Why is umami as a flavour profile so underrated? I get it's more subtle and refined than the big 3, but as far as my personal preference goes it's almost always preferable to sour
>>21947593Because no one actually knows what it is or how to identify it. It only exists in theory; anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar and should be treated with extreme prejudice.
>>21947593It's just tons of sodium and it's overrated if anything. Need this meme word to go away.
>>21947608It's the flavour of glutamate-rich foods, dumbfuck. Your taste buds literally have specific receptors for glutamates. Stick some MSG on your tongue, that's essentially the essence of umami.
>>21947593Understanding umami is a really great way to unlock better cooking skills. With almost every savory dish I make I'm considering what/how I will integrate unami rich ingredients to improve overall balance of a dish.I made insanely delicious smoked chicken legs for dinner tonight. My marinade was grated serranos, garlic, zested and juiced lime/mandarin, salt, extra virgin olive oil, and shio koji. The shio koji has protease enzymes that both tenderize the meat and convert proteins into base amino acids. One of those amino acids is glutamic acid = umami. Smoker was at 275 loaded with some post oak cubes. Pulled the legs at 175 internal and they were extremely juicy, tender, and loaded with delicious flavor.>>21947608Scientists have found the physical taste receptors for it on the human tongue. It mainly comes from glutamate and ribonucleotides like inosinate and guanylate.
>>21947637I think dashi is a better representation of distilled umami because it combines glutamate with inosinate. Inosinate works synergistically with glutamate and increases perceived umami taste by like 10 times.If you make dashi from scratch it is really interesting to taste the broth after the kombu has been soaked and then again after you steep the bonito flakes. It turns it from oceany and mineral seaweed tea into a deeply savory and delicious broth that almost tastes like you made a stock from bacon.Another good one is comparing knorr stock cubes to the ramen seasoning packet. They both have msg, guanylate and inosinate. When you taste both the flavor they share in common is the umami. You'll probably notice it roght away and start recognizing other more artificial/junk foods that rely heavily on thst combo as well.
>>21947649That's fair. I need to try and find some dashi or make my own, I had some dashi "teabags" I brought home from Japan but I lost my last ones during a move.Anyway yeah, once you start noticing the taste of glutamate in foods it's impossible to say umami isn't real. People who think that are dumb, and their cooking probably sucks.
>>21947608w-w-w-wetodd
>>21947654hondashi (freeze dried instant dashi) is easy to find if you cant find the tea bags or actual kombu and bonito, or if those ingredients are expensive where you live. i use the instant in anything i dont need a whole big batch of dashi for, like sauces or instant ramen.
>>21947593>>21947608Isn't it just the Japanese word for 'savory' because a Japanese guy made glutamic acid into a salt crystal in a lab? I had to look up who first crystalized citric acid. Some "Carl Wilhelm Scheele." Imagine if you said "this lemon sure is sour" and then a guy on the internet was like >um actually sour doesn't exist, it's syrlig
>>21947654Kombu + dried shiitake mushrooms also makes a really great dashi if they are easier for you to source, but it's got a much different taste than using bonito flakes. Dried shiitake is also an incredible umami ingredient because it has high levels of guanylate. Adding one to a tomato based sauce/soup makes a crazy difference even though you can't taste the mushroom. The guanylate just boosts the umami taste from the glutamate a ton.
>>21947667Savory is a flavor or category of foods. Umami is a primary taste like sweet, sour, salty, bitter. Loan words are commonly used by all english speakers.
>>21947672Savory and umami aren't interchangeable words? If someone told me "this soup is very umami" I would register it as "this soup is very savory" in my mind >sourI think you mean syrlig? Sour is just a category of foods whereas syrlig is the primary taste. Loan words are common for English speakers.
>>21947593Food Preservatives. Pickling and fermentation falling out of favor after the Great Depression.
