The biggest problem is that I feel stuck. I think I want to leave, but I can’t seem to actually do it.

What’s holding me back:
>guilt — like I owe her something
>fear of her reaction (she doesn’t really accept the idea of a breakup)
>fear of how I’ll cope afterward
>feeling responsible for parts of her daily life
>feeling like I need to do the breakup “perfectly” and not hurt her too much

I’ve also realized that I’ve been hoping I could explain things in a way that would make her understand and accept it, but I’m starting to think that’s not realistic.

I feel very alone in how I see this situation. To me, things feel far beyond repair. Mentally, I feel like I’ve been “done” for months already. I don’t want to live a life where I’m constantly pulled into these kinds of conflicts.

When things have gotten bad in the past and I’ve tried to break up, she has reacted very strongly — crying, begging, and pressuring me to stay — and I end up backing down.

Has anyone been in a similar situation?
How did you actually go through with leaving?
And how did you deal with the guilt and fear?

>>34422402
>My partner strongly believes that “love is a choice”
If that's true, she surely isn't choosing to love you, specially when she throws everything at your face, blames you in everything, and go on these long rants wasting your time. She seems like a boss girl. Why would you want to be with a person like this? I don't blame you. I do believe love is a choice, but you cannot change the other person, if she is burning you out, it's better to cut off the losses. What kind of advice are you looking for, cause just saying "how to get out?" is a useless question. You very well know how to get out.

AI — slop — of the — worst — quality

>>34422428
I admit this partially. Ai has helped me in writing this. The problem isn't something that i could put to word by myself alone anymore. I'm way too burned up to sit down and do that. These things keep happening, and they stress me out, and i'm anxious about the next inevitable time it will happen. Constantly like walking on a minefield. My body has also worked abnormally for two years now. I get no wet dreams anymore. Semen builds up and mostly comes out when i take a shit.

I think about this and how insane this all is and try think of a solution. Try to think what i should say to her. How to do this fairly. And then it gets so overwhelming that i finally just stop thinking about it and just try to survive a week at a time.

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Just... go?

>>34422422
She clearly is often in a mentally altered state, and i also do feel responsible. I don't want to be with her but i don't want to hurt her anymore than is "necessary". I fear how she will take it. This is my first (and probably last relationship), we are both in our late 30s. I don't know how to go through with this and not backpedal. Maybe i should take her stuff to her apartment when she is away, but that would also seem radical.

>>34422460
I can't "just go". Every attempt always turns into hours of emotional pressure and I end up backing down in the end, always. I know it sounds simple from the outside, but it doesn’t feel simple when you’re inside it. And i can't just breakup with a message or a letter either cause that would feel like rotten thing to do after all this time.

>>34422463
>we are both in our late 30s
This is going to hurt, a lot. Delaying it will only make things worst, cause you clearly don't want to have a relationship with her, neither kids, and her fertility is almost over now. She will blame you, get angry, and maybe even try to mess with your life, any women that gets to this age childless has mental illness, it goes against their biology. By this age, my grandma had already birthed 7 or 8 children. It's not the same for a guy to be childless by their 30s, men can still have children past 90 years of age, women can't. She has just a few years to start trying, and even if she found a suitable partner right after you break up with her, there's still a process, like dating, marrying, when she finishes all of that, she probably won't be able to conceive, and even if she met a guy right now wanting to have unprotected sex with her, it would be a risk pregnancy. You fucked up by not breaking up with her before. Everyone in your social circle will turn on you, and I guess they aren't wrong in doing so. You were too much of a pussy to do it before, and you're still delaying it. If you didn't want to hurt her, you wouldn't have delayed, this will do much more damage than any words you can use to break up with her.

>>34422402
>In the past year, she has also started calling me a narcissist during arguments
Women will say this to any man who refuses to agree with her or comply with her demands. I have never met a good person who unironically uses the terms empath, narcissist, or gaslighting. Two of these things exist but the words are almost universally abused by the most self-absorbed, completely unaware ghouls on the planet.
Based on your description this woman externalizes all her problems. She does not look inward to evaluate her own behavior. She will continually find a way to foist her mistakes or shortcomings onto others. This mindset is completely in opposition to growth. I cannot say whether or not either of you are bad people. I can however say SHE will never change. The mechanism that allows her to is missing. If you want this to stop you must leave.

