>>23800324
Here, hope this helps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE-Lzw_qzog

>>23800324
It was made up centuries after the fact, there is no such thing as hell in abrahamic religions, that greek influence and why its called hades lmao
Giving a shit about sand religions tho..

Did you know he killed himself for a serious disease he thought he had, and then it turned out he didn't really have it just a different minor thing easily fixed?

>>23800324
>what do you mean God has standards and hold people to account for their behavior?
No im not a liberal. You probably want reddit.

>>23800324
You get punished for sinning but not an eternity in hell

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>>23800324
Retarded jew
Hell is not mentioned in torah, quran, or bible
The chance of suffering after death is also not mentioned
>jews invented these lies to fuck with non jews

You're in That stage now.

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The whole concept of Hell and Satan and wtichcraft and paganism in the context of Christianity sounds to me like textbook propaganda

>Yes... yes, yes, MAYBE these other godly deities will give you extremely cool super natural powers like Dragon Ball Z, or make you rich and famous, or make someone fall in love with you BUT did you also know that if you do follow those deities they will also make suffer forever because you made the mistake or worshipping them?

Like in the whole context of God and Satan trying to collect as many souls as possible, this sounds like God is just talking mad shit and trying to cheat trying to scare people onto his side.

Why would The Devil or Mother Gaia or Thor or whoever send you to hell for worshipping them? Again this just sounds like some basic argumentative fallacy

>>23800324
I can trust intellectuals to be agnostics but it would be foolish to do the same with the dumbfuck goycattle and promoting atheism and degeneracy is a crime against humanity.

I think there’s a god but I doubt there’s an afterlife. I think we just feel an intense euphoria and understanding as we get sucked back into the consciousness of god after death

>>23800330
>Hell is not mentioned in torah, quran, or bible
lol

>>23800324
You think it's just coincidence that Judaism and Christianity have propaganda against the Angel Of Light as one of their core storytelling elements?

Maybe the God of those religions isn't who he says he is.

>>23800324
FYI: for any anons reading, there is no god and suicide definitely stops the pain.

>>23800336
Welcome to Agnosticism.

>>23800328
I dont know you but I guarantee you're a piece of shit. All these people screeching eternal hellfire have something to hide.

>>23800324
Dude, reincarnation is real and you're coming back as a bug (apologies to Warren Zevon}.

>>23800340
Better than an Indian

>>23800324
You think you are in a position to judge God on His sense of justice? lmao

What does "lapsing" mean? Does God possibly not having the same outlook on humanity and sin bother you? This is how women think.

>>23800335
Hell is a patented Christian invention.

>>23800324
The Abrahamic "God" is a false demiurge who displays envy, wrath, pride, and ignorance. If Christ was legit, he came to warn us and save us, but the agents of the dark one killed him and his message was corrupted almost immediately. To the discerning it can still be found.

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>>23800324
hell is not punishment, it is just karma, Siddhartha says you can burn your karma before you die and avoid hell and rebirth and the Eternal Return of Sisyphus

>>23800324
Every Christkike will burn in hell for working during Sabbath.

>>23800342
Do you think capitalizing the H in His every chance you get makes you a good Christian? Look around you, people are chortling.

HOURLY REMINDER: there is no god, jesus never existed and when you die there will be nothingness for eternity!

I don't want to be more of a dick than I already have, OP, but eteranl conscious punishment is the way things are. You can try to reason your way out of it, but that is what the bible clearly teaches.

If you pick out whatever books/verses you feel strongly point towards this and take them out of the bible or try to reason your way to where they mean something else, you begin fragmenting God at which point you are no longer following Him, but follow an idol of your own design. If you don't love him, then so be it. He offered you a way out of Hell.

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>>23800324
I'm not Christian because the earth is billions of years old, not 6,000, and there was no global flood 4,300 years ago during which the progenitors of every land animal on earth lived in a single boat.

>>23800324
It makes me laugh that you think you deserve Heaven, or even this life.

Completely insane takes by people with zero theological knowledge, this is what happens when instead of Orthodoxy you have Evangelical pastor Bob or tv Catholic fanfiction understanding.
>>23800324
The default state of a human is opposition to God and self destruction, it is self evident casually from everyday life.
Final Hell currently does not exist, what exists is unavoidable noetic or spiritual desolation, something that you feel literally right now objectively. When you pass away eschatologicaly it becomes impossible for you to deny the reality of your state anymore, if you are in opposition to everything that is good you will experience constant regret and rejection internally because God is omnipresent. There is nothing that can be done for you because that would mean erasing your personality and turning you into a different person.
Upon the eschaton there will be a general resurrection of all of the dead and the final judgement, rapture doesn't exist by the way and is a heresy, everyone including believers will unavoidably suffer under antichrist before second coming.

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>>23800332
european rituals and beliefs that were integrated into christianity were turned into gay evil jewish inversions of themselves

>european afterlife paradises are for those few who performed incredible deeds, with most people going to a neutral afterlife which is basically an eternal sleep, possibly returning to life some time later after the war of the gods, as in germanic tales, or just being generally an unknowable experience that isn't really negative or torturous

>christian afterlife paradise is for everyone, even people who did nothing of worth their entire lives, or even were incredibly evil, as long as they genuinely accepted a dead jew as their lord and savior, and hell is for everyone else including people who did great things, but were born before christianity came to their land, or because they simply didn't have enough faith in the jew god

>>23800347
What I'm saying is the truth. You can discover it for yourself in this life or the next. I don't want you to go to Hell. I take no comfort in that.

You should find a relationship with God. You should repent and believe the Gospel. If you don't, there is no hope for you. We are both guilty of breaking God's command to be perfect. I'm not a good Christian. Good people don't exist.

The truth is, I care about you and I care about OP. I care about everyone. If I didn't, I would have ignored this thread. I've said what I've come here to say.

May you all find peace with Christ!

>>23800354
>hell
>christ
>next life
Not real things! Take your meds!

>>23800332
>Like in the whole context of God and Satan trying to collect as many souls as possible, this sounds like God is just talking mad shit and trying to cheat trying to scare people onto his side
Dualism does not exist, God and Satan are not equal agents, God is a pre-eminent fully beyond sequential fully beyond time uncreated eternal entity, Devil is a created fallen angel.
Satan is not trying to collect souls out of competition or something, Satan is trying to destroy as much of creation as he can before eschaton because Satans fate is irreversibly sealed and he knows it thus the only thing he can do at all is seethe.

>>23800356
>because Satans fate is irreversibly sealed and he knows it thus the only thing he can do at all is seethe.
Why can't he just repent?

>>23800350
>pic
Damn, her areola size is pretty nice.
>post
Same.

The whole zionism thing blackpilled me on Christianity. I know it's anachronistic, it's not theological critique, etc, but something about 99% of organized Christianity being a big fundraising scam for Israel has just caused the rubber to hit the road; has forced me to contend with the various cognitive dissonances in my relationship with Christianity that I thought I could ignore forever.

I see Christians cheering for Israel blowing Christian churches in Gaza for a year, and I ust realize this is bad fruit--it came from a bad tree. I don't want anything to do with it.

>>23800324
You need to understand it is more than the physical acts of sin which keep you away from God. Sin is a choice of the flesh over the soul, an active rejection of God. That's what keeps you away from His kingdom. Fortunately God gave us the free gift of salvation you just need to choose it, no sin can keep you away from God if you choose to reject sin.

>>23800324
Hell is a pressure chamber one descends willingly into to crack themselves open to the light not unlike how a rock produces a flash of light when cracked open. Who knows what truly happens to your energy when you die. But seems to me it's more of a stepping into another version of yourself. Like deja vu. You haven't been there before. You're there now and always and everywhere all around. The brain is the cage with only a tiny window.

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Hell is self judgement
You would be surprised how horrific it is for most people
How can you present yourself for the judgement from and of others, until you can judge yourself?
Stare into the soul well
Witness your own reflection

>>23800324
If it helps the denial of purgatory is a Protestant heresy. Some will only burn in hell for a time and others will burn eternally. It's best not to go, but pretending that someone who stole a chocolate bar and was hit by a car is the same as a serial child rapist is ridiculous and unbiblical.

>>23800357
Two reasons.
Angels are different beings than humans, they are created with fully noetic sense and vision and similarly in form they are near omnipresent spiritual beings. When an angel is created nothing is hidden from the angel and they are in full awareness of reality and God.
This is a concept that western theology does not possess but it is instrumental to orthodoxy, every agent is ultimately a prosopon, a person. Jesus Christ for example is a full human in every single sense, with fully human body and all attributes, but he is Personally the same person as God himself. This means that ultimately personhood is above all things such as nature and energies and personhood of the Father is preeminent to all existence. Your personhood is who you ultimately are and you are in full control of it because that is literally you, even your soul is just the medium for your personhood.
Satan was personally so prideful that his personhood was ultimately irreconcilable with God, in himself he personally seethed and wanted to be above humans, creation and ultimately good, this personal desire was greater to him than all of glory.
Angels since they are in full noetic awareness and do not have excuse of confusion or earthly weakness means that if they make a decision this decision is ultimate and with full vision and understanding of how entire reality works.
That means that Satan rebelled completely understanding and seeing God. It is impossible to repent from that because there is nothing left for Satan to see or understand of God, he was in fact a cherub at the throne of God.

>>23800359
This issue does not exist outside of USA

Of the First Rebellion, and that proud Spirit
Who, fraught with envy at the Son’s high state,
Deemed his own merit equal to the Throne:
Hear how the Arch-enemy, by pride seduced,
Drew with him a third part of Heaven’s host
In impious war against the King Supreme.
Vain was their force; for the Messiah’s might,
Girded with thunder and celestial fire,
Drove the rebellious spirits o'er the crystal wall.
Nine days they fell through the sheer gulf of Night,
Until the burning lake of Tartarus
Received them howling. There, in deep despair,
The Apostate Angel lies, choosing to reign
In bottomless perdition and dark thrall,
Than bow in worship at the feet of Light.

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what if you get there, and Saint Peter finds your name in the Book of Life.
"You get to choose," Saint Peter says "You can go to hell and be with sinners and sin all you want. Mind you, others will sin against you. Or, you can be winnowed of your sins and enter Heaven but you can never sin again."
what is your choice?

>>23800324
Christianity originally taught universal salvation. That is to say, that every soul eventually reaches enlightenment and rejoins God. Whether that comes through learning in purgatory or reincarnation depends on which specific father you're reading, but they all pretty much agreed that God's universal love and inherent goodness meant that he would never and could never leave anyone behind. Origen even taught that even the devil himself would realize the error of his ways and rejoin God, as the last soul to finally become wise and humble.

