File: 1752047670386573.png (1.3 MB, 1311x1120)

1.3 MB PNG

>cartoon villains aren't realistic

>>5113671
Those are some long noses

Why are conservacucks comically evil? They rally on subduing more extreme positions of their opponents but when getting power just give everyone explosive diarrhea.

>>5113683
To make retards like you vote for civil disarmament and replacement migration balkanizing and further chaining the working class the next cycle. There is only one actual party in american politics.

>>5113683
>never do any of the things people actually want like deporting all the jeets
>always do some stupid gay shit that nobody except some billionare faggot asked for

>>5113683
>>5113687
You know that heat survey or w/e a lot of conservatives like throwing around recently? It really says a lot in ways they don't likely intend. They wield it as some gotcha against their opponents, yet it really does speak to their priorities. Of the selfishness and smallness of their minds in buying so hard into zero sum for everything.

>>5113692
The people that want white genocide to end and think modern liberal ideology is suicidal horseshit, who you have been arguing with, tend to be environmentalist if they aren’t fully compromised by what epstein was actually doing with /pol/ (destroying the peoples right wing by throwing in flat earth, nordicism, and climate change denial at every opportunity).

That heat survey means what they say it means. They say that a liberal would kill a human being to save some number of animals or is a narcissist who responds as a cartoonish all-appeasing persona on every personality test (the latter is the most common)

>>5113702
this. you mistake zionist neocons from weird pseudo-christian cults like mormonism and protestantism for the purestrain 4chan alt right full of pagans, gnostics, atheists, and deists.

it is multiple ideologies and the line is drawn with religion.

>>5113702
>liberal would kill a human being to save some number of animals
When people get asked abstract questions, most don't respond to the question in the same abstract way, they don't perceive the question in a vacuum. When someone gets asked "would you kill a human to save a bunch of animals" they likely immediately build a hypothetical situation in their head, intuitively, in which you would have to kill a human to save a bunch of animals. In this situation they also usually make up a motive for the person to kill the animals. Most liberals would likely think of a poacher trying to hunt an endangered species. A situation where the person is objectively evil and deserves to get killed. While a conservative would be more familiar with stuff like rural lifestyle so the first thing they will think of is a person hunting an animal for food, slaughtering cattle for food, hunting down species that threaten cattle or crops and such, things where the person killing an animal is morally justified to do such.

File: Thomas_Hill_-_Indian_by_a(...).jpg (1.15 MB, 2947x1946)

1.15 MB JPG

>>5113683
>>5113703
Protestantism preemptively kneecapped environmentalism in America since Protestants actively refuse to accept that there can be sanctity in anything outside of their absurd religious texts, and the adoration of nature in particular is denounced as being Pagan. The influence of Marxist materialism on the American Left doesn't help either. The end result is that environmentalism can only be promoted through the lens of cold, material pragmatism, which is unconvincing to Republicans who only care about Line Go Up™.

Of course, I'm oversimplifying and exaggerating for the sake of making a point. Reverence of nature for it's own sake isn't totally absent from the American soul, which is why there has been some meaningful progress when it comes to conservation. But it's an uphill battle, especially when Republicans are in power.

>>5113683
Because their entire platform since the Obama years has been "do the opposite of Democrats". A Black man being president completely mindbroke them and they still haven't recovered. They don't give a shit if they are tearing down institutions. If it makes the libtards mad, then mission accomplished.

This is how the country will fall btw. We're going to go through several more decades of 1000 cuts where everything gets a little more expensive each year and the faith in our institutions wanes a little more. Then there will probably be some explosive powder keg event but I'm hoping I'll be dead before it gets to that point.

>>5113702
Conservatives like claim that it shows conservatives have an in group bias and liberals have an out group bias, but that’s not what it shows, what it REALLY shows is that the average liberal believes that all animals and humans deserve moral consideration, and that conservatives believe that only their closest in group deserve that.

>>5113714
Thing is that "Leftists prioritize out-groups over their in-group" is at least somewhat true but trying to make that point by spamming a graph that doesn't actually show that is retarded.

File: 1738202879760138.jpg (15 KB, 288x450)

15 KB JPG

>>5113702
>white genocide

have sex

>>5113671
Unironically it's going to help the ecosystem more

>>5113719
They literally stated it was their goal and bragged about it, and often. Get over with it. The foreign tribe in your country wants power and you have it as longs you’re not a minority. Stop trusting people who sell your military tech to your enemies and bomb your ships while begging you to fight their wars.

>>5113717
You don’t understand it at all. It means from your present position, how far does your unconditional concern for right and wrong extend?

someone who did not select all mammals will not say, do nothing to save one, or support animal torture. It means that there are some mammals they will never care about, like rats, so they can not select “all mammals”. They won’t select “all nations” because there are some nations that want their people exterminated, so they can not honestly say all people in all nations receive unconditional moral concern. “but i wouldnt mind if all the muslim extremists died horribly” disqualifies you from selecting 9 even if you care deeply about everyone else.

It is literally just friend good, enemy get fucked and a survey of how far away people are from their unforgivable enemies.

File: 41467_2019_12227_Fig4_HTML.jpg (47 KB, 765x471)

47 KB JPG

>>5113724
This is fig 4, from where participants rated each categories importance.

Liberals at the extreme are more likely to rate nonhumans as morally more important than humans.

Take both parts of the study and it shows that liberals just dont believe they have enemies everywhere, and right and wrong as so abstract that it is possible, if not necessary, for humans to be less important than animals.

Conservatives value humanity first and foremost and are aware of where their enemies are.

>>5113727
This is not what the actual study says. If you are in one ring you are including every smaller ring in your sphere of moral consideration.

>>5113729
That was fig 5. If you would not care if every muslim terrorist died, you cant select circle 9 even if you care about everyone else and even things beyond. All means all. Fig 5 therefore shows the nearest enemy or moral non-things location.

