>>22001390
yes, but why would you even try when meat is good for you?

>>22001396
for most vegans it's an ethical issue rather than a health issue

>>22001398
Yeah they prefer performative bullshit about not eating animals to real-world efficiency by not destroying habitat and slaughtering helpless rodents and birds to make room for their crops.

>>22001404
a lot of crops are grown for animal feed

>>22001390
Yes, but most nuage pretend vegans are so stupid they can't even think of vegan dishes that even omnivores consume. See sicilian pasta, greek eggplant dishes, gazpacho, grilled vegetables... and see how posers are too lazy to look up simple af recipes.

>>22001390
You gotta peasantmax. Hard day's work in the field, they had hearty food. Meat to expensive so they find ways to be creative. Had pottage yesterday. Oats, lentils, onion, tahini, lime, bit of nutmeg, stock. Lovely stuff. Italian food mostly works, minus the cheese. Mexico, again minus cheese. Lotta Chinese stuff is fine.

The main things you miss out on are processed western foods that got super popular in the last century or so. And milk, but they're selling as we speak GMO cowless milk so that problem is basically solved.

>>22001413
>but they're selling as we speak GMO cowless milk so that problem is basically solved.
IIRC they're only making some of the protein. They still haven't made the fat, lactose, etc. so I wouldn't consider it a proper substitute. Just like with lab-grown meat there will likely be issues with it until it's actually an identical product.

>>22001390
Yes as long as you stop trying to emulate non-vegan stuff. There's nothing wrong with salad and fried tofu or eggplant.

>>22001398
It's laughable that some people think growing plants who otherwise wouldn't exist for food is fine but growing animals who otherwise wouldn't exist for food is murder. Like do you love nature or not? Do you respect nature or not? You're killing things to eat. Period. You can either eat half a head of lettuce and throw the rest away (ew dirt gross, ew heart gross, ew tips gross, ew stem gross) or you can eat/use 100% of an animal and throw literally nothing away. Makes no sense.

>>22001390
>keto recipes
>bread

>>22001390
yeah it's come a long way from when everything was just tofu and chickpea substitutes. some things like cheese though are just never going to be good

>>22001419
The thing with fats and sugars is you don't really need the cow version for it to work. For instance you can usually swap out real butter for fake butter in baking and get similar results (though the fake stuff has water added to be spreadable, which can cause issues). The only real important part is the protein, which is what they couldn't make until now. Milk fat itself is very difficult to produce because of its unique structure, but after homogenisation the structure is destroyed and you just have a simple fat. Likewise you can swap lactose out for other sugars. The only cases where the milk fat is used specifically is due to its ability to form emulsions and churn into butter, which you can solve with, respecitvely, emulsifiers and just using the fat directly instead of going through a milk step.

>>22001429
>You're killing things to eat. Period.
Yeah but most would argue killing a plant is less harmful than killing an animal. Plants react to things but not to the extent that animals can.

>You can either eat half a head of lettuce
Why only half? I'd eat the whole thing. Who has an issue with lettuce tips wtf

>or you can eat/use 100% of an animal and throw literally nothing away.
Most people just want to eat premium cuts of meat. Blood and organs and fur and bones are considered byproduct for most people and they would never eat blood or organs.

>>22001429
The funny thing about meat eaters is how you can easily tell the ignorant ones from the honest ones. Honest ones say “I like meat more than I care about animal suffering” but ignorant ones produce some massive cope like this, pretending not to understand the difference between killing a pig and killing a carrot.

>>22001450
>For instance you can usually swap out real butter for fake butter
There's nutritional differences. Milk fat is a good source of bioavailable vitamin A, plant fats not so much. I don't really trust anyone to know how to completely supplement fake butter to be nutritionally identical.

>Likewise you can swap lactose out for other sugars.
Some people can't digest other sugars. Other sugars have different effects on blood sugar. For vegans it may not matter as much because they just want a close substitute free from animal use but I wouldn't be able to drink a milk alternative with sucrose and I don't think corn syrup is as healthy as lactose.