>>34422478
She has always vetoed it. I couldn't ever imagine doing something like that to someone. She has done it to me. At best things are well and at the end of the day i still feel like some sort of a dog on a leash. And she seems to be unable to take even i a miniscule amount of blame from why were are still here. Like i know i have fucked up. But it's not just me why we are here. And i often feel so alone in all of this, realizing whats going on but being unable to do anything helpfull. I've lost track on how many times i have said
>so why the fuck do you force this relationship to continue if i'm such a bad person?
Nothing comes out of it never. I've said that like 4 years now. Why does she want to keep me. Well, i know why, she says "i'm the love of her life and she doesn't want anyone else"

And i do often think what exactly should i do to pay something pack? Get a vasectomy and live the rest of my life alone? Is there a sum of money i can pay and be done with this? What should i do so i could at somepoint look back and think "well it was bad but at least i ended it in the most humane way i could". That i wouldn't just feel a heavy sense of guilt and regret until i finally end myself. That's what i also think, a lot. A lot of feelings of sadness, regret, guilt, that i life with every day.

>>34422504
>But it's not just me why we are here
I know, but you're the man. This relationship is all fucked up exactly because of that. She has all the masculine energy in this relationship, which inverted the positions. This would never going to work. The thing is, for those that are outside, they are not going to see as you see it. They are 100% going to blame you. Because as I said, you're the man, you are the one who controls the relationship, it's an unspoken rule. They are not going to believe you, like, you were not held at gun point to stay in this relationship... My advice: Break up with her, and record it for your own protection, and do it fast. If you live together, take all your shit from home before doing it, cause she is gonna get very, very aggressive, or cry, or make false accusations. Be prepared...

>>34422477
Then don't do anything?
Why even make a thread? You know the answer. Just leave her. She has no respect for you and she's mirroring argument tactics she sees on tiktok. The relationship is a humiliation ritual for you right now.
Go. The act of doing so is actually really easy. I get it'll be hard emotionally but as the relationship is now 3 things will happen:
1) you'll get broken down into a shell of your former self
2) you'll live an extremely chaotic life of nothing but drama, bitterness, and hatred
3) you'll murderer her
There's no repairing the relationship at this stage.

>>34422407
Trust me when I tell you that none of that will hurt as much as staying with someone who sucks the life out of you. I have friends in the same situation. I've watched the torment themselves for months, even years before they finally left. Their lives weren't easy after but the relief they felt was worth it. You're not going to live some kickass bachelor life after leaving but you will get the experience of being free from someone who, at this point, only serves to make your life harder with no respite.

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>There's no repairing the relationship at this stage.

>>34422402
get away from her, if you stay around a narcissist for too long you turn into one.

It's also really hard trying to figure out how to talk to her about this because even our understanding of the situation is radically different. It makes finding a solution together pretty much impossible.

From my perspective, the situation looks like this:
>we are two people caught in a very unhealthy dynamic that has developed over years
>both react strongly in this environment, and both of us contribute to the escalation of conflicts in different ways
>i see our arguments as something that involves two participants who are both struggling with stress, frustration, and emotional reactions that have grown more extreme over time
>i understand her reactions but i'm also dead tired of listening to them
>i distance myself emotionally when the conflict ramps up
>we should breakup

She sees the situation very differently. In her interpretation:
>the core problem is my personality, particularly what she believes to be narcissistic behavior on my part
>in her view the conflicts exist primarily because of my manipulation, my unwillingness to take responsibility, and my inability to recognize my own harmful behavior
>breaking up would essentially mean i'm betraying her and there will be dire consequences to that

Often when I try to talk about the situation as something that involves both of us, she experiences that as me denying responsibility. From her perspective, acknowledging that there are two sides to the dynamic feels like an attempt to shift blame away from myself. And this makes her angry, as does my emotional detachment that she feels is arrogance, coldness and narcissism. She is also frustrated that she still tries to make this work and i don't put the same amount of effort. I said that i cant do it anymore but she doesnt listen. During the past few months i have essentially stopped rebounding back to how i was as a boyfriend to her normally, after our conflicts. The best i can do right now is to pretend that i'm that person.