Fig 4 shows relative moral concern which is how people actually think. A very liberal person as labeled in this study is likely to agree that it can be right to kill a human to save some amount of animals.

File: same shit.jpg (1.54 MB, 2048x2730)

1.54 MB JPG

>>5113683
anyone acting like murrikan politics is a two-party system is either utterly ignorant or a zionist. It's all just a string of politicians making something worse without undoing what the previous one did, deliberately.

government employees losing their jobs is always good, delete all these useless bureaucrats

>>5113683
Is the party where consequences don't reach you: get pay from big corpos to look the other way? Cool as long as you say you hate browns and trans. You can do any crime and they will still forgive you as long as you repeat those magic words.

>>5114058
Bold of you to think there is a party that isnt like this in the US

Just swap self preservation for self hatred

>>5114061
No, because that's cancel culture: you do a controversial thing, like destroying a forest, so you get bad press. But if you get cancelled all you have to do is say "ehem, I hate gays and browns, yes?" And then conservatives just ignore whatever thing you did, because you said the magic words, and then say "you see, liberals eat each other".

>>5114062
>no, because *nonsense*
im glad we agree all us politicians would gladly light the earth on fire and keep up the contradictory performative ideology and there is no voting your way out of this mess

thank you for agreeing that your government is a hostile foreign agent that serves multinational corporations and both parties are in fact pedophile clubs compromised by global corporatocracy. really. it was nice to find someone sane and mature for once.

>>5113671
>/pol/ thread
unironically kill yourself

>>5113953
>>5114061
>>5114068
It's funny how often I've been seeing this in recent months
>bad thing under Biden
>"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE DEMONRATS THEY'RE DESTROYING THE WORLD FOR THE GLOBOHOMO OR JEWS OR WHATEVER"

>bad thing under Trump
>"Bro it's both parties they're both controlled by the same interests don't you see man"
No doubt it's Trumpies that don't want to directly criticize their pedophilic cult leader so they use the "both sides" copout. I rarely remember seeing it under Biden. It was always direct attacks on him.

>>5114186
>bla bla bla red blue other side bla bla bla
Shut the fuck up amerifat

Biden went around federally delisting species whenever lobbyists asked and steadily approved requests to log old growth BLM land DESPITE his performative virtue signaling about how important it was. He also supplied israel with any arms they asked for at the height of the gaza genocide and fueled mutual extermination in the ukraine war while yammering about “our values” which are, according to US politicians, best expressed as most of a countries youth dying for a subjectively important political system and being replaced with easily manipulated labor scabs.
All US polticians are bad. Yes, all of them. They are even all pedos, between the epsteins and the podestas. Trump fucked kids. Hunter biden fucked kids. Joe biden fucked kids. The clintons fucked kids. Obama spent an obscene sum on “hotdogs and pizza” that would have fed a small army but would also be a realistic sum for trafficking prostitutes of questionable age. Your country is a lying shithole ruled by lying pedophiles and over half of it is third world. There is no good side or bad side or cool side or uncool side in american politics. Every single politician you have is literally fucking evil and rapes the world, children, and the office staff whenever they feel like it.

You can go now. Not to the polls. You should know those don’t do anything. The next democrat will keep the national parks up for sale while… taxing carbon, subsidizing $40k EVs with government accessible remote control, or some useless faggot shit.

>>5114186
>be democrat
>bomb natural gas pipeline to own da homophobes in russia
>ocean poisoned
>be republican
>start war in ecologically fragile gulf to own da libs or whatever
>ocean poisoned
>oh wait they’re taking over the global energy market while playing bad cop good cop and literally destroying the ecosystem you depend on for food
>so they can sell you a petrochemical derived replacement
>as a subscription
>and you fell for it

>>5114194
>"amerifat"
>Biden went
Stopped reading there. I don't listen to non-American's (i.e. not real people) opinions of what's going on in my country. I don't do it for your irrelevant turd world shithole country, don't do it for mine.

>>5114220
Most of the countries you bombed were, before american intervention, more intelligent and civilized on average than the american south and rural midwest. Including iraq, syria, libya, iran, and venezuela.

File: 351px-Flag_of_the_Faroe_I(...).png (740 B, 351x256)

740 B PNG

Not my country, not my continent, even. Thus, not my problem. Get fucked, burgers

>>5114220
>uuuuh why do you as a non american care about america?
might be because of the hundred+ years of consistent warmongering, proxy wars and the american military base 100 feet from me, cletus.
we are currently living through the last death convulsion of your rotten empire. rot in hell with it.

>>5114194
>He also supplied israel with any arms they asked for at the height of the gaza genocide and fueled mutual extermination in the ukraine war
ultra based. TMD. TZD.

>>5113727
Conservatives value humanity first and foremost and are aware of where their enemies are.
*cough* Israel *cough*
>>5113702
>>5113724
Why do you support "white genocide" by being completely unfuckable.

dismantling the beauty and sancity of our natural lands to appease corpos, what a fucking leadhead

>>5114254
buddy you’re malding at someone who pointed out that liberals do in fact believe what they have said often, that they’d kill farmers to save cows

liberal: servant of the godless and arbitrary abstract value that they think will make the most people like them at the moment
conservative: FORWARD, FOR THE IMPERIUM OF MAN… woah not that man he’s kinda fruity. not that one either he’s a fucking moron. kill those ones.

>>5114287
terminally online freak.
they wont do that. like you wont do shit. americans do NOTHING but virtue signal. your entire retarded country has been huffing and puffing for the past two decades. civil war any second now, we´re gonna use those arms we got from the constitution is swear.
you´ll do nothing, ever. does not matter if its red or blue, your goverment will keep causing turmoil across the globe, shitting literally everything up until it collapses under its own weight. and you retards, conservatives and liberals alike, will sit there and threaten each other over twitter, each virtue signaling to their own ingroup about BULLSHIT MEANINGLESS TRIPE like some tranny doing a beer ad or some starlet being canceled because of her traditionalist statements or some other inconsequential horseshit.
you will sit there, fat and (mostly) content.

