>creator openly hates him and has him written off the show like a bitch>still a huge fan favorite villain anyway, arguably more than the green goblin in this showWhy?
>>150128170Green Goblin wasn't in comics, the show was for a generation of kids who never got to know him until after the Clone Sags and GG more importantly didn't have certified badass Mark Hamil voicing him
>>150128223>certified badass Mark HamilAnother redditor on estrogens, great.
I feel like Hobgoblin doesn't work outside the 90s when Norman was permadead. Because nowadays, who even thinks about Roderick Kingsley? If you need a Goblin, either use Norman or just make a new one.
>>150128325Idolatry is a sin my guy.
>>150128356And who am I supposedly idolizing?
>>150128351But the new goblins post-Norman return are terrible.
>>150128223>>150128351The big (and rather obvious) takeaway is that they should have never brought Norman back. Or Harry.Or Aunt May.Or Aunt May again.Or Ben.
>>150128170By 94 hobgoblin was a fucking joke of a character, kind of a far fall from how he was around 83.
>>150128351Every goblin after 1988 or so has been shit.They Killed Leeds, replace him with Macendale who was a non-powered loser, and sort of became the designated loser of the Spidey villains for a while. The Harry goblin relapse was really short and not that interesting either, he just gets cartoonishly evil for a couple issues and dies. Demon Hobby was kind of stupid and seemed more pointlessly bleeding edge. Demogoblin was even more of that. Somehow Norman has returned and then they propped him up as the biggest baddest Lex knockoff for Marvel for a while. And then they made up like a dozen more guys, all of them are fucking forgettable
>>150128883>Or HarryI will die on the hill that bring Harry back was the only good thing to come out of BND and have him slowing come to terms with the fact that Norman was a shit dad and finding a little respect for Spider-man was fun.Harry just sucks as Green Gobby. He was a poor substitute for Norman and if you want a cheap knock of Gobby just use Kingley or anyone else. I hate how many of them there are out there but I buy into the idea that Manhattan is full of abandoned safe houses with gliders and gear.
>>150130850I'm of the mind that undoing Harry's death was shit, but they did at least do some worthwhile stuff with Harry after it anyway.Spencer shitting all over both of those things is the worst part of his ending
>>150128170My favorite goblin was the Demogoblin because he was like the Venom of goblins.
Hobogblin was the best Goblin until Owsley's retarded ass ruined it. After that Harry is an obvious number 2. Norman is only favorite of normies who never read the comics. I hate Normanfags
>>150128351Is this that one bitch from BND or am I mixing them up?
>>150128170They should just make Ned Hobgoblin and have him kill Betty and Flash. Peter repeatedly fucked over Ned every chance he could and quite frankly, Ned also should have been the guy behind the Clone Saga because he got fucked over big time by Christopher Priest being a flaming faggot to DeFalco. Let him come back, make Macendale Gaunt, and have him resume is role as the heir apparent to Norman as Pete's arch nemesis.
>>150128351They only keep him around because his suit goes hard.
>>150128170Hobgoblin was AWESOME, I loved that guy and he had a really cool design. As a kid I always wanted an action figure of him and a Halloween costume (unlike most villains his seemed like one that would be feasible to pull off IRL) I think the stroke of genius of having him be a precursor to the Green Goblin and trying out Osourne's prototypes really elevated them both and sold him as a character. In the comics he was a lame fill-in character, in the show he was his own thing that sets up the Green Goblin as an even crazier, more powerful version. Kind of like when the Green Ranger turns into the White Ranger in a way.>>150128325This also helped. He was at the top of his game. There was no way he wasn't going to be a popular character.
>>150128883>The big (and rather obvious) takeaway is that they should have never brought Norman back.The real takeaway is that Marvel had never adequately managed to replace Norman. Harry only worked as a replacement Green Goblin for short term storylines, he worked because he was still a sympathetic character, and keeping him as a villain would eventually push him past the point of no return. The original Hobgoblin was largely just carried by a mystery that dragged on YEARS too long, and that mystery necessitating that he had the plot armor to keep getting away. The flip side of keeping his identity a mystery meant that he was a fairly one-dimensional villain. A hell of a lot of the comic fandom seem to have started reading during the time that mystery plot was running, but with hindsight he's more like a placeholder Big Bad than a real arch-nemesis, and none of the various different writers' plans for who he'd be under the mask sound like they'd ever have elevated him to the level Norman or Otto were on. Even after all the reveals and retcons and we got a final official canon truth on who Hobgoblin is, he's still never developed past "evil and smug", and he's just the Goblin writers use when they can't use Norman as the villain.
The Green Goblin was retroactively made into Spider-Man's greatest nemesis because of the Tobey Maguire movie. That was cemented by having Norman taking over the Avengers in the comics.
>>150129486>>150129536Macendale as Hobgoblin was never intended to be an archenemy-tier villain, shortly after he takes over as Hobgoblin, Venom was introduced as the new big villain, while Macendale was intended to be more on the level of villains like Scorpion, Lizard and Electro. The problem is that the Hobgoblin identity getting demoted to a lower status resulted in fans of the original guy perma-seething about the new guy, and constantly exaggerating how bad he was, you can usually spot them because the run off the exact same bot script of "he was a joke and a loser" when he was actually just a cromulent B-tier vilain most of the time, but there was no mystery about who he was, so no need for the plot armor and no need for him to always get away. The real problem he faced was there being some Spider-Man writers who seemed to be as salty about the new Hobgoblin as those readers were, so he bounced between writers that wanted to treat him like a normal villain and writers who wanted to tear him down because NOT MUH HOBGOBLIN.But the cartoon Hobgoblin that everyone loved? That's Macendale, not Kingsley or Leeds or anyone else, and everyone loved that version of Hobgoblin. The cartoon drew elements from both iterations of Hobgoblin, but under the mask it's Macendale, and that's a really popular version of Hobgoblin. While that cartoon was still running, killing him in the comics just because one editor hated him was a real dick move.
>>150136927>Killed his girlfriend>Drove his best friend insane posthumously>Was revealed to be behind the Clone Saga and the torment that Peter and Ben suffered during it>Took over the Bugle just so he could fuck with Peter at work tooAll of this was before the movies
