Today someone said he makes $125k a year and then another person said>what do you do to make $125k>that is a lot>are you in LA?>why are you lying?Then I said>150k is middle class>no offense, when others don’t believe others, it means they are poor or make lessThen he replied>150k is not middle class>60k-80k is middle classI said>$125k cannot afford a middle class lifestyle and most jobs paying $125k are in big cities and there is high cost of livingThen he starts lying and saying he is 13The conversation is just him seething someone makes $125k and arguing that 150k is not middle class. I tell him due to increased cost of living and wealth gap, even 1m is nothing and 10% of 50% of the consumption and 90% are not doing well. Why are poor people always seething?$125k isn’t even middle class. How poor do you guys that guy is? 40k? 70k?He was really defensive about $150k being middle class. Do poor people think they are middle class?This isn’t the first time this has happened.
>>61965964Middle class is self sufficient, it requires an income that can support a household, retirement, children, education(including college), stay at home wife (or) nanny, 2+ modern cars, insurance, 1-3 vacations/yr . I would say 125k-250k depending on area. Lower class normies think they are middle class, middle class is mostly dead. Upper class has excess income after meeting those needs. Lower class requires gov assistance(welfare, healthcare, public school, etc).
>>61965964>>$125k cannot afford a middle class lifestyle and most jobs paying $125k are in big cities and there is high cost of livingWhen people ssay middle class they mean they've got a wife and together they make about 140k or something and can easily afford a suburban house in areas within 2 hours of major cities, especially in southern and midwestern cities like Omaha and Dallas. Your idea of middle class is jetsetting around and banging sloots whenever you want.
>>61965995> 1-3 vacations/yr .1 vacation, maybe dude. 3? Lmao. I think middle class lifestyle now requires a lot higher income than what people think now. That wasn’t the first time someone got really defensive with “no, 60-80k is middle class.”Fucking annoying but good conversation I guess. The ignorance is annoying.
>>61966005This, if you have to work and are limited in terms of pussy to just some walled roastie you may as well kill yourself now
>>61965995> it requires an income that can support a household, retirement, children, education(including college), stay at home wife (or) nanny, 2+ modern cars, insurance, 1-3 vacations/yr .You just described middle class but with upper class income. lol. The wealth gap or cost of living must have gone up so much.
>>61965995Regular people don't get enough leave for 3 vacations
>>61965964I make that in az and would consider myself lower middle class as a single person. LA that's poor as fuck lmao.
>>61966005> Your idea of middle class is jetsetting around and banging sloots whenever you want.My idea of middle class involves a middle class lifestyle. Good house in good area is basic. 2 people making $140k is 70k per person. You are telling that idiot needed TWO people and he was larping as one? I hate poors so much. I could tell he was poor the moment he was like>you dont make $125k>that is a lotHe doesn’t make $140k if he thinks $125k is a lot, dumb ass.
>>61965964Wait what?Someone disagreed with you on the internet and you made a thread about it to try to convince strangers you're right?Or are you just trying to brag about how rich you pretend to be on 4chan?If you want to impress with your wealth why not show us your new truck or the deed to your house or something? Being 4chan if you really want to impress show us your wife and kids and house and truck
>>61965964I can't find the figure but i read that if you compare the average to median salaries of everyone in america there's an almost 50%.If you compare being middle class to what it was historically then it's obviously become more stratified, but you also forget the slow frog in boiling water movement of what it means to be a "nu-middle class" goy
>>61965995>it requires an income that can support a household, retirement, children, education(including college), stay at home wife (or) nanny, 2+ modern cars, insurance, 1-3 vacations/yrThat is not middle class.
>>61966044I never mentioned how much I make. The post was to say why people making $60k-80k are so defensive about being middle class when they are not. Also, his attitude to the guy making $125k was really full of seethe. He even said $125k is a lot. But when I tried to use stats on him, he just kept disagreeing while still wrong and proving how poor he is.
>>61965964Middle class, 1980s kid here, is above 50k but below 100k. You KNEW these kids because they didn't shop at K Mart or TJ Max or the Goodwill.
>>61966049> means to be a "nu-middle class" goyWell, according to multiple people I have spoken with, it is 60k to 80k. Therefore, $125k is upper class.
>>61966058Those crazy poors amirite?So what do you fellow rich people who are rich like I am enjoy doing?
>>61965995You described upper middle class if not upper class. No middle class family can afford a nanny
>>61966077Rich people can do anything. Anything rich people do is “a thing rich people do.”And focus on the topic in op btw
How many more times do you need to post this before this shit bait can be shelves
>>61966067Yeah, so TODAY, 60-80k is not middle class.
>>61966005Tie wages to gold, in 1970 making minimum wage you would be making the equivalent of over $100/hr today
>>61966091I'm making fun of you for pretending to be rich without showing any proofYou third world retard
One of my biggest pet peeves is when some retard online doesn’t understand cost of living differs based on location. Someone could talk about they’re living paycheck to paycheck making $70/year and a bunch of subhumans start talking about how that’s 50 years salary in their shithole country, which of course is never even named.
>>61966093What? This happened today.
>>61966076150k is basically what it takes to be "middle class" 30 years agoYou could say that's the new middle class, but then you have to remember that only like 4% of the population makes that so apparently only about 2% of the population are "middle class"
>>61966098I never said I was rich. Where in the op did I say I was rich. >>61966099Yeah, but high income jobs or higher income jobs are mainly in expensive areas.
