or is it a scam to get people's money?https://x.com/HustleBitch_/status/2020555253566050516
>>23985358that dude is a terrible actor. its called DTs not Sanjeets.
>>23985359kekbut yeah alcoholl withdraw is fucking terrible. quit the jew juice while your ahead bros
>>23985358I went for 4yrs.It was either men's meetings, one of which was held in a fucking ARMORY, with ex cons and biker gang dudes. Every other word was FUCK. One guy jumped off a bridge in the middle of winter for suicide purposes, only to discover the river was frozen solid. Slid back to the riverbank and promptly went back to the bar. Some of them were strolling around with a pistol in their belt like fucking Sons Of Anarchy or some shit. Was fucking hilarious but unhelpful.And then there were meetings with women.....>I had three glasses of Chardonnay and drove home and hit a tree>Then I went to another party, had another three glasses of Chardonnay and then hit another treeI only ever felt like WHAT THE FUCK AM I DOING HERE.
>>23985359he poofed his hair up to accentuate the tremorshis hand is barely shaking and trust me the first thing on your mind if god forbid you get these is not to start filming yourself, let alone drink a double fraggiano coffee or whatever that is
>>23985358I was drinking over a handle of vodka a day. I would wake up and throw up blood every morning. People kept telling me I would never be able to quit without AA, so using the power of spite to fuel me, I quit drinking without AAI can see how being accountable to a group of people might help prevent people from relapsing but I don't like how the people who rely on the group to get over their addictions project their lack of willpower onto others
>>23985361Oh and there was always one dude, who needed his little rants with:>Thanks for listening to me talk to myself
>>23985363>how the people who rely on the group to get over their addictions project their lack of willpower onto othersThis. It's fucking cultish.It becomes the whole point of their fucking identity. Like nothing else matters. I'm SOBER.My SOBRIETY.Thank God I'm SOBER.One day at a time SOBER.Are ya SOBER?Are we SOBER?Am I SOBER?
>>23985360>alcohol withdrawal is fucking terribleThats called a hangover faggot.
>>23985362>let alone drink a double fraggiano coffeethis guy gets itGood luck even keeping water down. The smell of most food will make you sick and you don't have an appetite
>>23985358I mean, probably both. It takes discipline and commitment to see the program through til the end. But if they had that kind of discipline and commitment, they wouldn't be alcoholics to begin with.The violently severe levels of shaking lets me know this person used to get out of bed just to pour himself a drink before getting up to do anything else.
>>23985365absolutely. And you haven't heard these retards screech until you've confronted them with the reality of how the twelve steps are nothing more than an elaborate humiliation ritual.
>>23985369I never tried that one.
>>23985358>>23985361>>23985365AA is really good for the type of alcoholic that primarily did their drinking in bars. They try to quit and suddenly they have no friends and no social outlet, because all their friends were fellow barflies. So they relapse half out of sheer loneliness. AA gives them some social outlet to replace that. If you are the type of alcoholic that just kills a bottle of vodka alone in your apartment, it’s not going to help as much.
>>23985358it's a cult but it does work
>>23985358The only thing AA ever did was make me get a drink after every meeting.Sitting around talking about alcohol for a an hour does not seem to be the answer for me.
>>23985358It works if you work it! As culty and weird as AA can be, they do it for free. If you dont like one group try another, there are thousands of online zoom meetings. Local groups can get bogged down with group dynamics. 5 years booze free, I think the last meeting I went to was August.
>>23985370Reminder she was found naked at 7 am in the hallway of a luxury LA hotel after being brutally raped by a hollywood exec the night before
>>23985371Wise take.You described me exactly.It never worked for me (always drank alone)
>>23985358>ctrl-f freemason>0 results/pol/ disappoints me sometimes.
>>23985377we don't have masonry in the united states, here they're FreeCarpenters (we build out of wood and gypsum board)
>>23985358It's a great place to sell drugs in the parking lot
>>23985375She was probably roofied. Was certainly drunk.Whatever happened she was wandering the halls, trying to open all the locked hotel rooms, completely naked.A guest opened his door, got her into his room, covered her up and put her in his bed and called the front desk.What a fucking trooper.
>>23985379It's a great place to meet whores with low self control and no understanding of cause and effect
>>23985358It works in the sense that there is accountability. You have a sponsor, or whatever they call it and anytime you feel like drinking you call them for support. These sponsors are people who were former alcoholics and have been sober for many years. Many of the steps though are silly, like having to believe there is a God to give strength in controlling the compulsion to drink. I guess it works for some people though because they haven't changed the steps like a 100 years.
>>23985381This too.
>>23985358try this: https://acim.org/acim/en
>>23985358Support groups help people work through lots of different problems. Nothing special about AA, but if you take it seriously, it will help.
>>23985358stop blaming alcohol for your fucked up life
AA helps tons of people. First you should try to read the book, it’ll at least show you why you drink and understanding why you drink is half of it. Also, getting over all the shameful shit you did while drinking is really helpful so you can apologize and move on. Overall AA is pretty great but there are people who replace drinking with meetings and try to make sobriety their entire life. Those people are usually new and will relapse often.
>>23985358They have a vow of poverty. Ppl give voluntary nominal amounts. It works.
>>23985375Hot
>>23985365That's it exactly. I was a total gutter drunk who would have seizures without alcohol except for when I shot meth instead, then I didn't get sick for some reason. Three years of complete sobriety and I was recently told I am "white knuckling" it and will relapse without the program. MUH PROGRAM!ALWAYS MUH PROGRAM!I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me! I don't need anything else.
