Live-action capeshit villains are so awful nowadays.Love or hate Burton's Batman, his Joker was great. So was Nolan's Joker. So were pretty much all of Raimi's villains minus Venom.And then something switched and we can barely get a mediocre one. Villains used to be a part of the appeal of capeshit and usually a highlight, now they're one of the worst parts.
>>150168514>Wait until they get a load of sneed.
>blah blah blah only le stuff i grew up with is le good and everything else le sucks shut the fuck up. jack napier sucks and batman 89 sucks. stay on /tv/ because nobody who’s ever read a comic in their life thinks burtonfag 89 is worth a goddamn.
>>150168568>seething this hardLooks like a fanboy of modern capeshit got offended.
>>150168514The less complicated a villain's motivation, the better. Movie thanos is inferior to comic thanos. Comic thanos wants to be all powerful and bang a skeleton lady, how hard is that to understand? Writers and audiences today think a villain has to have some multi level 5th dimensional chess motive with an 18 step +2 plan where they're actually the good guys if you think about it. This is why I think Simon Phoenix and emperor Palpatine are the best villains; just a couple monsters who want to do whatever they want and want the power to do it, and also think being a badguy ia hilarious. You want complicated, make them like a klingons; they do bad stuff to their enemies because they think they're in the right.
>>150168686Motivation is half the problem.Villains nowadays are either written like total losers or entirely non-threatening obstacles to easily overcome rather than actual characters.Majority of MCU villains are completely forgettable and those who aren't are mediocre at best or just plain shit in a special bad way. They're also not at all entertaining.
>>150168514tim burton's joker was good but his batman sucked ass
>>150168514>And then something switched and we can barely get a mediocre oneIt's incredibly simple—Iron Man was a huge success as the kick-off to the MCU, so every single movie that followed copied its formula. Some attempts were better than others, but one thing they always got "right" across the board was copying the fact that Iron Man had a shit villain. Sure, Jeff Bridges did the best with the role he could and arguably made it work within the context of the movie, but it forever carved in stone the idea that the "villain" for your capeshit movie can just be some guy who suddenly becomes a threat in time for the third act. Before we knew it, we had two whole phases of highly successful capeshit movies with absolute shit antagonists, and there was no breaking that status quo.
>>150168799Same with Nolan
>>150168775>Villains nowadays are either written like total losers or entirely non-threatening obstacles to easily overcome rather than actual characters.Because the heroes' actual conflict needs to be with themselves, both external and internal.
>>150168814Amazing how they learned all the worst lessons from Iron Man and still somehow succeeded.
>>150168814>but it forever carved in stone the idea that the "villain" for your capeshit movie can just be some guy who suddenly becomes a threat in time for the third actthis, basically. It worked in Iron Man because RDJ carried the whole movie, and arguably, the real antagonist in Tony's story is his own past, which Obadiah Stane is really just a personification of. But you can't just copypasta the same method into every other superhero movie, although the MCU was clearly stupid enough to try. It just didn't matter because audiences had already adjusted their expectations.I'm 90% sure that had the MCU ever made a legitimately good villain, you'd have diehard fanboys who saw Iron Man when they were 12 crying that it was taking too much focus away from the hero, or some shit like that. The trends justify the means.
Cool.
>>150168514For some reason absolutely no one wants to make an actual villain. They only want their shades of gray morally ambiguous characters that are just misunderstood.
>>150168799Burton understood bat gadgets and bat vehicles following rule of cool and having presence on screen in big event shots. Who cares if they make sense, fuck that. Make it look cool and play up the music while they are on screen.
>>150169891>For some reason absolutely no one wants to make an actual villainThey test poorly with audiences. Most people only care about heroes, and heroes sell the most merchandise. No point in wasting money and screentime on some character nobody is going to buy a funko pop of.
>>150169932This baffles me because you could not go anywhere in 2008 without seeing TDK Joker mechandise.Why So Serious t-shirts, Joker drinking cups, etc etc. A good villain could be pretty profitable.
>>150168514We can’t do those anymore since they are single-handedly responsible for mass shootings, incels and Trump’s presidency.
>>150170363Can you keep your amerilard retardation out of this thread? You already have plenty of threads to whine.
I miss arch enemies being a thing Superhero movies actually tried.Like, seriously, Red Skull met Cap like two times. Baron Zemo barely interacted with him. And let's not even get into The Mandarin and The Leader.
>>150170377Found the euromoor.
>>150170497I'm your master, americuck.Lick my boots quietly.And don't project your brown skin on me, kek.
>>150170089Joker is an obvious exception to the rule. There comes a point where capeshit characters transcend their brand and become icons. I'd argue the only characters who have ever truly achieved this status are Batman, Superman, Joker, Spider-Man, and Iron Man, as of 2008. But even Iron Man is starting to slip back into irrelevance now that the MCU is dying.I guess the closest thing Marvel has to a "transcendent" villain is Venom? If he actually got a truly good movie, they might be able to repeat what TDK did for Joker. But I feel like it needed to happen closer tot he 90s when he was more popular to begin with.
>>150170566Green Goblin and Doc Ock were also prominent in Raimi marketing.
>>150170566I remember the Venom movies getting some decent amount of attention for a non-MCU Marvel thing.Or maybe it was just monsterfuckers.
>>150170527Sorry, can’t hear you over the sound of my money printer going brrrr and sinking your economy even lower.
>>150170657So far the only economy you're sinking is your own, kek
>>150168514Live-action capeshit is awful nowadays.
>>150168568Hi James Gunn
>>150168514I think its really about understanding genre. The villain needs to be tailored to the genre even more than the hero does, and capeflicks already struggle to find any genre identity outside of just 'superhero' these days. Raimi's Spider-Man is also in that pure superhero genre, and Green Goblin works as that genre's best villain because he's all about the power inherent to characters of that genre. The Dark Knight is an crime thriller, and the Joker is the new class of criminal which nearly breaks our heroes and the system they fight for. This is because the directors had clear inspirations they were drawing from (60s comics for Raimi, James Bond and Michael Mann for Nolan), while modern capeshit is usually influenced by market trends more than anything else.Riddler from The Batman (is there any other contender for best capeflick of the decade? Regardless, it too had very clear influences) worked really well as a dark mirror crime noir antagonist, but they had to ruin it with the stupid 9/11 fourth act battle tacked on to the end which totally rapes the genre the movie had been going for.
>>150168514THIS CLOWN NEEDS AN ENEMA!
>>150168568I wasn't even born in the time it was filmed, but Adam West's Batman is still entertaining as fuck to watch today.
>>150168686>Comic thanos wants to be all powerful and bang a skeleton lady, how hard is that to understand?This is too out there for normies. You can't have a villain become a pop culture icon if his motivation is too esoteric for people to understand or relate to.
>>150170566>VenomNo