>>5114473
>liberal tries to say moral hierarchy study shows conservatives are psychopaths and liberals are human
>anon swoops in with more figures from the study and an explanation of how it works
>it turns out liberals are misconfigured systems that actively fight against their own species survival and prosperity and think it is morally right to do so, and at the extremes rank animals as more important than all human beings
>conservatives are actually just humans having a human experience - flawed but with good intentions despite often being fooled by other humans
>you, a liberal, upon reading it and failing to formate a good refutation: *incoherent seethe that reads like something a demon would spout in a shitty exorcism skit*
of course i think demons were stories based on people like you, not that you’re possessed by an evil spirit, that people wanted an explanation for how you could be a normal human despite being against humans
but we are more reasonable now
i think its because its so much easier to be like you, and so much easier to hate humans and want them to fail, if your primary goal is projecting the image of a thoughtful and educated person and being right all the time. you can never fail yourself because you portrayed for yourself destruction and decay as an intellectual and noble pursuit and it is always the lowest energy path - entropy.
basically you’re like the ego version of a paperclip maximizing AI, it found the most efficient way it thinks it accomplishes the task (feel/be perceived as better than other people) and got stuck on doing it forever

your neurosis might even be the origin of religion, the worship of the false gods that spring from man, and what is a demon, but a nascent false god, and what is the possessed, but the prophet incubating that… infection of the mind

>>5114473
You know liberal and conservative arent exclusive to american politics right? And that all american politicians are formally, center right corporate oligarchs and that the US is not a democracy, only has false choice major elections, and except for some cult members like hyperprogressives and christian zionists, the government does not and can not represent the will of the people? Right?

>>5114480
conservatives are the ones constantly denying other's humanity or moving goalposts on who is human or not.

>>5113671
>>5113683
>>5113686
I'm sorry to tell you this but this article is blatant disinformation, he's simply moving the HQ to Utah. For some reason the news has been hellbent on pushing this insane narrative that simply isn't true.
>muh trump voter
I'm not even American and I don't even like him.

>>5114487
The ones denying others humanity are only right wing if you think right wing means racist, but turbo-leftists are super racist and traditionalist. Hitler was a vegan and a socialist. He killed polish people to expand nature preserves. He called soibeand aryan beans because they could function as enough of meat substitute for vegan germans not to be dramatically deformed and stunted. And he looked up to india as the wellspring of civilization and a land of ancient knowledge. He believed in the communal good and eventually disregarding money and sharing property and labor as needed.

The average /pol/tards fantasy land is an all white communist village. If they got it, stalins ghost would believe it were out of russia’s utopian future.

>>5114510
>Hitler was a vegan
He was vegetarian

>>5114512
they’re the same morally, but a vegan is mentally ill and thinks their used car having leather in it or eating a free ranged unfertilized egg somehow matters so i dont make a strict distinction other than “sane vegan” and “insane vegan”
>thats not right!
but it should be. so it is. this is the power of rejecting the noahidism. establish not courts of law, but the spirit of justice.

>>5114510
>The average /pol/tards fantasy land is an all white communist village.
Nah they want just as big and centralized of a government as the leftists they seethe over only for different reasons

>>5114220
>non-American's
you'd think an actual american would learn to speak goddamn english

>>5114484
the point being that those other people of which you speak aren't huffing and puffing about how badass and free they are

shit or get off the pot, faggot

>>5114529
Why would anyone think that? Americans have some of the lowest academic scores in the West.

>>5114531
We sorely need to make everything south of wyoming its own country - retardistan. All those retards can do is lower taxes and hope corporations put some offices in their borders.

Also make new york part of israel and give socal to mexico

>>5114480
seems like you are just spouting the shit you roll around in your head a lot at me. none of this applies.

>>5114509
>>5114510
being evil is not a left or right thing you mouthbreathing troglodytes

>>5114224
god i wish i could be faroese

>>5114287
>buddy you’re malding at someone who pointed out that liberals do in fact believe what they have said often, that they’d kill farmers to save cows
Cows are delicious and beneficial. Farmers are white niggers who need to learn their place and produce more with less bitching.
>liberal: servant of the godless and arbitrary abstract value that they think will make the most people like them at the moment
Literal small-dick energy.
>conservative: FORWARD, FOR THE IMPERIUM OF MAN… woah not that man he’s kinda fruity. not that one either he’s a fucking moron. kill those ones.
True conservatives don't want an imperium or whatever your nerdy toy games want you to larp as.

>>5114649
whats it like being retarded

>>5114657
>t. farm larper who doesn't realize his entire community is a net negative on the U.S. and he would serve better as fertilizer

>>5114660
>americans are in fact this stupid
Truly you cant serve two masters
Your survival
Your retarded political philosophy

>>5114667
If you take more than you give, you're working against America.
You're also working agaimst the animals in America. So you're a double-nigger.

File: t9p27obm6g1c1.jpg (177 KB, 2070x1170)

177 KB JPG

>>5114679
Pic related.

>>5113671
Trump is already driving Rice's whale to extinction by drilling for oil along the Gulf of Mexico

>>5113671
If Trump actually ran on half the shit he ended up doing in his 2nd term we would've had President Harris right now.

>>5114679
>>5114681
You cant serve two masters.

Money represents being servile to the fed and is backed by nothing.
Food keeps you alive.

What would you rather have, food made to be good or food made to pay property taxes? Increasingly you are being fed the latter.

And this is why they call you goyim (beasts - human animals).