>>23985358It's really fucking weird how alcoholics humble brag about how fucked up their lives were, and then other alcoholics take comfort from comparing their own fucked up lives to the exaggerated stories of other's fucked up lives. Then they end up being friends exclusively with other ex-alcoholics to the point that talking about their fucked up lives becomes the only remaining part of their identity that is not corrupted by their drinking past. And it's all rationalized under the guise of well at least i'm not drinking anymore, but that comes at the cost at never ever being able to let go of the past, and just constantly living in the regret of your past mistakes. There is just something extremely discomforting about the whole thing.
>>23985380Didn’t even fuck her?What an incredible faggot.
>>23985358Just don't drink, it's easy.
It's a cult of weirdos. If you really want to quit drinking just fucking do it and replace it with other shit. I dated a girl who was married to AA and she was a literal cult member. It's like scientology they're fucking freaks.
>>23985393And even when it's not easy, it truly is this simple.
>>23985363>People kept telling me I would never be able to quit without AA, so using the power of spite to fuel me, I quit drinking without AABased
>>23985358They don't charge anything. I went for months but it didn't work for me personally. I think it works for a lot of people but I found going to therapy worked for me.
>>23985390Generally people who get into AA aren't ready to quit so they have to drag themselves there and justify it. All AA does is get you away from the booze long enough to have some sense of sobriety and realize you have a problem... thats it. All the rest is up to the person to stray away from the juice.
>>23985358It definitely works for some people. I've seen and met plenty of them. I'm not one of those people because I'm autistic AF and can't connect with a room full of normies. I tried AA and did 3-4 meetings a week for months. I don't go to meetings anymore because I straight up don't find it helpful. It helped me get started but I still haven't drank in a year.
>>23985358I know a number of alcoholics for some reason and some have done AA. Some of them go all in, some use facets of the program to stay sober but aren't true belivers, believers, some think it's a waste of time.
>>23985358No. it teaches one to be weak. I was forced into the program when i was 23 for a drugs charge. >have done by body weight in drugs from ages of 18 to 27 and "clean" for a decadejust have a beer or three, dont get fuckin wasted. how hard is that
>>23985370Would.
>>23985358Its about finding a good group. I've found groups are brought down either by starlets who crave attention or the cliques. Most members are good people who are trying to help others.I don't care, personally there under court order and sit in the back and don't say a word. It's like any other meeting, you get what you put into it.
>>23985392There's an epidemic of low test simps
>>23985402Any man on planet earth WOULD Bonganon.
>>23985358>i need gawd and cultish group meetings to stop being a fuckin drunkardburgers..
>>23985358>or is it a scam to get people's money?It's free>>23985368>But if they had that kind of discipline and commitment, they wouldn't be alcoholics to begin withOne of the major aspects of the program is to stop isolating and get help from others. People fail because they try to deal with it on their own.
>>23985406Fuck off to OKTOBERFEST and go get BLAUEEEE!
>>23985360>Your ahead. It's you're ahead fag
>>23985371good take. AA meets always felt pretty grim to me, like the self help groups in fight club. I was also doing a medical detox on benzos so I was constantly noding off in front of people lol
>>23985371So it mainly for Boomers and GenX, and some of the millennials. I'm old. My father is silent gen.I don't think we are in a better place for the bullshit version of society we suffer at present.Good observation.Just makes me fucking sad.
>>23985358UNLESS YOU DID ALL 12 steps fuck off with your bullshit that it doesn't work...most of you fagots are scare to see yourself for your bullshit on paper and only make it to step 3
>>23985361did you complete ALL 12 steps NO you didnt so fuck off
>>23985374>5 years booze free, I think the last meeting I went to was August Because careful anon. I'm in the middle of a relapse after 10 years in the rooms. And let me tell you, it's hard to get it back. Not sure I will
>>23985413No you fuck off. It's for weird boomer retard cultists. That aside, if it worked for you, good on you.But also fuck off.
>>23985374First of all seconding, AA works if you work it. But I’m more interested in this thread in general - any anons noticing that AA threads recur on this board with a surprising frequency, given how little they have to do with politics? I almost suspect that as one of the last real resilient, decentralized, purpose driven community networks in the US AA has attracted the attention of the elites, either as a case study in the organization of decentralized groups or potentially even as an obstacle in their efforts to alienate and mind break especially the particular kinds of personalities AA tends to save. It’s interesting to me it seems someone wants to know how many Anons are in AA.Any other anons notice this?
>>23985373so you did follow the program directions but believe you have a right to bitch and moan fuck out of here
>>23985414Smart feet brother. Your better self knows what to do.
>>23985415EAT SHIT FAG...how in the fuck can you put down something you didnt try or complete to the end.
>>23985414put your ego aside and get your ass back into the rooms...
>>23985413>>23985417Oh Jesus.I know your type.Godspeed.
>>23985418Can't get over my hatred of God and humanity.
>>23985358it’s not about money. Elites can’t have too many fuck ups in society so a sober degenerate is better than a drunk idiot criminal. a sober dumbass will work and produce something while being baited by AA. real legit people don’t need a corporation leading their thoughts that intently
>>23985419>no, you have to eat ALL of the shit to know whether it tastes bad
>>23985420I've tried man. Even have a sponsor patiently waiting on me. He's NA but also hits AA meetings. Just don't see a future for me and obviously the world is coming undone IMO.
>>23985422>Hatred of GodThat is one monster mountain.Why do you hate God.
