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>>34419956
There's only one correct answer, and it's the same answer for everyone. Life should be lived for the sake of perfecting your character. Time and effort spent becoming more patient, more compassionate, more just, more honorable, more selfless and all around wiser is always well spent. All happiness is contained in the perfection of character, and all misery is contained in the disregard for character.

>>34419956
A competent body of online posts on an anonymous internet forum.

>>34420114
>Worship the one responsible for life being this way
It's always the same with your worthless pieces of retarded shit.
>>Worship the one who literally has a monopoly on GOODness
Oh right it's okay when GOD treats *everyone* like Lazarus for eternity, but not okay when 1 person does the same thing during our temporary lives....

>>34419956
Dedicate your life to yourself. Next question

>>34420807
No one said anything about worship. He said to improve your character and become a better person. If the idea of people being good is enough to trigger you like this, then you really do deserve to be unhappy and have no one to blame but yourself.

>>34419956
There's an exercise I used to discover this for myself.

The exercise is this: "Would you trade X for Y? What would it take for you to give up X?"
For example, pick something you value, like fame.
Would you trade fame for money? If given all the money you could ever want but nobody would ever remember you, ever, would you do it?
Use absurd extremes to simplify the question.

>If no
Then what would it take for you to give all fame and be forgotten forever?

>If yes
Then money becomes the new One Thing. What would it take for you to give up all money and be penniless forever? Your family? Your health? Perfect sex? A new Duke Nukem game?

These are impossible perfect magic deal trade scenarios and trying to cheat and have both defeats the purpose. No trading fame for money and then buying fame.
And no dismissing the question because it is an impossible and silly magical deal. It's a mental exercise.
The idea is to figure out what One Thing is most important to you.

Once you have that sorted, direct your ambition towards that One Thing.
If you decide that being loved is the most important thing in the world, then work towards being the most loveable you can be.
If you decide being healthy is the most important thing, yada yada yada.

The exercise will give you direction. Once you have direction, you hang everything else off that One Thing and other things fall into place.
Utilize your new perspective and strive to have all you do be in pursuit of that.

>>34420114
>Life should be lived for the sake of perfecting your character.
To what end?

I have done this. I have lived and have honed my character and strived towards perfection. Constantly improving.
And as the decades roll by I am increasingly aware that I am going to die and every single moment of my efforts towards perfecting my character will be erased and it will come to nothing.
It will result in nothing more than that a person once lived who had improved character.

I still strive because the empty pursuit of a temporary flash of sand art is still better than living an artless life.
I simply wish there was a worthy end to it all.
And yet embracing delusional faith in ephemeral reward is hardly the behavior of someone perfectly character. It's a quandary.

>>34420865
>To what end?
It's its own end. Goodness is valuable for its own sake.

>I have done this
You haven't. Perfected patience and selflessness always results in inner peace and abiding calm, and progress towards perfection always shows its value to you immediately. You wouldn't be pining for a reward at all if you had cultivated love for goodness itself, because you would already know that goodness is its own reward. That's not to say that you've made no progress at all, you've done important work up until now, but you aren't done and still have several plateaus to reach. If you keep trying, eventually you'll hit a point where you realize that your current concerns are entirely selfish, and that being an inspiration to others so that they may also improve themselves is more than enough reason to keep going.

>>34419956
Can't help, same here

>>34421897
>It's its own end. Goodness is valuable for its own sake.
I am fairly certain that you didn't understand the meaning of my question.
Yes, goodness has importance and utility but important for what? Utility for what?
Why is it good to perfect one's character?

In short, an improved character existing is better than it not ever having existed. But it is not and end unto itself because it is, in fact, not an end at all. It's an internal state that ceases to exist when you die. It is a lifetime of tireless effort that results in nothing.
That is why I compare it to sand art.
It's no less wonderful yet after it's over there is nothing remaining save fleeting imperfect memories.

>You haven't.
Your certainty in what I haven't lived informs me that, while I do not know what things you know, I know that you know less than you believe that you know.

>Perfected patience and selflessness always results in inner peace
I achieved inner peace in my early twenties. Then one day I was invited to dance, danced, and then wanted to dance again sometime. Desire being the antithesis of inner peace, I became less balanced. I determined that a life lived engaging in the healthy desires and struggles of life was more in keeping with the intention of existence than inner peace is. So I did not seek to return to that state.
You might believe that to be a flawed or less perfect path. In which case, I invite you to dance.

