That would be fine with me. Nice that she cares about me. But we're not a hivemind

>>34096375
Would you actually do it?

>>34096391
If I agreed that the behaviours weren't beneficial and the person I was to marry wanted me to quit then I would have done it without being coerced

>>34096349
I wouldn't like it. If you want me to stop smoking and drinking, talk to me like a normal person. It turns sex into a reward and I don't like that at all, it would make me feel unwanted and I wouldn't be able to enjoy sex with you

>>34096349
The fact that you have to actually offer something like this means you are not worth anything

>>34096349
>How would you as a guy feel about it if your girl said that to you?
I would feel angry, misunderstood and alone. Especially if I had been attaching emotional sentiment to the sexual intimacy and I felt ‘closer’ to gf because of the oral. It would feel like punishment, and it would feel like I’m losing the gf’s respect or affection which would add to the mental stress I have and the reason I’d be smoking and drinking is precisely because im trying to numb and avoid stress to begin with. So your plan would backfire and only be like throwing oil on a fire, the addictions would grow stronger.

Maybe give your man permission to fail and some form of encouragement or let him know you accept him, flaws and all, and you believe in him and you will like him even if he fails 100 times in his fight against addiction.

Haha but no thats a crazy idea and there’s definitely 0% chance your man secretly waits and begs for someone, anyone, to say that to him. Total fairytale that cannot be real.

why would I care what my ex said?

>>34096707
Yeah, but that’s exactly it: you’re losing her respect because you keep doing what’s unacceptable in her eyes.

>>34096720
Losing respect is one thing and understandable. Holding parts of the relationship hostage in order to brute force or manipulate someone into a way that you demand is an even lower and more corrosive form of disrespect and that shouldn’t even need explained why that is. No one wants to date a punisher. If they wanted that theyd just date their own parent, teacher, or corrections officer.

>>34096349
>I'm thinking about stopping giving my man oral as an excuse to get him to quit smoking and drinking
>It's not a bad idea right?
Using sex for compliance in a relationship is abuse, full stop.

First, actually assess if his smoking and drinking are actually a problem. Is he going through a pack of butts or more a day? Is he drunk most weekdays? Or does he just like to go out for a beer and chuff a dart with the boys and you're just being an unreasonable bitch about it?
Next, if it actually is a problem and he's risking his health and finances, put on your big girl pants and have a talk with him. Don't threaten him or drop a straightforward ultimatum, but talk earnestly about how his excessive drinking and smoking is affecting his health and making him less attractive to you (again, if it actually is excessive and you're not overreacting because you're a stuck up bitch). Tell him you really can't see yourself with a partner who does these things long term and that you don't want to have to take care of him when his health starts failing.
Fun fact, we men hate it when women tell us what to do. Like any problem the motivation for change has to come from within, but you can help him find that motivation. And you sure as shit won't do it if you stop giving him blowjobs.

>>34096349
get him to read allen carr's book or have him go to addiction counseling. he has to want to quit, which requires him consciously changing his relationship with the substance. ultimatums don't work, and withholding sex will just make him hate you.

>>34096349
Quitting smoking and drinking is a desirable thing to do. But making sex transactional would catastrophic. Please don't do that.

>>34096739
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t accept withholding affection either, it’s wrong and shouldn’t happen in any relationship. I’m talking strictly about losing woman’s respect because of man’s autodestructive behaviour. And I think losing that respect - along with the trust - is already going to impact their relationship significantly. Wouldn’t you agree?

>>34096773
I wonder if people who do this even understand that it's abuse? Do they knowingly understand that withholding parts of the relationship in order to use fear to manipulate someone into dancing for them figuratively speaking counts for severe psychological abuse at worst or at best just tells everyone that they consider their partner to be a non-human, a dog who should have treats revoked to try and train them? And if they understand this is what they do, do they seriously considered themselves the only 'victim' or the 'good person'? Fuckin madness

>>34096815
>Wouldn’t you agree?
I agree 100%. I think in an ideal world, the partner would at least respect the addict's struggle, humanise it, accept it, and encourage and reassure the addict not during their successes, but especially their failures. Because that would actually take half of the stopping force addiction has over that person and their chances of recovery skyrockets.

