Don't waste your time trying to rehabilitate villains broIt's worthless
>>150264153You didn't read it
>everyone can be rehabilitated
>>150264153Hawkeye?Eddie Brock?Harley Quiin?
>>150264253he's right though that's clearly what the book opines. Couldn't negotiate with Mutant Leader. Couldn't sympathise with Joker. Couldn't fi Harvey's face. Couldn't bury Batman.on the other hand, it also says that people shouldn't try and "fix" themselves of their true nature. Bruce went through therapy and became normal and he hated that soulless life. Batman was self-destructive for him and probably worsened things in Gotham and worldwide but he felt alive for the first time in 10 years and so it was worth it
>>150264153That's part of why it's my favorite Batman comic.
>>150264760He rehabilitates the rest of the mutant gang and takes them under his wing at the end though.there's definitely an opinion that some people can't be fixed, but it's not a hardline rule.
>>150264949Thing is for me, I didn't see this as fixing them, more like he saw he just had to take over to use them for his own means. To them he's just their new Mutant Leader, taking over by force and ruling through force. he couldn't disband them if he wanted, some of them became Jokerz if they didn't have him telling them what to doThey're a force for good now but still untamed like himself and his villains
>>150264949The mutants weren't criminally insane, just anarchic, directionless youth in a shitty environment. Harvey, Joker, the Mutant Leader all criminally insane. The story is about Batman fighting off his own madness to save his city.
Overall DKR's a classic "Spirit of Manliness and Adventure Book", but its emotional core is that Bruce has lost that and has to reclaim it.So there's a lot of themes about the inner self and the Id, and how all the older characters, Joker, Catwoman, Superman, Bruce, tried to suppress it and couldn't. Batman finds by the end it's not an entirely bad thing to embrace your unruly youth again. It almost gets him killed, but he lives all the same.
>>150265038>>150265048this
>>150264153Exactly.
So do we just straight up ignore the sequels to this? I had no idea it had continued for years
>>150264153>shonen baby thinks every villain needs to become a heroic supporting cast member
>>150267135the thing about Miller is he’s very fickle and floppy. He’s a completely different man every 5 years, none of the sequels are even a tiny bit like this is and feel like someone else wrote them, except maybe The Last CrusadeHis Daredevil run from the time reads a lot like DKR
>>150267135DKSA is an underrated very good comic. Not great but very good. Even despite the ugly colorwork which Frank claimed to like (only because it was varley). Master Race is where it veers into fan fic nonsense cause nobody knows, really, how much was azzarello and how much was Frank. It’s mostly accepted Frank only did the barest of plot, maybe as simple as a one sentence premise, and mostly just the back ups.
>>150267171What? Have you read Batman comics? They don't have to become Vegetas, idiot, but Bruce's compassion is one of his core traits. It doesn' even have to be most villains, but NONE in DKR get any better.
>>150267271>h-h-have you read Batman!?Yes, I own more than you’ve even read for free faggot. You sound like the shills hyping up fractions trash.
>>150264153people have to want help dumbass
>>150267295I don't see any arguments there kiddo
>>150267271The thing you don’t realize, or rather that dots you’re intentionally refusing to connect, is that this is not mainline Batman. This is a dark future where everything went wrong. Where the government blackmailed Superman into shutting the rest of the capes down. Where crime one, good men withered, those who were already bad only got more hopeless. time took its toll.It’s about coming to terms with failures, with mortality, and trying to - with time running out - make the best of what’s left, to get up off the mat, and to build whatever future you still can for those to come after. Those failures include many of Bruce’s adversaries. But you’re also VASTLY overstating his compassion. Harvey is a specific case.
>>150267375Crime won*
>>150267375I notice OP disappeared after this.
>>150267375OP's asshole will never recover
I just wanted a discussion...
>>150268646You got it.
>>150267216 I actually liked 3 much more than I was expecting
>>150267216DKSA is already a mistake because it's sequel to a comic that was properly closed out. Then the art looking like shit is an additional insult.
>>150268646Then reply to: >>150267375
>>150264153>>150264760The point wasn't that you shouldn't try, it's that some people just can't just be "fixed". They never actually finished treating Harvey they just "fixed" his face and pronounced him cured. Also there's a clear line drawn between Dents actual mental illness and Jokers pure evil. >Batman was self-destructive for him and probably worsened things in Gotham and worldwide but he felt alive for the first time in 10 years and so it was worth itIs this meant to be bait or what?
>>150264695>>everyone can be rehabilitatedHas that ever happened once in the history of criminal justice?
Everyone who tries to rehabilitate the evil guys for real, tries to show there might be more than the evil psyche is shown as effeninate or hypocrytrical in the comic.