>You wouldn't be pining for a reward
I specifically stated that a reward wasn't the point. A better phrase would be a "hoping for a result".
And I am not "pining". I am questioning myself and the world. It might benefit you to be less certain yourself and question more.

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>>34421897
>>34423471
As for my question, a person with poor character who interacts with others as equally positive as someone else perfecting their character would have an equally positive impact on the world. Yet one would spend a lifetime struggle for perfection and the other merely affecting.
If the nature of one's character is internal, what is the goal of perfecting one's character?

>you aren't done
...well, obviously? I'm still living and will be wonderfully, Forever Incomplete.

>your current concerns are entirely selfish
Of course they are self-centered.
Dooming an individual to a pointless lifetime of toil that results in nothing seems rather cruel. The fact that individual is oneself does not change that fact. Being kind to people includes being kind to oneself. Self sacrifice should not extend beyond the point one would sacrifice another.
It is important to show concern for oneself and one's lifetime struggles.

>being an inspiration to others
This seems rather prideful and arrogant. Why would I assume others wish to be like me? Or that the path that brings me to where I am going is a path they should follow?

>so that they may also improve themselves
To what end?

Again, I proceed forward with improvement because it is the best course. As Ursula LeGuin pointed out, possessing wisdom and the power to act results only in the lessening of options and choice. The most wise and powerful truly have no freedom of choice.
So I continue the pointless improvement because there is no other good choice. Fortunately, my power remains rather limited so I am allowed a measure of freedom.

So I've got that going for me. Which is nice.

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Religion, if you like self-flagellation

>>34423471
>Yes, goodness has importance and utility but important for what? Utility for what?
It's more than utility, your goodness is also your happiness and well-being. Metaphysically speaking, goodness absolutely is an end because as a principle it's literally the end. As in, it's the beginning and end of all existence. Creation and goodness are the same principle. By making yourself good, you're participating in the only actuality in an ocean of potentialities.

>Your certainty in what I haven't lived informs me that, while I do not know what things you know, I know that you know less than you believe that you know.
My certainty is well founded, because if you had perfected your character you wouldn't be here asking the questions you're asking. You would already know, and you would already be happy and fulfilled. Perfection, happiness and wisdom all go hand in hand. A person cannot be happy until he's sufficiently perfected himself, and anyone who isn't happy hasn't perfected himself yet.

>It might benefit you to be less certain yourself and question more.
This is advice that you consider following yourself. Anyone who thinks he achieved perfect enlightenment in his early 20's most certainly didn't, and no one walks away from inner peace after finding it.

>Of course they are self-centered.
This is really the root of the issue, then. You have to learn how to be less selfish. Once you learn how to love goodness in and of itself more than yourself, you'll have a much clearer pathway towards lasting fulfillment.

>Why would I assume others wish to be like me?
For somebody with a perfected character, there is no "me". Perfection means self abnegation, or the destruction of the personality. There's nothing personal about justice, truth, compassion or wisdom. They're objective qualities that manifest the same way in every person. Everyone wants to be like the good man whether they know it or not, because goodness and happiness are synonymous.

>>34423548
>Creation and goodness are the same principle.
So what is created that doesn't evaporate upon my death?

>My certainty is well founded, because if you had perfected
No. Your certainty is founded on your misperception.
Allow me to show you:
>Life should be lived for the sake of perfecting your character.
>I have done this.
You could assume that by "done this" I was suggesting that I have "perfected my character". However, as perfection is virtually unattainable, that would be silly.
Another, more reasonable, interpretation of my words "I have done this" in response to you suggesting how life should be lived is that I have, in fact, lived my life for the sake of perfecting my character. Obviously.
Again, I urge you to occasionally question your own certainty from time to time.

>A person cannot be happy until he's sufficiently perfected himself
Well, now that's just absurdly silly to suggest. Toddlers are often happy.
Happiness is not a mat that sits on your doorstep. It isn't a prize on a shelf to be achieved. It's a rather lovely but temporary emotional state.

>Anyone who thinks he achieved perfect enlightenment in his early 20's most certainly didn't
Inner peace is distinct from perfect enlightenment. I certainly achieved some enlightenment. A smidge of enlightenment? A dollop of enlightenment.

>no one walks away from inner peace after finding it.
I didn't walk away from it. I danced away from it. It was undoubtedly the right decision not to return despite other decisions afterwards being more doubtful.
If you can't imagine why anyone would, I again invite you to dance sometime.

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>>34423548
>>34423635
>Once you learn how to love goodness in and of itself more than yourself
Can you use words to communicate why you imagine that's a good thing?

