I really don't want to fall down the incel rabbit hole. However, I feel as if I am slipping. I don't hate women but I really struggle with the true sounding logic of people who are incels. So they will say something like:>You know women have it easier when it comes to dating and relationships right?And that to me sounds insanely true. I will apply it logically in my head and go "You know what, that sounds true!" I have observed that dating and relationships are far more easy for a woman to get into and therefore practice. So basically, I can't defend against their logic because it sounds fucking real to me. If I say "Haha, you are just retarded man. Thats all anti-woman propaganda!" It feels like I am just cope lying in my own face. I sincerely just want to know the fucking truth of it all. Is the game rigged? I unfortunately have never been in a relationship and I am 34. I don't blame anyone but myself but I just never could understand what I am missing. It feels like I don't have whatever spark attracts a woman to a man. To put it simply, I feel like I am having an insanely long streak of bad luck and there is no bad luck protection in real life.
Just buy some cocaine and go to the bar. White girls love cocaine and booze. Side note make sure you smell good and your hair ain’t greasy. Also don’t creepy weird. Weird is good. Also cocaine
>>34463800I don't go to bars anymore. I went to one in my town. I walked in, got hit in the face by a wall of cigarette smoke. Looked around and it was all 45+ year old women and dudes. I live in one of those "previously well off mill towns" but the factories and mills left so now its kind of run down. I wouldn't say its a bad area but it really feels like the demographic is "middle aged and cigarette addled"
>>34463795C is a childish whiny kid, not a man. This post describes him completely. Making this thread lap makes you look so pathetic
Just because incel stuff is ultimately propaganda, and no rarely aimed specifically at making people money, does not mean literally everything they say is total bullshit. A lot of men DO have a very hard time securing female attention on apps or being in situations where they can meet women more organically. A given young woman indeed has to do a lot less to garner romantic or sexual interest from some. The thing is, what conclusions do you build on that? That life is unfair? Well, it is! Do you feel the odds are not in your favor? That is more complicated because just like there are things that are especially challenging to men, women have their own issues, like dealing with the risk of assault, sexual shaming etc. As a man that is just easy not to think about because everyone naturally is drawn to what seems great and they don't have, rather than what you don't have and does not seem great, which we prefer to ignore. The issue with red pill stuff is that it feeds you some good stuff (hard to argue with advice to focus on and invest in yourself first if you're unhappy, for example, or remind guys that women find men with standards and self-respect sexier than slavish pleasers) but it is all within the context of men being cheated out of things, or just in general analysis of dating or gender dynamics that paint women in a harsh and unempathic light. While if you are a lonely man that really wants to connect with a woman, it will not actually serve your interests to become more cynical, more guarded, around women. And ironically some of the beliefs that women are naturally faithless, irresponsible/flaky, cold-hearted etc can make it harder, if you start believing them, to actually hold the women you know to standards and cut out the toxic ones (if they're all toxic, it's kind of misguided to expect anything right?). So this is what happens, you get drawn in because some of the stuff you hear resonates with you hugely, then the bleak narrative becomes your own.
>>34463803That’s the only bar I go to, I don’t smoke cigs but the people are good people and you’ll get the random girls that swing by.I’m from an old coal town so I know how the run down town life is. Maybe try going to more community type things. Not every woman is after looks, a decent girl looks for a good caring man. I hate public places and I cannot function with eye contact too well but I bagged a hot wife and we have a son and home together. It’s not as hard as it seems. I doubt you’re a hideous monstrosity either. There’s someone for everyone trust me
>>34463814>women have their own issues, like dealing with the risk of assaultI do kind of see what you mean but that particular statement never resonated with me. Other people have brought it up before. I don't believe women are being assaulted BROAD day on the first date like that. Maybe in other aspects yes but people make it sound like women are getting beaten first date, broad day.Also, I kind of agree with the rest of what you said but I think most men who fall down this line of thinking want to have more onus on themselves to do something. You could do ALL the looksmaxxing bullshit(I don't agree with looksmaxxing jaw breaking shit etc at all) and still not get a girlfriend. There is a critical X-Factor / RNG factor at play that people don't mention ever and it makes me upset. >OH I JUST HAPPENED TO MEET MY WIFE AT A BAKERY!Shit like that. That kind of happenstance bullshit is rare but people will make you think its common. I will speak from my own experience. I hate dating apps. They never work for me. I spent 60 bucks on the hinge+ subscription. Still zero matches. I don't want to fucking use dating apps but I am forced to do so because real life doesn't work for me either. So as a person that is determined, I now have no avenues to have "try" anymore. That is where the frustration comes from. I don't even have the option to try. The last thing I had considered was doing extreme shit like just walking into a grocery store and yapping / pestering any woman who is around my age. Because to me, that is the last resort. last resort is fucking bugging people IRL randomly. What a time to be alive.