>>23800364
Why would he choose to rebel if he already knew, with 100% certainty, that he had no chance of achieving anything and would only doom himself to eternal suffering?

>>23800366
>Drew with him a third part of Heaven’s host
This is the key. If turned inward then one can see.

>>23800369
Heaven is not a place in the stars. It rests inside the mind and the heart.

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>>23800330
That image is of Baphomet who didn't have any depictions till the late 1800's when occult mystic bullshit an seances began to gain popularity with Victorian upper classes.
It's about as "real" as something from a D&D monster manual.

>>23800369
He didn't choose to rebel in a human sense, as in he wanted to achieve something material or win over someone, you are thinking in temporal human sense.
His rebellion was that he personally decided that he wants to be above God, and that his sense of self is more important to him than the creation. The moment he made that decision he fell.
You can say it is irrational, but that would ignore humans in our very world who make literally the same decision of complete and utter desolate pride and destruction in spite of having every possible earthly good to satisfy them.

>>23800372
It's just an alchemical symbol for the divine currents born into one being. Just look at it. It's duality in an image.

>>23800373
>You can say it is irrational, but that would ignore humans in our very world who make literally the same decision of complete and utter desolate pride and destruction in spite of having every possible earthly good to satisfy them.
The difference is that, according to you, angels, unlike humans, have "full awareness of reality and God".

>>23800337
>FYI: for any anons reading, there is no god and suicide definitely stops the pain.
also remember that we are in a war where the enemy tries to get you to kill yourself

>>23800324
Eternal hell is not Biblical concept.

(Skip to 1:06:17)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTQS08G3BfI&t=1h6m17s

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>>23800368
This is false (or partly at least), but again I agree that purgatory exists. Those who blaspheme against God's very essence will be damned for eternity. In other words pagans have a better shot than Ananias and Sapphire at reaching heaven for example.

>>23800332
God doesn't mean "divine living entities", it comes from "Deus" which means "the highest". So when Christian writings say to avoid idolatry and not have any other gods before the one God, what they're saying is not to hold anything whatsoever higher than God. Or, not to hold things like pleasure and wealth higher than the source of truth and virtue, if you prefer it that way.

so like lucifer{his name in heaven} was like the premier chad, he got like super jealous of jesus...{i guess they were all roomates up there} so anyway, lucifer got super pissed off a jesus and called him a douchebag, and thought that people should worship him instead of hippy shoe jesus, who was prone to wearing birkensocks, whereas lucifer wore hermes and prada ...anyway this pissed off the big G and so he cast his ass and all his followers down into a lake of fire n' shit, where he and his peep's eventually found themselves in west hell, thats right, california....so, anyways lucifer, now satan the fallen angel along with all his brohams set up shop in hell and built this awesome city called pandamonium...at any rate, he decided he'd get even with the G unit by fucking with his favorite toy....that'd be us...so he tricked that ho eve into picking the apple, give a bitch one thing she ain't supposed to do and watch her do it anyway...so anyway...adam being the cuck bitch that he was, didn't want to see eve suffer alone, so he ate from the apple too so G unit would punish them equally, so adam. the jew dumbass eats the apple, they get all horny and do the nasty, G man finds out about everything and gets super pissed and kicks them out of eden where they had it made, now subject to everything bad the world can throw at them,,,, sin a death...satans kids, get off on watching you buttfuck then get aids and die, and so you're totally fucked until the O.G sends his son down to sacrifice himself for you sins, which didn't really seem to work that well because everyones still pretty fucked in the head...and that kids is why you to can go rot in hell....seems totally plauseable

>>23800324
God is eternally good and powerful.
Therefore any sin (however small) is eternally sinful.

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>>23800374
Still my point still stands a lot of these "demons" represent a later work of fan-fiction at a time where a lot of archaeological discoveries were being made of long gone ancient civilisations, and the deities of these civilizations were being made and sold to people at the time in esoteric books full of these type of ink drawings, often only going on the name of said deity.
It's just woo bullshit really.

>>23800375
Yes, there is no difference.
There are people in this world who do evil with full awareness of what it is, what it does, what the consequences are etc.
The ultimate flaw is that all persons wish to have a will that is ultimate, you wish that your will was always made manifest, that is a natural desire of being an agent but only God has will that exists eternally.
God offers synergy, through him your will can be made true in humility and cooperation and submission to God.
If your desire for your personal will is so great that you want it to be made manifest outside of God, this is a desire, than you are committing sin of pride.
If you haven't already, you will one day discover that some people are willing to sacrifice everything at the altar of their own ego just for the sake of it.

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>>23800324

>>23800324
Christianity is a slave religion for fucking retards. You faggots really believe some magical jew died for you and that means all the bad shit you did in your life is cool with the Jew God?

>>23800381
Absolute penal substationary atonement theology is insane and not orthodox.
>>23800382
Correct, majority of demonology is a result of occultist larp. And occultists themselves have no power over demons, their entire practice is delusion created by demons to make them feel powerful.

>>23800383
I mean really, just imagine how many times that waitress shoved them chicken legs up her snatch and served them to customers before she got caught.

>>23800328
>believes in eternal negative infinity social credit for working on Sunday
You're a lazy libtard.

>>23800361
I know what happens to your energy, it disperses by way of heat and chemical energy. Your identity is the structure of the energy, not the energy itself. Its all a scam to get you to be a loyal goyim and look forward to your death.

>>23800324
Whatever the verse said. I mean, everyone earned it. You just don't know that part, the severity of universal evil. Not taking God's side doesn't make any kind of sense.

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Compare this blind faith with the philosophical belief, based on every reasonable evidence and on life-experience, in Karma-Nemesis, or the Law of Retribution. This Law—whether Conscious or Unconscious—predestines nothing and no one. It exists from and in Eternity, truly, for it is Eternity itself; and as such, since no act can be coëqual with Eternity, it cannot be said to act, for it is Action itself. It is not the wave which drowns a man, but the personal action of the wretch who goes deliberately and places himself under the impersonal action of the laws that govern the ocean's motion. Karma creates nothing, nor does it design. It is man who plans and creates causes, and Karmic Law adjusts the effects, which adjustment is not an act, but universal harmony, tending ever to resume its original position, like a bough, which, bent down too forcibly, rebounds with corresponding vigour. If it happen to dislocate the arm that tried to bend it out of its natural position, shall we say that it is the bough which broke our arm, or that our own folly has brought us to grief? Karma has never sought to destroy intellectual and individual liberty, like the God invented by the Monotheists. It has not involved its decrees in darkness purposely to perplex man; nor shall it punish him who dares to scrutinize its mysteries.

>>23800386
>delusion created by demons
No I'm saying the delusion is believing in demons in the first place.

Also, you "seems to me" faggots are just self comforting, injecting your own philosophies and opinions to somerhing we have facts for. Im not talking about what feels possible, Im talking about what we have evidence for.

>>23800392
Demons are real, but regardless of your belief you are correct historically speaking.
Most of current publicly popular occultism formed after renaissance.

>>23800385
>that means all the bad shit you did in your life is cool
It's called "forgiveness." Your phrasing makes it sound like God enjoys sin.
>>23800386
Read 1 Peter 2:24. Christ was punished (penal) to save us from God's wrath (atonement). Sacrificial atonement is explicitly described and prescribed by God multiple times (e.g., passover, animal sacrifices)

>>23800395
The crucifixion wasn't transactional. Christ's death didn't absolve us of our sins, it showed us how not to sin. He died so that we could follow his example and live in righteousness, not so that we could ascend without self transformation.

Whats more transformational than crawling out from under the thumb of mythos?

>>23800326
you have never even touched a Bible have you?

>>23800396
>Heb. 9:22 "without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness"
Without Christ's suffering all our good works would be filthy rags.
> Eph. 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God"
Our self transformation is not enough, we require God's mercy and grace.

>>23800324
What about the problem of Heaven?

>>23800324
giga redpill that people here won’t like
you’re right. there is no eternal hell. god won’t sustain the existence of souls that separate themselves from him eternally. instead, they fade away or are destroyed. thin about it like turning the volume of music down to zero. it might still be playing but it makes no difference because you can’t hear it. thats what happens to souls that carry too much hatred of god. also, god makes them aware of what is happening because he doesn’t trick people. that’s why there is gnashing of teeth and pain, because people realise what they have missed out on.

that’s why it is called the second death. it’s the real death of a soul in eternity rather than the temporary death of the body here.

Religion is for faggots. I hate religious people, I hope they die, that's all.

ITT: "this is what I think it means :3"

>>23800364
all the stuff about angels sinning from perfect knowledge is later headcanon btw. we don’t actually know and arent told.

>>23800372
This is what kids are invoking when they do the "6 7" meme by the way, the weighing of hands against one another, the Bapohmet is even making a 6 and 7 with its hands

>>23800403
well as opposed to what jesus christ comes to the 4chan thread and tells you?

>>23800399
That means our blood, not Christ's blood. Purging ourselves of vice is what's meant by "shedding of the blood". Us being shown how to live righteously is God's mercy, but it's up to us not to waste that mercy by living in self-indulgence and vice. Dispassion and detachment are absolutely necessary if you want to enter heaven, even if Logos incarnated 100 more times to die for your sake.

>>23800399
Protestants that throw random singular passages from the bible which is a church document composed by the church created by Jesus himself is insane to me, especially when we have direct apostolic father's who can first hand tell us what apostles believed.
Atonement is not substitutionary, it is in the oussia/nature of man. Christ in his blood sacrifice created a deified human, the second Adam, as Paul says "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned...for as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous. There is penal substitution but the substitution is not absolute, it is in Adam versus the second Adam, there was not a break in trinity this is heresy, God the father can not separate God the son from himself.

>>23800406
This is church father understanding of Satan from the very start of Christianity, literally starting from the first century. Saint Irenaeus identifies Satan as a fallen angel who fell through pride and identifies him with the origin of sin in Eden.

>>23800327
Source?

>>23800324
Paradise ought to be eternal

So if hell isn't eternal, after being done with hell you'd be able to enjoy paradise for eternity

The eternity of enjoyment of paradise would make any limited time in hell meaningless, even a very large one ie 1000 years

Therefore hell ought to be eternal

>>23800408
In Exodus 12, God told the believers to sacrifice a lamb (a picture of Christ, the lamb of God) and put its blood on their doorposts as a sign. If they had it, they would be spared, otherwise, they would not. Does not sound non-substitutionary.

>>23800411
its a good argument except that the souls fade away rather than persisting forever in hell

>>23800409
yeah its an early headcanon like eternal concious torment. god will be all in all, evil people fade away for eternity. god wont sustain them for zero reason.

