>Inhumans are discount Mutants>Eternals are lore-breaking discount Inhumans>Mutants turned into discount Inhumans>all of them are tied to the CelestialsThere honestly isn't a single reason for Inhumans and Eternals to exist. To be two wholly separate things at that is beyond ridiculous. Mutants going from existing after the Nuclear Age, to retconned to being around forever in some form, to then retconned as being a thing before "humans" is just plain retarded. Inhumans and Eternals should've been one thing, as Inhumans are disgusting with a society that makes no sense. The only thing good about them is that Black Bolt is cool and Medusa's hot. Beyond that there's literally nothing good or interesting about the Inhumans. And the Eternals? Name a stupider idea. It's piss easy to tie them all together with some effort, and it astounds me that nobody did it over the years.>Celestials seed multiple planets, hence a lot of humanoid-esque alien species>they then come back after ages and see a baseline form having emerged>they grab it and hyperevolve it to its physical apex, then leave a small group of such beings with random powers to guard/shepherd each planet>these are the Eternals, and here on Earth they're Boltagon, Medusa, Sersi, Ikaris, etcBasically just grab the coolest characters from both and mash them together. Inhumans is a retarded name that doesn't even warrant use, at least Eternals sounds good. Their names should be a mix of various Antiquity cultures just because; it's still a story, and made up names like M'Klu'Krt are stupid within the context.>they guard the Earth, inspire some stories, etc>actual mythological gods exist on another plane and there's no correlation>some of the Eternals go down and fuck, thus the "X-Gene" is added to the pool>Atlantis (not Attilan) was a test hub they set up for normalfags until they got too uppity and Bolt just REEEEEEEd it to the sea, but they hyper-evolved them to breathe underwaterThere, all fixed.
>>150250075Nothing about capeshit cosmology makes a lick of sense. It's all writers inventing new material for the story they want that's immediately ignored by the next one. Every once in a while you get an autist like Morrison who tries to reconcile it only for it all to get fucked up again.
>>150250075>Inhumans are discount MutantsWrong. OP confirmed for not reading Marvel before the 2010s. Inhumans are a 1960s Jack Kirby secret civilization of superhumans, nothing at all to do with mutants or anything Marvel was doing with mutants.>Eternals are lore-breaking discount InhumansWrong again, they're nothing to do with the Inhumans except in the vaguest sense of both being a race of super-beings. They're "lore-breaking" because they weren't meant to be part of the Marvel Universe at all, but after Kirby left, other writers awkwardly forced them into a continuity in which all the gods of myth were already real, so all anyone really cares about is the Celestials, or Sersi for people who were reading Avengers when she was there.>Mutants turned into discount InhumansOK, fair point. Thanks, Hickman.>all of them are tied to the CelestialsInhumans aren't, they were tied to the Kree.>There honestly isn't a single reason for Inhumans and Eternals to exist.Note OP not making any argument against mutants, despite them being by far the most broken of the three groups by now.>as Inhumans are disgustingOP confirmed for seething X-fag who's going to be reeeing about Inhumans all the way to his deathbed. Further confirmed by wanting to keep a concept as retarded as "the X-gene" in his plan to rewrite everything.
>>150250075Why does the blonde guy look like an All Might variant Donald Trump?
>>150250075The Eternals would be lore-breaking is didn't change their lore multiple times in the last 15 years
>>150250075Aren't Inhumans just low-rent new gods?>>150251098>mutants being the most broken groupAre they? Yeah, sure, you have Phoenix (and Storm with writer bias) and some other dudes, but there's also a lot of useless as fuck mutants.
>>150250075NO, they are just Fantastic Four supporting characters>inb4 that miniseries from 2000 and 2006Yeah, what about those 40 years before.
>>150251291At this point there's dozens of Omega level mutants with OP powers, the mutants need another genocide to get rid of the power creep
>>150251291>Are they?I didn't mean power levels, I meant on a conceptual level entirely.
>>150250075 The X-Men stole Kamala.
