolonialism or something like that.

>>33862174
>I would just fully embrace radical anti-colonialism and decolonialism or something like that.

antifa is not a personality and average person hangs their hat on anon

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The Quran waswritten by an epileptic schizo that just made shit up whenever it was convenient for him. Mohamed is the type of nigger to try to confirm the Gospel and Torah in order to try to coopt their followers without actually having a very clear understanding of either. I've yet to see a muslim give an intelligent, well thought-out refutation of the Islamic dilemma. Just apostatize at this point.

>>33862351
>logposter makes a decent point
well i never..

>>33861598
Who said it has to be binary? Who says that to be Muslim, you must be Orthodox? You can love Allah, and you can Love the world around you OP. In fact you'll find that in loving the world around you, being kind, being the gentle, caring, patient and loving hand is the very spirit of Islam regardless of what outsiders believe.

You neednt be either or, just be the same OP that you are now, and you will have your answer. Be a good man, and know that is what you are

>>33862685
>Who says that to be Muslim, you must be Orthodox?

Kek , u mustn't be around many muslims , its fully expected you to go deeper. Western liberal muslims are the aberration , not the other way around. If u aren't the bearded dude and classic prototypical man they'll literally scoff at you

>>33861598
>I grew up in the west, I don't have any connection to my ethnic homeland
Your stinky religion is a connection, go back

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You can't be liberal and follow the Quran and not be a hypocrite.

There is no place for it as the Muslims demand total submission instead of compromise.

Hasan piker being your guy only makes it funnier as he is not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination. He's a tankie.

You know as many gay arabs as I do Jewish suicide bombers.
No Arab states have free speech.
No Arab respects autonomy outside of their bubble.
No Arab can get out of their zero sum games as they lack the capacity for nuance.

You can be paler than a ghost and it will never make you white.
You can virtue signal all you want but it will never change your intentions for subservience.

Not even a religious dude but it's the truth.

>>33863811
>No Arab states have free speech.
>No Arab respects autonomy outside of their bubble.
>No Arab can get out of their zero sum games as they lack the capacity for nuance.

This is actually a very good point and even reflecting on bin Salman's recent actions to modernize -- they still can't do it right without pissing off the clerics.

I suppose the truth is where would I rather live? Out here or somewhere in the middle east or my homeland? And the answer is here, I should integrate desu

>>33863869
Not that anon but yes, integrate, don't be a filthy fucking piece of shit sand munching rank smelling hairball religious fanatic like the rest of these foul beasts. Reject ALL of this. See the world for what it is and act, don't conform. If you go for arranged marriage you're just as bad as when you won't go for an arranged marriage - both things you do for pussy. Just like a good fucking Muslim you'll sit there and suck up to Allah with your disgusting meat flaps you call lips and lie and put up this face for everyone around you while in reality you're messed up, you're the biggest sinner, you're incompatible with western culture. What you do to women isn't right, you know this. And I say this as a man who's suffering right now after being cheated on by my 5 years girlfriend and been out in the market for over a year and got nothing, I'm overweight, nearly 30 and a student, I'm bottom of the barrel in terms of getting a girlfriend, I'm a failure within western culture, and yet, I'm still leagues better than a Muslim. Yes I choose the downsides of the western world over the Muslim one because at least here I'm being genuine with myself and my environment. Genuinely admitting that I'm just a fat chud and no one wants me but that's okay, at least I'm not faking anything and my personality is great, and I'm working on my weight, so one day it will happen for me, and I won't have to sacrifice my integrity for it like those filthy roleplayers

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>>33863869
I'm that anon, you must choose to become your past or transcend past it. You cannot be both otherwise you'll live in a perpetual state of denial and cognitive dissonance.

You might find a lot of good in understanding the various intricate dynamics that occur in Cults. Real cults. Fucked up cults. Ones who's abuse is ambient and control is cohesive.

Their weapon is shame. You will need to learn how to manage toxic shame as you strip away the barbaric and archaic upbringing you've endured in your childhood. Never stop growing, but respect that you alone aren't the only one that grows.
To accept freedom, to permit others to act on their own whims. That is critical to understand.