>>23800324
Imagine being God. Now imagine trillions of beings all insulting you for no reason, abusing you for no reason. It wouldn't take long for you to crush an ant that is biting you. If God's creation turns against God then they need to be destroyed, otherwise everything and everyone is stuck in a hell of their own making. God wants good energy, not shitty energy. Anyone producing shitty energy gets destroyed, but there is a grace period.

>>23800326
The bible refers to it.

>>23800330
>Baphomet, another name for Satan
Know how I know this was made by a zoomer?

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Luke 2:1-7 (KJV) And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
(And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Tonight we light the Christ candle. And long have we awaited our Saviors birth, again.
Has anyone seen Berserk. Remember the Advent in that? Miura knew something that is true in our Saviors advent as well, and that's that the story in which he comes into the world says many things about him.
So far in this story you have old faithful priests. An ordinary man from the line of David, a faithful woman going to be counted in the census decreed by Rome, some shepherds, a son promised by God to an elderly couple leaping for joy at the news of the Saviors birth.
But, even in this humility Christ's birth still couldn't prevent a certain king Herod from taking notice and making sure he holds on to this position and wise men, kings even, from coming to pay tribute.

>>23800324
Jesus died for our sins.
That’s it.

The people obsessed with people going to hell are the ones taking pleasure in «being superior».
Horrible people. Usually catholics or ortodox, thinking they can get away with being horrible people on a technicality or «buying themselves out of problems».

>>23800324
Dude, Christians cannot agree on anything, including Hell as eternal destination or concept or as the death of the final soul (aka oblivion).
Christians cannot even agree on all of the 10 commandments.
Humans have a habit of being self-serving and trying to bend anything to their self-serving goals.

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Everybody wants Jesus in 2025. Whether they are Herod, afraid of what his birth means to his status, or wise men that see his significance and humbly worship, shepherds that come to observe the fulfillment of God's promises, priests that have been waiting their entire lives to see him or his very parents who God has chosen to be vessels for the promise he made to Abraham so long ago, that he would bless all of the nations through his seed.
And we have been blessed, anons. Let us please remember this most holy night how God has blessed us and has remained with us and been faithful to us even though the world hasn't been.
Merry Christmas.

>>23800337
You are anti-Christ and you’ll be paid accordingly.

>>23800324
The suffering is for choosing to worship something other than the one true God. By falling into sin, without struggle, you effectively code your own pleasure or comfort or convenience over worship of God, the one who made you and all things. The point isnt to be perfect, but to struggle towards perfection. Even the most holy man after Christ is a sinner. His mercy is greater than all the sun in the world, and simply because God does as He pleases, we can't be saved because that is what God wants. There was a saint who said, "imagine the horror of a man becoming a caterpillar in order to teach other caterpillars and save them... That would be a knee distance than for God to become man and do the same to us. So glorious was His incarnation, and so unworthy are we, that the least we could do is lift up our hearts in gratitude" (paraphrasing).

The place of torment is isolation and distance from God. I'm sure we can each unfortunately accurately envision a true living hell right here on earth, but imagine the gravity of the final judgment, when the living and the dead will be judged according to their deeds. It's a simple thing God asks for, and it isn't much: freely come and choose me, and forsake the distractions of the material world, and inherit the neverending kingdom; become a son of God by adoption. The alternative is to clutch at the earth and die anyway, and then be judged as one who heard but did not want to hear, and didn't like what he heard, and preferred comforting words over the ever living Word of God.

>>23800406
NO, AS OPPOSED TO LOOKING UP HUMAN ANATOMY AND ENTROPY AND DECOMPOSITION AND THERMODYNAMICS AND LEARNING YOU ALL JUST WAX POETIC AND IT WILL GET YOU NOWHERE YOU FAGGOTS

>>23800412
It is substitutionary but not in an ultimate sense as in on a level of essence, this is something protestants just seem not to be able to grasp because you do not have clear distinctions of nature, energies, will and person.
God can not have an internal break of communion in between persons or in his nature, if you claim this you are directly an antitrinitarian heretic.
Christ who is personally the divine logos lived in human nature as full human hypostatically in union with his full divinity, the linchpin being his personhood because he is the same person and the same agent.
Christ, since he is fully human, did the exact opposite of Adam and became the second Adam in himself by sacrificing himself and experiencing human death which is separation of human soul from the human body.
In doing this and afterwards defeating death through resurrection Christ has substituted the fallen human nature in Adam with the deified transfigurational human nature in himself as Jesus Christ.
If you believe in Christ, truly not just in words, but if you put your entire being down to be in communion with Christ you are saved because if you are in old Adam you are fallen but if you are in new Adam you are icon of God once more.
If you believe in absolute penal substitution where it wasn't about restoring humanity in Christ as second Adam but about just punishment and God needing to exclusively pour out his wrath than you need to believe that a break in trinity happened because you believe that exclusively Father poured out infinite wrath on his Son in a divine eternal sense in the level of essence.

>>23800324
None of you truly know what will happen.

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>>23800412
It's explicitly non-substitutionary, because what that represents is the importance of placing man's higher nature and rationality above man's lower nature and appetites. It's basically saying that only those who imitate Christ can follow Christ. If it were substitutionary, then there would have been no need to do anything, protection would have been assured.

>>23800324
You are not and never have been a Christian, and you don't understand Christianity or Hell on even the most basic level. That's your retarded shilling falls flat and you just end up looking like a moron.

>>23800413
If you believe that Christian saints in direct line of communion with apostles as early as first century were already wrong you might as well concede entire Christianity because you must certainly wouldn't have a better idea 2000 years later than the people who recently knew Christ or people who knew Christ personally. Why would you even trust canon of the Bible that was compiled by the same church fathers?

>>23800327
He was broke and had heart disease. Too many ex-wives and too much alimony. A man ordered to pay alimony never gets to retire... never is allowed to get sick... never allowed to stop paying.

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>>23800415
God showed me the hell dimension. It's like an M.C. Escher labyrinth sketch that is forever transforming around your movements to keep you trapped in the same place forever. The people there are zombie-like and move in packs, everything is predatory and strange. It's like... I was in a mansion, and everyone there was a vampire, witch, warlock, and they had this incredible energy and force, but it was all from absorbing the fear loosh energy of the "newbies" they would terrorize. They would chase me and attack to instill fear, but if I didn't react they would stop and just kind of... wait for another surge of panic or for me to try and escape so they could chase me again. When trying to escape, for instance, I could see out the window of the mansion to the front yard, but when I exited the front door to get to the yard I had seen out the window it had changed completely... and when I rounded a corner to get my bearing the entire landscape changed completely again... it's a place where you can never get to where you are trying to go. Very bizarre.

>>23800419
Christians can agree, it's just that Americans think that a non-denominational church founded by billy bob in 2002 is equal to the orthodox church where every local patriarchy routinely has thousand+ year old consistent texts about theology.

>>23800329
>You get punished for sinning but not an eternity in hell
You will spend an eternity suffering in hell, because hell IS the existence isolated in the darkness, forever separate from God's love and light.
It's ok if you have sinned, God doesn't expect you to be perfect and He will forgive you. All you need to do is repent and ask for forgiveness.
But yeah, if you refuse to accept his love and forgiveness out of stubborness or stupidity, then yeah, enjoy spending eternity in hell.
It's not God's fault, He literally did everything possible to give you an opportunity to escape that fate, but you refused to follow the one path to salvation.

>>23800426
It is substitutionary in Christ as in he substitutes old Adam. Then by believing in Christ and thus choosing to put down your whole life to be like Christ through faith you participate in the communion with second Adam.
It is not absolutely penal substitutionary in protestant sense.

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>>23800324
Hell doesnt' even mean what you think it means. It doesn't have the connotation of evil, demons, punishment, fire, etc. The word "hell" is not Biblical. Its old English but goes back to old Germanic/Dutch HEL. It means "cover." It's where we get the words Cellar, Hall, Hull of a ship, Conceal, and Helmet. The connotation is to cover something completely up. The most accurate use of HEL is Germanic and Nordic where people were buried or covered over with dirt. Thus, they went to HEL or the hidden place covered over place of the dead. Or the HALL of The Dead. This perfectly coincides with the Bible's Sheol and Greek Hades. Sheol and Hades are AMMORAL. Neither good nor evil go there. So it means that's where the dead go in general.

Pagans invented it hell, The Catholic Church adopted it. In the OT wherever you see "hell" the original word is She'ol. She'ol is just the common grave of mankind. In the NT, wherever you see the word "hell" the original word is Hades. It is also just the grave of mankind.

So there are two kinds of hells in the Bible.

One is temporary
>hades
>She'ol

One is permanent
>Gehenna
>Lake of Fire

When Jesus is quoted as saying "hell" it is actually Gehenna. Gehenna means "Valley of Hinnom." It was a garbage dumb that was lit on permanent fire with sulfur. They threw trash in it. When they executed criminals they threw there bodies in it as well. If the bodies slipped out the worms would get it. Thus, Gehenna represents total annihilation with no escape and no memory.

Those in Hades/She'ol are waiting to be resurrected and it's for everyone who has died. Those in Gehenna/Lake of Fire are destroyed permanently. No resurrection for them. THIS is for bad people. Because of the over-generalized translation of "hell" everywhere nobody can understand the truth about death and resurrection

>>23800324
>>23800434
The Bible teaches that the dead are unconscious and go back to oblivion, or non-existence.

>Isaiah 38:18,19 - 18 For it is not She´ol that can laud you; death itself cannot praise you. Those going down into the pit cannot look hopefully to your trueness. The living, the living, he is the one that can laud you, Just as I can this day.

>Psalms 6:5 - For in death there is no mention of you; In Sheol who will laud you?

>Psalms 88:10 - For those who are dead will you do a marvel? Or will those impotent in death themselves arise, Will they laud you? Selah.

>Psalms 146:4 - His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.

>Psalm 88:12 - Will a marvel by you be known in the darkness itself, Or your righteousness in the land of oblivion?

>Psalms 115:17 - 17 The dead themselves do not praise Jah, Nor do any going down into silence.

>(Ecclesiastes 3:18-20) I, even I, have said in my heart with regard to the sons of mankind that the [true] God is going to select them, that they may see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. 20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust.

>Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 - 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun.

>>23800434
See:
>>23800430

>>23800324
It all stems from a misunderstanding of concepts like
>Hell
>Evil
>Sin
Hell is absence of God
Evil is corruption of what is good
Sin I don't really understand myself but seemingly wrongdoing in the eyes of the divine Creator

>>23800324
>>23800434
>>23800435
There is no hell in the Bible. Only going back to the grave. This is God's opinion on burning people alive.

