The bluestreak cleaner wrasse, a 10cm fish species that feeds off the dead skin of larger fish, has demonstrated the ability to recognize itself in a mirror -- a trait that is more so associated with birds and more intelligent mammals.Scientific paper on this phenomenon:https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-70138-7Video on the subject:https://youtu.be/Drbl5udwk9I
>>5114217Literally everything with a noticeably centralized brain is “self aware” no matter how conditioned they are to reflections. As in, it must know it exists to handle basic concepts like self grooming, property, territory, and more advanced navigation than bumping into things. At one point people became fond of this idea that animals are hilariously large compilations of if-then-else statements but its actually simpler, evolutionarily and biologically, for it to just know it exists and figure out how to serve its own needs. The number of small little retards like fish and ants passing the mirror test is a huge hint that everything bigger that failed it was actually self aware and either uninterested in touching/removing the spot or wasnt used to mirrors and had a stronger fear instinct overriding consideration. The real question is if they think about thinking or just know they exist
I wonder how many people are olfactory self-aware
>>5114242Having been to a TCG store before: very few.
>>5114221>it must know it exists to handle basic concepts like self grooming, property, territoryCouldn't those just be instinct and basically automated without the animal understanding why it's doing what?>more advanced navigation than bumping into thingsI'm not sure. I don't think you need self awareness to see a wall and avoid it. Computer programs can do that.
>>5114267>it could be a giant conflagration of case statement logic so surely it isit makes you feel more comfortable if it is but its easier to just make part of a brain bigger until rudimentary consciousness emerges than it is to hone mechanistic behavioral pathways, considering how evolution actually works. then the brain can hone pathways on its own instead of waiting for the genetic dice roll.
>>5114267Understanding (or thinking you understand) your own behaviors is thinking about thought and even humans tend to be wrong about itSimple self awareness is knowing you exist and are not someone elseBeing self aware means knowing you are walking and where in space and time you are, but not necessarily why
>>5114269>it makes you feel more comfortable if it isI don't really care and I agree that a lot of animals are smarter than we give them credit for. I just don't think that self awareness is a hard requirement for shit like grooming and territory like you said. Those are relatively simple actions and ideas that could be automated through instinct. Not saying the necessarily are, but just arguing against the point that they can't be.>but its easier to just make part of a brain bigger until rudimentary consciousness emerges than it is to hone mechanistic behavioral pathways, considering how evolution actually worksYeah makes sense. A bunch of if-else statements will approach the complexity of basic counsciousness anyway but they'll completely fail in a new scenario that a conscious being would be able to improvise in.
>>5114271>Simple self awareness is knowing you exist and are not someone else >Being self aware means knowing you are walking and where in space and time you are, but not necessarily whyThat's not wrong, but I don't think it's the definition people typically think of when they hear the term. By that definition a pathfinding algorithm is self aware.
My cat not only recognizes herself in the giant mirror next to her cat tree, but she also likes to look at it from different angles and spies on me with it.
>>5114276A pathfinding algorithm never knows where it is and that it is. You probe its state to determine how the algorithm has progressed up to that point. A self aware animal is familiar with its own state as a fact. It contains the pathfinding algorithm, the observer, and the probing mechanism all at once.It can also want, not just… progress. That’s a common trait, desiring. It just doesn’t have to know or ask why it does something or wants something.
>>5114285>A pathfinding algorithm never knows where it is and that it is. You probe its state to determine how the algorithm has progressed up to that point. Well true. I guess I meant more so an NPC that's running the algorithm. The NPC knows its own XYZ coordinates and velocity. That would technically fit your definition of self awareness.>It can also want, not just… progress. That’s a common trait, desiring. True, but that's going beyond the definition you posted.
>>5114221It's not really relevant. Everyone wants to pretend animals are dumb to justify mistreatment.>>5114283OP's test is also probably heard to measure because there's intelligence within species. Some cats are smart, some are retarded. Probably lots of other species where they happened to test dumb ones.
>>5114289Sorry you don’t get it bruv. Being too literal is an incelmaxxed cope for gigaplebs that can’t nuancemog brainlets. In other word, I didnt’t just expound, I clarified. The reference to desire wasn’t beyond the concept I put forth. It was beyond your limited interpretation of it. –. *sips wine**pets cat*
You now remember 6yo children in africa failed to recognize their own reflections
>>5114283Kitty!
>>5114217This fish species is more intelligent than any cat
>>5114217Wrasses (Labridae) in general are intelligent fishes
>>5114217Fish possess consciousness. This has been proven repeatedly.
>>5114221fpbp
>>5114221Fish are intelligent:https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/these-fish-know-when-youre-watching-them/
>>5117671Mammalfags and birdfags always be coping
>>5117671Don't underestimate fish:This shows that the individual steps in nest building are innate, but cichlids only become master nest builders through practice. Remarkably, fish that were given another chance at nest building after a whole year without access to snail shells still displayed the skills of practiced architects and did not have to start from scratch—they were able to remember what they had learned even after this long period.The researchers also explored whether the fish could adapt to unexpected challenges to their nest-building program. They exposed the fish to 3D-printed, sinistral snail shells. These shells are extremely rare in nature and are a mirrored version of the natural shell of right chirality. Amazingly, after just a short time the fish learned to simply change direction, rotating the shell counterclockwise rather than clockwise into the sand as they do for dextral shells."For a long time, it was assumed that nest building consisted of purely innate behavioral patterns. But studies in birds and our own research show that cognitive abilities such as learning, remembering and adapting also play important roles," says Swantje Grätsch, project leader at the Max Planck Institute for Biological Intelligence and first author of the study.https://phys.org/news/2026-04-underwater-architects-cichlids-reveals-hardwired.html""Accordingly, we were able to show that during nest building in cichlids, brain regions homologous to the mammalian hippocampus are active, which is known to be responsible for precisely these abilities. We are only just beginning to understand how complex this goal-directed behavior and the underlying processes in the brain really are."
>>5117671>>5118734https://phys.org/news/2026-03-damselfish-lines-regional-accents.htmlCourtship calls among two species of fish commonly found on Australian coral reefs have been described, and researchers say their "accents" can vary significantly between regions. Scientists led by the Australian Institute of Marine Science (AIMS) and the Center for Marine Science and Technology (CMST) at Curtin University combined audio and visual tools to study two closely related Damselfish species—Dascyllus aruanus and Dascyllus reticulatus—finding they each produce distinct courtship pulse sounds. Characterizing variation in fish sounds associated with reproduction improves scientists' ability to detect species remotely and, in some cases, measure spawning success.Researchers found the sounds varied strongly between two reef locations featured in the study, indicating that factors such as local dialects and environmental conditions, may influence how sounds are produced by the small black and white fish. The findings are published in Scientific Reports.Recording and attributing the pulse sounds of the damselfish for this study was a difficult task. Many fish sounds remain undocumented because it is hard to attribute the cacophony of sounds on biodiverse places like coral reefs to individual species, or to their particular behaviors.
>>5114221Goddamnit, finally someone who gets it.
>>5119001Try looking at these studies, fag:>>5117671>>5118734>>5118812
>>5114217Why do chuds get so mad at the thought that fish are intelligent?
>>5114217Fish were here before mammals and they will be here after mammals
>>5119337What if I drink all the world’s water? Then what, smart guy?
>>5119374the humans would perish because they can't survive without water