>>61965964Do you know what middle class means? It means the median by range. 140k puts you in the top 15% of income earners across the entire U.S. Which is, by definition, not middle class. The middle class is roughly 30k-90k /yr. The middle class does not live in big cities. They live in rural areas. At 140k/yr you can buy a house around every 2 years in middle class areas where houses range around 250k.100k puts you at the tippy top of the middle class. The median income for not-marrier-single-filers is 60k. The 60k range is the middle class.
>>61966106K, so op was right.
>>61966114All you are saying is “middle class lifestyle” has decreased a lot these 50 years and they live like lower class then.
>>61966114Either the threshold income to be middle class goes up or the quality of life for middle class goes down. Both are similar.
>>61966114> The middle class is roughly 30k-90k /yr. The middle class does not live in big cities. They live in rural areasThat is not how this works at all. lol. Classes can live anywhere. Are you saying everyone in a city is upper class?
>>61966116yes>>61966122the "middle column" of the wealth hierarchy has like only 30% of the purchasing power they used to have, yes.
>>61966150Nice. So many retards outside of /biz/ and in normieland but I am surprised how many dummies are arguing with op. Pretty much this—>>>61966135
I don't understand why some people still entertain discussions about economy with poorfags
>>61965995you can do that on ~90k if you drop your standards just a little>children’s college is community or state school if they get a scholarship>”modern” cars are 8 year old nissans>vacations are a road trip to family or canping
>>61966096tie wages to blacked.com content and someone today is unimaginably rich because you can buy thousands of hours of bbc footage for dollars a month today WHEREAS it was very hard to come by prior to the 1970s
>>61966122The middle class has always lived in rural areas. >>61966135The threshold has increased. In 2010 the personal median income was 30k. Which meant the middle class was in that range. The median from 16 years ago became the bottom part of the entire middle class range.60k in 2010 made you upper class. Now upper class starts at around 105k~>>61966147Don't be stupid, there's no need to strawman.In general the middle class cannot afford to live in big cities. Their income simply does not allow for it.That doesn't mean zero median income people live in big cities, there are ways to reduce ones cost, living with room mates, for example. Or living out of your car, or living in a shoebox sizes apartment with a shared bathroom.But those people are living outside of their means. They're trying to be upper class on a middle class paycheck. Thus they think they system is flawed. But they're just stupid and financially illiterate.
>>61966159I prefer>Yes, you are middle class, but the middle class are poorfag wageslaves now.
>Now upper class starts at around 105k~
The average income is 70k, the median income is 35k
>>61966198What, there are definitely poor people making low wages and salaries in big cities. Big cities are expensive so even $60k isn’t much. Costs a premium to live in big cities. There is a “middle class” in big cities. The income threshold is just different from rural areas. The sub topic here is how the income ranges change. Also, higher paying jobs are more concentrated in big cities with more positions available.
>>61966198> The middle class has always lived in rural areasThat’s not how this works lol. You can be middle class somewhere and upper class somewhere else. The main topic here is cost of living and job availabilities. Thats why even if someone moves, they stay the same class.
>>61966198Middle income ≠ middle class.
None of you know how bad things really are.>Upper middle class lifestyle starts at 300k>Middle class lifestyle starts at 150k>The average income is 70k>The median income is 35kEveryone is poor except like 4% of the population.There is only rich and poor now. you can cope and say "oh I'm in the top 20%!" or even funnier "the top 50%!" but you are still a poorfag.
Whole thread is aids. Why do you guys argue over shit like this
>>61966254Because it actually has people discussing their own opinions?
>>61966254This is a really good biz topic. Wtf you talking about?>>619662494% huh.
>>61966249this> median income is 35k> everyone is poor"$100k is a lot of money" not since 2010
>>61966262You're a bunch of idiots that probably have never been to America and obviously are poor afNone of you has mentioned the only thing that matters hereI don't think you even realize it
>>61966227https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672NMedian income is 45k. Average is around 55-60k.Median income was around 35k in 2010.You have to use personal income not household income. >>61966229That's exactly my point. Big cities are expensive, so a middle class income doesn't get you much of anything. Which is precisely why middle class people don't tend to live in big cities. A middle class person in a big city is poor, they can't even afford rent. AKA they're living outside of their means.The middle class of a big city is an entirely different population than the middle class of a country. But then the middle class of two big cities is also different. >>61966239That's why you don't use specific populations. You use the general population to determine what is and isn't middle class. The middle class of the united states is the median income range of the united states. The middle class of a city is a pointless and frankly useless metric outside of that city.
>>61966276Go back to reddeet
>>61966284No you're much funnierAre you from India or just some retard from the trailer park?
>>61966282> A middle class person in a big city is poor, they can't even afford rent. AKA they're living outside of their means.Shit, so most people and redditors are literally living outside their means. What happens if they all move out the city though? Cost of living increases elsewhere?
>>61966289I am from India but my family owns many apartments and we are solidly very upper class. How much you make shovelling shit?
>>61966295>so most people and redditors are literally living outside their meansGetting warmerYou fucking tards don't understand the middle class lives on credit because you are poor and have never been to America
>>61966282>Median income is 45k. Average is around 55-60k.this is skewed number, though because it includes all these no-count waste-of-space niggers who dont belong in society. These <50k is dead end poverty territory.
>>61966282> The middle class of the united states is the median income range of the united states.It is still 60k-ish and isn much. Even bloomberg said the bottom 70% has no savings.
>>61966297KekWhy do you care what constitutes middle-class in a country you don't occupy?
