I just want an honest, no BS, no scam thread. Does anyone here actually make money day trading / options trading / futures trading? Full honesty here, I've basically made nothing. I've tried prop firms a few times and gotten a single payout but I think it was a fluke. Same with options trading, some short term wins but mostly losses.People always talk about mindset and psychology, but that is what I don't get and I think it's just guru nonsense. If you don't wanna over leverage, it ain't hard to just lock your account to only allow a certain small buy and sell size. My issue is strategy. Seems like everyone has a strategy online, but no one ever shows backtested results or even any meaningful results aside from an occasional screenshot saying "look how green I am."Everything I try to test or develop or backtest ends up being worse in the long run than just buying and holding some safe ETF. or it does pay out theoretically, but it's volatility and variance is just really awful; months of drawdown or even entire periods where it eats shit.I get it if someone here actually does make money and wouldn't wanna share their strategy. Especially if you've spent a lot of time working on it. but man, I am so tired of seeing gurus and fake people online sell their courses. I just wanna know if this endeavour is worth it or not.Or perhaps that is the truth: Day trading does not work, not because of a lack of strategy but because only the big players with the most money and the fastest data will win.
>>61842950i'm mostly profitable although took a giant hit last week. i did however keep some trading money separated so i could up my purchasing power in case something happens.i use a lot of leverage and i trade longer term, yes it is possible but you need probably 5 to 10 years of experience and you will never be fully comfortable.the only thing you can make sure is that you can live to see another day if your trading (subaccount) gets wiped out by keeping a buffer.with leverage i only need to put up a fraction of what i trade so there is technically a rather expensive stop loss when you trade on leverage which covers your whole subaccount.now, the way i actually trade or anything is top secret. it took me years of trading and hard lessons to figure out something which has a positive expectancy. yes, you hear those words a lot but without positive expectancy, you have nothing.there needs to be a reason why your strategy would work. relying only on technical analysis is not wise, you must combine both technical analysis and fundamentals to make any sense of the market + a bunch of screen time looking at charts.all the talk about psychology is mostly true but if you don't have a working strategy, no amount of psychology and coping mechanisms will help you.
>>61842950Personally I think it’s an exercise in futility for retail to day trade against enterprise quants and algos with more compute than your entire net worth. You will be front run and destroyed. Swing trading makes more sense if you must trade, but I would only swing trade pairs you understand deeply
>>61843015Do you use prop firms? or just trade entirely with your own capital. I've also never understood the concept of "looking at charts." Unless that's a catchall term for researching or developing a strategy, I don't get what it means. To me, just looking at charts is pointless. like looking at white noise. People who rely on that technical anaylsis like "Choch" or "Mss" or "Bos" are just fortune tellers to me. I've given up on trying to trade based on news or information because others will have beat me to that. I try to use volumetrics; if price has a history of stagnating around a certain area based on past price movement, it can be expected to stagnate again. Or if price has very little volume in a certain area, you can expect price to move quickly through that area. that's the gist of it.What I'm trying to say is that looking at a chart to me is pointless unless I am using something else in confluence. I don't like to draw lines and say "this is an ascending wedge" or stuff like that. it's too subjective, too vague. Not enough of a hard rule to backtest with.But with that being said, I don't get how people return 80% winrates. or 50% winrates but with huge RR's. Is it like that for you?
its very easy to get stuck in a "box" of thinking, like a rabbit hole what you expect a trading strategy might look like might be totally different from someone who actually makes money.most of what you hear about is bullshit or you just wouldn't hear about it.no one is going to publicize their golden goose even if its not golden, maybe its copper goose, people still keep that shit secret.a copper goose still gives valuable copper eggs, doesn't have to be golden.heck, most people don't even have a goose at all.
Clussy
>>61842950day trading is a meme. 95% of day traders lose money long term. You should leverage trade only if you're very confident in your trade AND in your entry. Then take profit gradually. I think i'm overall much better not using leverage, however there are some very specific situations where i could have used it very successfully. they key, in my opinion, is to understand that good trades are scarce so it's ok if you don't do a single trade for months. This way you might have a high success rate. I also think it's very good to leverage an asset you already own 1 : 1, because you have gained some instinctive understanding of the price action. Like litecoin right now is at a very strong historic support, but it might go lower for sure but it's a good accumulation / long zone
like in retrospect, shorting silver above 100 was an obvious very good risk / reward. even if you put a short every 10 $ and 2 go bust the last one would give you high multiplicator from 125 to 70. i agree it's very hard, that's why i leverage trade with 20$ max so far to see if i can be profitable.