>>23985421why are you afraid of a spiritual awakening...finish ALL OF THE STEPS NOT just the ones you like
>>23985358It's a cult.
>>23985424>>no, you have to eat ALL of the shit to know whether it tastes badDumb analogy. You're saying "why did my bed fall apart when I was sleeping even though I didn't follow the instructions"
>>23985428how would you know unless you did ALL of the steps...
>>23985371>If you are the type of alcoholic that just kills a bottle of vodka alone in your apartment, it’s not going to help as much.Hits close to home.
>>23985422You do know you can make your own God or make the room your God until you find your God of your understanding
>>23985426In my view, I hold him ultimately accountable for everything. The stupidity of humanity, the failure of religion and for creating me with the problems I have. I never asked for any of this. No one did. Yet I'm supposed to ask some sky Jew to make it all better when he set it up that way in the first place. Nah. Fuck him
>>23985358It's a cult, if it works for you, go for it... but yeah, there's some grift to it. You need to purchase your 12 step program which was written by a alkie couple who didn't even overcome it. It's good for social circles but desu I don't wish to hangout with other drunks if i'm trying to get out of it. It's a support group but very pseudo-religious and cult like. I'd rather find something else or a good support group instead of going to AA or NA
>>23985432I know man. Like I said, I was in there over a decade. 17 years in all. I'm tired.
>>23985427Fuck the STEPS.This isn't the fucking 1920s.I read the blue book.And I'll Quit Tomorrow. And Undrunk.Why is nuance lost on you turbo-fucktards.I get that it may be coming from good place. But cut the shit and stop projecting your bullshit on other people.
>>23985358Who cares. Just quit drinking. If you don’t want to quit then you’ll keep drinking. If you want to quit then you will quit. Easy as. Don’t complicate it. No need to count days.
>>23985433A legitimate point of view. An intelligent one too.How do you feel about freedom of will?
>>23985358it is a cult, masonic in origin, seems to work for some people but they become cult members for life, they can't really be friends with non members and their whole lives revolve around it
>>23985436you never did the steps... cool so stop telling others about something you have never done
>>23985358
>>23985440You did them, it worked for you. Doesn't work for everyone. So stop telling everyone THEY ARE YOU.
>>23985366Real alkies don't wake up with hangovers, or at least aren't bothered by them. They just start shaking and vomiting and hallucinating after 2-3 days without it.
>>23985442stop telling everyone they dont work if you didnt complete them
>>23985358Literally who gives a fuck? If you start drinking regularly at 30 and stop before you end up drinking a handle of vodka a day you can make it 10-20 years if you don't have shit loser genes.Now the real problem is after you are forced to quit and realize you're an autistic fucking moron and you don't have a plug to buy drugs from.
>>23985438Haven't thought about it much recently, I dunno. Does it really exist? Right now I would say no. I recently watched that McCormac movie with Tommy Lee jones and Samuel Jackson in it, blanking on the name. But the points white made rang so true. The sound of suffering must be the sound God finds most pleasing.
>>23985358They use cult tactics to brainwash people so yes it can work. Brainwashing and cult tactics work.
>>23985437This is the best post ITT. It comes down to this. And everything else is a matter of perception. It could even go back to the subconcious but at the end of the day, it's up to you. Maybe the spirit man within is being dominated by the flesh and people keep returning to addiction, IDK... but I don't see AA as a solution, rather than a self-registration to a type of mental slavery full of guilt and never-ending lack of freedom. They essentially believe that there is no cure and you're a victim no matter what. Completely fucked up. I'm not shitting on those who succeeded though, but I rate there are better, less destructive and cultish ways to go about becoming free.
>>23985447I love getting my brain washed for alcohol
>>23985358my father went and forced me to attend meetings with him from beginning when I was around 11. its a cult and no one will change my opinion on that.
>>23985358It’s a support group, not magic. It would be insane to think having a support group that holds you accountable doesn’t improve your chances (unless you are a narcissistic psychopath, it definitely can not help you then).From my meager understanding, it’s a pretty solid program even beyond support and accountability, but I imagine those are the most critical ingredients.
It works brilliantly if you work the program. It's whole approach is to switch your addiction to interacting with others trying to stay sober and go to meetings to reinforce the effort. It makes your journey a team effort. It is never easy.
>>23985448Addiction which is what alcoholism is doesn't make sense until you're part of the club. Lots of people get sent to the rooms by the courts and probably aren't really alkies.Consider yourself fortunate if you're not a member.
>>23985358I once quit drinking for Lent. Never did anything for Lent before but I read about it and liked the concept of giving up something you love. So I made a solemn promise to God that I would quit for Lent. Only problem was that I misread something and thought it was only 3 days long. Realized my mistake after I already made the promise so I had to go the whole 40 days. In summation, I realized I was not an alcoholic. Bring drinking every since. Thank you God!
>>23985448self will run riot trying to stop a disease on will power allow will never work
>>23985361Thanks Grok, can you now explain to me how a fall of a bridge into water would kill someone, but the same fall onto ice would not?
>>23985449So anonymous alcoholics works on those vulnerable to cults and superstition.Any group therapy use mild forms of cult behavior and ritual to get their way too.The moment you can see through it is when it no longer works.