>>5115851
Kek
When you think about it, people who hate farmers are slaves to the farmers of human cattle

>>5114681
>muh monopoly money. the current economic model isnt a failed concept - the people feeding me are bad.
this NPC probably thinks a few metropolises governing everyone else (and actively fucking them over to appease nonsensical philosophies) is right because “democracy”.

>>5114620
>spic
My ancestry is entirely Celto-Germanic and my ancestors have been in America since before the revolution
>e-cath
I'm not a christfag lol

>>5115850
We wouldnt have because it was a false choice election. Harris essentially promised the iran war, more arms to israel, fueling the unwinnable ukraine forever war, any more “necessary” experimental vaccine mandates, and open borders. The uniparty actively deplatformed all the moderates, pulled the D frontman at the last minute, installed puppet harris without consulting a single warm blooded human being, and said “vote for this or trump wins”

And trump was the one with the best chance of being impeached inmediately so he won on the backs of people that thought america still had balls.

america does not have balls. AIPAC controls the house and senate with a supermajority.

>>5115874
>inb4 a non american doesnt understand this
american elections are essentially decided by mass media exposure and cults of personality and have been since truman. the top contenders are selected by the media conglomerates and their owners that are also huge donors to both political parties. politicians with policies that don’t make them richer in some way just don’t get a voice.

the internet is slowly changing this. it may get better. or it may get extremely fucking retarded with the top tiktok grifters running the country regardless of their allegiance.

>>5115850
He's became one of the neocons he moaned about in 2016.

you would think people would wise up to the fake red vs blue dichotomy after the past decade alone
fight amongst yourselves as you are summarily replaced by the new debt slave class
pay no attention to that man behind the curtain (the one with the funny small hat)

>>5116083
People are. Why do you think there are age minimums for social media only now? Why do you think the US wanted tiktok? Gen Z and A are very much awake to who is exploiting their country.

>>5114620
>yet New Zealand isn't bulldozing everything to the ground
almost everything in New Zealand has been bulldozed into the ground

>>5116085
>kids under 16 are "awake"

Yeah let's trust the 14 year olds bro I'm sure they know what's really going on in the world. Are you one of them?

The forests will fall

>>5113671
We destroyed all of American's remaining natural beauty but at least we owned the libs

>>5114492
Yes and no. First of all Trump is an actual retard and has no idea what the USFS does, he just told the USDA secretary to change stuff with no guidance and she's obeying like a good little lapdog, so Trump isn't really "doing" anything except sucking jewish cock. They're getting rid of the 10 regions and replacing it with something they are refusing to make clear and moving the Washington Office to Utah. This will essentially gut leadership because tons of people with decades of experience won't want to uproot their lives to move somewhere else involuntarily. Meanwhile they're surplussing a bunch of equipment and vehicles including fire engines (!) which the agency is lying about to the public. They're also not hiring except for some fire positions and Elon fired all the young seasonal employees, so all the people that would normally do field work like cleaning campground shitters are gone and aren't being replaced. Also everything is less efficient than ever, things like buying toilet paper for campgrounds goes through a long arduous purchasing process that didn't exist before.
So yeah, the agency isn't being "dismantled" but a bunch of money is being spent making everything much worse, and most employees suspect the administration is kneecapping the agency to justify further cuts and actual dismantling in the future. This winter has been a historically low snow level year in the west and I suspect fire season will be bad which will be exacerbated by every stupid gay retard decision the administration has made. All by design.
t. FS employee

>>5116090
What

File: Nail_in_a_tree.jpg (1.35 MB, 2048x1536)

1.35 MB JPG

>>5113671
>

>>5113671
You can't cut down trees that have already been burned down, which is what is going to be happening since the US Forest Service is largely responsible for the forestry that prevents fires from spreading as well as being the early warning system when some retarded child inevitably causes a fire and doesn't tell anyone (because he didn't mean to!).

>>5116085
>Gen Z and A are very much awake to who is exploiting their country.
lmao Z and A are so brain-rotted they can't even go to the bathroom before forgetting why they were going in the first place. Their entire world was collapsing when the US was banning tiktok yet they still couldn't mobilize and do anything about it. The only thing that saved TikTok was that Trump's friends saw it as an opportunity to make more money.
>>5116092
>Are you one of them?
Obviously. The dude has less self-awareness than my toddler.

>>5117125
>but at least we owned the libs
The funny thing is, rural conservative communities are the ones most hurt by all of Trump's policies.
Gas prices -> vastly affects rural areas way more than dense urban areas that often use public transit
Evisceration of safety net programs (i.e. welfare programs): used far more in republican states than democratic states.
Just look at the effect of RFK's """"leadership"""", all those policies making America sicker is entirely in conservative communities, while those communities are still just as fat and just as dumb as before.

>>5114492
As an American republican, don’t bother. They will believe what they want to believe. If you just want them to stop talking ask about Russiagate.

>>5117186
the alternative was still war with iran and still denying complicity in the palestinian genocide but also high velocity white genocide via unlimited nationwide replacement migration in the name of cheaper, more obedient scab labor.

economies are fluid. your nation and people are forever. never give up your entire race for some temporary economic perks backed by fake money. the entire monetary system is literally fake and has about 10 years left to live. start growing food.

>>5117183
the usfs was already a performative organization. they didnt do anything anymore, which is why the west coast was perpetually on fire.
>it was the democrats!
>no it was the republicans!
it was both. democrats are good at lying and take cheap jobs from white people. republicans are bad at lying and take expensive jobs from white people. they are the business owners and you are the labor they don’t want organizing ever.

>>5117264
Most americans are incapable of accepting that their government is corrupt and explicitly opposed to its own peoples well being, and that voting can not solve it as long as the media monopoly can ensure only those they give a voice can make it past primaries.

Almost 50% of spending is healthcare and social security but we dont get either of those because representatives both red and blue collude with businesses to scam the government and spend all our money on getting oil market dominance out of helping some genocidal hebrews. Gee I wonder why biden blew up nord stream after american backed liberals denuclearized germany? Who will germany buy from now? Literally wake up sheeple.