You sound really immature and she's probably somewhat in the right for browbeating you. Also she's right that love is a choice. Feelings come and go, what do you think happens when you get old.

You seem like your life has no purpose, you aren't interested in anything and you have no goals. At least if you get married you would create a family, but if you just break up with her you're not going to do anything with the extra time, all you're going to do is just find another girl to browbeat you.

On the other hand if you're just going to be in a relationship forever and never get married you should consider breaking up and becoming a monk.

>>34422402
>denying responsibility
>unwillingness to take responsibility
What is the thing you're meant to take responsibility for? What is she referring to? What makes it YOUR fault specifically?

>>34423775
She thinks i’m responsible for most of our problems.
The main things she points to are:
>lack of intimacy/sex
>my emotional withdrawal during conflicts
> not meeting her expectations as a partner
>my behavior during arguments

I don’t think those things are completely wrong. But we heavily disagree with why they are happening. I know I started withdrawing years ago instead of engaging, and that probably made things worse over time. I do take responsibility for my part.
But the issue is that responsibility feels very one-sided. When conflicts escalate into hours-long arguments, name-calling, or repeated accusations (like calling me a narcissist), those don’t really get acknowledged as part of the problem.

The dynamic ends up being:
>I’m expected to take responsibility and change
>but her behavior during conflicts isn’t really open for discussion

Most arguments turn into very long, one-sided monologues where she talks and I mostly listen. It doesn’t feel like a conversation where we’re trying to understand each other. It's more like being talked at until I eventually give in or apologize just to end it.
Over time that has just burned me out emotionally, which probably feeds into the withdrawal she criticizes. So it loops.
That’s why it feels stuck. It’s not that i think i think i have zero responsibility, it’s that i don’t feel like responsibility is shared in a balanced way.
At this point I don’t think taking more responsibility on my side is going to fix something that feels fundamentally one-sided. Or more like doing that will cost me mentally something that i don't want to be paying up. I feel like the only way this will work is for me to brainwash myself into seeing all this differently. Nobody should be demanded to do that.

>>34423458
I get where you’re coming from about love being a choice to some extent. I don’t disagree that long-term relationships require commitment and effort, not just feelings.

But (i think) there’s a difference between “working through difficulties” and staying in a situation that feels consistently harmful and draining. We were doing the first for years until i collapsed and now we are in the second state. And on top of that there have been stages of worsening in addition to that, on both sides. Clearly this is toxic. And i don't use that word lightly.

This isn’t about feelings simply “coming and going” over time. It’s about a deeply harmful dynamic where my attempts to disengage or calm things down are seen as more wrongdoing and then that escalates things further. As an example:

Sometimes things get so bad and stressful that i start to sweat and my heart rate goes up, i finally i just want to leave and go outside to calm down. Before that i have asked her to calm down many times. And then she physically prevents me from leaving the apartment in a situation where we both are clearly in a very bad state of mind. (Sometimes she has even tried to take my phone, keys or shoes away) Surely i don't have to say what that has sometimes lead to? So either i physically force my way out or be forced to stay in a deeply stressful situation. And if things go south, i am once again blamed for a situation where i actually tried to leave to calm down, and before that i had listened to her rant for hours.This doesn't happen often but it's clearly a thing, and there has been at least 20+ instances of it during the past few years.

That’s not something I think can be solved purely by deciding to “try harder.”

>>34423458

cont.

You’re also making some assumptions about me that aren’t really accurate. I’m not looking to jump into another relationship or “find another girl.” I'd much rather be alone and try to make peace with that then throw the die and see what happens in my next relationship.

All this has caused me to second guess my insanity and just what i actually even am. Let's play with the idea that i'm all the things she is constantly saying i am. Well in that case the correct thing to do would also just be alone and guard other humans from the cancer that i seem to be.

And i do have goals, and stuff that interests me, this situation is making those harder than i feel they should be. A lot of days i try to juggle
>mentally rebounding from something that just happened
>trying to figure this mess out
>dealing with all the negative thoughts and feelings processing all this is causing me
>being productive
>rest mentally by doing something i actually like

I manage that barely, and often think that life just shouldn't be this hard, constantly.