>>61843057prop firms seem scammy as fuck.mostly they are used by americans as a proxy for high leverage since they are restricted on leverage unless they have some diploma or something.looking at charts at least for me has made me realize quite a few things.charts + watchlists. always monitor a watchlist, just as with charts, eventually they do give you insights in how the market works but this is obviously extremely vague but you just start to spot patterns which you didn't even expect to find. hard to spot them if you never look.i don't even think in terms of win rate. i prefer to think in terms of days.how many days do i need to get a profit.thats how i judge a strategy.all the bitchy stuff i no longer have to think about like rr, profit factor, sharpe, etc. which in the end do not really tell you much.the only important question is, can i rely on this to make money within 1 month or absolute max 2 months?if not, then its not good enough. it might be good for some but not for me.am i worried? yesdo i almost shit myself sometimes? yesis it easy? no, probably the hardest thing i do or did.is my strategy complete? as in, is it finished? never. pretty impossible. the market requires constant attention.the core idea stays the same but refinement or change (going back on a previous change or implementing new things as required) is needed quite often.i love this so much that i'm not counting the time or the money i lost in the past.
seriously, can someone explain why i would need a prop firm when i already have access to 20x leverage?i bet no one can
>>61842950>>61843057>>61843060what does clussy feel and smell like?
>>61843222candy
>>61842950To make money with CALL OPTIONS: You need to find something to go long on, like let's say oil right now... and instead of buying the common stock and holding it for 2 years, you could BUY CALL OPTIONS and hold those instead, if you can deal with the risk. Stop doing 0DTE, stop doing shorts and puts, stop doing crazy risky stuff. The only alternative to owning stock at this point, because of the absolutely absurd inflation we are all about to live through, is call options. Remember the risks, and don't forget to buy things THAT HAVE ACTUAL VALUE.
People who are consistently profitable spent several years no-lifing to get there, and they're not going to waste their time bragging to randos or try to sell you courses.
>>61843274options is something i have stayed clear of and i have always preferred futures.why? because options is like another layer of middle men that you decide to add to the list of guys that want to make money off of you.i dont know about you but i have enough layers of fuckery dealing with futures.also, look at those fucking spreads on those options, some options are so illiquid its just ridiculous. i bet the only guys making money off options are the option sellers.
>>61842950You can't look directly at the strategy or it disappears. I sometimes swing trade which is basically just taking profits and cucking myself out of bigger gains.
>>61843305The liquidity goes up if the company gets bigger and thus the number of shareholders, as well as the relative wealth of those shareholders goes up. At one point in time nobody wanted $100 Apple calls. Now that the company is $10,000+, those options have practically infinite value.
>>61843301>no-lifing to get therethis hits home.most of the stuff they can teach you at an average hedge fund or bank but there is no shortcut to massive screen-time
>>61842950>Does anyone here actually make money day trading / options trading / futures trading?Some will get lucky gambling and speculating. Most won't.>I get it if someone here actually does make money and wouldn't wanna share their strategy.Even if Warren Buffett wrote how the average person could consistently make money, the public wouldn't believe him or act on it.
>>61843431>At one point in time nobody wanted $100 Apple callssure but except the price you pay (which is a fair argument of course) whats the difference to buying the stock?it is surely cheaper from the get go but i'm sure its more complicated than that, no?tell us about some options pitfalls to prove you're not an options seller.
>>61843161prop firms def have rules that are intended to make most fail. but the thing is, if you have a valid strategy then you can make a lot of money off of them in theory. You'd spend a few hundred bucks on their accounts and net returns in the thousands. That's all assuming you have a working strategy. I am surprised that you say this: >no longer have to think about like rr, profit factor, sharpe, etc. which in the end do not really tell you muchThat's just completely false isnt it. if i have a 90% winrate but a super low RR, then I'd be losing more than Im making. knowing these values help shape risk management and other trading criteria. I've never seen anyone intentionally ignore these things outright. >>61843218if i have 300 dollars in my pocket, i'd need a 100% increase to double my money. but putting that into a prop firm, even a modest strategy with moderate returns could yield hundreds of dollars without needing extreme returns. the math on it makes sense, its just that most people dont have the one thing that is necessary: a good strategy>>61843222dunno, wish I did tho lol.>>61843274risk management is not my issue. It's the strategy. would you want to go long on oil? what's the reason for that? how sure are you that you will be right? what's the risk profile? >>61843301I get that, and its why I avoid every single guru and course seller. but I was just hoping I'd run into someone who actually knows their salt>>61843305This is also not entirely true. Options are more complex, but their potential returns are enormous. A call option can explode hundreds or thousands of % in value from a sharp move, while in futures you would get a fraction of that. Futures are simpler, but options are more complex and higher profit. Also, no one smart is trading super low liquidity option chains anyways. I don't know how much I value ur word anymore, a lot of odd takes here
>>61843383Sounds like hocus pocus. I knew a guy who claimed to make a lotta money trading, and he spoke like that. turned out he was a liar and as broke as anyone else lol. >>61843474He has written how the average person can consistently make money though. the dude has like 15+ books all preaching the same stuff. Safe and slow growing money is in ETF's over the long term. I'm talking about day trading which is riskier but has more potential growth.>>61843491anon I'm not sure u understand how options work. The whole point is to make an educated guess on the direction and magnitude of the move within a certain period of time. If you're right, a call option on Apple would yield so many more returns than just buying 100 shares due to the greeks.
