Discuss
>>61853905not really. you need to save for retirement and 401k is great because your gains compound on pre-tax income. you might need the money early, so you need to understand and plan for the backdoor routes like 72(t) withdrawals and roth conversion ladders.
>>61853905Not at all. But if you're 35 and bald and childless but have been maxing your 401k for 11 years instead of living and getting some pussy then you fucked up.
im sorry but if you still think this world order and the retirement funds that a part of it will still be here by the time millennials reach the retirement age, you have gone full goy mode
>>61853905in today's world, i think so. sure the company match is risk-free. but there's so many other ETF/div options out there that are far better suited for compounding gains
>>61853920a 401k is just a legal treatment. it's an investment portfolio under your custody managed by a company like fidelity or vanguard, no different from any other non-401k investment portfolio account.
>>61853920This. Your "retirement" should be btc
I only put in as much as my employer matches. I also max out my Roth IRA and I have about 6500 in index funds when I was playing around with Fidelity's autotrader so I keep all this for retirement. It's easy to think "fuck it I'm living for now" but there's no way I'm going to be one of those old people that has to work at Walmart when I'm 70 because I never saved anything. I also want to be able to pass a fortune on to my future children so they don't need to wageslave.
>>61853905no if you can't escape wagism through other means then this is your best bet to get some form of retirement one day.
>>61853936>I only put in as much as my employer matches. I also max out my Roth IRA the vast majority of people expect lower tax rates in retirement because they're no longer earning a regular income and their expenses generally decrease in retirement. you invest in 401k with pre-tax income, compound your gains on pre-tax income, and then pay tax at a later date at a lower rate. this is exactly why the common advice is to max out 401k before IRA.
>>61853908Do you think it’s better to do pre-tax or Roth contributions?
>>61853953see >>61853949
>>61853905It's risky because it locks away too much money that you could use when you get forced into early retirement at age 52. Brokerage accounts don't have the tax advantage of the 401k, but that's only a problem if you insist on micromanaging your account, if you just plunk your brokerage money into an index fund or two and leave it there then there's no significant penalty. Yes it was taxed when you earned that money originally, but it will be taxed at a significantly lower rate when you take it out (lowest cap gains tax rate in the US is 0%, for up to $96k/yr) and you can take it out whenever you need it instead of when the gov't says you're a good goy now and gives you permission.
>>61853949>people expect lower tax rates in retirementOnly until they learn about RMD's.
Only if your company is matching.
>>61853949Thanks. I actually have a 403b and a Roth 403b. Should I still max the 403b first and then the Roth 403b, vice versa, or what?
>>61853905Sort of. In my opinion? Is your adjusted income after deductions going to push your income past the $200,000 mark? Then max it out until you either get below 200k or until you hit that 24k limit.If you're a compulsive retard that can't save money and you spend whatever you get as soon as you get it? Then do 15% or else enjoy eating rat stew and living off rats and cat food when you retire.If you're smart enough to invest but too stupid to make more than $220k a year? Just do the match.
>>61853967RMD penalty is insane but i think you can avoid some of it with roth conversion? also the RMD minimum withdrawal isn't too unreasonable. $1M 401k balance @ 73 yields an RMD of $37k/year.
>>61853996>you can avoid some of it with roth conversionyou can, but once you do the math you realize you'd have been better off just investing that excess 401(k) money into a brokerage account in the first place. Both Roth and a brokerage account are post-tax, but Roth is completely tax free on withdrawal whereas a brokerage account is only tax-free on the first $96k of capital gains each year. On the other hand the Roth locks up your money until you're 59 1/2yo whereas the brokerage account is freely accessible at any time. It's a much closer call between the Roth and the brokerage account than people realize.
>>61853916If saving $25k a year would stop you from living and getting pussy then you've fucked up.
>>61853953both
>>61853905You will most likely die before 65 so yes its absolutely retarded
>>61854134idk who told you that retarded shit but like 80% of americans survive past age 65. you can calculate your statistical years remaining from your age here. https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/longevity.cgi
>>61854150He's a faggot or a troon, so it's true for him.
>>61853916Childless guys are more likely to get more pussy
>>61853905If you're under 30, it's pretty retarded. I don't think America will collapse in any of our lifetimes, but it is objectively getting worse. The government has already raised the retirement age recently, as things get worse they're going to keep raising it. Personally, I also don't like the idea of the government telling me when I can and cannot touch my money.
>>61854150>idk who told you that retarded shit but like 80% of americans survive past age 65For boomers, yeah.Millennials aren't making it to 65 dude, lol.
>>61854582The government already has its hand up your ass in 1000 different ways, why draw the line here. The age stipulation is the tradeoff for the tax advantage.
you have IRA money sitting there waiting it is difficult to go to a job some daysother days you wish you had a job
save up just enough where you will have full social security and government payouts. save too much and you get punished and you get taxed more. keep that extra stuff off the books saving is punished in USA, risk and gambling is rewarded. Epstein and friends laugh at the 401k goy as they make sure you never beat inflation.
>>61853916oh..phew, at least i'm only 34 years young
401k is most definitely a scam but there are ways to take advantage of it.>"""""free money""""">if you take it out at any point in the next 50 trillion years we will force you to pay penaltiesIt is basically a pyramid scheme that is dependent on future generations putting into the stock market at greater and greater rates, but you can bypass it. I just put in only what my employer matches and take it all out at the end of the year. It equates to essentially a 15% pay bump on the amount I put in even after all the penalties.Then I buy silver and gold with it.