>Jeremiah 19:5 - And they built the high places of the Baal in order to burn their sons in the fire as whole burnt offerings to the Baal, something that I had not commanded or spoken of, and that had not come up into my heart.”’

>Jeremiah 32:35 - Furthermore, they built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to make their sons and their daughters pass through [the fire] to Molech, a thing that I did not command them, neither did it come up into my heart to do this detestable thing, for the purpose of making Judah sin.’

>Jeremiah 7:31 - And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.’

God admitted three times up above he would never command anyone to do that nor would he ever think of doing that himself. If God created hell that would make God a huge hypocrite because he is doing it on a grander scale. However, God doesn't burn people alive in any way. He lets them die and cease to exist. So if you refuse to submit to God than you will go to oblivion, not hell

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>>23800324
Any infinite punishment for a finite crime is of Satan, who prefers to be called "Yahweh"

>>23800434
You are a literal heretic that manages to be simultaneously arian and nestorian. Your "church" was funded by a shizophrenic coping sect in fallout of American turmoil, completely divorced from historical church and continuous ongoing Christianity that never had a break, and your entire eschatology relied on seething apocalyptic predictions that failed multiple times in a row.
You are effectively as heretical as a Muslim.

>>23800324
There is no eternal punishment, hell is separation from God

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>>23800430
>>23800436
>God showed me the hell dimension.

Revelation 16:14-They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs,

>>23800433
I see what you mean about substituting Adam, I'd agree with that. The desert fathers describe Christ's death as an inversion of the fall, wherein he defeats death by allowing it to eat what it can't digest. But he doesn't and can't substitute for us, which is what that other anon seems to be implying. Each of us is responsible for our own salvation, by exercising detachment and dispassion, or making ourselves an imitation of Christ insofar as it's possible for us.

>>23800439
The crimes aren't finite and you know that, every sinner engages in an eternal loop of sin daily.

>>23800431
Your orthodox circus act has no authority to damn anyone or judge anyone's faith. Take your man made idols and business enterprise somewhere else.

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>>23800442
God directly revealed things to me, I am Jehovah's actual witness, not a larper like you.

>>23800445
>man made idols
But protestantism is idolatry, by definition. It's the belief that the letter is more essential than the spirit.

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>>23800440

>>23800324
Hell is not eternal. Revelations is very clear on this. Everyone in Hell is considered to have atoned for their sins through their suffering, and join everyone in Heaven. Satan is cast into a lake of fire and destroyed. Maybe try reading the Bible, faggot.

>>23800446
>God directly revealed things to me,

2 Cor 11:14-15 14And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works

>>23800449
Hell is eternal because there is no time there. Time just doesn't exist there, same as heaven. It's not possible to serve time there because there is no time.

>>23800445
I genuinely can't care about what your non denominational pastor Bob tells you, I can go to my 3rd century basilica across the street and pray the same prayers that apostolic father's left me.
It's just hilarious to image the complete mental delusion of following bible but not the church fathers that compiled it, because it begs the question why do you even follow the bible if you think that the church that compiled it is fallible?
Go become a gnostic heretic then.

What kind of misunderstanding of hell (and suffering) are you all laboring under?
From my understanding, "sin" means "to turn away from God".
If you completely turn away from him, you are choosing, effectively, "I don't want to be with you". After all, if you did, you would strive to keep his commandments.
I think so far most are still with me.

1. Hell itself isn't so much fire and brimstone and the kind of suffering portrayed in Dante's inferno, but rather being excluded from God's presence and grace in the afterlife.
Judgement happens, during which you feel the full weight of God, and then afterwards it's basically a "well... this is it, now. Forever."
If I had to give a shitty metaphor it would be like basking in the sun and enjoying a wonderfuul catnap only to then be thrust into a dark room knowing you will never sunbathe again.
2. The second understanding I have of it, is simple non-existence. If God is Life, and you chose to turn away from God, you effectively chose to turn away from Life, and thus you will experience the True Death.
What messes with me is that this second explanation is basically an inverted Buddhism belief (whereas no longer existing is bad instead of good).

I don't think it's "hehe you're going to be poked with this cattle iron forever"

>>23800359
This is almost an entirely US specific evangelical protestantism, wrought by the Jews for the precise dual pronged purpose of enriching themselves while turning those sensitive to the absurdity (like yourself) away from the Faith.
I'm sorry to say but you're reacting precisely as the jews want with this mindset.
200, even 100 years ago this wasn't a problem, ergo it's not "Christianity" that's the problem, it's the taint of judaism encroaching upon our culture.

if hell has an end point, people will just be like "well, i'll spend a trillion years suffering, but at least at some point it will end"

no, there is no end. its your forever, that you chose

God is not messing around. get onboard with the program or suffer beyond your deepest imaginings

>>23800428
you are confusing me with some 80iq evangelical.
church fathers made mistakes all the time. the stuff about imperfect and perfect knowledge of sin is theologoumenon, not some settled doctrine.

>>23800454

people literally dont realize they're dealing with A GOD. THE GOD. like who are you, puny human? you would shit your pants in front of a tiger, or even a scary aggressive man. but not when it comes to a self existent eternal God?

>>23800324
why are you weaponizing robin Williams you nigger

>>23800454
Answered >>23800434
>>23800435
>>23800438

>>23800452
Compilation is not the same as composition, friend

>>23800454
the end is you fade away and stop existing as an identity

>>23800453
>2. The second understanding I have of it, is simple non-existence.

Answered >>23800435

>>23800454
Of course, the funny part is that the fire IS god's love.
They suffer because they cannot accept him.

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>>23800450
If it was satan that revealed those things to me you wouldn't be attacking me, because I would be like you. But because it was God that showed me, you attack me.

But of course because you are a rich beggar that preys on widows houses, the church is a house of demons, just like when Christ first chastised the pharisees.

>>23800324
Just be a universalist Christian.
Scripture already supports this but you need to know Greek

https://benthams.substack.com/p/universalism-a-comprehensive-defense?utm_source=publication-search

>>23800327
Auto erotic asphyxiation, son. The only difference between that and suicide is who finds the body.

>>23800430
Sounds like the rat race here on Earth.

>>23800459
Yes but you need to trust the authority of compilation, otherwise there is no reason to trust that the books compiled have authority over rejected gnostic texts or apocryphal book of Enoch.

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>>23800359
>99%
I mean zionists RAKE IT IN, BOY! YEEHAW! The Bible warned us about these kinds of things. Did Jesus have a masdive consensus when he walked the earth? Didn't Paul warn about trying to pander to the wealthy? It shouldn't be surprising. There are new challenges every day as there always have been. Don't let go of that baby. What has God done with those challenges in the past? Made them work to his glory.

well i'm kind of a materialistic Christian

and as I understand, the eternal hell is where you actually get the modern civilization, if you're doing wrong choices
and haven is also a place where you can bring the modern civilization with right choices

if you choose wrong, a global flood happens
with ocean being the code word for the proverbial chaos


as for the personal terms... sure aesoteric souls might exist in a materialistic way as in "grandpa on a cloud" or something, why not?

but currently we can only prove the existing of someone's legacy
your legacy lives on after your death

unfortunately people aren't researching publicly on what's the viral part of the said legacy, that would be replicated by the people inheriting it, making your legacy live forever (along with your soul in a sense)

>>23800466
Yes, but increased by a factor of ten, at least. The only thing desirable there is escape, but there is no refuge.

God doesn't exist, kill yourself, it will stop the pain. Imaginary sky people should not stop you from doing what must be done.

>>23800324
not liking hell doesn't make it any less real

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>>23800324
No. Quit being a fag.

>>23800472
It’s a man made place moron

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Yo, you can stop being religious schizo retards it is 2025.
The D&D player handbook edition 2 is just a live action roleplaying game.
Just say no.
Live in objective reality, do math for dummies, find employment, make manager.

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>>23800324
reverse pascals wager anon. same concept, except you siding with jews i.e. as a christian against your creators = you go to tartarus (hell)

yes, it really is that easy to btfo the hell "problem".
"resist not evil" - are you kidding me? youre on the baddies side anon

>>23800463
i would call you a bullshit artist but you are 100% correct that there is no time in hell or heaven. that’s one of the few (very few) things god revealed to me directly. it’s useful to keep in mind because anyone who talks about heaven or hell in terms of duration obviously doesn’t know what they are talking about. they collapse experiences outside of spacetime back down into spacetime with actions in sequence. the afterlife is an eternal, single present moment. it’s extremely interesting how few NDEs or visions of the afterlife mention this which makes me think they are fake. any that mention millions or billions of years are totally fake.

however it’s ultimately not good to focus too hard on the nature of the afterlife as we need to address our urgent problems here.

>>23800430
its like a treadmill, only youre pushing a boulder up a steep cliff

>>23800369
It's the principle of the matter, not the result.
Why would a man leave his wife just because she cheated on him if he knows it will mean a life spent alone? To him, it's the less intolerable choice.
Alternatively, why does a man dissatisfied with the current political situation in the US choose to shoot up a grocery store full of non political targets? Even they for the most part know it's fruitless, yet still do it.
Ultimately, as beings who can not understand either God or Satan upon our brief time allotted to us now, it's an answer we can only largely speculate at.

I've looked into this issue. Long story short, the Bible is actually very vague about hell -- the whole "fire and brimstone" shtick is far less Christian than many would want you to believe. Watch some videos on it; folks like Inspiring Philosophy have said it more succinctly than I can.

Islam, however, is very graphic about hell. Supposedly.

>>23800479
Because there are 4 billion women in the world why would he settle for her dumbass

>>23800463
>1 Corinthians 13:8-8Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with.

Miracles were done away with 2K years ago. That includes visions. Anything today is from Satan.

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>Any other Christians here...
Sorry, but I stopped reading right there you fake ass nigger

>>23800480
the original term for hell is gehenna, which is essentially a flaming pile of trash you throw things you don’t care what happens to anymore. probably because keeping them near you would be an infinitely worse outcome for them - eternal torment even.

>>23800327
He was clinically depressed.

>>23800324
It is literally not in the Bible.

>>23800477
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" - 2 Peter 3:8 KJV

a day for God is like 1000 years here. you're dealing with a being who has existed so long, through echoes of eternity, that to him 1000 years is like our sense of a day

thats insane

>>23800324
Hell is a memetic virus that sneaks into religions. It's an adherence promoter

If you understand English and basic logic this should be pretty evident after reading what I wrote. Not much to say about it.

Humans weep and gnash their teeth when not being able to appreciate the full glory of God as they can see others doing in the early Paradise.

