Was he right?
>>150095021No. Angel had a right to a fair trial. He didn't deserve to be killed.
>>150095048Neither did his victims
>>150095048Mr. A is actually fine and will stand up for a criminal who's put in the effort to reform and paid his debt to society. Angel refused to change until it was too late and was fucked for it.
Day by day, I'm becoming Mr. A.
>>150095021He was right to let him die, but he was wrong to put it on her. What if she said Angel should live?
>>150095021Nolan Batman.
>>150095021I wish these stories were better. The art is good.
We need more guys like Rex Graine.
>>150095163I don't think Mr. A would allow someone the opportunity to change for the better. He would just kill them instead of giving them a second chance. From his view, once you've done wrong, you're irrevocably evil and unrepentant.
>>150098477That anon is citing something that specifically happened in a Mr A comic.
>>150098477>>150098533BTFO
That's why I beat the shit out of homeless veterans
>>150098533wtf I love Mr. A now
>>150099526More like, "Someone finally posted a page of Mr. A being marginally sane." Most Mr. A threads position him like his this insane arbiter of justice that considered lying about knocking over a glass of milk just as evil as raping a baby on national television.
>>150095021He's based
>>150098533>>150098113People will read this crap and still say Ditko deserves most of the credit for Spider-Man's success
>>150095021Everyone in Ditko's comics is no older mentally than 12 so I can't apply adult logicHe was a competent artist and let's appreciate that
>>150100383It's good if you read it as schizokinoIt can be insane and loony, but it's a man real and weird opinions and the art is good
>>150100383Good art, good plots. The problem is that it's far too wordy, he really needed a co-writer or an editor to rein him in. Definite proof that Stan Lee's contributions were significant.
>>150100383This dialogue is designed as a political manifesto first. He can do better dialogue if he is actually trying to be commercial. Every other component is still spectacular here.
>>150099584What?
>>150100383>>150100433Fuck you.
>>150099774The problem is all the strips are very strawmannish.
>>150095021I'd always heard that Steve Ditko was an objetivist obsessed with Ayn Rand, but having read the Fountainhead and 1984, Ditko's moral code is clearly completely different to Rand's. Ditko's heroes are actually altruistic to non-evil people, whereas Rand glorified "the virtue of selfishness."
>>150105242>1984
>>150105177Yeah, some of them have realistic-ish voices (at least one dude that kidnapped the little girl in >>150098113Was horrified when he heard his accomplice was going to kill her, but still didn't stop it) but mostly they act like crime drones that occasionally cry when they lose.
>>150105177It is capeshit. Like when somebody told Captain America that he's out of touch and should just die because he doesn't watch NASCAR.
>>150098533>>150098113>>150095021These comics are fucking terrible, its just the writer masturbating his views in the most lame and hamfisted way possible
>>150105242I think that what appealed to Ditko about Rand was her black and white view of morality, also the bashing of hippies and liberals he obviously helpd in contempt.
>>150105242>>150105309Oops, meant to say Atlas Shrugged.
>>150095021Who has the rights to the character right now?I'd actually like to see him in a modern context.
>>150095021Mr. A didn't deliberately cause Angel to fall. Even if he did, he acted in self-defense towards somebody repeatedly stating intent to kill him while there was an injured person nearby. The woman was demoralized into believing she must save her own aggressor at her own expense. If she was truly such a martr, Mr. A would have followed her wish, but she was acting out of lefty society's pressure that tries to convince victims of crime that they are at fault for criminals wronging them.Mr. A was 100% correct and tackled an actual issue, even if the writing lacked subtlety. But given how people actually argue we must accept crime in DC and other cities and constantly let repeated offenders back to the streets, this had to be said.
>>150095021No. Because he isnt better than the criminal, since it wasnt karma but he choosen to let him die.
>>150105913Go back to flapping to your own pedo fanfic of 19th-century girl characters, Moore.No real-life rescuer would prioritize a hostile person over an injured victim.
>>150105634Nothing new under the sun
>>150105930He could save Angel, than they could both carry her to the hospital quicker. See how slowly he walks away, it does look like that her injuries are not that severe.