>>150251432
>>150250075Eternals are Marvel's version of New Gods (Kirby created them both), Inhumans are the real redundant ones
>>150251098>seething Inhumancel cope
>>150250075The inhumans and eternals existing separately does make sense. The Eternals are a Celestial experiment for reasons, the Inhumans are the Kree trying to make super-slaves also for reasons.Kirby knew about this sort of thing, though I doubt it was an intentional parallel, but it's still essentially two variations of the ancient aliens mythology like how some stories talk about visitations that result in being informed, enhanced and left to prepare or wait for "something", while others talk about being abducted and tortured before an abrupt end.Rationalizing this in the Marvel universe as part of the machinations of existing space races is useful. It especially makes sense for the Eternals to operate mostly independently if the Celestials didn't subject them to a caste system, where the Inhumans codified the oppression they were subject to into the culture.That said the Mutants spinning out of control simply due to popularity is a problem, but it's the nature of on-going work where fans become writers or are able to influence them.
>>150251831YWNBAM
>>150251295They had their own series and a graphic novel in the 80s. I don't like them as supporting characters, they have too much agency of their own. Its not like Reed asks BB to have a word with Doom
>>150250075Wrong. Inhumans were kree experiments, and X-men were they own thing until the celestials retcon.Eternals were forced in, so its on the writers and not the franchise.
>>150250075I would love an Eternal series set in the past where they deal with previous generations of Inhumans. On that topic I don't know why Marvel doesn't just force an Eternal series as their "history" book
>>150251831How ?
>>150252898You can't reason with someone so far gone that it actually thinks mutants are real and they are one.
>>150251291>Aren't Inhumans just low-rent new gods?Not really, they are just trapped in a awkward progression of ideas that Kirby keep developed through his life. Eternals are more apt to the comparation. But in many ways are a even more refined concept.
Hot take, Mutants should've been kept as 'Children of the Atom'.Apocalypse should've been an Eternal.
>>150250075On a scale 1 to 10 not counting stuff like how good names are and all that how accurate is this report? Because I know he got a few basic facts about Inhumans incorrect.
>>150251291I Aaways justified the thing with the fact: Celestials >>> Kree so it's normal that the fruit of their experiments have larger powers.
>>150251312The problem is that the average Inhumans usually are random generic monsters and not humans with powers.
>>150253856In that case, not only Apocalypse need a retcon.For example Sphinx, and enemy of the F4 and Nova was and old mutant too (actually was the egiptian mage Who fight Moses in the bibble)
>>150250075>There honestly isn't a single reason for Inhumans and Eternals to exist.the reason Inhumans exist is because when they were introduced in an FF story in 1965, nobody liked the X-Men and their comics didn't sellfor a very long time the Inhumans were a better version of the concept of people born with superpowersthe Eternals exist as a kind of gardener system for the experiments the Celestials are running; they can't die permanently, they have the ability to combine into a big monster brain, etcmutants are just kind of therethey started out as children of the atom, then they became popular decades later (after decades of relatively normal stories where the heroic X-Men weren't trying to take over the world or turn everybody into mutants against their wills or even outing and kidnapping mutant children from suburbs in their giant military jet, all of which is very abnormal non-heroic behavior)once they became popular two factors come into playfirstly the time at which they became popular coincided with both the Dark Age of comics (grittier stories in which people really die) and the Bro Age of comics (Liefeld and Lee and all their imitators doing bad art fast, comics selling not because of their content but because the market was captured by a speculator bubble which eventually burst)the follow-up to that means that X-Men's defining stories are no longer coming-of-age storylines or civil rights and heroism stories, but screaming at non-mutants that they need to recognize their own inferiority or they gunna die; the kidnappings continued, the massacres multiplied, the school has burnt down and been rebuilt a dozen times since 1993, the top tier team is 100% supervillain mutant supremacists (as the Inhumans once were) and their blind faith in their own superiority and destiny (totally not a cult) coupled with their inability to just fucking die has led them to become a kind of Eternals cosplayers
>>150250075this is my one and only eternal
Is this like the Wikipediaification of fiction? Why does everything need to make perfect sense and be perfectly clean in order for you to believe it? I like the fact that mainline comics continuity is a bizarre mishmash of concepts and themes, where a bunch of bizarre, conflicting and overlapping groups are all existing in the same world. It's weird that you want to fucking sanitize and simplify everything.
