If someone suggest that you mine at a loss, tell that nigger to fuck off. He's the reason monero is under attack.

>>60875915
Finally, a real XMR general thread

>>60875915
buy xrp before its too late

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>>60875921
>buy monero and hold
>price increases
>total miner reward increases
>total hashrate increases
>attacks become more difficult

>>60875926
Not anonymous internet money.

>>60875915
>I'm mad about OP not only caring about my bags so I'm now taking over the general
Pathetic

>>60875915
Good job cooking a based thread without bakecel gay fanfics, OP.

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>>60875933
It's not a takeover. We're just mining threads ahead of you and doing a reorg but that's okay.

real thread: >>60875937

>>60875956
GTFO, bakecel nigger. Should've incentivized mining your gay communist thread.

>>60875956
Did you just post the thread that looks like all other generals and actually isn't immediately filled with fud regarding XMR? Not how it works sweaty

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If you're not stacking monero, you are not contributing to its security, which means you do not care about Monero. If you don't care about Monero, you don't care about freedom, because Monero is the only free internet money.

So, in the end we only agree on merge mining and local PoW as long-term solutions? What's the /biz consensus addressing mining profitability and security?

>>60875956
That thread was posted by an automated bot, the OP himself admitted it. Jannies need to clean it up.

>>60876005
Then bakecels will flock here.

>>60875998
What we as /biz/raelis can do is shill Monero buy culture. Monero is an excellent vehicle to keep you wealth private in. It's like a Swiss bank account on steroids.

In the short term, I think the big pools are going to enable DNS checkpoints (you will be able to too). This will prevent big reorgs.
In medium term, Publish or Perish seems promising. It will prevent selfish mining but not 51% attacks.
In the longer term, it's not clear. I hope stabilizing the situation, FCMP++, along with out price centric shilling will increase the price and thus the security budget. According to napkin math, even >$500 makes us safu, with >1k, we're in the clear against non-state actors, above 10k, we're probably clear even against those.

>>60876005
I'm a real human bean. Why centralize with jannies, let the longest thread win. After all, reorgs are natural. Why suddenly worry?

>>60876035
Sounds good. Still not really sold on that publish or perish idea because it doesn't address the ability of an attacker to gather a lot of CPUs and take over the network, i.e. 51%, so the security budget is not improving.

>>60876023
So far the actual general has gotten more attention

>>60876059
And right on cue some retards enters the real general and tries to push people here, pathetic

>>60876059
Thank you for posting in our comfy moonchad thread. You can now go back to your commie friends and jerk off to the thought of a future where everyone is idealistically motivated.

>>60876067
>If you want a usable currency you're a commie

What a pathetic commie bakecel >>60876079
Can't even stay in his own thread with his retarded friends.

>>60876053
Yup. We need to think about the ways to increase the hashrate:
- Raise the price.
- Eliminate zero-cost miners who don't care about the coin.
- Local PoW.
- Merge mining (eww)
- PoS (eww)
- ???

>>60876059
Let them stay there. I think here will be comfier without that OP repeating the same tired bullshit. He's just talking over everyone and you can't reason with him.

>>60876086
You mean just how you tried to infect the previous generals despite not caring about XMR and only advocating for change at any cost?

BTW if anyone wants to put the guides in pastebins to keep the newfags while keeping the OP neat, feel free to do so. I may get around doing it myself later.

>>60876097
>keep the newfags
*help the newfags

>>60876097
>Guys this other general sucks
>Oh btw can anybody copy it please?

>he can't stop bumping the thread he hates
Lmao.

>>60876105
Not copy it. Spamming 15 post each general is retarded. Put them in pastes.

>>60876105
Some of the guides are fine. It's just the bakecels that are retarded

>>60876113
It's 1/3 that but I get your point. I personally prefer having all of the sources available so I can pick which ones I wanna read.

>>60876118
This. Removing idelogical bs like "price action doesn't matter" would improve the copypasta drastically. Instead of spreading harmful ideas, the OP post should just guide newfrens logistically.

>>60876079
You guys keep slipping in the currency word, while avoiding the word money. Because if you said Monero is Money you'd be invoking von Mises and the other Austrian school economists who'd tell you that money is a store of value, as well as a medium of exchange

>>60876133
Ignore him if you don't want to hear the same arguments for the 100th time. He doesn't learn, he's retarded, should be obvious by now.

>>60875998
Assume anyone that didn't buy => 0.5 XMR per year is a fed.

>>60876053
>it doesn't address the ability of an attacker to gather a lot of CPUs and take over the network, i.e. 51%
It does when combined with other solutions, like pushing the price of XMR to 7600 (puts us at Dogecoin's security budget).
Even if it doesn't, at the end of the day It's not the job of the chain to deal with the risk of a 51% attack. Exchanges can institute longer confirmation times if they're that worried about it.

Nice. We are going forward with publish and perish, huh?

>>60876133
And I'd remind you for the 20th time that if it's an investment people will not use it as a currency. There are better suited storages of value and you could easily trade them for XMR when you need to make a purchase.

>>60876138
Because every argument you post is completely incorrect

>>60876105
>reee you cannot copy paste text

>>60876118
Though I think the mining guide could stand a little normie friendly adjustment. It immediately launches into p2 pool, gupax, and all that which is the ideal. But I'm also fine with telling entry level normies "here's XMRig with the default settings. Have fun before you get into it more seriously"

>>60876079
>Evil madman buys all XMR in existence
>Wait 2 mins
>0.6 XMR is produced
>You can now use the currency to buy fat chips

>>60876146
You can but it's kinda funny how you want to crash the general with no survivors and then just copy it

>>60876154
You need to be closer to what I said to strawman

>>60876156
Roflmao
Nigga why are you so much imvested in your skitzo echo chamber thread lmao

Bro can't let go

>>60876156
I I want to copy how to buy Monero, where to download the wallet, how to mine, etc. I don't care about the "here's all the places to buy meth and also why pirate chain, Zcash, Bitcoin, and everyone who is not us is evil" posts

>>60876139
Sui stack proof of reserve VIP clubs when?

>>60876145
>There are better suited storages of value
No there are not. If I already have Monero, the best form of internet money, why would I bother to swap to some snitchcoin. Why bother with the trouble of fees a separate wallet, and the risk of the swap going bad?

>>60876139
Are you really that retarded where you think the solution is "Just raise the price to $7600"? Of course everyone wants the price to be higher. The problem is lots of OGs are even dumping now because the current state of XMR devs move slow as hell, are borderline retarded, and X is full of faggots who do not understand how blockchains work. Other chains have better devs because they get paid more, thus bringing in higher competition, XMR is behind on literally everything and is ran by faggot commies at this point who lost the plot. I have a "whale stack" and it is getting really hard to not dump seeing retarded idea's like yours being floated around and looks like there isn't a single capable dev anymore. It has been over a month with the 51% and nothing has be done, and all proposed solutions are dogshit retarded. We have glowie fluffypony give retarded ideas that obviously are terrible from the start and sperk Luke saying he wants 200k to write a book about PoS that will be done in a few months and then could maybe be implemented in a year. This is why autistic people don't run businesses.

>>60875949
A mere inconvenience.

>>60876168
This.

>>60876174
Not reading all that, but this is a perfect example of the midwit meme. Both the high and low IQ sides would tell you "yes, just make the price go up"

>>60876174
What solutions do you advocate for?

>>60876164
I'm invested in XMR and some retards wanting it to be the next ngu unicorn with 13421342x gains going to the moon

>>60876171
>why would I bother to swap to some snitchcoin.
Because you believe that XMR isn't a good storage of value. If you believe it is you can just continue using it and don't need anything to change.

>>60876152
I already have my own autistic setup, haven't tried Gupax. Is it not pretty easy? You don't even need your node I believe.

>>60876154
Tail emission won. I fucking kneel. It's impossible in practice to buy enough Monero to the point there aren't any left to use, but with tail emission it becomes straight up theoretically impossible.

>>60876184
The real problem is that the devs would have to admit they were wrong about randomX and their worldview retarded if they went with merge mining or ASICs. With dumb shit like a finality layer or DNS checkpointing they can pretend they're still right while making the chain more centralized

>>60876188
>I'm invested in XMR and some
>invest
>d-d-dddid yyyou say the I-WWORD???111

>NEVER INVEST
>NOT AN INVESTMENT
>MINE AT A LOSS
>KEEP XMR OBSCURE TO MY SMALL CLUB OF JUNKIES

>>60876184
The entire reason blockchain and decentralized systems work is because of incentivization. It is how every single even mildly successful one is structured.