>>61966299>it includes all these no-count waste-of-space niggers who dont belong in society.FRED"Employed full time: Median earnings: Wage and salary workers: 16 years and over"to get an accurate picture is to get the median earnings of those between the ages of 30-60
>>61966084they could in the 2000s
>>61966315Middle class don’t have nannies. lmao
>>61966321They could easily trade one vehicle for a nanny. It's a matter of priorities. In the US nannies are for bad parents
>>61966321You are lower class bro, quit coping. Middle class is an economic unit, its defined by outcome, not a percentage of the population or median income retard.
>>61966321I should clarify I'm using nanny interchangeably with babysitter which is what plenty of middle class families have used. My friend had one because he had a single working mom.
>>61966295Yes, a lot of people are living outside of their means. They want to have an upper class lifestyle on a middle class income, so they're poor.They believe living a middle class lifestyle makes them poor. It's like people who come into a little bit of money and then blow it on dumb shit so they look rich then complain because they don't have money.>>61966299People on welfare are the poor people. Their income falls well below the median.Sub-50k is solid money in a lot of places. It's enough to buy a car and a house and have savings. Just not in big cities. That's not enough to even afford rent in a lot of big cities. But big cities make up the smallest portion of land. Where I live average rent is around 1100-1300. A mortgage is around 1800. That's easily doable with 50k/year. If I go out of town a bit, rent drops to like 800 and mortgages are around 1300. Very easily doable on 50k a year.
>>61966333What?
>>61966303Izzat farming threadAbandon
>>61966340Income still doesn't matterIn the US plenty of millionaires fall below the poverty line and lots of poor people have hundreds of thousands in credit
>>61966345The middle class can be 90% or the population or 5% of the population. Just means a fully self sufficient, net tax positive, contributing offspring to the economy.
>>61966347I like the part where he's upper class- from indiahe doesn't understand upper class in india is trailer trash in the US.or maybe he does understand and that's why he's so defensive
>>61966349That makes absolutely no sense. The poverty line is 15k in the US. Someone making a million is 66 times over the poverty line.
>>61966333All you are saying is the middle class you are describing needs upper class income. lol. Very intelligent. lol.
>>61966357So middle class is top 70 to 80% of Americans because bottom 70% has no savings.
>>61966364yes you're fucking tards don't count net worth you only think about earningsyou don't count credit you only think of earningsyou don't even count differing priorities, you only count earningsyou're cartoon characters. Flat. Fully retarded.you think a millionaire is someone that makes a million dollars.
>>61966357Middle class cannot be 5% of the population. That can be the poor class or it can be the rich class. But it cannot be the middle class.The middle class is the median income. It's the range of income within the top of the bell curve. AKA the median -1d and +1d. 66% of the population.That is THE DEFINITION of middle class. They are the middle of the population. The largest portion of the population.
>>61966381lol yes it can, what do you think happened in Venezuela/Argentina/etc. damn you pajeets are so retarded.
>>61966381>That is THE DEFINITION of middle class.>he thinks there's only one definition
>>61966393There shouldnt be many
>>61966393It’s the pajeet mindset to associate income with class when they still operate on the caste system. 3rd world syndrome.
>>61966380>Someone makes >15k a year>But owns a house worth $1mYes, that makes sense. About as much sense as a fish piloting an aircraft carrier and bombing Iran with nukes made of squid ink.There are probably less than 0.00001% of people in that situation. Maybe even zero.Unless they're holding assets that generate income, like dividends, or a stock portfolio. But, then they're above the 15k line because they have income. >>61966393Yeah. That's the definition. The singular definition. But the middle class can vary from location to location. The middle class of a city is different than the middle class of the country side.But how they're measured remains the same. Smartass.
>>61966402yes but it makes me think they CAN'T understand america because here income isn't even the most important aspect of class.in fact here we do everything possible to LOWER our income if we're rich$0 is the ideal salary for a rich man
>>61966406There are too many retards here too lol
>>61966406>There are probably less than 0.00001% of people in that situation. Maybe even zero.you realize most homeowners are retired making less than $25kthey own real estate worth millions and still qualify for welfare.>The singular definition.idiot
>>61966417You’re such s fucking retard. Bring up indians out of nowhere.
>>61966430>You’re such s fucking retard. Bring up indians out of nowhere.>>61966297>I am from Indiayou fucking idiot
>>61966429>you realize most homeowners are retired making less than $25k> they own real estate worth millions and still qualify for welfare.People living in 1m home dont have 25k income. Stop larping. Unless the 1m is in a big city so it is ghetto. But that doesn’t happen in big cities.
>>61965964Middle class is made up bullshit to keep people in the grinder. You're either someone that trades their labor/time for an income or you're the ownership class that extorts the workers by charging rents.
>>61966442>Indian who admits he's from india and then denies he's from india five minutes later tries to explain the economics of a country he's never been to
>>61966442People with houses that increased to 1m when they were “poor areas” before probably still make more than 25k. Even 30 years ago. Youre clearly some rural or suburban fag.
>>61966455how much does SSI pay?you don't know because you've never been to the UShow about you stop arguing shit you don't understand?
>>61966462Dumb fuck loser.
>>61966469bloody benchod bastert
>>61966418Yeah, specifically people that don't know what middle class means, and think it can mean whatever they want it to mean.>>61966429For starters, no. Most homeowners are not retired. They are actively working still.Two, retirement generally counts as income.Three, if they own multiple houses, they are generally ineligible for welfare.Four, some states make you ineligible if your house is over a certain value.Five, you cannot afford property taxes on a million dollar house with welfare.Six, you cannot even use SNAP to pay your property taxes or your utilities.Seven, Medicade/Medicare do not help you pay your house/utilities Eight, you're a retard. And have no idea what you're talking about, or what welfare even is.