Unfortunately that's just an ideal. One that is too much to ask of a romantic or sexual partner, something only a parent could have given. Take a wild guess what addicts most often lacked growing up kek

>>34096555
>>34096686
>>34096707
>>34096773
>>34096792
>>34096809
He's the first guy I've ever had that smokes daily. Giving oral sometimes makes me want to throw up as a person who has never smoked. I don't want to take a part of sex for hostage but isn't it the best for both of us?

>>34096847
>I don't want to take a part of sex for hostage but isn't it the best for both of us?
No, if that's the case what's best for both of you is to find your man who doesn't smoke and let him find an actually loving partner who has more patience to help him get over his addiction without using blowjobs like dog biscuits.
Look, being a daily smoker is objectively bad, but the thing about addiction is that the addict themselves needs to want to quit. It literally doesn't work any other way.

>>34096847
>He's the first guy I've ever had that smokes daily
And you have him the impression that you accepted that and accepted him when you knew what he was and said yes to dating him anyway.

>Giving oral sometimes makes me want to throw up as a person who has never smoked
And I'll guess you never admitted that and you kept that quiet because you don't want him to dislike you for disliking oral sex?

>I don't want to take a part of sex for hostage but isn't it the best for both of us?
Okay so now I know you are not a manipulator or being abusive, you're a face value sort of person and you feel it's only fair you get to back out of something you dislike because he gets to back out of something be dislikes (quitting smoking).

You need to have an honest conversation with him because you run the risk of being misunderstood as someone controlling and manipulative just as how ITT that was the initial impression you gave. Choose communication and honesty.

>>34096823
>I wonder if people who do this even understand that it's abuse?
Well, considering it's mostly women that do this, and considering women have poor capacity for empathy and self-reflection...

>>34096847
>>34096792 here
did you even read my fucking post or are you baiting? ultimatums don't work, and he needs to want to quit. tell him you will eventually leave if he doesn't quit, tell him you absolutely don't want to, tell him you want to help, tell him to seek counseling and help him find it, and under no circumstances do you withhold sex lest you want him to leave you instead. give it 3 months. if he fails to be clean, leave.

>>34096847
>She doesn't get it
>She can't get it
>Women

>>34096835
What addict usually lacks is the actual willingness to give up the substance/thing they’re addicted to. They demand acceptance and permission to fail but if they are not willing to give up, they need only the smallest reason to keep going. So basically they put boundaries on their partners but completely ignore their boundaries like they matter less than their own ones. Do you see the dynamic it creates between the partners?

>>34096871
>He needs to want to quit
Nta but just still gonna say it: I began to truly want to quit when pressure and expectation was off. The paradox was feeling like I was allowed to be an addict made my brain no longer care for the addiction and I let it die. It's true we have to want it, no one can make us want it. But they sure as shit can be helped in discovering they want that by having others help remove pressure or mental debris in the pit of their self doubt.

And we know this is what's needed and works because that's exactly why Allen Carr wrote his book or why ex-addicts bother to help others in AA meetings or why AA meetings exist to begin with. People require help to want to (want) it.

>>34096885
I don’t understand. Are you OP’s bf or just random person who happened to have the same issue?

>>34096885
im that anon
i was a smoker too, but i get it. however, she is not obligated to stay with someone that won't try. like i said, say you want to help, but also state "this is a dealbreaker for me, but i want try and help you work through it before i leave". pressure sucks, but leaving isn't a "consequence", it's a choice of the other party. withholding sex is just cruelty.

>>34096884
>So basically they put boundaries on their partners but completely ignore their boundaries like they matter less than their own ones. Do you see the dynamic it creates between the partners?

Yeah I do. It creates a feeling of powerlessness and emotional invisibility for the partner, makes them feel like the addiction matters more to the addict than the sanctity of their connection. Makes the partner sick with worry, worried of the financial cost, worried of the health risk, worried of what that all means if addict were to croak and die and leave them all alone to face the aftermath.

But let's not forget one fact of the matter: In many cases where relationships are concerned, the partner knew this about the addict, they absolutely knew and they showed no complaints or verbalised any conditions at the start before the relationship began. The addict felt accepted, and the relationship grows into a huge emotional investment for both parties. And then the mask comes off, then the partner tells the addict: "quit or I leave". Can you agree it's a fucked dynamic? I don't even think partners who do this are bad people or liars. Theyre the "I can fix him" types who naively thought true love conquers all yet they had no idea what addiction does to the mind.