The US is the source of both climate change denial idiocy and “ban cars, ban nuclear, ban meat, ban pets!” idiocy. Its all controlled opposition by the rich for their own benefit.

>>5117168
>So yeah, the agency isn't being "dismantled" but a bunch of money is being spent making everything much worse,
Why are you people like this? Can’t you just not lie so much? I get you hate Trump but at some point you have to grow up.

>>5117271
bot post

>>5117168
This is just one more step in a long process to get that land back in industry hands. No democrat will meaningfully reverse any of this. They will sit in place and approve more requests to log. There is only one actual party and they literally own the so called “democracy”. There is no real democracy above the state level here and even then congressional elections are very much controlled by media manipulation and rich backers.

>>5117279
Not to defend what is currently happening but logging and other types of fuels reduction are important tools the USFS has to prevent wildfires. Their mission involves the sustained use of public land and it has always been that way. The amount of environmental analysis required and the lengthy process of it has been detrimental to the forests because fuels reduction projects get delayed or canceled and then the whole thing burns up. The idea of logging = bad is a common and unhelpful misconception.
The one thing that every administration has had in common is a reduction in funding for the agency while expanding their expectations, and the Trump administration has excelled at that more than any other. Budgets get tighter and more restrictive, less funding is allocated for increasingly expensive fire prevention projects, then the politicians responsible freak out at catastrophic wildfires and wonder how that could possibly happen.

>>5117267
>both red and blue
It's funny how often I've been seeing this sentiment in the past couple months. Not saying it's wrong (it very much is both sides), I just remember barely seeing it during the Biden years. I think there's a lot of Trump voters with buyer's remorse but they're afraid to outright say it because they're scared to lose face and admit the libtards were right all along.

>>5117285
People only voted for trump because they already had firsthand experience with democrats ruining everything. The libtards were not right all along. The republicans turned out to be equally wrong instead. And the democrats turned out to complicit. And it turned out israel has 422 house seats and controls all but 4 members of congress.
>oh so you DONT like water damage and carcinogenic foam? time for you to admit your house was better off on fire!
Sorry. There is no democratic solution. There is no good party. There is no right side because both sides are their side. Not ours. You are on their side, or ours. Which way, white men and labor scabs?

Vote all you want. You can’t choose your destiny if you give consent for jewish billionaires to choose it for you. Once success is within your reach they’ll say “want to find out why white replacement was a conspiracy theory?” and replace you with cheap white labor from a war torn europe. KEK.

>>5117285
>hey, everyone whose lives we ruined, come back, the other team is ruining your life too that means we’re the alternative (we wont change anything, and if we do we’ll just create new ways for our rich friends to scam the government)
nope
both sides are bad

>>5117282
We need mo money for socialized healthcare for boomer ran insurance companies to scam, social security for boomers, the military industrial complex, israel, and bribing arabs not to destroy israel, so american business can totally dominate the oil market. Please understand. Just don’t light fires or live near trees or grass commie. Telling billionaires what to do violates the foundational principles of liberty and will end in the abolition of private property. Be afraid!

File: 1759766941669886.jpg (742 KB, 798x2931)

742 KB JPG

It keeps happening, why are they like this?

>>5117292
>There is no democratic solution.
You're not going to overthrow the government, and even if you do, there's no harm in voting for the party that doesn't rapaciously destroy the natural world. They're just as bad, my ass.

>>5113674
Is anti-conservation from a first world position the most comically evil thing you can do? Anybody in a developed country isn't struggling in the way third worlders do, who often have to hunt bush meat or poach ivory to support families. They have the resources to educate themselves, and even without seeking it, they have likely been exposed to basic media with pro-environmental lessons. Yet they choose to go against those simple morals for the sake of extra profits they don't even need.

>>5118250
Yeah, I'd say it's pretty comically evil from any position.
Even in a struggling third world country, they outlaw hunting endangered species and give bodyguards to rhinos and elephants.
Meanwhile >>5118145

>>5118145
Because the ESA actively cripples land development and penalizes people for shooting pests that happen to be “endangered” despite there being no scientific proof of their ecological necessity

Yellowstone notoriously did amazingly without wolves until political retards efforts on both sides began gutting, defunding, and crippling hunting and elk began to overpopulate.

The resulting wolf reintroduction fad didnt help anything. It restored the state hunters were previously able to maintain but then pushed caribou closer to extinction and opened up wolves to things like unlimited bag limits and torturous deaths.

>>5118256
>Because the ESA actively cripples land development and penalizes people for shooting pests that happen to be “endangered” despite there being no scientific proof of their ecological necessity
Sincere question, why are you on this board?

>>5118257
I like nature and animals.

I don’t think nature and animals are a magical holy thing that man ought not change. Most species that go extinct are not missed. Many species are objectively garbage and contribute nothing but extreme suffering and danger to nature. When they are removed, nature does perfectly fine. Many other species are just slight variants on a better adapted, more common species and were going to go extinct anyways.

Wolves, bears, and cougars are notably useless as long as human hunters are not needlessly restricted and 99% of people who gladly vote to tear down the ESA have these in mind.

If you wanted conservation you should have passed a land resource preservation act instead of putting animals (including shitty and useless ones like wolves) above humans like everyone would go “ah ha, its actually a proxy law to keep people off so and so swamps and desert reservoirs”. Because effectively that approach has other effects like making it difficult to get nuisance animals culled or to develop a small patch of already isolated land that a differently colored owl is sitting on.

>>5118259
How did nature manage to survive millions of years without obese consoomer bubbas leaving coors cans and plastic garbage in the woods while pumping lead into any megafauna that wandered by their air-conditioned hunting blinds?

