I wish to learn more about Cassandra Cain, give me some recommendations and rundowns. I am starting from a knowledge base of zilch.
That's so cool.
>>150288586She's quiet.
>>150288586She's the best Batgirl by a long shot
>>150288586Young Justice season 4
>>150288586I, on the other hand, wish to be her, like a fucking troon
>>150288829Get the fuck out of my thread.
>>150288586Her series up until Shiva Fight is good. After that, you keep watching the series because of Damion Scott, who for some reason is the only person who knows how to draw Cass.
>>150289006You will not besmirch Rick Leonardi’s name here.
>>150289020His cass is okay. Damion's proportions are more realistic though.
>>150289006
>>150289006examples?
CAIN?
>>150288963You are in no position to make demands, or issue orders
>>150288586Don't watch the Birds of Prey movie.
>>150288586Well, the logical starting point is her solo comic. Not the current one, the original one from 2000. This has been collected partially into some TPBs (there's the old set of five books, the new set of two thick books that replaces some of them, and the new-new DC Finest book that retells the Shiva arc in compressed form). Some of it, including entirety of the Horrocks run, is unavailable outside of back issues or simply pirating them.After you've gone through 73 issues of her original solo (and her origin story in No Man's Land), you can start with her current solo comic which pretty much continues directly from her 2006 comic, skipping the 20 years between. This is probably a good move since during those 20 years she appeared rarely and was mostly poorly used.There was an attempt to reboot her as "Orphan" in NU52 that was botched and failed, and before that an incredibly unpopular attempt to turn her into a villain. Avoid those comics. Avoid the shitty BoP movie of course. Some random one-off stories use her okay, my favorite is Justice League Elite miniseries since it's one of the few things outside her own comic that accurately displays her abilities. She guest-stars in some late issues of Red Robin which is fine.
>>150289392Also what's the better way to view comic files these days?
>>150288586
>>150288586Batgirl 1 to 37. Other stuff can be good but that's the essential
New thread, again? Man these are reccurent.>>150289761Would defintely add rebirth tec too to this. It is a little outdated.
>>150289496Read ____online free
>GoodBatgirl 2000Rebirth Detective ComicsBatman and the OutsidersSpirit WorldBatgirl 2024Detective Comics by Ram VBirds of Prey 2024 issues 1 - 6 >MediocreBatgirl 2006BatgirlsEverything after Birds of Prey 2024 issue 7>BadEverything else.Cass has a lot of great appearances and can definitely carry a great story. I really like her current Batgirl run, I like that she's actively gaining new threads on her life as well as losing threads that she's gained while living in Gotham. I know a lot of people do not like the hyperfixation on Shiva and her backstory but honestly I cannot see where the character can go from there if she doesn't engage with the assassin | kung fu shit DC is finally paying attention to now.
>>150290506Why do you say batgirls?
>>150290506She has a lot of other shit outside of that tho. Her solo really didn't focus on it.
>>150290506>Detective Comics by Ram VCass appears in that 50 issue story for like eight pages total and does almost literally nothing (her grand contribution is causing a minor distraction with Mr. Freeze that Freeze could have done alone).
>>150290958She actually has a couple of stories in there, one between her and her mom and one between her, Nightwing and Azrael.>>150290884Batgirls is very much an interim book for a Batman line that seemed pretty aimless for the rest of the cast outside of what Williamson was doing with Batman. It's a little too cute for my liking and a lot of the threads they were setting up from this book -- Maps becoming a partner with Cass for example -- didn't really pan out how it should've.
>>150291022I believe what that anon meant is why would you have Batgirls in anything other than the "bad" pile.