>>34463834>that particular statement never resonated with me.Understandable, but realize this is also probably because you have never experienced the other side so it makes sense that you don't really understand (right away). If a woman fears being beaten up in broad daylight then that is because of personal past/issues. But that doesn't mean there aren't guys that are fine playing the gentleman during a date in broad daylight and then showing you a wholly different side of themselves once they gained your trust and are drunk and alone with you. So your job is still, during that date, to gauge how much you trust this person to maybe be alone with them. Or less sinister: the risk is not the guy raping you, but pretending to fall in love with you only to ghost you after sex. Long story short, women have their own ways in which they are vulnerable or have a more challenging situation that (straight) men are more exempt from. So if you want to judge who has it worse, that gets quite complex because ideally you would want to list ALL the ways in which being male has disadvantages and ALL the ways in which being female does and then start comparing apples and oranges. Or you can accept that you both have your own struggles and it is hard to judge the other side without lived experiene from that pov.I agree that I think a lot of men into this are drawn to the promise of (more) control and more agency. The thing is all the big things in life are not under our control. That can be very daunting, frustrating, maddening etc but it is not to be avoided.
>>34463834>>34463843Even if you theoretically could single-handedly secure your ideal gf, she could still get hit by a truck a week later. I know this probably seems like a hyperbole but my point is more that powerlessness is a spectrum and in some level always there. You can fight that or try to focus on what you do have (some) control over. There is a difference between investing in yourself because you want to, it feels good, it raises your self-respect etc or seeing it as investment that owes you a pay out at some point, because the latter sets you up for disappointment and a feeling of defeat. While even beautiful women really cannot will a man they are in love with to return their feelings. Again the big things just are not under our control and that is frustrating but also makes it all the more miraculous when somehow it does work out.I get your outrage over the bakery thing but I think the intended message is not "just you wait and it'll happen" but more that you never really know, so theorizing and getting depressed over not seeing how things would change is pointless, as that's how it works, you don't see change coming and it often comes in a way you had not realized was possible before it happened.Anyway while you are obviously right that there just are much less 'natural' options for meeting someone, there's an area between the supermarket and a dating app, like a music festival, a singles vacation or speed dating event, a place you go for hobbies or volunteering where women hang out. Tagging along with friends to their outings where you will meet people new to you is imo for many the most realistic way to broaden your pool. And if you don't have any friends like that, making them and then meeting someone through them can be more achievable than going from friendless and dateless to a relationship.
>>34463843I get it. I look at factors of "How easy is it to engage with mechanics" of whatever. So to me, women do have it more easy because they can easily ENGAGE with the mechanics of dating and even learn and gain experience with it. I can't do that. I am 34 and gimped dating wise. If I ever meet a woman and get to get on a few dates, I am going to have to beg her to be patient with me because I am so grossly behind as far as experience. Its realizations like this that really unnerve me. I am quite literally not at the level I should be at for people my age. It feels as if I were inschool and being skipped ahead grade levels even though I am clearly not ready. So the expectation of my experience goes up but I clearly don't have it. I don't believe I am bitter or resentful towards women. I just want the similar opportunity to develop. Especially since I know that no one will be sympathetic to people who struggle like me. I guess I can't blame them because it is abnormal to be this way.