>>23800481
My example was to presume the man felt like myself, which I understand now was not conveyed well.
I'm alone. I suffered a break up in the past.
It was enough to completely turn me off of romantic relationships. I have not dated in maybe 8 years, and I am still otherwise "young", so not grey and wrinkly yet.
There may be 4 billion women in the world but as of now I care not for the touch or affections of any of them.

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There is no magical hell or heaven in the sky, it all starts and ends right here, on this Earth. You're born in your mother's womb, there was nothing before that. After you die, there's gonna be nothing too. No physical feeling, no soul, no mysterious "void", ghosts, nothing. It's basically a dreamless sleep from which you never wake up, because "You" stop existing.

Most of you guys (including me) are already 30, and we have around 40 good years left, 60 if we take good care of our health, and probably 75-80 more years if we're really really genetically lucky. So on average, 50 more yrs. You gotta do what you gotta do in these 50 yrs. Kill someone and waste time by going to jail for 20 yrs, spend 10 yrs struggling for a medical degree but end up making $300k/yr, gamble your money on a business that fails and wageslave for 10 yrs to make it all back. Abuse your parents, wife, kids.
Do what you must.
>>23800325
>>23800326
>>23800327
>>23800329
>>23800331
>>23800332

>>23800328

>>23800467
I’m not Catholic, I don’t know whether those Gnostic texts are false. They could be correct, so I won’t ignore or discount them. The other books, especially those about the teachings of Jesus, are fine of course.

>>23800471
Notice how the atheist niggers are literally advocating for suicide
lol, lmao even

>>23800324
You can't be sure that god isn't a contrarian who sends believers to hell for the laughs.

>>23800477
>we need to address our urgent problems here.

Actually, that is what causes them in the first place. Jesus Christ told us to "not worry about tomorrow..." people operating from a foundation of worry is what empowers the systems of evil in the first place. It's a catch-22 type scenario. Very frustrating, our demonic human nature can't comprehend it so it's a constant internal battle.

>>23800353
Nice theologic dissertation. Did your tranny professor write it for you?

>>23800326
the new testament is made-up hellenized LARP. I agree with you.
Hell is alluded to in the OT tho. It isn't that it isn't in there, it is, but it's never threatened or used as a punishment.

>>23800486
It is Satan, can you give us some anecdotal stories about it? In Greek it's called Hades which is in the Bible but there are also many mentions of a place of outer darkness as well which is amalgamated as the same thing. Over and over again we're told about being cast out, often with metaphors about harvesting, but sometimes with metaphors about being rejected.

>>23800487
one day = a thousand years
a thousand years = one day

sure sounds like a descriptive method of imparting the knowledge that chronology is meaningless outside of spacetime (so that desert people will be able to recite it and write it down and have it resonate and be memorable)

>>23800324
>The notion of eternal suffering for transient sins
That's why I'm looking forward to Heaven where I'll spend eternity in a church listening to Jesus personally give mass.

>>23800494
there’s a huge difference between worrying about our tomorrow here vs what will happen to us if we die and are not saved (which is separate from speculating on the nature of hell and heaven metaphysically)
dont see how you could hold otherwise. “repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand”

>>23800492
when they take a break from watching porn they tend to come here and do that. totally demented, i feel sorry for them.

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>>23800493
There is nothing more evil than people that claim to know God better than God knows himself. How can people call themselves "believers" when they twist God's words for their own perversions?

>>23800324
Many are turned away from Christianity because of the apparent horrible nature of God. There are undeniable inconsistencies in God's character. But what if I told you that Yahweh was the name Satan gave to be worshipped as a god? All good things come from the Father, while Satan only steals, kills, and destroys. The "LORD" in the old testament is a mixture of Yahweh and the Father. You can discern which by the action.
Those who see Jesus see the Father. They are of the same character. And we know the Father is unchanging. Therefore, Jesus should be a vengeful, hateful, and murderous person. But he was not. So, there must be something wrong with the old testament "god." And Jesus says as much.
>Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?
Yahweh sent venomous snakes to kill the people who asked for food.
Any time Jesus said, "it is said," he is taking a false teaching of Yahweh and correcting it. Jesus called the followers of Yahweh "children of satan," and the "synagogue of satan." If you read the Bible and think about what is written, it becomes clear. The Father hates death. It is one of His enemies. Regarding eternal punishment, it does not seem in character for a loving Father. I have not found anything that makes sense so far, however, I have heard the word used for "forever" in that usage is a mistranslation of "an unspecified amount of time."

>>23800463
Canaanite not Cain.
Satan is the Devil and Ham's son was cursed "Black as a Crow"

>>23800503
>So, there must be something wrong with the old testament "god."
The old testament is basically pure allegory, according to the original fathers. Slaying the Egyptian foreigner, killing the first-borns and drowning the pharaoh in the parted sea are all metaphorical. "The Egyptian life" is an allegory for the life of vice and self indulgence, so when their first-born are killed, that's meant to represent the fact that vices are supposed to be dealt with in their infancy, before they become full blown habits. You can check out Gregory of Nyssa's Life of Moses if you want to know more about that story specifically, and there are other early fathers who go over other explanations for what each story is actually meant to represent.

>>23800324
>is an absurdity
lol

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>>23800504
You mean like this?

>>23800503
>Regarding eternal punishment, it does not seem in character for a loving Father.
This thought has been on my mind a long time but I have not been able to put it into words so succinctly.

>>23800508
How would you like to be in heaven with a person that raped and killed your parents? How about being in heaven with a person that raped and tortured you? Doesn't sound like Heaven if everyone is let in.... that's what THIS current world is... the "purgatory", the middle ground between Heaven and Hell. You've never experienced true evil done to you, if you had, you wouldn't mind them being punished, unless you are a masochist.

>>23800508
lmfao, your mcdonalds idea of love isnt real. real love HATES

>>23800447
>protestantism is idolatry
No.
>>23800447
>>23800452
orthodox and roman catholics venerate humans as saints, objects and rituals as holy, and people/ organizations has spiritual leaders worthy of changing/ defining Christianity. Completely heretical nonsense from those that believe salvation comes from and through an organization, rituals, etc controlled and invented by people/ man. That is the ultimate in worldly idols vs spiritual devotion.

>>23800503
Jesus also says he will turn away. He says let the spiritually dead bury their own dead. If a man doesn't hate his family he can't love me!
He is truly his Father's Son expecting nothing less than complete devotion. Telling his followers they have such little faith, you don't just walk out on the surface of a storm to prove your divinity to your followers to, bro. I'll help you not drown. Just like our heavenly father.
Exodus 6:6-8 (KJV) Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:
And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

I really want you to focus on his outstretched arm and great judgements. You've confessed, atoned, been forgiven by God the Lord of all creation for your sins except for the consequences in your material life. He tried to warn you anon, go to him again.
Hosea 6:1-2 (KJV) Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

This isn't permission to go whore yourself under him again.

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>>23800324
Much of spirituality and religious teachings are vague. Translation from ancient languages to current dialects makes it even harder. Men will disagree. That’s why there are concordances and prayer. You need to find the answers for yourself because it’s your spiritual path.

http://www.storyflight.com/four-phases-of-spiritual-development-part-i

https://www.biblehub.com/strongs.htm

https://www.biblestudytools.com/concordances/

>>23800511
Orthodox teaches that salvation comes through the imitation of Christ. Through personal transformation and the adoption of the virtues. Nowhere anywhere in their teachings does it say you need rituals or organization. The desert fathers went out into the desert to practice specifically because they didn't care for organized religion and wanted to get closer to God personally through meditation and asceticism. Meanwhile, protestantism teaches that the Bible should be taken literally and at face value despite the fact that the Bible literally says not to take it literally or at face value.

>>23800514
In some Protestant tradition Jesus is three things. He is God, He is teacher, He is friend. Sometimes you're seeing the side of Him that is God, when he tells you you're Satan for defying a divine plan you don't understand. Sometimes (most of the time) he is a teacher and leader breaking many things down. And oftentimes he is friend enjoying his time with you mortals. God always did seek out a personal connection with his people. He always spoke in a language they can understand like a human trying to be a horned worm. (They're so antisocial and constantly attacked by much smaller bugs and pecked away by birds). Trying to turn that mess into a decent moth isn't going to be without conflict.

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>>23800514
>Orthodox teaches that salvation comes through the imitation of Christ. Through personal transformation and the adoption of the virtues.

What they REALLY don't want people to know is that anyone can participate in miracles, but Satan, crafty and genius, designed "society" (Babel) to be in DIRECT opposition to the pre-requisites of performing miracles. First and foremost of those obstacles, the most insidious blockage, is money, Mammon the demon. Money is the foremost thing that separates man from God, and yet it is the most ubiquitous and unquestioned thing in modernity.

>>23800495
your mom wrote it for me
after i fucked her lmao

>>23800359
>>23800516

>>23800324
imagine how much robin williams fucked up. kills himself because muh feelings. immediately spawns into a lake of fire where suddenly the only thing your mind can do is convert pain to regret for all eternity. out of the frying pan, into the fire.

>>23800325
What a horrible video. People don't watch it

>>23800324
Pick up Dharma.
If you are bad, you respawn and have to live through this shit again.
If you are good, you don't respawn.
Your live on Earth is essentially a prison sentence and every 80 years or so, the parole committee decides if your sentence gets prolonged.

>>23800324
It sounds even dumber when you realize that robin williams suffered from lewy body dementia. your brain is slowly melting away the regions of the brain that keep you happy and content. He probably felt depression so severe that he felt like he was being burned alive in a flaming building with the last only option to be to jump.

>>23800521
That's funny, because one of the things that was revealed to me when God spoke to me was "You won't have to re-incarnate after this lifetime". He let me know the good news.

>>23800324
That’s not Christian doctrine that’s Puritan nonsense.
The Bible doesn’t talk about people “going to heaven” or “going to hell” when they die.
It talks about the day of resurrection when people are raised from the dead judged. Christian eschatology sees the end of days as an ultimate fulfilment of God’s creation where everything is set in order in God’s perfect justice.
To whatever extent humans fail to enter the Kingdom of God it’s because they reject Christ. Not because of “transient sin”. The message of Christ is to repent and try to make amends in this life BEFORE the last judgement. Because once you’re dead you won’t have an opportunity to repent.
And what can be done about and unrepentant sinner? That’s not “transient”. That’s someone set in their ways to do evil.

>>23800324
Hell is a self imposed punishment that you suffer while you're alive; unable to forgive yourself for what you've done. Wallowing in a pit of regret and despair wondering how different things could have been if you could only have...

>>23800332
> these other godly deities will give you extremely cool super natural powers like Dragon Ball Z
Listen to yourself.