>>150256535Agree. Wasn't Stan Lee idea to create mutant because he was just tired to invent backstories to justify super powers?
>>150251831The Inhumans will soon have a space empire while the mutants are currently back living like poor people
>>150250075Every overlap between mutants and Inhumans is something mutants ripped of later down the line but X-fags don't read other shit some they assume mutants did it first.
>>150251295If you actually read any of those stories you would know that most the of the the time the Inhumans subplot was entire separate. Also they had shorts between the 70s and 00. Even beyond the Inhumans along with Black Panther were created to be their own comics buts plans changed at the last moment so they got slotted into F4 for that time being.
>>150250075The Inhumans gimmick were people that people that were experimenting on themselves. The kree made them a little better than regular humans but Terrigen was entirely their creation. They were never the same as mutants even after the celestial retcon. They were Scientist that made themselves more powerful. They had secret science city before wakanda was created. They had alien intervention before the Celestials and the Eternals were created. They don't have anything similar to new gods and even if they did they predate them. When the Inhuman lore was establish X-men were still humans that were mutated by radiation not much different than the hulk. The idea that the Inhumans can be redundant or rip offs of shit that came after them is retarded at best.
>>150256535Yes and it has always been a dumb idea. The entire reason the X-men celestial retcon happened was to needlessly tie shit together that didn't need to be done. I still don't understand how that was suppose to make the Eternal's sudden existence in the 616 more logical.
>>150255553Do any of them really matter?
>>150257367As ancient mutants i remember Genesis, Apocalypse's wife and another bunch of ancient mutants like him all in the same group.
>>150257389Wasn't Apocalypse's wife a recently introduced thing?
>>150257340I don't know well the story but a pre 2015 FF story shoved other species of alien Inhumans always created by Kree and everyone had their version of terrigen mist so I was sure that wasn't and esclusive inventions of the earth's Inhumans.
>>150257399Yes. Her origins should be ancient has his husband.
>>150250075I don’t think Kirby even intended the Eternals to be part of the Marvel Universe, if only because he didn’t care about the concept of the Marvel Universe. He wrote, drew and edited his own book about these new characters and then after he left, the continuity nerds started to come up with reasons for them to cross over. Kirby’s return to Marvel is kind of a poignant story in its way. He finally had the control of his own books but the comics fandom he helped create had turned on him, and there was probably some people on the Marvel staff working against him (not Stan Lee) because they kept printing negative letters about his writing style and lack of interest in continuity, when everyone knows a letter column is supposed to be mostly positive regardless of how much negative mail there is.He had accidentally helped to create an audience that never grew up, when he started the decade hopeful that the younger generation would be better than that (Tomorrow People).
>>150257589> Tomorrow PeopleForever People. Gah. I mix those titles up every time.
>>150257589>I don’t think Kirby even intended the Eternals to be part of the Marvel Universe,They explicitly weren't. Marvel comics exited in Kirby's Eternals. The Hulk they fought was a robot modeled after the comic.
Mutie lovers confirmed for not reading comics
>>150257815Most fans of the big teams/characters don't read comics.
>>150253188They're completely unrelated. New Gods are literally what they're titled, they're the "new" divinity following the gods of mythology just as the Olympians followed the Titans. The Eternals are ancient astronauts/Chariots of the Gods, where mythological figures were actually the members and harbingers of advanced alien species influencing Earth's history and culture. The Inhumans are straight from pulp adventure stories and are the lost, highly advanced civilization from antiquity, for example Shangri La or various Hollow Earth stories (Vril probably has the most influence on the Inhumans).>>150256535No, it's something different. TVTropes maybe, but it boils down to a segment of comic readers and fans who are obsessed with exceptionally insular and internally linked universes where nothing exists alone. The kind of people who would look at a map of the world and say that having a North and South Korea is bad worldbuilding.