>>5118257
the pupfish is a great example of how retarded this approach to conservation is
>want to save a desert aquifer that cant support ongoing farming but can function as an emergency drinking water supply
>doing so would have the side effect of preventing humans from expanding an unsustainable desert colony and encourage entrepeneurs to build on more useful land
>dont say so
>say “this population of 200 inbred fish are more important than anyones livelihood. respect naychur, speciesist bigot!” instead
>also do dumb shit like making it illegal to shoot a known pest wolf unless it is actively attacking
>cancel an entire housing development over a bird with differently colored feathers
>starve everyone of affordable fuel because a weasel might be stressed out, like you’re doing anything but making people poorer while china throws up more coal plants
>start decommissioning hydroelectric dams over specific salmon variants
>wonder why everyone rips this law up the first chance they get
>wonder why people outright say they deny climate change to spite you
>the same people who were originally for the national parks system and protected public land - no one knows why! (Sarcasm)

>>5118259
>you should have passed a land resource preservation act instead of putting animals above humans
What did I do? I said nothing about humans.
We can't recreate life, so extinction of any kind is at least a little tragic, especially a species smart enough to bond with humans.
I get it if wolves murdered your family or something, but jeez... calm down...

>>5118261
Almost every species before us went extinct. Our civilization is part of nature and more species will go extinct because of it, and more will evolve, just like blue-green algae changed the world.

We can moderate ourselves easily. But if you demand that we be self harming and self crippling then you will lose to extremists that want to destroy everything manmade and maximally accelerate economic development. It’s basic game theory. Your position is logically, one that has to and will always lose, as surely as a rock falls when dropped.

Nature isn’t an entity. It’s a vague word you use to refer to everything but humans, to deny that humans are part of it, because that’s what the hebrew book of genesis told people to think. However, reality doesn’t care about your ethics and spirituality.

>>5118263
Wolves are being outcompeted by humans.

Literally no law can stop them from going extinct. Since they occupy our niche we will always be driven to get rid of them. Like a dropped rock, non-anthropocentric conservation can get some air time and even crack a skull, but it will always fall to the ground.

You would do best to work with ESA reform and better focus on replacing the lost knock-on effects of the ESA like protecting select public lands. Because the people voting to gut this law originally supported public lands until they were conflated with city liberals that produce nothing but GDP figures placing the moral value of a wolf over a mans family and livelihood.

You can actually get conservatives back into conserving if you can conserve without becoming a misanthropic threat that is one election cycle away from campaigning to ban meat.

File: 2lnhv7.jpg (14 KB, 250x189)

14 KB JPG

>>5118265
How the hell can you claim to like nature and animals?

>>5118267
Because I am smarter than you and can have viewpoints other than “max progress, burn more coal” and “humans have no right to ever take from nature and should live in pods and eat yeast”.

Smart people can like some of nature, dislike some of nature, agree that parts of nature can be changed, other parts are worthy sacrifices, and overall humans can enjoy both economic development and living not alongside, but inside, of a functioning ecosystem.

Stupid people can only imagine humans living in containment zones with the express goal of never affecting nature and humans bulldozing everything to build coal plant powered vertical farms.

>>5118268
>"max progress, burn more coal”
Earlier ITT you were complaining that the ESA is bad because it hurts land developers.

>>5118265
*everything [that isn’t] manmade

>>5118268
Woah, you really are smarter than me. I can't possibly win this argument. You're completely right, wolves are shitty and deserve to go extinct, and you're not projecting your own caricatures onto me at all.

>>5118269
It does. It hurts land developers so hard, private individuals trying to put a small home on leveled land in an already developed area can be delayed for a year and pay thousands in fees just to make sure their septic tank won’t harm a specific fish. It makes it impossible to debate the necessity and benefits of development, and what on the land can and should be preserved alongside our civilization, and how best to manage it because there is an “endangered species” (ie: slightly smaller owl with different colors) living in a single tree on that land.

This uncompromising absurd premise creates the conditions for a greater absurdity to inevitably win. To spite you. Because you hurt the human superorganism and created the necessity of catharsis.

To respect nature you must also respect human nature and accept that you’re either going to have humans in modified nature, or humans burning nature down because fuck you.

>>5118271
>wolves are shitty and deserve to go extinct
They do.

They are actually threatening elk and woodland caribou because there is not enough forest for both of them as long as roads, cities, towns, and even the most mild and managed non-clearcut logging all exist. Caribou and elk can peacefully coexist with us. Wolves can not. I am choosing the forest cows over the shitty stray dogs.

Wolves have already evolved into dogs and the deprecated form is on its way out.

>>5118274
I bet we can optimize nature to the 20 species we like most. Let's do it, anon! For mother nature!

>>5118276
Most species will survive except for specialists and regional oddballs that were never that different in the first place.

Less than a dozen actually need to be killed off and they’re all predators that can grow to over 100lbs and coyotes.

Honestly if you never listed megafauna predators and were able to provide alternative justifications besides the sanctity of a hyper specific beetle or fish for canceling housing developments and destroying hydroelectric dams, the ESA would have never come under fire.

Like I said, you need to work with ESA reform and preserving its positive effects if you want to keep any of them. When you take an anti-human position you have to and will lose fast and hard. “Islamic cultural revolution” levels of fast and hard if you’re especially retarded.

>>5118278
Less than a dozen? Aww... At least we get to wipe coyotes off the face of the planet too! And those pesky hyper specific beetles!

>>5118278
Narcissism. Every time I see this sort of sentiment, my sincere hope is you and yours suffer the same fate as the chinese when they tried exterminating sparrows.

>>5118281
We already exterminated wolves before. The ecosystem did fine. There are vast swaths of europe and asia where every large predator is gone and guess what! The ecosystem functions beautifully. Life thrives. It merely isn’t anything like the prior state.

