Why is alcohol no longer seen as a part of the diet but instead treated as something that should be avoided? Egyptians, vikings, and monks drank beer by the gallonsGreek and roman children drank wine for breakfastAll soldiers were given alcohol as part of rationsWhy arent we doing this anymore?
So the water wouldn’t kill them.
>>21696140Fermentation at those times was so unregulated and random you were lucky if a "beer" passed 3% abv.
>>21696142If it was purely a replacement for water, people wouldnt drink gallons of it
>>21696144Thats still good. I wouldnt want something too heavy at room tenperature anyway.
>>21696144it probably wasn't even that much. the daily beer for most people was probably just fermented overnight so it was probably not even above 1% most of the time. and it would've been sweeter too since the sugar wouldn't be fermented out as much, that would make it more energizing for physical labor. it feels like we're close to having a modern equivalent but it's still not quite there. energy drinks with vitamins added, or "healthy" sodas. but they kind of miss the point by using artificial sweetener and not providing a wider variety of nutrients and instead just having like 1000% B12.making a radler/shandy with a non-alcoholic beer and some lemonade would probably be closer to what they were drinking back then.
>>21696145It wasn't strong stuff, like >>21696144 said, and even then stronger stuff was watered down, partly to kill whatever pathogens the water had and so workers didn't spend the shift clattered. Thats what grog was: rum mixed with water (and sometimes limes, hence why bongs were called limeys) as sailor rations and drank in the presence of the captain so sailors didn't squirrel some away to save up and get sloshed.
>>21696140They were drinking shit that got you shitfaced as quick as a can of soda would. And we see the effects of what happened when the masses got access to distilled spiritsLondon Gin craze is one example. Brits couldn't fuckin fathom that "Ey, maybe I shouldn't treat this much stronger drink like I did the ale I quaffed by the galon"And then a bunch of brits became extreme alcoholics or died destitute in the streets cause they drank fuckin pints of straight gin daily. Happened everywhere, but people tried to ignore it.French guy murdered his wife after guzzling a few king's cups worth of random liquor across the day? Frogs blame it on the one thimble of absinthe he had and not the tank of brandy he'd pickled his brain in on the reg.Bunch of fires get started in the colonies cause drunks get a bit arson-y or accidentally knock over oil lamps while struggling to crawl into bed, having drank enough Applejack and whiskey to kill a horse. Obviously applejack has properties that make people arsonists!People are fuckin retards and its only recently that the general public has started to catch on that drinking the strong stuff like it was the weak stuff doesn't turn out too well for em and if suddenly it takes more Whiskey than it did before to make them feel alive, maybe they should cut back and not replace their cup with a bottle.
The industrial revolution happened
>>21696167>it probably wasn't even that much.anon, the guy you replied to asserted that 3% would have been extremely rare. your post didnt suggest otherwise at all. did you even read the post you replied to?>we oh ok thanks for answering my question
I've been reading a book about pre industrial brewing practices. I have some answers.>>21696142This theory is not entirely true. Safe water was relatively easy to find throughout history. The 1854 Broad Street cholera outbreak effected the poor, not everyone. It was caused by infected, unfiltered water in the Thames. But at the time, London had had aqueducts bringing fresh water into the city for hundreds of years. The cholera outbreak was caused by two water companies neglect and their exploitation of the poorest of the poor.As well, the alcohol in beer isn't enough to sanitize water. It's the boiling process in making beer that killed bacteria. But you can't boil the shit out of water. No one wanted shit water.>>21696144This is not true either. It's only true of the most ancient of societies, with the process of making beer from bread (such as ancient egypt in OPs pic). But even then a skilled brewer could make much stronger beer. The stories of Enkidu in the poems of Gilgamesh prove this.Farmers brewed weaker beers as a means of nutrition, mostly for women and children. You can look up how to make "table beers" for examples. There are studies where scientists recreate old beer recipes. Initially the beer they made was around 4% alcohol, but with practice they could get as high as 7-8%
>>21696140Because people are genuinely subhuman nowadaysIt used to be normal here to get a 0.5l vodka and go to someone's house. Now half the zoomers or millenials don't drink at all. Society has become gay
>>21696388 cont.The factor which modern readers lack context for about Farmers' and pre industrial brewing is that it was nutritional. Today, alcohol is pasteurized and filtered. The yeast and other elements of the grain provides nutrition and calories. As well, the bacteria helped the gut microbiome. Monks could live off of strong unfiltered beer during fasts, but would be sick from drinking a modern filtered and pasteurized equivalent, which lacks nutrients and beneficial bacteria. The true answer is that people drank brewed alcohol for two main reasons:>Nutrition >To get drunkIt's easy with our modern sensibilities to want to give our ancestors the benefit of the doubt, but the truth is that Farmers and day laborers just enjoyed being drunk, and could be drunk more often because unfiltered beer/wine/cider was easier on the stomach and actually quite beneficial. As well, the effects of alcohol help with coping with back breathing labor. You can even see this today: when I worked at a grocery store, construction workers would come in at lunch and get fried chicken and budweiser tall boys. Enough to get you buzzed but not enough to make you sloshed.As well, beer was important for celebrations (holidays, weddings, etc.). That's when people got the most drunk (generally but not always)Modern moral sentiments also play a huge part. I can't get into because it's just so much. But for example, the term alcoholism is less than two hundred years old. Blame the swedes and protestants.>tl;dr: beer nice while working hard. unfiltered unpasteurized beer not make sick to stomach like steel reserve.
