Watching gold go up made me think a lot about why that happens. Ultimately gold is not intrinsically valuable, it's way less useful than many other metals and natural resources, and not rare at all. People even pile into gold mining stocks when gold gets hot, which is even worse because they are operationally tricky businesses often subject to rapid declines, but people treat those as simply leveraged gold buying.It's an emotional bet driven only by a historical context that gold at one point in time was money. Even hundreds of years after that fact we still emotionally tie gold to being a form of money and may never leave that state. We self fulfill the loop of its value. It's completely socially created. Trying economical times -> people buy gold with the belief that's a hedge -> Gold prices go up -> People see gold prices going up and pile on -> Suddenly now it was a good hedge.Bitcoin, I understand now, is also a socially constructed investment. It has no real fundamental value at this point (we have way higher performant cryptos) but because it has been socially constructed as the "king" it remains such and likely will for a very long time. Collective psychology leaning into a bunch of socially constructed narratives is what gives Bitcoin its value, and gold is proof that this can last for a very long time. It legitimately does not matter that ETH, LINK, SOL, etc. are far more useful and used. Bitcoin already won.
Gold and silver are money because they are the most difficult commodities to inflate. Gold has a natural growth rate of around 2% per year which ties in pretty closely with the natural rate of population growth which is why it kept prices relatively flat for hundreds of years. The scarcity doesn't make gold valuable, it's the stability of it. It doesn't just come out of 2 mines in Russia and South Africa where political instability can cut off the supply. And it's not the easiest metal to mine. It doesn't deteriorate and it's highly divisible as metals go. It's almost like it was designed to be money.
>>61034417>gold is not intrinsically valuableOP is a retarded niggerignore everything he posts
The difficulty in inflating gold also seems to inspire the desire to do so by competitors who love to spam articles all over news media about how asteroid mining, or scientific alchemy will inflate the gold supply to worthlessness. It's been happening for decades and nothing ever comes out of it.
>>61034417>Even hundreds of years after that factgold was money less than 50 years ago. Your parents probably lived when gold was used as money.
>>61034664>>61034683Fine but that argument makes it no better than pokemon cards.>>61034707Yea I was really referencing more gold coins vs. the gold standard to portray the idea of "progress" away from gold as money as something that has been occurring for a while.
>>61034417>i finally get itExcept you're dead wrong?
>>61034785Nintendo and counterfeiters can both easily inflate the supply of Pokemon cards.
>>61034417Yes, the market is inherently clownish. Congrats on finally getting it.
>>61034835In a vacuum, sure. In a vacuum gold suppliers can also easily mine more gold. It's more complicated than that, though.How about land? Why isn't land a better hedge? Supply is way more predictable, and there is a finite amount. Why don't people turn to buying land in trying economic times?
>>61034864>hurr hurr why people dont buy land instead of goldstop shitting up the board with questions that have been answered 1000 times, you retarded monkey
>>61034417>intrinsically valuablenothing is intrinsically valuable, dumbfuckall value is dependent on supply/demand, which is the OPPOSITE of the word INTRINSIC
>>61034876If you can't answer the question, that's ok, anon. But you don't need to be commenting, either. Maybe watch the smarter people in the room discuss and learn something.
>>61034885you literally claimed Gold isnt valueable, you retarded brown fuck
>>61034881Food is intrinsically valuable to humans because it is required to survive. Electricity is intrinsically valuable because modern society requires it for many reasons. Gold is not required for anything. Intrinsic means essential. Gold is simply non-essential. Stop being silly.
>>61034893I claimed it's not intrinsically valuable. That it is not needed for anything. I claimed it is valuable as a social construct. Read. Stop talking and listen. I bet you have this same problem in conversations as well.
>>61034417congrats anon you discovered the concept of "network effect".wait till you get astounded by "blockchain", "encryption", and "hard money". as a zoomer who's been aware of Bitcoin since 2015, the fact that most people are only now getting to where we were in 2017 is crazy
>>61034916you fuckign lying nigger>>61034930stop bumping his retarded thread
>>61034907Humans need an abstract store of value / medium of exchange / unit of economic measurement, that is fungible with a limited supply and doesnt degrade
>>61034907It is inherently valuable for electronics and other applications where corrosion resistance and good thermal/electrical conductivity are important, but it's nowhere near enough to justify the meme-driven price.