>friend is an annoying prick when drunk, a really competitive drinker that would get frustrated when I wasn't matching his pace>would pressure me to drink even when I was ill or didn't want to>after a few years he abruptly begins attending "meetings">starts talking like he was in a cult, got really angry when I had a drink when catching up>began berating me about alcohol and why it's bad for me and cruel for me to drink in his presence>severs friendship over my indifference and unwillingness to "improve"I never got the impression that he was an alcoholic, he definitely had a habit to binge drink and some mental issues but I'd seen him go weeks without drinking.The services he attended convinced him the alcohol was the reason for every fault in his life.Before that phase, he went through a gymbro phase and similarly believed that gym goals were the answer to all of life's problems, would preach for me to get a gym membership.
>>23985366DT's are fucking insane. A hangover is nowhere near that league of dogshit sick and hallucinating for days. You have to go to the hospital so they can put you on benzos and other meds to watch you for 4-7 days minimum.
>>23985358I went a few times. It seemed cool. Something a little uncanny about it at times but it felt like it kept people in line. Seems like just a really strong accountability system.
>>23985458If true he's out of line obviously. That fundie Christianity bullshit and the opposite of what AA teaches
>>23985362There is also the fact that he decided to do something really dangerous so instead of doing it at home he does it in his car while driving
>>23985363Okay so you have more willpower than other people. Good for you.Meanwhile…. Those other people don’t and these programs help.
>>23985460Yes it is a cult and ritual. It got strong cult rituals and psychological manipulation tactics as a cult.
>>23985446Here is the weird rub.God gave us freedom of will. To fuck up as hard and long as we like.Without freedom of will, we are basically automatons. Robots. Would you rather have the freedom to fuck up? Or be a robot.
>>23985450lmao. worst cult imaginable.>no dues/fees>can come to meetings or not, no one cares>everyone gets to speak, and only for a few minutes so no one takes over the meeting>no one gets paid>in fact, half are unemployed>no leaders, only volunteers to start and end meetings>coffee>no re-defining words, in fact, we have to frequently use dictionaries to understand the original text in the big book>men stick with men, women stick with women
>>23985374Many people misunderstand AA, both from an inside perspective and especially from the outside. Alcohol kills and has ripples or residual effects beyond oneself. AA reflects back upon whichever group has come together to read its preamble. I have been to about 80 groups around the country (work travel). I have 10 years sober from alcohol. Every single group interprets and conveys sobriety differently from the others I have visited. What I have found is that meetings are a good source of listening skills and sometimes good perspectives or insights, and it doesn’t hurt to briefly share something relevant to the meeting. But even better, they serve as a way to find and connect with dudes who have also become redpilled about the jews.
>>23985439>pyramid in circleAre you guys praying to lord Jashin or something? Fucking faggets.
>>23985417>directionsAre you talking about something more specific than>don’t drinkBecause then you get to just claim a hundred percent success rate and it is meaningless.
It’s gay and the people who use are the biggest cucks on the planet
What are noticeable body changes that occur after you quit drinking after a month? Does the brain fog ever go away? Does sleep get better?
>>23985444Complete FUCKING WHAT.I met so many dudes who "didn't complete them" and got sober. What the fuck are you babbling about.I like what you are trying to do. But cut the shit with thinking the 12 step whatever the fuck is the cure all for everyone. How old are you?
>>23985427>spiritual awakeningits really a cult, isnt it.
>>23985457its works when you work it...that means completing ALL 12 steps. if it dont work for you we will gladly refund you your misery
>>23985473nah it a spiritual program
>>23985466and of course, the higher power. while originally it was the Christian God, the second step is there to make you understand that you, the individual, have no control. however, some form of higher power exists to help you stay sober, since you cannot do it on your own (if you could, you wouldnt be in AA). a common higher power for atheists is the collective brainpower and understanding of millions of sober people who successfully stayed sober. thats the higher power for faggots who shun God.nothing to argue against in regards to higher power. it's been solved since like the 40s
>>23985466>we have to frequently use dictionaries to understand the original text in the big bookcult>men stick with men, women stick with womencult>no leaders, only volunteers to start and end meetingsvolunteer leaders, cult>no dues/feesstate and donation funded like a church/cult>everyone gets to speak, and only for a few minutes so no one takes over the meetingeveryone has to be confronted or offer psychological vulnerabillity to destroy their ego, cult>can come to meetings or not, no one caresguilt tripping and social ostracisation, cult>tell you to cut off friends and family if they disagree with the cultcult core aspect
>>23985361Really magnificent story. Problem is we do not believe it, thanks for the fantasy shit.
>>23985474islam works too when you follow the no drinking rule, like it is a cult
>>23985471sleep took about two years to get better, but I had a lot of other stuff clogging up the progress. So everything sucked real fuckin bad for about two years, with sparse reprieves of clarity and ease.Would still do it all over again.
>>23985475the only spiritual program you need is Jesus.
>>23985456He bounced off the ice. He was looking to drown himself. I assumed the bridge wasn't that high off the surface of the river. He was so fucking old. It didn't occur to me to roll up and interrogate him.>HEY BULLSHIT!!!Why would anyone do that.The way he told the story, he was embarrassed, but also knew the room would find it hilarious. And we all did.
>>23985358The guy in the pic is Scott freda, a call center scams artist who fakes a back story about his alcoholism and his deceased wife so he can scam people into paying him for recovery coaching.
You guys aren't alcoholics, you're just addict retards with shit lives.If you got an infinite supply of Oxycodone you would drop the alcohol immediately, you don't even like alcohol lmao you just don't have a plug.
>>23985464The basis seems strongly religious. Hard to say if this is actually a bad thing if it keeps people off of substances that could pose a danger to others and themselves.