>you'll have a much clearer pathway towards lasting fulfillment.
What do you imagine "lasting fulfillment" looks like?
Why would improving for the sake of goodness itself and then dying be better than improving and hoping for a result that lasts longer than feeling fulfilled then dying?

>Perfection means self abnegation, or the destruction of the personality. There's nothing personal about justice, truth, compassion or wisdom. They're objective qualities that manifest the same way in every person. Everyone wants to be like the good man whether they know it or not, because goodness and happiness are synonymous.
I'm really thinking that you know a great deal less than you imagine you do.
It seems like you believe that the goal of an individual's existence is to cease to exist.

>>34423635
>So what is created that doesn't evaporate upon my death?
Cause and effect don't end with your death. The goodness that you brought into the world stays in the world, it influences others and motivates them towards being a good influence in their own way. The point is to leave the world better than when you came into it. Even if this weren't the case, being good ensures that you'll be happy for as long as you live. There's nothing lacking here and much to be grateful for, so I'm not sure what else you could possibly want.

>No. Your certainty is founded on your misperception.
I didn't misperceive or assume anything. I was pretty clear in saying that everything you've done up until now has been valuable and and important, but that there are several more plateaus to reach. "I've done this" implies that you're you've experienced what I'm talking about, but if you had experienced what I'm talking about you wouldn't be in a state of doubt or concern over the meaning of life. It's like if I said "In order to be happy you must travel 50 miles north" and you, having traveled 25 miles north, said "I've done this". You haven't yet, but you have begun, which is very good.

>Well, now that's just absurdly silly to suggest. Toddlers are often happy.
No, toddlers are never happy. Any happiness that depends upon a set of circumstances becomes misery the moment that those circumstances change. A toddler doesn't have the wisdom to suffer loss gracefully, children are devastated the moment they don't get their way when they're accustomed to a life of ease. Happiness, by definition, is independent of circumstance.

>Can you use words to communicate why you imagine that's a good thing?
It's self-evident. The question you're asking is the same as asking "Why is it just to be just?" or "Why is it wise to be wise?". But if you want something more, it's also because all of your own personal well-being and happiness depends on your goodness.

>>34423639
>It seems like you believe that the goal of an individual's existence is to cease to exist.
That's not what self abnegation means. It would be more accurate to say that the goal of an individual is to begin to exist. A life of self-indulgence isn't a real life and it's not real existence, because when you live only for your own gratification, the only thing you're participating in is illusory and unreal. Cravings, desires and attachments are all illusory, fleeting and false. They can't constitute a real life or a real existence. By contrast, when a man makes himself good he begins participating in something that's true, lasting and real.

By self I don't mean all consciousness, I mean the things that pertain exclusively to the self, which is to say vices. Selfishness, greed, anger, hatred, impatience, cruelty and so on. Self-centered qualities that emerge from self-cherishing are destructive and only arise from a lack of objectivity, while selfless qualities that emerge from renouncing the self are beneficial and arise from learning how to see things objectively. If you prefer we could invert this dichotomy and say that your real self is goodness and that evil is the false imaginary self, but the principle is the same in either case.

>>34424402
>I'm not sure what else you could possibly want.
A result instead of the hope for a result.
I was pretty clear on that.

>I didn't misperceive or assume anything. >>34423548
>because if you had perfected your character
So you're now simply claiming that you don't understand what the word "perfected", past tense, means?
For someone speaking to the nature of goodness, you're oddly not arguing in good faith. The fact that you seem intent on arguing and proving that you know more than I do about myself and the true nature of what is good, despite never questioning yourself, also suggests a few things about you.

>toddlers are never happy.
Perhaps you believe this because every toddler you've ever met has been in the same room as you and therefore was deeply unhappy.

>Happiness, by definition, is independent of circumstance.
What fucking dictionary are you using?

>>34424417
>which is to say vices.
Then consider saying the word "vices".
To care for oneself is not a vice.

You don't need to respond. You've thoroughly exposed yourself for exactly what you are and that you have less wisdom than a Bazooka Joe wrapper.
Good luck wasting your time in this world trying to lure someone else into interacting with you.

>>34424724
At no point did I argue. You asked questions, and I answered them out love and good will. If you don't want me to answer any more questions, then I'll just say that I hope you find happiness and a life of fulfillment.

>>34424733
>At no point did I argue.
>>34424402
>I didn't misperceive or assume anything.
>No, toddlers are never happy.
>>34424417
>That's not what self abnegation means.
Do tell.