>>34096914
True, that’s fucked up and in that case a partner who pretended it’s fine is wrong from the beginning. But in many cases they also hear their partners yapping about giving up so they continue the relationship under impression that it will be sorted out. In that case I don’t think it’s wrong to continue the relationship if the other parts of the person are accepted.

>>34096847
>I don't want to take a part of sex for hostage
Then don't.

If you actually don't enjoy performing oral then you shouldn't do it FOR THAT REASON. But don't ever try to use sex as currency, or to change someone's behaviour.

The one and only situation in which this might make sense is if smoking makes him taste so bad that you don't want to give oral any more, but you would enjoy it again if he quit smoking. But I don't think that's what you're suggesting.

>>34096857
So I have to suck it up and do something I really find gross? Okay then.

>>34096863
I've told him a couple of times already. He's always going to stop tommorow.

>>34096871
I probably just picked every person who replied to post to reply to.

>>34096938
>But in many cases they also hear their partners yapping about giving up so they continue the relationship under impression that it will be sorted out.
Very true and the exact nature of my own past issues I was guilty of this. So what I think truly keeps the shit dynamic going and what started it off was simply mutual cowardice, which I think is something that just happens because humans want to love and be loved. No big crime there. Problem is when both partners are in mutual denial and don't have the honest conversation, which is why that's important for OP to have instead of trying to strategize withdrawing affections. I also think OP shouldn't have to play parent to OP and be his AA counsellor lol. What she should do is encourage him at the least to check the book someone already recommended, maybe buy it for him as a gift. Or at least offer the names or numbers of AA circles in some tactful way.

>>34096947
>I've told him a couple of times already. He's always going to stop tommorow

Tomorrow doesn't mean tomorrow in addict language. Tomorrow means the ? Day of the ?? Month of the ??? Year at precisely ?:?? O'clock. The addict usually means it when they say they will give it up. What they don't mean is (when) will they give it up. They don't even know that answer themselves, so when someone else presses them for that answer, they vomit out and answer and then they fail their own answer and then they will feel like a liar and look like one too.

The truth is he doesn't know how to give it up, smoking and drinking is what the knows and he hasn't learned the alternatives to deal with coping mechanisms

>>34096954
But it was already mentioned few times ITT that he needs to want it on his own. Question is: does he want to give up?

>>34096987
>Question is: does he want to give up?
Who knows. What I do know is the answer be a Nes or a Yo. That's yes & no at the same time, makes no sense to non-addicts but if you've ever been an addict it's a when you know you know moment.

>>34096947
People don't materially change in major ways without a massive drive for it that comes from within them. If you tell him that this is really important to you (if it is) and he doesn't do it then just leave. If you stay then clearly it wasn't that important to you so let it go.

Staying in the hopes that you can "fix" him is a disaster. Making things that aren't actually that important to you a big deal is a disaster.

>>34096349
OP, could you please explain what, in your mind, is the connection between him not smoking and you giving blow jobs?

>>34096349
Dnr Total Noodlewhore Death

>>34096994
Problem is that for OP it is not you know you know moment. It’s literally yes or no to continue the relationship she’s not happy in kind of moment and I think she deserves at least a plan. Without withholding affection or keeping sexual part of relationship hostage thing ofc

>>34097024
>It’s literally yes or no to continue the relationship she’s not happy in kind of moment and I think she deserves at least a plan.

Should probably ask OP then. I’m willing to bet her answer will be a nes or yo too. Yes and no, Yes she wants to continue the relationship, No not the relationship as it is right now. (She waits for the day he stops smoking/drinking).

>>34096997
>this is the average male
every single male should be made to suck and take dick at least once in their lifetime

>>34097139
I have, as it happens. But I still don't see any logical connection between that and giving up smoking.

>>34097160
smoker dick tastes like shit

>>34096349
Use bj for good, when he doesn’t smoke or drink.

>>34097045
Would it be ok to end the relationship because he’s not willing to quit?

>>34096349
I think you're better off just asking him to clean up his act.
Although, if you're usually swallowing his loads, you do have a very fair point here. Those two habits will make his cum taste gross. Or so I've heard.

>>34096349
Psychologically, wouldn't the other way around be better?
I.e: Instead of taking something away from him to make him stop doing something, why not give him something if he does the correct thing?
Negative reinforcement is never great. I personally fear he would compensate the loss of the oral by smoking even more.

>>34097477
>Those two habits will make his cum taste gross. Or so I've heard.
You're sounding like nick fuentes right now.