>>150291022>>150291218No was curious as to why it was on the meh
Cassandra Cain Reading Order:>Post Crisis:Batman: No Man's LandBatgirl: Silent KnightBatgirl: To the DeathBruce Wayne: Murderer/FugitiveBatgirl: Point BlankBatgirl by Dylan HorrocksBatman: War GamesRobin/Batgirl: Fresh BloodJustice League EliteBatgirl: Kicking AssassinsBatgirl: Destruction's Daughter>Evil Period:Robin: WantedSupergirl - SpecialTeen Titans: Titans EastRobin - Little White LiesRobin - Paid in FullBatgirl: Redemption>Post Infinite Crisis:Batman and the Outsiders (2007)Battle for the Cowl: The NetworkBatgirl - Point of New OriginRed Robin - Back to FrontBatman Incorporated - NyktomorphRed Robin - The Bigger PictureBatman: Gates of Gotham>Post Rebirth:Batman & Robin EternalBatman: The Rise and Fall of the BatmenBatman and the Outsiders: Lesser GodsBatman and the Outsiders: A League of Their OwnBatman and the Outsiders: The Demon's FireThe Joker War Saga>Post Infinite Frontier:Batman: Fear StateBatgirls: One Way or AnotherBatgirls: Bat Girl Summer
>>150291542It's just not a book that is satisfying for anyone. Cass and Steph are written as young rookies for most of the run. Babs alternates between swooping in and solving the issue for them and being completely absent. There are no cool fights for Cass. Steph is almost a literal retard at times. It has some good issues, like the silent Cass issue.
>>150292556I enjoyed it
>>150293052Ok, why
>>150288586Read Batgirl vol 1. Everything else is hit or miss.
>>150290021all these /co/ reading list images are a decade or more outdated, people usually gloss over that because the 2010s wasn't exactly notable for hallmark comics for most characters
Nudist
>>150290021>>150293535>outdatedIn a sense, yeah, but less than the number of years suggests. Cass had extremely few appearances of any kind during the dark years between Flashpoint and last year, and what little she had was frequently insignificant or outright trash, like how she appeared in DC vs. Vampires just to get disrespected then disappear. Even the rare good bits, like the cute friendship between Clayface and her, are marred by being tied to the dead-end Orphan persona and basically noncanon.
>>150288586Her solo series
>>150293598>On the first of the month we see clearly, to be clothed all the time costs us dearly
>>150288586also can we get some smut?
>>150288586Give it to me STRAIGHT, is her new solo decent?
>>150289598nice cass
>>150290506Nice to see tec both rebirth and the ram one here.And eh, very much disagree, i dont think the martial arts angle is needed at all, nor even that cass particularly is stuck in a gotham "rut", like comparatively she has the most since post horrocks we've never had a solo run of her in gotham, its all been trying to either be in random cities, teams or SHIVA SHIVA SHIVA centric stuff. I think centering the whole book on her as an extension of shiva, for things shiva has actual narrative weight but not her, is a huge mistake, despite the actual characterization being good. Id say there's tons of places cass can go without it, cause its so mined, and has so little actual character meaning for cass (and even as far as dumb cool stuff, it doesnt do much).>>150292016>gabyrch over horrocksThe ending of gabrych's run is one of the worst endings to any comic series ive ever read, in my life.>>150295418Its a decent dc martial arts book starring cass, do you like that?>>150293717She was a regular in rebirth tec, and then outsiders, and then the co-lead in batgirls, and now birds of prey. Idk, cass has a bunch of apperences, especially compared to a lot of other characters.>>150293535Yeah>>150294875Got some new stuff.
>>150295616>Its a decent dc martial arts book starring cass, do you like that?Sounds good. Does she talk?
>>150295663Yes, but she's quiet.
>>150295663Yeah
>>150295418It was a stealth Shiva book until a few issues ago and they are hinting that Cass is going to get magic blood powers. I am not getting anything out of it that I wanted.
The newest nsfw cass commhttps://files.catbox.moe/c0cayc.pnghttps://files.catbox.moe/j824hn.pnghttps://files.catbox.moe/qdshib.png
>>150296143They are actually hinting at the opposite as per the latest issue>I don't want anything to do with this bullshit and I'm putting and end to it
>>150296171Do they always have to have these dumbass porn bodies?
