But...why?
>>150157222it was the style at the time
the New 52 was good and im tired of oldfags crying otherwise.
>>150157508It was shit. Voodoo headlined a book. Nobody cares about Voodoo.
>>150157525>52 new books many of which are not just capeshit>some heroes who before got no spotlight suddenly headlining their own books and actually matter for once>ACTUALLY different takes on characters instead of the usual fareI'm not gonna say I liked every single book or interpretation of a character but at least it actually did something different for once. Comic companies constantly advertise that theyre gonna do something different only to do the same shit. Comics should actually do new things sometimes even if risking upsetting dug in readers
Dan Didio former owner of the DC Didiodome just doing Dan Didio decisions
>>150157222>You now remember when Cyborg was treated as an essential JL member
>>150157508>oldfagsThere are 20 somethings on comic twitterThere are people younger than 20 on comic twitter who know more about capeshit than almost anyone here on this forsaken boardNews flash, they don't like the New 52
>>150157637>There are 20 somethings on comic twitter>There are people younger than 20 on comic twitter who know more about capeshit than almost anyone here on this forsaken boardi bet neither of them buy comics though
they should have let Morrison and Johns finish their Batman and Green Lantern runs but it was otherwise a pretty bold decision I respect even if it fucked up a lot of thingsthe biggest fuck ups were mostly how half hearted of a reboot it wastrying to condense 4 robins into 6 years is really REALLY stupid
>>150157508It gave us proto-MAWS Supergirl
>>150157945Miles gets all the white pussy its not fair
>>150157525Man I forgot about that.
>>150157222The New 52 was the only initiative that had any success and got a ton of people into comics. Especially when compared to Afterbirth, Dark Age of Heroes, Shitfinite Frontiter, Yawn of DC and DC Balls In. The New 52 is leagues above all this shit initiatives in terms of story and sales!
>>150158136>and got a ton of people into comicsNot true.
>>150157222Because Bruce Wayne wasn't Batman anymore and DC panicked so they fucked their entire line just to put the cowl back on Bruce.
>>150158318Bruce had been back for like a year or more by then
>>150157222Dan Didio was about to be fired and he rushed out a big mega-reboot to keep his job.In some other timeline Didio was fired, Nu52 never happened, and DC comics had a new golden age that's still ongoing.
>>150157222Because Wonder Woman needed pants, I guess.
It had some alright books in there (I remember liking Animal Man, Demon Knights, and a few others) but statistically it had to, launching 52 fucking new books at once was overall a retarded idea.
>>150158363Yes, but Bruce was Batman in Batman Inc. and Streets of Gotham after his return. While Dick was the main Batman in Batman, Detective Comics, Batman and Robin, Justice League, and Gates of Gotham until the Reboot.
>>150157508I liked it too
>>150158017whats wrong with this? looks hot
>>150159081I agree, it was just too much, especially since this was a grab at the attention of casuals. How many books should it have been?
>>150157222dan didio wanted to do something to generate hype and sales. nobody said no.
>>150158275It did, most didn't stick because they immediately began undoing the New 52 to continuity before destroying it with Afterbirth.
>>150157222Dial H was the only good comic to come about this era.
>>150157222Didio is both retarded and conceited. Like every fucking corpo faggot.
>>150159326If it had to be a total reboot, I guess around 20-30? A bunch of the titles just felt like padding to get to that 52 number
>>150157574>>150158406>>150159366>>150159619I don't know why people blame Didio for this when it was all Jim Lee and Bob Harras.I guess some people are more convenient scapegoats than others.
Brightest Day had set up a line wide refresh. if you read Brightest Day you see that they brought back a lot of heroes from the dead e.g. Aquaman (some cut White Lanterns included Animal Man) and Brightest Day ended with Swamp Thing and Constantine appearing. They were putting Vertigo, Wildstorm into the DC main universe. (Marvel did some line refreshes in the 2010s too.)Didio got the idea to, at the last minute, turn this post Brightest Day refresh into a reboot. But obviously it wasn't a full reboot:>Grant Morrison's Batman continued in Batman Inc, Geoff Johns' Green Lantern series continued, Batwoman etc, all continued.>Other stories were changed and adapted, originally Scott Snyder's Court of Owls was a Dickbats story converted to Bruce Wayne, hence why the story has Lincoln Marsh be very Bruce like and how the Talon was connected to the Flying Graysons circus.>Other stories were just planned already, Johns Aquaman for instance, because Aquaman was brought back in Brightest Day, the aforementioned Swamp Thing too.So really like half the titles almost feel like nothing much had really changed. But then the main titles were rushed out and ended up without decent continuity because of the:>Pretty much every thing happened in the past five years.>No consistency between lines, Wonder Woman's solo series was nothing like her appearances in Justice League.So most of the main books they rushed out happened to be the weaker books. The Forever Evil event was alright, the Rogues title was pretty much Final Crisis Rogues Revenge 2.0, but the stuff with Question, Pandora and that was eh. Books like Green Arrow were awful, they even added some Arrow type stuff into it but the Jeff Lemire stuff was okay. Dial H and stuff like that was different and fun but most of them ended up cancelled. But weirdly a bunch of people are nostalgic for this era because they did get a few mentions in wider media and people liked mainstream blockbuster titles like Snyder's Batman.
