I've had this sort of dependency on social validation all my life, even though I don't consider myself depressed and low self-esteem. I used to be, but over time I learned to accept myself and these years I'm normally quite content with being who I am. However, clearly, I did not accept myself 100% if I'm still afraid to be judged.I know that it shouldn't matter, but somehow it's always been extremely hard for me to internalize the truth that I can't debate my way out of everything. That people are going to dismiss, insult, make fun, and do other normal things. It's not so bad arguing one-on-one: it can be stressful too, I usually can continue the conversation without too much anxiety. But when it's me vs multiple people it's hell. Even if it so happens that multiple people disagree with me in a 4chan thread and all start collectively calling me retarded and making jokes about me to each other, I already start to feel bad, with dry throat, increased heartrate, and all that anxiety shit. Even though these are strangers on the internet whose opinions shouldn't matter. And if I ever were to be laughed at by multiple people IRL I'd fucking die of shame. I can feel empathy for other people when they get laughed at, but for myself it feels like some horrible, deeply unacceptable outcome. It's like getting cucked, no matter what you do, you're just going to look like a coping loser, the one who should've said better things to win the crowd over. For some reason I treat not being able to win the crowd as some form of extreme unacceptable weakness, like I should've known better.I think a part of it is my envy for the crowd's perceived feeling of unity. I have some childhood friends, but not people whom I talk to every single day, so that probably plays a part. And when I try to "find more friends" I always just find more acquaintances, it's hard to get close to people.I know it's all very pathetic. Have any of you had any success in dealing with anxiety like this?
>>34460953Addendum: 2k characters isn't really enough to fully explain this shit, so I'll elaborate some.The thing that helped for me accept myself in other areas is treating myself like you would treat someone you love, to be understanding of failures and weaknesses and try to reasonably improve whenever you can. But this specific scenario where a bunch of people laugh at me just feels so fundamentally unacceptable that whenever something similar to it happens, I pretty much freeze up.I recently realized I literally have NO scenario for what should do in a situation like this. If I try to push back, it feels like loser cope. If I try to ignore, it feels like loser cope. If I try to distract myself, it feels like loser cope. It's like this scenario shouldn't happen at all and I'm entering a bad timeline by letting it happen.I know some of you are going to advise I find some soulmates I can be comfortable around, since clearly the problem has something to do with desire to find like-minded people. And it feels good when I do find people that agree with me and are willing to listen to what I have to say, but like I said, it's hard to really become close friends with someone when you've exhausted your shared interest conversation topics. I also feel like this wouldn't really be addressing the core of the issue, i.e. learning to be resilient in face of a crowd. There are people who probably wouldn't win an argument against a mob, but they would at least maintain dignity in the face of its jeering. I don't know how I can achieve that or if it's possible for me to ever do it. One advice I heard was that consistently hitting the gym makes your nervous system a bit more resilient, making you feel more confident in altercations, even verbal ones, but I wanna hear some more input on this, as well as ways you people might have dealt with this shit.
>>34460953At this point, I am starting to think this is not some fixable flaw rather than an evolutionary trait. Some people are highly empathetic, majority are dicks. It's tribe vs tribe.I already know the usual answer is to "learn not to care", getting some mantra or some shit to dull feelings and extra mantras to ignore the issue altogether (aka acceptance). I hate it because it seems there's no real solution to it and you will just have to stick to feeling like shit forever.I don't even know. I am starting to hate living as a person.
>>34460975It's interesting you use the word empathetic, because I think my issue is that I might not be empathetic enough. Like I said, I can feel empathy towards unfortunate people who become lolcows and such, but I guess it's a condescending sort of empathy, where I still wouldn't wish it upon myself, like "well okay they're poor stupid people, but I shouldn't be stupid, it's me!" Which is why I get so anal about this scenario. Maybe there is some salvation in learning to become less judgemental. Although I don't consider myself very judgemental to begin with, but maybe I could become even less so with effort and controlling my thought patterns. Maybe it could help you too. I don't think mantras really help, there should be some conviction that one internalizes.