>>23985465He created angels first which were practically robots that stand around all day telling him how great he is. I guess this bored him so he created humans for his personal entertainment.Thanks for taking time anon. I've been in a really dark place for a long time now. I just don't see God or whatever that creates me as a loving being. In fact, he just seems like a narcissistic asshole
just how low IQ you have to be to get addicted to alcohol? The first time i felt a nice buzz I realized that this is dangerous and you shouldn't feel that good on a whim. I only drink on holidays.
>>23985442I think he has a good point, and you actually agree with it here: different things work for different people. He just read too much into your first comment.So his point, if I can refine it, would be not to shit on a system that didn’t work for you (be that because of the system itself or your incompatibility with it) because it may work for others and your opinion could taint theirs; which came about with the “fuck the steps” post.I can imagine going to the first meeting is sort of a big deal. Not the meeting itself, but the going. People shouldn’t be discouraged from that.
>>23985485its a cult, with cult tactics and cult indoctrination
>>23985481Jesus would wait until everyone was already drunk as shit and THEN he would bring out the good wine. Cheap fucking Jew.
>>23985478>I have done nothing in my life but stare into computer screensCondolences. Real people exist. You should check it out some day.
>>23985358the AA meetings in my area are full of decrepit boomers who quit drinking 30 years ago and keep coming because its their only social outlet. I quit drinking 6 months ago and tried AA and smart recovery, smart recovery is annoying because its "harm reduction" and dont demand full sobriety, which doesn't work. you can't smoke pot, you will eventually start drinking again. Study after study shows that desiring to maintain full sobriety is basically the biggest indicator that you will be able to stay sober.if you feel like you have a drinking problem, the AA book is extremely useful, even if the meetings are mostly garbage. It describes in detail and without judgement all of the errors in thinking that alcoholics go through. One of the most powerful things about AA (or any group recovery setting) is being able to tell stories about your drinking that other people will understand, without judgement.I know I'm going to get shit on for this but CBT with a licensed therapist is also helpful. If you drink too much it is probably because you have other personality flaws that cause you to do so. You can use religion or CBT or meditation or whatever you want to get over your personality flaws but guaranteed they are there and you need to get over them to make yourself comfortable with not drinking anymore.For me the most other useful thing to do, besides CBT, was start working out and after a couple of months I started taking steroids, helps a lot because you know if you drink you're going to over-aromatize and get bitch tits, and you also have a really compelling reason not to be hung over tomorrow, because it will fuck with your workout. I told myself and my wife that if I relapse, I will go to AA and do the 12 steps, and that sounds like such shitty torture that it's helping keep me sober. I can't imagine spilling my guts to some boomer retard who has no real training and I have nothing in common with.
>>23985358It's a front for Illuminati/Mason niggardly, and the idea is to get you to "surrender to win" to Satan, by proxy of a "higher power." In reality, you need but only give your soul back to GOD, and pray not to a mortal man, a likely false prophet, and instead pray in your mind and direct it to GOD, only. No, we don't know who or what GOD is per se, and to my knowledge GOD has not informed me of Their name or any other pointless human classification, like gender even. This is the key. Mix all the religions as best you can and adopt a label-less approach to your own unique personal relationship with GOD. Don't let these luciferian niggers brain wash you with their garbage. You aren't "sick" like they posit, unless you actually suffer their bullshit and accept their ascribing of whatever they want onto you. Fuck AA and fuck SatanAnd fuck the CIA and the demiurge. Gayniggers from outer space tongue my anus.
>>23985358>>23985358Nothing works unless you are ready to quit being a fuck up. Then you might have a chance. If it's being forced down your throat i'm skeptical it would ever work. Same with N/A. If you want to quit it's a good place to find tips about what helped other people stop being fuck ups.
AA is usually broke. My home group barely pays rent. It's kept me sober for 5+ years but it only works if you do the work.
>>23985485the basis is actually being among fellow alcoholics. the only thing in history, and im talking all history, that actually has a track record of keeping alcoholics sober is AA (to a lesser degree, that one british organization that bill w got inspiration from). every other attempt in history has failed.theres no magic pill, theres no college course, theres no bargaining. the only thing that works is shootin' the shit with fellow alcoholics and figuring out how to regain sanity.
>>23985495It is a cult and placebo.
>>23985433What if you have incorrectly assessed the nature of God, and you are actually angry at (for lack of a better term) an imaginary friend?I find this very common amongst atheists (which I’m not calling you) including myself when I was an atheist: I was mad over a God that wasn’t the one I believe in now.Do you think it’s possible something like this has happened to you?
>>23985363>so using the power of spite to fuel me, I quit drinking without AAI know a guy who quit being alcoholic just to harass his ex-wife harder. Which is the most retarded reason, I've ever heard for quitting alcohol, but also kind of impressive, in a way. The dumbass is in prison right now, for stalking and shit. But he's and was dead sober before they locked him up. I wonder if he'll prevail on his sober quest for being an annoying retard, after he comes out.
>>23985496islam works
It just takes strength to quit. Some people get it from other stuff but the type of person who needs an imaginary friend/"god" figure it works pretty well. Imho the best answer is usually just exercise and redirecting dopamine >i.e. you typically drink 6 drinks a night. drink 5 drinks a night and eat a bag of vinegar chips or something. repeat for a month and then make it 4 drinks. so on and so forthThe reality is you can't control yourself if you cant stop drinking, and doing it as gradually as possible is basically your only answer
>>23985375She looks like a kike with a nose job so its their culture.
>>23985485>The basis seems strongly religiousIt was spun off from the Oxford groups that were religious. The history is interesting. Bill W was basically a stockbroker that I would have absolutely hated personally.