>>150159773>I don't know why people blame Didio for this when it was all Jim Lee and Bob Harras.Because a LOT of the New 52 changes seemed to fit stuff that Didio didn't like, characters like Stephanie Brown, Wally West and others vanishing or Babs getting out the wheelchair.
>>150157222It was a good idea to reboot with aged-down heroes, but they should've committed to it by decanonizing vast swaths of The 2000s were defined by DC chasing the Ultimate universe and the New 52 was the pinnacle of that desperation. If you want an Ultimate universe, you need to be willing to start from scratch like it. And now they've swung around to doing the opposite thing, making everything canon. Hypercrisis bros, we won. But there doesn't seem to be any real editorial constraints or vision behind it. Books are constantly relaunched for seemingly no reason and creative teams are now practically encouraged to contradict eachother as they become more online alongside the fanbase. This is built to fail. How long until the next sales collapse? Then what revamp will they pull out their asses? Morrison could've saved you all you fools...
>>150159601I hate Bolland's art when it's digitally colored. It just doesn't work. If the whole book looks like this, remind me to never read it.
>>150159941he just did the coversits good read it faggot
>>150159773Didio always took full credit for it https://www.polygon.com/comics/22679756/dc-comics-reboot-new-52-writers-oral-history/>The origin [of the New 52] comes from a couple of places. First things first: We had a change in management. We had Diane Nelson coming in [as DC’s new president]. And she really wanted to challenge us and really to make an impression and a statement. So we needed to make a statement. That’s part one.>Part two was the market was extraordinarily soft. Our numbers were off by double digits — I want to say 30 to 40 percent, some big number from what it was from the previous year — and trade sales were slowing down, and periodical sales were slowing down. It wasn’t just DC; it was the whole marketplace. >From the moment I started at DC [...] I was always trying to get to that spot where we can sort of restart the wheel and really create this entry point for everybody to jump on, and contemporize our characters.>Marvel had such success with [Miles Morales and the Ultimate line], and I kept on pointing to that. I thought to myself, We needed that. I tried a couple of times — the All-Star line was supposed to be a shot at that, the Earth One books were supposed to be shot at that. They were good as stand-alone concepts, and we got some great work from that, but it didn’t drive a line. And ultimately, the only way it works is if you drive the cohesiveness of the line. We were doing it piecemeal, but to really make an impression, to really catch the attention of the marketplace, you had to do something dramatic. And ultimately, that’s what turned into the New 52.
>>150158017Man I feel so bad for Ron Marz. Imaging headlining Green Lantern to this.
Too many launch titles.
>>150160368Voodoo was fun and he had fun doing it. DC ruined it by firing him and filing off the edges, making evil Voodoo an alien clone of the real heroic Voodoo.
>>150160001guys like shane davis and evs have talked about dan didio and new 52. it was heavily pushed and developed by him in their words and they are quite fond of dan and praise him compared to other people theyve worked with at dc. jim lee was on board for the push and doign designs and potential money for all its use in toys, marketing, movies, etc though. but it was very much didios new 52 from conception.
>>150157222It's an idea a moron would have and it's astonishing that a big company actually tried it.
>>150160501Anon, you haven't been paying attention to le big company ideas for the past two decades.
>>150159941When's the last time he drew interiors?
Is it a plot hole that the faster The Flash moves time dilation would cause his time to be slower compared to everyone else's, causing him to travel into the future whenever he ran super fast?
>>150157525I like Voodoo, is anyone was going to carry the XTREME titles of Wildstorm, Grifter and Voodoo were good choices. Would I have liked Zealot? Bloodstrike? other Image Xmen clones? Yeah. But those were fine except for this shitty writing and setting that doesn't benefit them in DC. They needed a Vertigo spin off
>>150157222because fuck you
>>150160450Gay.
>>150159220Dickbats was the last time Batman was even slightly good.
>>150159399The numbers and analysis from comichron don't support your point. They basically said that N52 grab the attentions of the Marvel/Indie only reader to DC for the launch month and the steadily lose them.