Jew here.
Your family and faith introduced you to the concept of God Almighty. That is what matters foremost. Do not succumb to temptations. Instead, pursue the deepest truths Islam can help you stay away from debauchery. Have faith in God. Serve God with sincerity.

Love your fellow human being who was created in God's image.
Become friends with Christians and Jews and pursue a united fellowship.
You can be social without compromising on your creed. Just don't become a hateful bigot.

If you're deeply concerned about finding a wife tell your father to find you a wife.

Not any of these anons, but would it be worth going down the progressive muslim route? Like acknowledging that hadiths are imperfect and going against some regressive cultural beliefs not really inherent but associated w/ islam (women must cover up, separation of religion and state etc etc)

I don't want to be the guy always suggesting middle-grounds but why isn't these options considered more often?

>>33864079
u got some issues dude lol , even though I don't like them , I wouldn't be so crass about it. I see you were cheated on by your GF, my condolences, at least you can be authentic as you said. Take some showers, lose some weight, and clean yourself up champ.

>>33864432
wise words , gonna save your post and look into toxic shame.

>>33864521
I actually agree, I have no desire to become a hedonist, but I'm tired of looking down cause a woman made eye contact kek. I want to be a healthy human being, leading with compassion and wisdom but I just don't care for the specifics of Islam anymore. I lean more zen Buddhist if anything / the personal power within to live in "Right action" and adhere to the noble truths. The wider concept of God, I really don't believe in a separate entity called God anymore, its all just connected.

>>33864574
> progressive
This is largely a woman invention and protected by secularism/laws in the west, in average muslim circles - make no mistake if you go spouting and feeling this shit , they quietly DO want to behead you or tell you to get lost. You'll be socially ostracized at minimum and essentially it becomes a lose-lose , this shit works with women because everyone still caters to them in places like NYC or Chicago maybe or big big cities in the west but outside of these spheres - it really doesn't exist. And even then you have to luck into the right groups to truly feel any degree of acceptance.

>>33863795
This and I'm saying this as someone who has nothing against you and sympathizes with your plight, OP. There is brewing conflict in the West which will boil over within our lifetimes, and being a liberal Muslim means that you'll have a target on your back no matter who wins, might as well embrace your religion/ethnic kin.

In regards to taking loans/art/other haram things you've done, isn't there some sort of penance you can do? I am unfamiliar with the ins and outs of the Islamic conception of sin but if you seriously decide to turn your life around now, isn't that worth something?

Regardless OP, you do whatever makes you feel at peace. It's your life m8. Also if you don't mind me asking what's your homeland and why do you hate people from there?

You should turn to jesus Christ as he is the ture god and the one who made you and cares for you, turn to him today anon

>>33864803
Baruch Hashem, son of Ishmael.
Never lose sight that we are made by a divine power that has blessed us with the gift of glorious life, and just as you say, we are all connected as part of that great creation.

Do not abandon your faith in God Himself. That is not good for you. Follow the "Middle Path" which both Buddha and the righteous of the children of Israel teach.

Never let a human break your bond with God. That is the work of the evil one.

>>33865499
>There is brewing conflict in the West which will boil over within our lifetimes, and being a liberal Muslim means that you'll have a target on your back no matter who wins

I wouldn't be a liberal muslim in this scenario. I'd be atheist or gladly flip to christian.

muslims will never win this conflict , they are loud and make some noise once in a while but we don't actually have real power, we have sympathy from current leftists with regards to palestine so this has bolstered the ego of some of the community into thinking they have power, they have very little - they don't understand that gaza transcends Islam now and is just a humanitarian cause. Muslims are even a minority among brown people which is a big mistake many muslims make thinking all brown people are on the same team as well.

I would rather die fighting for the place that gave me peace, gave me opportunity (even if I squandered some of it being religiously minded) then to fight for my supposed "kin"

> penance
Yes, theologically there's nothing technically preventing me. The mercy of god is massive, as long as I don't die in a bad state I'm all good. BUT here's the catch, even since childhood/teenhood - I have almost NEVER prayed 5X a day in full. I have adhd and honestly I take it as a sign , my heart was never really in it. That's the bare minimum in Islam

> homeland and why do you hate people from there?
can't do that sorry.