Miners NEED to be profitable, if it was probably tons of hash power would show up on the network. This is the only solution. On top of that someone needs to step up and lead a bit to stop letting this retard spergs all going in different directions.

>>60876190
Tail emission is a good thing actually. One of the few things commie community did well. If you consider the future of bitcoin, it's grim: once the last one is mined, there's no incentive to mine anymore, the fees are too small. The network will fail unless they hardfork it into something entirely different. Tail emission provides the same guarantees of virtually 0% inflation while not suffering from the same problem.

>>60876197
Maybe the old OP is just a drug dealer with meth psychosis who wants everyone to keep spending as a way to drum up more business. He did say he went to jail after all, and their OP posts come with a laundry list of all the current drug markets.

>>60875915
Tasteful OP image btw. Glad you started the thread OP.

>>60876145
>if it's an investment people will not use it as a currency
Are you just saying that because BTC taking off coincided with it becoming unusable because blocks filled up?

>>60876195
Actually this too. It really is just miner incentivization and the literal autistic retard devs can't admin they are ever wrong and will spend years trying to find any solution that avoids them looking wrong to begin with.

This is actually a good opportunity for someone to fork and escape these retards holding this chain hostage.

>>60876145
Every penny that everyone saves or hoards gets used at some point. The difference is whether it gets used immediately to buy Funko pops, or used in a decade to buy a house. Incentivizing people to not throw away their lives on cheap crap isn't a bad thing.

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>>60876174
>Are you really that retarded where you think the solution is "Just raise the price to $7600"?
>>60876183
>"yes, just make the price go up"

>>60876197
>If I strawman enough I might win!!!

>>60876209
No because any reasonable actor will not just spend the good that's appreciating in value unless he needs money or sees an even better investment. We don't need to compete in a red ocean since we're dominating the blue ocean already.

>>60876214
I said saving is fine but treating as an investment will hurt the currency.

>>60876224
>>If I strawman enough I might win!!!
>I cannot be confined to my skitzo thread by myself

>>60876226
Yeah I'll also educate any normies you might pull here

>>60876224
You're one of those idiots that misunderstands Gresham's Law aren't you?

>>60876232
Lmao

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Whoops, looks like we're having a minor inconvenience... 66 blocks reorg. Bakecel sisters, our response?

>>60876247
>MINOR
>INCONVENIENCE

>>60876247
prove it

>>60876224
Every act of saving is an act of investment. Someone who saves their money in cash is saying their time preference is too high, or their risk tolerance too low, to justify bonds or stocks or gold or something else. If you put your money is USD rather than EUR you are investing in one countries economy and financial policies over another. Just because it's easier to not think about it when it's cash, or if you pretend Monero is just private fiat, doesn't make it not investing. Anyone who buys Monero is investing in the Monero economy and the benefits it gives over every other economy.

>>60876253
>change my mind
>I am completely skitzo btw

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>>60876253
Here you go. Verify the hash.

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>>60876262
WEEBSISTERS HOLD THE LINE. DONATE TO THE AI COOMER FUND TO RETAKE MONERO
>Captcha: Mog XD

>>60876247
And I'll happily bump your thread to remind everyone that this thread not only fails to look like all other generals but actively wants to copy the general (Current: >>60875937) it hates as seen in >>60876096.

>>60876234
Not related

>>60876255
Feel free to refer to >>60872181 if you want to discuss the terms 'saving' and 'investment'.

>>60876283
>other generals but actively wants to copy the general
Kek. Seething

>>60876283
>discuss the terms 'saving' and 'investment'.
>come to my skitzo bonehead thread guise pweaaase

Remember, when you're replying to eYvI/WFf, you're replying to a first-class retard who keeps repeating the same stupid points thread after thread. Just for clarity.

>>60876283
Alright, then we'll adjust the OP post to our liking removing any bs you were trying to spread in there. And you know, it doesn't look like your opinion stands up to scrutiny itt, in other words
>L + ratio

>>60876293
>Bro we're ratio'd you so hard
>That's why we had to flee the given general
Pathetic

>>60876298
Nigga take your meds. You literally got shat on by everyone in the last 3threads.

>>60876298
If your general is as based as you make it out to be, then surely you wouldn't need to go here? Just let our thread die out due to no activity. Oh wait... can it be that the majority recognizes how retarded your ideology is and doesn't want to associate with it? No way.

>>60876303
Sure bro, I just need to read somebody's theory and then another nigger will complain about common sense

>>60876306
>We can shit up your general but pwease don't shit in ours

>>60876174
The donation funds have fuckton of 'neros in them right? We need to attract good devs. We can pay them if they come. To make them come, we need to communicate a better narrative. The fact that Monero is the only real coin that fulfills the anonymity/fungibility/privacy property of sound money without compromise is interesting on its own. We don't need to add ideological noise to that.

We already have endless material showing why having this is important purely for practical reasons, without going into any ideology.

Then we need people who will evangelize saving money in Monero.

There is also a cool/neat aspect of having money on your device that is truly hidden. Call me crazy but even normies may start doing it and bragging about it one day.

>>60876195
The concern with merge mining I've heard is both BTC or LTC would just crush us using a tiny part of their hash rate because they see us as competition. IDK about the plausibility of it.

>>60876311
Your general now has no moonchads. Why are you still here? Is it hypocrisy I sense in your words? Who could've thought.

>>60876283
It is related because you believe people spend their "bad money" before their "good money" and believe it applies between assets. That's incorrect. It's not like I only buy food because I have shitty dollars that I want to get rid of. If I think dollars suck I'd just buy XMR with them. If Monero was an investment and dominant currency that would be extremely convenient. It's not at all mutually exclusive.

I have some xmr from forever ago, but I've got a say, after reading through the last thread, I'm glad I'm primarily a shiny rocks chad.

>>60876311
>tldr: I am a retard

>>60876318
Nice. Keep your Moneros in your own wallet tho.

Get MoneroGUI or Feather Wallet on a desktop. For bonus points, burn tailsOS into a USB and use Feather in it to store your XMR.

Seeing so many people not falling for the "don't hodl muh currency" and "just mine at a loss" idiocy is truly refreshing. Maybe it's not over for monero.

>>60876313
No, I enjoy the proper general. I just wanna see you squirm again

>>60876317
No, I believe people will not spend the goods that will appreciate in monetary value more than their other goods. I don't think they will spend worse goods first.

>>60876319
>Bro just read some random fag
>Bro just use common sense
>Bro just ignore we're all suggesting different solutions

>>60876318
Well, the shiny rocks have the advantage of being based on the laws of physics enshrined by the fucking God himself. Can't fuck with that. The only problem is you can't use physical gold on the internet, thus the effort to have Monero. I believe a kind of XAU-XMR is going to be the future of free money.

>>60876312
The problem is there is just an incentivization alignment issues across the board.

We need to have a way to incentivize good devs outside of just believing Monero is good for humanity.

We need to incentivize miners to secure the network.

We need to incentivize people to hold. This typically could just come from people believing the in future of XMR although with the current state of devs on qubic absolutely mogging current devs and already have counter measures for proposed solutions looks bleak.

>>60876339
Yeah, I like the idea of xmr, I just know I'm too much of a grug to understand all the backend of it, and thus didn't trust it.

>>60876333
>No, I believe people will not spend the goods that will appreciate in monetary value more than their other goods. I don't think they will spend worse goods first.
So I had you pegged exactly. Will I just have to repeat myself endlessly?

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>>60876370
I cope with the seemingly fragile complexity of human trash by holding my shiny pet rocks too. It's therapeutic, if nothing else.

>>60876390
>That's totally like that law about the quality of something
No

>>60876328
+1

>>60876370
>I'm too much of a grug to understand all the backend of it,
You don't need to, really. Are you keeping your moneros on your own wallet, or on an exchange?

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So, all these coins are worth more than not having your entire financial history in the open? Really? WTF is bidet token? Polkadot? Who the fuck uses that? I have not even seen a manipulated "meme"coin or a stable on that ghostchain. We need to beat these useless snitchcoins. It's embarrassing.

>>60876390
>Will I just have to repeat myself endlessly?
You guessed it. That's what that retard turns these threads into - endless repetition of the same arguments that lead to nothing.

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Can you guys explain what is "bake" and is that 51% stuff i've been hearing really a problem

>>60876395
>I'm wrong in the exact same way bitcoiners quote Gresham's Law but I actually decided to be wrong like this on my own
Good for you then. Address the argument though. At what point would you ever invest in food? And the big question... Why the fuck don't you trade "the goods" that don't appreciate in value as much for goods that do appreciate in value? Your hypothetical world makes no sense. You're just holding garbage that you can't trade for good assets but you can "spend"?