>>150157222Posers Don't know but this is THE FIRST comics continuity where Batman and Superman are actual members of Justice League/Society, not "honorary" cover baits or ONE panel/frame appearance
>>150157945Funny because in New52 in Lobdell run Kara is racist towards clones, she calls Superboy Kon all the time which is the same as the nagger word
>>150157689>how half hearted of a reboot it wasThis is what murdered James Gunn's DCU, one of major things
>>150160450>half the population No wonder this dishonest thing hates Zack Snyder The wicked feared the Truth since the beginning.
>>150156738>copycat thread outlives original threadBut...why?
>>150164921Batman and Superman are both full members in Morrison's run
>>150165169Morrison's run isn't the beginning , therefore never counts. Just like Crisis stories-crossovers of JSA/JLA
>>150165080Same way how Superman is much more popular than Gladiator 1930 and Star Wars is more popular than Superman, Dune, Flash Gordon and Rebel Moon is more popular than Star Wars and Warhammer
>>150158430
>>150157222the biggest problem with The New 52 was that they didn't properly reboot everything, they tried to partially keep around some of the prior continuity around for the Bat and Lantern books and it fucked everything up into an inconsistent mess, if they had properly hard rebooted everything from square one it could have been something great
>>150165638Same "problem" as COIETotal Poserdroid Eradication btw
>>150157508Based. Spbp.
>>150157508True.It's funny how people who started reading comics after COIE always complain about the New 52, even though it was much more consistent and had a unified vision. I personally know a few folks who said they found DC "hard to get into" before New 52, but they all started reading it when it came out and enjoyed it more often than not. It was a great entry point, and if DiDio and the other execs had been more patient and allowed the writers to be more creative, there would have been fewer haters online.
>>150157222because dan didio hate DC Comics
>>150166101New52 was murdered by making Wally West anagramed and Alan Scott fucking gayAlso only SnyderVerse and DCEU derived from its core is really unified Or revert Aquaman Before Silver Age reboot . Can't have it both.Speed Force is also derived from the Why of original Superman lore Super-powers
>>150166101>even though it was much more consistent and had a unified visionIt failed hard specifically because it was neither of those things. They didn't have the balls to do a full reboot so everything ended up being half-measures that nobody could keep track of behind the scenes. They wanted it both ways and got neither, which is why they finally gave up and did Rebirth only five years later.
Crashing the sales charts....with no survivors
>>150157222Why what?
>>150157525>Giving smaller characters comics is bad! Everything should be Batman!
Is Booster Gold now Canadian after his origin reboot in their Justice League International or what? I literally have no idea what's canon anymore due to this stupid fucking stunt.
Every other line was about how everyone was younger and more dangerous. It felt like an old dude living out his midlife crisis in print.
>>150167832it improved sales
>>150168065And other lies we tell ourselves
>>150158318I love that cover so much.
>>150167795From https://www.polygon.com/comics/22679756/dc-comics-reboot-new-52-writers-oral-history/>Daniel Wilson Writer on the New 52 titles Earth 2: World’s End, Earth 2: Society>I had a lot of characters to deal with, so I put together a big spreadsheet. I had basically the whole thing planned out — the major beats of what I wanted to do and how I wanted to separate everything. So I went to New York City, I met [former DC publisher] Paul Levitz, and I sort of just had this immediate reality check where Paul was like, “No, like, that’s not how you do comics, man.” I’m like, “Well, how else are we going to do it? Because there’s so much I need to just lay this out,” and he’s like, “No, no, we’ll just figure it out issue to issue.”> [I said] “I’m really not comfortable doing that, Paul, and I’m the showrunner. So I kind of want to do it this way. Also, I’ve been working on this for months to figure it out.” Paul was like, “‘That’s cool. I wish you luck. I’m out.” It wasn’t emotional or anything. He was just, “That’s really not what I signed up for,” and I totally got it. Later, I was like, “You know what? He was right.” It wasn’t what I expected. I managed to make it work, but definitely, Paul was totally right. Everything evolved on the fly, as you go, and I had to adapt to that.Even though I don't like most of the comics they're doing now, the current approach is the right one. There's just no way to keep things consisten when you're dealing with so many editors and writers over a period of years. Marvel just papers over its flubs.
>>150168065A small bump followed by a hard crash.
>>150168539Ultimate BvS singlehandedly saved DC comics sales
>>150168573Movies have never been a factor, that was just the Rebirth bump followed by stagnation which led to the 5G dead end.
>>150168573true!
>>150168539what happened from 94 to 97?
