>Mom, I want Dick Grayson>You can't get Dick, we have Robin at home.Why does Great Value Robin have so many die-hard fans?
>>150206798Not since they made him into guys
>>150206798Pure Edgehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuiZGuRh858
>>150206798Those people grew up with Tim as their Robin. Those poor bastards.
>>150206853I grew up with Tim Drake as MY Robin.I still recognize that he went to shit over 20 years ago.
>>150206798Why did they get rid of Tim's old costume for this current bullshit? His OG costume was way better.
>>150206886the red and black look is kino though? it's probably the best variation on a robin costume. i agree the modern looks are shit, but this one is kino
>>150206886Red and Black is more uniquely Tim. The Neal Adams design is equally associated with Dick.
>>150206798Because people like dick as nightwing and tim fills the robin role while not stepping on dick's toes at all, fuffiling its primary role of being the watson to batman's sherlock. And you know, he has an origin people like.And come on, every batman character is hugely popular.>>150207286The OYL suit was given to jason and damian too. And tim wore a damian inspired costume in gotham knights.
>Great value robinThat's pre crisis jason.
>>150207326>Because people like dick as nightwing and tim fills the robin role while not stepping on dick's toes at allit's funny how nobody ever seems to want to genuinely do Jason as Robin. like. genuinely, genuinely. he's always just there to eventually become Red Hood. nobody wants to just write or do anything with Jason where he's just Robin and that's all he's intended to be.
>>150207357thisOP is prob a damian fag or some shit. tim was robin for an entire generation and a half of fans. there's nothing great value about him. had the longest running title (and first to begin with)
>>150207087Needs some green thrown in, trust me.
I really don't understand why Tim can't just be Red Robin again.
>>150206798Tim was literally made to be THE Robin, specially after Dick grew up into Nightwing, Tim was meant to be Robin perfected, without all the goofy bullshit Dick was so famous for.This of course, ultimately meant that eventually, Dick, Jason, and Damian would just take elements that Tim introduced to the mantle so they could be better in their roles.Sucks for Tim that he was meant to be THE Robin, but got ultimately replaced, I still don't understand those fans who think Tim should be eternally Robin, even Red Robin would be better.
>>150208662Jason's never taken an element from tim other than his costume, dude's never been robin in any present story since his death.
>>150208675>Jason's never taken an element from Tim other than this thing that he tookAnon....>dude's never been robin in any present story since his death.Where have you been? We've had multiple modern day stories that revisit Jason's time as Robin, Robin and Batman: Jason Todd for example.
>>150206853We got a solid solo and Young Justice, it's a pretty great run. Dick fans have some dusty but fun 50's books and some 70's backup stories along with Titans. Jason fans have a few good Barr and Davis. Damian has the same story over and over, though supersons was fun and Morrison's Batman run is good. All in all I can't say I'd trade Tim in 89-2004 for the others.
>>150208732Yes, tim's also taken damian's hood, its not that big a deal? Its annoying but its common. (See venom).That, really is the one (and robin lives and the dkr prequel). And no external media. And even that just gave him new 52's dick's costume. The only other stuff are flashbacks from him as red hood. And those mostly just make him violent robin, dont really take from tim at all. Titans, i guess, and that one made him into red hood super fast, and also didnt take anything but the costume.
>>150207628Part of the problem is that no one's actually read any of Jason's tenure as Robin. The other problem is that Jason's major pre-Crisis storyline is part of a greater story that wasn't well-received, and heavily involves a Batman/villainess romance starring a d-lister that very few people care about. Which is kind of a shame because Nocturna genuinely loved and wanted the best for Jason and her conflict with Batman played out alongside a custody battle in their civilian identities, which is a completely unique dynamic. And in the 20 years since Jason came back Batman writers have been too busy introducing new version after new version of Nocturna to actually address her and Jason's relationship.
>>150208766>That, really is the one (if you ignore these ones too)Anon...
>>150208662>I still don't understand those fans who think Tim should be eternally Robin, even Red Robin would be better.It's usually accompanied by not wanting their to be a Robin after Tim at all, which is reasonable. The whole concept of making Robin a mantle is so Dick could grow as needed, it didn't mean there needed to be a bunch of new Robins after. Jason was meant to be the solution, ended up not being it, so a more permanent solution was attempted, and went well for a long while.
>>150208840>It's usually accompanied by not wanting their to be a Robin after Tim at allI mean, sometimes yeah, but no matter what, Damian exists, he's been a thing for a while now, he's THE Robin right now, which just leaves Tim as the "Other Robin", or if you want to be mean, the "Gay Robin".
>>150208858>right nowDamian can only ever be Robin because the moment you make him not Robin everyone is going to ask why Batman's son isn't his sidekick. The only way to get around it is to either make Damian a villain or to remove him from superheroics completely.Damian has bratty powerbottom energy.