>>60876429
Bakecels is a term that anons used to describe the boneheaded disingenuous retards festered in the xmr general threads for a while.

Bakecels believe:

> Monero mining should be done at a loss
> Monero is not a store of value
> The 9 block reorgs Monero is under right now are a nothingburger

They also keep peddling some methheaded theories that go completely opposite to Austrian school of economics understanding of money and economy. And they keep doing so, even though they got explained over and over where they are wrong in their rationalizations.

>>60876453
Thank you anon

>>60876403
Own wallet, I know that much at least.

>>60876455
Checked. Yw

>>60876460
Based

>>60876429
Basically some scammer came along and rented fuckton of CPUs. He also created a scamcoin called Qubic where he tells miners to mine his hostile Monero pool and in exchange they get more reward. The catch is, the reward is in his shitcoin and not monero. It's basically a ponzi but it has been successful at raising a fuckton of hashrate to disturb the chain. If Monero was worth more and paid miners better, he would not be able to do such things as easily. There is also some suspicious connections which point to universities and glowies that let him get so much hash.

There are bunch of people in Monero community who say shit like price doesn't matter (even doe it directly relates to the security budget of a coin), miner profitability doesn't matter, and how the only thing that matters is spending money on stuff, and how you should not ever stack monero because that's being a moonboy. Someone in previous threads made fun of them saying we can save the coin by doing more bake sales for Monero. So they became bakecels.

Keep stacking Monero. You can spend monero on things of course, but keep increasing your stack. Your stack is your stake in Monero's security. We are going to make it.

>>60876451
>At what point would you ever invest in food?
I don't, I consume food or give it to friends, which makes sense if you were using the terms as I defined them after being asked.
>Why the fuck don't you trade "the goods" that don't appreciate in value as much for goods that do appreciate in value?
Easy, keep the thing that'll make you more money, get rid of the others to buy more of the former. That's why you'd not spend XMR if you believe it'll increase more in value than what you are looking to buy.

>>60876429
Notice that the retards who already answered you pretend like we (everyone who doesn't only care about ngu) don't allow you to have XMR but we do and said so multiple times. You shouldn't treat it as an investment (keeping it so it'll increase in monetary value), you should keep some savings in it.

>>60876486
>we
Meds

>>60876486
>you should keep some savings in it.
Monerochadbros, I think we mindbroke the resident bakecel. He's started to use the words, savings, more and more.

>>60876494
>He's saying the things he said a few generals ago!

>>60876365
>We need to have a way to incentivize good devs outside of just believing Monero is good for humanity.
>We need to incentivize miners to secure the network.
>We need to incentivize people to hold.

All of this happens if XMR goes to 7600.

>>60876195
>The real problem is that the devs would have to admit they were wrong about randomX and their worldview retarded if they went with merge mining or ASICs.
You'd be calling them humble 200 IQ oracles if XMR was at 7600

>With dumb shit like a finality layer or DNS checkpointing they can pretend they're still right while making the chain more centralized
This wouldn't be needed if XMR was at 7600

>>60876486
>admits savings finally

Everybody look: I will make the bakecel squirm:

Simple question: Should Monero be used as a store of value?

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>IT'S LIKE FLUSHING YOUR TOILET

>>60876486
Food is free for you? Trade, spend, invest - these are all the same thing. I seriously can't deal with your bullshit.

>>60876507
>Should Monero be used as a store of value
See >>60872181

>>60876509
No but buying isn't investing. The more you try to widen the definition, the less it'll mean.

>>60876494
The funniest thing is, you won't get him to draw a concrete line between "savings" and "investment". Is 99 xmr still savings? What about 100? 1000? You gotta be careful to not accidentally make profit from your stack, that would mean you're a moonfag!

>>60876486
>Easy, keep the thing that'll make you more money, get rid of the others to buy more of the former. That's why you'd not spend XMR if you believe it'll increase more in value than what you are looking to buy.

couldn't you just spend the xmr then buy more with usd after? I don't see how saving money in xmr is incompatible with trying to support an xmr ecosystem.

>>60876522
>read my fanfic

>>60876470
Ok ok i see thank you

>>60876528
>couldn't you just spend the xmr then buy more with usd after?
If XMR outgrows USD you'd need to have whatever you bought with the XMR you spent make you more USD than what the spent XMR would be worth in USD.

>>60876524
I already said it depends on what you need to keep your operations running in cases of financial burdens. Also profiting off your stack isn't bad, keeping your stack only to profit is bad. If you can't avoid the later (which is very likely with people who can't even understand the previous threads) you should not even be tempted to reach a state to make any profits of it.

>>60876537
>Please answer me something
I already did
>Uhm akchually I don't want an answer
Don't worry, that link will always be available in case you change your mind

>>60876365
>We need to have a way to incentivize good devs outside of just believing Monero is good for humanity.
Even just purely for selfish reasons, I think many will recognize the need for their money to be fungible. Indeed this is why I think Monero is destined from greatness if we help it just a little. It's shocking how many people, even balls deep in crypto, don't know about Monero and what makes it special. They also have not really thought about the implications of snitchcoins. We need to show them.

For example I'm not into Monero because it's good for humanity, even though it can be argued real sound money is, I'm in Monero because I don't want the liability risk of dealing with tainted coins or getting tracked by some later tax regulation and whatnot. Monero is peace of mind for me. A business either accepts Monero, or it doesn't. There is not AML blocked funds bullshit. That's what I like.

>>60876522
Communists must be wordcels that lose contact with reality and get lost in a world of their words. Trading dollars for a stock or a cookie are both just trades. "Buying" just implies you're not thinking much about what you traded away. "Investing" just implies you're expecting a return of some sort.

>>60876556
We're facing the same problems the privacy community as a whole faces, except that we are fighting two uphill battles not just one. The first is the privacy/anonymity front (but it seems more people are coming around to it) but the other is that many people associate crypto currencies as the ngu tech. So we'll have crypto bros who cry about us not giving 3432x returns like diarrheacoin and the anti-crypto people will cry about some other scam they saw on twitter.
That means what we need to tell people first is about not being controlled by someone or the privacy aspects (depending on what will hook them more). And then just let it be, don't be pushy about it and use it on your own so you don't seem disingenuous. It'd also really help to have some people like Louis Rossmann on our side but he'll likely cry about being a brainlet and can't trust us then like how he cried about Graphene.

>>60876578
>Communism is if definitions
>"Investing" just implies you're expecting a return of some sort.
And the problem is people will expect a return from keeping XMR and therefore not use it to transact their wealth.

>>60876549
Alright, so we have person A who needs 10000 xmr for savings, and person B who needs 10. Both don't spend it, it's savings after all. Both are ok in your worldview.
Now let's say person A and B are moonfags who keep the same stacks only for future profit.
What is the difference in terms of the overall impact on the economy?
>inb4: b-b-but in the first scenario they will spend it eventually!
Yes, just like in the second. And in both scenarios people might choose to cover expenses in usd rather than xmr. So what's the difference?

Finally a REAL monero general.
I was tired of the commie thread.

I love profit, but the hate for profit in the XMR community have led to a 51% attack against it.
We need to change that. It is our opportunity to preach the creed of moonboyism, of speculation and profit. The more number go up, the more incentive for miners, and the harder a 51% attack will be.
I had to freeze my fundraiser because of the attack. We need to convert the community to a mindset of profit and speculation, and cut the mic for the commies.

>>60876632
>What is the difference in terms of the overall impact on the economy?
Both already have spending habits that justify their relative savings. If A or B were to act differently and keep XMR only for it to appreciate in value it would hurt XMR, there's other goods they can use instead.
>So what's the difference?
The behavior around how they use it. This is like you're asking me what the difference is between buying a gun to hunt game or shoot up a school.
See
>We need to convert the community to a mindset of profit and speculation, (>>60876640)
as a negative example.

>>60876622
>And the problem is people will expect a return from keeping XMR and therefore not use it to transact their wealth.
Why's that a problem? Some people keep dollars in the bank to earn interest. Is that a problem?

>>60876622
>And the problem is people will expect a return from keeping XMR and therefore not use it to transact their wealth.
False on many levels. The fact bitcoin is not accepted to buy stuff is because the merchants are cucks to payment processors and the State apparatus.
This have nothing to do with people holding it. They dont spend because there is nowhere to spend to. Same can be said about monero which is only used to buy drugs or other illegal stuff. You can't use monero to buy groceries, in the same way you can't use bitcoin as well.
Monero could result in massive profit if there was a incentive for it, instead we have commies preaching poverty to monero holders.