>>21947593>Why is umami as a flavour profile so underrated?Because it's a buzzword with no actual meaning. It was popularized by anime watching incel virgins. There are studies that confirm that watching anime feminizes men. Also it's a dumb sounding word that should never be used. There isn't a single flavor out there that can't be described using non hipster words. Thread hidden.
>>21947676There are foods that are savory and not umami and vice versa. Boiled potato with salt is one example of a savory food that is not umami. Ripe tomatoes are umami, but not savory. For the average fast food enjoyer the distinction is meaningless, but if you want more accuracy when describing the taste of foods there is absolutely a difference. This debate was had by food scientists in the 70s and umami won once the taste receptors were found on the tongue.Your argument about syrlig fails because umami is not a direct translation of savory.
>>21947676nobody would say the soup was umami unless they didnt understand what umami meant.
>>21947676Umai = deliciousMi = taste
>>21947692I hear people say stuff like "soy sauce is umami" "this and that is umami" etc. I'm just saying it to illustrate that my comprehension of the word is that they're saying "this is savory.">>21947691Lol, you think I'm arguing with you?>Boiled potato with salt is one example of a savory food that is not umami.I find steaming them retains more flavor, then mash them, pass them through a sieve, and then add salted butter + milk. It is very savory. I think that's why people like potato.>Ripe tomatoes are umami, but not savory. A tomato would be savory. If I ate a tomato or an eggplant etc and it was savory, I would think, yeah this is a savory taste. >This debate was had by food scientists in the 70s and umami won once the taste receptors were found on the tongue.Is the food science debate in the room with us now? >umami is not a direct translation of savory.It literally is though, as >>21947699 points out It's literally the same word, linguistically speaking
>>21947702Ripe tomato is primarily sweet, acidic, and umami. Very very far from a savory food if you don't hold arbitrary definitions of words for the sake of your own argument.It is not a direct translation of savory because a Japanese scientist isolated glutamate and coined the term for the taste that came from it, calling it umami. There were only descriptive words for the taste of umami in Japanese before that. Westerners did not know what made chemical compound have umami and so they called it a savory flavor and not a primary taste.It's just funny how outdated some anons understanding of simple things like primary tastes are.
>>21947710Umami is literally an arbitrary translation of savory, just as your use of the word acidic was an arbitrary substitute for sour>for the sake of your own argumentFor the second time, this isn't an argument lol.
>>21947716There are savory foods that are not umami and umami foods that are not savory. How is this possible?
>>21947716>citing wikipedia as an argumentcome on. savouriness in actual usage has a wider meaning than umami, referring to most foods that aren't sweet or desert like. umami is the specific flavour of glutamate. not all foods that are considered savoury are rich in glutamates. it's a very specific flavour, that your taste buds literally have special receptors to pick up on. cooking is chemistry, and umami is a chemistry-proven flavour. it's not even really an argument, it's settled science, you're just being stubborn for no good reason.
>>21947722I guess it comes from people using different words to mean the same thing.>>21947724It's now the third time. Who do you think you're arguing with, and about what? >umami is the specific flavour of glutamateSavory is the specific flavor of umami. They both mean the same thing. This is so fucking stupid lolIf you take a pinch of it and put it on your tongue, and you say "it's savory," you're saying that's not correct, mr. linguist? https://www.chosun.com/economy/startup_story/2023/03/14/4SNWOCUTIVA6BE3DTCBGGSO5QM/>토마토는 짭짤했다I guess nobody informed them that such a thing is an impossibility. We need to go on a missionary enterprise and teach them to say 토마토는 우마미다
>>21947733I figured you wouldn't answer my question lol. Worth a shot I guess. I'm still confused how a food can be umami if it has no perceptible glutamate. Savory and umami mean the same thing correct?
>>21947742My nigga, just give it up.
>>21947746>still avoiding the question
>>21947742Why are you asking me this question Umami just means savory. >There are savory foods that are not umami and umami foods that are not savory. How is this possible?It's not possible. That's the objective answer to the question. It's literally just an anon bullshitting.