>>150267135>>150267181>>150267216DKSA and Boy Wonder are literal shitposts from the era of post 9/11 insane macho man trauma Frank. Master Race is fine but is very obviously him at his most restrained and feels like a direct apology to some of the insane shit from SA.
>>150269353You'd have to be delusional to think the Joker is fixed.
>>150269290Do you really think Miller Batman would care for that distinction?
>>150270692Absolutely.
>>150264153Do clowns in Gotham have a powerful union or why the fuck do the cops need to call Batman to take care of one?
>>150264749>Eddie Brock?Still a psycho murderer>Harley QuinnStill an evil lesbo slut
>>150271210You don't wanna fuck with the clowns
I always say that it was a different time. In this case, Miller wrote the most vicious version of the Joker and gave him greater significance than he had in the comic books. Since Batman's nemesis wasn't even the Joker, but rather Ra's al Ghul.
>>150264153Shaddap nigga
>>150267135pretending there's no sequel is a good approach, but if you do want to ackowledge it, I'd say it wouldn't be nearly as hated as it is if it wasn't drawn like absolute ass. like there are some very interesting shots and the acid coloring and be cool ina sort of "in your face" way, but it's objectively ugly as sin, even the drawings themselves ignoring the coloring
>>150264153>>150264760He spends the entire 1st and 2nd book rehabilitating a group of teenagers working for a psycho Mr. T mother fucker and trying his hardest to save Harvey. He even goes as far as to say he sees a reflection of himself in HarveyIt's only Joker he's like fuck this but that's because he managed to kill 600 people in the span of a few hours. You get to the black out and he's back to saying no guns no killing.
>>150272472He didn't even kill Joker he just tried to cripple him. Joker had to kill himself.
Miller was mugged twice so he doesn't have much sympathy for criminals.
>>150265038>The mutants weren't criminally insanethey wasted a few guys didn't they?
>>150271413>iller wrote the most vicious version of the Joker and gave him greater significance than he had in the comic books. Since Batman's nemesis wasn't even the Joker, but rather Ra's al Ghul.That's not entirely true, yes R'as was treated as more dangerous and important, but even in his first year of publication Joker is very prominent compared to any villain before.
Cool.
>>150272952They were still criminals.
Some illnesses can't be rehabilated and Batman's villains all have the most extreme version of every illness.
>>150275370exactly, but they were rehabilitated is the point.
>>150272919He's right. Only the privileged sympathize with them.
>>150272494>this againFine, for the last time, Batman killed him and imaged that instead as a way of coping
>>150276987Provide your evidence
>>150277300I wont say its "definitive" but I feel it leans way more towards that than him killing himself. Joker's post-neckbreak speech bubble changing to match Batman's, his speech of "I ruined you, they'll blame you for it" feeling way more as Bruce talking to himself, Batman looking at Jokers dead body and going "stop laughing", which also felt way more obvious in the animated movie
>>150276418The poor also sympathize with criminals, because they’re among them. They’re also the most vitriolic against criminals who aren’t their friends or family
>>150277459He was talking like that because Batman damaged his vocal cords when he twisted his neck. Frank Miller is not some deep ambiguous writer, what's on the page is what he meant.
>>150277623They put up with them unless they're criminals too.
>>150264153I have this version with the Moore intro.
>>150267216DKSA was a character assassination and humiliation ritual for Dick Grayson.
>>150267181>His Daredevil run from the time reads a lot like DKREh.
>>150275413>>150275413Being evil isn't an illness
>>150264749Hawkeye hasn't intentionally a bad guy. He was mistaken for a criminal and then tricked by a beautiful woman.
>>150279752dksa, and all star for that matter, was frank telling his middle aged autismo fanboys to go get laid
>>150264153I'm sick of this whole "debate" anyways. It only exists because of the comic code and Batman killed some people in the earlier issues. It's really not something that needs to be brought up again and again.
>>150282445Batman stopped killing decades before the code and Bill Finger, his co-creator, said he regrets ever having him kill in the first place.
>>150282445>It only exists because of the comic codeThe reply already told you off, but I just want to reemphasize how wrong this is. It's a fake fact perpetuated by pop comic history shortening years of history into a 5 second factoid.
>>150282445even in the era where he was blasting fools with a 45 he was concerned with rehabilitating his bigger villains like Two Face and Catwoman
>>150264760>and probably worsened things in Gotham and worldwideHe was objectively making things so much better that the government wanted Superman to kill him because he made them look bad>>150264999Dumbass the point is that Batman was a better person to follow than the Mutant Leader. He actually wanted to do good and got through to them how to do it properly.TDKSA notwithstanding, Batman was steering people in the right direction to the point that the citizens of Gotham were actively helping each other out of the fires instead of running away because inspired them to do so
>>150270692Nigger did you see Batman try to twist Dents neck?
>>150283940maybe
>>150282032It is.