>>150258192North and South Korea is good worldbuilding. It shows that different ideologies can exist in the same population.
>>150250075I agree
>>150251247These words are not in the Bible
>>150257430Yeah that was hickman. They all made their own terrigen variant on there own. Hickman just added that the supreme intelligence wanted that so they could fix the Kree's stagnant evolution for them.
When did the fight between Ikarus and Black Bolt in the OP happen?
>>150262995Looking into it the person who posted the original page said it's from a What If... but it's apparently still canon, either way it likely happened off panel.
>>150263558>it's from a What If... but it's apparently still canonWhat the fuck, how often does that even happen?>it likely happened off panel.Was asking because even though Black Bolt is a powerhouse when writers remember that he is, him winning straight hands against Ikarus still doesn't sound right.
>>150263558It was a backup story after the what if story. When Eternals were made 616 canon they a got a bunch back up stories with them interacting in the universe to give them some connection to it.
>>150264843>even though Black Bolt is a powerhouse when writers remember that he is, him winning straight hands against Ikarus still doesn't sound right.Look at Ikaris' face and his pose. Black Bolt punched him in the balls. Probably used his special super punch finishing move and all.
>>150265162>"What's he gonna do? Use the Master Blow to punch me the balls so hard I shit myself?">Ikaris, moments before being punched in the balls so hard he shits himself
>>150250220Morrison went out of his way to turn Talia into a one-note villainess and retconned her into being a batshit insane date rapist and this was, by his own admission, the sole reason Damian exists so he could have conflict and a character arc for Batman and Son. A son whom she easily replaced with a clone and had murder him, mind you.So it's not like Morrison is any better than Bendis when it comes to throwing out previously established characterizations to fit into whatever agenda they have (like Joe Quesada's marching orders to split up the Avengers for Disassembled or getting rid of most Mutants in House of M so he ruined Wanda by making her an Overpowered Hysterical Woman to achieve those ends)So now she's just that crazy bitch who has superpowered meltdowns every once in a while like Sentry in the fandom's collective consciousness.
>>150257123anytime now bro it’s totally gonna happen and last for long
>>150257815>wheredoyouthinkweare.jpg
>>150259041You’re expecting logic and reason from the wrong people
>>150266853maturity is realising every writer is just like Bendis at varying stages of his life, and singling one writer out for ignoring continuity is retarded because virtually everyone (except maybe Mark Waid) does that willingly
>>150255907>the reason Inhumans exist is because when they were introduced in an FF story in 1965, nobody liked the X-Men and their comics didn't sellI read their first few appearances, it was more "thrown in a bunch of different concepts together", blue bolt reboot, Johnny new girlfriend, a bunch of random villains, etc...
>>150251291In the Storm comic, she literally defeated Infinity off screan. I'm joking, she defeated the 5th iteration of the Marvel universe.
>>150265162honestly not far off
>>150267416
>>150267363>I'm joking,I'm not joking*
>>150267363As I said, Storm with writer bias
>>150267363>>150267505>>150267509See, the problem with this kind of writing, like that infamous Zdarsky issue where Batman survived flying from the fucking Moon to Earth with nothing but his batsuit and an oxygen tank and suffering no injuries is that it recontextualizes how every future encounter should go, and how the past encounters don't make sense in light of it. Batman falling from space and acting like nothing happened then getting knocked on the head by Harley's wooden mallet and getting knocked out or all the times in the past where he's been trapped by Penguin and tied to a metal slab while a laser inches towards his junk flies in the face of it.
>>150267726you do what any sane person does and ignore the events where the power level is obviously exaggerated to comical levels and pretend they didn't happen, or happened in a different way
>>150268474Kind of difficult to do when writers keep trying to constantly one-up the wankfest.
>>150255461Wasn't the original idea that only the royal family actually had decent superpowers? Everyone else had fangs, claws, or arms coming out of their heads.
>>150250075>>150251098Half of this is just the fact that Kirby was a huge fan of the idea of a society of superheroes where everyone had powers, wore a weird costume, and used a codename. He did this shit a few times. Then he went over to DC and made up New Gods.
