Is it really so difficult to make undetectable fake Pokémon cards? The first (and most valuable) set was released in 1996/1999, how hard could it be?
The quantity of old ass cards that should be floating around is more or less known. A significant increase in quantity would be very obviously fake.
>>61198134OG Pokemon cards have 20 years of wear-and-tear on them, which is difficult to replicate on new prints.
>>61198162>implying they haven't sat in a plastic case in a fat neckbeard's binder for that time
>>61198134you would need an industrial machine and even then it has to be precisely perfect looking as the original because otherwise it will be noticed.
>>61198153>>61198162lmao biztards are so stupid its unreal. no one would look at a perfect replica and say "oh wow its missing some wear and tear!!" "wait there are only three hundred thousand where did this one come from!?"
>>61198187Even in a case, most 20 year old cards will show some aging.If there isn't any aging, IE like a new print would be, it's going to be highly scrutinized because the amount of perfect 10 20-year old cards is obscenely small.
why not just carbon date old cards so you know when they were created, then it would be impossible to pass off a fake
>>61198162You don't need to dump thousands of them into the market, some of these cards are worth hundreds of dollars.>>61198162If they were really well made, the fact that they don't show any signs of wear and tear would only make them more desirable. And making paper look old isn't that hard, just handle it carelessly or leave the cards in a box full of crickets.
>>61198247carbon dating is destructive>>61198249yes the old box-of-crickets method
>>61198134Pokemon cards were made with special ink and the age process is not possible to recreate with any chemical or soaking them in tea
>>61198134its basically impossible. many have tried but the real ones are so uniformly similar down to the holo pattern, texture, reflection ect its basically impossible. you would have to have access to their printing presses to make a "fake" card that is indistinguishable from a real one
>>61198197even then the print resolution, print process, materials, paper composition, color saturation, cut pattern, finished texture, any little slight deviation from just using their printing presses would be noticed by an expert. pokemon cards are basically super gold
>>61198260Yes but only with normal, economical methods. I could see a scintillator being developed suited for measuring cards without the need for chemical reduction. The challenge would be differentiating the C-14 contribution from other beta emitters with a relatively inefficient detector. And I have no idea what other radioisotopes might be present in Pokémon cards. But I suppose one could characterize it, and perhaps the spectrum would not be so crowded a subtraction could be possible.Needless to say it would not be economical.>>61198247There are two such ways to do the measurement.A) Measuring the specific activity of carbon-14, the ratio of radiocarbon to stable carbon per unit mass. It would involve precisely characterizing the average carbon mass of any card type interesting enough to be measured. It would be quicker to conduct this measurement after establishing the standard because you would only have to wait for an acceptable uncertainty target on one counting.B) Taking an extended measurement of the carbon-14 and fitting it to a decay curve. The rampant nuclear testing in the 50's and 60's approximately doubled the amount of C-14, known as the bomb pulse. This makes it much easier to date post-nuclear objects because they can be fit to this prominent curve that originated in a relatively short time frame.However, the Donphan in the room is the assumption that the carbon-containing input materials such as dyes and cardstock were at similar carbon equilibriums to begin with. Maybe one batch of cardstock was made with pulp from particularly old trees. Who could really know? Synthetic dyes have carbon inputs, from what? Petroleum products? That invalidates method A but maybe method B would still be valid.The cornerstone of radiocarbon dating is that plants respirate atmospheric CO2 and other organisms bioaccumulate the carbon from the food chain. Carbon from other sources may not be relevant to the atmospheric equilibrium and just be confounding.
>>61198134Don’t focus on counterfeiting cards like Charizard. Print something that’s in demand, not too complicated design-wise, and liquid. Ruby sapphire era might be good
>>61199107Good point. One wouldn't want to blunder by transmuting lead into gold with their neutron beam. That is likely to be noticed by governments.Rubies and sapphires are mostly aluminum and oxygen, not too complicated design-wise, yet are still in demand but have good liquidity.
As if there aren't rating agencies that do poor work. As if most retail can tell a good fake from a real one, especially when it's in a case. There's definitely fakes out there.
maybe you should just get a job instead
This is what prevents me from seriously investing in trading cards. You're really, REALLY, with a straight face, going to hinge your net worth on the fact that there's not some turboautist company in china that can create nearly undetectable replicas? It's stupid as fuck. It's even trivial as shit to PSA grade a real card, break open the case, take out the label, produce your own plastic slab and slap in a fake. The whole system seems retarded.