>>150295763Well as long as she's not a chatterbox
>>150296438In what way? I wouldnt say they're that exaggerated, but i do prefer slightly bigger cass. Ive gotten some with a smaller cass, but not really my preference.https://files.catbox.moe/bpolu1.png
>>150296647Also got this wip rnhttps://files.catbox.moe/d1ux06.png
>>150296647>I wouldnt say they're that exaggeratedI don't think she has J cup tits and hips the size of Wyoming
>>150296739Wouldnt say those are j lol. Dunno, it is r34 art. If anything i think latley ive been getting cass smaller than prior,even if end of the day, ill get what i want lol.
>>150296171I like this enough.>>150296647How much Cass nsfw you have?
>>150296462She isnt
>>150288658What?
>>150289598ASS
>>150297080
>>150296798Do more farmgirl Cass
>>150297115Kek
>>150297080CASS
>>150297557Cass ass
>>150288586https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXxd0vk-pjY
>>150295418>Give it to me STRAIGHT, is her new solo decent?It's really frustrating, because it seems to me like the writer is trying pretty hard to make it work, and he might even be trying the right things, but he chose to try them at a very wrong time.What he's doing is he's trying to tie Cass more tightly to the Denny O'Neil kung fu mythos from the 70's/80's, where Shiva comes from. This is kind of a logical thing to do because 1) she already has a built-in connection to that crowd via her mother, and 2) it's a way to give Cass connections that aren't just Bat-family stuff. Allies and enemies that belong purely to her. He's also doing a bunch of continuity cleanup at the same time, Shiva's backstory had a lot of contradicting details and he's kind of putting them together in a way that mostly makes sense. This is all good in theory. In fact I'm half liking it.So what's the problem? The problem is the timing. Cass has been effectively a non-character for EIGHTEEN YEARS. There was a seven year period where she didn't have a single appearance (because Didio banned use of her) and after that she's been reimagined thrice (Eternal, Shadow of Batgirl and that Black Label BoP book, which all can fuck off). She's been in the shitter for so long that people can vote who weren't born when she was cool the last time.Then, miraculously, she gets a solo book again. Once-in-a-generation chance to fix her career. Her new book should have had one goal only: showing people why they need to give a shit about her. Make her look cool. Let her show off her best shit to a new audience. It was so, so important that the book does that. And... it doesn't. It doesn't really do that.Brombal had the idea of making her an underdog for the whole first arc. She spent the first six issues getting dragged from scene to scene against her will and pretty much getting her ass kicked. Then she vanished from her own book entirely for two issues, which were an extended flashback (cont).
I'm enjoying her new series, and her dynamic with Barda in Birds of Prey is charming. Cass stocks are looking good right now, brehs.
So why does DC hate this character so much? Fans seem to love her.
>>150297736(cont)- flashback of Shiva's youth, before Cass's birth. After those she's finally been getting some minor W's. They introduced Tenji whose only job seems to be verbally glazing her (I personally hate this sort of thing, you should show characters being cool instead of having another character say they're cool). But it comes so late. It's been almost a year since her solo book started. The first part was just a slog in the mud, for a character who has already been dragged through shit for nearly two decades.The tragedy is that if this exact same arc, with no changes, was released during a time when Cassandra Cain/Batgirl is secure and well established as a character that has a permanent role in the DC universe, I would likely praise it. Because it's not awful. It's just doing the mostly-right thing at the wrong time.
>>150297885Pretty sure it was mostly the old guard who tried to push her out to bring back Barb because they didn't like legacy characters in general. Look what happened to Wally for more of this shit. Still, she has her own ongoing and is prominent in other titles now, so it seems to be getting better.
>>150297885- Dan Didio was in charge of DC for most of her existence, and Didio always had a pathological hatred of all "sidekick" characters including her.- Several boomers like Jeph Loeb and Jim Lee dislike her simply because she's not Barbara Gordon. "Not muh batgirl" syndome.- Just evil and dumb I guess?