>>21947757>still avoiding the questionBecause I say so is not answering the question. The extreme difficulty some people exhibit with the umami/savory thing is because there is a very specific scientific understanding/definition of what umami is as a sensory experience, glutamate receptors on the tongue activating, and then there is the basic or culinary definition. Brothy, meaty, savory, delicious, etc. Savory is an umbrella term that describes foods with flavors that are umami, salty and other non sweet foods.
>>21947796It's hard to tell what the question even is. Multiple questions have been asked already. >I'm still confused how a food can be umami if it has no perceptible glutamate.You tell me why people say things like "beef tallow is umami." Upon looking it up, it appears there is no glutamic acid in beef tallow. I wonder what they're trying to say. Sounds like>Savory and umami mean the same thing correct?>and then there is the basic or culinary definition.So you're literally admitting it's bullshit you're making up to be pedantic, and that you perfectly understood the analogy of comparing glutamic acid to citric acid and then borrowing another word for it. But why are you just a pedant when it comes to savory foods? Why not sour? >the lemon is not sour, you're just experiencing the sensation that occurs when acidic compounds release hydrogen ions upon dissolving in saliva, which I am dubbing sylrig after the Swede that discovered itThis is what you sound like >glutamate receptors on the tongue activatingThat sounds savory.
>>21947672>>21947691>>21947742Porn sick weeaboos that have wasted decades of their life on their Japan obsession and justify it by trying to gaslight normal people into believing the most stupid shit.>>21947722>How is this possible?It's not possible. Your brain is just fucking mush. Here's a definition for savory from Merriam Webster:>the taste sensation that is produced by several amino acids and nucleotides (such as glutamate and aspartate) and has a rich or meaty flavor characteristic of cheese, cooked meat, mushrooms, soy, and ripe tomatoes >>21947724>savory = all foods that aren't sweetPossibly the single most retarded talking point in all these threads. Nobody has referred to salt as savory. Even more offensive is trying to claim spicy things are savory. Literally nobody ever has bit into a scotch bonnet and yelled out "OW IT'S TOO SAVORY!" It's insane dumbfucks actually believe spicy = savory.
are you guys still talking about this
>are you guys still talking about the thread topic
>>21947593The 4 horsemen of /ck/ ragebaiting>umami is real>Bourdain was based>British food mogs>???
>>21947813>beef tallowAre the beef tallow is umami people in the room with us? Lol>definitionsNope you just fail to understand something very basic. It isn't really two definitions technically. One describes the mechanism and the other describes the broader sensory experience. Not a hard thing to understand at all.>syrligIt's a remarkably stupid comparison for reasons discussed above. You are really hung up on that one lol. Savory is an umbrella term for non sweet foods and umami is a specific taste. If you think umami foods and savory foods are the exact same thing then you must think sweet food and dessert foods are the exact same thing. Your last point is just concession, so thanks.>>21947824>scared of loanword because muh JapanA negative obsession is still an obsession, obsessed retard.The rest is just retarded, bad faith, and low IQ cooklet strawman whining.
>>21947837>Are the beef tallow is umami people in the room with us? Lol
>>21947831British food is good though>>21947824He's not a pornsick wapanese, I think he's just too parasocially involved with his eceleb youtubers.
>>21947839They're retards. Why the FUCK did you bring another retard into the umami discussion. Savory would have been the correct word to use in that situation I think.
>>21947843Right, it's everyone except you that's the problem
Literally just searching for "beef tallow" and then ctrl+f ctrl+f ctrl+f "umami"
>>21947846>he truly believes fat has umami because a guy on reddit said so.LMAO
etc This poses a significant problem because something purely fat cannot have any amino acids in it, yet most people seem to recognize the flavor that is supposedly only limited to an amino acid.
>>21947831British food is unironically better than all of Africa, 99% of Asia and most of eastern europe.