>>21696140bruh they had 2% alcohol dirty beer, not enough to get you a buzz
>>21696388> No one wanted shit water.Speak for yourself helpful historian.
It’s possible to live of alcohol for a few days if you develop a crippling drinking problem and food becomes a lesser priority
>>21696167>healthy sodas almost hereKvass is a traditional, fermented Slavic beverage that is low-alcohol, probiotic-rich, and tastes sweet, sour, and slightly bitter, often with a hint of rye bread. It can be made from ingredients like rye bread, fruits, or beets, and is known for its potential health benefits, including gut health and supporting the nervous system. The drink is made by fermenting ingredients with sugar and yeast, and can be carbonated by bottling it.
>>21696388>>21696394wow great write up. thanks
to think, I had to tone down my original recipe for this, because the math was telling me that in getting the colour and viscosity I wanted, I was about to make a 12%ABV monstrosity.
Everyone fixating on beer to make bullshit claims about nutrition/low alcohol content are conveniently ignoring shit like how the average american man prior to prohibition drank 1.7 bottles of WHISKEY a week. The radical difference in consequences of being drunk while digging dirt and operating factory equipment is the reason not any contrivance about beer becoming more intoxicating
>>21696394If you got this from a book could you share the title? This sounds like an interesting read.
We have better less damaging copes today than just alcohol, the proles you are talking about didn’t even know how to read. There are lines of work you could get in to where you can get by being buzzed all day if you really wanted to, so in a way that way of life lives on.
>>21696569Great point anon. I didn't want to go too into liquor because it wasn't that relevant to OPs question, but America's alcohol habits before the temperance movement are insane. Giving babies shots of whiskey and all. It's worth looking into for anyone interested. It's the reason why americans today are so addicted to soda, why they're called soft drinks. >>21696601Historical Brewing Techniques by Lars Marius Garshol. The book is mostly about the gastronomy of brewing and not so much the monk fasting nutritional ueast side of things. There is no one good source for comparing the nutritional aspect, so start pirating some jstor studies
>>21696140in pre-christian eruope beer and wine were a rich people thing, commoners drank mead
>>21696626* because for the most part wine and beer were imported, thus with a higher price, and also the most retarded retard can make mead it seems
>>21696569>living conditions are continually getting worse for slavesYes that is the point of the thread.
>>21696637The opposite is generally true. Honey was much harder to come by than grain/fruit. It depended entirely on region. Romans in Italy drank wine because grapes grow well there. Most wheat was grown in Roman Libya and primarily used for the grain dole. Romans in different corners of the empire drank different things. Germanic tribes drank beer because grain was more abundant, and had mead when honey was available. Romans in Rome made some beer, but they learned the practice from germanic peoples, and it was a niche market for autists.Alcohol before canning and bottling was expensive to ship and didn't stay good for long, except sometimes wine. Unless you lived in a city, your family made their own alcohol. You used what you grew. In that case, fruit is king. It has sugar all ready to go. Even when making beer, Sumerians would add dates for sugar. On the American frontier, apples and cider were king (Johnny Appleseed planted all those trees so families could make booze, not for good will or whatever like we tell children). If you had to pick one drink to represent working people, it would be cider and other fruit wines. But even then, beer was just as common. The perception of wine as fancy and expensive is an Anglo thing because grapes didn't grow well in England, and it had to be shipped from overseas. And beer wasn't really imported for the most part until the industrial revolution, mainly because of colonialism.This isn't really relevant to your point, but I want to enlighten anons more about how different olden beer was. Beer for the overwhelming majority was not brewed to be hoppy and bitter. It was brewed with local plants like juniper to add flavor. You can still buy beer like this today, bit it's incredibly, incredibly, incredibly niche.