>>61034944its valueable in jewerly as welland every fuckign central bank on earth is hoarding ityou people are the dumbest motherfuckers on earth
>>61034864France actually tried land as money in the 1800s after the French Revolution. They assigned notes called "assignats" to the land's value. They hyperinflated the assignat currency in about 5 years or less.
>>61034938OOOOHHHHHHHH IM GONNA BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMP
>>61034953>every fuckign central bank on earth is hoarding itNot because of its practical value. Stop being such a retard and admit that it's only valuable because enough people believe it is - a self-fulfilling prophecy. Could as well believe in any other rare metal.
>>61034417midwit take
>>61034969ay yes, try selling jewelry made from cooperits cheap and you will become richjust do itdelusional fuck
>>61034969There is no better rare metal. Not even any better commodity as money.
>>61034969People "believing" stuff is incredibly powerful. Ideologies, religions, borders and economies are all shit that only exists because we believe it, yet they are the things that dictate history. We believe in gold for >5000 years, so good luck supplanting that story with another random material.
>>61034995It's not a matter of belief. It was arrived at by thousands of currencies failing. Yet it always comes back to gold because of the stable nature of it.
Gold was universally valued around the world for thousands of years because it:1. Never tarnishes and rots. An eternal metal.2. Is very soft and easy to melt and manipulate with simple tools. You can't do pic related with most metals3. It looks great4. Is still relatively rarer than most metals
>ETH, LINK, SOL, etc. are far more useful they arent
>>61034417The real issue is the mint.There are no gold coins with the king's face on them. Therefor gold is worthless.
>>61034664Gold is the original Proof of Work.
>>61034980>idiot uses a circular argument "gold is better because it costs more because it's better">>61034989Ok, why are platinum and palladium are inferior?>>61034995Not arguing that, but it's not the topic of discussion.
>>61035163where is the circular argumentgo on, sell copper jewelryyoure brilliantyoure going to be rich
>>61035050Gold and silver being "useful" for other applications does not make them money. I roll my eyes every time someone says gold is used in wiring or how silver is used in batteries. Hoopty damn doo.
>>61035163Platinum and palladium are inferior because they don't have a stable supply. They come out of very few mines, so it would be very easy to manipulate. Scarcity doesn't mean valuable. It has to be in a sweet spot of not too scarce, and not too plentiful. Stability is what matters.
>>61035206Well, maybe that's because there's no demand that would justify more extensive mining and exploration of new mines? So again, it comes down to a worldwide implicit agreement on what's valuable.
>>61034944Right, the amount of gold we use for electronics does not nearly justify the price of gold. If we simply stopped mining gold there are functional replacements (though I know none quite as good) or we could likely come up with a man-made replacement that equals the properties.>>61035174Anon you're just proving how dumb you are over and over again. I keep telling you to shut up and listen to the bigger brains but you really can't help yourself. How about jewelry made out of Dodo bird eggs, wouldn't that be worth more than jewelry made out of gold? You're acting like gold is the most valuable type of jewelry and it's not even fucking close. Put a single rare gemstone in a copper pendant and it'll be worth 10x what the same pendant in gold without the gem is. You can find ancient jewelry made from fucking sticks and feathers worth more than ANY gold jewelry piece on the planet today. Can you please just stop talking, it's better for everyone including you. Thank you.