>>34422402
>My partner strongly believes that “love is a choice” and that you should always keep trying no matter what.

Your partner is correct. Too bad she doesn't listen to her own advice because if she did, she'd choose to consider your feelings and actually help you feel more at home with her.

>>34424332
>And then she physically prevents me from leaving the apartment in a situation where we both are clearly in a very bad state of mind. (Sometimes she has even tried to take my phone, keys or shoes away)

Ah so you're dating the narcissist then. She called you one because that's what real ones do, they "DARVO". (deny the attack, reverse victim with offender). It's a strategy so that if you deny it, they can deny it back. Keeps the waters nice and muddy and confusing. And I think she is fucked in the head because no sane person takes away keys or shoes to control someone else like an animal or a child like that.

>>34424377
I don't find much use in flinling accusations and fancy words (like she is doing) in our arguments, but i have read discussions on the internet. Some videos i have watched about examples of narcissistic rage fits sound just like how she sometimes talks to me. But i think that can be explained by her just being so tired from all of this. We struggled for years until things started to get that bad. It wasn't like that before.

Other words that have resonated with me are codepency, bpd and trauma bonding. I don't think she was like this before. I believe her when she says that it wasn't like this in her previous long relationship. I just feel it isn't narcissism. I think that the situation is just sick and we are both at our wits end. I'm also probably somewhat autistic so that's part of this also. I just shut down in conflicts, and try to reason with her. And that makes things worse. And i do also get how she might see my emotional distancing as narcissism. But i don't think a narcissist would struggle with this amount of guilt. I do feel a lot of guilt from all this.

>>34424399
A narcissist does these things by choice. A narcissist is not someone who distances or pursues due to emotions. A narcissist is someone who makes someone else do those things by use of manipulation.

For example, let's say you are doing something or want something I don't want you to do or want you to have. All that's needed is to throw a distraction to blind you. Like deliberately sabotaging something like money or security or inventing a problem out of thin air to then accuse you with it, which takes your focus off the thing I did not want you to have, and even makes you feel guilt if you tried to pursue it. That's how it's done, friend.

Anyway maybe she isn't a pathological NPD. But make no mistake, people can still be narcissistic, we all can, everyone is capable. All it takes is the right (or wrong) stressors. Narcissism is simply
"I don't care about how you feel, I want you to care how I feel."

That's narcissism. Everyone's felt it. Whether or not we act on it is a matter of discipline or maturity and it sounds like she isn't being mature at all.

Maybe she was better before, but clearly something knocked her down into a regression of immaturity. Any idea what that could be? Was there any big bad events inside or outside the relationship that occurred?

>>34424420
>Any idea what that could be?

Well, clearly one major factor has been the lack of physical closeness and sex. It has always been very important to her, and I understand that.

The problems started a few years into the relationship when I began studying for a new profession. During that time my mental health started declining due to stress and the fact that I had almost no time to myself. Our schedules didn’t align well, and after long days I was often completely exhausted, sometimes even falling asleep during dinner.

Around that time, our intimacy naturally decreased. It wasn’t a conscious choice from me, but it affected her deeply. Arguments about intimacy soon became more frequent and emotionally intense. Earlier on, those arguments could escalate badly. Over time, I changed how I reacted: instead of escalating, i started shutting down, withdrawing, and often just agreeing or taking the blame to calm things down. (At some point i finished school but things didn't go back to how they was.)

>>34424500
Yeah if it's autism then it's not a conscious thing to shut down emotionally or withdraw sexually. It's because autism means your emotions and your sensory perceptions are closely knit together. Means if you feel stress, you ain't gonna fuck. Because fucking is already an overwhelming thing for your body already and therefore your mind. So you will naturally wanna not do it. The more she pushes and stresses you out about it, the more worse it gets the less your body will feel stimulated or desire sex.
She is making the issue worse. But she probably doesn't know how this works if you've truly got autism.

From her PoV she is feeling insecure because she thinks you lost love or attraction for her, evidenced by your lack of wanting to fuck her. She may even be scared you've been cheating too. Because people suspect they're being cheated if their partner stops wanting to fuck them.