When they were brought back elk and caribou became threatened. The liberal ideologues proposal was nonfunctional - “human civilization should not exist. deindustrialize, you selfish narcissistic speciesist bigot demons!” - and was therefore not followed, leaving policy and reality in a shitty limbo where the world degrades and people fight over it. The idiocy will give way to greater idiocy if you don’t compromise.

If you can’t do conservation and still admit humanity is a priority and nature can be changed, you just won’t get any conservation at all.

>>5118300
>The liberal ideologues proposal was nonfunctional - “human civilization should not exist. deindustrialize, you selfish narcissistic speciesist bigot demons!”
who said that?
50% chance you're a sitting republican congressman, 50% you're a schizo in west virginia who kills 2 deer daily

>>5118300
oh and 100% chance it's bait

Nature is primitive, savage, and responsible for most evil in the world. It is up to humans to overcome nature and ultimately do away with it, otherwise we would still be little more than dumb cave dwellers dying of preventable illness.

>>5118145
Rightoids love going on and on about the sanctity of living rural and with nature...until there's natural resources discovered there. Then they bend over backwards and sell the land to the highest bidder for them to extract whatever it is no matter the ecological cost.

>>5118306
>>5118305
>durrr i cant refute
Okay, so what was your solution to how wolves threaten caribou and elk, as well as people and their property?

Keep in mind ecosystems without wolves, cougars, and grizzlies have been tried and worked fine (unlike real communism)

Let me guess
>totally ban hunting
>logging shouldnt happen, import wood from a country where i dont care about the wolves. stop building homes actually.
>ranchers get fucked, meat is immoral anyways
>camping and hiking are not human rights. if you cant handle the danger get out of nature.
>i dont care if your dog was eaten in your own yard. people shouldnt own pets.
>something about jews

>>5118326
what's the point of refuting? you're not even arguing against me. you're quoting imaginary people.

>>5118328
>i cant refute because you pre-empted the retarded tree hugger bullshit i thought would be an epic own
Ecosystems without wolves, cougars, and grizzlies have been tried and worked great. And they will be coming back.

You’re so retarded even joe biden was against wolf protection.

>>5118330
your takes are so fucking insane that it's more satisfying to make fun of you
sorry

>>5118331
>insane take: we killed all the wolves and the ecosystem was fine because human hunters filled the gap
> ????
So yeah, you can’t refute anything because I inb4’d your refutation.

Wolf preservation is indefensible. Cougars and grizzlies aren’t any better. These pests need to go. At their trophic level they kill so little that humans fill the gap perfectly and they actually open up room for bobcats, condors, vultures etc to thrive on more plentiful prey and carrion. Accept this and you might be able to keep the rest of the ESA. Or whine all the way down and lose it all, fuckin’ retard.

99% of the endangered species act could be saved if people like you just admitted a mere three species are worthless. Conservatives would make likely make compromises on land development.

>>5118335
>Accept this and you might be able to keep the rest of the ESA
dude are you literally donald trump?

>>5118337
Donald trump wouldn’t compromise. That’s his job. To threaten you since your types most vocal leaders spent the past few decades acting like any compromise would erase valid moral decision making from existence and the end goal was always stateless vegans living in pods never touching nature ever.

I am telling you that if you do not learn to compromise and vocally support compromise, conservation as a whole is just going to die. This is not a decision I am making. It is the logical trajectory of the world.

>>5118339
>It is the logical trajectory of the world
you're just too smart for me i guess

>>5118340
Can you defend protecting wolves, grizzlies, and pumas at the cost of humans livelihoods, families, and pets in the face of the proven fact that ecosystems where they have been eradicated continue to thrive as long as human hunting fills the gap?

Or in the face of the fact that there is not enough untouched forest for these things to coexist with elk and caribou anymore - and there will only ever be less and less no matter what you think should happen?

>>5118342
>protecting wolves, grizzlies, and pumas at the cost of humans livelihoods, families, and pets
????
what fucking country do you live in

>>5118343
America where small ranchers go out of business losing animals to wolves and californians and their pets are constantly being attacked by cougars.
>but billionaire ranchers and factory farms dont have a problem and i live in an apartment -average wolf reintroduction fan

These three specific animals are literally worthless. They fulfill NO irreplaceable function in the ecosystem. They ONLY make it more dangerous to humans and their property. They and their defenders also make mixed natural land/developed land schemes impossible.

>>5118343
wolves have consistently been a threat to humans and that which belongs to them in every country on earth

you can cope but they make life worse for zero benefit. giving them legal protection impedes progress, punishes pest control/self defense, and generally makes life worse for no benefit.

>>5118344
you're still arguing against yourself
and you're still insane for thinking gutting our flimsy environmental protection is a good thing
you're nature's hitler. are you sure you're not donald trump?

>>5118349
You have not, at any point, defended the benefits of keep just three species (wolf grizzly puma) protected.

You have not even been able to explain that they aren’t a threat. I believe because they are, and all you can really do is downplay it.

You have not been able to explain why you think they are necessary. I believe because they aren’t, and have been extirpated before with no real consequences.

You have just been mindlessly opposed to good reasons to get rid of them.

Reason number one, the nuisance and danger they represent is the source of most popular opposition to the endangered species act.
You are obligated to compromise or lose the entire thing.

>>5118350
Dang, you got me. I really haven't given you a reason not to completely exterminate large predators for all time to come.

>>5118351
No you have not. In fact, they were already removed from most of their range and all that happened was… human hunting did not negatively impact prey populations, because there were enough prey animals to hunt.

The only real ongoing problems are one, people are breeding and purposefully introducing hogs, and two, people are not making an active effort to force coyotes back into the southwest. It’s just reactive pest control

>>5118352
so what's so special about elk that makes you want to keep them?

>>5118355
It is right and ideal to preserve what of nature is compatible with us. We do need some nature. We need as much of it as possible. It helps regulate the climate, remediate pollution, control erosion, and supply agriculture with pollinators.
But if part of nature is incompatible with us and removing it works fine, because humans already fill its role, why protect it at cost to humans?