>>60876657
Fair. But:
1) Profit and speculation are good because they attract more people who in turn build the economy of goods.
2) If people don't use monero for private purchases when there's an incentive to hold, then those private purchases are not needed in the first place. The inherent value does not change when the price changes. You're alienating people who would otherwise learn about monero and use it by gatekeeping it from moonchads.

>>60876578
I dont even know if commie is the right word for it. Maybe we should call them feudalists, because they want people to be serfs.
But you dont have financial sovereign while being a wage slave. You will still be a slave for the rest of your life, with or without privacy. You will still be condemned to a life of pain and servitude.
That's why NGU is a core component of the crypto world, and should, yes, be coupled with privacy. Why we should risk our necks with thousands of shitcoins which can be traced, when we have the underdog right here? It is due time to push the speculation ideology into monero.
We dont need people to have mansions and yatchs, we just need them to be free. And the only way to be free is by not wage slaving, by living as a NEET. And in the current neofeudal internet, this is only possible through sheer speculation, in the most shameless anti-/pol/ way.
We need to increase mining incentives now, to usher in a new age of NGU. Many competitors will arise from it, and we will have more privacy coins being developed, creating a cascading effect.

>>60876657
i just don't see why monero should be the one asset that people don't speculate on the future value of. All the government currencies are constantly being traded by speculators, that doesn't impact their use by the public. I don't think that an appreciating currency is the main roadblock to widespread adoption.

>>60876662
>Some people keep dollars in the bank to earn interest. Is that a problem?
On a savings account and only to earn interest? Yeah

>>60876668
>BTC out of the blue
>because the merchants are cucks to payment processors and the State apparatus.
That's only accurate to a degree. Many merchants, even the ones who created their own shop from scratch, will see that there's no very convenient way to implement XMR purchases. So you can use DNMs which is too volatile for most or just do it by hand which only works well if each other is unique or you have so few orders that this wouldn't really be a problem. What really would help us is if some payment processor would start accepting XMR but that's obviously a pipedream.
>Same can be said about monero which is only used to buy drugs or other illegal stuff.
Not really but as a vendor I'd also not accept it if I primarily see it as a storage of value.
>Monero could result in massive profit if there was a incentive for it,
The same problem from above would arise. Most people are not motivated by how hard something is or how much it'd help them or how much time they need to invest but by how convenient it is.
>instead we have commies preaching poverty to monero holders.
But I don't mind you being wealthy or making gains. I'm saying monero should be the means of transacting wealth, not for amassing it.

>>60876702
>Not really but as a vendor I'd also not accept it if I primarily see it as a storage of value.
What?

>>60876702
>Yeah
Why?

>>60876702
>But I don't mind you being wealthy or making gains. I'm saying monero should be the means of transacting wealth, not for amassing it.
You can't transact it while being held hostage by the possibility of 51% attacks and reorgs. You'll never know if it will arrive at the destination or not. It is not convenient to use it that way, so profit is necessary for the security of the network. Also the cascading effect I mentioned would result in more development towards privacy coins, and competition creates attrition, which will make monero better. It could also spearhead a movement against KYC and AML.

>>60876682
>1) Profit and speculation are good because they attract more people who in turn build the economy of goods.
Some people would definitely come but if we can only compete on pricing we're entering a rat race. What currently makes XMR absolutely amazing is its transactional qualities, we need to focus on those primarily.
>If people don't use monero for private purchases when there's an incentive to hold, then those private purchases are not needed in the first place.
I see your point but I disagree with it. We'd basically put people in a position in which they need to ask themselves if the potential they make from selling/trading their XMR is worth the privacy they gain from it.

>>60876697
>i just don't see why monero should be the one asset that people don't speculate on the future value of
See the sentence above.
>All the government currencies are constantly being traded by speculators, that doesn't impact their use by the public.
I see two reasons for that:
1. ForEx basically is just betting on which economy will grow more in comparison
2. ForEx makes up such a miniscule amount that its basically irrelevant for the usage as in the end some big government (and other reliant governments) will back it.
>I don't think that an appreciating currency is the main roadblock to widespread adoption.
I hope I didn't make it sound like that. My point is that we should get to widespread adoption by creating a ngu pr campaign. We should focus on us being the only crypto currency you can use if you want privacy and anonymity, that's why I'm reiterating that we currently have a successful blue ocean strategy. We are unique and if we focus on storage of value instead of being a currency we'll lose that edge and just being #29

>>60876737
>Some people would definitely come but if we can only compete on pricing we're entering a rat race. What currently makes XMR absolutely amazing is its transactional qualities, we need to focus on those primarily.
The only feature that really separates xmr from the rest is its privacy. That doesn't go away if the price goes up or down.
>I see your point but I disagree with it. We'd basically put people in a position in which they need to ask themselves if the potential they make from selling/trading their XMR is worth the privacy they gain from it.
How's that a bad thing? Those who actually need privacy will opt in for transacting in monero anyway. Those who don't need it will not, and that won't change whatever the price action is. You can't force people to value privacy. The only thing you're achieving by keeping those who don't need it out is low security budget.

>>60876717
Imagine for a second a scenario in which everyone just held as much USD as possible. It'd negatively affect the economy, would lead to less stability and in the end those who already have a lot or are less reliant on the economy functioning all the time could just wait it out until more people lose the majority of their wealth or wealth creating assets. If money is more freely flowing around it helps less wealthy people.

>>60876719
>so profit is necessary for the security of the network.
Are you telling me the currency can't be a currency so it needs to turn into a storage of value and disincentivize people using it as a currency to turn it into a currency?
>It could also spearhead a movement against KYC and AML.
I really doubt that. I appreciate your optimism but most people still only care about their convenience. That's why Doug had more success telling the third worlders about how quick the transactions are and how much less dependent on the government you are. Thing make life easier, not thing make money maybe.

>>60876761
>The only feature that really separates xmr from the rest is its privacy. That doesn't go away if the price goes up or down.
The people who will come will not see that value. They see a number and they only want it to go up. Then they will say 'number too high' and it'll go down and the core XMR users will suffer from more volatility. It'll be much worse if Monero is primarily seen as an appreciating good since the inherent qualities are all tied to their transactions.
>How's that a bad thing? Those who actually need privacy will opt in for transacting in monero anyway. Those who don't need it will not, and that won't change whatever the price action is. You can't force people to value privacy. The only thing you're achieving by keeping those who don't need it out is low security budget.
My point is that you'll put a price on privacy and many will need to ask themselves how much their privacy is worth to them. This will just lead to those who already can buy themselves out of any lawsuit being able to afford privacy while normal people won't be able to afford that.

>>60876787
>The people who will come will not see that value. They see a number and they only want it to go up. Then they will say 'number too high' and it'll go down and the core XMR users will suffer from more volatility. It'll be much worse if Monero is primarily seen as an appreciating good since the inherent qualities are all tied to their transactions.
That's not true at all. People learning about bitcoin as an investment also notice that they can pay with it for goods on the white market. Number go down is mitigated by the adoption scale and how useful monero is actually. You don't see as much volatility with bitcoin nowadays as before. Besides, you don't really have much choice: it's either risk it attracting normies hoping that it would speed up the adoption, or just die under funny little attacks. You can't make the network secure enough without ngu if use PoW, it's impossible. Altruistic miners don't exist in such quantities.
>My point is that you'll put a price on privacy and many will need to ask themselves how much their privacy is worth to them. This will just lead to those who already can buy themselves out of any lawsuit being able to afford privacy while normal people won't be able to afford that.
They already have to ask themselves how much the privacy is worth, because monero is not really usable for a normal person. That could change if more people were attracted to it.
Regarding rich get richer - it is how the real world works. Commie fantasies about equality don't work in reality, otherwise the network wouldn't have been under a successful attack. And it does not have anything to do with poor people being able or unable to use monero to buy goods because the price of goods is the same in $.

>>60876763
>Are you telling me the currency can't be a currency so it needs to turn into a storage of value and disincentivize people using it as a currency to turn it into a currency?
Yes, because a currency needs to be reliable, and the best way to do this with a cryptocurrency is by discouraging 51% attacks. How do you discourage 51% attacks? By making number go up. Otherwise you'll have a vapor currency, that is only used for beautiful ideological speeches.

>>60876787
>This will just lead to those who already can buy themselves out of any lawsuit being able to afford privacy while normal people won't be able to afford that.

>Be distant future
>XMR moons to $100 trillion
>1 piconero = $0.01
>Be serf in Commierica
>Go to underground farmer's market
>Swap $5 for 499 piconeros
>Pay 450 piconeros for gallon of raw milk
>Pay 2 yoctoneros in fees
>Give praise to articmine for never adjusting the fees
>Go home
>Drink raw milk

>>60876919
Feels so good to be a moonchad. I love it.

