>>62182030>I love communism but I would never ever EVER leave my capialist country
>>62182030It depends what you mean, but imo managing an economy top-down is too hard.
>>62182030people aren't ants. Capitalism sucks but it better suits human nature. They want to own things, amass wealth, have a job which gives them social status over others within a hierarchy to feel validated. They do this under Communism as well, just behind closed doors. It forces them to live a lie.
>>62182030Its based on two impossible tenants>the end of human ingenuity>infinite resources
>>62182030Look at shithole Spain, that's how communism looks like. Spain needs to be nuked
>>62182053I'd rather live a comfortable life than be anally raped by reality. This is what you chuds don't understand. Truth is not inherently meaningful. Truth is meaningful when it serves us. And I'm sure as shit not fucking served by bezos and elon.
>>62182106You think you would live comfortably in a communist society?
>>62182132I'm definitely not comfortable in capitalism. So yeah, I'm willing to try another system.
>>62182030because we arent all equals
>>62182140china, nk, cubagive it a go
Communism is an attempt to make rich people deal in the real world. That's like making lions and lambs get along. Good luck.
>>62182030>failReal communism hasn't been tried yet
>>62182030because 99% of companies have thin profit marginsnot every fucking company is this orders of magnitude costs vs revenue that commies like to pretend as if every thing was like
>>62182053Yes. I love capitalism. The race is over, however, and the k shaped economy is in full swing. The bottom 90% lost.
>>62182106So you’re poor lol. No one doing well would rather have non-capitalism. >>62182140You and your parents and grandparents combined had 100 years or more to get rich. You guys failed. Obviously you don’t like being a loser.
>>62182140Have you thought about it as because you + your family lost the race?
>>62182140Have you honestly thought about why you’re not comfortable instead of blaming capitalism?
>>62182100I rather live in spain than america desu
>>62182030Because Capitalism was more efficient. Up until 2008, then it doesn't work anymore. Without fictitious Capital (money printing), Capital would already have collapsed.
Because it has a chance to create different competing factions & classes, which might all be corrupt but still, versus the large state blob of communism
>>62182390Only cause you’re poor
>>62182030>Why did communism fail?because stupid rich people from other countries kept making their cheap shit in China?because stupid rich people from Western Europe kept having food and all this nice shit that made people want to escape the Berlin Wall?Because US oil companies wanted their shit back and orange man wanted to make gas cheap in the late half of his second term?
>>62182047Yes, no one's explained how price discovery is supposed to take place under communism. I recall a story where the Russians were cribbing the prices from a neighboring capitalist eastern European country and someone asked them how they're supposed to do it if communism actually conquered the world and the response was kinda "durrr idk comrade".But on a more pragmatic level communism concentrates incredible amounts of power in the government, which naturally encourages corruption, especially combined with the level of poverty generally created.
>>62182030You mean other than the people who have pushed for and run every "communist" system being a bunch of corrupt dictatorial scumbags?The core failure of any socialist or communist system -- they're the same ideology, communism is just "post-state" socialism -- is that they have no feedback mechanism for setting prices in the face of scarcity.
>>62182053Reminder that soviet russia was officially not communist. But officially socialist. The communist party didn't achieve communist, and served as a vanguard to achieve communism, but never achieved it. Marx was also not socialist, but communist. Socialism in Marx era basically meant communism, not socialism. In the end of his life, Marx criticized socialism as being Capital reformism. The aim for Marx was to abolish Capital. Not to socialize it.
>>62182452>abolish capital Tell me he was born an ugly low value male without telling me lol
>>62182132I saw this documentary where a dude in communist Hungary made a living just by training his daughters to play chess. He kept them out of school and just made them train and study chess all day. Seems pretty comfy
>>62182140Thank God you have no power whatsoever.
>>62182487She hit the wall so hard
People like Thomas Sowell wrote multiple books explaining why. People have been explaining why for over a hundred years.
>>62182030Because working is gay.
People incorrectly deify the state and consider it to be a non corporate thing. It is another corporation. Communism makes the state the singular all powerful monopoly of everything in the country. Why that doesn't work should be clearly obvious to anyone with an IQ north of 90.Every fault you could ever throw at a corporation applies most acutely to the singular all powerful monopoly corporation of everything (the communist state).
>>62182030If capitalism has "won" then why does the usa need to steal pil from every other country in the middle east? Why do they keep sending cia agents to spin up colour revolutions every week? Just leave communists alone and live your life, why do capitalist countries which were built on the blood of the natives keep stealing from africa, south america, India, and the middle east? Why has lybia become a shithole right after gaddafi was killed by usa? The answer to your question is the set of questions above.