>>150297885>Bweaaaah, not MY Batgirl like in the 1960s show! Only Barbara Gordon can be Batgirl! What do you mean she's in a wheelchair? Get her outta that, we can't have some CRIPPLE. She's Batgirl again, like when I was a kid!
>>150297885Characters thrive based on if they were a creator's favorite when they were a kid. The old guard all grew up jorking it to Babsgirl, but they've mostly moved on and now we're getting creators that grew up with Cass.
>>150288586Character with very little going for her, carried by Helena Bertinelli's bondage/fetish suit, yellow fever, and coomers.
>>150296462>https://files.catbox.moe/bpolu1.pngWhy does she look like Anne Frank?
>>150299100>has to include THREE excuses while also pointedly avoiding talking about her unique characterWeak
>>150299100>bondage fetishHot
>>150299369Everything unique about her was redone less than a decade later with a more important character.Cass is like proto-Damian, with 99% less autism.
Cass's new book has given us one very important thing: absolute confirmation that she wears black lipstick under the mask
>>150300044literally all she has in common with Damian is being young when trained
>>150300044>cass having less autism than literally anyone else
>>150300081>introduce a little murder bot that Batman doesn't really want>have batman's former sidekick take the murder bot under their wing and give them their old legacy>they find a place in the batman family under the legacy identity>batman eventually warms up to the murder bot and becomes a father figure to themfuck off
>>150300195Damian is "what if a spoiled little brat with a penchant for murder became robin"Cass is "what if an extremely depressed feral child became batgirl"
>>150300195>a little murder botThat is way too simplified for both Cassandra and Damian.
>>150300056Nice
>>150300044That's a point against Damian not against cass
>>150300056Very lucha libre
>>150297736I dunno if its the right thing, he does have a good cass voice, but i think the idea is pretty shallow for cass, especially longterm since...the dc martial arts thing is not that intresting.>>150297859BOP's fun>>150297885They dont hate her rn, but it was very much just "she's not barbara" for a bit.>>150297906I think the fact that so many cass stories already revolve around shiva, and its like starting your brand new batman run with a joker arc, and then dragging that out for 15 issues.>>150297957Well not ALL, he liked jason and damian, and jaime.>>150300195Ehh cass isnt really a murderbot, and bruce basically welcomed her instantly (during the david cain encounter). Cass is also not antagonistic towards anyone and more generallly unaware, vs napoelon complex "wants to murder to prove his worth" damian. We also..never saw bruce accept damian, since that happened off panel lol.
She's both cool AND sexy in equal measure, which is a rare occurrence for a woman in comics
>>150302590I know little about Cassandra Cain, I know even less about Stephanie Brown. I think I keep confusing her with the one from The Dark Knight Returns.
>>150302621>I keep confusing a blonde chick with a redheadI'm sorry to hear about your color blindness.
>>150302796I don't even know what Stephanie Brown looks like, dude. I just think of "female sidekick" and think of the female Robin from TDKR.
>>150297906Shiva grew up in the most ancient Chinese part of 1980s China. They didn't even have the CCP.
>>150302942>Beegirl
>>150296798Thanks for sharing your commissions, anon. Pretty cool of you.
>>150296143more like a general streamlining/realignment book for the whole Shiva and Cass side of things
>>150303593Nah, for the first eight issues it really seemed like Shiva was the main character. Shiva was the one making all the decisions and Cass was just getting dragged into them with her. It was not good.
>>150295418yes, decent
>>150297121Funny you say that.>>150296887Thanks! And it says 672 files, but that's counting alts and some fics.>>150303543I will do so as long as i can afford to :)>>150303630Tbh, even now, most of this is just an extension of shiva.