>>21696671I'm talking about europe circa 400BC +, wine was exported to europe by greeks and beer, idk, but from the context I got that it was also an import (maybe from the phoenicians?)source is barry cunnlife's booklet about "pytheas on the sea" or some shit like that. as a more interesting factoid of that book and on that line, wine was imported from city ports into the continent by in-land trade routes as shown by amphorae deposits
It's too strong with the 5% alcohol these days
>>21696621>Historical Brewing Techniques by Lars Marius GarsholNice one, I might have to pick this up; Thanks.
>Why is alcohol no longer seen as a part of the diet but instead treated as something that should be avoided?cancer, liver disease, addiction, etc.
>>21696671England was and always will be the gods of cider. The 'magic soil' meme really does apply for apple and pear orchards over there.
>>21696229don't care lol
>>21696569>1.7 bottle of whiskey per weekIsn’t really as crazy as it sounds. If you split that up into 7 nightly sessions it’d be equal to avoid 4 drinks each. Heck that’s not even too drunk to drive for most people
>>21696706They didn't just drink whiskey thats ontop of all their other drinking
>>21696637Beer was never imported>>21696671This is factually trueThere's still many recipes for juniper berries beer that have been passed down. I have a couple from various sources
>>21696736who crafted beer in continental europe 400BC+. give me soures then, what was clear from the book I read was that it was a rich people thing, commoners wouldn't drink beer, they'd drink meadexcept for scythians who'd drink wine by the tons, they rolled in a whole other way than continental europe propper
>>21696144ancient beer was much weaker, but not because fermentation was not understood. they knew how to brew strong drinks, they just didn't because you can't have a society where everyone is totally plastered all day every day. they brewed weaker beer and watered it down, especially for kids, because the alcohol would sterilize the water enough to be safe to drink the watered down boozesame thing with wine cultures. that's why in the bible paul tells timothy to stop drinking pure water and mix some wine in.
>>21696706Assuming were talking standard 750ml bottles, i drink exactly 2 bottles per week, and its enough to maintain a buzz throughout most of the day, every day. (though my drink is of choice 50%abv)
>>21696204This is one of the main reasons, we have to operate machines now instead of using picks and shovels or whateveralso more recently women in the workplace, guys can have a beer or two and go back to work, far fewer women can because they're smaller
>>21696748You don't even really have to water it down. If you don't hold the mash water at temp long enough (especially if you bring it up to temp just before sparging/lautering/rinsing the shit off the shit), your malt enzymes (amylases) really don't have time to work on the sugars. You wind up with something sweet that the yeasts can only do so much damage to - just enough to carbonate it if it were sealed for a month or so. Rack or pour it off the trub/dead scum at the bottom, and you've got yourself a vitamin B potion, loaded with sugars, that's also providing a bit of nutrition to help maintain your brain, bones, muscles, cellular metabolism, and oddly enough your liver and kidneys (but even at 2% is probably doing more harm than good).
>>21696168>ywn be a british sailor in the 1700s or 1800s who gets the bright idea to save all of their rum rations for a few days and then get absolutely sloshed one day
>>21696878>Be drunken sailor>Get thrown in brig seems like a bad idea
>>21696422theres also barley water too which i think is another slav beverage
>>21696167>>21696422old fashioned malt beverages also exist.and really there's nothing stopping you from brewing up a batch of premodern table beer.
>>21696140Based. Imagine all the shenanigans like giant rocks being dropped by the workers on ppl. Or guys falling down the sides of the pyramids. I imagine it was quite a time to be alive.
>>21697348My go to method is to do a main batch, mash some crushed rye and dark, low Lintner malts on the side, then run that mash back through the rinsed grains of the main batch. It gets its own boil, some hops, and the end result's usually a slightly sweet small beer that goes well with lemon and woodruff.