>>61965964i'm unemployed and poor
>>61966483all you need is a mortgage and you automatically qualify for all that stuffas to how much income you need to pay taxes on a million dollar home, I know for a fact it's less than SSI pays, particularly since most people pay it in escrowthese are things you imagine you know about because you are on welfarebut you don't know about because you don't own a home
>>61966496> these are things you imagine you know about because you are on welfare>but you don't know about because you don't own a homeLMAO
>get into debates with strangers about financial matters neither one of them will ever experiencelol. this board.
>>61966100Just stop dog. You've posted this probably 15 times now. You're cancerous
>>61966496No, you need to meet maximum income requirements and not own a certain value of assets to qualify for most welfare. The average property tax rate is 1%. Which means you're paying 10k a year in property tax. Maximum SSI is 994/mo. That means oyu have 2k left over after your property taxes to pay for utilities. And 2k won't even cover the average light bill, let alone anything else.Again, you are wrong.
>>61966584Again, if you have a mortgage the value of the asset doesn't countso if I have a million dollar home and I borrow $100k against it I can qualify for welfareLEAP will pay your utilitiesmost retirees are married so they get two (2) SSI checks even if one of them diesyou seem to know very little about retiring in the US. Which is odd since boomers are almost all retired now, and we own most of the houses.
>>61966610You can take out the 100k loan, but you have to spend it in one month. Because loans are a countable asset for the purposes of SSI. If you're over $2k in countable assets you're ineligible for SSI and most other welfare programs. If you end the month with more than 2k you lose your benefits. And SSDI, which is what most boomers get, is not welfare. You need to get your info straight. SSDI is the retirement insurance that retirees get.You're too uninformed.
>>61966584Probably the part you SHOULD be concerned about is:If you own a homeAnd you collect welfare over the age of 52And you dieAnd your home doesn't go to a disabled person,the state will take your home and sell it to recoup the money spent on your welfareso all you kids counting on inheriting your parents or grandparents houses should probably make sure Mom and Dad aren't collecting welfare or that house is gone. The government is going to sell it.oddly enough this is not widely known among retirees and I've never once seen it mentioned on 4chan. Presumably the younger generations are going to be blindsided expecting an inheritance their parents accidentally spent.
>>61966686>Because loans are a countable asset for the purposes of SSI. If you're over $2k in countable assets you're ineligible for SSI and most other welfare programs. If you end the month with more than 2k you lose your benefits.all truehow long would it take you to spend $100k?and it's just a number I made up. There's no limit on the size of the loanI can take out a $5k loan if I want, it still counts>And SSDI, which is what most boomers get, is not welfareI didn't say it was. That was your mistake not mineI said boomers can qualify for welfare AND SSI isn't enough to disqualify you.
>>61966584Just shut up
>>61966717he knows WAY more than you do about this
>>61966725I know enough that “rich people” don’t have $15k income.
>>61966742I didn't say "rich"I said millionairesin the US most millionaires are poor or middle class. We have a whole term for it.house poor
>>61966742we also try to keep our income around zero for tax reasonsthis is a strategy we call "Buy Borrow Die."we take out loans to live on instead of earning income. Because loans are tax exempt while income is taxed.however you need enough income to service the loan. Which is not muchbut you aren't familiar with this so you can never understand wealth in the US. It's mostly a matter of assets and credit, not income.
>>61966767Okay. That’s enough. Cool. Now please leave my thread.
>>61966836it's my thread nowyou leave
>>61966693>the state will take your home and sell it to recoup the money spent on your welfareThat really only applies to Medicaid. Also they can't take the house if the decedent has a spouse, or a child under 21.You can also just avoid probate. I know this cause this is exactly what's happening with my grandfather, he just died and there's a dispute between the two halves of the family so it's going into probate.>>61966709A long time.I also didn't say you said SSDI. I said that most boomers are generally on SSDI, not SSI. >>61966725I know about it cause I'm also on SSI.>>61966751>house poorHouse poor is upper class. Car poor is middle class. Poor poor is lower class.
>>61965964If you weren't part of the top 10% in 2025, you're lower class
>>61966927>House poor is upper class.is it though?I know millionaires that can't afford to fly to mexico.meanwhile I make poverty wages but can borrow $20k for a vacation any time I want.neither of us has $1000 on hand for an emergencyWhen you get into using statistics to try to predict how people live it's almost always wrong. How many people you know got a boat but can't afford to take it anywhere? I've seen that a bit. People who look rich or middle class but are actually on the verge of bankruptcy.and I've seen people who look broke but are actually quite wealthy. it's not clear cut. it's almost never clear cut.
>>61966985>>61967002> it's not clear cut. it's almost never clear cut.It is. 10% of Americans have 1m. Of that 10%, 2.5% have 1m excluding a home. And you can work from there.
>>61967012and most of those 2.5% hold equity, not cash.and those 10% almost all have spouses who own what they own making it 20%your numbers don't paint a real picture. No single metric applies across the entire board.
>>61967037Just be quiet. This is all you need to know. >>>>61967012
>>61967037>and those 10% almost all have spouses who own what they own making it 20%Wtf? The 10% includes every American already.