I get a lot of my calories from milk without having much choice in the matter and would likely not do well with the current substitutes available instead of real milk.

>>22001456
>to be nutritionally identical.
I'm not talking about nutrition. I just mean baking pastries and crap. My mum's a baker and she uses mostly vegan butter for everything cuz it's cheaper.
>I don't think corn syrup is as healthy as lactose.
It's fookin sugar mate.
>I get a lot of my calories from milk
Da fuq? Eat real food nigga.

>>22001460
>I'm not talking about nutrition.
I am.

>It's fookin sugar mate.
Yes and not all sugars are exactly the same.

>Da fuq? Eat real food nigga.
Milk is real food.

>>22001461
You're talking about nutrition here, but I almost guarantee you it is not healthy to get most of your calories from milk. You should start with that instead of mulling over the difference between different sugars.

>>22001413
That combination of flavors sounds insane
I know good vegan food exists but that does not sound like a good example at all. I’m handicapped when it comes to vegan food too because i hate lentils, god i hate them so much

>>22001465
>but I almost guarantee you it is not healthy to get most of your calories from milk
Yeah that's the typical consensus but plenty of cultures have done this and were fine, and forcing myself to eat a lot of other things doesn't work.

>You should start with that instead of mulling over the difference between different sugars.
Nah I'm good. Sucrose causes diarrhea for a lot of people so replacing lactose with that could be bad for them. Oddly enough corn syrup can be okay but HFCS would have fructose which can cause problems for some people too. It's worth considering if you're going to try and make or support a replacement product rather than being dismissive because you don't know as much as you think you do.

>>22001390
I think that might actually be a turd

>>22001469
It's very good, but as a lentil hater, you've shown yourself to have bad taste so I understand. If you want other pottage recipes, you can basically treat it like an easier risotto. I make a nice mushroom one which is just the risotto recipe with rice swapped for oats. It's convenient because it cooks very fast.

Also, what kind of lentils do you hate? The recipe is with puy lentils which I forget to specify and that can make a difference.

>>22001470
Almost all vegan milks come with an unsweetened version. And if we're talking about stomach issues, lactose is far worse than the alternatives.

>>22001478
>Almost all vegan milks come with an unsweetened version. And if we're talking about stomach issues, lactose is far worse than the alternatives.
I don't want it unsweetened because I need the carbs. I have no stomach issues with lactose.

>>22001470
>HFCS would have fructose which can cause problems for some people too.
About the same amount as an apple.

>>22001487
Which can be too much for some people, especially in something like milk which has no fiber to at least provide some bulk. There are a significant number of people who can't digest sucrose or fructose properly, and just like people with lactose intolerance they may only tolerate a few grams once in a while when mixed with other foods.

>>22001494
So you're evoking exceedingly rare genetic anomalies that you probably don't have as an excuse to get most of your calories from milk?
Bro, just eat like a normal person and I guarantee you will be much healthier.

>>22001390
Why does it look like literal shit?

>>22001498
>So you're evoking exceedingly rare
It's not exceedingly rare. Do you even bother looking at any information before responding and being snarky? Fructose malabsorption possibly affects up to 40% of people with sucrose intolerance being less common but still affecting millions of people. It's probably underdiagnosed and might explain a large percentage of people who think they just have IBS.

>Bro, just eat like a normal person and I guarantee you will be much healthier.
I ate perfectly for years and kept getting worse. That is not a very uncommon experience. I have "CSID" which basically just means I have starch and sucrose intolerance. But oddly enough I have zero issues with lactose. So no, just eating like a normal person will not help and will just lead to dehydration and malnutrition.

>>22001390
>keto recipes for beginners
>vegan burger
>glass of piss beer in the background
Huh?

>>22001498
He can eat however the fuck he wants. Why dont u tell ur mom to stop using industrial oil in her baked goods (bads)

>>22001520
That other guy isn't me, and my mum's cakes are quite nice thank you very much.