>>61853905I'm afraid of credit cards because I can easily see myself getting into debt. I'd rather save money with memes like npc than touch any fucking debt, and seeing a bunch of friends and family members deep in debt doesn't help
>>61853916The truth hurts
>>61853953If you're a normal American, roth 401k. If you're a coastal urban nigger in a high bracket, traditional 401k.
>>61853916Delete this.
>>61854857you're fucking yourself up the ass and there's no way you're up 15% after the penalty
>>61853949>the vast majority of people expect lower tax rates in retirement because they're no longer earning a regular income and their expenses generally decrease in retirement.Yeah if you're living a cucked retirement. If you made it, you're living LARGE. You're making fuckloads more money in future years, those investments pile up and you're loaded and fucking ready to rip.ALSO what the fuck do you think tax brackets are going to be on the rich in 30, 40 years? Butt tons higher I say looking at history and our budgets
>>61854804This is the only post that matters. 401k and the stock market is gambling on shit tier invest stocks. You should check what some of these brokers have people buying just to pump the zombie companies bags before the reset.
>>61853949I’d argue it depends on your marginal tax rate in the current year more than anything. >Paying over 30%?>Traditional 401k>Paying under 25%?>Roth 401k>Between the two?>Do a mix of Roth and Traditional until you hit 30%You’ll want Roth, traditional, and taxable investments all as part of your portfolio. That way in retirement you can do tax planning to maximize your income. I’d be more apt to say your order should be>Contribute enough in 401k to get employer match>Max out Roth IRA>Max out 401k>Fund traditional brokerageThis is The Money Guy strategy and it works well. If you want to retire early you’ll need that brokerage account as a bridge, along with cash saved into a normal HYSA.
>>61855842>This is The Money Guy strategyYeah let's listen to blanket dave ramsey tier advice instead of crunching our own numbers. Roth 401ks are dumb and unless you're doing a catch up contribution, you're picking the wrong strategy. The only time you can objectively justify Roth 401k, is when somebodies income is so low they likely can't even afford to contribute, or you have MASSIVE deductions.
>>61854027You can buy and sell within a roth ira without generating a taxable event or worrying about short term gains tho
>>61853953Max out company match, then Roth, then 401k/traditional
>>61853905It's some of the dumbest goy shit imaginable. Yeah bro just lock your money away in the big jewish ponzi scheme wageslaving for 50 years tied to a country that is rapidly declining due to unchecked shitskin immigration, feminism, and endless federal reserve note printing funding your demographic replacement. Great fucking idea , if it goes well maybe you can live off a modest income when the best years of your life are far behind you and you are surrounded by mystery meat spics and niggers and then die of the billion carcinogens pumped into your food, air and water.You should be putting in enough to max out the MATCH and not a penny more, and only because that is free money. Every other dollar you earn should be used towards escaping wageslavery.
>>61853905Yes it's retarded unless you've already maxed out your HSA & IRA, own a house, and already have enough outside of retirement that you're willing to optimize locking away money for 3 decades in a less flexible fund for 15%>>61853953Put in Roth, you're company match will be in pretax so you get both, granting you flexibility.>>6185528015% is wrong. They should be up 55% to 68%Put in $5k RothCompany matches $5k pretaxWithdraw Roth (tax and penalty free): 5kWithdraw Pretax (22% fed income tax, 10% penalty, x% state tax (California the worst at 13%, average 5 to 8%, Florida the best at 0%)): $2,750 to $3,400Cut it in half if your company just gives 50%, but leaving company match on the table is retarded.
>>61855902This is also true in a 401(k). If you want to play wheeling-dealing stockbroker bigshot then a 401(k) or Roth are you playpens. With a brokerage account you want to toss your contributions into something you won't need to dick around with, like a S&P500 fund + Intl fund + bond fund, and just let them do their thing until you need them. But Roth contribution limits are pretty piddly, if you've got a decent job then you make too much to contribute to a Roth at all. And if you're making sufficiently little that you're eligible for a Roth then you probably aren't making enough money to need to worry about tax issues anyway.
>>61853905Maybe. But I see people every day who have 500k+ accounts and don’t even make 100k each year. Compounding growth is insane over the time span of decades- but it’s unclear if that trend will continue in the future. Things are different now- and US equities might see a mean reversion that takes decades to recover. But currency debasement might keep equities expensive at least until your retirement. Dont count only in your 401k for retirement, also invest in PMs, real estate, and DLTs (if you know what you’re doing).>>61853953If you are young, at the beginning of your career, and making little money: RothIf you are at the height of your career and currently in a high tax bracket: pre-tax>t. 401(k) financial advisor/administrator
>>61853920this Let the goyim deal in the real world.
>>61856920How did you get that job? I'm a neet but if I was to get a job, I was wondering what job I could get. Since I spend so much time on /biz/, something in finance makes sense. I don't have any degree in finance but I have a master's in mathematics and I have experience giving financial advice to bizrealis
>>61858308You need at least a PhD in math, sorry.
How do you take into account saving for a house when investing? I make enough to invest around ~35k a year as long as there aren’t too many emergencies. I max out my Roth and I 401k match and put the rest into a taxable brokerage account that I’m basically using as a savings account for a house down payment. I have no foreseeable plans to get a house but I know if the opportunity arises and I need a 20% down payment and enough to cover closing costs, etc. I’d need at 50-100k which would take me years to save up at a point I actually do want a house. I could use that money to instead max out my 401k but I’d be illiquid for years