>>150101388From the few correspondences he did, Ditko seemed to actively despise having to punch stuff up for commercial works. The only reason why he was so heated about Spider-Man stuff was that he felt his art couldn't speak for itself if Stan Lee was falsely claiming that a lion's share of Ditko's work came from his instead.
>>150105242I think he'd argue that, for people to be able to get to that John Galt level, you first have to have someone beat sense into them before they saw the light and cull the people who'd get in the way.
>>150105850Ditko’s brother, last I heard.
>>150105850It would be the exact same dialogue and the exact same situations.>Mr. A stumbles upon someone doing something wrong>He fucking kills them while preaching about black and white morality to them and the helpless innocent>His strawman adversaries wail for mercy, which he chastises them for>At some point its obvious he's just preaching to the readerThe existence of cell phones or fentynol doesn't magically make the premise any different.
>>150107146I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
>>150101320>>150101388>>150107135>“Stan’s dialogue style of hero/villain wisecracking, undercut the conflict of hero, villain – but it worked with readers who just wanted to be entertained. I believe Stan loved writing those corny captions. It added to reading appeal but undercut a more serious growth of a teenager in an heroic role.”>— Steve Ditko, July 2016 letter to David Currie, Ditko Shrugged, David Currie, 2020 p 74https://comicbookhistorians.com/the-ditko-version-exploring-steve-ditkos-recollections-of-marvel-in-the-1960s-by-rosco-m-copyright-rosco-m-2023/I find this quote interesting, because Ditko himself acknowledges that Lee's dialogue and captions added to the appeal, it just wasn't the direction Ditko would've preferred.
>>150107225What would be interesting is putting him in situations that aren't as black and white as Ditko always presents things. What would Mr. A do about the Israel-Palestine conflict for instance?
>>150107252Pro-Israel because Ayn Rand was pro-Israel.
>>150107229Almost all of Mr. A's comics contain:1.) Dumb innocent who somehow doesn't understand black and white morality (i.e. objectivism)2.) Evil person who thrives because of immoral systems in place (i.e. compassion for criminals, criminal justice being balanced on situational circumstance, etc.)For objectivism to take hold, you have to introduce it to everyone by any means necessary while getting rid of those who thrive off of/support systems objectivism is opposed to. Even the main plot of Atlus Shrugged is Galt's followers purposely ruining society so they can rebuild it in his image.
You can tell whos who by who gets triggered by these comics lol nothing offensive or obscene at all but sois and faggots literally shriek "grrrr the writing is so badd >:((( ITS UPSETTING ME HOW BAD IT IS OK?" as a preemptive admission of guilt knowing Mr A would condemn you for something too. Probably why all of Ditkos associates, largely hippies, got triggered by him too.
>>150107252They both hurting innocent people, so they must both perish would be his position. Remember: Mr. A DOES NOT believe things can be anything other than black or white. Trying to force him to acknowledge gray is literally antithetical to his whole concept. You're basically wanting a deconstruction.
>>150105634Yeah but ditko is a crazy person so it’s fun to read
>>150107307Sorry, son; posting on 4chan in and of itself would be enough to get you on the receiving end of a Mr. A beating. You're purposely associating with a website that actively harasses people and deals in underhanded things.
>>150107285I always found the whole "compassion for criminals" criticism baffling because have you seen the American criminal justice system? In what way is it compassionate or care about people's circumstances? The system is immoral but in a completely different way, those who thrive in it don't take advantage of "compassion" but of their money and connections, the system is designed to screw over the poor and marginalized.
>>150107252As>>150107322 said, he'd see that both Israel and Palestine do bad things, would ignore people from both sides who try to argue about the historical, economic, religious, and socio-political causes of the conflict, and wouldn't care about who started it or who has done worse things or which side has more dead children. He'd either kill everybody or just walk away because nobody there is worth saving.
>>150099774Most of Mr A is shit you'd see(albeit properly written, usually) in regular super hero comics. Which also ironically means it fails to present its point.>>150105634Yes, but its right-wing so its ok to criticize it.