>>22001512
>Fructose malabsorption possibly affects up to 40% of people
Did you even bother to look into why that claim exists?
About 40% of people don't habdle absurd doses well, we're talking like 50 grams in a single sitting. You're shifting the goalposts from "some people can't handle consuming much at all" with "a lot of people woukd gave issues if they replaced all the sugar in a coke with fructose and then proceeded to chug it."

>>22001525
I'm not shifting anything. Sugar intolerances vary in severity. Some people will have higher tolerances and some people will tolerate less. It's not inaccurate to say some people can't have more than a few grams of fructose just because someone else can have more before symptoms appear. There are official recommendations from medical sources recommending some people to not consume more than a few grams of fructose at a time if they're that sensitive to it.

I can consume 50g or more of lactose in one sitting and have zero digestive issues, just like apparently by your own claim that 60% of people can have absurd doses of fructose and be fine. I don't really want to know what I might have to deal with if lactose was replaced with another sugar. I don't really care if it upsets you just because someone feels better doing something differently than you and you don't understand it.

>>22001544
>It's not inaccurate to say some people can't have more than a few grams of fructose
And they're an extreme minority.
>if they're that sensitive to it.
And the vsst majority of people aren't.

>I don't really want to know what I might have to deal with if lactose was replaced with another sugar.
The problem really isn't that most of your sugars are lactose. It's that you apparently get most of your calories from milk. That's not healthy no matter how hard you try to cope about it.

>>22001555
Ive no idea why the conversation shifted towards the guys diet n why u started talking like a nutritionist when it was u who said sugar is sugar n theyre all the same ie youre retarded
The only 1 coping here is u

>>22001555
I dunno probably not that extreme. Still talking about potentially causing problems for millions of people. I don't really think that's just okay.

There are pastoralist groups today getting most of their nutrition from dairy and they're doing okay. There have been others throughout history doing the same. A lot of my older relatives and other people I've known had a high preference for dairy, various similar food issues, various similar health issues, some of them were sick and died young. Been dealing with this for decades and you're trying to act like you completely understand and can diagnose after reading a few posts on a Mongolian basket weaving forum over an hour or two.

>>22001574
>it was u who said sugar is sugar n theyre all the same
I said no such thing.

>>22001576
>There are pastoralist groups today getting most of their nutrition from dairy
And these aren't exactly the healthiest people on the planet. You're taking health advice from impoverished herders. Not to mention there's a huge difference between the nutritional content of milk vs fermented products like cheese.

If you have an actual, diagnosed, medical issue then that's whatever. But you really should be working on diversifying your diet within the bounds of what your body can handle.

>>22001595
>And these aren't exactly the healthiest people on the planet.
They're pretty healthy. No signs of dietary related diseases, not stunted in height. They actually do worse once switching to eating more crops. It probably helps that when they did eat it was basically eating every part of the animal which would be very dense in nutrients.

>Not to mention there's a huge difference between the nutritional content of milk vs fermented products like cheese.
Are you saying cheese is superior? It's more concentrated fat and protein but a decent amount of nutrition is left behind in the whey.

>But you really should be working on diversifying your diet within the bounds of what your body can handle.
I am, but I still feel best getting at least half of my daily calories from milk and days when I actually have eaten more I may not want to eat much the next day and just have milk and I feel fine doing that too.

>>22001605
>No signs of dietary related diseases
Because they, even historically, rely on trade to obtain crops.

>They actually do worse once switching to eating more crops
Specifically grains have some nevagtive health outcomes in these groups. But it's not the introduction alone, but excess consumption. Historically even the "best" examples that carnivore weirdos like to point to (eg, the Maasi) consumed fruits, vegetables, and grains from their neighbors. While a little over 50% of their caloric intake was milk derived.

>Are you saying cheese is superior?
Cheese contains many micronutrients that milk does not as a result of the fermentation process.

>>22001478
I just can't imagine limey nutmeggy lentils
The mushroom parts sound good desu, have not had savory oats for a long time.