>>150293717>Cass had extremely few appearances of any kind during the dark years between Flashpoint and last yearoh I know but that statement was a general one, not just Cass
>>150303630it still feels that way to an extent desu
>Batgirl>Orphan>Black BatWhat's with the rotating names for these sidekicks? They do it with Robins too
>>150304369DC's inability to maintain a status quo despite simultaneously also trying to not maintain one, it's very paradoxical
>>150304369There's Robin but also Red Robin. That's not confusing.
>>150304369Character takes a different name.
>Die you faggot!I can't believe those were her first words on panel.
>>150297957can't remember a single good thing DiDio did that wasn't chiefly attributed to someone else
>>150289392This is more or less what I needed, thanks
>>150288586Why do people dislike the Orphan era?
Reminder that she is buck naked underneath that bat catsuit
>>150306008it was a cheap attempt
>>150306008I don't think people dislike the stories, but they definitely dislike the Orphan identity.
>>150306592Yeah that's what I'm asking
>>150306008Trying to have your cake and eat it too
>>150306008>>150306733It's just a dead-end identity that pleases no one. It was created because she couldn't be Batgirl, or probably even bat-related because this was the era when nothing could even potentially challenge Babs for the Batgirl mantle. So they created Orphan, a title Cass took from her murderous dad for unclear reasons.
>>150306994yeah it's basically like trying to use the general gist of her Batgirl persona except not as Batgirl, which just reminds you that they erased her (and Stephanie Brown's) entire tenures as Batgirl to return purely to the now ancient days of Barbara as Batgirljust putting her in an offbrand Cassandra Cain Batgirl persona is lame
Personally I liked Red Robin and Black Bat for Tim and Cass.
>>150306119Nice
>>150300056that's just her natural lips
>>150307727Cass is so goth that her lips are naturally black?
>>150306119whoa
>>150307384Same
>>150288586She's hot.
>>150306008Bad costume
Hood rat.
>>150309230Why
>>150303673Nice
>>150302980Queen bee?
>>150309230I commissioned a redraw of this panel, will share when it's done
>>150309701Which artist?
>>150309716https://x.com/encariah1
>>150309808You Cass anon, muscle anon or someone new?
>>150309822Muscle anon, but I'm branching out into less extreme muscles on Cass
Sneak preview
And another comm i just got
>>150309844>I'm branching out into less extreme muscles on Cassgood
>>150309844Nice. buff but not massive Cass is good
>>150302256not really
>>150310572Yes really
>>150310861Wonder Woman, Black Widow, Supergirl, Storm, etc. all are examples of comic book women who are cool AND sexy
>>150306008It's just tied into a pretty fast cheap way to bring Cass back. The complex relationship between her dad and her was gone. The impact of her training and what it did to her leans primarily on the old/previous story. All the background was badly written. her new origin was trash. As a character I think they had some really good ideas about her view of herself and how she interpreted physical movements beyond fighting. I really liked the Clayface relationship. But it's one of those bad first impression things. And they've removed all her scars.
fwiw I liked the Orphan armor she wore, it’s just everything else that’s mediocre and/or a shitty retcon
Perfection
>>150310572She absolutely is.
>>150307384Did this awaken something in Tim and made him gay?
>>150312105remember that time cass wore the babsgirl costume and tim got a boner
>>150312105>>150304625haven't paid much attention to DC in recent years, just looked this up and they really just pulled this completely out of their ass at random like that? one issue and they suddenly go after 30+ years "uh he likes men actually"?
>>150312223Cass was looking so fine in that costume that Tim almost died.
She's cool.
>>150312884>>150312934I do like how Cass is just like "will this guy just SHUT THE FUCK UP" the entire time
Don't do drugs, kids.
>>150312934Keep your eye on the ball, Tim.
>>150312998Does she only communicate in tiny responses?
>>150313059While she is working, Cass should be all business. If she's talking trash, then the fight is already over.
>>150313059She's not the most verbose character
>>150313187me on the left
>>150312945
>>150313977Kek
Did they retcon Cass being scarred up from her upbringing? Just noticed in the recent stories she's popped up in, she doesn't seem to have them anymore.
