Any knife that you occasionally sharpen

>knives =/= cooking skills

CONSOOM

Two victorinoxes.

>>21709755
Which would be best for sharpening? The Fibrox seems like it doesn't sharpen well/easily; like it's too hard of a material.

>>21709747
next step? makes it sound like eventually you will buy a thousand dollar handmade knife just for the hell of it
i use wusthof

>>21709747
Munetoshi gyuto.

>>21709767
The fibrox sharpens beautifully. Too soft and it's hard to form an edge, too hard and you need special abrasives.

>>21709900
Ackshully difficulty sharpening comes from the harder carbides more commonly found in stainless and alloy steels to increase wear resistance/edge retention.
Simple carbon steels can have very high hardness and sharpen relatively easily because they rely on very fine grained martensite for both edge retention/stability and hardness. Fine grained steel is easier to sharpen. It's part of why carbon steels are so great for kitchen use. All knives eventually get dull, but only some of them are quick and easy to sharpen back up.

>>21709747
Mercer
That or a whetstone setup plus some cheap knives to train on

>>21709747
use those knife skills of yours to figure out your personal preferences
Also don't ask /ck/ about knives, it's almost all coping poors here

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>>21710022
>just do wtf
Thanks for the non-advice.

>>21710800
If you have knife skills you should have an idea of things you think you would prefer in regards to blade curvature, weight balance and things like that.
It's not complicated

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Getting a simple misono carbon steel knife cured me of knifeguy-ism. I would encourage anyone stuck in minmaxing hell to just get a misono and some shapton glass stones and move on with their life

t. wasted years and probably over $1000 on this former hobby of mine, the rest of my knives I either gave away or they're gathering dust

anything Japanese. They are as autistic about their steel as they are about their raw fish.

Get a Fujiwara FKM. Best bang for the buck you can get when t comes to Japanese style knives. Tojiro used to be just as good but they are way overpriced now and to thick behind the edge. Presumably because clueless housewives tried to chop through chicken bones and blocks of frozen spinach with them and then tried to return them.

>>21710878
What do you mean "used to be" have they gotten worse? I have one that's nearly 20 years old and it's an axe

Redpill me on K and Elephant Sabatier. The slimmer profile is intriguing, and I like prices, but the bolster worries me a little, since I've only used stamped knives before.

>>21710831
Which model do you have?

>>21712701
The name has changed a few times over the years, EU Carbon or EU Steel or Sweden Steel depending on the vendor. They're all the same knife. Sometimes they have some decorative engravings, sometimes not.

>>21709747
if you want a european style chef knife
and spend <150€
you won't go wrong with a standard German knife with DIN steel

>Wüsthof
>Zwilling
>Burgvogel
>Güde
>F. Dick
>Giesser
>Felix
>Gehring
and more are all decent

special mention would be
>Robert Herder aka Windmühlenmesser
as they the last ones doing a traditional "Solinger Dünnschliff", which is a thinned out geometry

personally my favorite is Güde
most of my knives are from the Alpha Oak series
their founder invented the serrated bread knife

>>21712764
forgot to mention
get sharpening stones and a honing rod
it's really easy to learn and makes your life a lot easier

also research the series of knives before
some of the mentioned manufacturers also have low quality stuff among the nice ones

>>21712767
>>21712764
If a company has sold out its image to make more money on cheap garbage and you have to spend a half hour with a sales rep to figure out what the non-crap products are, it should be disregarded. this kind of behavior should not be rewarded. there is nothing wrong with making cheap crap because poor people need knives too but you shouldn't intentionally confuse people by giving it the same name and logo.

there are enough high quality manufacturers out there that we still (for now) have the luxury of shopping by brand alone, as long as we're careful

>>21712772
>If a company has sold out its image to make more money on cheap garbage and you have to spend a half hour
kek
you completely misunderstood this

a professional butcher or large kitchen has vastly different requirements than an enthusiastic home cook
basic line might be made to last 2-3y because of dishwashers and is made to be sharpened every 1-2weeks
in the big kitchen I worked this was no problem, a guy came every week to sharpen all knifes

as home cook I don't want this
the same brand might make a knife with better edge retention and probably also looks better (i.e. wood handle), which all is more expensive

anyway
like I said
my favorite is Güde
can't go wrong with any series there

>>21712785
pretty sure the main difference between utility grade and home grade is just that one has a sani-safe NSF thermoplastic handle that won't enrage the health inspector and one has a bacteria magnet handle that looks nice on the magnetic hardwood knife bar, but that's not the only kind of differentiation they have, wostuf or hankels or their ilk also have blister pak knives made of pot metal that they sell at truck stops and the only thing they have in common with something you could find in a commercial kitchen is the logo

