>Steve going back in time to be with Peggy created the incursions that killed Doctor Doom’s family. Now Doom is hunting Steve to kill him for what he did, manipulating everyone in his path to achieve it.https://comicbookmovie.com/avengers/avengers-doomsday/rumor-doctor-dooms-mission-in-avengers-doomsday-has-been-revealed-and-its-bad-news-for-spoiler-a223625Thoughts?
>>150160408>Noted archrivals Victor Von Doom and Steve Rogers
>>150160408I think the idea of making movies to fix writing mistakes is just dumb.
>>150160408victor von doomidge
>>150160533B-but didn't you believe Feige when he said Doom was ALWAYS the plan?
>Having so little faith in F4 vs Doom you have to drag Steve into this The MCU is so embarrassing.
>>150160408>Those characters you liked for years before! They're actually the bad ones
>>150160408There comes a point where the heroes are, contextually in the universe, the biggest threat. Like Tony making Ultron. Even the recent Thunderbolts the issue was Fontaine and Oxe making Sentry. Connecting Doom to fucking Steve Rogers of all things completely retcons and shits on what was meant to be a nice moment. It basically makes the heroes YOU DO LIKE into irredemable and selfish monsters.And people DON'T WANT the heroes they like being shit on. >In the She Hulk show she shouts at Hulk and says Hulk doesn't know what it is like being a woman.>In universe Banner once tried to kill himself.>In Ironheart, Riri talked about how rich and privileged Tony was.>She built her suit at MIT, Tony built his suit in a cave whilst kidnapped and was injured.And now we are going to get a film shit on Steve.
>>150160408>you liked Endgame happy enging?>well fuck you, were gonna ruin it in the next movie!
>>150160628They already ruined it in the Loki show when it was revealed that everything that happened in the MCU was by Kang's design.
>>150160408Tony vs Steve again? They wanted Tony vs Steve again- I like Tony vs Steve, but this is just Tony vs Steve again, no need to be coy about it, they’ll fight- Tony pulls off the mask and Steve goes “Tony?” And Tony goes, “No Steve…I am DOOM.” And kills him, Chris Evans is free from the MCU and can go back to making bad chick flicks which was always his bread and butter
>>150160605Keep in mind, this film didn't exist until a year and a half ago. They were probably saving Doom for an FF sequel back when Kang was the main baddie, but it got thrown off the window after the Quantumania-Majors fiasco.So yeah they sacrificed an entire storyline in order to get audiences back.
>>150160606Those white characters*
ah yes, just like the comics. Doom's most hated rival Cap
>>150160408Wow so its a slightly re written Kang plot from the avengers Earth Mightiest Heros cartoon. The irony is hilarious.
>>150160822>Iron Man doesn't get his main rival on the MCU>Hulk doesn't get his main rival on the MCU>FF don't get their main rival in the MCUPlace your bets on who's next
>>150160408Jesus Christ, they had a plot drop in their lap way better>>Every fucking timeline Sam is Cap, he fucks up and causes the end of the world>>Every timeline John Walker is Cap, the world is saved via Walker sacrificing his life>>Doom survived one of the Falcap worlds Sam dooned by switching bodies with Tony and escaping to the X-Men universe to get them to be his personal army to kill Sam so John can martyr himself saving humanity hiding in plain sight to kill Sam and save the day via getting John to die for humanity ala Jesus>>Cliffhanger is John surviving due to Reed doing something to allow John to survive saving the world unscathed, "Tony" being revealed to be Doom hijacking Tony's body, and Doom causing the apocalypse with John being given the Polaris treatment as a Nexus battery for Doom to steal energy from since John heated fate that Doom uses to create House of DoomSequel is X-Men, F,F, and X-Men fighting to free Earth from Doom. John is freed, heroically sacrifices his life to stop Doom and causes reality to reset creating a new MCU with the X-Men and FF involved
>>150160628>you liked Endgame happy enging?No Endgame was shit
>>150160408Fake and gay. How would Steve Rogers of all people be that hard to find?
