What are your thoughts on Spider-Man's shadow rogues? Are they good twists on their original counterparts?
>>150280131Carnage rulesHydro-Man drools
>>150280131Hobgoblin and Carnage rock.Hobby is the Green Goblin without insanity. Unfortunately his big Goblin and the Gangsters arc gets raped by editorial egos, but let's willfully ignore that. Afterwards Jason Macendale, Steve Ditko's last goblin, gets to go fucking crazy wearing his enemy's skin, but it's still not enough. He has to have the demonic power awakened by the X-Men or whatever and then he's FINALLY good enough to be Hobgoblin, but he has lost everything that keeps the Hobgoblin more competent/sane than the Green.He's great in the cartoon too as a super villain merc. Love how he plays everyone against each other in his first two parter, to the point that Norman knows he's being played but has to let it happen because the guy who betrayed him is his best bet, again.Carnage I haven't read yet, but I like how the cartoon made him Shaggy Rogers meets Charles Manson. I wish they went in on that harder. He's Spider-Man's Joker, in that Carnage is nature's perfect predator, the highest evolved killing machine, and it's a human being bonded to an alien symbiote who's only thought is feed more and psych up my host. This is the perfect foil for Venom and Spider-Man, in the right hands. VERY easy to write a boring Carnage, like it's so easy to write a boring Joker.Hydroman is he even a simp in the comics? I just read 315, I should know what his deal is but I can't tell the difference between him and Sandman except Sandman was a good guy at the time.
>>150280131>HobgoblinReally cool villain, design pops more than goblin, and he fills the underworld role that green goblin cant anymore since finding peter's identtiy. Makes for a great foil/antagonist for norman/harry.>hydromanSandman without anything that makes him cool, he's JUST the powerset, no real personality. Or anything to really stand out. If sandman was a good guy maybe he'd have at least a thing.>CarnageVenom without the hypocritical morals, and a great "biggest threat" type character. Also the carnage family are a fun bunch.
>>150281517Sandman is more sympathetic even when he's a bad guy. Hydro-Man enjoys using his powers to commit crimes. Although really he was just made so Sandman could become a good guy.
Does that make Carol Trainer the Dr. Octopus, or does having the same name make her less compared to these guys?
>>150280131Carnage rocks because he's just a vile evil freak intended to be exactly that and no more, to contrast with Venom's character development. Sometimes that's all you need.
>>150280131Hobgoblin's ok, Hydro-Man is lame, Carnage is cool.
>>150281656>If sandman was a good guy maybe he'd have at least a thingHe was, or at least a Sandman redemption/Avengers stories started a little after Hydroman was made, so Hydroman more or less was used to fill the void that Sandman left. The same thing happened once the Punisher got his own book, so Marvel made Solo to take his place in stories that needed Frank but couldn't use him anymore.
>>150280131Weren't they all invented for a specific reason, like not being able to use their counterparts at the time?
>>150280131>GG & HG would be redundantThank you for giving me another reason to not waste my 10th and final spider-man villain slot on this fat.
>>150282211Solo only appeared a handful of times in that respect and Punisher did show in few Spider-Man stories even after getting his own comics, so I wonder how much was just being lazy with making new characters by anti-Terrorist guy being a bootleg Punisher. Even his real name is really lazy, being just JAMES bond + jason BOURNE.
>>150283156Carnage, no, he was created basically to be a villain symbiote because someone upstairs thought the Venom design was too good to not use for a villain, but the writers balked at the idea of killing off the anti-hero Eddie and giving the Venom symbiote a new evil host, undoing all the character development, so they instead created a brand new character to be an evil, unchanging archenemy to contrast Venom's positive growth.
>>150281976She's a legacy villain rather than a shadow/counterpart villain. Macendale would also be a legacy villain.I considered adding Stegron as a counterpart for Lizard but he isn't as prevalent as the above 3.
>>150283747Tbh, yeah, he was created due to that reason, cause they were moving venom to an anti-hero. Eddie wasnt an anti-hero yet, in fact he was actually really villanous up to right before carnage was introduced (and it wasnt character development, since it was off panel lol)
>>150280131Hobgoblin is greatCarnage is great on paper but a lot of his stories aren'tHydro-man fucking sucks
A lot of shade on Hydro-Man here but I think he's better than villains like Hammerhead or Jackal
>>150280131Carnage sucks. He's a one note cheap cash in on venom's popularity and only has one goal or trick that he can't actually even use in the comics he's in
>>150285193I like Hydro-Man more than Sandman
>>150285193That is a very low bar to clear.
>>150285441His powerset is cool at least.
>>150280131Don't forget about Lizard and Iguana.
>>150286490How can I forget S.S.tegron?
>>150286749Old comics had a lot of holocausts.
Has Hydro Man ever had a good story?
>>150288210He's appeared in good stories if that counts such as Deadly and Superior Foes of Spider-man
>>150288210He doesn't have a lot of stories where he's front and center
>>150286749Stegron should have replaced the Lizard so that Connors stayed normal