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XMR mining should be profitable.

>>60876947
Buy some solar panels

>>60876989
You mean spend money on dedicated mining equipment? Okay. But only if I can do so at a profit.

Tail emissions are so little in relation to the whole supply that Monero may as well be considered to have a finite supply.
Ergo as a finite supply good, with increasing adoption as a currency, number is guaranteed to go up.
To pretend that number going up is bad for it being used as a currency, is utterly retarded because it ignores the fact that Monero is practically a finite supply good.

>>60876989
Pay me.

Medium of exchange - store of value is a false dichotomy. Stop falling for this shit. It was invented by Bitcoiners because Bitcoin fundamentally did not fulfill one of the pillars of sound money, fungibility. Fees too but I would argue that was secondary to fungibility. Monero doesn't lose its killer feature of privacy if it is used more as a wealth store or a medium of exchange. In fact, more or less it will always be used as both because that's how sound money behaves. Stop falling for the absolutisms of that retard. If it was an "either or" then all the coins would be worth either infinity or zero.

[All this wordcel shit] < "Wow this crypto hides my money!"

It really is that simple. Will they store that money? Will they use that money? Basically it's none of your business and the free market will figure it out. As long as Monero remains private and the transaction fees are not exorbitant (less than 1 dollar) that's a field wide open for the free market.

>>60876761
Yeah, private internet store of value is still a unique proposition. You can totally flip eYvI/WFf's argument on its head and advocate storing private wealth in Monero and then swapping to USDT for spending. Indeed, USDT seems to have all the features he cares about.

>>60876787
Oh no! Volatility! Because we totally don't have that. Bitch shut the fuck up. It's free market. You can't force people not to save or speculate. Fucking commie. Go shill CBDC where "smart" money comes with an expiration date. That will be real good for spending, after all.
Ah and yes everyone will hold and never sell. How come come Bitcoin's price is not infinity then, genius?

>>60877238
+1

>>60876989
No.

>>60876947
Infinite riches and big tit bitches. My kinda /general/.

>>60877238
I do feel like the keynesian system is the biggest psyop in history..

>>60877238
>It's free market.
Then we can just accept how xmr is right now

>>60877460
So you'd rather let it die than see moonfags get their bags pumped. Gotcha. Showing the true colors now.

>>60877505
>Just accept what how the free market reacts
>No not like that!!!

>>60877523
Yes, free market tells you that a project built on commie bs and paranoia is DOA. That's the entire premise of why moonchads tell you it needs to change. So hard to understand?

>>60877541
Again, fork the code then, literally nothing is stopping you

>>60877552
>lack of devs
>obvious technical and reputational difficulties resulting from any fork
>division of the network that makes it weaker
Are you really that stupid, or simply disingenious?

>>60877587
>>lack of devs
Just be your own devs
>>obvious technical and reputational difficulties resulting from any fork
Right now would be the perfect time to capitalize on all the qubic fud
>>division of the network that makes it weaker
It would be a second network
Why are you so technologically illiterate?

>>60877606
I'm not going to comment on another bunch of disingenuous bullshit. Go to your commie friends, retard. Or stay and keep getting shat on by others itt, I guess you're into this sort of stuff.

>>60877614
>I don't know how to fork the code
Pathetic

If a discussion of crypto ever comes up, mention people how the problem with all the crypto coins is how all the transactions are actually in the open and it's making it pain in the ass to transfer money or cash out, and ruins the promise of crypto making money easy to move and hide... Well, except this one little Monero coin that actually does hide the money, but not many use it yet. Oh well, whatever.

>>60876919
>>60876947
Based. By the way, we will have 20 XMR proof of reserve clubs around the world in the future. XXX XMR level insider business deals along with private yacht and luxury property sales will be happening there. So make sure to keep your stack piling.

>>60877587
Just ignore him, he doesn't own Monero. He spent it all! Marschads are the future.

>>60877638
We aren't forking anything 'lil bro. We're the Monero.

>>60875915
do people actually think monero has a shot at success?
governments have already adopted bitcoin, the most trackable asset in human history
you may accelerate our dash to a dystopian future, but at least you'll be able to afford a nicer pod if you have bitcoin

>>60877664
>We're monero
>But we just can't convince the majority of users
If you truly believe the free market would favor monero+ASICs there's no good reason not to create some new coin. *Nobody* is stopping you, I'm even encouraging you

>>60877667
Undoubtedly yes but first we need to eradicate the moonfag mindset

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We will shift the culture to be more conducive to pumping Monero's price to Mars.
We will establish the improved consensus.
We will grow Monero, both in wealth and market.
We will win. Monero will win. Financial freedom will win.

>>60877677
>But we just can't convince the majority of users
Oh, really? We're already doing just that. Given that you lost your thread, to great success.

>>60877685
>We imitated your thread, so we won
Sweaty the majority of the posts here are me correcting you and you crying about it

This thread is the longest chain (measured in cumulative shitposting PoW).

>>60877667
Definitely. It becomes harder and harder to transfer wealth without being tracked. Give it 10 more years, and monero will be the last resort of financial freedom in most of the world. CBDC, govs cracking down on cash, development of onchain analytics, worsening rich vs poor gap with growing prices in general - the less financial freedom people have, the more they need something like monero.
The only problem is that monero is held back by its own success: the way it enables people to take back their financial freedom is very attractive to the literal cancer of any economic system - communists. We have one in this thread, and no amounts of common sense are enough to un-brainwash him.

>>60877722
>Communism is when you want a private and anonymous currency

"Sound money"

xrp is not money and it never will be. It isn't even currency nor will it ever be. All crypto is a fucking rugpull. Keep telling yourselves and your cult that there will be global adoption by 2026. Or whatever goalpost you faggot scammers keep moving it to. It's so hard to keep up with the years as you keep lying to everyone about its usefulness. The only things that matter are silver and gold. In that order. That's it.

>>60877730
Saar, chainlink vs xrupee thread is two blocks down.

>>60877730
Looks like someone's bot malfunctioned

>>60877722
Monero is not ideology. Monero for me is very practical. Financial freedom is not ideology, it's very practical. Not having your money blocked or stolen is very practical. Monero is peace of mind for my wealth. I already experienced this.

>>60877730
The fuck is xrp? Hey anyway, you wanna make your money untraceable? Like, totally hidden? Like, it's just money, and there is no "it came from this address, here's all the transactions on the block explorer"? Like for anyone, even the police?

>>60877738
I said all crypto but you know you tried to omit that fact fucking retard.

51%

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>>60877751
If you think we're XRP you don't even know what you're talking about. Picrel should help you

>>60877677
>we need to eradicate the moonfag mindset
Not going to happen, commie.
Moonchads are here to stay. NGU is the only way for monero to survive, else we will have more 51% attacks in the future. And who knows, in one of these the network might be really end up dead, and we will have no way to anonymize our profits anymore.

>>60877781
>If I personally don't make massive gains XMR will fall

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Lmao, someone's seething. So, uhm, when this operation is over, wanna grab some beer, officers?

>>60877792
Exactly. The writing is on the wall. No profit = 51% attacks.

>>60877806
So you disagree with >>60877238 that the free market just chose against your personal gains? Do you need to manipulate the markets now?

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Each monero we stack is a hit with a sledge hammer against the walls (((they)))'re constantly building around us against our financial freedom.

Think about it. Objectively some small coin, but what else is attacked like this? Central fucking banks will single it out. Regulated exchanges will list every coin down to top #1000, but not Monero. They will try to attack it directly... The truth is, we either have Monero, or we don't have any real financial privacy in crypto and any kind of digital money. What else has such stakes?

They're trying to normalize money not being anonymous/fungible/private, something that is a fundamental property of real money. Every monero we stack, the more difficult we're making it for them. Remember: People used to just have gold and silver. No transaction history. No automatic reporting. They're trying to make sure no such thing happens to digital money.

If we stack, eventually Monero will grow so big, the fact you can keep and send wealth completely anonymously on the internet, as if trading precious metals in private, will become a fact of life they will just have to accept, to much of their seething. Remember, in the 1990s they tried to ban encryption, then it became free speech.

>>60877822
>Remember: People used to just have gold and silver. No transaction history. No automatic reporting. They're trying to make sure no such thing happens to digital money internet.
By the way, this alone is enough to debunk any argument that a currency cannot be an investment at the same time.

>>60877838
I already rebuked that in the last general

>>60877821
What free market? The one where 51% of the hashrate is controlled by a single pool, which is dumping monero for profits on a random shitcoin?