>>61198134Keep in mind that people have been arrested and sent to prison for this already.
>>61198197If they can forge medieval paintings, they certainly can forge mass printing modern slopEspecially since china exists where using industrial grade equipment for these purposes is fully condoned
>>61198134They tried the oldest cards (pre tcg release) and got caught because of printer meta data
>>61199107>>61199227I don't plan on doing this, just thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion.
Is there something in the 3rd worlder's brain that makes them like this? You have a limited amount of physical and mental energy everyday, and you squander it on scamming. Like, why don't they just spend the time and effort on actually trying to create real value, or positive sum transactions? I just can't wrap my ahead around putting this much effort into rusing people. You just know this post came from brown hands in some undeveloped slum.
>>61198204Yeah but you get like one shot at that. They eventually find out when the entire supply ends up at one location 10x over
you dont have to overthink it. nobody can do it because nobody can create a fake that perfectly feels the way the exact card stock looks and feel from their machines. nobody is replicating the exact holo sheet pattern on holos either.
>>61199488this was only possible because those prototype cards were newly discovered all at once. nobody had seen them before and their only claim to legitimacy was the reputation of the person who found and sold them, Takumi Akabane. many people doubted they were real prior to the reveal, and i believe some of them are, Akabane just mass printed a bunch of top of what he found after realizing the prototypes are literally just printer paper with designs on them
>>61198134I have an original charizard. Is it worth anything?
>>61202867Depends. Is it Base Set first edition? Base Set shadowless? Base Set Unlimited? Base Set 2? Legendary Collection? That's right, there are 5 variants of the original print. And this doesn't even include the Evolutions reprint, the Celebrations reprint, the Classic Collection reprint, or the Stormfront edition.No I'm not making this up.
>>61202923It’s base set non 1st edition. I would say from 1997 or 98. Not sure about the shadows and such. Maybe I’ll dig it up and take a picture if anyone is interested.
>>61201667Third world brains have no sense of empathy or apathy. It's the same way that one animal is eating another animal alive. It doesn't even view the food as another living creature and only cares about its own biological need to feed. South Americans, Africans, and Indians are not smart enough to build anything, only steal.
>>61203031I'm going to assume it's unlimited (shadowed) since shadowless is a lot more are. You're looking at something like roughly $300 ungraded depending on condition. If it's pristine, something like $500. Any single crease or scratch immediately kills the value though. And so do whitened corners on the back, but to a lesser extent. Just look at sold ebay listings and approximate the condition.
>>61198134If there were perfect fakes then you'd never know, unless they printed a million of themAnyways it's harder than you would think
>>61198162The ones that matter dont have any (PSA 10s) so thats irrelevant
>>61199249show me one
>>61198134>why cant they just print dollars, how hard could it be?
>>61202666There's some limit to the scale but come on you could pump out thousands of these, sell them at various meetups, dealers, no problem as long as you did it over time, just as couple at a time. Once you enlist a couple dozen confederates pretty easy to scale.
>>61198134It wouldn't work because you'll be a greedy faggot jew that'll make thousands of cards, ruining the golden goose, as your kind do.You won't be able to restrain yourself, you WILL have to print infinitely instead of sparingly, that is in your nature as a son of the god of this world.
>>61205116sounds just like investing in link
if you dont know anything about creating fakes what hope do you really have? just start a business OP
There is no financial incentive to create perfect fakes since it would crash the prices.
>>61205116>>61205808I don't plan on doing this, just thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion.>>61205023Search for 'superdollars'.
>>61206579so the barrier to counterfeiting new cards completely from scratch is high, requires expensive manufacturing equipment, technical know-how and the market lacks liquidity to do it at scale but it doesn't make it entirely impossible for someone to do one time production run on someone elses existing legally licensed manufacturing equipment to print few full pages of the most rare cards to be unloaded over several years
Is this card worth anything, I'm a fat neckbeard who has kept his cards in a binder for 20+ years
>>61207043I don't think thats a 20 year old card
>>61207065Do you not see the 2003 date at the bottom or
Carbon date this
>>61207043Not one of the original Pokémon’s. Not nostalgic to me.