>>61843474>average personthats your clue.on biz there are enough hungry autists to erode any edge you might give away and then you're left with nothing. there are thousands of people visiting here and most are desperate as fuck.if i go to the local bar and talk to some rando i can permit myself to talk about details if we ever talk about that sort of stuff and they are interested because i dont expect them to weaponize everything i say against me.
>>61843547I guess a biblical allusion was too obscure. I know he has. That's the joke. If you won't listen to Buffett, you won't listen to anyone else giving good advice."If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead"
>>61843547i mostly understand how options work but i dont do them.you have a strong ego and you are quick to jump to conclusions.i think you're in your late 20's. its ok. i might be wrong, whatever. i'm not much olderi dont care if you believe me or not. all i can say is, if you're cut for it, it gets easier with time and eventually you start making more than you lose. thats all and there are many ways to trade and there are ways that you probably never thought about. that are just not on your map of your understanding of trading.yes, there is more than indicators or fundamentals or futures or options, think meta. think outside of the box.
yeah I'm profitable and idc about telling people my "strategy", because I can tell you exactly how it works, but unless you know how and why, when, etc, it won't matterI catch "vibes" on the day in premarket, I call it "vibes" because it is certainly not a quantifiable measurement by any means, I just focus on a few power players and what institutions are doing in the morning, and then follow IXIC on the 1m on market open for verification of what's potentially happening. I catch a big wave of movement after it has already begun, and ride it out til I think it's over and then I sell. I don't take trades every day and I play "2 strikes is plenty, you're out" for lossesin my time doing this though, I'll give everyone some advice, one thing is certain, the market is being manipulated severely, and yeah this definitely can't go on forever, but if you can figure out how to profit from the scam game then do it and do it well, hedge funds won't punish you, nobody is out for your liquidity, they don't need it, nobody actually needs your liquidity, we are spawning numbers out of thin air and obfuscating it in layers of exchange, and that's what this is all about, it's not about going against the institutions, they aren't going against you or 'sniping' your stop losses, none of that is real, it's just a game, and they are playing it well, and they don't mind if you play the game either, just play it right
>>61843589his advice is good but its for getting rich very slow and steady. I have a small income, but I'll still put aside 50 bucks a month to follow his advice. something is better than nothing.>>61843652I don't say this because I have an ego, but you're asking a very basic question that anyone who understands options would be able to answer:>whats the difference to buying the stock>surely cheaper from the getgoboth of those questions are pretty basic, but because you ask them means you dont know about options. im not saying this to insult, I am just saying that if you don't know about options why comment on them?I've read a few books and watched interview, documentaries and spoken to a few former traders on wall street. information and data is king. with you saying you dont care about all of those factors is kind of insane. what if you start having bad days much more often than good days? without data, you wouldnt be able to tell if your strategy is starting to shift or not.and another thing you said which is not fully correct either.>>61843551>erode any edgeunless you're trading something super illiquid (which is not common at all in day trading), your edge won't be eroded.Let's say 1000 people view the thread you talk about your edge in. from those 1000 people, less than 10% will be able to actually implement and use it long term. lack of expertise, understanding, knowledge etc will filter out the others.even if all the remaining 100 people trade in the exact same way and put 100K into each trade, that's 10 million dollars of capital in a single direction. On an asset like NQ, ES, GC, etc (the common highly liquid assets) CME's own product page states their 240 billion dollars traded on NQ daily alone. that equals over 200 million dollars per minute.I don't trust your words anymore, because these are not some high level concepts. I'm not deeply educated and I know this stuff, how do u not if you make so much money?
>>61843768trend following is hard enough as it is and your style is based on your experience which is unique, there is a lot of feeling based on experience involved it seems which i respect. and that is impossible to just copy even if you describe as you did.for me its more complicated.the market i'm dealing in is probably much smaller, the type of strategy is not very well known and in general i just do not want to invite more potential competition to my little poker table. that is why i'm vague.also i've been traumatized enough by the market that i've become very paranoid to the point of superstition.