>>34460953Ok I cracked my knuckles, I'm at the keyboard. I am ready to pedantically disagree with you on every single point you make and work the crowd to join me in laughing at you for your post. Today is your downfall, OP.Nah I'm just fucking with you. I had the same exact fear for a very long time, and I did not find out about the root causes until my 30's. And those were:>Adhd (specifically, the rejection sensitive dysphoria aspect of the disorder - my mind exaggerating perceived criticisms, "making mountains out of mole hills".)>My school life. (It fucking sucked. Especially back in the 90's. My lack of focus meant teacher always singled me out, for failures or lack of attention. The entire class either laughing or staring at me. >My family life. (I have a belligerent father who, for some fucking reason, loved to yell and shout and berate me or other family even out in public whenever he is angry. Onlookers or bystanders would stare, and as a kid it was humiliating)Which all contributed to an extremely deep fear of being ostracized, shamed, ridiculed, rejected. A fear of being found out or exposed and when exposed, regarded as nothing but a laughing stock, a failure who is so inefficient people can't feel pity, just sardonic laughter. You say you experience dry throat and increased heart rate, that's a fight or flight response. And those trigger whenever you are exposed to something that reminds your body or the back of your mind to a dynamic where you really did get humiliated or abused in some way. Once I figured my own origins for it I stopped caring as much because I knew it was just my mind haunting me with old stories, so I stopped feeling as threatened by it. Anyway OP seeing as we're anonymous there's a chance I may have been one of those anons who mocked you for all we know, maybe in some thread long ago. Just in case I was, I am sorry. I shitpost to shitpost and vent my real life anger on here, for catharsis. You got this bro
>>34460987>>34460953>Bonus insightSchool bullying too. Whether it's physical or verbal bullying, some kids get damaged differently by it psychologically. For me when I had been verbally bullied, it wasn't even the bully I had cared about. Didn't feel scared by them, I felt humiliated by them, sure. Angered. But the part that truly hurt the most was watching the other kids, smiling, snorting, laughing, stifling a chuckle. When I had pain in my eyes, they had delight. And it hurt because some of those classmates of mine had been amicable before. Maybe not friends as such, but there had been some mutual respect. I didn't fuck with them, I'd work with them on assignments, the occasional hello and asking if they had a good Christmas over the holidays. Yet there they were, laughing and pointing when I was down. That's what really fucked me up, man.
>>34460987>Ok I cracked my knuckles, I'm at the keyboard. I am ready to pedantically disagree with you on every single point you make and work the crowd to join me in laughing at you for your post. Today is your downfall, OP.Kek I saw that massive wall of text and was so ready
>>34460987>>34461001Thanks for the thoughtful response. I've been suspecting ADHD in myself for quite some time due to other things, so "rejection sensitive dysphoria" might definitely be a contributing factor. And yes, I've been bullied too, I think this might be the trauma you're referring too, or at least a huge part of it. Thankfully, I haven't been bullied past grade school, I imagine that would've fucked me up even more. Being honest, I don't really think it's as simple as figuring out the source of your trauma and not caring as much, but it should help. Trauma is about projecting past circumstances/your abuser's worldview onto irrelevant current circumstances. It will probably be helpful to keep reminding myself that if something hurts, it hurts because I subconsciously revert back to the times I was bullied as a kid. And like I said earlier, observing your thought patterns to become less judgemental of people should make one less judgemental of oneself.
>>34461016>Kek I saw that massive wall of text and was so readyLmao I know, it's frustrating when it's the real deal. Some jackass making a huge essay that completely missed the core point of your sentiment and even twists your own words as if they're intentionally trying to be a jackass. Shits wild.>>34461017>Being honest, I don't really think it's as simple as figuring out the source of your trauma and not caring as much, but it should help.Nah you're right. You will always care about it, I should have elaborated a bit more. It's like, you will still care about it. The fear will still be with you but you gain an ability to put it out of your mind on command, that sort of thing. Rather than the fear keeping you on a leash, you put the fear on a leash instead. You gain control over it, but it's still there just less of a threat to your composure. When people say "just don't care", you gotta forgive them. They don't critically think, or they just aren't particularly in the mood to explain in depth.You already know, "just don't care".. it's bullshit advice, it doesn't work. Because it's the exact same as saying "just don't breathe." "Just don't feel hunger." "Just stop having an involuntary emotion". They completely miss the point that the emotions (fear/shame) those are involuntary. That's just true for everyone and they overlook that for some dumb reason. So yeah, "just don't care" is non-advice. The only advice that's similar to "just don't care" would be "just normalize it". Deliberately let yourself and allow yourself to be humiliated or mocked over and over until you go numb and stop feeling anything about it, or so the theory goes. I personally don't think it's a good strategy myself. Because it does have a good chance to work but it runs the risk of doing it to other people, because when a behaviour is normalized, people feel it's normal to behave that way themselves.
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