>>61967064>The 10% includes every American already.wives don't count their husband's assets as their own until the divorce starts>Approximately 18% of U.S. households, or roughly 23.7 million households, had a net worth of at least $1 million as of the 2022 Federal Reserve survey. >18%>2022I guarantee there's more millionaire households now than there were in 2022
>>6196707710% includes men and girls and husbands and wives. The 10% in the statistics are individuals. We aren’t talking households. We are talking about individuals.
>>61967002Yeah, it is.And just because someone is upper class doesn't mean they can afford to have vacations. Just because someone is on the verge of bankruptcy doesn't change anything. It just means they're very bad with money. You can make a million dollars a month and blow it all on useless frivolous stuff while being in debt up to your eyeballs on the verge of bankruptcy. You're still upper class. Classes are not about lifestyles. You can be poor and live an upper class lifestyle and be giga in debt and constantly have to file for bankruptcy. I know, I've seen it.Likewise, you can be upper class and live a super minimalist lifestyle like a poor person. Once you take a step back and stop seeing classes as lifestyles, and see the classes as economic positions on a social hierarchy of income or wealth, the lines stop blurring. 95/100 times someone who owns a million dollar house is upper class. The other 5 are people who gamed the system.
>>61967088>10% includes men and girls and husbands and wivesthe statistic I provided very simply proves it doesn'thow do you explain there being twice as many millionaire households as there are millionaires?and what do you suppose happens to those assets if the household splits up?
>>61966364>The poverty line is 15k in the US.homeless bums make more than 15k in the US
>>61967097>Classes are not about lifestyles.maybe not in your country I guess.in the US class is entirely about lifestyle.
>>61967097> You can be poor and live an upper class lifestyle and be giga in debt Not really, there is a limit to how much debt you can take out.
>>61967111the highest credit card my income allows me is $5kbut I can get 15 different cards with a $5k limit no problem because other companies are too greedy to see you're maxed out and refuse you credit.
>>61967100Typically no, they don't. >>61967101I live in the US.Class is not about lifestyle. Like I said, someone who is extremely poor can live a upper class lifestyle. That doesn't mean they're upper class, it just means they're stupid.>>61967111Well, yeah eventually you hit the wall and have to go bankrupt. But then you start all over again and debtmaxx. I have family members who've done this. I know people who've gone bankrupt 4 or 5 times from that.
>>61967126>someone who is extremely poor can live a upper class lifestyleI would agree if it was a rare thingbut I would argue that over half of US adults are doing exactly that. Got the boat and the RV and the 4 wheelers and the dirt bikes and the mcmansion while living from paycheck to paycheck both parents working forever.
>>61967132All that means is that they're living outside of their means, or that they're not saving so they'll never progress financially. I know exactly what you mean, that's what all my friends my age do. Especially the ones who come from better off families. They get paid and blow their paychecks, always buying new big boy toys and shit, this week it's a 4 wheeler, next week it's a dirt bike, a month later both are in the garage and never touched again then a few months later they sell them for 1/3rd the price. Then it's a new boat, then it's a new gaming pc, etc. etc. But that doesn't change their financial class. It just makes them bad with money. If a mage uses a 2h sword and heavy armor, does that make him a warrior? No. It just makes him overburdened.
>>61967171The people in the upper part of the middle class are the ones who do that too. They try to live like they're rich, but keep themselves perpetually stuck in the middle class.
>>61967171I like the way you look at it because it's very simple.I just don't think most people are using the words that way. I think we have a massive middle class that's broke as fuck, mortgaged to the eyeballs, makes relatively little money, and will never have much cashand I think that's probably always been true ever since the 1950's and the golden age of the american middle class.if anything our middle class is much easier to enter now because loose credit lets everyone play whether they can afford it or not.also the punishment for being bad with money is basically nothing. Declare bankruptcy, you can probably keep half a million in assets as you walk out of court. More if someone in your house is disabled.
>>61967181Doesnt mean anyone owns anything though
How do people survive in the U.S on 30k - 40k?Fucks with my mind, you would expect french revolution tier riots, but people just keep on keeping oncrazy to think the late 20 - mid 30 person working at walmart or mcdonalds is actually getting by.
>>61965964I'm at 0 per year. How poor am I guys?
>>61967181I like to keep things simple. Simple things are useful for building more complex structures. Complex things, not so much. Too many intricate moving parts that are prone to break.I know that most people don't use the terms that way, but that doesn't change the meanings of the terms themselves. If everyone calls an apple an orange, does it become one? You see?I also agree, a large portion of the middle class is broke as fuck and over leveraged debtmaxxers. Mostly because they're making really bad choices, trying to buy houses they have no business owning. Opening new lines of credit to pay off their old lines of credit while using their paychecks to buy shit they won't use and don't need, while simultaneously having 15 recurring subscriptions to different services they haven't used in over a year.Then complaining that they don't have any money at the end of the month.I think this is a problem that has always, and will always exist. And honestly, I think this is why it's treated as a sin in many religions to charge interest on loans. Because people get trapped in these cycles of spending. I also think entering the the middle class is significantly easier than it used to be, but for a different reason. There's so many high paying jobs these days. Get some 22/hr WFH job while living in the sticks and you're made for life if you're smart. There's just so much money in the system, inflation has made life so easy for people who have brains.
>>61967215I only make 62k but live with my dad in his huge house, and I invest 90 percent of my paycheck. And I have an easy job. Imagine making 150k in some stressful work and you can only vest a small fraction
>>61965964>middle class$150k is upper class.
>>61966005>they mean they've got a wife and together they make about 140ka wife and kids. a couple making 140k without kids can live like they're even wealthier.
>>61967232$150k is middle class.