>>61034417>gold is not intrinsically valuableit has about 10% of use outside of the monetary premium (electronics, etc)if you talk about it as money, correct>bitcoin has no real fundamental value at this point (we have way higher performant cryptos)performance is meaningless if it isn't the most secured, even the most secured crypto can be attacked, so it's kind of a winner takes all market, that is bitcoin currentlysome people use bitcoin as a timestamping database, it's a usebut the big use is money, which has value fundamentally as a systembitcoin is getting monetized as that by the market>ETH, LINK, SOLthe only use of crypto is money, and only the best money prevails : winner takes all>>61034864>landland is not money, but it has value, it's property. thing is, property isn't a store of value, money is. property is something you want for use, production or pleasure or wealth, but not for storing value intrinsically>>61034907>Intrinsicit just means in itselfnothing is Intrinsically valuable (you can have too much food, and you don't value air in itself because it's basically free because of how abundant it is)you can say something is intrinsically useful, but use doesn't always equal valuable (as in "I want some to become or stay wealthy"). wealth is more than this, it's also the ability to protect yourself and have power, money is the best tool for that
>>61035317yes, go on buy your girflriend jewelry made out of dodo birdsyoure absolutely briulliantand then you buy her copper jewelryshe will love you, for the dumbfuck you areIm sure of it
>>61034417>Bitcoin already wonFar from it. Multiple states including my own are creating central banks that use gold and silver on market price and issue a debit card to pay for everyday transactions. I don't want an electronic pos coin that takes 3 years to buy grocercies. It's retarded and impratical. Now massive banks and some governments such as Russia are stocking up on PMs anticipating the fall of the us dollar. You're a complete tard if you believe bitcoin or any crypto will be the common persons currency.
>>61035343so what's the unit in which people are paying? this is not gold. and why are we in this situation with astronomical debt and a fiat system? ah yes exactly because of what you're describing.your thesis is just illogical and retarded unless you're a central banker issuing fake credits backed by non auditable shiny rocks.
>>61035369Because Richard Nixon got rid of the Gold standard. How dull are you?I don't care, you can continue to be a poor fag
>>61035369There's an economic principle called Gresham's Law that says bad money will drive out money. When the state issues money that people realize is worse than good money, people will spend the bad money first and hoard the good money until the bad money is no longer recognized.
>>61035332You're playing a lot of semantics games, useful and valuable can be described as synonyms (and are shown as such in any modern thesaurus). I will also say ETH, SOL, LINK and many other cryptos can serve as money better than BTC (they have all the same properties and then some with the ability to be easily processed into smart contracts). Bitcoin actually does not make good money for many reasons. This is why the "digital gold" narrative started - marketing gimmick by those in power when the realized it isn't sound money, but can be a better social construct of value than gold.
>>61035385so we're in this situation just because some man signed some paper? nice money you got thereI don't hate on gold people, I have sympathy for them, that's why I try to open your eyes on the future, which involves bitcoin and not gold, you people don't deserve to be poor, but you will be if you all in gold
>>61035408have you already ordered your copper jewelry?
>>61035411noone will buy your bitcoin bagstry harder
>>61035428
>>61034864>In a vacuum gold suppliers can also easily mine more goldBut it cannot be faked, that's the key. People can try to fake gold, and do fake it, but anyone with half a brain can easily tell what is real gold and fake. Especially with today's testing technology that is widely available.Land is not money. They are not the same thing. Gold is money because gold has a finite amount, cannot reasonably be faked to any non-negligible degree, is universally accepted as valuable through all countries since the dawn of civilization, and is divisible down to fractions of a milligram. Though this is usually why they adopted a bimetallic currency of Gold and Silver because counting flakes of gold became troublesome.You cannot carry around land in your pocket, and spend land for goods and services in any reasonable capacity.Retards misconstrue the purpose of Gold, and by extension Silver, and scream about how "WELL I MADE MORE MONEY OFF THIS SO GOLD REALLY SUCKS BALLS" when no one has ever claimed that Gold and Silver are the greatest investments in the history of mankind and if you put $100 into it today, it'll be $5,000 in 30 seconds. If your goal is to invest money to make money, do not invest in gold. You will not make an exorbitant amount of money in a short period of time.Think of Gold and Silver as a savings account. You want something safe, stable, secure, easy to liquidate. Many people today are trusting cryptocurrencies with that, and they're not horrible investments. The only real thing metals have over crypto is that they're physical, tangible, and they have literal thousands of years of recognition.The only reasonable criticism of Crypto is that it's not universally accepted in every corner of the globe as money just yet, and does not have anywhere near the history. Will Bitcoin replace money in 100 years? Will it be around in 100 years? Maybe, sure. Maybe not. But Gold will be.