If you want the quick and easy solution to this, tonight when she crosses your path near the bedroom, just go and take a hold of her and start kissing the fuck out of her. Take her on the bed or over the bed, whether in top of her or behind, give her a good stabbing with your manhood and she will act like an angel after the deed.

Also. From those issues, soon followed another major problem: our living environment, which has gradually deteriorated over the years.

It started with her wanting us to put our trash in one of the two kitchen sinks. At the end of the day or two she made a trashbag and i took it out. Then the time between her making the trashbags got longer and longer. Sometimes she actually cleaned everything up but that has been years now, maybe 2 or 3.
Slowly it evolved into something much worse. Now there are multiple trash piles in the apartment, especially in the kitchen and bathroom. Papers and newspapers are scattered around. Both sinks (kitchen and bathroom have been unusable for months, and even basic maintenance (like fixing a broken bathroom light) feels impossible because the apartment is in such a state that we can’t realistically invite anyone in. I wash the dishes using a handwashingbowl and the shower facet. When i talk about cleaning it all up by myself, she gets angry. Says she must be the one to do it, and she might get a nervous breakdown if i did something to it.

I’ve adapted to functioning in this environment, but I feel a lot of shame and discomfort about it too. If I had a free choice, I would never live like this. At times, the apartment even feels psychologically oppressive.

She has at times reflected that this situation might be connected to a need for control in a relationship that felt uncertain to her, especially during the period when I was exhausted and emotionally withdrawn. I can understand that perspective, and I do feel deeply responsible. There is always talk of her cleaning the place when she has more time and energy, but work and our ongoing problems leave her drained. I understand that too, but this has been the pattern for a long time. And i'm tired of understanding this.

> Can we talk about this like adults?

> Can we agree on this?

https://www.choosingtherapy.com/fair-fighting-rules/

Decent place to make a first step I think

>>34424553
>Can we talk about this like adults?
Nah never say that in a heated discussion with a partner. The implication is you think you're the adult and you think they're not discussing like an adult, the message it reads as is "You are a child".

OP should unironically take the pent up frustration on her pussy. I am usually an intellectual, I usually don't like to be so crude and crass and tell other guys "bro go fuck her", this is the first time I've had to tell some other guy this:

But OP>>34424500
There is tension in your relationship, years worth. There's one of three ways to relieve this tension:
Break up, have a heartache and tears and pain
Keep arguing, keep fighting, keep building up resentment with no solution
Or
Fuck her, and fuck her hard. Take your woman by the hand, March her ass to the bedroom, or if you have the capability, scoop her up and carry her to the bedroom, and throw her on the bed and get on top of her like an animal and go to work on her, unleash all the tension down into her pussy. Remember if she says "stop" you stop. Kiss her as you begin, if she's kissing back wildly it means she wants it. Take her and have thunderous angry makeup sex. Let it all out that way

>>34424580
Seems to me you haven’t seen a pussy in a while since you’re so obsessed with it, am I right?

>>34424519
>>34424580

Why the hell would i want to have sex with a person who puts me through this?

My desire to do that needs at least that we are in some kind of good terms. Like today it's just been a barrage of words. When i left the apartment that changed to barrage of phone calls and messages.

If anything all this has made me almost asexual. Or more like i'm thinking surely there are better ways to live than stressing constantly about if my dick is working in a situation that is hostile to me. I often dream of living a simple life and just jacking off once a week, spending like a hour do that. You guys imagine that as someone who probably have a way more normal working sex drive. That would be me spending about 121 waking hours less around a thing that has just become a huge source of anxiety, stress and literal pain for me.

It's overrated. Nothing is worth the things i'm going through right now. And imagine if she got pregnant? Things can always be a little worse.

And doing something like having sex with her after all this just signals that all this has been okay. None of this is what i signed up for and when i make compromises with what kind of treatment i put up with, a small something falls of off me. And things have been falling off for years until i stopped to rebound like a half a year ago.

Yeah, it's clear to me that i should break up. If it was that easy i wouldn't be in this situation. And i wouldn't have to live with this almost constant slight pain. It's been with me for like 2 years now. Can you even process how bad things are if someone just stops having wet dreams cause of a mental bug? Libido is almost gone, most of the semen comes out when i take a shit. Imagine what my headstate could possibly be right now that i would much rather deal with that than to have sex with this person.