>>61967262150k and above is less than 10% of the population. This would be like saying 120IQ is the average.you're delulu.
Underclass: $0 - whatever you have to make for it to be more than what they give you via welfare (at least through the formal economy)Lower class: That amount - $100kMiddle class: $100k-$500kUpper class: $500k-$5MOwnership class: wealth + power togetherBased on what those amounts of money can buy you.
>>61967280Read the thread, dip shit.
>>61967290Read up my asshole, retard.
>>61967290cool story poorfag>you were a mistake and you're already replaced by AI
>>61965964>>61965995LOL
>>61967295>>61967301150k is middle class. Now leave. /thread. Everyone else, thanks for the discussion.
>>61965964>Why are poor people always seething?Because we’re broke nigga now hurry up and deflect those boulders, Pee-Lon
>>61965964$150k HOUSEHOLD income is middle class. Comfortably. But middle class in 2025 has a household with two working adults, often a primary income earner making $80k-$90k a year with a partner making $60k-$70k a year.An individual making $150k a year is wealthy. This isn't really up for debate. The statistics are easy to find.With $150k a year you can comfortably support a family with a stay at home mom, which in 2025 means you are wealthy. But more likely you are also living in a dual income household where your partner is making anywhere from $70k to $150k (high income earners are more likely to be married to other high income earners), meaning your household income is $220k to $300k. When your household is bringing in that much it also means you are gonna quickly start accruing income generating assets, meaning overtime your income is only gonna get larger even if your salary remains the same, an obvious sign that you are beyond the typical 'middle class'. The reality that as a single person on $150k you can only afford what is a typical middle class lifestyle for a dual income household is besides the point. The very fact that you can afford this on a single income means you are considered wealthy. That is just the economic reality today.
>>61967568Cool. The average person is so poor.
>>61967568> With $150k a year you can comfortably support a family with a stay at home momFuck that shit. I aint letting a girl not work. lmao.
>>61967666Fitting digits
>>61965995nope, that's upper class. cope
>>61965964lmao this faggot really lost an argument and came crying to biz
>>61966297>I am from India
I make $125k before taxes right now. Is that a lot? I always assumed I was a little underpaid since I don't ask for raises or job hop.
>>61967731Gross? It's alright. Net? Bretti gud. Equivalent to making 62k twenty years ago. High end of lower middle class.
>>61965995I do all that on 40k thoCOL is the only thing that matters
>>61967215If you own a home with no debt and you live in an area with low COL, you can save 25-35% of your income for anything you want. You can easily do this on blue collar income.Cityniggers are the true poors.
>>61968004City people that can afford it are not poor,ruralfag
>>61968004Lemme guess, your home cost 50k
>>61967992You’re fucking retarded.
>>61966297Man it's you back again. You've always said previously you're a NEET and your brother is rich and pays for your life. But it can't be much of a life if you waste it baiting people on biz who weren't born at the finish line.
>>61968164What are you talking about?
>>61965964ocpd namenigger thread.
>>61968189Don't play dumb, you didn't earn your wealth
>>61965964imagine 125k in yuropoor is like boss level
>>61968199> you didn't earn your wealthThings poor people say.
>>61968164> who weren't born at the finish line.Everyone, when you add their parents and grandparents, had 100 years to make. All the high iq people made it
>>61968202But the jobs are even rarer and your work load higher
Bloomberg literally right now said>middle income are starting to join the lower income in feeling the pain of rising prices.
Class is not derived from monthly income level. If you think it is, that's a giveaway that you're working class.Middle class people own their home outright, no debts, and don't have to worry about work. IE if they lose their job, they could support themselves for at least a full year without incurring a hit to their standard of living, or getting into turmoil.Middle class people can work fun jobs for low income, and still live middle class lives, because they have their home paid off. Higher middle class will own stocks that provide a stable income for themselves as well as their home. If you have to work for a living, you are working class. Regardless of what your takehome is. If not going to work means you lose your home, you're definitely not middle class.
>too stupid to understand cost of livingSorry for the people conversing with you
>>61967708They're doing that a lot latelyApparently 4chins is personalstreetshitterblog centralThe really sad thing is the post volume this bait generates. Look at these post numbers!sage for off topic shit thread
>>61968302MIDDLE CLASS, the bottom 70%, has no savings. >>61969189The topic is good for debating. Everyone has their own definition of middle class. Fuck off.
>>61968302>Middle class people own their home outright, no debts, and don't have to worry about work.seems like a pretty naive view of creditin my experience wealthy people use credit as much or more than the less rich. Going into debt is probably necessary to becoming wealthy, and even after you're rich it's still better to risk the bank's money than your own for most stuff. also again, Buy Borrow Die implies using debt to avoid taxes. And it's nearly universalIt is fun to read how angery 4chan users get about debt though. I've never met a wealthy person that won't borrow money. But 4chan thinks having debt is somehow bad, or a sign of failure.
>>61969976You’re an old pos living in some ruralfag area.
>>61969890>overly taxonomizing petty subclasses is good debateWew lad>>61970001>good debateNo matter how hard life gets for me, at least I'll never be this clueless, classless, or crude. God damn it feels good having a soul. I'm taking all of your izzat and going home. Come at me ((You) can't, and (You) shan't)
>>61966005>2 hours of major cities, especially in southern and midwestern cities like OmahaYou can live under 30 min from Omaha for cheap in 100% white towns. >t. bought a house 30 min from 72nd street and I-80 on $24/hour in 2018
>>61970145> You can live under 30 min from Omaha for cheap in 100% white towns.aka lower class areas.