>>60877865
The one where you repeatedly lost because people realize they need some medium of transaction not the millionth ngu coin

>>60877884
As the others have said time and again, you can have a medium of transaction and a store of value at the same time. That's what true money is.
But I'm not going to entertain your attempts at gaslighting. It is not going to work against reality. There have been 9 reorgs already.

>>60877728
>Communism is when you dont want profits in a private and anonymous currency
FTFY

>>60877892
It's time we start ignoring him. You see that arguing with him in good faith just doesn't work: he's unable to comprehend anything beyond his commie little world where monero is great as is, nothing happens, and incentives are not needed.

>>60877892
>you can have a medium of transaction and a store of value at the same time.
If it's the same good it'll heavily disincentivize not spending it. You'd first spend whatever else will not go up even more.
>Gaslighting
That's not even the right term

>>60877899
>What? You want people to use the currency instead of radically changing it so I can make profits?
The free market proves your ideas about Monero are wrong and if you were anywhere near right you could just make another crypto currency that's just like XMR but requires ASICs.

>>60877900
See above, also there are incentives, that being having a private, anonymous and usable currency. If the market doesn't deem that important enough to support it, then there's no reason for you to cry about it. None of you are stopped from making your own shitty XMR code fork that just removes randomx and adds some ASIC-non-resistant algo. You all know that isn't what you care about and that's why none of you are doing it.

>>60877900
They have a false general, where they circlejerk about communism. The fact he comes here means he acknowledges our general as the real one. So he wants to gaslight us real users.
I suspect Qubic's hashrate came from glowies, the same who dont want to see ngu on monero. Think about it, ngu would skyrocket adoption of monero, and glowies dont want it. So they post these fake generals where they preach against monero use, then 51% attack it. It is not enough to delist it from exchanges, they need to kill the network itself.

>>60877955
I don't think he's a glowie, just a brainwashed retard. But if I was a glowie, I'd definitely try one of two things:
1) Hack monero so I can observe all transactions without anyone knowing.
2) Infiltrate the community to spread ideas that hurt adoption.
The bakecel narratives in that other general actually fit the second one. If enough people are convinced that monero can magically avoid getting 51%'d without making securing the network economically beneficial, then it's over for monero, it just won't take off as it should.

>>60877677
No need to go ASICs.
Only promote the coin as a true store of value that's better than BTC and that does what BTC was originally created for.
We only need 7400 per XMR to be resistant to government attaks while keeping RandomX and CPU mining.
Moon is the solution.

>if people start to hoard a coin that is infinitely divisible and infinitely produced, people might stop spending it!

So here’s the funny thing: Worthless low cap currencies are not used unless forced by law to locals. Nobody is buying things with Albanian seashells or whatever. They’re using the largest market cap currencies like USD and EUR. Being low market cap does not bode well for becoming a used currency. Not that I even care about this as a reason to pump Monero. Monero must go up as a matter of bare security before all else.

>>60878040
Ultimately, yes, ngu is the solution. But getting there requires having a healthy secure network. And for that, ASICs in local PoW is one of the possible reasonable solutions.
I don't believe you can attract the masses without nailing down the basics first.

>>60878065
Just to clarify, it would resolve the qubic fiasco by cutting off rented power. It won't protect against 51% in general, although it will make it harder to execute, which should be good enough.

>try to spend sweet moneros at the bake sale
> monerod: Error opening database: Failed to obtain m_spenders: MDB_BAD_TXN: Transaction must abort, has a child, or is invalid
>"NOOOOOO THOSE DAMN HOARDERS BLOCKED MY TRANSACTION!"

>>60878089
Kek. More like
>NOOOO WHY GREEDY NORMIE BASTERDS WOULD NOT MINE AT A LOSS???

Lmao look at the baggies itt. Looking forward to the big crash while you guys cope

>just sell bootleg Prada bags and power banks, bro

Decided to look into just how long it would take to bring in the capital via black markets using the 2 best examples I could find:

Silk road
>Operated for 2 years (2011-2013)
>Estimated $1.2 billion in transactions

Hydra market
>Operated for 6 years
>$5.2 billion in transactions

So call it $700 million a year in transactions on average for 2 of the largest online black markets we know about. We can be generous and round up to $1 billion even to account for smaller markets and bake sales, and say all the sales directly contributes to market cap.

To get to Dogecoin's daily security budget would take 130 years. Even if you double my estimate, it'd take 75 years.
Better start baking guys!

>>60878471
>To get to Dogecoin's daily security budget would take 130 years. Even if you double my estimate, it'd take 75 years.
Impressive. I didnt know it was that bad.

BUY MONERO
DON’T SELL MONERO
BUY MONERO
DON’T SELL MONERO
BUY MONERO
DON’T SELL MONERO
BUY MONERO
DON’T SELL MONERO
BUY MONERO
DON’T SELL MONERO

>>60878065
What about all the old ASICs that no longer can mine bitcoin? They could be used to mine monero.

The motivation for bake talk is to prevent low IQ HODL retards from flooding the coin and taking over like in bitcoin, preventing hard forks before it's technologically finished. FCMP is far from the last straw, there is still no way to scale.
If you start telling people to close their eyes and stack, it'll be like every other coin on the market.

while it's true that security budget increases linearly with price, so too does the security risk of an economic 51% attack.

Remember goy, just hold and never spend

>>60878531
All old ASICs are still SHA256 meaning anyone with a more modern machine could dominate the network. Plus there's the problem of who is allocating what asics to what network, does a Bitcoin farm decide to 51% Monero for shits. Same problem of Monero miners =/= total mining hardware supply that CPUs have. It's a pity AI came to dominate the GPU space as there was a big void after ETH left.

>>60878702
Bitcoin didn't fail because of HODL tards, it failed simply because it wasn't fungible.

How do we increase Monero's liquidity?

>>60878525
Based. And whenever you spend for goods and services, always do

>spend and replace

>>60877984
>1) Hack monero so I can observe all transactions without anyone knowing.
You know that isn't easily done with FOSS right? Take a look at the xz tools drama
>2) Infiltrate the community to spread ideas that hurt adoption.
If you think 'Don't treat this like another crypto scam' hurts the adoption I'm unsure if I can still help you, but I'll try anyway

>>60878040
>No need to go ASICs.
In the previous general a lot of anons tried to convince the rest that we needed ASICs to not be 51%ed. I told those anons that they are free to fork the code and just slap some ASIC algo on top of it. Considering they are so incompetent when it comes to tech that they believe it'd split the network they obviously can't do that.
>Moon is the solution.
Nobody disagrees with the price itself going up at all. What people rightfully disagree with is being used as yet another pump and dump. If we treat it as such there's no reason for anyone to start using XMR since our qualities don't lie in ngu (and they won't until big govts and tradfi stop targeting us, they can send as many bearish signals as they want) but in the transactions.

>>60878531
The problem we face is that we clearly have some APTs attacking us. It doesn't matter if it's an actual govt, a collection of govts, some tradfi conglomerates or any combination of the above. As soon as we say 'We're switching to ASICs' those threat actors (who clearly can spend absurd amounts of money and did so in the last month through some no name goy puppet with an absolutely obvious crypto+AI scam) they will know. As soon as they know they can either seize old ASICs if they are compatible with whatever our ASIC algo would be or buy up the newer ones. They could just as easily restrict their purchases and give out draconian sentences for ASIC users. They already prepared this with all the 'BTC is so bad for the environment' talk a few years back.
XMR chose CPU mining since it'd be easier for anyone to participate in it while also being harder to restrict. If we were now to move away from this we'd lose miners and permanently open ourselves up to more interference by APTs. The sybil resistance we get from ASICs can *only* work if you have a network that isn't targeted. That's why I'm telling the moonfags here who cry out for ASICs to build their own chain. That's the *only* way their ideas would work.

>>60879239
>Nobody disagrees with the price itself going up at all.
wow, the bakecel is chainging his tune. What a beautiful thing to see.

>What people rightfully disagree with is being used as yet another pump and dump.
No anons so far is suggesting we turn monero into pump and dump. You are simply being disingenuous and not arguing in good faith. You simply try to cloud our Monero general with your nonsense nonsequiturs.

That's a good of a time as any to remind people: the actual general is >>60875937, not the thread we're in right now. Check which one of the OPs closer matches the agreed upon previous OP: >>60868895
(Hint: it's not the one we're in right now but they discussed copying it as said in >>60876097)

>>60879239
>>60879245
>>60879248
>47 pbtid
Jesus Christ buddy, are you mad that people left your culty little thread? Monero has a security issue, a substantial portion of the devs and community are ignoring it, downplaying it, or coming up with centralized "solutions". We are discussing solutions that have been shown to work. It's important to talk about these with the devs and community so that Monero does well instead of just rage quitting. Stop shitting yourself because your OP drove away everyone who doesn't buy into his psychotic worldview.