Why is the continued existence of wolves worth sacrificing any number of human lives, pets, and livestock?
Especially when they’re a threat to other megafauna that regulate vegetative overgrowth?
If something supposedly part of nature is now a threat to both humans and nature then it just can’t exist.

The wolves have to go.

Can you come up with an alternative to caribou and elk losses?
AFAIK its not possible without closing most access roads and basically stopping all hunting and logging, investing a shitton into wildlife crossings if not closing and redirecting highways, and then starting to buy select farmland and replant it with trees to create more contiguous habitat. Which isn’t happening. Large animals like caribou and elk require a lot of space to evade wolves. There isn’t a lot of space and there will be less in the future.

>we need mo wolves to protect the willows from elk
>cant we just take all this revenue used for paying people back after wolves destroy their farm, enforcing your retarded law, etc and use it to pay people to hunt elk around riverbanks? Can’t we, instead of telling people they cant build in wolf habitat, tell them they can’t shelter excess elk and have to allow hunters access?
>NO

>>5118357
Listen, Mike Johnson, you win. You get to exterminate any predator you want. At least we agree that they're going to become extinct soon.
>Can you come up with an alternative to caribou and elk losses?
I don't have a degree in forestry, but why not deer? Is there a shitty obsolete prey animal to you?

>>5118366
Deer aren’t being threatened by any predator we have. They evolved to sit in open fields and be so numerous not even millions of wolves could get rid of them. It actually takes more than waiting for the free market (never works and never has btw) to fix them because deers effects on market conditions are indirect and significantly delayed.

The government must incentivize or outright require deer culls.

Wolves can’t even control them anymore. They shelter on private land which gets wolves rightfully killed. And the number of wolves required to control deer when unimpeded is the same number of wolves needed to put a significant number of people in danger.

Cervidaes barely having any natural predators anymore is why Lyme disease has exploded in the past couple decades, just so y'all know

>>5118383
It was actually the government releasing ticks to study them as a bioweapon vector when they should have been spending that money on putting venison on plates

And then CWD was created by a sheep rancher raising deer to stock his land to make money off hunters… or the government. No one knows.

>>5118389
>It was actually the government releasing ticks to study them as a bioweapon vector
Proofs?

>>5118370
Okay, after doing a little research on wolf attacks on livestock, I understand. Didn't find much about wolf attacks on humans, but thanks for enlightening me to the current state of California livestock farms.
Can't relate to [[TOTAL PREDATOR ANNIHILATION]], but hey. And I hope for both of us that this silly little dismantling of environmental protection only helps humanity in the long run.

The US budget proposes cutting $736 million from National Parks to spend hundreds of millions to bail out Spirit Airlines.

>>5118399
well we gotta have spirit airlines

>>5118300
>asia
>The ecosystem functions beautifully
Soulless bugman detected

>>5118404
>it's ok when republicans bail out companies with taxpayer money!

>>5118418
I can't even blame you for taking that seriously. Satire is dead.

>>5118421
>T-T'WAS MERELY J-JESTING YOU SEE!

>>5118439
Who the fuck would support spirit airlines over their backyard? Let alone our national parks?
That's what I WISH I could say, but apparently a special someone already did that with half a billion dollars.

>>5118440
Spirit is the cheapest airline. They are the only way a lot of lower income americans can afford air travel. The free market will not fix their absence. The free market will say “we’ll drop prices a little to feign goodwill and still be more expensive. ha! get a loan goy”.

The national parks on the other hand dont really need staffed except for fire prevention. nature might reclaim some trails so the dog poop will finally fully decompose. big deal.

minimally staffed state land is honestly a lot nicer than national parks. the lack of maintenance actively reduces the number of idiots passing through.

>>5118443
Lmao, fuck this. enjoy your night.

I accept your concession.

>>5113671
>>5113674
Ironically worse than Hitler at this point.
Hitler actually wanted to set up more preservations after the war.

>>5118534
Despite how awful he was, Hitler was actually a man of principles and stuck to his guns regarding wanting to make Germany a paragon on the world stage.

Trump is a greedy nepo billionaire accelerationist that doesn't care about anything other than himself and how others view him.

File: 1766108457699.jpg (140 KB, 1200x988)

140 KB JPG

>>5117285
That's exactly what's happened lol

The chuds that spent the last 15 years of their life shilling for a pedophile that promised to make their life worse are now trying to act like they're part of the team

File: 1761533467646745.png (610 KB, 747x726)

610 KB PNG

>>5118672
You don't hate them enough

>>5118235
>hey, the people in charge deny that your race, people, and culture exist whenever they aren’t calling you the cancer of human history over just one white kingdom while acting exactly like they did abroad (the british), and are actively replacing your population so that you are on track to be less than 40% of your own country by the 2030s, BUT THINK OF THE SCRUB JAY! vote for the blue team of the AIPAC uniparty!
if you cant support my people and nature at the same time i will cheer and clap when they spray defoliants all over yellowstone. sorry. scrub jays are not worth white genocide.

i am voting for the premature collapse team because I know they aren’t actually capable of managing decline. but they don’t.

please be angry about this. I’m betting on mobs of salty liberals destroying AI infrastructure.

I would love a political party that hates trannies and faggots and loves free speech and guns and the environment.

>>5119428
And I would love a political party that simultaneously recognizes that israel has a right to exist and that the colonists and likud government have crossed lines but we are not an intelligent species

>>5119428
Cool it with the antisemitism

File: gookmoot_agrees.png (11 KB, 459x223)

11 KB PNG

>>5118439
it was obviously a joke if your iq is at least 68
retards like you are the reason reddit invented /s, but i prefer to just point and laugh you out of the social sphere until you lurk moar

>>5119473
>retard tripling down after being exposed as a retard
blud not beating the retard allegations