>>21712789
>pretty sure the main difference between utility grade and home grade is just that one has a sani-safe NSF thermoplastic handle
nah it's also the quality, degree of automation, general feel and other looks

technically the handle is the only thing excluding them
but no professional kitchen is going to spend money on knife because it has a marginally better balance, is hand-grinded or the design is better

also stuff like forged vs stamped and hardening process make a difference
if you sharpen your knifes every knife and throw them into recycling after a few years, most of that doesn't matter though

nowadays I bring my own knives (and everyone else in my kitchen as well)
most chefs working with me have very nice, high quality and expensive knives because it just feels nicer working with them

but again the cheaper lines have their place
and there are difference
the brand that makes high quality, high end knifes will most likely also make a better beater knife

>>21712806
if you say so. I never understood the boomer attitude towards sharpening too often. it's like the boomer attitude towards anorexia. yeah in theory in THEORY that could be bad if everyone did it all the time like the boomers seem to think but if that was the real problem then the world would be a better place but instead we get knives that get sharpened once every 20 years and people who are wider than they are tall

>>21712817
>boomer attitude towards sharpening too often
what does this have to do with boomers

sharpening really often wears down the knife
depending on how aggressive you sharpen, a pairing knife can be useless after just 50x sharpening

and at home it's annoying
I'd rather just do it once every few months or once per year

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>>21712875
boomers manufactured this false dichotomy between "honing" and "sharpening" and it became fodder for endless pointless flamewars

a typical home cooking knife would be lucky to be sharpened 5x in its life let alone 50, the superstitious fear of sharpening led to millions of millennials growing up distrusting boomer knife advice the same way they rejected the narrative that toking the marihuanas makes you go crazy and kill your parents. and just like with marihuana addicts overreacting when they found out it doesn't kill you, and turning into insufferable potheads, the knife thing resulted in a whole generation of "knife guys" collecting sharpening equipment like funko pops and we ended up with arguments like picrel

>>21712734
I read that the swedish version is very reactive and easily rusts. Is that true in your experience?

>>21713027
it's a carbon knife so of course you have to treat it as such. it's not as reactive and stinky as some cheaper crabon knives I've owned, but it's still reactive enough where you'll probably want to force a patina right away

as long as there's a good patina on it it's not a big issue unless you're cutting up a 5 pound bag of onions you plan on keeping and serving raw, just wipe it off and dry it after using it, and if it rusts because you slacked off, the rust is easily removed with barkeepers friend

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>>21709747
next upgrade is to get these bad boys

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>>21712892
>a typical home cooking knife would be lucky to be sharpened 5x in its life let alone 50
the enthusiastic "home cooks" in my family all have something similar to pic related and use it... enthusiastically
or even worse, go to their workshop and ruin the knife at their double grinding machine

both methods are quick (convenient) and remove comparatively a lot of material

>false dichotomy between "honing" and "sharpening"
also great read
https://scienceofsharp.com/2018/08/22/what-does-steeling-do-part-1/

whetstones and honing rods are a waste of money get a good diamond stone and a leather strop with diamond compound

>>21714587
>muh my thing is better than your thing
>n-no I-I don't have any proof
sure anon
the industry standard is le bad
but your consooomer slop is the only rational solution

>>21714482
do they actually though or do they just sheepishly rub the knife on the sharpener for 10 seconds and then try cutting their finger again and declare victory. people buy those things because they were told by (you) that sharpening will destroy their knife so they should dumb it down as much as possible by buying stupid gizmos and avoid damaging the knife by not actually trying

boomer knife advice has always been to avoid "damaging" the knife so millions of rubes have $100+ german knives in their drawer that are duller than a butter knife and if you suggest doing anything about it they have a panic attack

>>21714603
use your fucking brain, in what world is soaking a stone that dish out with time and requires frequent flattening better?
there's less set up, less maintenance, and it's more efficient to use a diamond stone

>>21714603
>the industry standard
the industry uses sanding belts
just because some retard "chefs" on youtube make videos telling you to buy stones doesn't mean jack shit