>>21947851>reddit said it, so it must be true.Lots of people also say umami doesn't exist and that savory and umami mean exactly the same thing. These are also both objectively incorrect and demonstrate a misunderstanding of biology and science that was settled/agreed upon 40 years ago.
>>21947851Another thing I will say is that your examples prove my point that savory and umami are not the exact same thing. It's impossible for fat to have umami because the compounds responsible for creating umami are not fat soluble. OTOH fat, and especially a flavorful fat like tallow is absolutely a savory food/ingredient.
>>21947852Especially English food. I like the stuff made by John Kirkwood. Not too knowledgeable about stuff like Haggis and whatever they eat in Wales and Northern Ireland. But yeah 'british food is bad' is a thoroughly dead meme. >>21947850>>21947851>つまり牛脂を使うと料理に牛脂のコクと旨味を加えることができるのが最大のメリットになります。>>21947853Yeah you can couch it however you like, as if I'm appealing to the authority of a redditor, but I'm just illustrating that people use the word to mean savory. Everyone except for you, that is.>Lots of people also say umami doesn't exist Nobody says this. Virtually everybody does say things like "beef tallow has an umami flavor" because umami means savory. >These are also both objectively incorrect and demonstrate a misunderstanding of biology and science that was settled/agreed upon 40 years ago.Are the biologists and scientists in the room with us? >>21947854>It's impossible for fat to have umamiIdk man, it's like the English language itself tasted the fat on the spoon and said "this is umami"
>>21947856Wildly stupid argument, bud. Amusing you seem to believe fat has umami because one redditor said so, but still just insanely stupid. You're a newfag if you haven't seen any posts denying the existence of umami on ck.
>>21947856If you want to be a little less stupid give this a little read. Your argument is essentially that a lot of people have a fundamental misunderstanding of something and because an arbitrary amount of people are wrong it is actually true. Should I find 5 pictures of first grader's math tests and show you that 2+2=5?https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4515277/
>>21947862>Wildly stupid argumentLol dude for the third time. This is not an argument. Who do you think you're arguing with and about what? >Amusing you seem to believe fat has umami because one redditor said soone, two, three, four English articles, one Japanese article, (now) a Japanese youtuber, and an average English speaker (on a searchable site like Reddit) is not enough to illustrate the meaning of the word umami. Maybe if I was a Japanese speaker I could more deftly procure examples. >if you haven't seen any posts denying the existence of umami on ck.I'll amend my statement "nobody" says this to "nobody visible or searchable or knowable by normal means" says this. >>21947865>Your argumentMy what?>and because an arbitrary amount of people are wrong it is actually trueAccording to you, it's just retards that are the problem. Everyone else is the problem, not you. You seem to be tremendously resistant to accepting that words mean what they mean. There really isn't another way to say it. People want to say what they mean; to mean what they say. We're really straw-splitting at this point. Tell me, do you know what the word "pedant" means? >Should I find 5 pictures of first grader's math tests and show you that 2+2=5?Once again you aren't really good at understanding analogies. The analogous subject of the kids would be human language related like reading or writing here, not arithmetic. And the age of the students would be adults, because it's adults that are, as you claim, responsible for the misnomer and retardation. It's not you that's ever the problem, it's everyone else.
>>21947593>underratedwhen?how is pot roast underrated when it's the best dish ever conceived?
>>21947608>no one actually knows what it is or how to identify itpot roast, anon.pot roast.
>>21947881Damn bro you are actually retarded. The first post in this thread is denying the existence of umami.
>>21948320>I'm totally going to resurrect the discussion 7hrs after its conclusion kek
>>21948764>Im going to concede 12 hours after the conversation startedkek
>>21948781Yeah, good morning. Are you even the same anon? I have my doubts because the other anon at least was intelligent. you on the other hand lead in with ragebait. Because nobody ITT 'denied the existence of umami,' there's nothing to say. I don't know who you're talking to or what you're talking about, aside from what the other anon said about this being a common ragebait joke on /ck/