>>34463847>Anyway while you are obviously right that there just are much less 'natural' options for meeting someone, there's an area between the supermarket and a dating app, like a music festival, a singles vacation or speed dating event, a place you go for hobbies or volunteering where women hang out. Tagging along with friends to their outings where you will meet people new to you is imo for many the most realistic way to broaden your pool. And if you don't have any friends like that, making them and then meeting someone through them can be more achievable than going from friendless and dateless to a relationship.I see what you mean. I guess I could look more into that. I sort of strayed away from things like what you mentioned such as festivals etc. Mostly because of a statement I saw on /r9k/ oddly. It said something along the lines of "Women never do random event shit alone." Basically meaning that women never go to music festivals alone or wine tastings or hikes or whatever. So if you are a person like me who actually kind of prefers to do things alone like go to a faire, you will be a freak because people will think "What the fuck is this guy doing here alone?" That is how I interpret it at least. But it can't hurt to try I guess. Its another case of that statement being "basically correct" though because what they mentioned is what I also perceived.
>>34463852Eh, I don't think it's that abnormal at all, nor do I think people are unsympathetic. I am trying to show a bigger perspective and where you would be wrong to buy into half the stuff in the red pill world, but it's not because I don't feel sympathetic to your feelings or find them hard to understand.The thing is just this: does it actually serve you in any way if you are right and men just have it much harder than women? Because it sounds like that would just deepen your feelings of despair and not actually give you anything. Your mindset matters a lot. If you run into someone drunk and horny on the street tomorrow night, they can't smell that you are this inexperienced. You feel exposed in a negative way but it is just your negative self-perception that makes it hard to believe others could disagree and see you differently.At 34 you have a good amount of lived experience - even if not with dating or women specifically - and any life skills or qualities at all, including stuff you probably don't associate with dating like patience and having a calm(er) presence, you can also bring into any dating life. Yes you miss out on experiences but that does not mean you were frozen in time and did not develop yourself. Simultaneously, plenty of people get caught up in dysfunctional relationships that leaves them with baggage they have to actively try to process and unlearn in order to have good relationships afterwards - experience is not only positive. I hope this somewhat gets across my main point that you are depressing yourself with takes on yourself or your options that are too black and white and say more about how you feel now than anything objective.
>>34463858I would agree that it is rare for women to go alone, but if you are also in a group, if anything chatting up a group of women as a group of men is easier. When you approach a woman, whether on the street or on an app, she is in a defensive position in the sense that the onus is on her to 1. decide if she likes you or not and 2. let her behavior reflect her (lack of) interest in a way that makes her not lead you on if she can't back it up with anything. Add to that that on dating apps, women typically at least appear to have a big selection of potential men, and you get the "when even remotely in doubt, it's a no" attitude. The good thing about meeting someone in person is that you are not a verified suitor at all, you are just a random man, and without any pressure to make her mind up fast about you, it is a lot easier for you to impress her over time. Besides everyone looks more attractive laughing and having a good time with their friends vs being nervous and cramped on a first date. So it allows you to show off any attractive sides you have - playfulness, wit, warmth, enthusiasm, being knowledgeable, a good listener, up for anything, you name it - in an environment with no direct pressure and without making it obvious you are hoping to impress her. It is a much easier set up than either dating apps or being one or one with someone you are interested in, but many of the guys despairing over this are generally very introverted and have many solo hobbies, so they have a hard time envisioning how to end up in these situations in the first place. That is why you need friends to tag along with.
Demoralization campaign thread
>>34463795>Mathematician say 1 + 1 = 2>Guys, I feel like I'm falling down the mathematician rabbit hole.
>>34463795>I sincerely just want to know the fucking truth of it all. Is the game rigged?If by rigged you mean people, especially women are almost exclusively attracted to barely mutable physical attributes — then yeah the game is rigged.
>>34463795Don’t actively hate women, as in you’re 24/7 seething about their natureBecome indifferent to them, that way you don’t seetheThe knowledge stone be used as wisdom when you meet women, simply as a cautionary guide to save yourself as you are the most importantly thing to yourselfAnd use all of that energy, that would have been wasted seething, into whatever else you want to do, and foggeaboutit
Incel means many things now
>>34463795figure it out, person.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FgxacX72snA