> Which lentils
Not sure desu, but I'm also extremely picky about beans for the same reasons, so it's broad issue for me.

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>>22001390

>>22001398
Ethics are mental illness.

>>22001667
your butthole is mental illness

>>22001617
>Because they, even historically, rely on trade to obtain crops.
That can be true while dairy is still providing the bulk of nutrition. I never said no crops were eaten or milk was nutritionally complete or anything like that. But that a high dairy intake does not necessarily mean sickness for everyone and some may find it beneficial.

>>22001390
Simple, dont try to imitate meat. Go for beans and rice and other plant foods that are good for you.

>>22001667
this is retarded thought.
ethics solidifies the ability to thrive beyond survival.
>>22001390
vegan food is impossible to make because the plants can't give consent.

>>22001729
>vegan food is impossible to make because the plants can't give consent.
plants usually want fruit and nectar eaten but that's about it

>>22001737
>plants usually want
they can't want because they lack the capacity to think.

>>22001742
okay if you just want to get into a semantic debate but fruit and nectar don't serve the plants any purpose unless they're eaten and plants that produce these things have developed symbiotic relationships where it benefits them for the fruit and nectar to be eaten. that's probably the closest you'll get to a plant "wanting" you to do something.

>>22001390
Yes but you have to forget about trying it to taste and look like meat based food.
I am not a vegan fag or anything but I can enjoy a plant based meal from time to time.
Last time i made a bean basil tomato cream/"soup" with tofu blended in with it for "protein". It was so creamy and tasty.
Trying to make shit like a vegan "burger" is what makes people stay the fuck away of "vegan" food.

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>>22001413
>cosless milk
Then what the fuck is that if it is clearly not almond milk

>>22001774
>Trying to make shit like a vegan "burger" is what makes people stay the fuck away of "vegan" food.
I like vegan burgers when they're just trying to taste "good" instead of "like meat". Boca burgers are better than Impossible burgers even though Impossible is supposed to be more like a beef patty.

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>>22001396
>Meat is good for you.

Maybe try getting your nutrition info from real academic researchers and not social media grifters chud.

>>22001412
They do make those. But those are low protein side dishes you moron.

>>22001827
So fast and fried foods are kind of good for you?

>>22001827
What the fuck is that chart trying to say

>>22001404
We don’t live in a world of cattle lazily grazing idyllic pastures and boar feasting on the forest’s bounty. Those forests have been razed to grow soybeans not for tofu but pigs that can scarcely turn around so China and India’s populations can grow another billion

>>22001404
Just say you prefer eating meat instead of pretending to be some paragon of efficiency. Livestock farming is anything but that.

>>22001453
I worked at a meat works. I worked on the stunner killing thousands of 4 day old calves a night and throwing them down a shoot to the next guy who hang them up and stabbed them in the heart

Will still eat steak any day. The fuck else you going to do with all those calves. If you want to take one home you know they are for sale for like 50 bucks right. Stop trying to disconnect and pretending you don't live in the same world as the rest of us.

>>22001390
Most cuisines already have vegetable first recipes. Or have the flexibility to go from meat focus to any vegetable focus. It's an illusion to try and imitate meat constantly. Instead of going for a "vegan sausage roll" you should be making something like a tofu roll.
This push for fake meat is what makes it so unappealing

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>NOOOOOO I CAN'T JUST BAKE A POTATO OR SOMETHING I NEED TO PRETEND IT'S MEAT

>>22001914
>>22001923
Imitation meats are a fad that are already well beyond their peak popularity. Most vegans eat and have always eaten other stuff.

>>22001390
Not deliberately.

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>>22001390
>nailed it

>>22001879
Let’s see you build a tastier more efficient steak than nature can then

>>22002282
What kind of a retarded premise is that?

>>22001390
that's one massive turd alright

>>22001827
How is fish on that chart red, but Omega 3 is green?

>>22002364
You can get omega 3 from nuts/seeds/algae.