>>150160615I don't get it. Why don't you look at those moments as intentional inconsistencies, as the characters being ignorant of what actually went on in these other characters' lives?People are shitty. People make assumptions. People make mistakes.The opinion of a teenage dropout who's scamming to make money doesn't change Stark's legacy in the slightest.
>>150160615Sounds like comics
>>150160408>Doom not obsessed with providing his obvious superiority to that accursed RICHARDSNope, don't care.
TOOT
>>150161115The mere casting was already a sign they'd downplay their rivalry at best. completely ignore it at worst. There were hints that Doom comes from the FF's universe so at least there's that.
>>150161064>Why don't you look at those moments as intentional inconsistencies, as the characters being ignorant of what actually went on in these other characters' lives?Because they were not, in any way shape or form, written as an inconsistency in how you're implying.Contextually we are talking about:>The cousin of Hulk, an intelligent woman, who would at minimum know he was a fugitive and hunted and spent many years on the run.and>A hyper intelligent MIT student who has worked with the Wakandans.You assumption that these people wouldn't know, is a dubious defense. But okay, think about this from an audience perspective, how do you get these new heroes to a new audience? How do you get that audience to connect to them? You give them good struggles and you connect them to other heroes. But when they their struggles are bullshit and they shit on other heroes, that does not help.In Ironheart Riri went to MIT and spent time in Wakanda, she is instantly kicked out of MIT to push her back down to contrived underdog status, she shits on Tony Stark, she works for a bunch of bad guys and gets people hurt, she is arrogant and never really learns her lesson.Simply quick Riri rewrite:>Have her selling tech to bad guys.>It explodes in her face, people she knows get hurt.>She decides to be a hero.>Have her respect Iron Man.This would parallel Tony Stark whilst being her own story and have a character arc. Instead we got mad angry girl learns nothing.People watch this shit because they are invested in it so why would they watch stuff that insults the stuff they liked or were invested in? It ironically feels like fucking The Last Jedi, you know those heroes or things you were invested in? Subvert your expectation, let the past die, I'm sure it will end well.
>>150161064>as the characters being ignorant of what actually went on in these other characters' lives?as if anyone in that Earth wouldn't know Tony's story at that point
>>150161064>Why don't you look at those moments as intentional inconsistencies, as the characters being ignorant of what actually went on in these other characters' lives?Watch the scene:https://youtu.be/4-gooo4p9BwDoes this feel like characters being ignorant of what went on? Or does this feel patronising? She is just shitting on a guy who has struggled. Basically it completely undercuts Hulk whole arc too.>if he was a girl who experienced catcalling he could have just controlled himself
>>150160408Incursions are caused by different universes not timelines
>>150160845>shang chi vs the mandarin>falcon vs red hulk/leader>the avengers vs doomthis is so ass
>>150160408The only good thing about this is that hopefully the multiverse fad dies afterwards.
This thing is going to be a clusterfuck, isn't it.
>>150162944Does a mall babe eat Chilli fries?
>>150162803The Ancient One explained that taking a stone out of its intended place caused parallel realities too. Steve returned the stones and spent time with Peggy, we don't know if this happened in the main universe or technically caused a branch or what. The whole thing is dumb but timelines are branching universes too. Incursions are caused by shit like: travel between universes (Dr Strange movie) or the shitty spell in Spider-Man: No Way Home (originally was meant to be America Chavez doing the spell) or the woman in the Marvels using those bands.
>>150160533I think it's funny how the more these movies make boneheaded writing decisions, the more comics-accurate they ultimately become.
>>150160408This feels like it is one draft away from being a Kang story.
I thought now that Verne Troyer's dead RDJ has no stunt double
They really should have just made a normal Avengers movie before trying to one-up Endgame but I guess Age of Ultron mind-broke Feige
>>150161196There's also neither confirmation nor denial that the FF's universe is Earth-1610
>>150160408Great, so not content with making Steve give up the fight, now they're making him a family murderer as well.