>>61035408>You're playing a lot of semantics gameswhat I said is true thoughsomething useful isn't always valuable (see my example about food or air)it depends on the individual hence "value is subjective">I will also say ETH, SOL, LINK and many other cryptos can serve as money better than BTCthey cannot because they are way less secure (see my previous post)>Bitcoin actually does not make good money for many reasonsI would bet this isn't true, haven't seen better money
>>61034417Good thoughts anon. Metal endures all types of degredation and retains its rarity. There is a factor which people neglect to mention. Gold and silver can be melted and stamped with an image.The image represents dominion. Having your image stamped on the most primitive version of money confirms your earthly authority.The metal combined with the image forms the basis of a feudal-type civil contract:"Use my money and you become mine to abuse/protect."Thinking that money is created by a dogpile which turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy is only half the idea.The second half of the idea is the raw power/protection via bullion which is guaranteed by societies that gravitate to civilization.
>>61035428well bitcoin doesn't need to be bought to gain value, if no one sells then no one will buy, then those people would work for bitcoin
>>61035452none of the promises of bitcoin have become truenoone uses it even Tesla sold most of their bitcoinitcoin going up is gambling it has nothing to do with the propaganda they tell anyone
>>61034417>It legitimately does not matter that ETH, LINK, SOL, etc. are far more useful and used. Bitcoin already won.Just shut the fuck up you smarmy zoomer broke faggot
>>61035460Like I said, they are synonyms. They mean the same thing. Air is valuable, air is useful. Food is useful, food is valuable.Security has value up to a certain point but the difference in security between ETH and BTC does not make one a better form of exchange than the other, it's minimal. There is a reason all of the banks are building on ETH, not BTC.What have you bought with your BTC lately? By nature the Bitcoin blockchain can not handle transactions en masse. This is why lightning was introduced, which can handle small tx but not large ones.
>>61035458Gold will be as cheap as aluminum in a hundred years.
>>61035501so, you admit Bitcoin is agiant hoaxthats a start anonyour mental illness is healing
>>61035482A storage of value is a use case. If that doesn’t apply to bitcoin, then nobody uses gold either.
>>61034417> not intrinsically valuable> not rare at all> way less useful op is retard.
>>61035514the "value" that fluctuates several k on any given daylol
>>61035507Why and how?We'll find a mountain of gold on an asteroid and bring it back to earth and somehow that will be as cheap as aluminum which is the second most abundant solid element on earth?
>>61035533Aluminum used to be the most valuable metal, then it became easier to extract.>We'll find a mountain of gold on an asteroid and bring it back to earthThat, or stripping a few pesky protons from lead. Either way, we need gold for electronics and people don’t want to pay storage of value prices for it.
>>61035530Show me someone that bought bitcoin and lost money over several years of holding it. I’ll wait.
>>61035501sell me food after I've eaten too much. what price will I pay ? zero. so in this situation food is not valuable.wait until I'm starving, food is valuable to me.value is subjective and fluctuates. price is not the same thing as value. it can have a price, but value is always subjective.>Security has value up to a certain point but the difference in security between ETH and BTC does not make one a better form of exchangeabsolutely wrong. eth is unsafe and will fail at the worst possible moment if it was monetized as money the way bitcoin is. this is another rabbit hole that can be very deep, but the conclusion is the one I'm telling>What have you bought with your BTC latelybitcoin is monetized, I would be a bit stupid to spend and not hold on to it. gresham law applies.I sold things for bitcoins though (not face to face, on the internet). worked well.>This is why lightning was introduced, which can handle small tx but not large ones.correct
>>61035578Bitcoin was at 60k in 2021 and at 20k in 2023dont you know your own shitcoin?
>>61034417HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!You sure are dumb.
>>61035689Gold also drops in times of economic uncertainty and instability. I guess you don’t know gold either.
>>61035724Adding to this... How would one be able to access their crypto in a final stage totalitarian government. Imagine you're labeled a dissident, your entire internet life and connections under the heaviest of surveillance (Palantir). Crypto isn't legal tender, you HAVE to convert it into a useful currency first, that's where they'd block you. It would be much, much easier for them to shut off access to your crypto than it would be to go door-to-door confiscating your Gold and commodities. That's assuming a full on dictatorship wouldn't just be able to cut off the internet completely (see Afghanistan). Cash as much of a meme it is, you can stockpile outside of any monitoring and someone somewhere WILL accept it, but at that point you could substitute cash with gold and you see what I'm saying.tl;dr Crypto needs internet which is a chokepoint if SHTF.