>>34424629
You don't have angry orgasms? You can't rechannel anger or frustration into horniness? Sex is a stress reliever, OP. It relieves stress and provides a MASSIVE payload of hormones for both partners. So yes, fucking will knock the shit out of the tension you have with her and her with you. There are emergency marriage crises therapies in parts of the world, where they lock the man and wife in a room with nothing but a bed, and they encourage them to argue and they leave them in there. And fast forward a few hours, the man and woman are fucking their brains out, and afterwards as if by magic the man and woman are holding hands, giggling like schoolchildren and suddenly the divorce has been called off.
Because it works. Get in there and go give her a right good plundering.

>>34424629
Also

Two things you need to confront:
>And doing something like having sex with her after all this just signals that all this has been okay
So you want to withhold affection to punish her?

>Imagine what my headstate could possibly be right now that i would much rather deal with that than to have sex with this person.

>This person
That person gave you almost a decade of her life. "This person". The fuck?

>>34424656
It’s not about punishing her. I just dont feel that kind of connection anymore.

Having sex when I feel "this disconnected" would be dishonest and just make things more confusing for both of us. And it feels like lying.

I didn't mean “this person” as disrespect, i'm just describing my current emotional distance.

The point is that I’ve been mentally out of this for a while, which is why I’m trying to figure out how to actually leave so the hurting can stop at somepoint. Like i'm just done with all this. This isn't healthy.

>>34424629
And get your hormones levels checked man, fuck sake. I am not a coomer or advocate for degenerate shit but if you're a man with testicles and all you can muster is, and I quote:

"I often dream of living a simple life and just jacking off once a week, spending like a hour do that."

It's called being hyposexual. Opposite of hypersexual. Both of them are sexual disorders. The key is balance and getting to a healthy middle ground. And I am not saying "hahaha low Test low test low test" or questioning your manhood. Truth is testosterone doesn't directly boost male sex drive. You're not less of a man for it but Jesus man, don't just sit on what is most likely a hormonal blockage, go to a doctor

>>34424670
>Having sex when I feel "this disconnected" would be dishonest and just make things more confusing for both of us. And it feels like lying.
It isn't lying, at all. Lies are linguistic, lies require words. Lying is not a physical action at all, sex is a physical action. You cannot lie in sex, penises and vaginas don't have brains and they don't talk.

And I know what you're getting at I know you are saying you don't want to behave an action that is contrary to how you mentally feel. But you also want resolution to the problems and I am giving you that resolution, I am telling you what can resolve conflict. And then your partner will become more receptive and give you what you want. Because maybe she also wants to give you what you want, but just like (you), she has these barriers stopping her and making her feel resentment as well, just like (you). There is a big barrier between you and all you need to do is punch through that barrier with one big fuck.

>>34424683
Is this how you resolve conflicts in your own relationship? Do you have any other conflict resolving related tips?

>>34424676
Testosterone has been slightly lower than it should probably be last time i had my bloodwork done. And i constantly sleep less than i should, about 5 hours a night. With how our daily routines are it's hard to sleep more.... And she thinks that 5 hours "should be enough" anyway. So then that's that.

The possible autism probably also raises the requirement for my minimum sleep needed for me to function properly...

>>34425086
Yeah and if it is autism that explains why you are extremely repelled by basic disputes in a relationship, because it's like taking sandpaper to your brain and shredding the shit out of it. No one likes disputes but for autists it's 1,000% more intense.

Look man between that and the hormonal low, maybe it's not such a good idea to personalize this all? Maybe it really could just be turned around with the right body care.

>>34425086
>>34425127
So here is the plan of action:
Go to a shrink, go get autism checked.
Go to a doctor go get your hormones back in order
Then get that woman in the bedroom and give her the business.
And if all goes well if things are clear skies, and you get all nice and giddy and feel well with her once this shit is cleared up, reach into a pocket and get that woman married to you. Nine years of partnership is x3 times longer than average waiting time for that ring. And believe me, it's not just your woman who gets resentful after having no ring after a 3 year wait, it's all women, every single one of them. The only women who claim the contrary are women who don't have a man.

Bump