>>21697356>I imagine it was quite a time to be alive.>The average life expectancy in ancient Egypt was around 19 to 25 years
>>21696140Old “beer” was basically what kombucha is now.
>>21696140>water purification>liquid bread (vitamins, calories)/ grain preservation alternative >>21696145>people wouldnt drink gallons of itMedieval Europe, if you couldn't avoid sus water as an urbanite, you just might (or just cheating on month long 'fasts', lol).
>>21697425That sounds great since I have been married longer than that and am ready to call it a day.
>>21696142The alcohol in the beer kills the lead of the water
DAE OLD BEER WASNT ALCOHOLIC? IT WAS LIKE KVASS, OR MAYBE COMBUCHA, OR YOGURT OR SOME SHIT, IDK DUDE ANYTHING BUT BEER THERE'S NO WAY THE ANCIENT MANUAL LABORERS WERE DRINKING BEER ITS A TRANSLATEION PROBLEM
>>21697497Gay as fuck. Obviously a /pol/ regular who thinks he's gracing us here with his wooden presence
I read some pasta once about how hops has some residual effect on the brain and keeps people in a slave state.
>>21697520If you want to jump through a bunch of hoops, sure. Hops contain several flavonoids, "Plant estrogens"... so do a lot of other plants. If you put yourself in a situation where the little bit of plant hormone you're actually getting out the other side is giving you bitch tits, your immobile drunk ass was probably well on the way anyway. These do not have any noticeable effect on testosterone production - the ethanol does, but you have to be an appreciable alcoholic to see appreciable reduction in testosterone output.Hops also have a mild sedative effect - not that they really make you calm, but if you're already kind of tired, one or two beers might help quiet down your brain and get you ready for bed. Ethanol is a much more potent sedative.People are slaves because we like inertia. Someone moves some things around in a way that doesn't threaten our stability and we put a crown on him. It's not the beer, it's the person promising a bounty of it for killing his enemies.
>>21697520>my social media brainrot device told me that hops is jewish mind control
>>21697520Gee anon, if you read it online then it must be true
>>21696748It's insane how mentally ill retards just say retarded shit with full confidence. Talking about how the 3% alcohol beer is going to sterilize the water. Talking about how you would water down fucking BEER.Fucking insane. How come actual sanitizing alcohol is 99% alcohol and not just a mix of 2% alcohol and water?
>>21696688Nigga England only makes cider as a byproduct of being conquered by Normandy and Brittany which are the REAL KINGS of cider, no one likes english cider
>beer in ancient times?>VERY CONTROVERSIAL, DO NOT RESEARCH, IT IS DANGEROUS LET ME TE-
>>21698140>No one likes English ciderSo why is it always on tap?
>>21697520I once read some totally 100% true post about how rabbis used a giant dreidl as a time machine to travel to like 8000 BC where they taught goyim the art of making alcohol so that they would be easier to enslave in the future............also every time you see a jew drink it's actually fake alcohol or even worse, walnut sauce that keeps them immortal..............stay woke fellow sober aryan
>>21696167just drink kumboocha fagit super easy to make too, dont pay $5/bottle for it
The beer was more like wheat yogurt back then.
>>21697963>>21698011never claimed it was true. Dismissing it completely is far more naive than considering the possibility, dumb reddit pseuds.
>>21699531Everything, even basic physics, is more probability than anything. The end result is generally a superimposed state of what can happen and how often.How often have you, or anyone else here, managed to use beer to make someone suggestible or placid? Drunks of any variety tend to be chaotic - hops don't change this enough to be of value, if at all. Nobody wants unruly slaves.
>>21696140And why do you think most men during ancient times died in their 40s? And they drank alcohol because it was better than drinking rotten water and getting sick.
beer is like ice cream. good to have occasionally. bad to have all the time.
>>21699531>slave stateAll I needed to see to dismiss you as a conspiracy tard
>>21699900>And why do you think most men during ancient times died in their 40s?They didn't. Life expectancy was low because like half of kids died during childhood. If you made it past childhood then you had a good chance of living to 60+
>>21696896More like have your belly shaved with a rusty razor, early in the morning
>>21700179For me, its putting him in a longboat