>>61035825very good pointgovernment can turn of internet any time they like
>>61035771In the 2008 equity market crash, gold dropped about 25% which was lower than the average 40% crash that hit the rest of the market. That was the paper derivatives burning off to cover shorts in other parts of the market. Within a month or two, gold began a parabolic rise multiples higher while the rest of the market was still tanking.
>>61034417You are forgetting that BTC is the only one not centralized...
>>61035834Banks can turn off your credit cards and accounts too.African niggers are paying BTC using telephone line and no internet. It's painful but it can be done.
>>61035904You're adding the layer of converting your BTC into legal tender, which is another obstacle a government or institution can make more difficult.And the melanated gentlemen you're referring to have difficulties not because of a hostile power, but because of lack of infrastructure which is a different argument. Also, points out how a say a massive environmental disaster would make your crypto inaccessible. CME, Nuclear war, Global Pandemic, anything that would make getting internet service difficult.>>61035567By the time we have the tech to mine asteroids, or turn lead into gold, we'll already have a backdoor decryption process for Bitcoin. Its not mathematically impossible to break Bitcoin, just very hard. We'll have quantum computers before we'll have mining expeditions to asteroids.
ITT: OP finally gets it after 16 years and Bitcoin being at $122,500.Better late than never I guess, lmao
>>61035825>>61035834bitcoin specifically would prevent a world totalitarian government to happen, because either they will lack funds (no ability to print) or people with money, who earned money without fiat manipulation, will fund the correct amount of defense to calm down any morron trying to put up a totalitarian government, money is powerif you happen to live in one though, the only answer is to flee, you don't fix north korea, maybe the people here decided the wanted this society thoughinternet is a requirement for global commerce and more, and rely largement on free software, it will never be shut down globally>>61036050> we'll already have a backdoor decryption process for Bitcoinhave you ever noticed the update button you have on your software and systems? that means programs are updated over time. pretty neat don't you think?
>>61036363youre banking on civilization continuing as at it has for the last few decadesthe internet is basically a result of american global dominanceit can fade away just as easily
Gold is money you retarded debt slave
>>61034417BTC will never be gold. It's the pressure relief valve to suck up value during capital flight. PicrelGold is the ultimate shiny. It's value is intrinsic and I can prove it to you and anyone else. Simply go buy an oz at any coin store. You will not sell it till you don't have a choice. People that speak as you do are only announcing that they have never held real money. I'm not calling you poor you probably have more currency than I do. I'm only pointing out that if you had ever held an oz of gold you would not say it has no intrinsic value.
True, holding an ounce of gold does change a man in the way that a parent holding their newborn forever changes their outlook on children. The true order of the world became razor sharp to me and I was never the same after.
I began to understand the entire financial system was constructed in such a way to keep these metals from the people because they were so beloved by those who could acquire and hold them.
>>61036482crypto is the real digital cash providing the convenience that a physical rock doesn't
>>61036686>infinite amount of jeetcoins worth $0Crypto is an even worse form of money than FIAT, I guess it makes sense that it will eventually chase FIAT out of circulation as per cantillon.
>>61036395the internet isn't an american monopoly, the internet could work fine without the us, but I am banking on technology, a non losing bet, based notably on human history
>>61036482read this thread. value is subjective. and if gold was abundant, you wouldn't think that anymore about gold. you just assume gold is scarce and you find the item valuable, but that's your view.>>61036707gresham not cantillonbut nofiat is centrally controlled and has no supply cap, so your point is easily dismissed
>>61037024>im banking on human history continuingyour first mistake
Escorts are getting cheap. Recession incoming.
>>61037132learn to read maybe
>>61037308i prefer the car.
Top ten stupidest OPs I've seen on 4chan
troll thread, you mean watching the dollar go down vs gold?fiat currencies depreciate, gold has the same buying power. /thread