>>61970145The entire discussion was about how people that struggle in the big city should move out the city. Then here you are moving out the city because you cannot afford it. Do people have 0 self awareness?
>>61967097> 95/100 times someone who owns a million dollar house is upper class.Not in big cities or any city that is well known. 1m would be considered ghetto and low class.
>>61970185To add to thisA large fraction of homeowners are also self employed business ownersIt's really easy to own a half million dollar house and a half million dollar business and be a working class millionaire
>>61970313I think most millionaires are working class. 1/10 have 1m. Of that 10%, 2.5% have 1m excluding a home. So 99% of Americans are working class.
>>61965964i speed raced my income from about $80k - $170k in 5 years. never felt so rich. last 5 years i'm barely up $20k. definitely below inflation. but job is comfy lazy wfh - so i stick with it. am i wrong?
>>61970369What? up 20k?
>>61966076My household income is around 100k and i live in a relatively low cost of living area and i cant afford a house 3 bedroom 2 bathroom 1500+ sqft house. If you cant afford a house you're not middle class and 25k extra sure as shit isnt going to jump you up 2 spots
>>61970415So you are saying $60-80k is not middle class. How come this topic is so polarizing and sparks this much debate? (read this thread) $150k is the new middle class.
>>61967122Just lie on your application i make less than 70k and have 9 credit cards the highest limit is nearly 20k. The issuers have no way to confirm your income so i just put 130k and raise it a bit every year
>>61970454To be middle class you need to marry and let your wife have a careerNeither idea is popular here
>>61970502Marriage is cucked in 2026. If you want kids, find a way without marrying. If you want female companionship, get a hooker for a few hours.
>>61970502A girl in a career = girl who went to college and spends 40 hours a week at work. Gross. Stay at home wife = bitch living for free. No.
>>61970454Thats the thing i dont consider myself middle class because i cant afford a house, but if i would just put another 10k over asking on one of the house i put an offer on 5 years ago when house values were still reasonable and interest rates were half current rate i would consider myself middle class. Middle class varies by too many factors to tie to a single number. I would also consider myself middle class if i was a full coiner
>>61970516>>61970523ExactlyMiddle class is out of reach for almost everyone your age because you're either unwilling or incapable of doing what needs done to get there.
>>61970557> Middle class varies by too many factors to tie to a single number. LMAO. THIS is why this topic gets so many replies. Middle class implies a lifestyle. Then you find out how much it costs. Simple.
>>61970564Shut up.
>>61970586Stupid bot programmed to respond to every comment
>>61965964The middle class are just rich people with poor financial sense.They finance like three vehicles, constantly buy new yard toys(mowers, blowers, fourwheelers, etc.) and stay in eternal debt slavery to up the debt slave score.
>>61967708at least its 4c content and not reposts from twitter
>>61965964Most Americans want to lump themselves in middle class when in reality they are working class people in denial. Marx might've had a lot of retarded ideas but his definitions of class make a lot more sense then vaguely defining lifestyles and their relation to income.Lumpenproles are nigs, broke NEETS, druggies and other welfare queens, proles are the majority of people who absolutely must labor in order to maintain their living standards long term, petit bourgeoisie have either enough capital that they can live on the profits generated or have a highly valuable skill set that one can largely dictate the course of their labor, but still must ultimately labor, and the bourgeoisie who have fuck you levels of money & power.
>>61970586Lmao mad
Nigger
>>61970586KWAB
>>61971594> Most Americans want to lump themselves in middle class when in reality they are working class people in denialMiddle class is working class though. The people making 60k only argued that they are middle class. Being working class or not is never mentioned.
>>61967215They live low class lives full of comforts. Better than peasants 100s years ago who has to farm and toil.
>>61971594>bourgeoisie who have fuck you levels of money & power.More like lazy parasites who were born into lazy larasitic bloodlines that control the government. That's the highest level of wealth. All should aim to be a lazy parasite. The only way to do that is to become a deranged sex addict. Then money will flow 24/7 and money ideas etc. >>61972540true.
>>61972601>All should aim to be a lazy parasite. Kill yourself kike
>>61972856>Kill yourself kikeI voted for this
>>61965995By that definition I'm upper class. But doesn't feel like it.
>>61965964I love reading these mercantilist disputes between Ameripoors.>$150k is middle class!!!1!!1>no you fucking subhuman nigger, for $150k you cannot even afford an apartment in a big city>it's fault of jews/trump/biden/obama/mexicans>$300k is middle class, not $150k!!!!!11!What really matters, is how much you can save. There's a person who earns $50k but lives with his parents and saves up $40k yearly. And there is a person who earns $100k but throws out his money on everything and barely saves up $10k. And who's the winner here? Work smart, not hard.
>>61974567Not really. Don’t give me that bullshit about someone saving 1k is more well off than someone with 150k income. Dumb ass. >>61973005>excess incomeYou are supposed to afford those things comfortably.
>>61974567> What really matters, is how much you can save. There's a person who earns $50k but lives with his parents and saves up $40k yearly. And there is a person who earns $100k but throws out his money on everything and barely saves up $10k. And who's the winner here? Work smart, not hard.You’re the retarded earning 50k huh lol
>>61974600I'm doing it quite comfortably. I have next to no expenses. I save around 80% of my income.
>>61974733You missed the point of the op. Making 150k vs 50k. Ignoring other dumb shit idiot anons like you pull out your ass.
>>61974774I'm not gonna say how much I earn, but you are right, I'm a dumb retard. GN anon.