>>23985369>>23985365idk what's wrong with that. It's the end result that counts, if you can't do it any other way
>>23985484Oddly enough I hate narcotics. Also hated coke and meth. Alcohol, however , is like a mother’s embrace. Even marijuana meddled with the drunk. Nothing slaked quite like booze. Heck I don’t even get addicted to nicotine. Only alcohol made me feel loved and at peace with myself and the universe.
>>23985480My issue with sleep is I can't get enough. 5 hours max and my brain won't let me sleep anymore. Makes the entire day groggy. Have to fight to sleep at normal times because around 7-8PM my brain says its sleepy time but that is way too early to sleep and I wake at like 2AM and can't return to sleep. Did you have similiar issues when drinking?
...if you are struggling with alcohol, get help I dont care if its AA or not
>>23985358It works, AA is for people with no willpower of their own who need somebody else to keep them in check trough the sponsorship system.
this thread made me want to DRINK ALCOHOL
>>23985486Yes sir. Angels came first.This is just the story, which I also have some hangups with. But the story goes, he created that realm first.And yes, humans do come off like an experiment. Like a top he yanked and spun, just for them to see where it goes.The supposed heavenly argument, is between angels and demons, and the crux of it, is ARE HUMANS WORTH IT? OR NOT.
>>23985498I was raised in a fundie church and household. I bet that tells you everything you need to know.
>>23985425the thing is, life is very short for everyone. Me, you, fucking Bezos, or any careless celebrity who gets all the women. We'll all turn the same to dust soon.So why shorten your life and lower the quality of it with your retardation?
>>23985496>the only thing in history, and im talking all history, that actually has a track record of keeping alcoholics sober is AAThat's because through history drinking was seen as normal and there was no reason for anyone to quit. The temperance movement was started by feminists. You all got played.
>>23985392>>23985404he would, if it was india
>>23985358You don't pay any money. You donate what you want to pay for the coffee and maybe cookies.
>>23985505For me weed was the magical one. I hate alcohol, the hangovers, the puking. Weed and opiates did it for me. I just felt more at home at the time in AA since the NA was pretty hood and not always the easiest to relate to. That said, hood NA meeting with real clean time are some good shit
>>23985513Drinking beer was safer than drinking water throughout most of history.
>>23985506Drunk sleep was all I knew for 8 years. It was the only thing that blocked the nightmares.The worst time of my life was when the booze stopped blocking the nightmares.
>>23985513If your day doesn’t revolve around a drink, thank your god, but for some of us, drinking consumes every waking moment of our lives.
>>23985511It actually didn’t. All I really needed to know was the answer to my question, and I didn’t get one.I ask because there is no shortage of people lying about God, and a few wrong axioms can really spiral it out of control.Given your background, you were probably taught about God’s “Omni’s” (eg omnipotence); but their own holy book claims the opposite.Does my question make more sense now?
>>23985510Best line I've heard in a long time was Andrew on the behind the bastards podcast where Lucifer was explaining why he made the choice he did. I can't tell it as well as he did but it was basically Lucifer tells the guy to start praising him. Ok, keep going. Keep going. After about 20 minutes guy says I'm kind of tired of this, can we change for a bit? Lucifer says that what I said.
>>23985488You're right. I shouldn't have said that. Good point. It does work for people. Just like religion works for some and not for others.That's all I meant. I met dudes in there that were ALL HEART and meant the best, but it was smothering and projection. They couldn't see anything nuanced. It was DO IT, or DONT.And if you don't FUCK OFF!It's just not an approach to helping anyone I will ever take. It's block headed.
Fucking seriously.
>>23985520We got moved, hope you're still here. I think I'm too dumb to understand your point right now though
>>23985528I am give me a moment to type.
>>528058105Son of a bitch.I don't have much more time, but if you are still here, respond.
>>23985650
>>23985513nah, drunks throughout history were thrown into jails or asylums. those didnt help keep people sober. no one ever cared or knew how to treat drunkards. every ancient society that figured out booze came to the exact same conclusions.
>>23985528>Can God make mistakesIs that your question?
>>23985654>I'm 12Anything else?
AA is a dark family of shitheadsYour final step is cutting all of those pieces of shit out of your lifeBe very careful who you associate with Also you will never cut out drugs from your life unless you really want itForcing someone to go to AA like the mental hospitals do is pointless Yet another reason to hate the fucking retards that live in the USA
>>23985519I mean I have a job, but I work 3 12 hour days. Can't really get away with drinking and doing 12 hours of manual labor at my age. On my days off I'll regularly get a 6 pack of IPAs and sit around watching anime and shit posting. Or go out to a bar with a friend or family member. I used to binge drink when I was younger but my body can't handle that shit any more. Alcohol doesn't consume my every waking thought, but it's a large part of my life.
>>23985660>Yet another reason to hate the fucking retards that live in the USAaa is international. sorry to break it to ya
>>23985660>Also you will never cut out drugs from your life unless you really want itOops until you get old and sick.Then fuck it.
>>23985657I don't think that's my question so much as I think it's obvious he did. Does that make sense?