>>23800336
Gnostic fucking retard

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>>23800525
Stop lying, rabbi. You should know about the dimensional layers.

>>23800490
80+ years being you, hell no.

>>23800519
>convert pain to regret for all eternity
the jester gets the joker's end. what fate is this? the man that gave the world a smile has to live in sadness infinitely.

>"You get a real strong sense of God when you go through rehab,” Robin Williams told Daswani. He said he came out of rehab a better man. “Having the idea of a really loving and forgiving God really helps if you’re an alcoholic"
christcucks lie like they breathe

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>>23800530
Besides money, the second most insidious and ubiquitous pitfall trap is sex. If the riches don't send you hell, the sexual immorality will.

>John Wesley's attitude toward Martin Luther was deeply ambivalent, characterized by intense spiritual gratitude and significant theological disagreement.

I love you all and wish we didn't hurt each other so badly. For a few days approximately 2 days short if two weeks.

>>23800531
>loving and forgiving God really helps if you’re an alcoholic
the struggle with God is not based on loving or forgiving Him. it is about being who you are, loving and forgiving yourself with the help of Christ. We are all a fallen saga. A story with specific twists and turns. Peppered with regret. Enriched with mere moments of elation. God is all. If you reject all, you are less than nothing because nothing is what you desire. I appreciate this vision of life. This gift of taking part and taking place in a Universe that is.
>>23800532
>immorality
pick your poison, anon. anything can be immoral. greed and disconnection and idolatry and sexual pleasure. any vice can become sin. women are inviting merely through their existence. you stand at that door always, when you walk through it, and who is given that energy and time is the real question.

>>23800514
I would not presume to understand what every non-denominational or denominational Christian believes. Salvation comes through faith in God's grace and personal relationship with Jesus.
The Bible does not say if it should be taken literally or not. Salvation does not come through memorizing the Bible nor venerating it as some idol. If someone take the Bible as the literal word, then that is up to them. Christians cannot even agree on the Bible canon, version, translation, etc, so that is a whole gigantic topic in of itself.

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>>23800534
Money, sex, drugs. Money, sex, drugs. Money, sex, drugs. Same old pied piper, same old song and dance. Dance with the devil in the pale moonlight, but don't come crying when it's time to pay the bill.

>>23800536
merry Christmas anon, I hope these times smile upon us all.

>>23800536
EVERYBODY DIES.

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>>23800535
But, you'll be a lot cooler if you do. Just learn the shit on your own with your barenaked eyes.

>>23800324
anon had a dream we allready live in hell but we cant see it.

>>23800538
That's not the point, the point is that this is a spiritual testing ground, the sorting hat. If you can't even recognize that you are screwed.

>>23800364
Well said
I hope you're Catholic brother

>>23800535
After all, he created you with eyeballs, shoulders to tell everyone what you think. A neck that subhumans use to bobble. Arms to really illustrate what you're thinking.

>>23800535
Hands, to rub together as you covet. Our God is so great.

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>>23800540
More like, this is the highest level of purgatory and the lowest level of heaven. The demons want you to go lower, the angels want you to go higher. Don't confuse this for anything but the middle ground, because if you think this is hell, you won't like how much worse it can actually be.

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>>23800324
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Bible doesn't mention eternal torture anywhere.

It says "the punishment is everlasting" but that could literally mean anything. Maybe your death is forever, since the Bible mentions the second death/destruction often. The guys that get burned, are those that worship the beast.

And as far as I know, only the devil, Antichrist and the false prophet and fallen angels will be tormented day and night forever.

I think in the book of Enoch, when he sees the punishment of an angel, he gets really anxious because that fallen angel was burning as a punishment. He thought, similar to you, that it was horrendous, but the angel that guided him and explained things to him was confused by his anxiety. To the Angel this was perfectly appropriate, anything else would be ridiculous. It's been a while so I could be wrong by misremembering. But that's the gist of it

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>>23800546
Antichrist is anyone who denies Christ. There are a LOT of them out there these days....

>>23800434
I wanted to post that I appreciate you. Longsuffering Christian. I don't agree with you but appreciate your faith.

>>23800542
You will probably never met a Catholic Georgian, everyone is orthodox here

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>>23800324
I miss Robin Williams

ITT we pretend repentance doesn't exist

>>23800424
Incredibly well said
Can you please define "sin" for me please in a theological sense and what it means when a brother sins against you

>>23800434
And I double hope God blesses you. How could he not? When you've struggled as much for your faith.

>>23800547
There are people that are Antichrist. But then there is also THE Antichrist. The one guy that will make the blind see, stop wars and bring fire from the sky (probably rockets)

I doubt some goy cattle that was duped into this by force or out of sheer retardation, would be getting the same punishment as the ultimate sinner

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>>23800552
Sin is the moon, to sin is to steal the light of another instead of shining your own from within.

>prove me wrong
Human systems reliably drift toward self-justification. Moral language is easily weaponized, and no worldview escapes this pressure. Meaning cannot be safely outsourced, because it must be practiced deliberately. Locally, this is done humbly by individuals who refuse to sanctify power.

>>23800554
According to the bible THE Antichrist is the one who will "be in the place he should not be, shewing himself that he is God", sounds a lot like (((Israel))) and the (((third temple)))

>>23800552
In Hebrew sin is identified as chata which is to miss the mark/to fail or as Avon which is to transgress.
Therefore there are two main ways to view sin, the primary way to view sin is to fail the goal which is to be the image of God, this image of course is incarnate as Christ himself. Whenever you tarnish your image of God or miss the mark of what you are meant to be such as falling so low as to allowing yourself to worship pornography when you were meant to be the greatest creation in the universe, you sin. Sin against yourself and sin against God who created you.
Similarly when you transgress against another person, commit injustice towards them, you also transgress against the image of God and therefore God.
Sin of pride is dangerous and it was the first sin because it is very alluring. When you are in communion and are ready to give you entire being to God this is infinitely returned to you because God is also ready to give himself to you and imagine how much more that is considering he is infinite.
When you place yourself as the idol instead of having God as your center of worship and communion, you cut yourself away from God and effectively the world, your only result will be to end up locked away in your own solipsistic hell. There is a Georgian proverb
>What you gift is yours, what you hoard is lost
God is giving himself to you, so you should also give yourself to God, but if your "hoard" yourself to yourself you have no life in you, you didn't create the very source of existence, you are like a branch cutting itself from the tree.

>>23800549
Sad.
In a time of universal deceit, I'm not smart enough to parse through all the lies.
But if there's one thing in this world I'm certain of, it's that the Catholic Church is The Bride of Christ.
The Great Schism happened 1,000 years after His time, the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. From what I've seen from "orthobros" I'm not impressed at their constant kvetching anytime the Pope breathes.
A few things I can't really explain is that the Vatican was funded by Rothschilds in the mid 1800s. Vatican means "divining serpent" and the Pope literally invited dancing demons into the Church, behind him the serpent statue.
I can't defend pedophilia, and many other abominations.
Man is in a fallen state

>>23800559
Lol the Catholic church is the Whore of Babylon, complete with purple and scarlet robes and all.

>>23800557
What if the zionist heresy dies? What if nobody makes a run on that dome on the rock most holy site for goatfucking? It won't matter to those that already have your money. Jesus said follow me.

>>23800559
I think bishop of Rome is obviously a valid Bishop and I also think that there might be a certain binding and loosing as well as confirmation of councils as final veto or final vote. But I can not believe in total papal infallibility ex cathedra and I also can not believe that dogma can be codified without councils that include the pentarchy and other patriarchs.
If Rome one day concedes total infallibility and takes up theological developments for universal councils we can restore church. But I doubt Rome can do that since it would mean to concede that papal infallibility was wrong in the first place.
Regardless, laying of hands is real and apostolic succession is real.

>>23800561
Money is worthless these days because the people that have it don't have any use for it, and the people that have use for money don't have it. Either way all kikes are going to hell, lol.

>>23800558
I appreciate the well thought out response lad
People inherently know when they're sinning, yet their pride always prevents them from repentance. And it's important not to force repentance, because that'd be rape. God expects us to come to Him, hence free william.

Can you theologically explain "racism" for me please ?
It doesn't make any sense to me that God created such a rich diversity of cultures only for them to amalgamate as one in flesh physically. We are one in Christ spiritually, but physically we shouldn't lose our blood and culture through miscegenation and immigration, it's completely ludicrous and the Church has only shifted its stance on this after Rothschild funding.
Leviticus 19:19
The Church Fathers were also extremely "racist" towards Jews.
When someone from the negroid species is chimping out and wanting to literally fucking kill you simply for existing and they force us to amalgamate with them, I sometimes question if this creature is from God.
Hamites ? Perhaps. Cursed ? Maybe.

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>>23800564
>When someone from the negroid species is chimping out and wanting to literally fucking kill you simply for existing and they force us to amalgamate with them, I sometimes question if this creature is from God.

Well, they consider Baal to be god (because they are creatures of Baal)... hence why they are all "Ballers".

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>>23800324
Calvini
>Problem of hell
Hell means death, it is the destination where the dead go.
>Eternal suffering.
It is literally blank abyss, it would be retarded to believe dead people will live forever, do you hate reality Anon?
Fire is there to judge you, not comically torture you.
>But why?
Because we sinned, came upon earth, and we deserve to die.
Therefore death exists.
>But heaven?
Heaven is for saints.
>How does that comforts me.
If you are a saint, that it must comfort you because God has chosen you among all people to comfort you.
If you are not, it should comfort you because God's judgement is perfect and fires of hell are like mercy as God is so perfect it should not worry a person.
God decided everything and victory is his.
You and everyone, including me, deserves eternal life in darkness and emptyness and this is death. Rejecting that death exists is rejecting reality itself. Some saints among us, like Elijah and Enoch, might live with God but this is not merely "salvation from fires" but a higher degree of existence.
>but why?
God decided so.
God decided we are mortal beings like animals, as we made us so with our first sin, and God decided to save the saints.
God intends to save everyone and can do so, hypothetical universalism, and possibly all nations on earth will be saved at the final hour but that does not mean humans can not die.

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>>23800330
"Hell (eternal death after the judgement) is not mentioned in Bible"

>>23800566
>>23800567
All kikes are going to eternal hell eventually, but you are going right now.

>>23800324
>Any other Christians here who are lapsing due to the problem of Hell?
Lol, okay, u are a Jew.

>The notion of eternal suffering for transient sins is an absurdity that I can't look past
So in other words, you want to sin without punishment. Sounds Jewish, not Christian, to me.