>Another /pol/ thread on bizIf you're a communist/socialist GTFO of biz.
>>62182030Because your image is a propaganda that does not represent the real world and people realized this.
>>62183561Are you implying middle east is communist? I seriously hope not.
>>62182442>>62182047Its also fun being trapped in a system where any innovation gets either trapped in army files, and you only get to make innovation if there is a competing western system to copy.Top down is fine for sprinting to force the economy to get afloat, with the 5 year and 10 year plans. We've seen enough Asian miracles to know it works out. But not after that.
>>62183559Bolshevism was state Capitalism. Engels anticipated something like this would happen in Anti-During. Also, reminder for the average american, and even for the dumb european, that soviet russia never defined itself as being communist. It was officially socialist. The aim of the russia communist party was to attain communism, a goal which was never achieved.
>>62183692Nobody but a Marxist really cares about the distinction between one -ism and another. It's all just insane totalitarian folly.
>>62182030Communism should allow a little bit of capitalism, as China has shown.
>>62182030>communism = powerful central government/stateyou mean utopic socialism that was supposed to reach communism as its final stage?why do anglos define it this way? if anything, governments are the ENEMIES of communists.>>62182047is that why capitalist governments don't need central banks?>>62183717>nobody but commies care about definitionsyeah, because definitions don't fit in your anti-commie propaganda.
>>62183813China is Socialist, not Communist. They'll never become Communist, because the final objective of Communism is the complete annihilation of the state/government and some kind of retarded anarchy where somehow there is one giant super labor union with union officials, but no state... Yes, communists are retarded.
>>62183561No one can or will refute this
>>62182030The communist leaders got killed by Stalin.So the reason communism failed is because it’s an overly idealistic ideology that wasn’t designed to survive in hostile real life environments.
>>62182317You sound demented
>>62182030because it's fucking retarded
>>62183982USA before ww1 went bankrupt.Central banks saved the fucking union.
>>62183982 There's no such thing as "anti-commie progaganda", just classical economics and history.
>>62182030Because the people who said everyone should share weren't sharing.
>>62185176Communism fails because of human nature - eventually those in power want to hoard wealth and exercise their power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it's not just about the leaders. Capitalism is a history of the wealthy and connected taking advantage of the poor unfairly but the second Timmy Faggot, you, feels he can take advantage of others and rise above them he will try to.The idea that communism absolutely requires terror and surveillance to implement goes back to the 19th century and is nothing new and without them ostensibly communist states just fall apart. It is a common argument in Russia that USSR collapsed because the leaders wanted it to - in the Soviet Union they could not flaunt their wealth like they do now
>>62182030Capitalism is more akin to what animals do, you hunt, you kill, you eat. The only problem with it is that too many people figured out ways to make it so others have to hunt and kill for you then you keep all the meat. More taxation, wealth caps, ect would fix this to stop people who game the system too well or achieve too much success.
Big brain coming through to let brainlets know that communism won. Communists won by denouncing communism. Behind the scenes they made all the necessary changes gradually through the twentieth century. The whole world order you live under is "communist". It's simple really, inflation equals communism. Start there.
>>62186178You''re not wrong, but basically everyone on this board understands that central banks are a parasitic entity that needs to die, and will die, soon.
>>62182030>wealth created by laborlolLabor has no inherent value at all.You can go into your backyard and move the same stone around your entire life and it will have been a gruelling life of daily labour, but you will have created literally zero value.
>>62183717Actually there's a big distinction, and between the two socialism is by far the worst.Communism: decentralized governance with no central state (I'm cutting out a lot of ancillary retardation here, but whatever)Socialism: all power is centralized into a microscopic elite ruling class.
>>62186433It's all just marxism. The end is an unattainable dream, and the means is tyranny. Seeing as the purpose of a system is what it does, marxism is tyranny.
>>62186495>the means is tyrannyYes.Marx himself described socialism (all power in the hands of a microscopic elite) as a necessary step towards communism.>The end is an unattainable dreamIt's attainable, but not when you first have to pass a stage where all power is in the hands of a microscopic elite (socialism).Right now AI and advanced robotics are on their way to making 99% of human jobs obsolete, which in turn will make essential good extremely cheap due to the removal of labor costs.
>>62186521AI and robotics further concentrate power to the elites. There's no utopia at the end of this rainbow. Not for us, anyway.
First item top of the list after every communist win: install a central bank.>nice, will the workers run this central bank?>I wouldn't worry about it, comradeIt's all the same transnational capital anon, the only way to a better world is getting your soul right and showing character where others fold to the ponzis.