>>150160615It's going to be funny when they try to call the normies, especially the women and kids, "stupid manbaby neckbeard virgins" and tell them to "have sex." because they don't like the characters they liked and that are the reason they're even paying attention to this thing being turned into OOC monsters to be poo-poo'd upon while they're replaced by obnoxious and objectively worse characters no one likes or wants to see. Unfortunately, there will be no ignorant masses to appeal to with disingenuous arguments and outright falsehoods this time around.
>>150160803Yeah, it's obvious that's what they're doing. I don't know if it will for sure play out exactly like that, but I do know that's the reason they're doing this. Captain America: Civil War was their BIG MOMENT after Age of Ultron got a lukewarm reception.
>>150160805I'm so glad that happened even if it screws everything up. I saw them really hoping they could just breeze past it and am glad they were forced to abandon the plot.
>>150160845No Magneto. Can't have a jewish villain when everyone's so mad about Israel. >>150162836> Captain Marvel vs Apocalypse.
>>150160408>Thoughts?They have now successfully brought all the worst aspects of capeshit comics into the movies. I'm glad they're fucking dying.
>>150160533It didn't work back when Disney made Rise of the Skywalker either.
>>150160615Or maybe you could grow up instead of complain and moan about people ruining your childhood?
>>150161007Now, THAT would have been kino.Honestly, as soon as Endgame ended they should have lead with Wolverine, Spidey, then introduced the FF to see how people took to them. That would've kept their momentum because they would've still been using classic fan favorite heroes. It would've even easily pivoted into this >>150161007 because they could've thrown in something like a Falcon/Winter Soldier movie and had Thor, the Guardians, Doctor Strange, and/or Scarlet Witch dealing with some multiverse shenanigans that tied in with the X-Men and FF. Or they could have just not done that and had the Mutants be in hiding the whole time because of prejudice and not knowing who/what Thanos was or where to find him and the FF could just have an origin story and get their powers post-Endgame negating the need for any multiverse stuff.They also should have brought Venom into the MCU. People, especially chicks, LOVE Venom.
>>150160605Man I like this artstyle. Any more art in this style? I don't read comics
>>150161064It's how it's portrayed to the audience. If they're going to do that then the audience needs to know we're supposed to disagree with the character, and since they're the MC in each example, show them actually just finding out they were wrong and growing. Or better yet, just don't do it at all since it's a story someone is writing and nothing happens unless they decide it does. No one wants to watch a superhero movie about a crappy, obnoxious, and annoying person who does crappy stuff to people.
>>150162836Why not go for>Spider-Man vs the Mad Thinker>Kamala vs Terrax>Thunderbolts vs Impossible Man>Moon Knight vs Mr Sinister
>>150161353There's also an incredibly infuriating thing going on with this scene which is I've met at least one girl before who's favorite character WAS the Hulk because she came from a broken home and had anger issues and not only could relate to him "Hulking out" and rampaging like he does, but she also liked him because as a girl she COULDN'T do that because of how physically weak she was and also she could appreciate the idea of having a big strong guy around to protect her. They just crap on all that with their obnoxious girl power talking point that no actual woman even relates to unless she's using it to be sassy to some guy she likes, and even then only disingenuously in that moment.Basically, that scene appeals to nobody.
>>150163868Alex Ross, so Kingdom Come, marvels, Justice, and the DC worlds greatest superheroes anthology
>>150163069This is literally ripping off EMH,shame they didn't even ripoff the fact that Kang was a great villain in that show but botched utterly in the MCU
>>150163808Remember when we all joked about that happening one day I can't believe it actually did happen, though.It's going to be really soething to see normies realize what a mess things are and start dragging it to heck and back. Comic writers have gotten away with crapping on the fanbase and using the: "You just want him to be Superman and Jesus!" argument every time their crap is rightfully called out and it unfortunately usually works because they pull the: "Well, I work in the ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY and YOU'RE just some NERD that READS COMICS!!!!" but that's not going to work on normies.
>>150160408Maybe it's time we just go back to having actual normal o action movies now. This kind of shit didn't really happen with John Matrix, Riggs, or McClaine. They just killed bad guys.
>>150160805Honestly, I could kinda believe Fiege wanted Doom to pull an upset on Kang in Secret Wars.