>>150169240
>>150169240They don't have info for itMarvel decided to buy out Heroes World to have their own books distributed themselves which made it hard to track Marvel for a while till they came back to Diamond around late 1996
>>150157508>the New 52 was goodFUCK no.
>>150157648They probably bought more comics than the New 52 fans
>>150162250Bloodstrike wasn't Wildstorm
>>150159601aquaman and wonder woman where good too
>>150165197What the fuck does that matter? You said "new 52 was the first continuity where Superman and Batman were full members." That's not a true statement. They were full members beginning in Grant Morrison's run, which led into Waid's run.
>>150159220Thats not true, Bruce was back in Tec and B&R before the new 52
>>150158406No, Warner installed Diane Nelson who told them to do it otherwise they were going to shutter DC and license the characters out.
>>150170084Because it's an afterthought. Post-Crisis JL starts with only Batman somewhat around.Someone down the line will always create anything.
>>150170221>a decade long lineup is an afterthoughtYou're a fucking moron.
>>150170376A decade is an afterthought in the world of comic books.
>>150164921Did you even read Silver Age Justice League of America because Superman and Batman were actual members there>>150170221>Post-Crisis JL starts with only Batman somewhat around.He was still a member. Even when the book changed name from Justice League International to Justice League America he showed up from time to time. He was even in Justice League Europe for a short time.Superman was also a member of the Justice League post-JLI all the way to his death from fighting Doomsday
>>150168539Oof
>>150168539Yeah, Rebirth crashed sales and they haven't recovered since.
>>150168501From how this guy describes writing it, it seems like he was dumb expecting Paul Levitz to give him complete control over these characters and that other writers wouldn't also use them. But I guess TV is different that way. But also how did Levitz not figure that out either. The timeline presented by this paragraph seems screwy.I mean certain events and the whole publishing line being planned to some degree is good because that's what led to COIE in the first place because before hand nobody knew their characters anymore from all these details of when certain events happened in their lives and desire for deeper storytelling necessitated concrete details and continuity. How else do these stories happen? I mean I don't need a crisis event everytime somebody forgets that one character is one place at a certain time and then appears somewhere else at that same time but I dunno some planning for events or major continuity happenings is needed.Issue to issue works if writers are willing to talk and say to each other hey, I'm using that character and we can figure out a way to both use them. But the overall plot of a long event needs planning. Otherwise readers have no investment.Marvel papers over its flubs and so does DC. But eventually the shit is gonna seep out from the wallpaper and the whole house is gonna fall apart. Nice hous eof shitty ideas.
>>150171136>From how this guy describes writing it, it seems like he was dumb expecting Paul Levitz to give him complete control over these characters and that other writers wouldn't also use them.It was Earth 2, an alternative universe. There were no other Earth 2 books. But editors follow their own whims, the writer ultimately isn't the one in charge.>I mean certain events and the whole publishing line being planned to some degree is good because that's what led to COIE in the first place because before hand nobody knew their characters anymore from all these details of when certain events happened in their lives and desire for deeper storytelling necessitated concrete details and continuity. COIE happened because DC's sales were incredibly bad compared to Marvel's, that's all. It wasn't confusing continuity that did them in, they just weren't making books a lot of people could get excited about, with the exception of Woflman's Teen Titans which retained most of its continuity with the reboot.
>>150170880I don't think you read the chart right at all
>>150171194Sorry I shouldn't have said that it was the only reason why COIE happened. But it did provide a new massive jumping on point for readers.
>>150171434WRONG
>>150157561All the good New 52 books are ones that easily could have worked without a massive reboot and they were outnumbered by all the shitty and forgettable books.
>>150171194>with the exception of Woflman's Teen TitansLegion was also the best selling book of DC and even continued without hiccups until MoS retcons and never recovered
>>150173382I mean I can understand the sentiment of "We don't need Superboy's existence for this title to do well."
>>150172443>The dip on the chart reflects decline from 2013-2015, in the New 52 (and DCYou) era and not Rebirth>Rebirth era was 2016-2017 which did better than last years of New 52I accept your concession again
>>150173508The problem was that Legion also wasn't rebooted and then those past stories started to clash with the current status quo of Superman.
>>150157222I imagine it was an attempt to soft reboot in an effort to draw in new readers (start here!) and to clean up decades of messy lore.
>>150164953Go away syndercuck
>>150174258They should have just ignored it rather than directly address it, an outcome that apparently left no one happy.
>>150157222I started reading comics because of the New 52, so I'm going to defend it with my life.
>>150157222Because
>>150157508It did MUCH more harm than good. Fuck man, look at the history of Doom Patrol, or try to work out the Blue Beetle continuity.