>>21714666
nice trips satan
also diamonds shed, and then what. then you buy a new diamond stone. I'd rather just flatten my normal stones by rubbing them together since the diamond plate I got to flatten lost all its diamonds, nta btw

also if soaking hurts you just get a splash n go stone like >>21710831, literally just take it out, put some water on it, and go to town, ez pz

>>21714672
>diamonds shed
stop buying shit stones from china

>>21714676
happens to all of them even the fancy weeb kind, that's why the "better" ones sell replacement surface thingies, it's just a matter of time, you obviously don't use yours much if it hasn't happened to you but it's ok, this is a timesink hobby and that's nothing to be proud of

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>>21710831
Nice anon. Hope to be able to splurge a little bit on a similar setup.
I use a cheap blue/white alum oxide stone and I lap it with a 300grit DMT diamond plate (had it laying around for chisel sharpening)
That and an 8 year old fibrox with a delaminating rosewood handle. The thing is ugly and probably housing demonic super bacteria. Still shaves the hair clean off my wrist after about a good 2 minutes on the water stone

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>>21714669
bullshit
>the industry uses sanding belts
professional knife sharpeners use sanding belts
big kitchens sometimes have something like pic related

i swear
no one here has ever seen an actual restaurant kitchen from the inside
let alone worked in one

many chefs sharpen their own knives
and most do so with regular, locally available whetstones
in my country that's mostly "Zische" stones (like missarka), because they're cheap, available in gastro equipment stores and good
literally no one on youtube is shilling those, retard

>>21714854
>destroys your temper

Uncooled powered abrasives will ALWAYS reduce edge retention on knives. This may not matter to you, but it is a proven fact and some people care about knife performance.

>>21714652
I would consider my self a very experienced knife sharpener and I offered to sharpen an older persons knives one time because they were ALL incredibly dull and they just ghosted me about it.

>>21714861
just use a honing rod
some people really want to complicate things

also
>back to the discussion why knife manufacturers have series for professional mass use and home cooks / private purchase

>>21714868
old people end up developing their own odd knife handling techniques to cope with dull knives. knife spergs won't acknowledge this of course, because according to knife culture the only valid way is my way and everyone else is wrong and dumb, but if you watch those old people cook, you'll see. it is a technique, even if it's not a technique you may personally approve of

so I don't recommend offering to sharpen knives for someone like that. they're used to what they have, and they'll have to re-learn how to cut things and likely get injured in the process

of course, if they ask, then you can go crazy with the weeb stones and give them a perfect hamaguriba the likes of which they've never cut food with before, but don't talk them into it, you'll both regret it

>>21714652
>do they actually though or do they just sheepishly rub the knife on the sharpener for 10 seconds
yeah they use it correctly
and you can see lots of metal shavings

i just think your premise is wrong
the people you are talking about either just don't know anything about sharpening, hence the perma dullness
or they excessively use power tools / sharpeners

i only ever hear / read online about muh avoid damaging your knife while sharpening

>>21714870
You can use a honing rod to hone an edge, but you still need to sharpen every few months. Even the relatively gentle kitchen environment will abrade steel. Honing is great for softer steels, but terrible for thinner harder blades.

>>21714873
I was considering that was probably why, but they're fairly good cooks themselves. When I see those vids of grandma cutting carrots/zucchini over soup with their hand as a cutting board you know those knives have never been sharpened. They're just thin enough to push through foods relatively easily.

>>21714870
There's a few different types of professional knives.
The knife that any retard can use without destroying too easily and is easily sanitized(fibrox types you see in subway). Then there are the "hard use" knives that must stand up to 8 hours of cutting through abrasive materials. There are some very expensive tool/alloy steel debas that make sense for a fish monger, but would be retarded for any home cook to spend that money on.
Finally there are specialized use knives like yanagibas that facilitate good and proper cutting. Some chefs use a gyuto for slicing fish, but the yanagiba has many advantages when used for its intended purpose.

>>21710831
Thanks for the sacrifice

>>21710831
>tfw left handed
I don't want to have a knife that my girlfriend can't use
On the other hand it would be nice to have a knife that my girlfriend won't scrape laterally on the cutting board

>>21714861
oh god it's this autist again

Katana

>>21715095
Im just stating facts bro.

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>>21714933
You could easily make it 50/50 if it mattered

>>21709747
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tagnCKatOsg
I feel this is a very relevant post