>>23985522Do it or don’t is good advice If you were serious about getting sober you would have the same motivation >omg that isn’t hecking nuanced fee fees Fucking faggot wear a dress and go to female AA meetings and listen to women waste your time with pointless toddler thoughts and conversations Soulless twit
>>23985665It’s really not and Europeans a whiter and more well socialized than American faggots
>>23985670Free will is not a mistake
>>23985528So you have a conception of God. It is very likely one of a kind, in the same way your siblings have a somewhat different perspective on your parents than you do, despite all growing up together.Raised in religion, you have a prepackaged understanding of God delivered to you. Sadly, it’s often very different than their own holy book says. My own struggle with God came about in a similar way, I was raised in a church that taught me lies about God.This caused me to be unable to assess God clearly, because I had attributed qualities to him that he did not have. Learning about atheism reinforced this misunderstanding, because they all have similar misunderstandings.It wasn’t until much later I was able to “build God from scratch” so to speak, by stripping my preconceived notions and meditating on the nature of a God (I prefer the term creator) compatible with the universe.A clever man pursuing this shouldn’t take long to arrive at deism as a justifiable placeholder, but the more clever you are, the less suitable that solution becomes as you think about it.But I’m getting pretty far astray here: the core point may be more relatable with human relationships. Have you ever been brutally betrayed by someone you trusted? That feeling of anxiety mixed with the anger is because a person you thought you knew became a stranger. They did something you couldn’t imagine them doing, you never actually knew who they were, you just had an imaginary image of them in your head, which was shattered by their betrayal.If we assume the existence of God, he would be a self-consistent being; but all religions describe him in contradictory ways. At most one could be accurate, the rest would be following a false imagination of God.Does that clear anything up?
>>23985679>It’s really not
>>23985670It does.And I struggle with that one too.>If he is PERFECT, OMNISCIENT, how the fuck did he not see this comingRight?Again, would you rather be a robot or have free will.Would you want to mentor your daughter or leave it to GOD.Would you want to buy this or that house or leave it TO GOD.Would you want your country in a certain state, or a tax code, or a property line, or a building code, or a zoning code... OR LEAVE IT TO GOD.
>>23985906Just proved my point that Americans are insane faggots not worth wasting my time with
>>23985905>But I’m getting pretty far astray here: the core point may be more relatable with human relationships. Have you ever been brutally betrayed by someone you trusted? That feeling of anxiety mixed with the anger is because a person you thought you knew became a stranger. They did something you couldn’t imagine them doing, you never actually knew who they were, you just had an imaginary image of them in your head, which was shattered by their betrayal.So I hate God because he's not who I thought he was? Thank you for trying, in trying to grasp your point but I'm hungover as fuck
>>23985670>>23985909God gave us these weird little freedoms....And before you start sitting MUH HISTORICALS.... Okay, want to turn right or left? Want to leave that to GOD?The thing, whatever it is, gave us free will.Does that make sense?
>>23985909>>If he is PERFECT, OMNISCIENT, how the fuck did he not see this comingYes. And then he did it anyway. That's not love. That's a kid burning ants with magnifying glass
>>23985905>deism as a justifiable placeholderHoly shit. You take over.
>>23985915I guess. I mean I get whatever it is gave us free will, but is it honestly a blessing or a curse? Obviously I wouldn't want to be a robot, but fuck, there had to be a better design than this shit
>>23985914No, you don’t hate God at all. You hate something you have labeled as God, but is not an accurate map of the territory.For example if you thought God wanted you to rape babies, you would think>wow god is a monster But if he didn’t actually want that, your assessment would be invalid.So the misapprehension about God’s nature caused you to dislike him, not his actual nature.
>>23985921He’s not burning the ants with the magnifying glass though. The ants have gone insane and are going through colony collapse When the earthquakes and meteors hit that’s when the magnifying glass comes into play
>>23985909What if God isn’t omniscient? Doesn’t that change the math?
>>23985915You know who doesn’t have this problem right now? China and India Because the Jews are trying to gain a foothold in their countries by being nice to them
>>23985921I struggled with this too. Because if you back all the way out, it does seem like some weird experiment.>A timeless being with no begining and no end, randomly became lonely and started a couple of experiments.>Angels first, then humansIf the biblical stuff if true, how would it look to angels if GOD just started everything over and didn't give out present version of humans (experiments) a chance?
>>23985931Ok, got it. Thank you. I guess then it's a question of setting my pride and ego aside and becoming a newcomer again. Which is also humiliating after picking up a decade medallion. And I feel like I didn't get any more happiness when I was sober. And I tried to apply it as hard as I could man. I really did give it a go. I have some career resentments associated with it as well
>>23985941Satan is practically omniscient and God is doubly so with complete Omnipotence with a timeline that practically runs on rails, all of time is a trivial thing to him
>>23985945I still have a little time to discuss the nature of God if there is something specific you attribute to him that causes a rift between you.
>>23985952What would make you think that?
>>23985956Your mom you fucking retard
>>23985954I don't know if I can even put it into words. And maybe it doesn't hold up logically. I just blame him for putting me morons for parents that used religion and emotional manipulation to try and control me. I mean I realize that I had it wayyyyyyy better than a lot of people. Yet the emotional wounds are obviously deep. I'm 43 man. Like I feel like the ship has sailed at this point
>>23985944God didn’t get lonely retard God creates things because that’s what he does and because it’s cool
>>23985929There supposedly is. I have no idea why it took thousands of years. Bit as per the Christian story, Jesus was here to prove that what Adam failed to do, another supposedly perfect human COULD. And post-Christ we are supposed to emulate him, and spread the word about him and GOD and maybe emerge into another world post-Armagedon. I shot you not.I don't get it either, but sin your brains out, bitch about the state of everything to your heart's content (SATAN'S WORLD). You can be somehow redeemed because Christ came to earth and was crucified and proved to both realms, AGELIC AND HUMAN, that humans are redeemable, and can be saved, and please GOD, our creator, don't flush us all down the toilet and maybe start over with a human race.... who knows. .1000004m
>>23985959You realize that was passed on you you because of at least 5 generations of retards came before you will very similar problems It’s up to you to try and break the cycle that someone else started long ago
>>23985962What's even funnier is if the Bible is true God himself even regretted humanity and wiped it all out save on special little Jewish family he liked. And that in and of itself shows what a moron he is. Like, you changed nothing in the code, you just hit the reset button and then somehow thought it would be different the next time.