>>150107307I agree with Ditko in a lot of things and think the writing is bad anyways. As a comic, at least. Some say it should be seen first as a political pamphlet and a comic second
>>150107135>get told what to do>claim it is co-createdYou can spin it like you want it. Or does any printer can claim he co-created Spider-Man, because they printed it.I believe that it is a co-creation.
>>150107252>>150107263He'd guillotine a lot of people and leave the survivors to sort out the mess.
>>150107387Miranda rights and other rights of the accused rulings and laws really made a lot of boomers and parents of boomers seethe. It didn't matter to them that these rules were designed to protect the innocent, anything seen as "helping the guilty get away with it" was seen as the worst thing ever.And even today, many still seethe about these rights and protections, just talk to any cop or watch any cop show.
>>150100383Who designed the character who's on merchandise all around the world?
>>150107252You mean it would be interesting to make Mr A a real character and not a mouthpiece Deus Ex character.What he would think about the war? He would hate Hamas and dont feel that much sorry for their citizins dince they dont revolte against them.
>>150107477He probably would kill anyone who isnt a kid and a women of lower rank. Everyone could revolte or do sabotage.
>>150100433You are right. It is very populistic in its under complexity. Was he religious? Because it always feels like a religious stuff. Very undercomplex and very black and white.
>>150105634Not terrible but it is pure writers wankery.
>>150107451Ditko's idea of co-creation would be how other comic teams do it: they both sit down, collaborate on the script, the panel lay-outs, and who the characters are designed. The Marvel Method was: >Stan basically writes 'In this issue, Spidey fights a guy called The Green Goblin: whose just as tough as him but can fly around. Have ol Petey Parker make a little leeway with Betty, but not too much!'>Ditko does literally everything and just leaves some space for word bubbles and narration boxes>Stan makes up a story based on what was drawnDitko's stance is that all Stan Lee ever did was just come up with an art prompt and he did all the rest.
>>150107620Ditko doesnt really honor ideas. He has a point that a creative team should work together than just throw synopsis at each other.
>>150107620>Ditko's stance is that all Stan Lee ever did was just come up with an art prompt and he did all the rest.Not exactly, he never denies that Stan wrote the final dialogue and captions. Or that they had discussed the plots together before Steve took over the plots completely. See the link in >>150107243.>“In 1961 I was working with Stan Lee (writer/editor) at Marvel Comics in producing material (stories and art) for ‘Amazing Adventures’ (which became ‘Amazing Adult Fantasy’). Briefly, in regards to our working method, Stan provided the plot ideas. There would be a discussion to clear up anything, consider options and so forth. I would then do the panel/page breakdowns, pencil the visual story continuity and, on a separate piece of paper, provide a very rough panel dialogue, merely as a guide for Stan.>Stan would provide the finished dialogue for the character, ideas and consistency.” >— Steve Ditko ‘An Insider’s Part of Comics History: Jack Kirby’s Spider-Man’ essay from Avenging World (2002)"And for Spider-Man's credits, he said this:> “A more honest crediting could have been ‘A co-creation by writer, Stan Lee and artist Steve Ditko’ (where neither one is oxygen or hydrogen ‘creating’ water).” >— Steve Ditko ‘Creative Crediting’ The Avenging Mind 2007 (reprinted in The 32 Series by Ditko Vol 1. Overture 2019)https://popculturesquad.com/2019/03/16/steve-ditko-inside-his-studio-sanatorium/>Ditko felt the credits should not have read, “Written by Stan Lee.” They should have read, “Dialogue by Stan Lee.”Either way, his stance was never that Stan did nothing but an art prompt, just that Stan's crediting unfairly gave the wrong impression of how much was contributed. Unless you're talking just about the initial creation of the character, in which case yeah Steve himself came up with many of the most iconic features of the character (>>150107135) based on the initial prompt.