>>150251098Your right of course but In the newer stuff they absolutely did make inhumans into mutants lite
>>150256952I believe that was true
>>150250075Mutants were not really supposed to be a whole civilization with leaders etc. They were supposed to be incredibly rare, and even more rare was a mutant with an actual reliable superpower. Most were freaks or their power was next to useless. Inhumans were just one of those cool scifi fantasy hidden nations the FF discovered on their adventures like the Moloids, and Wakanda. They were not supposed to be comparable to Mutants, just another fantastic place full of fantasy people the FF run into each month. Eternals were another attempt at making gods into just really powerful super advanced people, like they sorta hinted at with the Asgardians. But Kirby was into the whole gods might have been aliens thing.
>>150253856I always thought Mutants should just be a catch-all term for anyone born with powers. Including children of people who acquired powers like any Gamma or cosmic ray person.
>>150253856Apocalypse's whole thing really fits better with Eternals than with mutants.
>>150269693Nope if we are going by the original explanation they had complete control of the outcome and had no problem with looking weird. Kirby flipped between weirdos inhumans and human looking ones all the time. Gorgon and triton are more non human than the Seeker right and Seeker isn't a royal.
>>150269797It'd make a lot more sense especially now since the Eternals have been written to be stewards of the Celestial's creations. It would lend more credence to the Celestials allowing their tech to go under his care, because why would they entrust it to some freaky-looking Egyptian dipshit instead of one of their designated stewards? It'd also lend well into his self-styled and underserved notion of being some kind of authority figure that let the job go straight to his head after the Celestials fucked off.
>>150250075OP is correct. eternals and inhumans suck. making mutants about celestials sucks because it's no longer science fiction if it's some chosen people paternalism bullshit.if the writers and editors want to create some kind of synthesis about rejecting "chosen" status, then they have to make a brutal animated Age of Apocalypse series to hit home on the parable warning against social darwinism
>>150267174It's actually happening in the current space event
>>150250075It breaks my heart to say this but Lee should have told Kirby to his face he wasn't allowed to pitch a single fucking title with more than 5 main characters in it, and if he suggested anything with courtly intrigue he'd shove Jack's hands into a running printing press.
>>150269720Jack however was not a fan of reading books the way Lee was, and constantly tripped over his own dick thinking he knew how to write giant casts of characters. Someone at DC should have told him "we're really happy you left Marvel for us Jack, but honestly, you plot like you draw Superman's face."
>>150258062You really can't blame them because of how most of them don't know that they're suppose to read their favorite characters comics that go back to the late 60s
>>150250220DC has a better cosmology than Marvel's
>>150270966Lol. Lmao. DC has literally no cosmology. Their cosmic side is utterly empty, their aliens are non-existent, there is 0 structure beyond>lmao the Guardians like silenced all the big guns broand New Gods has been mismanaged so much that there's virtually nothing of interest beyond>DARKSEID ISto them. Their magical side outside of Vertigo is a joke too. There's the Lords Of Chaos And Order who appear once in a blue moon and that's literally it. There's nothing else to that whole shebang. DC is a mishmash of separate IPs so there's no coherence. Marvel was built from the ground up to have a unified lore of sorts. Regardless of whether it got out of hand, Marvel at least has a level of cosmology; DC doesn't, period.
>>150251441>Kamala in a short bathrobe
>>150270984>Their cosmic side is utterly emptyWhy is that mean it's bad? I never doubted Marvel has cooler space shit>their aliens are non-existentSo Kryptonians, Martians, Tamarans, and every Lantern Corps members aren't there to you?>there is 0 structure beyondOk, now I know you're just being retarded
>>150270984I'm not even a DC fan but I know you're talking shit, DC has a lot of cosmic lore and is often less ignored than Marvel's
>>150253856it's more than just Apocalypse who needs to be changed desu, and honestly I prefer mutants being Celestial byproducts more than muh "60s nuclear race radiation gave this guy the ability to read others' minds"