>>61207138Absolutely irrelevant, autistic and useless response, but here's your consolation (You)
>>61207043That card's actually pretty rare and with an extremely low POP, I would get it graded it looks like it's in great condition
>>61206788>>61206788You're looking at an upfront investment of tens of millions of dollars in setting up a near complete card printing factory using hardware that is several decades old and and if still in existence were owned by maybe one or two companies in the entire world. You have to source multiple inks, foils, glues, and papers and match them perfectly. You have no guarantee of success either you can be halfway through procurement and discover that you need to reverse engineer the foil and go through years of trying to figure it out. Just making sure the card smells right is a concern. Then if it does work out and you have perfect counterfeits you somehow have to move the cards onto the market without raising alarm bells to recuperate the investment over multiple years. The market will eventually crash as well since people will simply notice the influx of mint cards on the market. The enterprise will involve dozens of people since you need people to run and fix the machines and just run the factory. We're talking hiring staff ranging from janitors to actual engineers. All of these people will have to be paid. It's by far the dumbest kind of counterfeiting you can do. You're far better off just setting up the card printing company and just make modern pokemon card for Nintendo.
>>61207500you didn't actually address the scenario I described
>>61207629Any company attempting to reverse engineer these cards would face the same challenges as any other. Any company that could in theory overcome them and make perfect counterfeits is most likely already making cards for Nintendo. There is no financial incentive to alienate their customers and risk jail time. Its such a fucking retarded plan for anyone to try to carry out. It's literally like asking what if Ferrari decided to make fake vintage Lambos.
>>61207162Look up the value yourself then you neckbeard faggot. My speculation is that it isn’t worth anything because I’ve never even heard of that Pokémon and I was obsessed with Pokémon as a kid and knew all of the original 151. This isn’t one of them.
>>61207043https://www.pricecharting.com/game/pokemon-dragon/rayquaza-ex-97
>>61207908>>61207043this one goes for something between 100 bucks and 5k https://www.pricecharting.com/game/pokemon-dragon/rayquaza-ex-97
>>61207950Cool there you go neckbeard anon. Go sell your card and take your boyfriend to Applebees. You can even afford a few IPAs with your dinner.
>>61207857https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EroHtSzo7I
>>61208200Prototypes with few to no legitimate copies in circulation by which buyers could compare to and that aren't as complex in design as the actual 1st Edition Base Set foilless cards and the scammers still managed to fuck it up on a detail most people didnt even know to look for and still get exposed in about a year.
>>61208280>I Was Scammed | Unboxing The FAKE $10,000 Pokemon Cardshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLrioA5XHwk&t=3080
>>61209547Not exactly a sign of high quality forgery when someone instantly doubts the authenticity of the product on sight and can then proceed to go over multiple issues. The topic of the discussion isn't whether or not there are fakes out there the issue is entirely if there are any out there so good nobody can tell. Do you understand the difference?
>>61207629cause it's retarded and isn't going to happen. the effort and money required is not worth the squeeze. just do anything else (print real currencies) it's like having a lv100 legendary locksmith vault breaker on call to spray some WD-40 in your old doorknob.a more interesting counterfeit issue is signatures on cards.
>>61207908kek salty genwunnergo have fun with your rattatas and paras
>>61207908>>61207983Kek what an assblasted, autistic and absolutely seething subhuman retard. You are quite literally an extremely autistic turbovirgin incel faggot topkek
>>61203392I have one of these too but I'm too lazy to pull it out from the folio I put it in as a child nearly 30 years ago. I'll just hang onto it
>>61198134it's extremely easy. pokemon cards have 0 security features. If they can print fake money, fake passports, drivers licences etc that is impossible to tell from a real one, they can sure as hell print pokemon cards. And they do.Just look at the youtube videos about "how to spot fake cards". They list things like "look for spelling errors, or pixelated pictures." Bitch this isnt't 1996 anymore, chinese know by now how to write english correctly. It's basically impossible to tell a good fake from a real one. There are multiple factories in china doing nothing but printing fake pokemon cards, but you know that right?