>>22001390
Yes, Indian food can be pretty good but honestly that feels like cheating in my mind
Vegan food ≠ ethnic food

>>22001390
Not for people who post ai slop.

>>22001453
Imagine getting to the top of the food chain and then crying about it. All our ancestors who were killed and eaten by wolves, bears, lions, etc fucking hate you. Vegans are pathetic excuses for humans. Self hating whites of the diet world

Vegans universally feel guilty for being human, and a living thing that must eat to live. It's basically a mental illness

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>>22001390
Of course, but it's the recipes designed from the ground up to be made with vegetables and not attempting to imitate food that's better made with meat

>>22001665
his brainworm clearly came from eating too much ass

>>22001760
>plants that produce these things have developed symbiotic relationships
>developed
no, anon.
they were created that way.
tell me how something "develops" an evolutionary trait without the mind to know what it needs/wants?
ya done been hoodwinked by the science.

>>22001859
This

>>22002796
the word develop does not insinuate needing a mind to know anything

>>22002796
Successful traits can be developed simply by surviving, a human didn't think "I should have darker skin in desert climates" etc
But
With plants, humans had a hand in developing crops but I think this person is referring to how certain plants developed their lifecycles and seed dispersing traits. Those developed over time for sure, but that is also a concept completely outside of "wants"

>>22001429
Cows live better lives on farms than they would in the wild because they're too docile to survive the wild.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=v1OMaWG7na0 manages to.

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>>22001835
>They do make those
As far as I know and meeting people including vegan restaurant owners no they don't.

>>22001390
Was vegetarian really too difficult of a word to say? Why do we always have to come up with new shorter words for ethnics?

>>22001409
the vast majority of animal feed is the cast-off parts of human food we don't eat like corncobs and vegetable greens

>>22005849
I think that might be true for cows who inherently eat things we can't digest, but chickens and pigs are omnivores and can't subsist on grass and cellulose like cows can. So they still end up being fed actual corn and soy and not just byproducts.

Delicious vegan food isn't hard to make. Beans and rice is easy and tasty, and high in protein.

>>22004536
>new word
>vegan
People have been using the word vegan since the 1940s anon

>the corn
perfect

>>22001390
>Vegetarian
Yes

>Vegan
No

The health food store in my town makes an amazing vegetarian lasagna, but the cheese really pulls it off.

>>22005885
Maybe in san fagcisco. The rest of of the world was saying vegetarian until social media came along.

>>22001667
based. only a degenerate and debauched species like humans could come up with something as absurd, deluded, and self congratulatory as ethics.

>>22005956
nah other animals show forms of it too

>>22001390
There's plenty of good "vegan" food but none of it was invented by vegans. Take ratatouille for example.

>>22005956
Animals have some form of morality, otherwise they wouldn't understand fairness. They have some concept of the golden rule

>>22001390
>white people cooking
Everygotdamtine

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eggplant curry is tasty

>>22001667
m-morty *buuurp* this galaxy is 90% factory farms morty. it's a billion billion quadrillion life forms, slaughtered every instant morty.
and most of it's kosher. I'll spare you the details but it's really fug*buuurp* fucked up morty. the jews got a finger on everything morty. except your grandpa.
but the moral of what we were just talking about story, is, there's no god up there morty so shut up and eat your chicken nuggets

>>22005954
The guy who invented veganism was British

>>22001390
In theory, yes, but you would have to do it all from scratch, industrialized options are garbage.

>>22005873
Not that anon, but this is wrong. Chickens and pigs have a much easier time being fed scraps and by-products then cows do.

Pigs in particular will literally eat anything organic and produce meat and fats out of it.

>>22001390
Does vegan food imply you have to create fake meat? No, dumbass.

>>22001413
Real peasants had meat just mostly bird and fish, eggs, cheese too since it kept longer than milk, only rarities were beef, lamb, fruits and sugars, spices, herbs and roots were plenty, grains and tubers, sausage and jam were their way of eating good when they had the money