>>23800568
Good, I am not scared of God's perfect judgement.
But (you) also deserve death, as you carry the first sin.
Or do you think you are amongst the saints? Then you are a proud man, again God didn't preserved you from sin unlike Elijah or Enoch.

>>23800564
Nations exist as organisms as shown in the old testament, they are often judged collectively because the collective of people is evident through the totality of the fruit they bare, this doesn't mean that each individual is guilty but consequences are often total to be final.
There is no reason to intermix because we do not posses the manifest infinite will to fix everything for everyone, therefore we take on only responsibilities that we can contain, self, family, organization, nation, the bigger responsibility you take the more is asked of you and it is a hierarchical pyramid. Ultimately Christ is king of kings and each king who claimed responsibility for something or someone will have to answer before Christ.
A German can not try to fix a Nigerian, that is hubris and pride. If they are to fix themselves as a collective they need to go through a long process before God and only God. Nations can flourish with God as the modern world is built upon Christianity and no seething or revisionism can change that, but that is something they need to do on their own.
By taking in these nations who have their own sins and ills you are not even aware of you are taking in the responsibilities and curses associated with them since effectively west decided to indantilise half of the world and act like their mother.
Imagine taking in middle earnestness who are still brainwashed in their majority by Muhammedean cancer even though they used to follow Christ and the few christians there certainly aren't comfortable, or sub Saharan Africans who were in the pit of complete tribal paganism and demon worship, worse yet in America the Christianity they have is billy bob's non-denominational church or charismatic schizophrenia.
This is why monarchy of some form is necessary, because you need boundaries so people understand that taking entire responsibilitylies of God to manage all nations is a sin of pride when you can't even help one small family unit.

>>23800570
Well then I gift my death to you, because I have no desire to be alive amongst you.

>>23800572
>I gift my death to you
This proud man thinks he is a god everyone.
Laugh at him.

>>23800324
Hell is being eternally separated from God. Being a lost soul and wandering the abyss, alone, forever.

>>23800356
Oh okay that totally clears it up and doesn't sound like schizo jewish nonsense.

>>23800556
>sanctify power.
saints become warlords.

>>23800573
God? No, anon, I'm the "angel of the abyss"
Don't worry it's usually slightly delayed for plausible deniability purposes. You might have another day or two left.

>>23800575
Think outside of Christian paradigm if you want.
A being within sequential linear time will always have limited causal will compared to a being that exists outside of time this is not affected by causality.
All rational sentient creatures want to have will be instantly manifest ex nihilo, for all your desires to come true, but this is impossible due to the very causality you brew within. Only a being outside of time can have such will in this thought experiment.
In Christian paradigm God offers communion with him and he offers to share all he can of his eternal glory to us, this is the best a being in our paradigm can have because we can't become non temporal ourselves. A seething prideful desire to have your will be supreme outside of God is Satans desire, and many humans share it.

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>>23800424
>God can not have an internal break of communion in between persons or in his nature, if you claim this you are directly an antitrinitarian heretic.
This is something I don't get either. What value lies in some read person overtly implying that someone genuinely asking questions deserves eternal suffering? Accusations of heresy are not a light thing, they are a direct path to the sort of damnation you appear to readily believe. What value is there in you deciding you speak on behalf of God, where you dismiss the countless Bible verses about trusting without knowing (i.e. the literal fucking definition of faith)? Being aggressively dogmatic has probably done more to turn people away from the salvation you believe exists than most other things. Does God truly endorse speaking to other people like this? And if we have some suggestion he does, how could that possibly jive with other parables also suggesting that salvation does not rely upon absolute understanding?

>>23800324
Sin must be atoned for. You can either accept Jesus’ sacrifice on your behalf, or atone for your own sins in the world to come.

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>>23800324
They chose to reject God til the end, so they experience what's it like to be without Him entirely. It's not a punishment but a natural consequence.

>>23800562
Sorry I'm not learned enough to give a proper response.
Eastern Orthodoxy & Roman Catholicism will join as one eventually before end times, even protestants will return which is hard to believe but the Bible does speak of a spiritual wave that will ensure only those left behind in the doomed world will be by their own willful ignorance.
I'm not at liberty to say where the Holy Spirit does and doesn't reside.
>>23800571
Thanks again for the effortpost.
It's just really sad to see all the pandemonium and complete orchestrated destruction of just about every nation. It's also upsetting to be labelled a "racist" for taking pride in one's nation and cultural roots.
I don't really know what to make of history, when if you look at just 100 years ago at the World Fairs and our modern architecture it's completely demoralizing, by design.
We can't build Cathedrals 1/1000th as grand as our ancestors.
There are things we have been forced to forget, and that includes bloodlines of antiquity, DNA, varying breeds and species, authentic history, etc
Was everyone one during Nimrod's time ? God splitting the tongues and dividing mans kingdom. Fallen Angels then coming down, people worshipping them, sacrificing to them (many still do today).
>A German can not try to fix a Nigerian
I agree, but it is also our duty to take care of those lesser fortunate than us, like we do with animals. This is what the aim of Catholic influence of Spain and some Afrikan regions.
Not to adopt them as your own kin and lose ones own identity, but to bring them to God
Something about the thousand steps of Jacob's Ladder
idk sorry I'm tired
Anyways Merry Christmas anon

>>23800579
Anti trinitarianism is a heresy, as in it is officially and formally condemned.
If you believe that Trinity can be broken you are a heretic, it's anathema, but you can repent I'm not your judge or anything nor can I do anything, it's an officially condemned heresy.

>>23800324
I'm not worried about hell at all. Since I believe in Jesus. I know I'm a sinner and I ask for forgiveness. Im only human. I'm not perfect. I live in sin. In a world full of sin. There is no more I can do, since I'm only human.

>>23800582
Merry Christmas, God bless.
As for taking care of those less fortunate, I think folly of Catholic church was attempting to establish temporal presence rather than evangelization with the purpose for locals to form their own Patriarchy. In this case I think it is better to trust the holy spirit rather than take temporal control of the region. Again if you take that responsibility, you also invite all the troubles that come with it, same way how a king can't complain that he has people after his head.

>>23800584
There is a place for the likes of you, they call it "outer heaven". The ones that know but don't repent yet still rely on Jesus Christ.

>>23800490
>It's basically a dreamless sleep from which you never wake up, because "You" stop existing
Once upon a time as a child such a thought terrified me, now it makes me sad because it is absolutely too good to be true. We will never find peace, even if its something as trite as consciousness experiencing an event horizon of sorts where time dilates to make those last miliseconds feel like an eternity.

>>23800586
Nobody knows more than anyone else. Holier than thou people are the worst offenders.

It seems to me like scripture points to anihilationism

either way, i believe God has infinite capacity for mercy, which to my mind demands either anihilationism or universal reconciliation.

universal reconciliation is a nice fantasy, but I would go with annihilation because scripture describes it time and time again, while universal reconciliation is essentially non existent

>>23800587
There is an amnesia barrier between the various planes of existence. The people claiming that death is just a dreamless sleep simply don't remember what it was like before they were born, they don't remember their dreams either because demons attack them in their sleep and they choose to forget it. The spiritual warfare is constant. Some say higher beings come here only to be able to endure suffering, it's like a bootcamp where you earn XP through suffering, the more you suffer here the more resilient you are in eternity. After a lifetime of suffering you won't get bored with perfection, it'll be a relief.

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>>23800588
That's funny, they call me "The Nobody".

>>23800401
cute little fantasy

>>23800571
>>23800585
>you are taking in the responsibilities and curses associated with them
This is a very brilliant point I hadn't considered.
Unfathomable savagery exists in most parts of the world and it isn't our burden to bear unless divinely ordained like various times throughout the OT.
I came to Christ through studying the Occult, and in Masonry this principle applies consistently throughout. The sins of the father can damn the future generations, and a lot of which never even know it. They have to go to a true exorcist who has the Holy Spirit to cleanse them, and they physically feel lighter and uplifted like in confessional.
The gumball guy demonstrated it perfectly, immigration only exists to destroy nations. I just can't understand why the Church is advocating for these principles, especially after thousands of years of fighting of our ancestors fighting to preserve our culture, now it's like we've all lost a World War without firing a single shot.
I don't think God is "racist", for he sheds a tear even when a gorilla breathes his last breath.
The National Socialist idolizes skin & culture over God. A lot of pagans are like this for some reason which is just hubris. The true Aryans don't go about claiming superiority above all, they simple are, as Christ is (I AM).

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learn to recognize pajeet threads. learn to stop giving (You)s, which end up as rupees, to the wrong posters. jews pay pajeets to spam this board en masse with the same agendas that you're still associating with only jews. since 2023 you are much more likely to see jew noise posted by a pajeet. there are a hundred times as many pajeets as there are jews. if you want any part of the internet to survive, you must detect, reject and redeem pajeets everywhere you find them

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the majority of pajeets on /pol/ try to hide the fact that they're pajeets. in addition to "leaving that part out" they will proactively, persistently misrepresent their true form. pajeets are all about assuming other people's roles, from today's outsourcing and replacement migration all the way back to thuggee bandits lying to travelers about who they were. pajeets are devoid of their own identity, making them the ideal globalized goyim. they don't want a home where they belong. all that means to them is "compete in squalor." much better to go somewhere nicer, built by other people, and do their jobs for less pay and live slum-barracks life in their suburbs. pajeets don't want to be home. they also don't want to be pajeets. jews know exactly how to play their insecurities and dopey ambitions like the innocent rube fresh off the bus from the cornfield. this is their new golem to replace the ones that don't love them anymore

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only a few specific groups have the time or inclination to spam anti-christianity so frequently. one of these groups (pajeets) is much more numerous and less qualified than the others

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>>23800324
He's still alive. He goes by Uncle Pappy on Instagram now. The vampire shape shifter shit is real

>>23800593
We do not bear the guilt of fathers, but we bear responsibilities, it is an important distinction.
You can not be divorced from God because your father is an adulterer but you will experience the fallout of it and it will affect you as the cards you need to deal with. This is both literal and metaphysical.
It is not proper to try and take on responsibilities that are above you let alone responsibility that requires God level of power to handle. If you take on something you become responsible for it via a covenant same way a king has a covenant with his nation.
Everything is built upon this effectively, if families are in order, if cities are in order, if nations are in order and if they exist together maybe even as a Christian empire then you have enough of a hierarchical order emulating Gods court that you made take one difficult challenges of the world like this, because ability of this Godly order to take on responsibility grows in accordance to the divine blueprint of Gods very throne.
If families are in disarray and nations are destroyed and kings become merchants what wordly charity can we speak about? It's like a person who cheats on his spouse daily and whose children are hungry trying to help every family on the block.