>>62186880max IQ to use central banking as the basis for an argument against communism when literally every first world capitalist nation engages in central banking (to the detriment of citizen fiat slaves)?
>>62182030Why would it succeed? Humans are corrupt pieces of shit, you'd need a high-trust society where everyone has an IQ over 130 to maybe make communism work. Nevertheless smart people usually consider themselves too good to dig ditches, flip burgers and mine all day. Communism would require a slave class, which goes against its philosophy.
I'm a lefty faggot but even I know that true pure communism is unachievable with the world the way that it is. Doing business with your capitalist neighbours is unavoidable unless you think you can be 100% self sufficient, which again, in today's world, not possibleSocialism has some of the upsides of communism and less of the downsides of capitalism, and that's about as good as we can hope for, short of some completely world changing events
>>62186521>Marx himself described socialism (all power in the hands of a microscopic elite) as a necessary step towards communism.That's total bullshit. Stop spreading false information. Quote required from Marx saying that he viewed all power in the hands of a microscopic elite as a necessary step toward communist. Protip: you found find any, and confuse Marx with Lenin. I'll correct this nonsense. Marx viewed the dictatorship of the proletariat as a transitional phase between Capitalism and communism. The dictatorship of the proletariat is in no case power in the hand of a microscopic elite. The dictatorship of the proletariat is workers, together, united, deciding together the direction of their working conditions and of society.
>>62186919Your mistake is thinking anyone is "capitalist" today. They found a middle ground.
>>62186811>AI and robotics further concentrate power to the elites.And that's something else that is wrong. AI, datacenters, robotics, increase the organic composition of Capital. Thus it decrease the rate of profit. Decreasing rate of profit must be compensated by increasing mass, which saturate the market. In a saturated market, Capital cannot reproduce itself anymore.
>>62182047This. No matter how good your intentions are, a bunch of guys can’t predict everything. But whatever, scandies already came up with the best possible system, social democracy. Strong aspect of taking care of everyone while still keeping the system ”free” so that no single autist can rise to power and fuck everything up with retarded extremism from any side.
>>62187087>The dictatorship of the proletariat is in no case power in the hand of a microscopic elite.Marx and Engels used the word "dictatorship" in the ancient Roman sense, which also meant power in the hands of a microscopic elite (in Rome's case specifically, one single man).In Latin, "dictator" literally means "one who orders".>>62186811>AI and robotics further concentrate power to the elites.AI is currently one of the most competitive fields imaginable; every single major tech company, nation, ... is offering their own.It's so competitive that it's mostly provided for free.
>>62187203AI is being used to build out a worldwide panopticon and social credit system. The user facing products are "free" because the user IS the product. The data is going to be hoarded and used against the people. The value created by robots is going to accrue to the owners of the robots. 99% of the "value" invested in AI speculation will evaporate along with the existing debt ponzi financial system. You'll own nothing and be happy. >>62187105Actual gibberish.
>>62187270>The data is going to be hoarded and used against the people.How? If one AI provider is shown to be acting less than honestly, people simply switch to another.>The value created by robots is going to accrue to the owners of the robots.Pretty much everyone will own robots.
>>62187203>Marx and Engels used the word "dictatorship" in the ancient Roman sense, which also meant power in the hands of a microscopic elite And you continue with your bullshit. Chatbot leo definition of dictatorship of the proletariat: "Marx viewed this phase as a necessary step to dismantle the existing capitalist system and its class structures, ultimately leading to a classless, stateless society. The term "dictatorship" in this context refers to the rule of the majority class exercising political dominance, contrasting with what Marx termed the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie" under capitalism. He identified the Paris Commune of 1871 as a concrete historical example of this concept, characterized by universal suffrage, recallable delegates, and a popular militia."
>>62187270>The value created by robots is going to accrue to the owners of the robots. 99% of the "value" invested in AI speculation will evaporate along with the existing debt ponzi financial system. You'll own nothing and be happy.Yeah sure and what is a dialectical reversal.
>>62182030Capitalism is an emergent "thing" and not an ideology, so it's impossible to build a coherent ideology opposing it.
>>62187425>He identified the Paris Commune of 1871 as a concrete historical example of this conceptThe Paris Commune of 1871 saw a "council" of 90 people leading a population of 2 million.In math terms, the people were led by 0.0045% of the population.In other words: "concentration of power in the hands of a microscopic elite".