>>150208891why'd you have to make it weird
>>150208891>make Damian a villainWell, they did try that with 5G.
>>150206835>the signal goes off>he races to the internet, knocking mothers with small children down flights of stairs in his frothing desperation to get to the thread and immediately announce he has no idea what he's talking aboutany fan of Tim is aware he's had problems since around the time Willingham took over his solo book and a bunch of bad decisions unfolded.
>>150208838What im saying is that its not that common lol.>>150208858Damian's not really THE robin either. He's mostly been abscent from the main batman book, and he really doesnt have any actual "batman and robin" stories with batman. He works with dick, not bruce.
>>150208891>The only way to get around it is to either make Damian a villain or to remove him from superheroics completely.He should've stayed dead.
>>150208955this. a villain or villain-adjacent occasional ally like Talia could also work. as Robin he's just a perpetual narrative problem.
>>150208893Because making Damian gay would have been easier due to not having to deal with the baggage of a canonically multiyear long heterosexual relationship that was popular with fans of both Tim and Steph.
>>150208968Damian deos kinda fuck talia and ra's inherently as concepts ngl.
>>150208937Yeah, that's another problem with Damian. He's built from the ground up to play off Dick's personality and doesn't really work when paired with Bruce. Hell, he works better paired with Tim rather than Bruce.
>>150208936He does, but he doesnt even have the most? Jason's by far the one in the worst position consistently.
>>150208987>batman and robin that hate each otherId buy that book.
Tim really needs an identity distinct enough from Robin.
>>150208969which doesn't matter that much since they didn't make him gay and all these characters are still in the normal age range for sexual realizations. you have to go past Jason to get to characters who should reasonably have figured themselves out by then.>>150208988oh, they have no idea what to do with jason either. he's just cursed by them constantly trying to do something instead of putting him on the back burner for a time.
>>150208969They're not gonna make Bruce's kid gay.
>>150209001But tim's also not really been in the backburner since DCYOU. He's the robin in the main batman book rn.While jason's unable to do anything that isnt repeating dick stuff but he kills now.
>>150208937Well, he is definitely more of the main Robin than Tim is right now at least.
>>150206798I hate this fucker.
>>150209016i mean that tim has kind of neutral support or background positions he can occupy in the larger story, but they keep giving jason gimmicks and recycling the morality drama because he's a very notice-me character in universe.
>>150209015But Superman's kid is fair game apparently.>>150209016>tim's also not really been in the backburner since DCYOU. He's the robin in the main batman book rn.Yeah, but that comes after a period of not being really used anywhere at all.
>>150208988It's hard to unfuck Jason due to his entire Punisher-esque deal clashing with the Batman status quo.
>>150209031Unironically yes, Batman is the far more sacred character. They're not gonna try to rock the boat with him too much (or at least not in ways you can't memoryhole easily)
>>150209055It bothers me that Red Hood fans have repeatedly made clear that a Jason who disagrees with Batman's methodology but doesn't go full Punisher is what they want but DC absolutely refuses to give it to them.
>>150209020Not really? Damian's not the robin for the main batman book rn. He's the side book robin. That's as unmain as it goes, sorry.>>150209031Not really? He had tec, young justice, a solo, and the chip run. I like tim, but it does feel tim fans have this POV that he gets used way less than he actually does.>>150209055Not untrue.
>>150209073That's just angrier dick. Or helena, or steph.
>>150209065Damian is a massive narrative tumor because he's rooted entirely in a characterization of Talia that no longer exists and as such massively clashes with her presentation pre-Morrison and for the past several years.
>>150209015Damian is the self-insert of a bald tranny; it makes sense that he'd turn out to be a queer.
>>150209092Nah, it's Katana with a penis.
>>150209092to be fair, a lot of heroes are just 'other hero with different attitude', especially if they don't have a signature power.you could make the argument that more bat-related characters than just jason could be pro more drastic measures taken against criminals and use that to form a sort of counterbalancing association.
>>150206853Teen Titans 03?>>150208746So really the best version of Tim is during the 90s and mid 2000s?
>>150209123Its more so that they keep redoing dick stuff with jason. Donna, Roy, Kory, Babs, and now helena. He's the one who needs those comparisons' he least. Tim and damian get to have more original dynamics.And it'd be a bit too sparce if they do that. Without drastically shifting the cast.
>>150209143Yeah, do love yost's red robin too ngl. Made the best of some weird developments for the character
>>150209143yes, everyone who enjoys the character thinks this. people also liked red robin, but i don't know that i've ever seen someone say it was strictly better than the pre-IC stuff.