>>150161007So basically the Gatherers by way of One a world Under Doom with Muir Island Saga and Byrne's Wanda plot but with USAgent instead of Wanda/Lorna as the McGuffin?
>>150164780It would be funny given how much you know Marvel seethes at how popular Walker is and how much people hate Falcon after F&WS, if Walker got the Lorna Dane treatment: abused, mind controlled, put into bondage and reduced to a fan service chew toy who always has bad stuff happening to him.
>>150164800Isn't Walker a canon double amputee? Or did they just say "fuck it" and retconned him getting his limbs cut off?
>>150164811No clue He got the Flash Thompson solid symbiote slime replacement limb treatment at the tail end of the original Thunderbolts run but IIRC the Christopher Priest mini showed him with his limbs intact
>>150163962it probably had something to do with putting him in a fucking ant-man movie where all we see is him gloating about his achievements without actually showing us but still expecting the audience to trust them by saying shit like, “oh, he’s really scary. he killed heroes. but we won’t let you see that. just trust me, bro.”
>>150164849Yeah all that is on the mark though I think the first death knell was the casting, they needed either a classic Shakespearian actor or a character actor who is able to command presence. Hell Peter Serfinowicz voiced him in the Lego Marvel 2 game and he would've been perfect to do him in live action even if he was already in the MCU for a bit part.
>>150160408What's the fucking point of calling him Doctor Doom then? He could be anyone, he could even be Kang.
>>150160628Yeah, leaving Bucky behind and going for alt universe Peggy was the natural conclusion to Caps arc. Honestly insane that they thought that anyone find that shit cool. Reads like a fanfic. Cap should deal with his trauma of being out of time and find a new family (Avengers, Bucky, Sam) and find peace in the now. Sharon is his OTP anyways. Only way of salvaging this is if he was raising Ian in the wasteland after having his timeline pruned.
>>150161007We know, anon, we know.You really, REALLY want Wyatt to fuck you.
>>150164980Isn't Lorna supposed to be one of the new X-Men in Doomsdays with Neve Campbell playing her? Why not just Lorna instead as Doom's torture pig?
>>150165231You can't do half the shit done to Lorna in current year let alone in a movie. But you could do it to Walker, especially since the woke crowd would say he had it vomit for being white.
>>150160615>And people DON'T WANT the heroes they like being shit on.THEY'LL WANT WHAT THEIR MASTERS TELL THEM TO WANT.
>>150161052>How would Steve Rogers of all people be that hard to find?Yeah, just look between Peggy's fat British milkers, follow the sound of motorboating, and you'll find him.
>>150165243Yeah but half the audience would wet themselves with lust seeing Walker chained to the wall and getting slapped around by RDJ in full daddy dom mode....
What's the fucking point?At this point it's just all about OCs wearing skins of famous superheroes.At the very least early MCU was trying to adapt stories and characters, this shit is just nonsense that has nothing to do with Marvel comics and feels as authentic as me claiming that I'm related to Queen Elizabeth.
Why are they doing this? Who still cares about Marvel after endgame?
>>150160818Those white male* characters.
>>150165324>here's your "Dom Daddy Doom" bro!
>>150161353I think it's funny she believes she has it rough because she gets catcalled, when banner lived in the literal favelas in Brazil.