>>62186178Larry Fink managing all the public sector union pension funds with Blackrock and using his position as the "voice of the union worker" to push ESG is what communism looks like.Sorry all the little workers thought they would get the apples and cream. At least you can take solace in the fact that you "own" the means of production and get a vague yes-no vote on how things are run.
>>62187087>The dictatorship of the proletariat is workers, together, united, deciding together the direction of their working conditions and of society.Yeah, and what that looks like is (((Larry Fink))) and (((Randi Weingarten))) coming up with plans and giving you a vote "Should we improve society somewhat? Yes/No". You don't get any say in the means by which they will "improve" society, or even any indication of what they really mean when they say "improve". Congrats on your stock certificate in "Globohomo Monopoly Corporation".
Marx holds essentially magical thinking about how 'um actually the cities will stop exploiting the countryside and polluting with science mkay'. He holds essentially magical thinking about infinite expansion of production once capital is collectivized. Marx holds essentially magical thinking about how once we stop exploiting excess labor the coal we shovel into the machine is infinite. People meme on capitalists for believing in infinite inflationary growth. But Marx is thumbing his nose at Newton at a level that belies belief.
>>62182030Centralization of power is bad, doesn't matter if the system is fascism, communism, or a not-so-liberal democracy. If the man in charge is deranged and you can't replace him in under 5 years, then it's game over. Also, the wealthiest and most powerful countries on earth remained capitalist and they did their best to stop the spread of communism. The Soviets hanging in for that long is actually quite impressive, and one might say it was only because of the threat of nuclear weapons.>>62182047If they had computers and high speed internet like we do today, it could have worked.>>62182053Commies could get higher social status as well by climbing up the ladder in management or getting educated and working in more prestigious occupations.>>62182251Yep, this is something leftists can't grasp. 99% of them unironically think that billionaires have billions of dollars sitting in their bank account.However, they still have a point. A certain percent of the economy is wasted on useless luxury of very few people who aren't really needed.
>>62184025That's the pure definition of communism. Colloquially, "communism" refers to the Marxist-Leninist socialist movements that aim to achieve the actual pure communism.
>>62182106>Truth is not inherently meaningful.That explains why you live the lie that Communism is better.
>>62182030economic calculation problem
>>62187203>It's so competitive that it's mostly provided for free.Like web browsers in the 1990's and beyond
>>62182030jews.north korea no jews , it works
>>62182030If you weren't part of the top 10% in 2025, you're lower class
>>62182047It’s like playing a city builder game where you manually have to do everything yourself, vs a city builder where you just let the npcs build stuff and grow and profit on their own individually.Yeah, controlling everything manually might soothe your autism, but you’re going to be slow as fuck and get steamrolled by the npc delegating player, especially at high scale.
>>62182457Marx was a wealthy jew that lived off donation bucks from his rich friend. He also wrote for an established newspaper company that Lincoln frequently read
if we stopped the jews from printing money and doing regulation theftcapitalism may do little betterking is so much easierflibe.com would be everywhere free energymost of rest would followfree rooms and slave girlsjew deadorc sold or sent home inc mik wop feminist14 yo slave girl hotty importedmega hydro electric stations just for fungreenarrays.com replace big tek, media, lawyers, academia, net, games, movies and more, just make vid for anything need learnresearch fundedred light gone instead small road circlefree wya have no overpass instead middle u turn lanedymaxion car stirling enging burning hydrogen gas from swap able tanks exhaust watercanals and bargesrussia concrete wheel monorailtrains planes boatsfun fun fun 100% white west and russia lands inc ukraine
>>62187612Im unsure what youre trying to argue about, because you have marxs idea of infinity completely reversed. His criticism of capitalism was its reliance on infinite growth and not a stable system. His take on money was that value ie matter was created out of thin air. Cotton turns to a shirt and now that cotton is worth more, no new matter was created but the reflection in money was that there was matter created. Marxs whole philosophy is rooted in nature, he hated the idea of infinity. His best rant was actually talking about the capitalist trick of the women work force being progressive. > let women into the workforce for 30 cents an hour> men who were making 80 now make 50> now married couples are BOTH working to make the same household income as when just men worked> now the wife no longer has the time to, feed, teach and care for her children and has to pay someone else to do it
>>62189874Real communism is "the agricultural revolution and its consequences for the human race"Its idealized fantasy about ancient human living as small tribes where everyone supports eachother only making necessities. > joe the hunter brings back game for the tribe but tore his shoes> Bob the tanner uses some of the game to make leather and gets some food> jill gets some food and leather and in unspoken trading she makes shoes for joeNo cash is needed in this system