>>150209073>>150209123Problem is, any of the Gotham villains worth killing are either too popular to kill or too obscure for anyone to care.
>>150209166i took from anon's comment about not going full punisher that he doesn't need to actually kill every criminal he sees, but maybe he did. i thought of it as just being more overtly violent and maybe doing a bit of killing here and there. i mean, if tim can get away with nuking the league's bases, surely jason can shoot a mook or two.
>>150209162I think tim fans can be neatly split in two halves. The half that prefers tim as a teen hero who is robin out of necesseity and where that's the central angle of conflict (think his solo and yj) and the ones who prefer him as the robin who lives for being robin and who is more obsessive/cerebral (think red robin and johns tt). Red Robin is defintely the best take on that later angle so its popular as that.
>>150209166>>150209178I think with jason you also have too many competing character fanbases that arent compatible.
>>150209179That's reasonable. And of course the origin of both of those takes predates the Stephening, Jack's death and all the shit that came after. Like, people who like mini-Batman enough to write fanfic still use the yj-era lore, not the other shit that surrounded RR outside of the few details needed to make vague canon compliance work.
>>150209178I'm not talking about every criminal, just the real nasty ones.And shooting mooks isn't really impressive. Especially in Gotham which just seems to have infinite thugs.
>>150209220The second thing isnt necessarily mini batman, it can be similar but its not necessarily that, and all the bad stuff that happened to tim does feed that take on some level. Red Robin is defintely where it was at its best, but it was also challenged, and you still had his YJ friendships, dick and steph as important connections that help ground him, or where attempting to at least.
>>150206798Tim's in a bad position because neither DC nor the fans actually want to embrace Tim's role among the Bat-Family which distinguishes him from the other Robins, and it's that Tim is arguably self-destructive/suicidal and a major daredevil. He's a freak. Remember, he's the only Robin who WILLINGLY CHOSE TO BE ROBIN despite coming from a normal and stable ordinary life beforehand. Comparisons and foiling was done between him and The Joker for a good reason. There is genuinely something fucked up about Tim Drake.The Robins kinda need a self-destructive daredevil to round everything out, considering they're all different facets of Batman when you think about it (and by extension, facets of The Shadow). Someone has to be the Houdini in the family.>Dick Grayson: campy, flamboyant, funny and colorful. The performer.>Jason Todd: violent, brutal, pragmatic, and scary. The gunslinger.>Tim Drake: hyper, self-destructive, creepy, (perverse?), and suicidal. The magician.>Damian Wayne: expert prodigy and spoiled and socially retarded/autistic. The ninja.If it were up to me, Tim would be the one willing to do shit like set himself on fire, end up in fights against scores of people or death-defying scenarios where he's chained to a missile while drowning and he's got only ten minutes before a bomb in his head goes off. Some real Joseph Joestar shit.
>>150209156Like what? Cause I’m actually hearing all this potential man/useless character for him and Jason.>>150209162>>150209179>>150209220>>150209251So basically what I’m getting is Red Robin works best for Tim, as he still stays as somewhat Robin but also with great story ignoring the crisis event?
>>150206853>>150206835People who post like this are Damien fags btw
>>150209332It doesn't matter because Tim is now the batman that take dick in the ass. That is permanently his role
>>150206798>Mom, I want Dick Grayson...said no one ever
>>150208858>>150208891Now Tim fans know how we feel. Dick Grayson is Robin. There's no need for a Nightwing.
>>150209073Because that doesn't really exist. What's there to disagree about? This ain't Adam West Batman, the Dark Knight gets into full on beat downs with his villains. The only way you could try to be harder on them is if you permanently injured and/or killed them, which is what going Punisher means. The only other thing you could do would be to have Jason basically just be Batman but mad at him and not wanting to associate with him anymore, and then spin him off into his own city which is not only a hard sell but just makes him Nightwing in Bludhaven (something that's already been done and ultimately didn't work out because he just wound up back in Gotham anyways.)
>>150206798Great solo run, was the one in the cartoons. Timfags were insufferable for a long LOONNNGGGGG time, but even so they didn't deserve what happened. I'm still gonna laugh about it though.
>>150209178>>150209244It still won't work. If Batman has an apprentice go rogue and start killing people, even if it's not very often, he's going to take him out. The only reason Jason has survived as long as he has is because they can just pretend he doesn't exist until he makes a slight appearance then slips back into a state of not existing until the writer wants to drag him out for a quick second and they e gotten away with it for this long because the people who don't think he works get to ignore him 99% of the time and the people who want him are happy he's technically still around. He's like Batman's Ben Reilly.
>>150209332That's just what most people think Jason is so if they embraced it everyone would just ask why Jason isn't doing it.
>>150209658> Cute, half naked girl runs away from home and climbs into your bedSo, what happens next?