>>150160408so he's just gonna ignore the fact that he looks like tony stark? lol
>>150160408I keep telling people that it's extremely obvious what they're going with. It's Victor Von Doom wearing Stark's body as a skinsuit to gain the trust of the Avengers of the main MCU earth and also tarnish Stark's name. RDJ is playing Victor Von Doom technically, but not really.>inb4 whyBecause it's the only way to>write themselves out of the corner they're in now that all their Kang plans have been laid to waste>make the normalfags interested again by both bringing RDJ back and going "there's no twist haha come see RDJ as THE Doom, totes promise"It's pretty simple what the story will end up being.>flashbacks show Doom always masked and RDJ doing a voice and accent>Doom finds out the main MCU earth is the center of all the problems and needs to go there and take control>finds out their Stark's dead and he was the biggest superhero there>has history with Stark in his world too, so he grabs Franklin, has him turn his face to Stark's and heads for the main MCU earth>RDJ is constantly maskless and LARPs as just another Tony Stark variant who wants to "fix everything", but now he's more serious and wears a green Iron Man suit with a cape>unites all the various factions against the other Earths>eventually the "mask" breaks>RDJ-Doom-as-Stark gets ultimate power>cliffhanger is him forming BattleWorld and showing his real, fixed faceAnd then RDJ comes back as a proper Tony Stark in Secret Wars. The Reed/Doom rivalry takes a backseat to a Stark/Doom one. DoomStark will have beef with Rogers so that they can do the scene from Hickman's Avengers where Superior Stark takes down Old Man Rogers. And then they'll have RDJ Stark fight the actual actor for Doom as a meta case of the guy who started the MCU vs the guy who's trying to end it. Pottery or whatever.>inb4 nuh-uhIdiots. RDJ was shaved for years and the moment cameras started rolling he was back to his Stark look. It's a reverse Infamous Iron Man. It's a Mandarin fakeout again.
>>150160434Just like noted rivals Sam Wilson and The Leader
>>150165444The whole thing is a tone deaf bit of writing from people not familiar about the character (Jen is EXTREMELY protective of Bruce due to first hand witnessing his father abuse him and his mom and the fact that her dad was Bruce's mom's sister and held considerable guilt over the fact that he could never get his sister to leave Bruce's dad). Made worse by the fact that Disney explicitly banned ANY references to Bruce being abused as a kid or his dad murdering his mom, because "it's too dark". >>150165824The really shitty thing is that they have a fucking way to explain RDJ as Doom. Doom switched bodies with his universe's version of Iron Man. And would make a lot more sense with Doom running around as Tony until the final act, when he gets outed as having stolen Tony's body from him and only then puts on the Doom armor including mask.
>>150165890>And would make a lot more sense with Doom running around as Tony until the final act,That's what I'm saying too. Honestly, there are enough clues.>Russos announce RDJ as Victor Von Doom and insist he's playing Victor Von Doom to the point where his chair back when they started filming read Victor Von Doom not Dr. Doom>RDJ immediately shaves his head and grows a goatee>Russos say that Stark's death in Endgame is part of the story>RDJ keeps posting comics with Doom Vs. Stark and an issue where Doom's mind literally is in another body>at the chair video RDJ appears looking exactly like StarkCome on, it's obvious. All their Post-EG movies flopped more and more as time went on, so now they're going to do the bare minimum and mention the big characters from this saga while immediately continuing the plot from Endgame. The average moviegoer will only know>oh yeah Cap's now the black guy with wings, and I guess he's got a new guy with him>oh hi Bucky and some other guys>oh yeah, Panther guy's dead and that's his sister with some other guys as her armyand that's it. The rest is just picking up from Endgame. And the basic plot will be something close to this:>flashback scene or something with Doom in his classic getup, with RDJ doing an accent and a voice to deliver some basic exposition about the multiverse dying and the main MCU earth being the root cause>grabs Franklin, has him swap his face to Stark, heads for the MCU>teams bicker, RDJ arrives as Iron Green Doom Man and is all "I'm Tony from another world and I need your help">they all attack the FoX-Men, fights happen, Doom does his machinations in the background>they take the fight to the TVA and God Loki>Kangs aren't mentioned at all beyond some basic exposition from RDJ saying to Loki that he killed such and such and even all the Kangs>his mask drops when he kills Loki and reveals his real face>Strange and Clea appear>cliffhanger is the actual Doom actor revealed and BattleWorld formed
stop talking about this gay shit, like holy fuuuck, it's so cringe
>>150163410They had Secret Invason right there to be the event of Phase 4>Skrulls already introduced>Take advantage of the post-Endgame paranoia and the Avengers' absence>Have this film be the one where Sam gets the mantle and not a fucking tv show>Give Carol a big role and luckily use it to make audiences finally like her>Establish the core characters audiences will follow during the next two phases.
>>150160615But riri isn't wrong and you missed the point by mentioning the box of scraps thing, she's a little piece of shit sure but she isn't wrong