>>60879245
>XMR chose CPU mining since it'd be easier for anyone to participate in it while also being harder to restrict.
Participate with what? That 300 H/s you get on your raspberry pi, or your car stereo?

I am not a big asic fan, but randomx also makes those everyday CPUs you have lying around a really pisspoor hashrate contributor. Yeah, you can mine with your desktop computer, and get 3000 H/s. But that amount is piss in the bucket compared to the total network hashrate, and it won't get you your electricity expenses back, nor will it give you any sizeable (over the dust amount) XMR coins.

>>60879248
>the actual general is
kek
Monero generals are fungible. People participate in the ones they like. If you aren't getting discussion going on your skitzo echo chamber (posting from multiple devices to seem as there are multiple IDs in your thread) then it is a (You) problem.

>>60876470
>scammer
>a man who made over half of the crypto inventions and being claimed as satoshi

i see moneropedotrannys are in fear that he devs out your drug addict coin

>>60876312
>BTC or LTC would just crush us
Doge merge mines with Litecoin and they get along fine. Litecoin miners get additional profit for playing ball with doge, and dogecoin gets extra security that they wouldn't otherwise get. Some sort of merge mining with Bitcoin would probably be a bad idea though, in case the Matthew Kratter types see it as an opportunity to crush Monero, regardless of the lost profit.

>>60879246
>wow, the bakecel is chainging his tune. What a beautiful thing to see.
No, I said multiple times that ngu in itself isn't bad. People treating XMR as an investment (only keeping it to make profit, not for savings) is.
>No anons so far is suggesting we turn monero into pump and dump.
That is precisely what is being done if anons argue about far overvaluing the monetary value by not making it reliant on the underlying qualities of the technology. That's why posters like >>60877822 tell you to stack XMR but not mine to make sure the network is safe.
>You are simply being disingenuous and not arguing in good faith.
You can try that line as much as you want, I'll still stand here and openly defy your retardation.

>>60879249
>We are discussing solutions that have been shown to work
ASICs won't work in our case and if I need to show you that again you might have a reading problem.
>with the devs and community
Oh yeah we surely never heard about ASICs before
>OP drove away everyone who doesn't buy into his psychotic worldview.
The view of not making this another ngu coin with no discernable difference from the other 28 ones with a bigger market cap?

>>60879250
>Participate with what?
Mining pools that are powered by a multitude of people mining and not just jumping ship as soon as AIDS coin comes along with the promise of growing 10 gorillion x
>but randomx also makes those everyday CPUs you have lying around a really pisspoor hashrate contributor.
That's why it always was about everyone contributing a little bit. These concepts work and shown to be extremely hard to suppress hence why you can still easily torrent whatever you want despite being a target ever since the 90s
>and it won't get you your electricity expenses back
Oh no, not less than $1 per day! If that cost is too high for your privacy and anonymity you'd also not buy an ASIC

>>60879253
>If more people are arguing in this thread it means it's doing better
>Everyone I dislike is a single person

>>60879250
>but randomx also makes those everyday CPUs you have lying around a really pisspoor hashrate contributor.
Case in point: https://xcancel.com/DouglasTuman/status/1961562008609829222#m

>13kH/s hashrate, which means he is on a decent CPU
>been running for 13 days straight
>only 0.016 XMR (~4 USD) earned
>avg daily earnings 4 USD/13days = 30 cents
>in US east coast apparently the kWh price for electricity is 20 cents
>so earning 30 cents a day
>costing, 20 cents * 24 H = 5 USD a day

It is not nothing, but also not encouraging to keep mining.

>>60879271
>That is precisely what is being done if anons argue about far overvaluing the monetary value
No. You are simply losing your mind over nothing. Btw, thanks for the bumps here in the real XMR general thread :)

>>60879279
>XMR's qualities totally lie in us not using it at all and selling it later to make more USD
>Btw, thanks for the bumps here in the FAKE XMR general thread :)
I'm glad I could help, especially by reminding everyone that >>60875937 is the real one you are openly trying to copy.

>>60879285
>I'm glad I could help
you do what you can :)

>le real thread is there guise
>last post 3 hrs ago
wow nice lively convo you got going on

>>60879271
>ASICs won't work in our case
You are ignoring a real, ongoing threat to Monero in favor of an imagined threat that you've provided no real evidence for. You are claiming that the feds will jump on miner acquisitions from day 1, despite the bureaucracy never having been shown to be efficient, and despite the government always preferring to govern through regulation, rather than direct action. Merge mining doesn't even require the creation of new hardware, while also getting rid of the zero-cost miners.

>another ngu coin with no discernable difference
Monero's discernible difference is it's privacy. Something no other network has. Being fairly valued and having access to liquidity doesn't make this magically disappear.

>>60879290
I don't like the idea of being merge mined with LTC. We should focus on getting Monero miners some decent sum (not to make them rich, but also not make them poor, give them some earnings and some hope along with better incentives to protect the Monero network.)

>>60879289
>Uhm sweaty you're not constantly spamming about bs?
How about you check how many of the posts here are me or about me? I'd wager over 50%

>>60879290
>You are ignoring a real, ongoing threat to Monero
No, but the solution you provide is far worse. If you agree we're being attacked you need to see that any attacker can also just buy ASICs.
>You are claiming that the feds will jump on miner acquisitions from day 1
Yes because you need to announce this kind of stuff for months. Especially since ASICs won't just suddenly make XMR be mined at a profit. You all can't even agree on whether you want mixed ASIC and CPU mining or ASICs only.
>despite the bureaucracy never having been shown to be efficient,
Easily solved by an executive order. Tell trump that the chinese are using XMR to circumvent his tariffs and he'll have more ASICs in a week than the entire XMR community could have in a month.
>rather than direct action
We're still going with the 'Qubic totally just is some slavic nobody who requires literal servers for you to participate and enough people bought into his crypto+AI scam' narrative?
>Merge mining doesn't even require the creation of new hardware, while also getting rid of the zero-cost miners.
Yet another approach the majority doesn't agree upon
>Monero's discernible difference is it's privacy.
Oh, so you're again talking about its transactional qualities? Why we do we need to hold it so much then?
>Being fairly valued and having access to liquidity doesn't make this magically disappear.
Being used as an investment will massively overvalue XMR. You are trying to attract normies and crypto bros by promising ngu instead of just showing them the best currency in existence. That's the problem with the moonfag mindset.

>>60879309
>>Uhm sweaty you're not constantly spamming about bs?
LMAOO
Spamming BS is what your chief bakecel does at the start of every threads he shits out. KEK.

>>60879313
>We totally never spammed our shitty moonfag memes as soon as there was a new, real general

>>60879319
who are you quoting

>>60879321
>Uhm sweaty I didn't say that I just accused you and everyone who doesn't want to subvert XMR to do what we're doing

>>60879327
meds

>>60879330
>If I post enough 4chin memes people will think I'm not here to subvert the discussion

>>60879309
I agree Monero is being attacked by one autist with a budget. As far as the US government is concerned their involvement has been regulation, delisting Monero from exchanges, trying to deanonymize the network, but not outright trying to 51% attack the network because if they did, it would be dead already.

The benefit of ASIC (or GPUs) over CPUs is purely that it removes 0 cost miners who don't have to take economics into consideration when mining and who result in some deal of price suppression. Also they remove the problem of the total number of CPUs in the world far exceeding the number used to mine Monero, so that a lot of new hardware can be immediately brought online to attack the network.


Actually are you the OP of the other general? Is that why you're so mad? Reaping what you sow doesn't sit well with you? All we're trying to do here is have a discussion. We're not all perfectly aligned on the best course of action. But at least we can discuss things without being railroaded by the other OP. Though you're trying hard to railroad things here. Why don't you go back to your dead thread instead?

>>60879366
checked and based

>>60879366
>with a budget.
With an absurd budget that, by the most conservative estimates I saw, be in the hundreds of thousands per day. I highly doubt some AI grifter slav nobody can come up with that out of nowhere.
>it would be dead already.
Honestly that'd be a massive leap forward for them. DNMs and hackers would need to face a difficult decision in which they can cease to exist or have to use a worse currency. The digital black market would immediately be stopped in its tracks.
>Actually are you the OP of the other general?
No and I had hoped it'd be obvious by us speaking and acting differently.
>All we're trying to do here is have a discussion.
And apparently I'm the center of it. So far you haven't managed to discuss any of the solutions you favor or wish to avoid. I figure part of it is the utter technological incompetence on display here by people who think forking the code means splitting the network.
>Though you're trying hard to railroad things here.
You shat up the actual general for weeks, I'll correct you as long as you're on here.
>Why don't you go back to your dead thread instead?
Why do you retards think that we need minutely responses to not be dead? We have discussions happening but none of them are asking how we can change XMR for our bags.