>>61842950It's literally just pure gambling there is no working "strategy" lmao. (unless you are a jew ofc)
>>61843834>both of those questions are pretty basic, but because you ask them means you dont know about options. lmao, it just means i'm asking "cui bono?"you're not getting it. if you looked at my trades you might think i'm day trading when i look at what i do, i'm swing trading and day trading. i'm trend following and i'm doing mean reversion. and everything is executed from my ugly python script.and who even said i trade what you assume i trade? yes i do trade some fairly low liquidity markets. not totally illiquid but they are not deep at all and are quite volatile.instead i adapt to the low liquidity through massive diversificationi'm born in crypto and i have always been in crypto. i'm the plebian trader, no one taught me much except some odd channels on youtube with 200 views per 1h video with almost no monetization potential. i'm not "educated" but i have tried plenty of things and have luckily found a place where it works out fairly well.all i know is i never made these whiny threads when i was learning. i didnt have time for that.i even made a pair of pine script threads here on /biz/ a few years ago when i felt i had time showing anons how a super simple moving average strat could look like on a backtest. just as an introduction to pine scriptback when my view of things was much simpler and i was not even profitable
>>61842950>Does anyone here actually make money day trading / options trading / futures trading?I've lost so much money perps trading in the past month. It's actually unbelievable, it's like the market moves specifically just to fuck my trades. I'd love to hear from successful people with tips
>>61843834and for whatever advantage you have in options like capped losses or whatever is often offset by the sellers who often have the upper hand.yes i know about box spreads where you can "borrow money", i know about condors and about butterflies and the different variations of those. then you have the fees, the spreads, the slippage much greater than in futures.so dont act like you just discovered something super important just because you know about options.its a game like any other and you play against people or the bots that they run.
>>61842950I d ok by beleive any threads discussing day trading in 4Chan. The 2001 FINRA rules make it impossible for plebs. Only professionals (that is, people who do it for a living) can be dayvtrders because of those rules. Specifically, to make more than 4 trades in a single week, you need at least $25,000 in equity in your margin account.
fuck you faggots, no one is reading shit except the same circle jerking bots, post some clussy or gtfo out
and futures also lacks liquidity in tradfi in many places. outside of the main index futures and some raw materials where the indices have probably the most liquidity, there is not much.company stock futures are deadcheese futures were closed i think like many other futures contracts, delisted.even if you have futures, the far-out month futures are often illiquid. lack of interest in near month / far month strategies maybe, can be for several reasons which i do not know
i bet clussy poops smell just as bad as real poops
>>61844003I never said anything about your trading. But the lack of knowledge around basic concepts for options and stocks is what confuses me. I've never met anyone make money from trading while lacking such basic knowledge. >>61843768>the market is being manipulatedthe stock market is so heavily regulated, what do you mean? just look at the SEC's litigation releases page. Every year they're handling hundreds of cases of market manipulation via financial documents, bribery, coercion, etc. Is there some shady shit going on? possibly, but it's not as rampant as people claim it to be.>>61843874Might as well be. I just wanna be right more often than not.>>61844018Idk how u trade or what markets u trade, but from the issues I've seen most novice traders have, it's usually been the same:-revenge trading-not following your strategy's rules-trading off impulse / emotion-increasing position size as u lose, aka monte carlo fallacy-not enough backtesting / strategy developmentAnd then there are the strategies that work perfectly in certain regimes. there was this specific breakout strategy that I was testing. throughout 2019-2021 it had a near 85% wr, but suddenly after 2021 and onwards it's winrate dumped to basically 50%.>>61844123you can day trade on cash accounts im pre sure>>61844180neat
>>61842950I am looking into order flow strategies personally. The path I am following is that I am currently studying various tape reading and order flow courses that I pirated from Yandex, which have some pretty good strategies. The next step will be to quantify them. I have pretty good programming and ML skills, so I know that I actually know what profitable trading strategies look like, I like my odds.It's very easy to fuck up daytrading, like if for example you are looking at support and resistance on a chart instead of volume clusters on the tape or the footprint chart, you'll essentially be trading random noise the entire time. There are some concepts that only come into play when you're analyzing the order flow for short term trading that don't apply for swing trading or longer term trading.My recommendation would be to pirate some courses from top prop firms like SMB or Axia and move from there. I am really enjoying the price ladder course from Axia, but only the 16 year old foundations course had anything on tape reading from SMB.
>>61844198cute stubble