>>33865714
>gladly flip to christian.
even if my heart is not really in it either, I would do it purely for tribal purposes.

>>33861598
What are your thoughts on Muhammad getting Zutted?

>>33865537
>You should turn to jesus Christ as he is the ture god and the one who made you and cares for you, turn to him today anon

Nah I'd only do that for strategic purposes. I like Jesus a lot and he is the current exemplar, but I don't agree with the Man = God = Flesh thing that you've done. I am studying Jesus to grow my character but I'm not attached the religious interpretation of him.

>>33865573
>Do not abandon your faith in God Himself.Follow the "Middle Path"

alright , how? How do you define this middle path? I feel like even saying "praise Allah" is giving too much credit sometimes - I just want to feel grateful , but I don't know what to say it too anymore.

>>33865721
>What are your thoughts on Muhammad getting Zutted?

watched a video on it , seems like they can't explain it away kek , they were clearly humans with big penises and the translation for riding/mounting was in the correct sexual connotation.

Honestly seems like he took one for Abdullah so respect for that, but this is what makes sexual ethics in Islam so funny - you have to live like a prude , meanwhile the prophet himself has had bisexual adventures

bump

>>33861598
Just become two people

I was born and raised in a semi-religious Muslim household but I recently casually left it out of boredom and realizing I'm white. I dislike Arabs and having to clean after their mess, it's exhausting. My kin only converted in the 1400's because of Turks and even then most of us are very much non-religious compared to the rest of the Muslim world. Just assimilate to western culture like I did (assuming you are a second Gen citizen) and be normal and respectful to those around you and things will be simple. Wahhabis and Salafis have very little power in Canada/America, especially down south, they'll get zutted by whites if they tried to lol

>>33861598
we're sending you back so, no worries

>>33861598
> and honestly despise the people from there,
That's called self hatred, sherlock. No offense, but you're kind of a dumbass. "Despising" them is really just projection for your inability to love yourself. "They" haven't done shit to you to deserve the hate. But the mind creates mental gymnastics to release energy all the time.
>I'm not built like them , im short, I stutter, glasses (typical nerd / not a "real man" profile)
Hmm. Wonder if it has to do with the self hatred. No no, it couldn't possibly be that /s
> basically undesirable on the dating market which lets be honest is half the reason "the western culture" does anything at all
Why should women like you if *you* don't? Riddle me that.
> its hard to express yourself when you are still tied to them and in this economy who is moving out?
What are you doing to change that? What business are you working on?
>I would be turning myself over to the "devil" to literally get next to nothing out of it. For them it makes sense, they have the natural assets to reap the rewards of sin, I literally don't
No idea what you're talking about.

>>33871308
Lets deport all illegal immigrants in order of offense. So Caucasians first.

>>33871278
>I dislike Arabs and having to clean after their mess, it's exhausting.

100% with you on that , my ancestors also only converted around the 12-13th century as well (to my knowledge) I think because it was an invading force - it was either by force or they saw opportunities in the new regime change. But ultimately they flipped to survive/make a better life for themselves even if they convinced themselves of it religiously. All I'm doing is the same thing they did back then? Moving towards a better life/cleaner path. For them moving on from what I assume was paganism was a level up , for me its moving past organized monotheism

>>33871308
im a full fledged citizen , the day I go back , is the day the shit has reaally hit the fan or gone awry.

>>33871872
>That's called self hatred, sherlock.
Stop projecting, pattern recognition is not self hatred.
> "Despising" them is really just projection for your inability to love yourself. "They" haven't done shit to you to deserve the hate.

ooo a psych major must have entered the chat. You don't know me or my experiences - its not unwarranted/coming from nothing.

> Hmm. Wonder if it has to do with the self hatred. No no, it couldn't possibly be that /s

Absolutely these physical factors are the root and no matter which side I take, people are materialists no matter what these days , they forgive you for all slights if you are successful/loud and proud - and I'm working on it, but between just being myself and qualifying myself to people that just take my money when its donation time around Eid and STILL make me feel like shit. I'd rather not indulge them anymore. This is just a tiny part of course , as I explained , I'm always behind the 8-ball on prayer and other duties so I was never really in it in the first place. It's not just about external factors - its about being honest with myself and letting go a part of myself that was always floundering and focusing on what I can succeed at.