>>60879411
>And apparently I'm the center of it.
nope, you are just a minor annoyance. you keep trying to interject yourself into the thread with nonsensical nonsequiturs. We would do perfectly fine without your brainfarts itt.

>>60879424
22.5% of the posts are made by me. Another 31.25% of posts are at least partially replying to me. Some posts that are talking about me weren't counted. I'm making up over 50% of the content here. And so far none of you have managed to come up with a reason as to why you all shouldn't just make your own chain. What a pathetic thread.

>what a pathetic thread
roflmao.

>>60879445
>Avoids giving me a (You) so he can fight my utter dominance over this thread

>look ma
>I am "dominating"
KEK

>>60879461
You know that it won't help much if I'm just responding to you right? If you want I can also count the amount of times you people talk about me, then I'll likely be around 60%

>>60879309
It's good that you realize your posts are bs. The patient is healing it seems.

>>60879003
And the block size

>>60879269
You're asking Charles 'Conflict of Interest' Lee to not cuck to regulators who don't want the merge to happen.

>>60879485
>Then he can finally join is in being completely unsure what to do!
Considering I know how forking a repository works I'd be the most valuable contributor to the moonfaggotry

>>60879608
>if I strawman hard enough they will surrender
Not how it works, retard. Yet you keep trying thread after thread. Thanks for the bumps btw.

>>60879621
>Literally the same retard that thinks forking the code means splitting the network (>>60877587)
Just create your new chain, the free market would chose it over the obviously so much more inferior monero with it's icky CPU mining right?

>>60879638
>Just create your new chain,
Nope. We are right fucking here. Seethe all you want.

>>60879638
You're retarded, go back. You don't deserve a genuine discussion because you don't argue in good faith.

>>60879644
>We are here and we want you to change but we are not even sure what change we want!

>>60879645
>Doesn't even deny how wrong he is about forking
It's ok, not everyone is a programming genius that understands basic git functions

>>60879662
You're retarded, go back. You don't deserve a genuine discussion because you don't argue in good faith.

>>60879645
His only aim is to insist on his retardation and make the real /xmr/ general threads go on rapidly, filled with vacuous, cat-herding discussions.

>>60879666
The only thing he's achieving so far is us taking over the general, and a lot of wasted time on his side. Something to celebrate, I guess.

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>>60879670

>>60879664
>If I say it twice I might be right!

>>60879666
The real general wouldn't need to argue about how to copy the previous general as you did in >>60876097. The real general would look like the previous generals which you constantly shat up with moonfaggotry.
That's why >>60875937 remains the real general.

>>60879670
>We're winning because we have more engagement
And I'll remind everyone that you thought a code fork means splitting the network

>>60879678
>if I strawman hard enough they will surrender
You're retarded, go back. You don't deserve a genuine discussion because you don't argue in good faith.

>implying there is "real" general
lmfao. nigga cannot let go. his parasocial relationship to this basket weaving forum is insane.

>guise come backkk

>>60879683
>Strawman
>>division of the network that makes it weaker (>>60877587)

>>60879684
>>implying there is "real" general
>His only aim is to insist on his retardation and make the *real* /xmr/ general threads go on rapidly, filled with vacuous, cat-herding discussions. (>>60879666)

>>60879692
>>60879253

>>60879702
Did you forget you used the word real in your own post (>>60879666) less than 20 minutes ago?

>>60879309
>You all can't even agree on whether you want mixed ASIC and CPU mining or ASICs only.

This, basically >>60875664. There's no other way that ASICs could help imo.

>Why we do we need to hold it so much then?
Because it's by far the simplest and fastest way I can think of to push the price up.

>Being used as an investment will massively overvalue XMR.
Then don't invest retard. You have several options available to you that don't affect your medium of exchange ideals at all. If holding XMR bothers you that much then dump whatever you buy into the dev fund, or build some dual epyc rigs and give them away to people who can afford to mine, or send it to a paper wallet and burn it, or send it to me. I actually don't care what you do with the coins you buy as long as you buy them (preferably from an exchange, directly or indirectly).
Just buy the coin, retard.

OP, here's the edited version of the newfag guide without gay antimoonchad stuff, feel free to add or remove what you think is necessary and put it in the next thread: https://pastebin.com/0AxVPSra

>>60879747
>There's no other way that ASICs could help imo.
There's disagreement among the people itt. Some are pushing for full ASIC mining, some only ask for ngu.
>Because it's by far the simplest and fastest way I can think of to push the price up.
I get that buying XMR pushes the price up but if we don't incentivize more vendors on accepting it by paying more in XMR I don't see more widespread acceptance. If some customer came up to me and said 'I wanna pay with this coin you never saw before' I'd laugh at him but if some other business owner told me how much more sales he has because he's the only one accepting XMR that'd definitely make me do some research on it.
>Then don't invest retard
It's not just about my mindset, it's about the community's mindset and how others will see it. If some new fren came in here and just saw the millionth ngu random shit coin make massive gains thread he'd just close the tab but if he saw that we offer him something he never had (Freedom from banks, privacy, anonymity, fungibility etc) he'd have at least a reason to be emotionally and intellectually invested in the thread. That's how we could easily btfo >>60877730 without needing some graphs with some lines between to random candles showing we'll moon in just two more weeks.

>>60879759
>Guys we are totally like the real thread because we copied them
Good job, only took you almost a day

>>60879776
Cry more, pussy.

New general copypasta:
https://pastebin.com/0AxVPSra
https://pastebin.com/0AxVPSra
https://pastebin.com/0AxVPSra

>>60879780
>New general
Wait I thought this was the true, regular and based general? Are you telling me this is some new, changed version of the general that always worked?

File: 1614813746094.jpg (1.54 MB, 1472x2508)

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I'm so glad you people made your own containment thread, because you all should be admitted to a mental hospital with the autistic posts going on here.

Bakecel OP on suicide watch. So happy you guys are boxing him out. He deserves to be some sidelined whiner minority faggot, not the creator of Monero general.

Also - disclaimers no longer needed!!

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>>60879952
Based.

>>60879776
>There's disagreement among the people itt. Some are pushing for full ASIC mining, some only ask for ngu
It's a confusing topic based on a one-off idea from Luke Parker. I don't think he talked about it in the Monero Talk episode either.

>if we don't incentivize more vendors on accepting it by paying more in XMR I don't see more widespread acceptance. If some customer came up to me and said 'I wanna pay with this coin you never saw before' I'd laugh at him but if some other business owner told me how much more sales he has because he's the only one accepting XMR that'd definitely make me do some research on it.
I don't disagree. I do think that we've hit a wall in this regard. It's still too hard for businesses to accept XMR because the biggest crypto payment processors don't work with XMR, and there's not that many ways around this except:
-Build one that works with XMR
-incentivize current ones to accept XMR
Neither of these necessarily require ngu if outgoing view keys satisfy the reporting requirements for businesses (I think they will) but I can't see it hurting the cause, especially since the community is probably going to have to pay for both of these out of pocket anyway.

>It's not just about my mindset, it's about the community's mindset and how others will see it.
I'm not dumb enough to try and change the community's mindset on moonfags, and I don't see us becoming the stereotypical moonfags even if it XMR were to teleport to $100k.
But if we're not going to entice a bunch of moonfags to buy the coin, then we should just be the moonfags. Temporarily. Once the block reward is at a competitive level (7400 is the ideal goal but I'll settle for 870ish) Then the community can go right back to building out the circular economy and throwing moonfags off of rooftops.
And don't tell me we can't just turn it off; It's not like the community hasn't made campaigns to buy as much XMR as possible.

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>>60878734
Oh, you can spend. You just can't sell and you have to make sure your 'nero stack gets bigger over time. Otherwise, we will spend some 'neros to send men wearing ski masks to you. They will make sure your 'neros get burned for the good of the network's security.

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Bakecel OP here! See how easy it was, retards? Just start your own threads and jerk each other off about hoarding, ASICs, PoS, commie devs, how filthy rich you'll soon be, whatever, to your heart's content.

In fact, I'm even going to link to your big beautiful containment thread from the XMR General myself to make sure you receive ALL the bullish NGU traffic and keep things nice 'n comfy for us productivity fetishists.

Look forward to seeing how all this unfettered talking about "we need NGU" will actually result in a timely NGU. Work your magic, boys! Only you can save Monero!