>>150100383Yes? Cowrote it since amazing Fantasy #15 and was the only writer starting with asm #18, or maybe earlier.btw>Ditko thread>it's just more "he was absolutely right about everything," "no he wasn't, he was crazy":(
>>150107773That's what happens when a guy's only real communication with the outside world were "My art should speak for itself" and then a bunch of political screeds. You basically have to get academic to have a nuanced opinion of Ditko.
>>150107767That sounds much better than his >>150107135 page.
>>150107767>I would then do the panel/page breakdowns, pencil the visual story continuity and, on a separate piece of paper, provide a very rough panel dialogue, merely as a guide for Stan.You can see an example of how Ditko did this here for Roy Thomas on Dr. Strange. I haven't seen his panel scripts for Spider-Man, but I imagine they were similar. Can give you an idea of how things worked at least.
>>150107834
>>150107243I like that Ditko didn't like to take full credit always, he wasn't scared to share it. He didn't call himself Spider-Man's creator, but instead co-creator. And whenever he was angry for something similar, I think that most of the times he had a very reasonable explanation that people overlookDitko's situation is a little bit similar to the one Moore has. Everyone believes something about him that is controversial, but they don't bother with properly researching what he said throughout the years. So the general consensus is that he's a retard that one day decided to be angry because why not
>>150107920Yeah, a lot of people miss the nuances and ignore what people actually said or did. I've noticed that happens with any large enough figure with a somewhat complex reputation or legacy. People tend to adopt simplified narratives about people and stick to them.
>>150108038What makes it harder too, is that to fully understand someone you need to understand the context of everything surrounding them. The time period and community they existed in, the people they knew and were working with, etc. It can be a ton of work trying to understand the truth about someone as much as possible. So it makes sense people gravitate towards simple ideas, there's not enough time to figure out the reality of everyone. The issue is when people are exposed to things contradicting their preconceptions and refuse to revise their ideas. Stubborn and arrogant ignorance is worse than just plain ignorance.
>>150107834>>150107844You can see, though, how someone who doesn't realize that there's an actual script sitting someplace else would look at this and go "Holy Shit! Ditko really DID do everything!"
>>150107801>That's what happens when a guy's only real communication with the outside world were "My art should speak for itself"... or you could read what he wrote. Not only comics, he literally wrote about some topics and opinions. Oh and also his letters, many of them are available online. I'm aware that he said that, but I thought that it was surface level knowledge that he did more stuff. But no one reads that. Nope, they just stick to what people post here or what a biased youtuber said about him. And ironically, even if Ditko just communicated through comics, your argument wouldn't still be valid because everyone just posts Mr. A, Spider-Man, and sometimes Dr. Strange. And that's it. Once I saw a small Killjoy storytime. What about Public Service Package, or Static, Speedball, or even the Missing Man?
>>150107920I mean "DC told me and Gibbons that we'd get the rights to Watchmen after it went out of print, then purposely made TPB reissues every year since the issue 12 came out to legally deny us what we're owed." should be sufficient enough for most people to understand why he hated DC at least.
>>150108185In otherwords, you have to get academic to actually understand Ditko.
>>150108156Well, at some point he was the one writing the plot. And maybe the people that see those pics and understand what's going on also know that he wasn't writing the dialogue. So the "Ditko did everything" idea isn't widespread, but it's still more true than "he was just the artist"
>>150107225I think Morrison would do a fantastic take similar to his pseudo-Rorschach Question in Pax Americana. This is a very Mr. A-esque scene.
>>150105242Steve Ditko's nephew does a lot of interviews these days, and one thng he's mentioned is his dedication for Ayn Rand cooled off by the 90's, and his main thing was more Aristotle's philosophy. Rand was just a way to interpret Aristotle in a modern sense for a while to him.
>>150108317Comic have evolved now where you actually CAN have the Question just straight up be Mr. A in a mainstream comic. Hell, Morrison isn't even the first to have Vic dole out A-style rants.
>>150108401Proof?
>>150108782Frank Miller's Question in the Dark Knight books is basically just Mr. A.
>>150109357Huuuuh??? Now I have a reason to read the other Dark Knight books
>>150109357Jesus, that art.
>>150110360Great, isn't it?
>>150109411Its just like two pages in DKSA.