>>23985959It seems like you are blaming God for the actions of your parents, unless you think God deliberately made them this way.I can’t really defend the action of your parents, but I will say you have to go pretty far back to get to God’s involvement in why your parents behaved the way they did.Our behaviors are the products of others, you probably see some amount of blame for yourself on your parents, but it didn’t start with them. They were broken by the world, just like you were.
>>23985961For ETERNITY?Go ahead and explain that.Which experiment are we, in the scope of eternity?See how that is weird and problematic?
>>23985958You ever wonder why simple questions about your own thoughts are so upsetting to you?
>>23985963I chose to break the cycle by refusing to have children. Unfortunately my brothers eventually had kids, one actually just a few days ago. I did all I could to ensure the family died with me. Oh well, I tried.
>>23985965Jews didn’t exist when Noah built his ark.
>>23985967It's not even that they were retards but it's the arrogance they have to this day still. "If you would just do things like we did you would be happy.". Never mind the fact that they really aren't happy either. It's the arrogance, the fucking audacity
>>23985965You cannot mock God retard it will never work out for you and you sound like a moron
>>23985965And then after this mess, there is supposed to be ANOTHER 1000yr trial. WHAT?????I half-believe.But I don't want to see other anons struggling with substance abuse and teetering on this fence.It's up to you dude!GOD has left humanity fucking to it!
>>23985973Interesting. Didn't realize that. Been a long time since I opened a Bible obviously
>>23985975Elaborate.Because his perspective on the story is entirely legitimate.
>>23985974But again, this is a complaint of your parents.Is it possible your resentment for God is just a projection you have for your family and their way of life?
>>23985983Ignore him, he's just a faggot trolling
>>23985984>Is it possible your resentment for God is just a projection you have for your family and their way of life?Absolutely. I despise them.
>>23985985No retards I have put more pearls before swine in this thread than you can handle Your existence is that of a troll retard
>>23985982That’s kind of the point I have been driving at.There is a massive incongruency between most Christians view on the world, God, and the Bible than the reality contained in each. We have been lied to about these things since birth, from all directions. Virtually all of the liars don’t even realize they are lying, they are just repeating someone else’s lies.These misapprehensions color how we view the world and our place in it. Misapprehensions can be dangerous, one could imagine taking your turn at a stop sign with the misapprehension that it is safe because it is your turn; but the drunk driver T-boning you will be the ultimate arbiter of that reality, not your misapprehensions about safety.
>>23985986You need to get above your parents, your mother should be below you (after you are a grown man) and your father your equal and both you and your dad should be devoted to God It’s okay to distance yourself if they are retards that cause you nothing but gnashing of teeth
>>23985986The. You should consider being more charitable to understanding the real God, rather than despising your parents ill-advised imaginary friend and projecting that on to your true creator.
>>23985995Blows my mind that there are 40,000 denominations of Christianity. Astounding.>>23985991I want to take you on good faith. Help with that.
>>23985997>>23986001Better.
>>23985995I mean I feel like I tried that. I went with the group as my higher power, then just plain God without any religious connotations. And I feel now after having a decade sober that no other God ever showed up for me. I even sponsored a few guys, but never really got anywhere with it. Probably because I still had nothing to give.
>>23986006What if your capacity to question everything was something you could give.
>>23985997>It’s okay to distance yourself if they are retards that cause you nothing but gnashing of teethI still think you're FOS but fortunately they did this past for me by moving to be near my brothers and their kids. Haven't spoken with them since I left their new house in December after arguing with them and having to deal with their usual bullshit. Then they have the audacity to try and call on Christmas and leave a voicemail trying to pretend everything was hunky dory. Lol, the fucking morons.
>>23986001It no longer surprises me after I became a Christian.There aren’t very many branches of Islam nor Judaism, yet 40,000 for Christianity? At minimum, 39,999 established ways to be wrong, despite wanting to walk with God?Not a mistake. Not an accident.
>>23986013Bruh let's be honest. I live in the south and 90% of the old timers in AA are just jesusfags that inject their bullshit into meetings constantly. They aren't looking for questions, they think they have all the answers.
>>23986006I do wish you luck, but I need to go to visit my mother.Thank you for being open with me, I hope you think about this more. I hope once you better understand yourself and your place in this world, you will be able to forgive your family; for they know not what they do.
>>23986020So many petty fucking arguments.Say for each split of any given church.Fucking millions and millions or stupid fucking arguments.It makes me balk hard at believing. I still kind of do, for some surely disgunctional reason.I even went to the fucking Vatican.
>>23986022Valid. My bad.
>>23986026Thanks bud. Enjoy your time. I know they're morons, it's the goddamn arrogance. Best thing honestly is just cutting them off because they will never leave me be.
>>23986032No need to apologize. Theres one old fuck that I hate in particular that does it constantly
>>23985358AA isn't helpful for actual alcoholics.nothing they teach is remotely helpful if you have an actual addiction its just for attention seeking fags who have a "drinking problem" when really its an emotional dysregulation problem or they just don't have a social life outside of drinking.