>>23800324
Not that you need my two cents on this...

I grew up in a Christian sect (JW) that doesn't believe in Hell. I thought it was just our admittedly fucked up version of the Bible that showed there is no Hell, but later in life, long after I had left the cult, I read the scriptures to find out about that. Turns out it's true. Jesus just talked about branches being pruned and thrown in a fire. Hell is not scriptural at all. It's Dante's fan fiction that the Catholic Church latched onto like they were Evangelicals it was the fucking left behind series.

Worshiping a God who would burn disbelievers and lapsed believers for eternity makes about as much sense as listening to what a God who drowned most of his children says about raising your own kids.

>>23800505
The OT is both literal and allegorical.

>>23800599
There is a type of hell but not Catholic Dante's inferno.
The patristic teaching is that upon death you spiritually experience noetic clarity, thus as you await eschaton without mortal obfuscation you experience either closeness to the heavenly host of saints at the throne of God mentioned in revelations or you feel desolation because your being is at odds with omnipresent God. This state is temporary and it is in a way stasis.
Upon eschaton there is general resurrection of all of mankind, and upon general resurrection you are judged. Those who are judged are either thrown into outer darkness where there is gnashing of teeth or join in the new reality that is new kingdom of God which is simultaneously a physical and a spiritual reality.

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>>23800324
>Any other Christians here who are lapsing due to the problem of Hell?
No.
>eternal suffering
That's not Hell. Hell is the absence of God's presence; being written out of the Book of Life. Ironically, it's exactly what atheists claim happens after we (they) die; nothingness.
>transient sins
No such thing.
>omnibenevolent nature of God
...immediately should dispel any notion that God would act cruelly or exercise that cruelty unjustly.

>>23800324
Listen to the morality you know to be more true than a book.

Even if it were true, that would not make it good.

Reject the death cult.

My main issue with Christianity is that I think it is a core human right, that as long as someone is not harming others, people have a right to pursue whatever will make them feel the most happy and comfortable in life. Including being trans or gay. It only becomes a problem when they try to influence others, especially children, to feel the same way they do. I'm ok with executing those who engage with that but the core concepts of just being trans or gay shouldn't be illegal and you shouldn't have to suffer forever for it.
Call me a kike or shill if you want, I consider the majority of my beliefs to align with natsoc but I do still believe in some degree of core personal freedoms.

I'm having a faith crisis lately. I think I'm going to hell because I masturbate, and I don't want to stop. I'm not addicted but if you aren't perfect, you don't go to heaven. And I don't even know what heaven is, what are we supposed to do there ? Everything is a sin and everything is evil according Christianity. And the pope blessing blocks of ice and being a globalist prick doesn't help either. But you aren't supposed to even question it, only obey. I don't know why God gave us free will if he wanted slaves, the only thing it does is taking us astray from the path, willingly or unwillingly. It would have been better to be born with no will or not born at all instead of just experiencing all these things that amount for nothing. Making free will and you aren't supposed to use, making women and you aren't supposed to fuck them outside marriage, making all these things in the world only to not partake in them. It feels like a cruel joke. Tortured in this mortal life and then tortured afterwards in hell. Being eternally tortured, oblivion or eternal bliss going nothing outside of time, all of these scare me.

And I can't understand the sacrifice of Christ, how can a life be currency and how can you pay for sins in the first place, or what is a sin and what are sins. I truly walk in darkness and I'm a bit tired of praying and getting no relief.

>>23800324
two posts isn't enough to appear sincere, OP. your suggestionposting astroturf op won't work

>>23800605
Ask me, I can answer you from orthodox Christian position.

>>23800607
Reading the bible made me lose faith, I can't dig the whole deal about never getting hungry, thirsty, being pure. I like satisfying hunger and thirst and that stuff, what I don't want is dying of hunger in a street like a dog, don't know if you understand me. I don't want to prove anything and I don't want to be perfect, I just want to be good enough. Being pure in Christianity seems... Gay. It's all so alien and impossible to do and it glorifies suffering and feeling like shit all the time. The more I read the more it seems like a cult and slave morality and the more it seems the gnostics are right, where the creator seems like a torturer or an incompetent creature. Wants slaves but creates humans with free will, males males with a big sex drive and tells them to stick with a single woman even if she is a bitch after marriage, gives healthy and long lives to jackasses while he makes babies with birth defects and constantly suffering and tells them to be grateful because things could be even worse.

I just don't want to think anymore, I don't want to prove anything, I don't want to go to a place where you can't do anything because everything is a sin and even failing on a single one, you are guilty of all the law.

>>23800608
I want to think in a God that loves us do much that becomes human and suffers for us and saves us, no questions asked. I want God the father, THE FATHER, a good father cares for his children and they don't have to worry, so how greater God's love must be. But everytime I see catholicism or read the bible and investigate, he seems like a gaslighted and that he takes delight on sending 99% of humanity to hell
>But you chose this, it's not God's fault it's yours YOU CHOSE THIS
NO, FUCK OFF, I don't want to go to hell, no one does, I can't even spend a day without getting hurt or shitting myself or being depressed, don't tell me I'm chosing things, life already is difficult and chaotic as it is don't tell me that after all of this the only thing that awaits me is more suffering and uncaring. Fuck off. I want to believe that things will go better and that if I truly have to change ways, I will gladly do them in my heart, and not with a negative attitude like a child that doesn't want to do his chores. Don't tell me ever again that I go to hell because I jack off because no women ever loved me while the fucking church is importing and feeding a billion niggers and bringing them here to tape and murder people. FUCK OFF.

>>23800608
You seem pretty set, you can live your life any way you want but your life will have consequences no matter what you want to be truth or not.
The only thing I will tell you is this, there is no "good enough" universally it doesn't exist, you are not rated by points. If you gave your all that is what is required of you, but if you love jacking off and wallowing in darkness more than trying you don't need a hell in the afterlife you will live it in this life.
Wake up, look into orthodox Christianity, God did not create you for this, you were created in the image of God and the whole creation was made for you. Get yourself together, you are not a worm.
There is a lot wrong about your theology and I sadly don't have time to get into it because I have to go, but maybe by Gods Providence you will get your answers. Don't despair.

>>23800610
You haven't even read my posts. And this is what irks me, you don't want to truly help people, you want to lecture and read the script, you don't really care about me. I'm just a faceless potential convertee and nothing more.

>>23800587
Yeah. Consciousness is eternal. You can’t experience non-existence. Suffering is eternal.

>>23800324
I dont think its true that hell is a place of eternal conscious torment. There are other views which have stronger scriptual evidence in my opinion. Check out the book "Why hell? Three christian views critically examined" by Steve Gregg

>>23800457
Yeah as a jew he is going to be burned whole anyway. I hate him.

>>23800601
Thank you for your posts anon. Very informative

T. Inquirer

>>23800611
I'm sorry you feel that way, I can not truly emphasize with you at this distance and that is true.
But you yourself must understand that your rhetoric is not healthy even if you are secular, you are extremely spiteful and full of anger.
I used to be this way, I'm married with kids now, your current state doesn't have to be eternal.

>>23800324
Your life is a chance to put yourself, heart mind and soul, into a state that exemplifies and propagates love, truth, and kindness. In short, are you good? Many if not most people, get caught up in hatred, deceit, and hurtful behaviors. These people are not good people.

When you die, the state of your being is measured. You are judged not for your individual, transient sins, but for the cummulative effect they have had on your very being. Are you in a state that is fit for Creation? Then you remain in His light, and perpetuate His love.

Have you been found lacking? Then you are removed from His light -you are unmade- and your existence is wiped from Creation for all of eternity. There is no punishment greater than this with respect to what you will have lost, but in His mercy, you will not suffer. You will simply Not Be.

So rejoice in your life, and love one another, and be good to yourself and to others. Repent for your failings, and adore the perfection which you cannot yet attain. For the Light of our Father is eternal, but the wages of Sin are death.

Amen.

>>23800326
This is nonsense, there is detailed descriptions of both heaven and hell in the Quran. The bible hints about it

>>23800616
It's 2 posts in a 4chan board, I'm a lot more than that. I'm just frustrated because it seems the church is more interested in retarded shit rather than the important stuff. I've never had a problem with this, but it is very frustrating to see people that you are going to hell for fapping when 99% of males do it (and therefore going to hell) while women keep being whores and the church keeps rooting for browns to keep raping because they are christian or something.

Literal rapists are redeemed and can do whatever they please but if you touch yourself one it's all bad and it's all evil. Most of males don't have any chances with women, if you try to do math, but no one cares. Besides, most priests I see are obese and in bad shape, so hearing that I'm going to hell by people that can't even control his basic urges seem hypocritical to me. Everyone is obsessed with sex but no one cares about the other things.

That's the meaning of life and Christianity, do not touch yourself. The most important commandment.

>>23800619
You are genuinely demonically possessed if you put this much importance on masturbation, beware and be careful.
Rape is a sin, adultery is a sin, sexual immortality is a sin. The fact that your WEF Catholic bishop does something that goes against church canons is irrelevant to me, you need to look into dogma specifically patristic orthodox dogma.
But if your entire world revolves around being left alone, being not bothered, being in comfort and seething you can not be helped regardless of your faith. You need to change your worldview paradigmically, you aren't a passive subject you are an agent, you must take ownership of your life. This must is not to say that anyone asks that of you, no one cares about you most likely, but you must do it for yourself and if you don't you will live in hell right now not even in the afterlife.
There is nothing more to say because your entire rhetoric boils down to seething about a would that was always fallen, most likely because you don't have a father figure to explain to you that you must live you life like a soldier spiritually, physically mentally etc. Death to the world as they say.
Otherwise what is the point of even talking, you paradigm already has a solution, don't listen to anyone and stay at home destroying your future self.

>>23800619
Maybe give this a thought.. >>23800617

Creation is endless. Be a part of it.

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN FAIRIES

>>23800620
You are devoidong of love and you haven't read anything of what I said. You can't even define sexual inmorality.
>>23800621
The fact that you are fine with people damned forever is scary. Even one lost soul is a failure from God. I've never felt compassion or love from you people but condemnation and scolding. I'm tired of it.

>>23800623
Damnation is your choice. That is the price of free will. You came here asking for guidance, but in truth you do so cloaked in a shoddy deception. Ask yourself how a life of deception benefits you or your fellow man. In the end, the only fool is you. And again, in the end of things, you and you alone are left to atone for your sins, or face the consequences.

Good luck. A rapist who has struggled with himself his entire life has a greater chance to repent and attain a state of good, than a man who has mocked and derided people his entire life, always sure of himself even as he lies.

I will pray for you, brother.