>>61974793I don’t need to know anything specific bro. If you need a job, then its usually less than 400k.
>>61975034Close enough, consulting.
>>61975068Yeah. Most jobs cap out. Not sure why you were so defensive. My main topic was 50k and 150k. I was talking to some consulting guy in nyc and I told him I used to make 200k and now retired. And he got so angry and triggered. >you do NOT make 200k!!!!!And he said he works for high networth people. But if he did, why was 200k so surprising(it is because most income caps out and out of the general population, 200k is rarer). Thing is, most rich people know whats possible so to see him so defensive, he was probably busting his ass for his work. One thing I learned is well off people always believe others. Poor people almost always immediately reply with >no you dont>yeah and im elon musk >ur lying
"Class" is a Marxist term designed to make you hate people richer than yourself.The terminology falls apart with any examination. For example, a doctor making $500K per year is "working class" because he works, but is in the top 1% of incomes.If you want to communicate properly, just say high income, middle income, low income, etc.
>>61975263A doctor IS working class. There is working class and capitalist class.
>>61975270But a person earning $30K a year can put $3k into a dividend stock and start collecting "surplus value" which Marxists decry as capitalist theft. Is he a working class or capitalist class? What about a worker who slowly invests over 40 years until his dividends pay more than his wage, but he's still working?The terminology fails hard to communicate anything useful.
>>61965995If you can afford a nanny and three vacations a year you are upper class full stop. Most normies get two weeks a year tops, with some uncs capping out at four.
>>61975379Posts like yours dont really promote discussion and just shit flinging. You KNOW what capitalist class and working class is. Why you talking nonsense?> What about a worker who slowly invests over 40 years until his dividends pay more than his wage, but he's still working?Obviously after that, then you can start talking about the lifestyle his dividends can bring in.
>>61975379Marxists are ugly losers.
>>619755023 vacations. Yeah. Like over a month vacation kek. Normal bottom 90% or even 95% cannot afford this. And they face high gas prices, air tickets price increases and food inflation due to Iran War lmaoo
>>6196596460-80k was middle class before covid. Now it's working poor.
>>61975263Retard, class comes from ancient Rome.
>>61965995>support a household>retirement safe>3 kids>education & college done, kids will go there too>insurance>5 holidays a yearone car only and missing a stay at home wife since we both workstill have excess money.all this on 50k a year while she makes 40k.god i love being a euro"poor" lmao
>>61976584>5 holidays a yearLol. Doubt. Unless theyre cheap. Size of house? Neighborhood? City?Cost of living in city? What car?
>>61976584Or maybe vacations are not overseas. Like flying across the ocean.
>>61976584American properties are expensive if on valuable land. So is Europe if you live somewhere desirable.
>>61976633>>61976651>>61976676attic, basement, 3 bedrooms, kitchen/bathroom/living room and a study room.yard about the size of the house, wife grows plenty of stuff there for the fun of it and it does save some grocery bills in the end.car isnt fancy, just a volvo XC60, the city is båstad you can look it up if you want, its 100% white.but yeah paid sick leave too, union is strong here and my salary have yearly assured raises, life looking good.
>>61976695Not bad. Very middle class. 100% white. So…is it vhcol or mcol?
>>61976695Based my man.I recently moved into the german Eifel, roughly 690m2 property with 180m2 living space. House is about done, had to deal with shitty Internet Connection but Starlink rules. It's considerable "cheap" to build here because nobody wants to live on the countryside but countryside only means a 20 minute trip with the nearest train in a European countryExpecting our first kid in august so it will get lively in here. All of this on a 55k home-office job and her working in a close-by cosmetic surgery clinic. Maybe I can take the little one to his first trip to Ibiza somewhat next year, maybe 2 or 3 weeks at once - holiday planning is relaxed but if necessary I'm just gonna take some of that paid sick-leave right before my vacation - lol.What are they gonna do? Can't fire me - kek.
itt: many people who don't understand household income and personal income. it's usually calculated per household because usually couples live together and both work.middle class:low end household income: 55khigh end: 165kmedian: 85k in california: low end 67k, high end 200k, median 100k.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/much-money-makes-middle-class-120845381.html
>>61981065The entire thread was an argument on whether 60k is middle class or not. Your post just confirmed 60k is middle class. lol.
>>61981065Also, America median household income is 60k. 60k to 80k is also fine as a range.
>>61981175yeah but there really isn't to argue about, it's simple calculation: middle class = income ranging from two-thirds to twice a state/city/country median household income.
>>61981181>America median household income is 60kno, it's 84k
>>61965964The Cantillon Effect benefits those that wisely invest their capital asap. The more you have upfront the better prepared you are to offset inflationary pressures. Being debt-free with assets that generate capital is the goal.
>>61965964so you think you can just make up things?middleclass is calculated by income precentiles and in US middleclass household makes somewere between $25-60k a year.In some areas it can rise up to $100k, but in these areas you cant get employment unless you are good at higly paid skill.
>>61981927You need $150k to afford a middle class lifestyle. 60k is lower class life.
>>61981934No, middle class lifestyle is what can be afforded whit money made by given precentile.you can be too poor for food and still middleclass.
>>61966005If your wife is working full time to barely cover a mortgage, then you can't be middle classBoomers chased all industry out of our countries by demanding they pay what is 75$ an hour to manual laborers
>>61981947So by your definition, middle class people making 60-80k pretty much live like lower class.
100k is 60k from 20 years ago, which is middle class125k is higher than 100k, so you're middle class depending on expenses and how much you are lying/ delusional about your actual bottom line