> Why should women like you if *you* don't? Riddle me that.
oh please, enough with the just world type analysis , I've seen absolutely miserable dudes but just cause they have the physical traits succeed just fine, some of my oldest friends are literal women haters get more than you can imagine , second in my position - women care about looks and authenticity, if anything by leaving - I'm choosing my authentic self and working towards expressing it.

> What are you doing to change that? What business are you working on?
Lots. None that I care to share.

>>33864803
>u got some issues dude lol , even though I don't like them , I wouldn't be so crass about it.
fair
but I was in a muslim hating mood that day
and It's not getting any better today, It's election day today in my country (Netherlands) and we gotta GITTT EM ALL OUUUUTTTTTT

>I see you were cheated on by your GF, my condolences, at least you can be authentic as you said. Take some showers, lose some weight, and clean yourself up champ.
Cheers bro. I'm doing my best truly. Authenticity really makes life so much easier so I wanted to reply to this part of your other post:

>>33872176
>if anything by leaving - I'm choosing my authentic self and working towards expressing it.
fully agree dude, be yourself just like the advice you gave me. you don't owe the muslims your faith, your life, your culture. I'm very similar to you, I was born Jewish and in Israel, I have 0 faith, 0 love for Israel (but no big hate), and so I've been around muslims enough been around jews enough, those religions aren't worth it. Christianity unironically is the coolest one because we have crusaders, we have jesus, we have cool fucking churches and cathedrals with nice reverberation and you can sing awesome songs in latin and feel like a badass. I mean, singing is really the only thing I take from religion. I love some of the muslim prayers like talama ashku gharami and inna fil jannati you should look them up, also the passover songs from Judaism, but nothing tops the Christian music, that shit slaps. Anyway, abandon religion, be yourself. You are yourself FIRST, religious/identity comes AFTER that. I know how oppressed you can be because I also came from a background where they tried to push religious zeal and nationalistic pride into me and they FAILED, so I'm a strong one, and I am reiterating what we agreed on that you should be yourself and be genuine. It's the most important thing. good luck Saiid al-Hussam al-Husseini ibn Jaad Ghaazi Ashraf Hamid

>>33872244
Do your folks know you left Judaism?

>>33871890
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR

>>33872176
>I've seen absolutely miserable dudes but just cause they have the physical traits succeed just fine
You have not seen absolutely miserable dudes succeed in long term, committed relationships. Not healthy ones, anyways. You're just coping.

>>33872244
>good luck Saiid al-Hussam al-Husseini ibn Jaad Ghaazi Ashraf Hamid

kek right back at ya Moshe, so you went into christianity then? No judgement and glad it worked for you but doesn't it feel off ? Like you just traded Jerseys for a sports team but you're still ultimately playing in the same conflict and challenges? Did you spend any time as a free agent ?

>>33873181
now youre just moving goalposts on what miserable is

>>33872176
>Stop projecting, pattern recognition is not self hatred.
Nah. Hating *all* your countrymen and thinking that doesn't include yourself is just cope. Maybe particular groups or particular people. But them all? You're 100% included because you are of them, dummy. And you wonder why you have identity issues, lol.
>Absolutely these physical factors are the root and no matter which side I take, people are materialists no matter what these days
Absolutely not. Fat, short, "ugly" dudes still get women because they don't allow a shitty mindset to keep them from being themselves, showing their charisma, style, and personality. *That* is what's attractive. Women will take an "ugly" guy with personality and charisma over a people pleasing "chad" who has no backbone every day of the week.
> I've seen absolutely miserable dudes but just cause they have the physical traits succeed just fine, some of my oldest friends are literal women haters get more than you can imagine , second in my position - women care about looks and authenticity, if anything by leaving - I'm choosing my authentic self and working towards expressing it.
Cope as fuck.
>Lots. None that I care to share.
So imaginary bullshit? Gotcha.